LOLITA and THE PROFESSIONAL
SANDRAMEND
The theme of a man being seduced into love by a 12 year old is
central to THE PROFESSIONAL, a mentor/child relationship between Jean
Reno and a knockout brilliant debut peformance by Natalie Portman,
(superbly directed by Luc Besson). He's a "cleaner". (hitman) and Gary
Oldman in an over the top performance has cleaned her family, about which
she doesn't care except for her little brother "What did he ever do, he
just wanted to be near me and cuddle," she cries.
I was disturbed at first by the Lolita-like eroticism by Portman. And I
could sympathize with the quandry for Leon, who is no child molester, but
who finds himself loving this extremely erotic, innocent
almost-adolescent.
We have to be very precise and careful in writing laws on statutory rape.
Wasn't it David Kelley's THE PRACTICE that had a segment on a black 16
year old guy who's being prosecuted for knocking up his 14 year old lover?
It turns out he has a responsible, well paying job, is going to be made a
foreman, loves the girl, they've been in love for two years, and are
mature beyond their years. Three lives could have been ruined by
generalized law applied to their case.
Watch THE PROFESSIONAL. It's superb. Director Luc Besson is an artist so
is Reno (MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, LA FEMME NIKITA, and the cop in FRENCH
KISS). And Natalie Portman? She turned down the role of LOLITA, which may
have been a wise choice.
Adrian Lyne is the perfect erotic film director. But the pulpits will
roar out their disapproval, the religious right will do mass mailings, and
even though they're in the minority, Washington is too hypocritical and
Hollywood is too chicken. Only Anne Rice and maybe Camille Paglia and
certainly me will dare speak out. Just hope we don't drown in the
outrage.
Sandra ;-)
This life is a test.
It is only a test.
If it had been an actual life,
you would have received further instructions on where to go and what to do.
Melinda Cheung
From sandr...@aol.com (SANDRAMEND)
|| The theme of a man being seduced into love by a 12 year old is
|| central to THE PROFESSIONAL, a mentor/child relationship
|| I was disturbed at first by the Lolita-like eroticism by
|| Portman. And I could sympathize with the quandry for Leon, who
|| is no child molester, but who finds himself loving this extremely
|| erotic, innocent almost-adolescent.
I disagree that Leon loved Mathilda in any sexual way. Yes, there is a
scene in which Mathilda tells Leon she loves him and how it gives her
funny feeling in her stomach then moves her hand down her body in a
suggestive manner but children often get infatuated with adults who
show them kindness and protection. Something she did not get from her
own family.
Leon loves Mathilda in the way a father loves his daughter. Finally,
here is someone who gives Leon a reason to care. A reason to try to
find a way out of his current existence so they could be together
as a family.
Regards,
-Melinda-
(you can reply directly to melinda...@corp.sun.com)
SANDRAMEND
I could sympathize with the quandry for Leon, who
|| is no child molester, but who finds himself loving this
extremely
|| erotic, innocent almost-adolescent.
>I disagree that Leon loved Mathilda in any sexual way. Yes, there is a
scene in which Mathilda tells Leon she loves him and how it gives her
funny feeling in her stomach then moves her hand down her body in a
suggestive manner
Not what happened in that scene: What she says while laying back on the
bed is that she no longer has a a knot in her stomach, which means the
tension of being in that toxic, dysfunctional environment she had with
that monster family is gone. Leon replies in a detached way that he's
glad the knot is gone, but..... I can't remember the rest of the dialogue.
The quandary for him in dealing with this child in strumpet clothing is
shown when he stops and leans against the wall. He's not being turned on,
but he's having a tough time dealing with her energy. Besson has said
that Leon is the same age as Mathilda, because he closed down emotional at
just about that age. Had he lived, he would have been a father figure to
her. And is there any greater love than his ultimate sacrifice for her.
As to
>children becoming infatuated with adults who
show them kindness and protection. Something she did not get from her
own family.
that is where the danger for an adult can come in. Certainly, it was so
in THE MAN WITHOUT A FACE, this young boy is hungry for love, for
understanding and the adults see something sinister that is not there.
