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Dune (US) 2021
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william ahearn
Oct 24, 2021, 7:39:12 PM10/24/21
to
Hey,
This isn’t a review. It’s more of an observation and I have no need to get in the whole debate about this film. It looks fabulous. What threw me out of the film – in about 20 minutes – is the costumes and the dialog. When I was a kid and watched outer space-oriented movies from Hollywood, I would wonder why the aliens or people from the future dressed up as ancient Greeks. Same thing on the Star Trek TV show. In this film, they look as if they studied Middle Ages paintings. And that dialog is ridiculous and sounds ridiculous. What is this? Game of Thrones in Space? Tired and played out notions of the future don’t get better when they’re presented beautifully. All you get is a gift-wrapped nothingness.
This isn’t a review. It’s more of an observation and I have no need to get in the whole debate about this film. It looks fabulous. What threw me out of the film – in about 20 minutes – is the costumes and the dialog. When I was a kid and watched outer space-oriented movies from Hollywood, I would wonder why the aliens or people from the future dressed up as ancient Greeks. Same thing on the Star Trek TV show. In this film, they look as if they studied Middle Ages paintings. And that dialog is ridiculous and sounds ridiculous. What is this? Game of Thrones in Space? Tired and played out notions of the future don’t get better when they’re presented beautifully. All you get is a gift-wrapped nothingness.
moviePig
Dec 7, 2021, 4:32:27 PM12/7/21
to
On 10/24/2021 7:39 PM, william ahearn wrote:
> Hey,
>
> This isn’t a review. It’s more of an observation and I have no need to get in the whole debate about this film. It looks fabulous. What threw me out of the film – in about 20 minutes – is the costumes and the dialog. When I was a kid and watched outer space-oriented movies from Hollywood, I would wonder why the aliens or people from the future dressed up as ancient Greeks. Same thing on the Star Trek TV show. In this film, they look as if they studied Middle Ages paintings. And that dialog is ridiculous and sounds ridiculous. What is this? Game of Thrones in Space? Tired and played out notions of the future don’t get better when they’re presented beautifully. All you get is a gift-wrapped nothingness.
Did you read the book?
> Hey,
>
> This isn’t a review. It’s more of an observation and I have no need to get in the whole debate about this film. It looks fabulous. What threw me out of the film – in about 20 minutes – is the costumes and the dialog. When I was a kid and watched outer space-oriented movies from Hollywood, I would wonder why the aliens or people from the future dressed up as ancient Greeks. Same thing on the Star Trek TV show. In this film, they look as if they studied Middle Ages paintings. And that dialog is ridiculous and sounds ridiculous. What is this? Game of Thrones in Space? Tired and played out notions of the future don’t get better when they’re presented beautifully. All you get is a gift-wrapped nothingness.
william ahearn
Dec 8, 2021, 8:30:46 PM12/8/21
to
moviePig
Dec 8, 2021, 10:27:42 PM12/8/21
to
Its empire politics stemmed from the human condition rather than plot
devices. I don't think it could've dispensed with the "ancient Greek"
pageantry and still maintained credible contact with the source
material. Truth be told, I'm hoping the second half will lean even
more into the mythos ...though I may be biased by my recall of the book.
william ahearn
Dec 8, 2021, 11:30:15 PM12/8/21
to
On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 10:27:42 PM UTC-5, pwal...@moviepig.com wrote:
> Unlike GoT, DUNE was written as sci-fi blended with sincere mysticism.
> Its empire politics stemmed from the human condition rather than plot
> devices. I don't think it could've dispensed with the "ancient Greek"
> pageantry and still maintained credible contact with the source
> material. Truth be told, I'm hoping the second half will lean even
> more into the mythos ...though I may be biased by my recall of the book.
The dialog was also ridiculous. Imagining the future by looting the past never pays off. The only person to get it close to right was Anthony Burgess. In the year that Dune takes place in, will contain a language none of us will easily understand.
> Unlike GoT, DUNE was written as sci-fi blended with sincere mysticism.
> Its empire politics stemmed from the human condition rather than plot
> devices. I don't think it could've dispensed with the "ancient Greek"
> pageantry and still maintained credible contact with the source
> material. Truth be told, I'm hoping the second half will lean even
> more into the mythos ...though I may be biased by my recall of the book.
Otto J. Makela
Dec 9, 2021, 4:16:18 AM12/9/21
to
william ahearn <wlah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The dialog was also ridiculous. Imagining the future by looting the
> past never pays off. The only person to get it close to right was
> Anthony Burgess. In the year that Dune takes place in, will contain a
> language none of us will easily understand.
