CAHIERS DU CINEMA Top 10 for the 90s
Steve Erickson
The January issue of CAHIERS DU CINEMA includes their list of the 10 best
films of the 90s. As one might expect, the list could almost have been
calculated to make Americans mutter "Those kooky French!"
1. CARLITO'S WAY (Brian de Palma)
GOODBYE SOUTH, GOODBYE (Hou Hsaio-hsien)
THE BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY (Clint Eastwood)
4. EYES WIDE SHUT (Stanley Kubrick)
TWIN PEAKS: FIRE WALK WITH ME (David Lynch)
CLOSE-UP (Abbas Kiarostami)
UNFORGIVEN (Clint Eastwood)
8. CRASH (David Cronenberg)
EDWARD SCISSORHANDS (Tim Burton)
THE RIVER (Tsai Ming-liang)
--
Remove "no spam" to reply.
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Andrew Johnston
ste...@NOSPAMearthlink.net (Steve Erickson) wrote:
>
> The January issue of CAHIERS DU CINEMA includes their list of the 10 best
> films of the 90s. As one might expect, the list could almost have been
> calculated to make Americans mutter "Those kooky French!"
>
> 1. CARLITO'S WAY (Brian de Palma)
> GOODBYE SOUTH, GOODBYE (Hou Hsaio-hsien)
> THE BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY (Clint Eastwood)
> 4. EYES WIDE SHUT (Stanley Kubrick)
> TWIN PEAKS: FIRE WALK WITH ME (David Lynch)
> CLOSE-UP (Abbas Kiarostami)
> UNFORGIVEN (Clint Eastwood)
> 8. CRASH (David Cronenberg)
> EDWARD SCISSORHANDS (Tim Burton)
> THE RIVER (Tsai Ming-liang)
The wierdest thing about it has to be the placement of MADISON COUNTY
above UNFORGIVEN--I can't imagine how anyone with a serious appreciation
for Eastwood's work could possibly arrive at such a conclusion.
Skander Halim
> TWIN PEAKS: FIRE WALK WITH ME (David Lynch)
YEAH!!!
--
Skander Halim http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ba547/
"It's all right! It's okay! There's something to live for! Jesus told
me so!"
Charles Odell
Steve Erickson <ste...@NOSPAMearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>The January issue of CAHIERS DU CINEMA includes their list of the 10 best
>films of the 90s. As one might expect, the list could almost have been
>calculated to make Americans mutter "Those kooky French!"
>
>1. CARLITO'S WAY (Brian de Palma)
> GOODBYE SOUTH, GOODBYE (Hou Hsaio-hsien)
> THE BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY (Clint Eastwood)
> 4. EYES WIDE SHUT (Stanley Kubrick)
> UNFORGIVEN (Clint Eastwood)
> 8. CRASH (David Cronenberg)
> EDWARD SCISSORHANDS (Tim Burton)
> THE RIVER (Tsai Ming-liang)
>
four would only put EDWARD on my list (though if CRASH were
a 30-minute film, I'd also be tempted to put it on), I admire
this much more than the Village Voice's or the Cinematheque
Ontario one -- it's just so goofily eclectic. You have your
old-line Hollywood masters in Kubrick and Eastwood; the
singular visionaries in Lynch, Croneberg, and Burton; and
the heavy-duty art faves in Kiarostami and Hou. The list's
only real detriment in my eyes is having a dePalma on top.
Does CAHIERS mention how it was compiled? (Is there also any
reason why there's no French film on the list?)
--
Charles Odell cod...@mail.idt.net or cod...@cyberwar.com
The Chateau du Cinema -- http://outland.cyberwar.com/~codell
"I think we're the green thingie."
Karl Rackwitz
>
> On 28 Jan 2000 18:17:49 -0500, cod...@u2.farm.idt.net (Charles Odell)
> wrote:
>
[...]
> >Does CAHIERS mention how it was compiled? (Is there also any
> >reason why there's no French film on the list?)
> >--
> >Charles Odell
>
>
> John Harkness
They made a few good ones, John. Some that I've seen:
TROIS COULEURS: ROUGE/BLEU (if we want to count them as partly French)
CA COMMENCE AUJOURD'HUI (the new Tavernier)
LES ROSEAUX SAUVAGES (though you happened to dislike it, if I remember
correctly)
LES VOLEURS (another Techine)
DELICATESSEN
LE PETIT CRIMINEL (a Jacques Doillon picture, which hasn't been
distributed in America, as far as I know)
LEON
LE MARI DE LA COIFFEUSE
... though I would say, only TROIS COULEURS: ROUGE and the Tavernier
film qualify as really great in this list.
Best regards.
Karl
Karl Rackwitz
>
> Well, that was a joke, and I agree with you on the Kieslowski and the
> Tavernier. Also Rivette's La Belle Noiseuse and Desplechin's La
> Sentinelle, and Pascal Ferran's Petits Arrangements Avec La Mort.
>
> John Harkness
Thanks for these recommendations, John. I haven't seen them up to now
...
Karl
John H
wrote:
>In article <steevee-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net>,
>Steve Erickson <ste...@NOSPAMearthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>The January issue of CAHIERS DU CINEMA includes their list of the 10 best
>>films of the 90s. As one might expect, the list could almost have been
>>calculated to make Americans mutter "Those kooky French!"
>>
>>1. CARLITO'S WAY (Brian de Palma)
>> GOODBYE SOUTH, GOODBYE (Hou Hsaio-hsien)
>> THE BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY (Clint Eastwood)
>> 4. EYES WIDE SHUT (Stanley Kubrick)
>> TWIN PEAKS: FIRE WALK WITH ME (David Lynch)
>> CLOSE-UP (Abbas Kiarostami)
>> UNFORGIVEN (Clint Eastwood)
>> 8. CRASH (David Cronenberg)
>> EDWARD SCISSORHANDS (Tim Burton)
>> THE RIVER (Tsai Ming-liang)
>>
>Even if I've only seen 4 of the films on this list and of that
>four would only put EDWARD on my list (though if CRASH were
>a 30-minute film, I'd also be tempted to put it on), I admire
>this much more than the Village Voice's or the Cinematheque
>Ontario one -- it's just so goofily eclectic. You have your
>old-line Hollywood masters in Kubrick and Eastwood; the
>singular visionaries in Lynch, Croneberg, and Burton; and
>the heavy-duty art faves in Kiarostami and Hou. The list's
>only real detriment in my eyes is having a dePalma on top.
>
MuseMalade
:
: The January issue of CAHIERS DU CINEMA includes their list of the 10 best
: films of the 90s. As one might expect, the list could almost have been
: calculated to make Americans mutter "Those kooky French!"
:
: 1. CARLITO'S WAY (Brian de Palma)
I always thought CARLITO'S WAY was damn cool, and finally kooky French pundits
have vindicated me!
