Ocean's 11 ending question (spoilers)
Franklin Gothic
</spoiler space>
What confused me was what exactly were Andy Garcia's two henchmen doing
following Clooney as he was released from prison at the end. Were they
there following Garcia's orders? Was this to show how Garcia is still
out to get Clooney and retrieve his money? Does this have to do with
the exchange between Clooney and Garcia just before he gets turned over
to the police (for his parole violation). I actually missed a bit of
that dialogue (I was sitting near some friggin idiots who couldn't stop
yapping).
Thanks for clearing this up.
Brandon Dennis
news:161220010507521345%I_do_not_...@this.address:
I think this was just to show that they knew they were being followed.
Garcia had said that he would be watching Clooney constantly, everywhere
he went, yada yada yada, and that he should avoid making any large
purchases, etc.
So yeah, I think Garcia was trying to see if Clooney was responsible for
taking his money by sending his henchmen to tail them. The entire
symbolism for this scene is questionable by me. I guess it shows Garcia's
sticking to his promise to constantly follow Clooney and that Clooney is
super-sharp by asking where they are as soon as he walks out of prison,
but other than that there's really no resolution to it.
I know that doesn't help a great deal, but it's the best I can offer :)
-bd
Denise Perry
I'm also wondering if Clooney, realizing he'd never be able to spend any of the
money (because Garcia's guys would always be watching him), is proving that Tess
is more important to him than the money. The other guys can spend their share
(Garcia doesn't know who they were), but Clooney has what he really wanted all
along AND he's driving Garcia nuts!
This is where it's at!
http://www.will.uiuc.edu/WILL_Contents/WILL/news/livewill.ram
Arthur Lipscomb
Recall, earlier in the movie when Ocean was listing who he would need,
they were the "twins".
Ocean had 11 guys (12 if you count the guy beating him at the hotel),
those two at the end were numbers 10 and 11.
Franklin Gothic
<dpe...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
> I'm also wondering if Clooney, realizing he'd never be able to spend any of the
> money (because Garcia's guys would always be watching him), is proving that Tess
> is more important to him than the money. The other guys can spend their share
> (Garcia doesn't know who they were), but Clooney has what he really wanted all
> along AND he's driving Garcia nuts!
I think you're absolutely right. I think I was trying to read more into
this than necessary.
However, someone else had responded about the these henchmen as being
part of Ocean's "eleven" (i.e. his gang) referring to the "twins". I
thought the twins were the two guys who handled the driving. (I loved
how they had so many different roles in the whole scheme).
Thanks everyone for their responses.
Arthur Lipscomb
>
> In article <3c1cbe60....@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, Denise Perry
> <dpe...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> > I'm also wondering if Clooney, realizing he'd never be able to spend any of the
> > money (because Garcia's guys would always be watching him), is proving that Tess
> > is more important to him than the money. The other guys can spend their share
> > (Garcia doesn't know who they were), but Clooney has what he really wanted all
> > along AND he's driving Garcia nuts!
>
> I think you're absolutely right. I think I was trying to read more into
> this than necessary.
>
> However, someone else had responded about the these henchmen as being
> part of Ocean's "eleven" (i.e. his gang) referring to the "twins". I
> thought the twins were the two guys who handled the driving.
You're supposed to assume that. It's done that way to make it a
surprise at the end when the real twins are revealed. I thought it was
cleverly done. But going from memory I think the twins were actually
referred to as the "muscle" not the drivers. Again, it's real easy to
miss and is set up in a way so that you will miss it; but like the Sixth
Sense, if you look at it again knowing how it ends, everything should
make sense. I think it was obvious to me because after Clooney
mentioned the twins, the two guys shown clearly weren't twins and I was
a bit taken aback by that. Although I counted the crew several times,
and never managed to reach eleven, I just assumed I was missing a few
(and took for granted that the brothers were supposed to be the twins
mentioned). It wasn't until the end that I realized the two henchmen
were the twins mentioned earlier in the movie. Clooney planned on
getting caught all along. If those three (two henchmen plus the guy who
beat him) hadn't all been in on it, Clooney would have been beat for
real (worse than he was) and wouldn't have been able to sneak out and
join Matt Damon's character. He would have also risked being taken out
back and shot by them. In this case case even if Garcia himself decided
to pull the trigger, Clooney would have had three very large guys there
on his side whom Garcia thought he could trust.