Like with Tolkien (where LotR was ostensibly translated from Westron to
> The dialog was also ridiculous. Imagining the future by looting the
> past never pays off. The only person to get it close to right was
> Anthony Burgess. In the year that Dune takes place in, will contain a
> language none of us will easily understand.
English), most movies follow the convention of using modern English to
represent whatever language the people in the story are "really" speaking.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TranslationConvention
--
/* * * Otto J. Makela <o...@iki.fi> * * * * * * * * * */
/* Phone: +358 40 765 5772, ICBM: N 60 10' E 24 55' */
/* Mail: Mechelininkatu 26 B 27, FI-00100 Helsinki */
/* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * */
Your Name
Dec 9, 2021, 3:11:12 PM12/9/21
to
On 2021-12-09 09:16:15 +0000, Otto J. Makela said:
> william ahearn <wlah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The dialog was also ridiculous. Imagining the future by looting the
>> past never pays off. The only person to get it close to right was
>> Anthony Burgess. In the year that Dune takes place in, will contain a
>> language none of us will easily understand.
>
> Like with Tolkien (where LotR was ostensibly translated from Westron to
> English), most movies follow the convention of using modern English to
> represent whatever language the people in the story are "really" speaking.
>
> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TranslationConvention
Because needing to read subtitles makes watch a movie utterly pointless
> william ahearn <wlah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The dialog was also ridiculous. Imagining the future by looting the
>> past never pays off. The only person to get it close to right was
>> Anthony Burgess. In the year that Dune takes place in, will contain a
>> language none of us will easily understand.
>
> Like with Tolkien (where LotR was ostensibly translated from Westron to
> English), most movies follow the convention of using modern English to
> represent whatever language the people in the story are "really" speaking.
>
> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TranslationConvention
- you're so busy trying to read what is being said that you miss all
the visuals, or you try to watch the visuals and don't have any idea
what they're saying. It's also the reason why the big movies are
usually dubbed in their native language in non-English countries, and a
few non-English movies are dubbed into English.
That's why most people simply don't bother going to things like
"foreign language" film festivals. The people who do go usually
understand the language so can ignore the subtitles. That of course
can't work for movies that have invented languages from other planets
or fantasy worlds.
There are some TV shows and movies that are actually filmed twice so
they can be released in different langauges. For example, a few UK TV
shows are done in both separate Welsh and English speaking versions.
william ahearn
Dec 9, 2021, 5:04:41 PM12/9/21
to
Your Name
Dec 9, 2021, 7:31:14 PM12/9/21
to
above - they simply cannot be bothered with reading lots of subtitles.
william ahearn
Dec 9, 2021, 9:07:42 PM12/9/21
to
Your Name
Dec 9, 2021, 10:15:20 PM12/9/21
to
william ahearn
Dec 9, 2021, 10:35:50 PM12/9/21
to
Ed Stasiak
Dec 10, 2021, 4:14:16 PM12/10/21
to
> Your Name
> There are some TV shows and movies that are actually filmed twice so
> they can be released in different langauges. For example, a few UK TV
> shows are done in both separate Welsh and English speaking versions.
I wish more foreign productions would film English language versions.
English is a defacto global language and releasing English versions
would give the movie/tv show a wider global appeal, as many foreigners
(especially young people nowadays) already understand English and even
if they’re using native language subtitles to help them out, it makes it that
much easier to watch as they won’t have to read _all_ the subtitles.
Over on r.a.tv we hear about this and that foreign tv series being released
by Netflix and such but I never bother with them even though they seem
interesting, as while I might sit thru a two hour foreign movie with subtitles
if it seems like its worth it, (I did for the original “Girl With The Dragon Tattoo”
flicks) I ain’t gonna read subtitles for a 10-hour tv series, let alone multiple
seasons.
But this seem unlikely, as Netflix and such seem to be going out of their
way to promote foreign language tv shows, which I feel only encourages
the Balkanization of humanity and furthers the decline of Western civilization.
(This space reserved for replies calling me a racist asshole
for not learning irrelevant minor languages and/or wading
thru endless subtitles...)
>
> Because needing to read subtitles makes watch a movie utterly pointless
> - you're so busy trying to read what is being said that you miss all
> the visuals, or you try to watch the visuals and don't have any idea
> what they're saying.
Indeed, I hate subtitles .