: THE RIVER (Tsai Ming-liang)
I don't really understand what the big deal is with Tsai Ming-liang. Wong
does the alienated city-dwellers in search of a soul thing so much better --
his energetic style captures both the moment-to-moment exhilaration and the
debilitating loneliness of East Asian city life. Tsai's Antonionisms are arty
in that paint drying kinda way, but they don't really illuminate. Good thing
he has a droll sense of humor...
MM
Steve Erickson
Odell) wrote:
> Does CAHIERS mention how it was compiled? (Is there also any
> reason why there's no French film on the list?)
It was compiled from the lists of a dozen of their editors and regular
contributors. They printed each writer's list, along with their commentary,
and plenty of French films made the individual lists. For some reason,
there didn't seem to be much consensus.
John H
<Matthias...@web.de> wrote:
>John H wrote:
>>
>> On 28 Jan 2000 18:17:49 -0500, cod...@u2.farm.idt.net (Charles Odell)
>> wrote:
>>
>[...]
>> >Does CAHIERS mention how it was compiled? (Is there also any
>> >reason why there's no French film on the list?)
>> >--
>> >Charles Odell
>>
>> Seen many French films from the 90s?
>>
>> John Harkness
>
>They made a few good ones, John. Some that I've seen:
>
>TROIS COULEURS: ROUGE/BLEU (if we want to count them as partly French)
>CA COMMENCE AUJOURD'HUI (the new Tavernier)
>LES ROSEAUX SAUVAGES (though you happened to dislike it, if I remember
>correctly)
>LES VOLEURS (another Techine)
>DELICATESSEN
>LE PETIT CRIMINEL (a Jacques Doillon picture, which hasn't been
>distributed in America, as far as I know)
>LEON
>LE MARI DE LA COIFFEUSE
>
>... though I would say, only TROIS COULEURS: ROUGE and the Tavernier
>film qualify as really great in this list.
>
>Best regards.
>
>Karl
Well, that was a joke, and I agree with you on the Kieslowski and the
XIVth WARRIORIUS!!!!
ste...@NOSPAMearthlink.net (Steve Erickson) wrote:
>
> The January issue of CAHIERS DU CINEMA includes their list of the 10
best
> films of the 90s. As one might expect, the list could almost have been
> calculated to make Americans mutter "Those kooky French!"
>
> 1. CARLITO'S WAY (Brian de Palma)
> THE BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY (Clint Eastwood)
> 4. EYES WIDE SHUT (Stanley Kubrick)
> TWIN PEAKS: FIRE WALK WITH ME (David Lynch)
> CLOSE-UP (Abbas Kiarostami)
> UNFORGIVEN (Clint Eastwood)
> 8. CRASH (David Cronenberg)
> EDWARD SCISSORHANDS (Tim Burton)
> THE RIVER (Tsai Ming-liang)
>
CARLITO'S WAY. COOL!!!
GOODBYE SOUTH BY WHO HOW WHEN? YUCK!!!
BRIGES BY EASTWOOD??? UGH!!!
TWIN GEEKS??? UGH!!!
UNFORGIVEN?? VOMIT!!!
CRASH?? DIDN'T SEE BUT PROBABLY SHIT.
EDWARD SCISSORHANDS? HOW DOES HE WIPE HIS ASS? HOW DOES HE TAKE A
LEAK? VERY CAREFULLY.
THE RIVER? WHO IS TSAI MING-LIANG? SINCE WHEN DID TAIWANESE CHINKS
LEARN HOW TO MAKE FILMS?
--
THIS WILL BE MY LAST, FINAL, AND FAREWELL POST!!
BUGS OF CINEMA SHALL NO LONGER BE TOLERATED.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
pfileri
Where can you buy Cahiers du Cinema? Is it at some newstands where they
have a lot of film magazines or is there someplace I could order it at? Is
there only the French version? Is there possibly an English translated
version?
I would very much appreciate any info concerning the above questions.
Paul
Matthew Butcher
> Where can you buy Cahiers du Cinema? Is it at some newstands where they
>have a lot of film magazines or is there someplace I could order it at? Is
>there only the French version? Is there possibly an English translated
>version?
What you want is an extremely large bookstore, or else a shop that deals
exclusively in newspapers and magazines; try a few of these, and you should
be able to find copies of Cahiers, Positif, etc. (At least if you live in
Canada -- maybe things are different in the U.S., where French instruction
isn't as common.) I don't know what your best options are if you aren't
living in a large enough city; subscription, probably. There's no English
version.
--
Matthew Butcher | Well, I'm a-goin' out, I'm goin' out lookin' for a
but...@math.ubc.ca | cynical girl. -- Marshall Crenshaw
Skander Halim
> I admire
> this much more than the Village Voice's or the Cinematheque
> Ontario one -- it's just so goofily eclectic.
I agree, and not just because it contains a film for which I've waged a
one-man, eight-year battle. To me, this list doesn't indicate that the
Cahiers critics are insane, but rather that they're incurable formalists --
and haven't they always been? Their list contains films whose narratives
might be described as too derivative (Carlito), repetitive (Crash), sappy
(Bridges), whimsical (Edward), or impenetrable (Twin Peaks) -- but I defy
anyone to claim that any of them could have been directed any better than
they were (I haven't seen the Hou or the Tsai, but I still don't think
there'll be any takers). I prefer a little more balance between form and
content myself, but I know what to expect from these dudes by now, and their
choices are pretty consistent and non-surprising.
--
Skander Halim | http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ba547/
"To wear the flesh to tear the flesh / can we not forbear the flesh? /
Corky's LIFE does not go on / into this era's Mongoloid dawn"
Jeff McCloud
news:3Frk4.177$AI.1...@news.itd.umich.edu...
> ste...@NOSPAMearthlink.net (Steve Erickson) wrote:
> :
> : The January issue of CAHIERS DU CINEMA includes
their list of the 10 best
> : films of the 90s. As one might expect, the list
could almost have been
> : calculated to make Americans mutter "Those kooky
French!"
> :
> : 1. CARLITO'S WAY (Brian de Palma)
>
finally kooky French pundits
> have vindicated me!
Yes CARLITO'S WAY is damn cool. Sean Penn was pretty
amazing, and you gotta love Pacino's voice over. Vigo
Mortenson had a ptretty amazing scene too: "I can't
shit! I can't hump! Carleeeeto..."
Warning--lots more international cinema talk
ahead--most of it incoherent and rambling as is my
nature.
> : THE RIVER (Tsai Ming-liang)
>
> I don't really understand what the big deal is with
Tsai Ming-liang. Wong
> does the alienated city-dwellers in search of a soul
thing so much better --
> his energetic style captures both the
moment-to-moment exhilaration and the
> debilitating loneliness of East Asian city life.
Tsai's Antonionisms are arty
> in that paint drying kinda way, but they don't really
illuminate. Good thing
> he has a droll sense of humor...
>
Personally I think there is room for both. I posited
this question to a friend, wondering if the relative
slowness of the big-name Taiwanese directors is a
regional thing as compared to a more frenetic Hong Kong
cinema. I don't know the answer and I have never been
to Asia, but I thought it might be worth asking.
