Eraser --- catching up with parachute?
Charles Blair
I haven't seen anybody question this yet. Certainly impossible if
you ignore air resistance. I look forward to a nice long thread
about whether air resistance makes enough of a difference to make
it possible.
Erik Wynstra
Air resistance makes all the difference. A smaller, relatively lightweight
object will be more affected by air resistance than a heavier, denser body. If
a person in freefall assumes a vertical position, they will fall much faster
than if in a horizontal position. It's like comparing an apple to a feather,
which one will fall faster. Yes, it is possible.
Erik
JBA
c-b...@staff.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) wrote:
> I haven't seen anybody question this yet. Certainly impossible if
> you ignore air resistance. I look forward to a nice long thread
> about whether air resistance makes enough of a difference to make
> it possible.
This is a blatant ripoff of the Bond film, Moonraker, where Bond was
push out of a jet by Jaws and had to grab a parachute on the way down.
The scene was done by a real stuntman with none of this computer
generated crap from this Arnold film. ... When will this guy stop
ripping off the Bond films???????... So to answer your question, It
has been done before and much better.
Tim Gould
In article <4qf92k$j...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Charles Blair <c-b...@staff.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> I haven't seen anybody question this yet. Certainly impossible if
> you ignore air resistance. I look forward to a nice long thread
> about whether air resistance makes enough of a difference to make
> it possible.
Haven't seen the movie, but it doesn't strike me as being impossible.
And if you want to see a variation on it done for real, rent "Moonraker."
D. Ewing
In <4qf92k$j...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> c-b...@staff.uiuc.edu (Charles
Blair) writes:
>
> I haven't seen anybody question this yet. Certainly impossible if
> you ignore air resistance. I look forward to a nice long thread
> about whether air resistance makes enough of a difference to make
> it possible.
Here are a few other fascinating facts about Eraser:
1. Arnold S. is an actor and former body builder, Not an agent for the
government.
2. Arnold doesn't really shoot a live alligator in the film, special
effects were used.
3. Even before Arn catches up with the parachute, he hangs from a plane
door and barely misses a flaming jet engine. Chances are very thin for
a person trying to do this.
My point is this, much of film making is creating an alternate,
hightened reality. Sometimes action films bend the rules of physics to
give you a little titilation, since we have to deal with the laws of
physics all our lives in the real world. Oh sure I've seen a few films
that made me roll my eyes and groan, but every once in a while it's fun
to give yourself over to the convension of a film and not cloud your
thoughts with notions of "air resistance" and such.
Goodnight, AIR RESISTANCE ?
Then again, that's just my opinion - I'm seldom wrong.
Gravyman.
Erik Wynstra
> Here are a few other fascinating facts about Eraser:
>1. Arnold S. is an actor and former body builder, Not an agent for the
>government.
>2. Arnold doesn't really shoot a live alligator in the film, special
>effects were used.
>3. Even before Arn catches up with the parachute, he hangs from a plane
>door and barely misses a flaming jet engine. Chances are very thin for
>a person trying to do this.
> My point is this, much of film making is creating an alternate,
>hightened reality. Sometimes action films bend the rules of physics to
>give you a little titilation, since we have to deal with the laws of
>physics all our lives in the real world. Oh sure I've seen a few films
>that made me roll my eyes and groan, but every once in a while it's fun
>to give yourself over to the convension of a film and not cloud your
>thoughts with notions of "air resistance" and such.
>Goodnight, AIR RESISTANCE ?
>Then again, that's just my opinion - I'm seldom wrong.
>Gravyman.
>
I'm sure Mr. Blair realizes all this but was just curious if the freefall
scene was feasible. From what I've seen (and I haven't seen the movie yet) The
freefall scene looks fairly well done. Only problem is, the clips I've seen
from this particular scene go like this. Arnold hangs on side of plane. Arnold
tries to grab parachute, but parachute eludes Arnold. Arnold falls past
flaming engine (ouch), Arnold catches up to parachute but winds up getting
entangled in parachute (kiss your ass good bye). Arnold lands, parachute
fully deployed, on a car. Arnold obviously untangles himself and I would sure
like to see how!
Erik
Erik Wynstra
>This is a blatant ripoff of the Bond film, Moonraker, where Bond was
>push out of a jet by Jaws and had to grab a parachute on the way down.
>The scene was done by a real stuntman with none of this computer
>generated crap from this Arnold film. ... When will this guy stop
>ripping off the Bond films???????... So to answer your question, It
>has been done before and much better.
Hey, how about that freefall scene in the beginning of GoldenEye! That was a
doozie! (Sorry, had nothing to do with this thread, just had to say it)
I need to get off this ride!
Erik
LLV
In article <babel.3.14...@pop.service.ohio-state.edu>, bab...@pop.service.ohio-state.edu says...