When all the accusations of child molestation started surfacing, I foresaw
that some innocent adults might get caught in the web of appearances, a
form of witchhunting if you will.
Certainly, some adults will be more distant than they might have been.
I never saw the original LOLITA film, nor Tennessee Williams' BABY DOLL. I
have read Anne Rice's BELINDA and her defense of children's sexuality, a
perspective I haven't encountered before.
Fundamentally, I take child molestation very seriously. Certainly, in the
Woody Allen where his child would run away whenever he came to visit.
And I have raised the issue of statutory rape laws in other posts. Rape
is an act of violence and I don't think that the fact a youngster is under
age should make it rape if the youngster was willing and in love. This is
a complex issue.
And THE PROFESSIONAL is a beautiful and ultimately innocent film.
M.A.Yates
In article <19970422012...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>Reno and a knockout brilliant debut peformance by Natalie Portman,
>(superbly directed by Luc Besson). He's a "cleaner". (hitman) and Gary
>Oldman in an over the top performance has cleaned her family, about which
>she doesn't care except for her little brother "What did he ever do, he
>just wanted to be near me and cuddle," she cries.
>
>could sympathize with the quandry for Leon, who is no child molester, but
>who finds himself loving this extremely erotic, innocent
>almost-adolescent.
>
>Wasn't it David Kelley's THE PRACTICE that had a segment on a black 16
>year old guy who's being prosecuted for knocking up his 14 year old lover?
> It turns out he has a responsible, well paying job, is going to be made a
>foreman, loves the girl, they've been in love for two years, and are
>mature beyond their years. Three lives could have been ruined by
>generalized law applied to their case.
>
>Watch THE PROFESSIONAL. It's superb. Director Luc Besson is an artist so
>is Reno (MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, LA FEMME NIKITA, and the cop in FRENCH
>KISS). And Natalie Portman? She turned down the role of LOLITA, which may
>have been a wise choice.
>
It is one of the best films I've seen to - and N. Portman is fantastic, as is
Jean Reno. - with some of the coolest music.
B.T.W. the actress (who was 15 ?) when she did Lolita - is body doubled by a
21 year old for the stronger scenes. The film stars Jeremy Irons. (my dentist
does his teeth. He was telling me how he had short blonde hair 2 years ago
(Die Hard 3).
First showing at Cannes.
>Adrian Lyne is the perfect erotic film director. But the pulpits will
>roar out their disapproval, the religious right will do mass mailings, and
>even though they're in the minority, Washington is too hypocritical and
>Hollywood is too chicken. Only Anne Rice and maybe Camille Paglia and
>certainly me will dare speak out. Just hope we don't drown in the
>outrage.
>
>
>
TBenton933
I was disturbed at first by the Lolita-like eroticism by Portman. And I
could sympathize with the quandry for Leon, who is no child molester, but
who finds himself loving this extremely erotic, innocent
almost-adolescent.
Gosh, did I miss something? All I saw was a vulnerable, lonely, confused
guy and a terrified, vulnerable girl both with something to offer the
other. She offered him reading skills and companionship. He offered her
protection and companionship. That a love existed between the two was
obvious, but I never saw it as erotic love at all. In fact, perhaps that
is why I appreciated the movie so much- that two so different people could
bond so closely and purely when thrown together due to an
unexpected terrible act of chance.
Tom Benton
SANDRAMEND
>Gosh, did I miss something? All I saw was a vulnerable, lonely, confused
guy and a terrified, vulnerable girl both with something to offer the
other. She offered him reading skills and companionship. He offered her
protection and companionship. That a love existed between the two was
obvious, but I never saw it as erotic love at all.
I think you did miss something. I never suggested erotic love on the part
of Leon at all, but Matilda, is a girl on the verge of womanhood, with
romantic fantasies. Her costuming has been described by some critics as
"strumpet gear."