> Because needing to read subtitles makes watch a movie utterly pointless
> - you're so busy trying to read what is being said that you miss all
> the visuals, or you try to watch the visuals and don't have any idea
> what they're saying.
> There are some TV shows and movies that are actually filmed twice so
> they can be released in different langauges. For example, a few UK TV
> shows are done in both separate Welsh and English speaking versions.
English is a defacto global language and releasing English versions
would give the movie/tv show a wider global appeal, as many foreigners
(especially young people nowadays) already understand English and even
if they’re using native language subtitles to help them out, it makes it that
much easier to watch as they won’t have to read _all_ the subtitles.
Over on r.a.tv we hear about this and that foreign tv series being released
by Netflix and such but I never bother with them even though they seem
interesting, as while I might sit thru a two hour foreign movie with subtitles
if it seems like its worth it, (I did for the original “Girl With The Dragon Tattoo”
flicks) I ain’t gonna read subtitles for a 10-hour tv series, let alone multiple
seasons.
But this seem unlikely, as Netflix and such seem to be going out of their
way to promote foreign language tv shows, which I feel only encourages
the Balkanization of humanity and furthers the decline of Western civilization.
(This space reserved for replies calling me a racist asshole
for not learning irrelevant minor languages and/or wading
thru endless subtitles...)
moviePig
Dec 10, 2021, 4:33:35 PM12/10/21
to
and I scarcely notice them ...maybe because most can be read at barely a
glance. Meanwhile (and unfortunately) I've noticed no appreciable
increase from them in my fluency in other languages, though I always
elect a native soundtrack when there's a choice. And, as for Netflix
promoting foreign stuff, I assume they do it merely to include some good
shows they otherwise couldn't.
> (This space reserved for replies calling me a racist asshole
> for not learning irrelevant minor languages and/or wading
> thru endless subtitles...)
alvey
Dec 10, 2021, 5:17:42 PM12/10/21
to
On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:14:14 -0800 (PST), Ed Stasiak wrote:
>
> But this seem unlikely, as Netflix and such seem to be going out of their
> way to promote foreign language tv shows, which I feel only encourages
> the Balkanization of humanity and furthers the decline of Western civilization.
By "Western civilisation" you mean "American civilisation". And as you're
>
> But this seem unlikely, as Netflix and such seem to be going out of their
> way to promote foreign language tv shows, which I feel only encourages
> the Balkanization of humanity and furthers the decline of Western civilization.
example of that near-oxymoron then the decline is already well under way.
alvey
Sort of wondering why the Balkans have been targeted?
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
william ahearn
Dec 10, 2021, 6:38:58 PM12/10/21
to
On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 4:33:35 PM UTC-5, pwal...@moviepig.com wrote:
> Well, you might get some pushback about 'irrelevant'...
The pushback is about the obvious. If you check out what's happening with language in Wales, Scotland, and Ireland, you'll see a movement for those indigenous peoples trying to regain their language and culture. You see the same thing with the people of the First Nation and the Canadian government. There are numerous other examples. To say that the French should make English language films because you only knew merican is a sort of passive-aggressive imperialism. Or laziness. It's the height of privilege.
> Well, you might get some pushback about 'irrelevant'...
Your Name
Dec 10, 2021, 8:01:02 PM12/10/21
to
depsite the fact that almost none of their customers will be able to
understand all of the shows.
Then there is the "Politically Correct" silliness of "diversity"
whereby they look good by having shows in other languages. Some cases
it's even laws they have to abide by to be able to operate in those
countries (e.g. a certain percentage of local material).
Ed Stasiak
Dec 12, 2021, 11:30:21 AM12/12/21
to
> moviepig
> > Ed Stasiak
as I don’t like turning up the tv too loud and there can be scenes
with the characters whispering.
And British productions pretty much require subtitles, as not
only are difficult to understand regional accents frequently
encountered but the Brits _still_ can’t seem get audio mixing
right and continue to show the characters low talking/mumbling
their lines (and even looking away from the camera!) while at
the same time, irrelevant background noises (footsteps, doors
closing, cars driving by, etc.) are cranked up to 11.
And there will ALWAYS be a scene that suddenly opens in a rave
that blows your ears out with blasting EuroBeats music…
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > I might sit thru a two hour foreign movie with subtitles
> > if it seems like its worth it, I ain’t gonna read subtitles
> > I might sit thru a two hour foreign movie with subtitles
> > for a 10-hour tv series, let alone multiple seasons.