As for the direct comparison betwee Tsai and Wong, I
think it is an interesting one because they seem so
stylistically opposed, yet are kinda after similar
things: random connections, unfulfilled desire,
obsessive behavior, loneliness, etc. Wong creates a
space of sensory overload, saturated colors glistening
to jam-packed soundtracks that rocket between pop song
punctuation and self-conscious voice overs. It is all
too much sometimes and we never have time to adjust,
but goddamn if Wong's movies ain't the most of that
most overused word of '99--that word being visceral.
Tsai is a quiet one, but don't let that fool you (I
haven't seen THE HOLE mind you). Where he goes beyond
mere Antonionality is that sense of humor you point out
as well as an acute eye for the absurd. The beauty of
Tsai's films is that he knows just how much to show.
You know what you need to about the characters and you
get the information in the most whacked out ways:
swatting away a fly that doesn't seem to be there, a
scooter crash, a quick toss under a bed. These things
illuminate this viewer anyway.
Anyhoo, while we are on the topic of the East Asian
urban alienation association, what do you think of
Edward Yang's films beyond A BRIGHTER SUMMER DAY.
CONFUCIAN CONFUSION and MAHJONG tread some of the same
territory as Wong and Tsai, but don't seem to have
garnered the same type of critical praise (of course
THE TERRORIZER'S counts here too but Freddy Jameson
already figured that one out for all of us lunkheads).
I recall finding these two films particularly strange
because of how they felt simultaneously Western and
foreign to me. I mean the characters *are* hanging out
at T.G.I. Fridays and all but Yang transforms that
experience into scenes that are awash in
uncomfortability and aggression. Or something like
that.
I doubt that Yang would have been heralded as director
of the decade had his films run in New York this year
instead of Hou because there is something slightly more
uneasy and almost angry about Yang's films. He digs
into the collision between East and West, whereas Hou
seems to be concerned with the more overriding inner
conflicts that have impacted Taiwan.
Anyways, isn't Taiwan over. I mean South Korea is
where it as at now right? Right? Fuck, better check
that Rotterdam schedule...
Jeff
Steve Erickson
<jeff_m...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Tsai is a quiet one, but don't let that fool you (I
> haven't seen THE HOLE mind you). Where he goes beyond
> mere Antonionality is that sense of humor you point out
> as well as an acute eye for the absurd. The beauty of
> Tsai's films is that he knows just how much to show.
> You know what you need to about the characters and you
> get the information in the most whacked out ways:
> swatting away a fly that doesn't seem to be there, a
> scooter crash, a quick toss under a bed. These things
> illuminate this viewer anyway.
THE HOLE takes Tsai's sense of humor further by the absurd yet seemingly
sincere staging of musical numbers in a grimly apocalyptic Fincher-esque
setting. I don't think Tsai is simply joking or going for cheap irony by
this device; he manages to capture the way pop culture can keep hope alive
without doing anything to change the material conditions of one's life.
Although I haven't seen THE RIVER, THE HOLE describes the same alienation
and inter-personal non-relations as his first two films, but it lets a hint
of optimism emerge out of all the grime.
> Anyways, isn't Taiwan over. I mean South Korea is
> where it as at now right? Right? Fuck, better check
> that Rotterdam schedule...
Actually, Japan is where it's at now, judging from this year's Rotterdam
programs.
Jeffrey Davis
>
> ste...@NOSPAMearthlink.net (Steve Erickson) wrote:
> :
> : The January issue of CAHIERS DU CINEMA includes their list of the 10 best
> : films of the 90s. As one might expect, the list could almost have been
> : calculated to make Americans mutter "Those kooky French!"
> :
> : 1. CARLITO'S WAY (Brian de Palma)
>
> I always thought CARLITO'S WAY was damn cool, and finally kooky French pundits
> have vindicated me!
Put Carlito's Way and American Heart on a double bill. DePalma's film
would score better on production values, and it undoubtedly has more
exciting set pieces, but American Heart tells the same story more
convincingly and movingly.
--
Jeffrey Davis <da...@ca.uky.edu>
Thank you, Madam, the agony is somewhat abated.
MuseMalade
: MuseMalade <musem...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
:
: As for the direct comparison betwee Tsai and Wong, I
: think it is an interesting one because they seem so
: stylistically opposed, yet are kinda after similar
: things: random connections, unfulfilled desire,
: obsessive behavior, loneliness, etc. Wong creates a
: space of sensory overload, saturated colors glistening
: to jam-packed soundtracks that rocket between pop song
: punctuation and self-conscious voice overs. It is all
: too much sometimes and we never have time to adjust,
: but goddamn if Wong's movies ain't the most of that
: most overused word of '99--that word being visceral.
: Tsai is a quiet one, but don't let that fool you (I
: haven't seen THE HOLE mind you). Where he goes beyond
: mere Antonionality is that sense of humor you point out
: as well as an acute eye for the absurd. The beauty of
: Tsai's films is that he knows just how much to show.
: You know what you need to about the characters and you
: get the information in the most whacked out ways:
: swatting away a fly that doesn't seem to be there, a
: scooter crash, a quick toss under a bed. These things
: illuminate this viewer anyway.
Oh, I agree with you there's room for both: let me add that I do mildly like
VIVE L'AMOUR and THE RIVER, and I acknowledge Tsai's absurd sense of humor,
whacked out twists, and especially mastery of off-screen space mark him as
being more than just Antonioni-in-Taiwan. (And of 1999 releases, none do I
regret missing more than THE HOLE.)
But...to borrow Vern's take on DRUGSTORE COWBOY, a drug movie is more honest
and compelling when it depicts the pleasure of a drug high. Both Wong and
Tsai offer up disaffected folks in soulless cities; but the former captures
the high, however temporary, of life in the modern city while Tsai fixates on
the ennui to the exclusion of all pleasure. Having sampled the breakneck
lifestyle in both cities, I assure you it's fun while you're doing it. Wong's
approach isn't just more entertaining and accessible, which of course it is,
but also more honest and vital.
(I think FALLEN ANGELS and CHUNGKING EXPRESS, more than any other movies in
the 1990s I've seen, point the finger towards an aimless, increasingly
culturally confused future. But to elaborate further would force me to fire
off all sorts of blowhard fin de siecle punditry, and that'd be just
embarrassing. Suffice it to say I think Wong deserves to be the "Director of
the Decade" not just because he's my favorite filmmaker this decade (he's
actually tied with Scorsese), but because he's the most important and
prophetic as well.)
: Anyhoo, while we are on the topic of the East Asian
: urban alienation association, what do you think of
: Edward Yang's films beyond A BRIGHTER SUMMER DAY.
: CONFUCIAN CONFUSION and MAHJONG tread some of the same
: territory as Wong and Tsai, but don't seem to have
: garnered the same type of critical praise (of course
: THE TERRORIZER'S counts here too but Freddy Jameson
: already figured that one out for all of us lunkheads).
: I recall finding these two films particularly strange
: because of how they felt simultaneously Western and
: foreign to me. I mean the characters *are* hanging out
: at T.G.I. Fridays and all but Yang transforms that
: experience into scenes that are awash in
: uncomfortability and aggression. Or something like
: that.