>
>
>> I haven't seen anybody question this yet. Certainly impossible if
>> you ignore air resistance. I look forward to a nice long thread
>> about whether air resistance makes enough of a difference to make
>> it possible.
>
>
>object will be more affected by air resistance than a heavier, denser body. If
>a person in freefall assumes a vertical position, they will fall much faster
>than if in a horizontal position. It's like comparing an apple to a feather,
>which one will fall faster. Yes, it is possible.
hahaha, it's a new version of superman! that was my first reaction when
i saw that stupid scene. Well,it's a movie anyway.
Robert W. Hall
One nitpick-- the Hollywood myth of the instantly exploding car. Nothing
was mentioned about it being loaded w/ explosives, but the limo would not
have blown up instantly when hit by the train-- spit in two-- likely, but
blown up (the fuel tank is in the rear..).
Robh
Matt Martinez
JBA wrote:
> This is a blatant ripoff of the Bond film, Moonraker, where Bond was
> push out of a jet by Jaws and had to grab a parachute on the way down.
> The scene was done by a real stuntman with none of this computer
> generated crap from this Arnold film. ... When will this guy stop
> ripping off the Bond films???????... So to answer your question, It
> has been done before and much better.
>
Well, seeing as how ERASER was much better than that piece of trash Star
Wars rip-off known as MOONRAKER (admit it, MOONRAKER never would have
been made if Star Wars hadn't come around, and I'm sure Fleming's
original novel didn't have that laser fight crap), I don't mind if they
borrowed that scene. True, it may have been one of the best Bond
openings in history, but they could have made the rest of the movie a
whole hell of a lot better!
--
Matt
This is my anti-sig file.
RiK
Erik Wynstra (bab...@pop.service.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
I'm just going to spoil this for you... :) So don't read it.
: I'm sure Mr. Blair realizes all this but was just curious if the freefall
: scene was feasible. From what I've seen (and I haven't seen the movie yet) The
: freefall scene looks fairly well done. Only problem is, the clips I've seen
: from this particular scene go like this. Arnold hangs on side of plane. Arnold
: tries to grab parachute, but parachute eludes Arnold. Arnold falls past
: flaming engine (ouch), Arnold catches up to parachute but winds up getting
: entangled in parachute (kiss your ass good bye). Arnold lands, parachute
: fully deployed, on a car. Arnold obviously untangles himself and I would sure
: like to see how!
Up to Arnold catches up to parachute, everything is fine, here's where
seeing the movie comes in handy: Arnold cathes the chute, puts it on and
deploys it it fine. Then the plane circles around to ram him, he shoots,
the plane barely misses, but the wind, etc. from the planes causes him to
get tangled up in the chute. He manages to cut himself free from the
parachute, and barely gets the reserve chute deployed before hitting the
top of the car rather hard... (ouch).
Rik :)
: Erik
Oliver Willis
> c-b...@staff.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) wrote in article
<4qf92k$j...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
> I haven't seen anybody question this yet. Certainly impossible if
> you ignore air resistance. I look forward to a nice long thread
> about whether air resistance makes enough of a difference to make
> it possible.
>
up with the falling airplane?
--
SuperChannel
The Internet Entertainment Authority
http://superchannel.pair.com
Oliver Willis, Editor owi...@emi.net
Lukas Bradley
>> I haven't seen anybody question this yet. Certainly impossible if
>> you ignore air resistance. I look forward to a nice long thread
>> about whether air resistance makes enough of a difference to make
>> it possible.
>Does this remind anyone else of the scene in Goldeneye where Bond catches
>up with the falling airplane?
Actually, that was one of the more believable things in the movie.
Lukas
My temporary homepage : http://members.tripod.com/~LukasBradley/
Colin C.
> > you ignore air resistance. I look forward to a nice long thread
> > about whether air resistance makes enough of a difference to make
> > it possible.
> >
> Does this remind anyone else of the scene in Goldeneye where Bond catches
> up with the falling airplane?
Or that scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark when Indy catches up to
the truck while rising a horse. ;-)
--
....................................................................
Colin "Snake" Cunningham EMail: co...@coredp.com
C.O.R.E. Digital Pictures HTTP://www.coredp.com/index.html
No Fear. No Stuntman. No Equal.
....................................................................
Chris Cannon
Erik Wynstra <bab...@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
>
>> Here are a few other fascinating facts about Eraser:
>
>>1. Arnold S. is an actor and former body builder, Not an agent for the
>>government.
>>2. Arnold doesn't really shoot a live alligator in the film, special
>>effects were used.
>>3. Even before Arn catches up with the parachute, he hangs from a plane
>>door and barely misses a flaming jet engine. Chances are very thin for
>>a person trying to do this.