>
>
> Fwiw, I invoke subtitles whenever and for whatever they're
> available, and I scarcely notice them ...maybe because most
> can be read at barely a glance.
I also always turn on subtitles even with American productions,
> available, and I scarcely notice them ...maybe because most
> can be read at barely a glance.
as I don’t like turning up the tv too loud and there can be scenes
with the characters whispering.
And British productions pretty much require subtitles, as not
only are difficult to understand regional accents frequently
encountered but the Brits _still_ can’t seem get audio mixing
right and continue to show the characters low talking/mumbling
their lines (and even looking away from the camera!) while at
the same time, irrelevant background noises (footsteps, doors
closing, cars driving by, etc.) are cranked up to 11.
And there will ALWAYS be a scene that suddenly opens in a rave
that blows your ears out with blasting EuroBeats music…
Ed Stasiak
Dec 12, 2021, 11:31:33 AM12/12/21
to
> alvey
> > Ed Stasiak
> And as you're example of that near-oxymoron then the decline
> is already well under way.
Sure, but why quicken the fall by promoting foreign language
productions? Humanity would be better off speaking the same
language and English is already the defacto global language
and furthermore, is easily adaptable to new words and concepts.
What’s the point of filming a movie in Welsh for example, when
less than 30% of native Welshmen themselves speak the language?
A Chinese or Hispanic viewer is FAR more likely to already
understand English to some extent and will have an easier time
watching and enjoying the production (even with native subtitles
turned on) if it’s also available in English.
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > But this seem unlikely, as Netflix and such seem to be going
> > out of their way to promote foreign language tv shows, which
> > I feel only encourages the Balkanization of humanity and
> > furthers the decline of Western civilization.
>
> By "Western civilisation" you mean "American civilisation".
American specifically but also Western civilization in general.
> > But this seem unlikely, as Netflix and such seem to be going
> > out of their way to promote foreign language tv shows, which
> > I feel only encourages the Balkanization of humanity and
> > furthers the decline of Western civilization.
>
> By "Western civilisation" you mean "American civilisation".
> And as you're example of that near-oxymoron then the decline
> is already well under way.
productions? Humanity would be better off speaking the same
language and English is already the defacto global language
and furthermore, is easily adaptable to new words and concepts.
What’s the point of filming a movie in Welsh for example, when
less than 30% of native Welshmen themselves speak the language?
A Chinese or Hispanic viewer is FAR more likely to already
understand English to some extent and will have an easier time
watching and enjoying the production (even with native subtitles
turned on) if it’s also available in English.
moviePig
Dec 12, 2021, 12:03:43 PM12/12/21
to
practice), I've noticed that (Verizon's) ppv movies feature a soundtrack
that constantly "re-balances" whenever there's dialogue, dimming out any
background noise, music, etc. Since I haven't heard it advertised, I
wonder if it's meant to reduce "unintelligible speech" rebates.
moviePig
Dec 12, 2021, 12:09:26 PM12/12/21
to
On 12/12/2021 11:31 AM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> alvey
>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>
>>> But this seem unlikely, as Netflix and such seem to be going
>>> out of their way to promote foreign language tv shows, which
>>> I feel only encourages the Balkanization of humanity and
>>> furthers the decline of Western civilization.
>>
>> By "Western civilisation" you mean "American civilisation".
>
> American specifically but also Western civilization in general.
>
>> And as you're example of that near-oxymoron then the decline
>> is already well under way.
>
> Sure, but why quicken the fall by promoting foreign language
> productions? Humanity would be better off speaking the same
> language and English is already the defacto global language
> and furthermore, is easily adaptable to new words and concepts.
>
> What’s the point of filming a movie in Welsh for example, when
> less than 30% of native Welshmen themselves speak the language?
>
> A Chinese or Hispanic viewer is FAR more likely to already
> understand English to some extent and will have an easier time
> watching and enjoying the production (even with native subtitles
> turned on) if it’s also available in English.
There's probably an optimal percentage for how much of the world's
>> alvey
>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>
>>> But this seem unlikely, as Netflix and such seem to be going
>>> out of their way to promote foreign language tv shows, which
>>> I feel only encourages the Balkanization of humanity and
>>> furthers the decline of Western civilization.
>>
>> By "Western civilisation" you mean "American civilisation".
>
> American specifically but also Western civilization in general.
>
>> And as you're example of that near-oxymoron then the decline
>> is already well under way.