I don't have much to add to this (or Rosenbaum's remarkable Yang piece, which
is as good as it gets on this subject). I like 'em all, actually, and I agree
A CONFUCIAN CONFUSION and MAHJONG deserve better; they should merit at least
the same respect as the Ugly Architecture movies. And frankly, the fast pace
and easy humor of the latter two are more to my taste than the static ellipses
of TAIPEI STORY and THE TERRORIZER (which admittedly I need to see again,
since I couldn't follow the criss-crossing narrative at all the first time).
A CONFUCIAN CONFUSION should be better known, but it has a high rep among
those who've seen it. But the more abrasive MAHJONG doesn't. That movie
(which I read as the epilogue to A BRIGHTER SUMMER DAY) is I think derided
mainly because of the poor acting by the Westerners, which Rosenbaum believes
to be a subtle political statement by Yang. Interestingly, Gary Pollard,
former r.a.m. poster/gweilo in HK, expressed his hatred for MAHJONG by citing
its depiction Westerners as a cancer on Asian society, so maybe a lot of the
discontent with this picture boils down to politics rather than aesthetics.
: I doubt that Yang would have been heralded as director
: of the decade had his films run in New York this year
: instead of Hou because there is something slightly more
: uneasy and almost angry about Yang's films. He digs
: into the collision between East and West, whereas Hou
: seems to be concerned with the more overriding inner
: conflicts that have impacted Taiwan.
You know, I can't figure out why Yang doesn't garner as much respect as Hou
(I'd almost concur with Rosenbaum's claim that Yang "may have more to say
about the direction of modern life than any other filmmaker" had I not made
the same claim about Wong just a few paragraphs up), and I don't have any
interesting theories. Yang's just as good, I think, and he's never put me to
sleep. Maybe resident expert Mr. Kraicer can enlighten us. Shelly?
MM
"Don't stand in the way of my actualization as a man!"
-- Lotte, in BEING JOHN MALKOVICH
Luke Croll
writes>>In article <steevee-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net>,
>>Steve Erickson <ste...@NOSPAMearthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>The January issue of CAHIERS DU CINEMA includes their list of the 10 best
>>>films of the 90s. As one might expect, the list could almost have been
>>>calculated to make Americans mutter "Those kooky French!"
>>>
>>>1. CARLITO'S WAY (Brian de Palma)
>>> THE BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY (Clint Eastwood)
>>> 4. EYES WIDE SHUT (Stanley Kubrick)
>>> TWIN PEAKS: FIRE WALK WITH ME (David Lynch)
>>> CLOSE-UP (Abbas Kiarostami)
>>> UNFORGIVEN (Clint Eastwood)
>>> 8. CRASH (David Cronenberg)
>>> EDWARD SCISSORHANDS (Tim Burton)
>>> THE RIVER (Tsai Ming-liang)
>>>
>>four would only put EDWARD on my list (though if CRASH were
>>this much more than the Village Voice's or the Cinematheque
>>old-line Hollywood masters in Kubrick and Eastwood; the
>>singular visionaries in Lynch, Croneberg, and Burton; and
>>the heavy-duty art faves in Kiarostami and Hou. The list's
>>only real detriment in my eyes is having a dePalma on top.
>>
>>reason why there's no French film on the list?)
>>--
>>Charles Odell
>
>
>Seen many French films from the 90s?
>
>John Harkness
Funny you should mention it actually. Off the top of my head, 'La Classe
De Neige, 'Le Diner De Cons', 'Ca Commence Aujourd'hui', 'Secret
Defense', 'Delicatessen', 'La Cite Des Enfants Perdu', 'La Haine',
'Place Vendome' - any more?
--
Luke Croll
The alt.books.dean-koontz FAQ is found at:
http://www.mills1.demon.co.uk/FAQ.htm
Steve Erickson
(MuseMalade) wrote:
> You know, I can't figure out why Yang doesn't garner as much respect as Hou
> (I'd almost concur with Rosenbaum's claim that Yang "may have more to say
> about the direction of modern life than any other filmmaker" had I not made
> the same claim about Wong just a few paragraphs up), and I don't have any
> interesting theories. Yang's just as good, I think, and he's never put me to
> sleep. Maybe resident expert Mr. Kraicer can enlighten us. Shelly?
Hou seems to be admired for his entire ouevre, not for a single
masterpiece, while Yang's work as a whole may be undervalued because it's
easy to pick out A BRIGHTER SUMMER DAY. In terms of length and ambition,
CITY OF SADNESS may be Hou's equivalent, but it's probably his least
accessible film - at least to Westerners - while DAY may be Yang's most
accessible, despite its length. It's a lot easier to follow than THE
TERRORIZERS and doesn't offer the same sort of challenging take modern
Asian urban life as A CONFUCIAN CONFUSION and MAHJONG.
Apropos the supposed anti-Western themes in MAHJONG, someone asked Yang
after its NYFF screening if he thought the West was largely or solely to
blame for the malaise he's describing. He replied that the intersection of
Confucianism and capitalism was the main culprit.
I feel really guilty for not heading out to Queens to see Godfrey Cheshire
introduce DAY this afternoon, but I got up too late. Did any New Yorkers
here go?
Mike D'Angelo
: A CONFUCIAN CONFUSION should be better known, but it has a high rep
: among those who've seen it.
Call me a blasphemer, but I think CONFUSION is superior to A BRIGHTER
SUMMER DAY, which I saw for the first time this afternoon. (They're the
only two Yang pics I've seen so far, alas.) Now, Eric C. Johnson, who
eventually named ABSD his favorite film of 1997, says he didn't truly
recognize its genius until his second viewing, so maybe I need to see it
again; first time around for me was a bit of a slog, though, in all
honesty. No question that it's visually outstanding, and each individual
scene works well, and *eventually* it starts perceptibly to build to its
admittedly startling climax; but a lot of the first two hours or so
seemed unnecessarily...diffuse, I guess. There didn't seem to be a
logical progression from one event to the next, or even an emotional
or thematic progression (apart from "ah, look at all the displaced
people"); it felt more like Yang was determined to cram every single
memory of his adolescence into a single film. (As a disclaimer, I should
note that certain elements almost certainly flew over my decidedly
American head; the closing (unsubtitled) radio broadcast meant nothing to
me until Godfrey Cheshire explained it in the post-film Q&A, for
example.) Good stuff, but not mind-blowing on first encounter.
I'd initially set out in this post to exalt CONFUSION, but I now realize
that my memory of it is so vague that I'd just sound like an idiot; all I
really remember is that I enjoyed it enormously. It's clearly a less
ostentatiously ambitious film than ABSD, which is probably one of the
reasons I prefer it; I'm the kind of guy who'd far rather watch THE STEEL
HELMET than THE THIN RED LINE (or THE BIG RED ONE, for that matter). Both
films, it goes without saying, deserve much wider exposure than they've
thus far received hereabouts.
