Time for theaters to go FULL digital
RichA
a movie, see graininess, flickering light levels,
density variations, print damage, sprocket hole
damage leading to film stock motion, poorly
set-up projectors with all sorts of issues.
WHEN are the theaters going to go with digital projectors as
the NORM? Enough with film. They proven digital
projection is as good and in some ways superior
to film. Everything else has progressed, the way
they make movies, the sound, why not projection?
I watched "Ring 2" and was very annoyed that the
light levels kept varying in the picture. In
a crappy comedy, where light levels tend to be
uniformly high, this isn't as much an issue, but
dark movies, you see it in spades.
Are they going to do what the networks did, wait
till they all have way less money (in the network's
case, due to cable competition) and then adopt
digital, piece-meal the way the TV networks are
adopting HDTV?
-Rich
Hg
as the UK, we're going to have the biggest number of digital screens in the
world within a year.
Maybe the first time us poor Brits have been the first with anything :-)
TCS
My experience with a digital screen in Denver was ruined because the sound
levels were well over 100db even for plain conversations with no special
effects. I had my ears clenched, thumbs pressed against ears, during the
previews and couldn't block out a single word. It was louder than any rock
concert I've ever attended and everybody with me left with a splitting
headache. I have 480W of amplification in my car stereo (8X60W, for quadamped
stereo) and the movie volume level was louder.
I'm not sure who the hell they were trying to impress with the sound so fucking
loud. It's as if they thought AC was something new and had the AC down to 20
DEGF just because they could and thought it would be a display of their
fabulous equipment. Loud sound systems aren't anything new either. There was
no reason to push it to the limit.
RichA
Stupid too. Even THX doesn't mandate that kind of volume.
Same kind of morons have cheap boomy stereos cranked up in
whatever "Best Buy" people wander into.
-Rich
trotsky
Rich, are you trying to make me laugh? Do you know what the THX spec.'s
for theaters are? I don't. For homes, it's 85 db at the listening
position. It might be louder for theaters. I can say without a shadow
of a doubt, though, that the guy never experienced levels of 100 db,
unless something was really wrong, in which case it really isn't
indicative of anything.
> Same kind of morons have cheap boomy stereos cranked up in
> whatever "Best Buy" people wander into.
Tell us about the real good "stereos", Rich.
RichA
85db is for normally-voiced conversations.
It's the same for theatres as home. However, the dynamic range of
digital media means that you will experience passages in some movies,
like action scenes, where the sound level can go above 100db. But,
some theatres (less now than when Dolby Digital and DTS, SDDS were
first released) did crank it higher on some films. They were
violating THX mandated standards by doing that.
-Rich
TCS
If pressing my thumbs against my ears as hard as I could couldn't block out
a single word, it was a hell of a lot louder than 85db.
I guess trotsky has never been to a rock concert either. Doesn't get out much
does it?
trotsky
Yeah, your information is trash, Rich. First of all, "THX mandated
standards" is a meaningless phrase. Theaters can *choose* to have their
places THX certified if they choose to. I'm sure it costs a pretty
penny, too, which is why I don't seen very many THX theaters anymore.
There are minimum requirements that have to be met for certification.
Here is the overview: http://www.thx.com/mod/cinema/about.html. Oh, and
what a surprise, this page covers the volume limit:
http://www.thx.com/mod/services/tasaVolumeLimit.html. And, even bigger
surprise, the number quoted corresponds to 85 dB. Any other questions?
trotsky
I've been to more live shows at 42 years old than you could go to in 3
lifetimes. I've also sold THX home equipment for about 10 years. But
your measurement technique for determining sound pressure level is
fascinating. Stupid, but fascinating.
RichA
Only on conversation at normal levels. Louder sounds are...louder.
I've taken SPL meters into THX theatres to verify this. I've seen
volume jumps to 110db.
-Rich
TCS
>Only on conversation at normal levels. Louder sounds are...louder.
>I've taken SPL meters into THX theatres to verify this. I've seen
>volume jumps to 110db.
During the previews at that denver theater, the sound was heavily compressed,
as bad as a series of TV commercials. They probably had the volume at 110DB
the whole time.
trotsky
Idiot, didn't you read what was on the site? This is an AVERAGE over
time. Conversation would not be the average level of many soundtracks.