>
> Sure, but why quicken the fall by promoting foreign language
> productions? Humanity would be better off speaking the same
> language and English is already the defacto global language
> and furthermore, is easily adaptable to new words and concepts.
>
> What’s the point of filming a movie in Welsh for example, when
> less than 30% of native Welshmen themselves speak the language?
>
> A Chinese or Hispanic viewer is FAR more likely to already
> understand English to some extent and will have an easier time
> watching and enjoying the production (even with native subtitles
> turned on) if it’s also available in English.
language should be "non-majority", and it's probably not zero.
Your Name
Dec 12, 2021, 3:18:48 PM12/12/21
to
On 2021-12-12 16:31:32 +0000, Ed Stasiak said:
> alvey
>> Ed Stasiak
>>>
>>> But this seem unlikely, as Netflix and such seem to be going
>>> out of their way to promote foreign language tv shows, which
>>> I feel only encourages the Balkanization of humanity and
>>> furthers the decline of Western civilization.>
>> By "Western civilisation" you mean "American civilisation".
>
> American specifically but also Western civilization in general.
>
>> And as you're example of that near-oxymoron then the decline
>> is already well under way.
> Sure, but why quicken the fall by promoting foreign language
> productions? Humanity would be better off speaking the same
> language and English is already the defacto global language
> and furthermore, is easily adaptable to new words and concepts.
>
> What's the point of filming a movie in Welsh for example, when
> less than 30% of native Welshmen themselves speak the language?
The New Zealand "native people" (in reality they too travelled here
> alvey
>> Ed Stasiak
>>>
>>> But this seem unlikely, as Netflix and such seem to be going
>>> out of their way to promote foreign language tv shows, which
>>> I feel only encourages the Balkanization of humanity and
>>> furthers the decline of Western civilization.>
>> By "Western civilisation" you mean "American civilisation".
>
> American specifically but also Western civilization in general.
>
>> And as you're example of that near-oxymoron then the decline
>> is already well under way.
> Sure, but why quicken the fall by promoting foreign language
> productions? Humanity would be better off speaking the same
> language and English is already the defacto global language
> and furthermore, is easily adaptable to new words and concepts.
>
> What's the point of filming a movie in Welsh for example, when
> less than 30% of native Welshmen themselves speak the language?
from elsewhere) are the Maori. According to government census results
...
In the 2013 Census, 21.3 percent of all Maori reported
that they could hold a conversation in Maori about
everyday things. This was a decrease from 23.7 percent
in 2006 and 25.2 percent in 2001. Of the 148,400 people
(or 3.7 percent of the total New Zealand population)
who could hold a conversation in Maori in 2013,
84.5 percent identified as Maori.
Yet, thanks to the "Politically Correct" morons, we got quota-ticking
stupidity like TV/radio newsreaders inserting random Maori words into
their reports - the news media should be easily understandable by
everyone, not keep using silly words only a few understand. There's
also an idiotic push to have Maori language classes as a compulsory
subject in public schools and have all road information signs in
dual-language (at massive tax-payer cost pointlessly replacing them
all!). The government already wastes huge amounts of money having all
of it's information brochures printed in multiple languages (English,
Maori, Samoan, Mandarin, etc.). Even Disney tries to cash-in with Maori
re-dubbed versions of movies like "Moana".
Hypocritically, the government-owned TVNZ already has a separate news
programe called "Te Karere" which is spoken only in Maori without
English subtitles. There's also an indepenent TV channel called "Maori
TV" that mostly has New Zealand-made shows where Maori is the spoken
language (sometimes with English subtitles, sometimes not) ... but they
also broadcast a lot of overseas-made movies and documentaries which
are in English with no Maori sub-titles.
Ed Stasiak
Dec 13, 2021, 7:38:33 PM12/13/21
to
> moviepig
> > Ed Stasiak
but I’d suggest if you want to compete with the Hollywood behemoth,
the best way is to beat them at their own game by providing English
language productions.
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > A Chinese or Hispanic viewer is FAR more likely to already
> > understand English to some extent and will have an easier time
> > watching and enjoying the production (even with native subtitles
> > turned on) if it’s also available in English.
>
> There's probably an optimal percentage for how much of the world's
> language should be "non-majority", and it's probably not zero.
If the studio and investors want to lose money, that’s fine with me
> > A Chinese or Hispanic viewer is FAR more likely to already
> > understand English to some extent and will have an easier time
> > watching and enjoying the production (even with native subtitles
> > turned on) if it’s also available in English.