(I loved
> how they had so many different roles in the whole scheme).
I liked that as well, it was a nice running joke. I'm almost surprised
none of the casino employees noticed it was the same two guys wearing
different uniforms.
Shelby
No, the two guys at the end of the movie were Garcia's henchmen following
Danny/Tess.
Shelby
Franklin Gothic
> Franklin Gothic wrote:
> > However, someone else had responded about the these henchmen as being
> > part of Ocean's "eleven" (i.e. his gang) referring to the "twins". I
> > thought the twins were the two guys who handled the driving.
In article <3C1D1AD3...@ucdavis.edu>, Arthur Lipscomb
<aalip...@ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> You're supposed to assume that. It's done that way to make it a
> surprise at the end when the real twins are revealed. I thought it was
> cleverly done. But going from memory I think the twins were actually
> referred to as the "muscle" not the drivers.
Hey, I think I've settled this now. I went to the official site, and
here are the Ocean's 11 gang:
01. George Clooney: "The Idea Man"
02. Matt Damon: "The Rookie"
03. Brad Pitt: "The Pro"
04. Bernie Mac: "The Inside Man" (i.e. the dealer)
05. Elliot Gould: "The Bankroll"
06. Casey Affleck: "The Getaway" (i.e. one of the brothers)
07. Scott Caan: "The Getaway" (i.e. the other brother)
08. Don Cheadle: "The Bomber"
09. Shabao Qin: "The Grease Man"
10. Edward Jemison: "The Eye in the Sky" (i.e. the computer guy)
11. Carl Reiner: "The High Roller"
So definitely the two henchmen are not considered part of the gang.
Arthur Lipscomb
Presuming Ocean had eleven members on his crew, if those two guys aren't
on the team then a couple of people are missing. It's possible I'm
forgetting someone perhaps you can fill in the missing crew members.
1. Brad Pitt (Dusty Ryan)
2. Don Cheadle (Roscoe Means)
3. Matt Damon (Linus Caldwell)
4. Casey Affleck (Virgil Malloy)
5. Scott Caan (Turk Malloy)
6. Bernie Mac
7. Carl Reiner (Saul Bloom)
8. Edward Jemison (Dell) - I think this is the computer guy
9. Shaobo Qin (Yen)
10.
11.
Elliott Gould (Ruben Tischkoff) and Julia Roberts didn't participate in
the robbery. But even if you include Elliott Gould as part of the crew
that still leaves an empty spot which would be filled by the twins as a
group instead of individually (I think from the dialogue Elliott Gould's
character was not amongst the people "needed" when Clooney was making
his list, but I'm not positive). The guy who beat Clooney was clearly
indicated as not part of the eleven. Clooney said as much when he was
asked about him and said he had to fork over an additional couple of
million to get his help. So unless there aren't eleven crew members,
spots 10/11 would be filled in by the henchmen/twins. Clooney said they
would need someone on the inside and I believe he referred to the twins
as the muscle. While the Malloy brothers were neither twins nor the
muscle nor on the inside for that matter; the two henchmen fit all
categories.
Shelby
eleven. I noticed that before this thread was mentioned. (see below)
> 1. Brad Pitt (Dusty Ryan)
> 2. Don Cheadle (Roscoe Means)
> 3. Matt Damon (Linus Caldwell)
> 4. Casey Affleck (Virgil Malloy)
> 5. Scott Caan (Turk Malloy)
> 6. Bernie Mac
> 7. Carl Reiner (Saul Bloom)
> 8. Edward Jemison (Dell) - I think this is the computer guy
> 9. Shaobo Qin (Yen)
> 10.
> 11.
>
> Elliott Gould (Ruben Tischkoff) and Julia Roberts didn't participate in
> the robbery.
Elliott is still part of the eleven because they couldn't do the job without
his upfront financing of the plan.