Mike "a dark and stormy night" D'Angelo
-The Man Who Viewed Too Much-
http://www.panix.com/~dangelo
Matthew Butcher
>(As a disclaimer, I should
>note that certain elements almost certainly flew over my decidedly
>American head; the closing (unsubtitled) radio broadcast meant nothing to
>me until Godfrey Cheshire explained it in the post-film Q&A, for example.)
Explained it how?
Mike D'Angelo
: Mike D'Angelo wrote:
:> (As a disclaimer, I should note that certain elements almost certainly
:> flew over my decidedly American head; the closing (unsubtitled) radio
:> broadcast meant nothing to me until Godfrey Cheshire explained it in
:> the post-film Q&A, for example.)
:
: Explained it how?
Cheshire said what we hear is a list of the students who graduated from
Si'r's class, which concurs with a remark made by Jonathan Rosenbaum in
his 1997 piece on the Chicago Yang retro. A Taiwanese audience member,
however, corrected him, explaining that it's actually a list of those
students who've passed their exams and been accepted to "day school" (I
get the impression that "night school" is something like junior college),
which makes more sense (i.e., is even more moving/tragic).
I'm always frustrated when the folks doing the subtitles concentrate
entirely on the film's dialogue. We see several close-ups in ABSD of
what characters are reading -- actual inserts of pages, held for so
long that we're clearly meant to get a sense of what's written there --
and I may go to my grave without having the slightest clue.
Mike "fhjk dhjkfh hdfjfh s fhjfh" D'Angelo
MuseMalade
:
: Call me a blasphemer, but I think CONFUSION is superior to A BRIGHTER
: SUMMER DAY, which I saw for the first time this afternoon. (They're the
: only two Yang pics I've seen so far, alas.) Now, Eric C. Johnson, who
: eventually named ABSD his favorite film of 1997, says he didn't truly
: recognize its genius until his second viewing, so maybe I need to see it
: again; first time around for me was a bit of a slog, though, in all
: honesty. No question that it's visually outstanding, and each individual
: scene works well, and *eventually* it starts perceptibly to build to its
: admittedly startling climax; but a lot of the first two hours or so
: seemed unnecessarily...diffuse, I guess. There didn't seem to be a
: logical progression from one event to the next, or even an emotional
: or thematic progression (apart from "ah, look at all the displaced
: people"); it felt more like Yang was determined to cram every single
: memory of his adolescence into a single film.
since from the opening frame on, I was transported to one of the most richly
evocative worlds I've ever seen conjured on film. Screenwriting checkpoints
like "logical progression of events" didn't even occur to me. Mind you, upon
reflection I found everything perfectly coherent -- emotionally, logically,
thematically -- but the movie just absorbed me in a way that rendered stuff
like that hopelessly academic.
On the matter of thematic progression: you've quite correctly gathered the
main point to be displaced people, but alas, the genius lies in how Yang
depicts the displacement: the father's confusion and loss of authority; Si'r
drifting into a Chinese street gang; the whole mulling about scenes in the
pool halls; and how ultimately Si'r tries to latch on to Ming to shape his
fragile sense of identity (of course, Rosenbaum's essay describes this better
than I ever can). To say A BRIGHTER SUMMER DAY is just "look at all the
displaced people" is kinda like saying BARTON FINK is only about "a
pretentious shmuck who develops writer's block."
: I'm the kind of guy who'd far rather watch THE STEEL
: HELMET than THE THIN RED LINE (or THE BIG RED ONE, for that matter).
Fair enough. But recall in our THIN RED LINE spat last year, you specifically
complained about Malick's (tiresome, in your view) groping for Large Meaning.
By contrast, here the focus is on the small and quotidian, and meaning arrives
lucidly from an accumulation of small incidents and the careful use of props,
which is used as subtly -- more subtly, actually -- than any Merchant-Ivory
chamber drama or Mamet mindfuck thriller. Unless you simply find it difficult
to embrace long ambitious movies regardless of how they deal with their
ambitions, it's one or the other, Mike.
On the matter of the narrative being diffuse: undoubtedly you've read
Cheshire's piece, so I won't belabor you with by extolling the picture's
elegant two-part structure. The movie isn't so much diffuse as episodic,
which memory pieces usually are -- but what Yang does is subtly (that word
again!) signal a cultural shift in the background of each scene while in
orchestrating a REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE dance of death in the foreground. This
two-way dynamic is why I love this movie so much: Yang ends up combining my
two absolute favorite kinds of movies -- the detailed portrait of
a dying/fledging culture in transition (MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS; THE AGE OF
INNOCENCE) with the obsessive and fatalistic love story (VERTIGO, JULES ET
JIM, BRAZIL, UGETSU, CASABLANCA). In a way, it's the Chinese THE RULES OF THE
GAME (the other perfect chronicle of doomed love amidst cultural change) and
to me, the "emotonal progression" of DAY, in its novelistic accumulation of
incident and detail, leads to a heartstopping climax that becomes even more
powerful than the greenhouse shooting in RULES.
Whoa, did I just write all that? I guess you'll have to excuse me for
sounding a bit defensive, seeing as how I believe A BRIGHTER SUMMER DAY to be
the greatest movie of the last twenty-five years and one of three or four most
wrenching moviegoing experiences of my life.
MM
DRutsala
the Decade" not just because he's my favorite filmmaker this decade (he's
actually tied with Scorsese), but because he's the most important and
prophetic as well.) >>
I gotta agree with you there.
I'm slowly compiling my list of the top ten of the nineties, but I already know
that Chungking Express is No. 1.
Shelly Kraicer
musem...@yahoo.com (MuseMalade) wrote:
> Whoa, did I just write all that? I guess you'll have to excuse me for
> sounding a bit defensive, seeing as how I believe A BRIGHTER SUMMER DAY
> to be
> the greatest movie of the last twenty-five years and one of three or four
> most
> wrenching moviegoing experiences of my life.
Gosh, if I'd known that all the really interesting Hou/Yang discussion
took place here, I wouldn't have wasted 5 years of my youth over at
alt.asian-movies.
I'm not sure I have much to add to your beautiful description of what
ABSD accomplishes. That and the Rosenbaum and Cheshire pieces cover the
ground, nicely.
As for Yang vs. Hou reception in the West, well, that's a tricky
subject, and one that tends to get me a little too worked up, for some
reason. Although I'm somewhat interested in Western reception of these
East Asian masterpieces (largely because they tend to determine what
sort of access I get to them, on screens with English subs, as opposed
to VCDs with only Chinese subtitles, which I then have to struggle to
work out), I'm not sure that the subject tells us as much about the
films as it does about Western filmgoers/writers/canon-makers. So I try
to follow local (Chinese) reception of the films, which, perhaps
naively, might unlock more about what's "actually" in the films, in the
matrix of ways in which they connect with the cultures in which they are
set: what do they oppose, deconstruct, confirm, acknowledge, shatter,
reshape, celebrate...