>
> There's probably an optimal percentage for how much of the world's
> language should be "non-majority", and it's probably not zero.
but I’d suggest if you want to compete with the Hollywood behemoth,
the best way is to beat them at their own game by providing English
language productions.
william ahearn
Dec 13, 2021, 7:53:33 PM12/13/21
to
Otto J. Makela
Dec 15, 2021, 8:35:59 AM12/15/21
to
Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
> On 2021-12-09 09:16:15 +0000, Otto J. Makela said:
>> Like with Tolkien (where LotR was ostensibly translated from Westron
>> to English), most movies follow the convention of using modern
>> English to represent whatever language the people in the story are
>> "really" speaking.
>> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TranslationConvention
>
> Because needing to read subtitles makes watch a movie utterly
> pointless - you're so busy trying to read what is being said that you
> miss all the visuals, or you try to watch the visuals and don't have
> any idea what they're saying. It's also the reason why the big movies
> are usually dubbed in their native language in non-English countries,
> and a few non-English movies are dubbed into English.
> That's why most people simply don't bother going to things like
> "foreign language" film festivals. The people who do go usually
> understand the language so can ignore the subtitles. That of course
> can't work for movies that have invented languages from other planets
> or fantasy worlds. [...]
> On 2021-12-09 09:16:15 +0000, Otto J. Makela said:
>> Like with Tolkien (where LotR was ostensibly translated from Westron
>> to English), most movies follow the convention of using modern
>> English to represent whatever language the people in the story are
>> "really" speaking.
>> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TranslationConvention
>
> Because needing to read subtitles makes watch a movie utterly
> pointless - you're so busy trying to read what is being said that you
> miss all the visuals, or you try to watch the visuals and don't have
> any idea what they're saying. It's also the reason why the big movies
> are usually dubbed in their native language in non-English countries,
> and a few non-English movies are dubbed into English.
> That's why most people simply don't bother going to things like
> "foreign language" film festivals. The people who do go usually
> understand the language so can ignore the subtitles. That of course
> can't work for movies that have invented languages from other planets
I'm sure you'll admit yourself that your rant against subtitles has
nothing to do with what I wrote about the "translation convention".
Having everyone continually speak an invented language on-screen would
of course make very little sense story-telling-wise.
Being able to comfortably follow the movie while reading subtitles is an
acquired skill, one which countries where it isn't that common (English,
German, French...) often seem to lack. Here in Finland, this is the
default mode (kid's animation and occasionally even live-action movies
get dubbed). We'll not talk about the slavic "single voice-overs".
I personally prefer seeing most English-language movies without
subtitles, but do I switch them on (either English or Finnish) when
characters have strong accents, when the dialog/music mix isn't that
well balanced (often case in TV productions) or when I watch with people
who might benefit from them.
And of course I'd loose so much beautiful cinema and interesting
documentary if I limited myself to only material originally in English.
Kurosawa, Bergman, Fellini,...
Otto J. Makela
Dec 15, 2021, 8:45:33 AM12/15/21
to
moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
> As I think I've mentioned (and I still don't know the extent of this
> practice), I've noticed that (Verizon's) ppv movies feature a
> soundtrack that constantly "re-balances" whenever there's dialogue,
> dimming out any background noise, music, etc. Since I haven't heard it
> advertised, I wonder if it's meant to reduce "unintelligible speech"
> rebates.
This is often caused by too-eager compression of audio levels,
> As I think I've mentioned (and I still don't know the extent of this
> practice), I've noticed that (Verizon's) ppv movies feature a
> soundtrack that constantly "re-balances" whenever there's dialogue,
> dimming out any background noise, music, etc. Since I haven't heard it
> advertised, I wonder if it's meant to reduce "unintelligible speech"
> rebates.
perhaps due to "loudness wars".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
Otto J. Makela
Dec 15, 2021, 9:04:52 AM12/15/21
to
Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>> Because needing to read subtitles makes watch a movie utterly
>>> pointless - you're so busy trying to read what is being said that
>>> you miss all the visuals, or you try to watch the visuals and don't
>>> have any idea what they're saying.
>
>>> Because needing to read subtitles makes watch a movie utterly
>>> pointless - you're so busy trying to read what is being said that
>>> you miss all the visuals, or you try to watch the visuals and don't
>>> have any idea what they're saying.
>
> The vast majority of movie goers and TV watchers fit my desciption
> above - they simply cannot be bothered with reading lots of subtitles.