Have you forgotten the part where she tells the hotel manager that Leon is
not her father, he is her lover? Or the scene where she is playing a game
of "guess the movie star" with Leon? Her first two choices are Madonna
and Marilyn Monroe.
This pre-teen is old beyond her years, and as Anne Rice has written about,
there ARE seductive children. Matilda, I think, is one. Yes, she is
terrified and vulnerable, but when her tears dry, she is a young
seductress wobbily trying out her skills.
I remember myself at her age getting a crush on an adult family friend.
Anne Rice also remembers her own early sexuality.
Bottom Line: You can't judge a person's age just by their years.
Anastasia McPherson
I loved the professional - its combination of fable and pathos was
pleasing in some obscure but complete way. Yes, there was love between
the two of them, had they both survived, I think at some point it would
have become erotic. Yes, Matilda was dressed like a child strumpet, and
yes, she was trying out her seductive skills. I think that many girls
her age do and some much more extensively. Remember too that women are
still judged primarily on their sexual appeal; girls learn this early. I
think Matilda is realistic.
SANDRAMEND (sandr...@aol.com) wrote:
: >Gosh, did I miss something? All I saw was a vulnerable, lonely, confused
Ilsa
On 6 May 1997 00:19:54 GMT, tbent...@aol.com (TBenton933) wrote:
> I was disturbed at first by the Lolita-like eroticism by Portman. And I
>could sympathize with the quandry for Leon, who is no child molester, but
>who finds himself loving this extremely erotic, innocent
>almost-adolescent.
>===========================================================
>Gosh, did I miss something? All I saw was a vulnerable, lonely, confused
>guy and a terrified, vulnerable girl both with something to offer the
>other. She offered him reading skills and companionship. He offered her
>protection and companionship. That a love existed between the two was
>obvious, but I never saw it as erotic love at all. In fact, perhaps that
>is why I appreciated the movie so much- that two so different people could
>bond so closely and purely when thrown together due to an
>unexpected terrible act of chance.
>
>
>Tom Benton
I agree, if anything, I thought they were almost like daughter and
father. Portman can be attractive in the way the original poster
mentioned, but in the movie, there wasn't any erotic attraction
between the two. I like the way he was sort of the father that
she should of had but obivously didn't get. For an assasin he was
a surprising clean living guy who can babysit for me anytime.
--Ilsa
Alex Tellez
I just wanted to add little something to this thread about Natalie
Portman (Mathilda in The Professional.) If you think she was a little too
seductive, you haven't seen anything yet! Check out the un-rated
director's cut of The Professional. The extra 26 minutes has to be seen
to be believed.
Alex Tellez
Doug Rosien
Sure...where can I get?
Bryant Frazer
Doug Rosien <Douglas.P...@nd.edu> wrote:
: Sure...where can I get?
Japanese laserdisc, just released. No plans that I know of for a U.S.
rekease.
-bf-
--
DEEP FOCUS (Movie Reviews)
http://www.panix.com/~bfrazer/flicker/
"Why does the doctor only come at night?"
Anastasia McPherson
Are you serious? What about the "Directors Cut " that is sitting in my
local video store? Does that count? What is a laser disc anyway?
Sorry, I am electronically impaired.
Bryant Frazer (bfr...@panix.com) wrote:
Bryant Frazer
Anastasia McPherson <mcph...@mail.med.upenn.edu> wrote:
: Are you serious? What about the "Directors Cut " that is sitting in my
After what were apparently disastrous test screenings in Los Angeles, THE
PROFESSIONAL was trimmed by some 26 minutes in an effort to shore up the
film's commercial prospects. The "version integrale," which includes that
footage, was recently re-released to theaters in Europe, and has just been
issued on video in Japan (which uses the same video system as the U.S.)
and in Europe (which does not). Somebody on the web has created an
electronic petition urging the release of *all* of Luc Besson's films in
the director's preferred versions (THE BIG BLUE was apparently cut pretty
drastically for U.S. release, as well). Try this page:
http://www.halcyon.com/theboss/luc/index.htm .