I'm really sick of the kind of Western film writing that locks, say,
Wong Kar-wai into Cassavetes-this and Godard-that, tightly, smugly and
all-too-neatly sealing his work into little Western film-reception
boxes, that negate the works' difference, neuter their strangeness, and
confirm Western film as the Standard by which all is judged.
Having got that off my chest, there is a vast, interesting, intersecting
middle ground, that many French critics (Jean-Michel Frodon, in
particular) have a handle on, a sort of pan- or trans-national space
that's infused with energy from Asian films (Taiwan, Korea, Hong Kong,
Iran), co-productions, some outward-looking Hollywood product, and the
Assayas generation of French filmmakers (to name just a few, off the top
of my head). Neither Hollywood-ized foreign glossy films, nor insular,
Asian-films-for-Asians, but a relatively new cultural space without a
centre, or whose "centre", if that term has any meaning left, has
shifted definitely towards East Asia. As "difference" becomes less of a
crucial defining term, the way "we" watch "their" films and the way
"they" watch "ours" is part of the process of constructing a bricolated
(sorry, there must be an actual word), energizing culture that gives
everyone something newly energized.
Um, back to Yang and Hou...
Could it be that Hou is more easily assimilable into an orientalizing
style of discourse (like, most of Zhang Yimou's films are): even the new
Cahiers book talks about the essential "Chineseness" of his movies,
whatever that could possibly mean. So critics' pre-existing categories
of prototypical "Chinese" film, exhibiting the "difference" that they
like to find there, work well for Hou, and make him relatively easy to
celebrate. Whereas Yang's, as others have mentioned in this thread,
exhibit much more of an apparent synthesis between Western and Chinese
cultures. They're much more modern, like us, they have identifiable
songs, restaurants, economic attitudes, politics. They hit too close to
home, while still preserving a tangible geographic and linguistic
remove. So we simultaneously recognize parts of ourselves, our culture,
in a completely "foreign" context. This is tougher, much more complex,
with less precedent, less pre-thought-out critical categories to pick up
and run with, if you're programming a festival or writing and article.
Fredric Jameson has shown one way to do it, but who can write like him?
Another possible reason, one more functional: Hou works with a team, has
a support network in Taiwan and outside, that can manage distribution to
festivals and to a certain extent guide reception and writing in Paris
(capitale mondiale de Hou-reception?) and elsewhere. Whereas Yang is
much more a loner: he fights to scrape together enough money, shoots,
then puts his films out there, and waits to see what happens.
Shelly
--
Shelly Kraicer http://www.interlog.com/~kraicer
* to reply via email, remove INVALID from address *
Mike D'Angelo
: Hmm...the movie obviously didn't work the same way for you as it did
: for me, since from the opening frame on, I was transported to one of
: the most richly evocative worlds I've ever seen conjured on
: film. Screenwriting checkpoints like "logical progression of
: events" didn't even occur to me.
I put that badly -- "logic" doesn't really have anything to do with it,
and I wasn't necessarily looking for a Syd Field three-act structure.
TOPSY-TURVY is both lengthy and episodic, for example, but there's still
a discernible forward motion that I found lacking in ABSD; the characters
have a goal and they pursue it, even if it takes Sullivan half the film
to come around. ABSD is to a large degree a film about anomie, and I
tend as a rule to have trouble with those; I end up feeling as alienated
as the characters. (Suffuse your film with romantic longing, as Wong
does in CHUNGKING EXPRESS and FALLEN ANGELS, or employ a farcical plot
that wouldn't feel out of place in a "Three's Company" episode, as Tsai
does in VIVE L'AMOUR, and I may be able to cope.) In hindsight, it's
fairly clear what Yang is going for, but much of the first two hours
seemed kinda random while they were unspooling in front of me, and
consequently I felt a bit restless. That's why I'm prepared to revise my
opinion if/when I get a chance to see the film again; as I said, my
reaction seems very similar to Eric Johnson's, and a second viewing made
a world of difference for him. Unfortunately, it only screened once this
go-round, so who knows how long I'll have to wait.
One thing I've noted in reading various appreciations of the film is that
the people who revere it invariably wax rhapsodic about its various
themes, rarely discussing what actually *happens* in it, beyond a cursory
plot summary. Mundane details like performance and narrative are by and
large ignored in favor of lengthy analyses of its depiction of cultural
displacement and alienation; critics (yourself included) seem excited
about the subtext, not the text. Maybe the problem is that I'm just not
terribly moved by abstractions like "a society in transition, grappling
helplessly for meaning." Not that I can't appreciate a film's larger
implications, but it needs to grab me first and foremost on a more basic
level, in terms of what's happening to the characters onscreen from
moment to moment, and that didn't happen here -- not nearly as much as it
did in CONFUSION, anyway. (Again, I did *like* the film; it just didn't
bowl me over.)
: Fair enough. But recall in our THIN RED LINE spat last year, you
: specifically complained about Malick's (tiresome, in your view) groping
: for Large Meaning. By contrast, here the focus is on the small and
: quotidian [...]
...in service of Large Meaning; see above. Hemingway famously advised
writers to "take out all the good lines and see if it still works," and
while Ernie's not exactly my favorite literary giant, I think it's good
advice. In this case, the analogous question is "if you disregard the
movie's subtext, is it still interesting?" I'm afraid that for me the
answer is No, which means that my admiration is distant and academic. At
no point did I find it as wrenching as something like EXOTICA or HEAVENLY
CREATURES or RED, all of which work for me on both levels. No doubt ABSD
works similarly for you; all I can say is that this time the fundamental
emotional connection eluded me -- I remained a dispassionate observer
throughout.
Or you can just chalk it up to me being a mainstream yahoo at heart.
Mike "tell me about the rabbits, Muse" D'Angelo
-The Man Who Viewed Too Much-
http://www.panix.com/~dangelo
p.s. I've been humming the main theme from "A Whiter Shade of Pale" for
the last two days, and only just now consciously realized why. Does this
ever happen to anybody else vis-a-vis movie titles? Other recent
examples include "American Woman" (AMERICAN BEAUTY/MOVIE), "Here Comes
Santa Claus" (TWIN FALLS IDAHO), and "Oliver's Army," which I finally
determined was triggered by ANGELA'S ASHES ("Angela's ashes are here to
stay/Angela's ashes are charcoal gray...").
Grimfarrow
DRutsala wrote:
> <<Suffice it to say I think Wong deserves to be the "Director of
> the Decade" not just because he's my favorite filmmaker this decade (he's
> actually tied with Scorsese), but because he's the most important and
> prophetic as well.) >>
>
> I gotta agree with you there.
>
> I'm slowly compiling my list of the top ten of the nineties, but I already know
> that Chungking Express is No. 1.
Chungking Express is my No. 2, right after Saving Private Ryan (I know, I know).
I am truly anxiously awaiting the new Wong movie, 2046, which marks the return
of the enigmatic Faye Wong to the screen! Yay! She hasn't been in a movie for 6
years, despite all the accolades for her role in Chungking Express. Also rumored
to be in it is Bjork! Tony Leung is also back. It should be a very interesting
movie,
because it's the first time Wong Kar-Wai is venturing into sci-fi.