Guess again.
Louder sounds are...louder.
> I've taken SPL meters into THX theatres to verify this. I've seen
> volume jumps to 110db.
You have? You carry an SPL meter with you to the theater? And this is
110 dB at what distance from the screen?
trotsky
And just how would you know what 110 dB sounds like?
RichA
Conversational level does mean something to most people. It doesn't
mean shrieking, but then again with you it might.
>
> Louder sounds are...louder.
>> I've taken SPL meters into THX theatres to verify this. I've seen
>> volume jumps to 110db.
>
>
>You have? You carry an SPL meter with you to the theater? And this is
>110 dB at what distance from the screen?
I have. I've taken sound meters in. Distance from the screen about
40ft.
-Rich
trotsky
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:06:54 GMT, trotsky <gms...@email.com> wrote:
>
>
>>RichA wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:21:25 GMT, trotsky <gms...@email.com> wrote:
>>>>Yeah, your information is trash, Rich. First of all, "THX mandated
>>>>standards" is a meaningless phrase. Theaters can *choose* to have their
>>>>places THX certified if they choose to. I'm sure it costs a pretty
>>>>penny, too, which is why I don't seen very many THX theaters anymore.
>>>>There are minimum requirements that have to be met for certification.
>>>>Here is the overview: http://www.thx.com/mod/cinema/about.html. Oh, and
>>>>what a surprise, this page covers the volume limit:
>>>>http://www.thx.com/mod/services/tasaVolumeLimit.html. And, even bigger
>>>>surprise, the number quoted corresponds to 85 dB. Any other questions?
>>>
>>>
>>>Only on conversation at normal levels.
>>
>>
>>Idiot, didn't you read what was on the site? This is an AVERAGE over
>>time. Conversation would not be the average level of many soundtracks.
>> Guess again.
>
>
> Conversational level does mean something to most people. It doesn't
> mean shrieking, but then again with you it might.
That's alright, Rich. You don't want to admit that you don't know what
you're talking about--that's par for the course.
>> Louder sounds are...louder.
>>
>>>I've taken SPL meters into THX theatres to verify this. I've seen
>>>volume jumps to 110db.
>>
>>
>>You have? You carry an SPL meter with you to the theater? And this is
>>110 dB at what distance from the screen?
>
>
> I have. I've taken sound meters in. Distance from the screen about
> 40ft.
That's interesting--were you using A weighting or C weighting when you
took those measurements?
Pariah
Have you actually SEEN a movie in digital? Speaking for myself, the
local megaplex uses DLP technology fairly regularly, and each time I
see one I want my money back. The artifacts from digital compression
are like a dripping faucet... you try to ignore it for a while, but
after a while your head wants to explode. DLP does not hold a candle
to the inherent resolution and image quality of good old silver
nitride.
Give digital projection technology about 5 years to catch up, and we
can pick up this conversation again.
RichA
Both.
-Rich
RichA
Describe what kind of artifacting you mean. Is it like the kind you
see in say a video CD, that apparent?
-Rich
Hecubus
4ax.com:
Do you have any idea how much it would cost to refit existing theaters
with all digital? Having working in the movie theater business, I can
tell you that, for the most part, most of the major theater chains are
pretty darned tight with their money. Hell, the theater I used to work
at is still using some of the original projectors and platter systems
that it had when it opened over 20 years ago. Also consider the fact
that many chains encourage their projectionists to underlight the lamp
in the projector in the mistaken belief that, if the lamp doesn't burn
as bright, it will last longer. They want to squeeze every pennny they
can out of their equipment.
I'm sure, as new theaters are being built, more and more will be built
with digital systems. But to expect theaters to convert whole-hog to
digital any time soon is just unrealistic, to say the least.
--
Rick
Visit the Entropy Productions homepage at
http://www.kringlecityconspiracy.com/entropy.htm
Pariah
It's similar.. pixellation artifacts, and especially noticeable
dark/light transition problems. It's all due to crappiness of current
compression schemes and limited dynamic ranges of digital projection
hardware.
Digital theater looks great on 50 inch home screens, but if you blow
it up to 100 feet wide, you're going to see every flaw in the
technology.