> But even if you include Elliott Gould as part of the crew
> that still leaves an empty spot which would be filled by the twins as a
> group instead of individually
You left off Danny Ocean. Like I said above, it should be Ocean's 10...but
Danny was part of the eleven in the first movie. So I'm guessing that's why
he's part of it for this one.
> Clooney said they would need someone on the inside
That would be Bernie Mac's character.
> and I believe he referred to the twins as the muscle. While
> the Malloy brothers were neither twins nor the muscle nor
> on the inside for that matter; the two henchmen fit all
> categories.
I can't comment on this because I don't remember the conversation about the
muscle. I would assume it was the guy he had to pay off, but that's just a
guess. I need to see the movie again before I could be convinced the two
guys at the end were part of the plan. Wouldn't Rusty have paid them off
and we wouldn't have seen them again if they were in on the plan? Why would
they follow him?
Shelby
Mike and Dorcie
As I recall, the 11 are as follows:
1. Brad Pitt
2. Matt Damon
3. Don Cheadle
4. Elliot Gould
5. Carl Reiner
6. The guy who played Yen
7. Bernie Mac
8. The security expert
9. The younger Malloy
10. The older Malloy
11. The big guy who pretended to pummel him
Dorcie
Dan Meyer
>
> Recall, earlier in the movie when Ocean was listing who he would need,
> they were the "twins".
> Ocean had 11 guys (12 if you count the guy beating him at the hotel),
> those two at the end were numbers 10 and 11.
Negative. The "twins" were Virgil and Turk Malloy of Utah. I think
you've miscounted somewhere.
Dan
Arthur Lipscomb
>
> Technically, it should be Ocean's Ten because Danny is included in the
> eleven. I noticed that before this thread was mentioned. (see below)
I've seen Ocean included in the list elsewhere as well. It makes no
sense to include him if the title's Ocean's eleven; but it looks like
that may have been the intention after all. You're right, they should
have called it Ocean's Ten at least then the title would have made
sense.
>
> > 1. Brad Pitt (Dusty Ryan)
> > 2. Don Cheadle (Roscoe Means)
> > 3. Matt Damon (Linus Caldwell)
> > 4. Casey Affleck (Virgil Malloy)
> > 5. Scott Caan (Turk Malloy)
> > 6. Bernie Mac
> > 7. Carl Reiner (Saul Bloom)
> > 8. Edward Jemison (Dell) - I think this is the computer guy
> > 9. Shaobo Qin (Yen)
> > 10.
> > 11.
> >
> > Elliott Gould (Ruben Tischkoff) and Julia Roberts didn't participate in
> > the robbery.
>
> Elliott is still part of the eleven because they couldn't do the job without
> his upfront financing of the plan.
>
Which is why I wasn't sure if he should be counted or not. Elliott was
more Ocean's boss and therefore not Ocean's and he didn't actually help
carry out any bags. But as you say without him there would be no job.
> > But even if you include Elliott Gould as part of the crew
> > that still leaves an empty spot which would be filled by the twins as a
> > group instead of individually
>
> You left off Danny Ocean. Like I said above, it should be Ocean's 10...but
> Danny was part of the eleven in the first movie. So I'm guessing that's why
> he's part of it for this one.
After all this time you'd think they'd fix the title. Then again, why
screw with a perfectly good title.
>
> > Clooney said they would need someone on the inside
>
> That would be Bernie Mac's character.
True, but I originally discounted him as the inside man since he was not
the only one on the inside.
>
> > and I believe he referred to the twins as the muscle. While
> > the Malloy brothers were neither twins nor the muscle nor
> > on the inside for that matter; the two henchmen fit all
> > categories.
>
> I can't comment on this because I don't remember the conversation about the
> muscle. I would assume it was the guy he had to pay off, but that's just a
> guess. I need to see the movie again before I could be convinced the two
> guys at the end were part of the plan. Wouldn't Rusty have paid them off
> and we wouldn't have seen them again if they were in on the plan? Why would
> they follow him?