You apparently have no knowledge of eg. Chinese cinema, do you?
> above - they simply cannot be bothered with reading lots of subtitles.
Besides mandarin and cantonese, China has many mutually-unintelligible
dialects/topolects and there are huge differences between spoken and
written languages. The written version (colloquially "Simplified Chinese")
however is the same all through West Taiwan. Subtitles are also required
by officials to push Mandarin/putonghua hegemony, because it does improve
literacy and to support the hard of hearing.
william ahearn
Dec 15, 2021, 2:57:54 PM12/15/21
to
On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 9:04:52 AM UTC-5, Otto J. Makela wrote:
> You apparently have no knowledge of eg. Chinese cinema, do you?
>
Or that the most recent Best Picture Academy Award went to a film with subtitles. Granted, they were Korean titles but subtitles nonetheless.
> You apparently have no knowledge of eg. Chinese cinema, do you?
>
Your Name
Dec 16, 2021, 2:55:31 PM12/16/21
to
On 2021-12-15 13:35:56 +0000, Otto J. Makela said:
> Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-12-09 09:16:15 +0000, Otto J. Makela said:
>>> Like with Tolkien (where LotR was ostensibly translated from Westron
>>> to English), most movies follow the convention of using modern
>>> English to represent whatever language the people in the story are
>>> "really" speaking.
>>> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TranslationConvention
>>
>> Because needing to read subtitles makes watch a movie utterly
>> pointless - you're so busy trying to read what is being said that you
>> miss all the visuals, or you try to watch the visuals and don't have
>> any idea what they're saying. It's also the reason why the big movies
>> are usually dubbed in their native language in non-English countries,
>> and a few non-English movies are dubbed into English.
>
>> That's why most people simply don't bother going to things like
>> "foreign language" film festivals. The people who do go usually
>> understand the language so can ignore the subtitles. That of course
>> can't work for movies that have invented languages from other planets
>> or fantasy worlds. [...]
>
> I'm sure you'll admit yourself that your rant against subtitles has
> nothing to do with what I wrote about the "translation convention".
> Having everyone continually speak an invented language on-screen would
> of course make very little sense story-telling-wise.
<snip>
> Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-12-09 09:16:15 +0000, Otto J. Makela said:
>>> Like with Tolkien (where LotR was ostensibly translated from Westron
>>> to English), most movies follow the convention of using modern
>>> English to represent whatever language the people in the story are
>>> "really" speaking.
>>> https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TranslationConvention
>>
>> Because needing to read subtitles makes watch a movie utterly
>> pointless - you're so busy trying to read what is being said that you
>> miss all the visuals, or you try to watch the visuals and don't have
>> any idea what they're saying. It's also the reason why the big movies
>> are usually dubbed in their native language in non-English countries,
>> and a few non-English movies are dubbed into English.
>
>> That's why most people simply don't bother going to things like
>> "foreign language" film festivals. The people who do go usually
>> understand the language so can ignore the subtitles. That of course
>> can't work for movies that have invented languages from other planets
>> or fantasy worlds. [...]
>
> I'm sure you'll admit yourself that your rant against subtitles has
> nothing to do with what I wrote about the "translation convention".
> Having everyone continually speak an invented language on-screen would
> of course make very little sense story-telling-wise.
Another braindead idiot with zero reading comprehension ability for my
killfile. :-\
trotsky
Dec 17, 2021, 4:50:10 AM12/17/21
to
On 12/7/2021 3:32 PM, moviePig wrote:
> On 10/24/2021 7:39 PM, william ahearn wrote:
>> Hey,
>>
>> This isn’t a review. It’s more of an observation and I have no need to
>> get in the whole debate about this film. It looks fabulous. What threw
>> me out of the film – in about 20 minutes – is the costumes and the
>> dialog. When I was a kid and watched outer space-oriented movies from
>> Hollywood, I would wonder why the aliens or people from the future
>> dressed up as ancient Greeks. Same thing on the Star Trek TV show. In
>> this film, they look as if they studied Middle Ages paintings. And
>> that dialog is ridiculous and sounds ridiculous. What is this? Game of
>> Thrones in Space? Tired and played out notions of the future don’t get
>> better when they’re presented beautifully. All you get is a
>> gift-wrapped nothingness.
>
> Did you read the book?
It's unclear if willie can read at all. He might be using speech to
text to post here.