The film is set to debut at Cannes this year. Heard Faye, Tony, Carina and Kimura
(the major stars of the movie) are slated to appear at Cannes as well. Yay!
np: Faye Wong - Century of Loneliness
Grimfarrow
Jeff McCloud
Grimfarrow <rpha...@calpoly.edu> wrote in message
news:3895F60F...@calpoly.edu...
> I am truly anxiously awaiting the new Wong movie,
2046, which marks the return
> of the enigmatic Faye Wong to the screen! Yay! She
hasn't been in a movie for 6
> years, despite all the accolades for her role in
Chungking Express. Also rumored
> to be in it is Bjork! Tony Leung is also back. It
should be a very interesting
> movie,
> because it's the first time Wong Kar-Wai is venturing
into sci-fi.
> The film is set to debut at Cannes this year. Heard
Faye, Tony, Carina and Kimura
> (the major stars of the movie) are slated to appear
at Cannes as well. Yay!
I for one am thanking whatever god it is that rules
over the cinematic heavens that the Bjork rumors are
false, false, false. Tony Rayns nipped that ugly
little possibility in the bud and damn do I feel
better. Sure, she should let Wong direct one of her
videos (as long as Doyle comes along), but I do not
want to see her plying her elfin magic anywhere near
Tony Leung, thank you very much.
Jeff
Grimfarrow
Jeff McCloud wrote:
> I for one am thanking whatever god it is that rules
> over the cinematic heavens that the Bjork rumors are
> false, false, false. Tony Rayns nipped that ugly
> little possibility in the bud and damn do I feel
> better.
Where did you get this information? I for sure really want to hear
more. In fact, any news of 2046 is urgently needed!
> Sure, she should let Wong direct one of her
> videos (as long as Doyle comes along), but I do not
> want to see her plying her elfin magic anywhere near
> Tony Leung, thank you very much.
Hehe :) I really do like her videos a lot though.
Grimfarrow
>
> Jeff
Jeff McCloud
> Where did you get this information? I for sure
really want to hear
> more. In fact, any news of 2046 is urgently needed!
You should pick up the January Sight & Sound pretty
damn quick (since it'll probably be gone soon). It has
a longish article on Wong by Tony Rayns who reports on
footage from the new period piece with Maggie Cheung
and Tony Leung as well as dispelling the evil rumor
that Bjork might be in 2046. Kevin Spacey is on the
cover but the new one'll be out soon...
Jeff
MuseMalade
Mike D'Angelo <dan...@panix.com> wrote:
:
: One thing I've noted in reading various appreciations of the film is that
: the people who revere it invariably wax rhapsodic about its various
: themes, rarely discussing what actually *happens* in it, beyond a cursory
: plot summary.
Really? I thought Cheshire's piece went far beyond a cursory plot summary
into an extremely detailed blow-by-blow recap. In fact, just reading it
again, almost the whole body is taken up with close analysis of the
progressing incidents in the movie. His best bit was showing how Yang's only
use of the object-match cut works to express the longing of Si'r and Ming, but
also to foreshadow Honey's intrusion into Si'r's life.
And while Rosenbaum is tied up with the idea of cultural displacement
(though again, ain't nothing wrong with big ideas, provided the ideas
illuminate), he doesn't shortchange the movie's emotional power, either. (See
below.)
: Mundane details like performance and narrative are by and
: large ignored in favor of lengthy analyses of its depiction of cultural
: displacement and alienation; critics (yourself included) seem excited
: about the subtext, not the text.
: Maybe the problem is that I'm just not
: terribly moved by abstractions like "a society in transition, grappling
: helplessly for meaning."
Either I'm not expressing myself well or you're fundamentally misreading me.
Frankly, I'd be pretty embarrassed if one of the "three or four most wrenching
moviegoing experiences of my life" were merely some abstract examination of a
society in transition. I must emphasize again: the *story* hit me like a mack
truck. Rosenbaum brought up REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE not only as because it's
touches on the same elements of adolescent confusion and romantic longing, but
because, like REBEL, ABSD crescendos to an almost operatic emotional
intensity. This is his brilliant description of the movie's essence:
"Indeed, imagine a Rebel that culminates with James Dean murdering Natalie
Wood, then bewailing his loss, and you'll get some measure of the tragic and
lyrical despair underlying Yang's vision."
As I mentioned earlier, in the foreground is a dance of death between
adolescent lovers, while the details of cultural anomie lurk somewhere in the
fringes (ready to be ferreted out by those who care to look and ignored by
those who don't, to paraphrase one internet luminary). No matter how lucid a
movie is, if it worked *primarily* on this abstract level you describe (even
ones as self-evidently brilliant as SAFE or 2001), they're probably gonna left
off my Best of Decade list, much less my all-time top 10 list. It's the
romantic fatalism, the "tragic despair" that elevates A BRIGHTER SUMMER DAY
into an All Timer.
: Hemingway famously advised
: writers to "take out all the good lines and see if it still works," and
: while Ernie's not exactly my favorite literary giant, I think it's good
: advice. In this case, the analogous question is "if you disregard the
: movie's subtext, is it still interesting?" I'm afraid that for me the
: answer is No, which means that my admiration is distant and academic. At
: no point did I find it as wrenching as something like EXOTICA or HEAVENLY
: CREATURES or RED, all of which work for me on both levels. No doubt ABSD
: works similarly for you; all I can say is that this time the fundamental
: emotional connection eluded me -- I remained a dispassionate observer
: throughout.
Strangely -- and I don't mention this to strike an Armond pose -- I kinda feel
the same way about *your* favorite movie of the 1990s. I think EXOTICA is
mindblowing, of course, and I admire it tremendously. But the emotions work
exclusively on a theoretical level for me; I mean, I could probably write a
passable essay w/r/t Egoyan's "cathartic technique," but I can't say I was
left devastated the way it left the other 'Net guys. Maybe that's why I may
be the only person on your survey not to have alloted it any points. Goes to
show there's no accounting for emotion.
(And just to prove it, Steve will soon confess to breaking down during
WAVELENGTH, and Jeff McCloud will reveal how THE FUNERAL left him a wreck.)
: Or you can just chalk it up to me being a mainstream yahoo at heart.
Oh, come now. If all the visible decade surveys involved TV critics (naming
THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION the 90s' best), I'd wager you'd be on some
Rosenbaumian rant about how LEILA deserved more support from xenophobic
critics.
In all seriousness, while A BRIGHTER SUMMER DAY is a 4-hour Taiwanese period
piece lauded by humorless museum programmers, it's fundamentally as accessible
as a good 19th century novel. T'aint the kind of Difficult Art Film of the
Hou-Kiarostami school that drives folks (and John Harkness) away. Well,
maybe Harkness...
MM
John H
wrote:
I actually quite like the contemporary Hou films -- Daughter of the
Nile, Good Men, Good Women (unless that's a Yang, I disremember. I've
very little patience with the historicals -- City of Sadness, for
example, and Puppetmaster, simply because I suspect there's a whole
layer of historical information that cripples my understanding of the
films, and I don't care enough about Taiwanese history to go out and
find out what that is.