>
>> My point is this, much of film making is creating an alternate,
>>hightened reality. Sometimes action films bend the rules of physics to
>>give you a little titilation, since we have to deal with the laws of
>>physics all our lives in the real world. Oh sure I've seen a few films
>>that made me roll my eyes and groan, but every once in a while it's fun
>>to give yourself over to the convension of a film and not cloud your
>>thoughts with notions of "air resistance" and such.
>>Goodnight, AIR RESISTANCE ?
>
>>Then again, that's just my opinion - I'm seldom wrong.
>>Gravyman.
>>
>
>
>scene was feasible. From what I've seen (and I haven't seen the movie yet) The
>freefall scene looks fairly well done. Only problem is, the clips I've seen
>from this particular scene go like this. Arnold hangs on side of plane. Arnold
>tries to grab parachute, but parachute eludes Arnold. Arnold falls past
>flaming engine (ouch), Arnold catches up to parachute but winds up getting
>entangled in parachute (kiss your ass good bye). Arnold lands, parachute
>fully deployed, on a car. Arnold obviously untangles himself and I would sure
>like to see how!
He's only untangling the first chute so he can get rid of it and
deploy the emergency chute.
--
--
=================
can...@netcom.com
Doug Tricarico
In article <4qmst6$i...@news.internetmci.com>, 211...@mcimail.com (Lukas Bradley) writes:
|> >> I haven't seen anybody question this yet. Certainly impossible if
|> >> about whether air resistance makes enough of a difference to make
|> >> it possible.
|>
|> >Does this remind anyone else of the scene in Goldeneye where Bond catches
|> >up with the falling airplane?
|>
|>
|> Lukas
Probably has something to do with terminal velocity (no, not the awful
Chuckie Sheen flick) and who gets to that speed first.
Victor Eijkhout
In article <01bb6217.f6d8e500$c82db5cc@owillis> "Oliver Willis" <owi...@emi.net> writes:
> > I haven't seen anybody question this yet. Certainly impossible if
> > you ignore air resistance. I look forward to a nice long thread
> > about whether air resistance makes enough of a difference to make
> > it possible.
If you ignore air resistance there is not much point to a
parachute, is there ?
> Does this remind anyone else of the scene in Goldeneye where Bond catches
> up with the falling airplane?
Goldeneye? Wasn't the chase with/without parachute &c in a Roger Moore
movie?
Vic...@jaws.I.believe
--
405 Hilgard Ave ................................. `We are in danger of getting
Department of Mathematics, UCLA ............. government by the clueless, over
Los Angeles CA 90024 ................. a place they've never been, using means
phone: +1 310 825 2173 / 9036 ....... they don't posesess' [John Perry Barlow]
http://www.math.ucla.edu/~eijkhout/
Mike Elliott
211...@mcimail.com (Lukas Bradley) wrote:
>>> I haven't seen anybody question this yet. Certainly impossible if
>>> you ignore air resistance. I look forward to a nice long thread
>>> about whether air resistance makes enough of a difference to make
>>> it possible.
>>Does this remind anyone else of the scene in Goldeneye where Bond catches
>>up with the falling airplane?
>Actually, that was one of the more believable things in the movie.
Huh? A falling human body which was never designed for flying catching
up to an object designed to slip though the air with as little
resistance as possible? "One of the more belivable things in the
movie"?!? There was /nothing/ believeable in that piece of tripe. This
was one of the two most outstanding examples (Broken Arrow is the
other) of films written by, directed by and produced by people who
have absolutely no idea how things work. Geez, these guys may be great
framing a scene but they probably have no idea how a light switch
works.
Try posting the question to any of the rec.aviation newsgroups.
Lukas Bradley
>>Actually, that was one of the more believable things in the movie.
>Huh? A falling human body which was never designed for flying catching
>up to an object designed to slip though the air with as little
>resistance as possible? "One of the more belivable things in the
Him catching the chute is very possible.
I think there was a 5 to 10 second pause from when Arnold dropped the chute to
releasing from the door. The chute had leg and arm harnesses that were
tumbling and offering resistance (this wasn't designed to slip through the
air). If the jet was at 35k to 40k feet when he released, he could go into a
straight dive (which he did) and catch up to a tumbling chute in less than 20
seconds. That would give him around 25 seconds to get the chute on and be in
safe shape.
I had an instructor jump out 5 seconds after me and catch up *fast*. Then
again, I am not a tumbling parachute.
These are my approximations and I have not been skydiving long.
Here is what is not so believeable.
Assumed : the jet was moving at about 40k feet and at about 400 miles per
hour.
(1) At that speed, *no one* could have held onto the door.
(2) If the jet were turned around and aimed at the parachuter, it would be a
lot safter to cut away and use your reserve than to face the jet.
(3) If my catching the chute scenario is even close to accurate, then the jet
would have *never* been able to get that low, that quickly, by circling
around, to hit him.
