Apollo 13 inconsistencies
Chris Pelley
inconsistencies in Apollo 13. First, they show
Houston engineers using slide rules to perform
calculations. Meanwhile, they're sitting in a
room full of computers? Also, one of the
astronauts brings what appears to be a Sony
Walkman aboard the ship. Or maybe it's just a
tiny cassette player. Either way, I thought
players this small didn't show up until later
in the 70's. It seems that if they had
Walkmans, they could've had pocket calculators
instead of slide rules?
Lynn Loschin
: I was wondering if anybody caught two apparent
: inconsistencies in Apollo 13. First, they show
: Houston engineers using slide rules to perform
: calculations. Meanwhile, they're sitting in a
The computers werent like ours, with tons of preloaded software for
different functions. They had limited memory and every bit was being
used. For a good discussion of what using those computers was like, see
Michael Collins' book Carrying The Fire, discussing using the computers
on the Gemini spacecraft to communicate with the Agena satellite.
: room full of computers? Also, one of the
: astronauts brings what appears to be a Sony
: Walkman aboard the ship. Or maybe it's just a
: tiny cassette player. Either way, I thought
: players this small didn't show up until later
: in the 70's. It seems that if they had
: Walkmans, they could've had pocket calculators
: instead of slide rules?
Its a small tape recorder. They probably used what looked more like a
walkman than what actually was around at the time, but astronauts on the
lunar missions really did bring them to listen to music on the way home.
The slide rules were also a dramatic device just so we all remembered how
different things were at the time. Young kids are so used to computers
today, that reminding the audience we didnt always have them was
important to show the complexity of the task at hand.
--
-========================================================================-
/ Lynn Loschin, 2L |E-mail: llos...@netcom.com (preferred) /
/ UC Davis School of Law| bllo...@ucdavis.edu /
/ Davis, CA 95616 |http://www.microserve.com/PlanetX/lloschin.html /
-========================================================================-
BuryMore
1970. The slide rule thing was to show how we have come to rely on
computers. The ones in 1970 probably could not have come up with the
calculations any faster then the math whizzes at NASA with a slide rule.
VICTOR VOLKMAN
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-> From: cpe...@packet.net (Chris Pelley)
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-> Subject: Apollo 13 inconsistencies
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-> I was wondering if anybody caught two apparent
-> inconsistencies in Apollo 13. First, they show
-> Houston engineers using slide rules to perform
-> calculations. Meanwhile, they're sitting in a
-> room full of computers? Also, one of the
-> astronauts brings what appears to be a Sony
-> Walkman aboard the ship. Or maybe it's just a
-> tiny cassette player. Either way, I thought
-> players this small didn't show up until later
-> in the 70's. It seems that if they had
-> Walkmans, they could've had pocket calculators
-> instead of slide rules?
There is no reason why a cassette tape player has to be much larger than a
cassette. The Walkman was a marketing breakthrough more than a technical
breakthrough. You simply cannot compare it to a pocket calculator. The
caluclators we know and love rely on an integrated circuit density that was
still nearly a decade away.
Bryce Utting
: Its not a walkman----and they did have cassette players that small in
: 1970. The slide rule thing was to show how we have come to rely on
: computers. The ones in 1970 probably could not have come up with the
: calculations any faster then the math whizzes at NASA with a slide rule.
Precision, too, and the hands-on nature of a slide rule can make it a
lot harder for wrong numbers to slip through.
There'd be a speed problem, but probably one of response time - I'd be
surprised if the systems in use at NASA at the time would've allowed
anyone to get an answer to an unexpected equation without going through
a coding-compiling-executing cycle each time.
The folklore attached to my all-too-fallible memory describes the mess
that resulted from there being no way for all the various NASA machines,
all designed for separate, specific, purposes, to talk to each other.
The (alleged) easiest way was to chalk up various factors as they came
up on a blackboard - someone (allegedly) photographed the blackboard
during the crisis, but NASA (allegedly) prevented the photo from being
released... guess they figured they'd had enough embarressment for one
mission.
Apple-ogies for the (deliberate) vagueness - no, I'm not likely to be
able to find the magazine I read this in, and if I could, I probably
wouldn't believe it anyway... the alt.folklore.computers archives
might have something, though.
cheers, butting
--
Bryce Utting
http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~butting
James Pavlovich
No, Slide rules were correct for the time. The computers of the
time were too expensive and specialized to be wasted on arithmetic.
The inconsistancy was that they were using slide rules for addition.
>Also, one of the
>astronauts brings what appears to be a Sony
>Walkman aboard the ship. Or maybe it's just a
>tiny cassette player. Either way, I thought
>players this small didn't show up until later
>in the 70's. It seems that if they had
>Walkmans, they could've had pocket calculators
>instead of slide rules?
>
I saw a seen from one of the Apollo 13 documentaries
that showed the cassette players floating around in the cabin
and they looked just like the ones used in the film.