> On 10/24/2021 7:39 PM, william ahearn wrote:
>> Hey,
>>
>> This isn’t a review. It’s more of an observation and I have no need to
>> get in the whole debate about this film. It looks fabulous. What threw
>> me out of the film – in about 20 minutes – is the costumes and the
>> dialog. When I was a kid and watched outer space-oriented movies from
>> Hollywood, I would wonder why the aliens or people from the future
>> dressed up as ancient Greeks. Same thing on the Star Trek TV show. In
>> this film, they look as if they studied Middle Ages paintings. And
>> that dialog is ridiculous and sounds ridiculous. What is this? Game of
>> Thrones in Space? Tired and played out notions of the future don’t get
>> better when they’re presented beautifully. All you get is a
>> gift-wrapped nothingness.
>
> Did you read the book?
It's unclear if willie can read at all. He might be using speech to
text to post here.
trotsky
Dec 17, 2021, 4:51:10 AM12/17/21
to
On 12/8/2021 7:30 PM, william ahearn wrote:
Yeah, that tracks. I read the first three, the first one being the best.
> On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 4:32:27 PM UTC-5, pwal...@moviepig.com wrote:
>> On 10/24/2021 7:39 PM, william ahearn wrote:
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> This isn’t a review. It’s more of an observation and I have no need to get in the whole debate about this film. It looks fabulous. What threw me out of the film – in about 20 minutes – is the costumes and the dialog. When I was a kid and watched outer space-oriented movies from Hollywood, I would wonder why the aliens or people from the future dressed up as ancient Greeks. Same thing on the Star Trek TV show. In this film, they look as if they studied Middle Ages paintings. And that dialog is ridiculous and sounds ridiculous. What is this? Game of Thrones in Space? Tired and played out notions of the future don’t get better when they’re presented beautifully. All you get is a gift-wrapped nothingness.
>> Did you read the book?
>
> A long time ago.Not sure if I finished it.
>> On 10/24/2021 7:39 PM, william ahearn wrote:
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> This isn’t a review. It’s more of an observation and I have no need to get in the whole debate about this film. It looks fabulous. What threw me out of the film – in about 20 minutes – is the costumes and the dialog. When I was a kid and watched outer space-oriented movies from Hollywood, I would wonder why the aliens or people from the future dressed up as ancient Greeks. Same thing on the Star Trek TV show. In this film, they look as if they studied Middle Ages paintings. And that dialog is ridiculous and sounds ridiculous. What is this? Game of Thrones in Space? Tired and played out notions of the future don’t get better when they’re presented beautifully. All you get is a gift-wrapped nothingness.
>> Did you read the book?
>
Yeah, that tracks. I read the first three, the first one being the best.
trotsky
Dec 17, 2021, 4:53:06 AM12/17/21
to
On 12/8/2021 10:30 PM, william ahearn wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 10:27:42 PM UTC-5, pwal...@moviepig.com wrote:
>
>> Unlike GoT, DUNE was written as sci-fi blended with sincere mysticism.
>> Its empire politics stemmed from the human condition rather than plot
>> devices. I don't think it could've dispensed with the "ancient Greek"
>> pageantry and still maintained credible contact with the source
>> material. Truth be told, I'm hoping the second half will lean even
>> more into the mythos ...though I may be biased by my recall of the book.
that's a horseshit thing to say.
> On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 10:27:42 PM UTC-5, pwal...@moviepig.com wrote:
>
>> Unlike GoT, DUNE was written as sci-fi blended with sincere mysticism.
>> Its empire politics stemmed from the human condition rather than plot
>> devices. I don't think it could've dispensed with the "ancient Greek"
>> pageantry and still maintained credible contact with the source
>> material. Truth be told, I'm hoping the second half will lean even
>> more into the mythos ...though I may be biased by my recall of the book.
>
> The dialog was also ridiculous. Imagining the future by looting the past never pays off.
There is no substantiation for what time frame the story occurs in, so
> The dialog was also ridiculous. Imagining the future by looting the past never pays off.
that's a horseshit thing to say.
trotsky
Dec 17, 2021, 4:55:43 AM12/17/21
to
trotsky
Dec 17, 2021, 4:59:55 AM12/17/21
to
don't want to miss anything if I'm not sure what was said. It doesn't
take long before they become second nature.
trotsky
Dec 17, 2021, 5:02:24 AM12/17/21
to
other: France makes a couple in Italian and vice versa. It would drive
moviepig nuts.
trotsky
Dec 17, 2021, 5:05:14 AM12/17/21
to
rather have a discussion with an actual kiwi.
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