John Harkness
Sammy Fischer
> In article <38924249....@nntp.netcom.ca>, John H <jg...@netcom.ca>
> writes
> >
> >Seen many French films from the 90s?
> >
> >John Harkness
>
> Funny you should mention it actually. Off the top of my head, 'La Classe
> De Neige, 'Le Diner De Cons', 'Ca Commence Aujourd'hui', 'Secret
> Defense', 'Delicatessen', 'La Cite Des Enfants Perdu', 'La Haine',
> 'Place Vendome' - any more?
'On Connait la Chanson' for example ... and, at the very beginning of the 90s,
'Cyrano De Bergerac'.
'Le Mari de la coiffeuse' was also a 1990 movie.
Luke Croll
writes
Just remembered 'Dobermann', 'Taxi', 'Romance', 'Fin D'Aout, Debut
Septembre' as well.
Steve Erickson
Kraicer <s.kraice...@utoronto.ca> wrote:
> I'm really sick of the kind of Western film writing that locks, say,
> Wong Kar-wai into Cassavetes-this and Godard-that, tightly, smugly and
> all-too-neatly sealing his work into little Western film-reception
> boxes, that negate the works' difference, neuter their strangeness, and
> confirm Western film as the Standard by which all is judged.
I know what you mean, but isn't the influence of Godard on Wong Kar-wai
pretty obvious? The references to Western film and music aren't exactly
accidental or gratuitous.
>
> Having got that off my chest, there is a vast, interesting, intersecting
> middle ground, that many French critics (Jean-Michel Frodon, in
> particular) have a handle on, a sort of pan- or trans-national space
> that's infused with energy from Asian films (Taiwan, Korea, Hong Kong,
> Iran), co-productions, some outward-looking Hollywood product, and the
> Assayas generation of French filmmakers (to name just a few, off the top
> of my head). Neither Hollywood-ized foreign glossy films, nor insular,
> Asian-films-for-Asians, but a relatively new cultural space without a
> centre, or whose "centre", if that term has any meaning left, has
> shifted definitely towards East Asia. As "difference" becomes less of a
> crucial defining term, the way "we" watch "their" films and the way
> "they" watch "ours" is part of the process of constructing a bricolated
> (sorry, there must be an actual word), energizing culture that gives
> everyone something newly energized.
This is a terrific summation of the sensibility I'm attempting to write
from, and you're right that the French generally do it much better than
North Americans.
Mike D'Angelo
: Either I'm not expressing myself well or you're fundamentally
: misreading me. Frankly, I'd be pretty embarrassed if one of the "three
: or four most wrenching moviegoing experiences of my life" were merely
: some abstract examination of a society in transition. I must emphasize
: again: the *story* hit me like a mack truck. Rosenbaum brought up
: REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE not only as because it's touches on the same
: elements of adolescent confusion and romantic longing, but because,
: like REBEL, ABSD crescendos to an almost operatic emotional
: intensity.
The comparison to REBEL is illuminating, but it also points to the reason
why I think ABSD wasn't nearly as emotionally harrowing for me: Ray's
film focuses almost entirely on Jim, whereas Yang's scope is considerably
broader. (This is what I meant when I called the film "diffuse"; I
wasn't really referring to the episodic narrative.) Only in the final
hour or so did it even become clear to me that Si'r was the film's
protagonist (or the closest thing to it, anyway). In fact, the film it
most reminds me of from a structural standpoint is DO THE RIGHT THING,
even if it's far more protracted -- a year instead of a day. Si'r, if
you think about it, is ABSD's Mookie: the character we get to know best,
and ultimately the film's emotional linchpin, but by no means its primary
subject. The thing is, DTRT really *is* a movie about an entire
community, and it works so brilliantly in large part *because* Lee's
story is so doggedly Aristotelian; it doesn't become a mere abstraction
because the tension never stops building. ABSD, for me, too often went
slack (I did feel those four hours); and while there are moments of great
power throughout, there are just too many things going on in it for me to
have been deeply moved by the dance of death to which you refer. Imagine
a four-hour REBEL in which we keep leaving Jim and Judy and Plato behind
in order to examine Jim Backus' troubles with government functionaries,
and maybe you can see why I sometimes found myself distracted.
Needless to say, none of this is intended to challenge your high opinion
of the film. I'm just trying to explain, as coherently as I can, why it
didn't really rock my world to the degree that I'd anticipated/hoped.
(Also, I didn't much like Si'r, because people with apostrophes in their
names are invariably pathetic losers.)
Mike "no, that's a very ambitious comma" D'Angelo
Shelly Kraicer
ste...@NOSPAMearthlink.net (Steve Erickson) wrote:
> In article <s.kraicerINVALID-4A...@news.psi.ca>, Shelly
> Kraicer <s.kraice...@utoronto.ca> wrote:
> > I'm really sick of the kind of Western film writing that locks, say,
> > Wong Kar-wai into Cassavetes-this and Godard-that, tightly, smugly and
> > all-too-neatly sealing his work into little Western film-reception
> > boxes, that negate the works' difference, neuter their strangeness, and
> > confirm Western film as the Standard by which all is judged.
>
> I know what you mean, but isn't the influence of Godard on Wong Kar-wai
> pretty obvious? The references to Western film and music aren't exactly
> accidental or gratuitous.
It's not that I think they're accidental, at all. Just that they risk
being wildly out-of-context. It would be foolish completely to deny the
influence of Godard on Wong Kar-wai (or, for that matter, on Hou
Hsiao-hsien -- he said it himself in the new Cahiers book). It's just
that, if one is going to write about stylistic influence in a useful way
(that broadens one's understanding of the film's sources and alliances,
rather than that flattens it), one has to talk about local influences
too, along with Godard et al. Put Chungking Express in the context of
the films that Wong Kar-wai was watching and assimilating at home: has
anyone looked at the wild, freedom-loving Hong Kong 60s comedies
starring, say Josephine Siao? Or seen how much he took from, and
rejected from his apprenticeship with HK New Wave director Patrick Tam?
If you're doing influence, you've got to integrate the broad picture,
local as well as international.
> > [...] shifted definitely towards East Asia. As "difference" becomes less of a
> > crucial defining term, the way "we" watch "their" films and the way
> > "they" watch "ours" is part of the process of constructing a bricolated
> > (sorry, there must be an actual word), energizing culture that gives
> > everyone something newly energized.
>
> This is a terrific summation of the sensibility I'm attempting to write
> from, and you're right that the French generally do it much better than
> North Americans.
Thanks, but would have been better had I written, as I intended,
"... revitalizing culture that gives everyone something newly
energized." Oh well.
What other filmmakers might do this sensibility particularly well? As
far as critics are concerned, I'm particularly impressed with Alvin Lu
in the San Francisco Bay Guardian, see e.g.
<http://www.sfbg.com/AandE/God/50.html>