I remember these types being much more expensive than the
cheap piano-key type I had. Sony popularized and brought the
price down on the smaller style later.
Pocket calculators were not common until the mid '70's and
engineers were among the last to adopt them as they could still
do more with a slide rule than the simple early calculators.
jgp
VICTOR VOLKMAN
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-> to!not-for-mail
-> From: but...@cs.waikato.ac.nz (Bryce Utting)
-> Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies.current-films
-> The folklore attached to my all-too-fallible memory describes the mess that
-> resulted from there being no way for all the various NASA machines, all
-> designed for separate, specific, purposes, to talk to each other. The
-> (alleged) easiest way was to chalk up various factors as they came up on a
-> blackboard - someone (allegedly) photographed the blackboard during the
-> crisis, but NASA (allegedly) prevented the photo from being released...
-> guess they figured they'd had enough embarressment for one mission.
We'll have to chalk this one up (pun intended) to folklore for now. I seem to
recall that NASA had a preponderance of IBM mainframes (nobody else would bid
on some of the reliability requirements). And, frankly, its not as if they had
8 different kinds of Unix boxes (oops, pre-Unix era).
I've read Lovell's "LOST MOON" along with 10 other Apollo-era books by
engineers "CHARIOTS FOR APOLLO" and astronauts (Lovell, Borman, Collins,
Slayton, Shepard, and others) and haven't run into stories of photograhing
blackboards -- which is not to say that its not possible.
wer...@uni-duesseldorf.de
>engineers were among the last to adopt them as they could still
>do more with a slide rule than the simple early calculators.
right!
and it works sometimes faster...
so long,
steve
Paul Hager
>> I was wondering if anybody caught two apparent inconsistencies in
>> Apollo 13. First, they show Houston engineers using slide rules to
>> perform calculations. Meanwhile, they're sitting in a room full of
>> computers?
> As a college student during the late 60's and early 70's, I know that
> that's not at all inconsistent. The year 1970 was the tail end of the
> slide rule days. All the engineering nerds wore them on their belts
> (just as they would later wear their calculators). I didn't start
> seeing "sliderule" calculators (ironic name) until around 1975 or so.
> When calculators arrived, a friend at UC-Berkeley in 1976 told me of
> seeing sliderules being sold by the pound. Now they're collectors
> items.
Let me echo your answer. As a sociology undergraduate ('68-73), I
lived through the transition from sliderule to calculator. The
University of Houston, where I got my degree, had recently built a
multi-million dollar computer center that housed a Univac 1108 --
a monster that was fed innumerable boxes of computer cards every day.
The big innovation that people were talking about was something called a
CRT -- I never got to use one, rating only a teletype. In statistics
class, the students used large electro-mechanical desk calculators.
They were a kick to play with: having them take a square root of
a large number would result in much thrashing and grinding. Sociology
types didn't have slide rules -- math was something to be avoided
if at all possible. I was something of an oddball in that I took
physics, chemistry, and calculus -- and DID have one of the things.
The small calculators started to materialize around the time I
graduated. Texas Instruments was one of the first to produce
them. I bought one of the first HP's -- there was a certain
snob-appeal in using reverse polis.
I should also mention that I attended a science fair competition that
was held at the Space Center when I was in high school. Apollo 13,
whatever its other flaws (e.g., sound in space -- gak!!), recreated
the technological atmosphere of the late 60s-early 70s pretty well.
--
paul hager hag...@cs.indiana.edu
"The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason."
-- Thomas Paine, _The Age of Reason_
Lynn Loschin
: I should also mention that I attended a science fair competition that
: was held at the Space Center when I was in high school. Apollo 13,
: whatever its other flaws (e.g., sound in space -- gak!!), recreated
: the technological atmosphere of the late 60s-early 70s pretty well.
The audience is so used to sound in space, thanks to other movies and TV
(Star Trek) they would have thought it very very weird to have none at
all. And their wasn't much of it.
Alexandra Jones
by a computer. do you know if this is true?
Lynn Loschin
: i agree. i also heard that the takeoff wasn't nasa footage and that it was done
: by a computer. do you know if this is true?
Computers and good ol fashioned models.
Philip Stephens
>I also heard that the takeoff wasn't NASA footage and that it was done
>by a computer. Do you know if this is true?
It's a well documented fact that the lift-off scene was done by special
FX (as was the splash-down and all other space scenes in between). It wasn't
_all_ computer animation though. A combination of models and computer graphics
was used. If you want details, you should look for one of the several books
available on the making of Apollo 13.
Axle Foley
>i agree. i also heard that the takeoff wasn't nasa footage and that it was done
>by a computer. do you know if this is true?
That is true. Actually non of the space footage, including lift off
was used from any NASA films. I dont reallt know why NASA films werent
used but all special effects were created from scratch.
Axle Foley
University Of Michigan
Where a Woolverine is Born.