Lukas Bradley
>
>>I think there was a 5 to 10 second pause from when Arnold dropped the chute to
>>releasing from the door.
>I saw Eraser on Friday, the day it was released. Afterwards I
>wondered how long between when Arnie dropped the parachute and when
>he let go of the jet. My estimate was 20 seconds.
>However Siskel and Ebert showed this segment when they reviewed
>the film. I started counting steamboats. I counted 12 steamboats.
If it were 12 seconds, I still think he could catch it. 20.....I don't
know....
Cathy Byland
: This is a blatant ripoff of the Bond film, Moonraker, where Bond was
: push out of a jet by Jaws and had to grab a parachute on the way down.
: The scene was done by a real stuntman with none of this computer
: generated crap from this Arnold film. ... When will this guy stop
: ripping off the Bond films???????... So to answer your question, It
: has been done before and much better.
Or how about in _Drop Zone_, when they did it with TWO people? Or in _Point
Break_ (in one of the few non-surfing scenes) when Keanu and Patrick are
battling it out?
I don't think it was ripping anything off. Jumping out of an airplane w/
no parachute is a compelling idea, and it's been used successfully in at
least four movies (that I can think of). If you look at any action movie,
you will find similarities to many other action movies. People get shot,
the good guy gets hurt during the course of the action, people run around
chasing each other. People blow things up (Does this mean that _Eraser_
was ripping off _Speed_?). There are no original concepts. It's how you
use the concept that makes it original.
There's usually a thread going on about how Tarantino is always being
ripped off--but if you think about it, the contents of Tarantinos movies
aren't original at all. I read a list somewhere of items in much older
movies that "inspired" many of the plot elements of Quentin's movies. BUT
Tarantino presents his concepts in a refreshingly original way.
Cathy
Matt Martinez
> Probably has something to do with terminal velocity (no, not the awful
> Chuckie Sheen flick) and who gets to that speed first.
>
You have to admit, though, it was better than DROP ZONE (or that awful
film the boys at MST3K watched, called THE SKYDIVERS).
Mitch
} object will be more affected by air resistance than a heavier, denser body.
} If a person in freefall assumes a vertical position, they will fall much
} faster than if in a horizontal position. It's like comparing an apple to
} a feather, which one will fall faster. Yes, it is possible.
This is correct.
Will Hartung
r...@netcom.com (Robert Dorsett) writes:
>In article <4qh2or$s...@melon.myna.com> JBA...@myna.com (JBA) writes:
>>
>>This is a blatant ripoff of the Bond film, Moonraker, where Bond was
>>push out of a jet by Jaws and had to grab a parachute on the way down.
>>The scene was done by a real stuntman with none of this computer
>>generated crap from this Arnold film. ... When will this guy stop
>>ripping off the Bond films???????... So to answer your question, It
>>has been done before and much better.
>The Moonraker bit had already been ripped off once in that Patrick Swayze
>heist film, in which he (parachute-less) was rescued by the female
>love interest. I'm sure it's been done elsewhere.
Also, Arnie had a much more difficult time in Eraser. All these other
folks had to do was catch the chute, Arnie had to deal with marauding
airplane pilots, less-than-yielding car roofs, and to top it all off,
he had to deal with charming, smart alecky children at the very end.
I thought it was a great scene.
--
Will Hartung - Rancho Santa Margarita. It's a dry heat. vfr...@netcom.com
1990 VFR750 - VFR=Very Red "Ho, HaHa, Dodge, Parry, Spin, HA! THRUST!"
1993 Explorer - Cage? Hell, it's a prison. -D. Duck
macfady...@gmail.com
> > This is a blatant ripoff of the Bond film, Moonraker, where Bond was
> > push out of a jet by Jaws and had to grab a parachute on the way down.
> > The scene was done by a real stuntman with none of this computer
> > generated crap from this Arnold film. ... When will this guy stop
> > ripping off the Bond films???????... So to answer your question, It
> > has been done before and much better.
> >
>
> Wars rip-off known as MOONRAKER (admit it, MOONRAKER never would have
> been made if Star Wars hadn't come around, and I'm sure Fleming's
> original novel didn't have that laser fight crap), I don't mind if they
> borrowed that scene. True, it may have been one of the best Bond
> openings in history, but they could have made the rest of the movie a
> whole hell of a lot better!
>
>
> Matt
>
> This is my anti-sig file.
If anyone made remarks like yours in a bar I would walk out immediately. I would quite possibly leave town or even leave your country. And I'm sure you'd love that. But really, they are comments which are culturally on a par with the worst kind of excrement that I would literally retch in your company. Please don't mention Flemming or any other novelist - even Archie comics, because they are at least two cultural levels above Eraser and your execrable comparison.