>
> Shelby
I'll have to watch the movie again as well, it looked to me like Clooney
saw and acknowledged the two guys following him. I guess it really
depends on if Clooney is part of his eleven (and of course the two
brothers are the twins). Since apparently Clooney is one of his own
eleven, those two henchmen would be working for Garcia after all. They
were twins weren't they? I still think it would have been more clever
if they were in on it, but perhaps this sets up a sequel...
Kevin FilmNutBoy
>Shelby wrote:
>>
>> Technically, it should be Ocean's Ten because Danny is included in the
>> eleven. I noticed that before this thread was mentioned. (see below)
>
>I've seen Ocean included in the list elsewhere as well. It makes no
>sense to include him if the title's Ocean's eleven; but it looks like
>that may have been the intention after all. You're right, they should
>have called it Ocean's Ten at least then the title would have made
>sense.
Does that also mean that Kelly wasn't one of the heroes?
--Kevin
***
"Love is when you tell a guy you like his shirt, then he wears it
everyday." Noelle - age 7
BIG D 1775
SPOILER SPACE
Ocean's 11, is the 11 men who do the robbery.
1. Clooney
2. Pitt
3. Damon
4. Don Cheadle
5. Affleck
6. Caan
7. Bernie Mac
8. Reiner
9. Jemison (computer guy)
10. (Yen)
11. Elliot Gould (money to aback the plan)
This keeps in line with the original, where the 11, were a group of
ex-commandos led by Danny Ocean.
It is also backed up by the official web site.
http://oceans11.warnerbros.com/cmp/premiere.html
jeffa
Consul de Designers
> 09. Shabao Qin: "The Grease Man"
Why was he a 'grease man'? 'Cause he can get into slippery places or something?
--
I have built a 'so far' contact list to those friends of my family,
your prayers and thoughts would be appreciated.
Jameson Stalanthas Yu, 'mutatis mutandis, strive to be humane, not human'
Link at: http://www.dolphins-cove.com
R. Mast
>
<snip>
While the Malloy brothers were neither twins nor the
> muscle nor on the inside for that matter; the two henchmen fit all
> categories.
The Malloy brothers were fraternal twins not identical twins. Fratenal
twins do not have to look alike yet are born at the same time.
--
-R. Mast
Arthur Lipscomb
Good point. I never thought of that.
Mark
I believe the trick ending of the movie is that Danny Ocean's crew
(including himself) numbers 13, not 11. Spots 10 and 11 above are
filled by George Clooney's and Elliot Gould's characters. Spots 12
and 13 are the two henchmen who ostensibly work for Andy Garcia's
character but in fact are part of the plan.
Now let me argue my case:
When the heist is going down, Garcia asks for the amount contained in
his vault. The figure he is reported is in excess of $163 million.
We, as an audience, are shown this figure written on a card rather
than simply hearing the figure reported verbally. This may be a clue
to the audience to pay attention to the money. Also Clooney, in
describing the plan to his recruits, says, "You do the math" -- maybe
another clue.
At the very end of the movie, as Clooney is getting out of prison
again, he says to Brad Pitt something to the effect of "Thirteen
million dollars and you pick me up in this piece of junk?" Now, $13
million for each of the 11 comes out to a total take of $143 million,
not $163 million. Take that $163 million and split it among 13 and
each guy gets slightly more than $12.5 million, very close to the
number Clooney mentions to Pitt.
The implication: The two henchmen were in on the heist. But if Garcia
were to find out that his own men were in on the job, he'd have them
killed too (along with Clooney and anyone else Garcia could identify).
So the henchmen play along, follow Clooney for a while, then go back
and report to their boss that Clooney is clean.
As for the bruiser, Clooney says to Damon that he's paid him off but
seems to imply that the money comes out of Clooney's own take.
The biggest hole that I have with my theory is that Elliot Gould's
character, who financed the whole thing, gets left with less than $13
million once his expenses are subtracted. But then again, he did not
have the same risk of getting caught.
-Mark
mar...@yahoo.com
marej...@gmail.com
marej...@gmail.com
kdc0...@gmail.com
> <spoiler space>