: What is a laser disc anyway?
Laserdisc is a film buff/videophile format that allows you to buy or rent
(if you're lucky enough to live near a rental outlet) movies on shiny
12-inch discs. Laserdisc movies are far more likely to be letterboxed,
include such "extras" as commentary by the filmmakers on separate audio
tracks, or feature footage excised from a movie's theatrical release than
are movies on videotape. They also provide much higher image quality than
videotape.
A low-end player will set you back about $300, and individual discs run
anywhere from $24.95 up to $39.95 (pretty standard) -- or as much as $125
or $150 for truly "special editions" with commentary tracks, lots of
extras, and sometimes even multiple versions of the same film. Many in the
video business think that the new DVD technology is poised to render
laserdisc obsolete.
The director's cut of THE PROFESSIONAL is a "special edition" that has to
be imported from Japan -- so it's likely to cost upwards of $90. I plan to
buy one as soon as I can get that much money in my bank account at one
time (scowl).
Kathryn Hodghead
Bryant Frazer wrote:
>
> Anastasia McPherson <mcph...@mail.med.upenn.edu> wrote:
> : Are you serious? What about the "Directors Cut " that is sitting in my
> : local video store? Does that count?
>
> After what were apparently disastrous test screenings in Los Angeles, THE
> PROFESSIONAL was trimmed by some 26 minutes in an effort to shore up the
> film's commercial prospects. The "version integrale," which includes that
> footage, was recently re-released to theaters in Europe, and has just been
> issued on video in Japan (which uses the same video system as the U.S.)
> and in Europe (which does not). Somebody on the web has created an
> electronic petition urging the release of *all* of Luc Besson's films in
> the director's preferred versions (THE BIG BLUE was apparently cut pretty
> drastically for U.S. release, as well). Try this page:
> http://www.halcyon.com/theboss/luc/index.htm .
>
I would be VERY interested in seeing the director's cut of The Big Blue.
What are the differences between the two versions? Is there any chance of
finding a copy of this in NTSC format?
Thanks,
Kat
Jacques Molitor
In the director's cut of the film, there ARE a few scenes where Matilda
quite obviously and clearly states that she wants to sleep with Leon,
but he refuses.Later, they lie in bed together, but no sex has taken
place, I guess.
anna.franc...@gmail.com
> The theme of a man being seduced into love by a 12 year old is
> central to THE PROFESSIONAL, a mentor/child relationship between Jean
> Reno and a knockout brilliant debut peformance by Natalie Portman,
> (superbly directed by Luc Besson). He's a "cleaner". (hitman) and Gary
> Oldman in an over the top performance has cleaned her family, about which
> she doesn't care except for her little brother "What did he ever do, he
> just wanted to be near me and cuddle," she cries.
>
> could sympathize with the quandry for Leon, who is no child molester, but
> who finds himself loving this extremely erotic, innocent
> almost-adolescent.
>
> Wasn't it David Kelley's THE PRACTICE that had a segment on a black 16
> year old guy who's being prosecuted for knocking up his 14 year old lover?
> It turns out he has a responsible, well paying job, is going to be made a
> foreman, loves the girl, they've been in love for two years, and are
> mature beyond their years. Three lives could have been ruined by
> generalized law applied to their case.
>
> Watch THE PROFESSIONAL. It's superb. Director Luc Besson is an artist so
> is Reno (MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, LA FEMME NIKITA, and the cop in FRENCH
> KISS). And Natalie Portman? She turned down the role of LOLITA, which may
> have been a wise choice.
>
> roar out their disapproval, the religious right will do mass mailings, and
> even though they're in the minority, Washington is too hypocritical and
> Hollywood is too chicken. Only Anne Rice and maybe Camille Paglia and
> certainly me will dare speak out. Just hope we don't drown in the
> outrage.
>
>
>
>
> This life is a test.
> It is only a test.
> If it had been an actual life,
> you would have received further instructions on where to go and what to do.
But gosh, this thread is older than I am.