K-Pax Question (Spoiler)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Goldfinger
Prot in that couple of days and how did he get out of the hospital?
Arthur Lipscomb
>
> The film doesn't explain Prot's disappeance to North, does it? Where was
> Prot in that couple of days and how did he get out of the hospital?
It is explained. There are two possible options. Either Prot was an
alien and he used alien technology to leave or Prot was a human and he
devised a way to slip out/hide that the staff was unaware of. It's up
to you to decide for yourself which is true.
Goldfinger
"Arthur Lipscomb" <aalip...@ucdavis.edu> wrote in message
news:3CB72983...@ucdavis.edu...
> It is explained. There are two possible options. Either Prot was an
> alien and he used alien technology to leave or Prot was a human and he
> devised a way to slip out/hide that the staff was unaware of. It's up
> to you to decide for yourself which is true.
The filme pretty much rules out the possibility that Prot is an alien by
showing that he didn't leave earth in the end.
Mike and Dorcie
The film pretty much rules out the possibility that Prot is human due to the
fact to the things he can see and the vast knowledge that he would not have
been able to know if he were human.
Also, as for the body being there in the end, it seemed pretty obvious that
the alien just inhabited the body when the human tried to kill himself.
When Prot left it all that was left was a vegetable.
Dorcie
IceBlast
"Mike and Dorcie" <miken...@mindspring.com> wrote
> The film pretty much rules out the possibility that Prot is human due to
the
> fact to the things he can see and the vast knowledge that he would not
have
> been able to know if he were human.
>
> Also, as for the body being there in the end, it seemed pretty obvious
that
> the alien just inhabited the body when the human tried to kill himself.
> When Prot left it all that was left was a vegetable.
Much agreed. Also, don't forget the video camera monitoring Prots room
mysteriously going out right when he is set to leave.
IceBlast
notjustjay
> The film doesn't explain Prot's disappeance to North, does it? Where was
> Prot in that couple of days and how did he get out of the hospital?
In the book, there is some discussion over a storage room (in the
basement? I don't remember) where a few containers were mysteriously
moved. Prot could have hidden in/behind them for a few days. This
doesn't seem to carry over into the movie.
The movie keeps everything as ambigious as possible, it would seem.
There's evidence to support either theory.
-
jay ("x" --> "_" to email)
Mars
alien by
> showing that he didn't leave earth in the end.
Or he just went off and left the "shell" of his drowned friend (which
he'd been inhabiting for the duration, out of some sort of affection
or for whatever reason...)Thus the "now that you've found Robert
Porter take good care of him" I got the impression he was just
"walking" "Pete" to the hospital...
Papa Lazarou
> >
> > > It is explained. There are two possible options. Either Prot was an
> > > alien and he used alien technology to leave or Prot was a human and he
> > > devised a way to slip out/hide that the staff was unaware of. It's up
> > > to you to decide for yourself which is true.
> >
> > The filme pretty much rules out the possibility that Prot is an alien by
> > showing that he didn't leave earth in the end.
>
> patient (I forget his name) while on Earth. I know, not a very nice thing
> to do, :-) but on the other hand the patient was catatonic, pretty much
a
> vegetable.
>
> The movie's ambiguity is still intact. :-)
What about the little smile Porter gives in the wheelchair (slight Spacey
mouth
movement to let us know he may be ok?) that isn't in the alternate ending ?
Arthur Lipscomb
>
> > on 12 Apr 2002 22:14:50 GMT, notjustjay wrote
> > <a97m8q$qs1$1...@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
> >
> > The movie keeps everything as ambigious as possible, it
> > would seem. There's evidence to support either theory.
>
> cosmological things he knew if he was a human, then. The movie gives us no
> evidence that Robert Porter might know these types of things. At that
> point, it became a movie that wants to be vague to its inhabitants, but has
> already told the audience the true story.
The movie established that Robert Porter was interested in astronomy
long before Prot came to the surface. And his psychiatrist made a point
of saying some people are idot savants who can do amazing mental feats
while still being mentally disturbed.
Mike and Dorcie
Humans can *not* see the things this guy could see. It is physically impossible
for us to do so. This movie was not ambiguous at all.
Dorcie
Arthur Lipscomb
So are you saying Robert Porter was not human? Were Robert Porter's
parents also from another planet, his entire ancestral line? And why
didn't the alien return to his home planet like he claimed? Only one
person went missing at the end, and it wasn't Robert Porter, he
remained. *If* there are no aliens, then obvious, there was at least
one human who *could* see what that guy saw.
Deborah Proctor
"Goldfinger" <goldfin...@home.com> wrote in message
news:x8Gt8.128488$z9.1...@news.easynews.com...
Sure he did. He took the woman's body and left. Remember only he knew
about the star system... If you look at the deleted scenes it kinda says
he's an alien.
Deborah Proctor
marask...@earthlink.net
Deborah Proctor
"Mike and Dorcie" <miken...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3CB73459...@mindspring.com...
Remember he comes to earth inhabiting the man's body while he was trying to
commit suicide by drowning and was lost for five years. The psychiatrist
then finds out who the human was and takes care of him.
Deborah Proctor
marask...@earthlink.net
Goldfinger
<marask...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Remember he comes to earth inhabiting the man's body while he was trying to
>commit suicide by drowning and was lost for five years. The psychiatrist
>then finds out who the human was and takes care of him.
The one big draw back of this conclusion is in what form does K Paxian
exist? To be able to inhibit a human body, K Paxian must be in
spiritual or energy form, is this possible?
noya
>exist? To be able to inhibit a human body, K Paxian must be in
>spiritual or energy form, is this possible?
You're new to science-fiction aren't you.
Michael Alan Chary
mikah <mi...@nospam4me.com> wrote:
>> on 12 Apr 2002 22:14:50 GMT, notjustjay wrote
>> <a97m8q$qs1$1...@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
>>
>> would seem. There's evidence to support either theory.
>
>cosmological things he knew if he was a human, then. The movie gives us no
>evidence that Robert Porter might know these types of things. At that
>point, it became a movie that wants to be vague to its inhabitants, but has
>already told the audience the true story.
>
The book is even worse about this stuff, because prot can see light
outside the visible spectrum.
--
Mike Chary, Court Philosopher and Barbarian, DNRC
"I bought the Star Trek chess set and the Civil War chess set. Now I have
the South fight the Klingons." -- Dave Spensley
"Ipsa scientia potestas est." - Roger Bacon
Mike and Dorcie
> In article <nv7fbusbmjh07oue7...@4ax.com>,
> mikah <mi...@nospam4me.com> wrote:
> >> on 12 Apr 2002 22:14:50 GMT, notjustjay wrote
> >> <a97m8q$qs1$1...@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
> >>
> >> The movie keeps everything as ambigious as possible, it
> >> would seem. There's evidence to support either theory.
> >
> >I'd love to hear the evidence for how Pro knew the astronomical /
> >cosmological things he knew if he was a human, then. The movie gives us no
> >evidence that Robert Porter might know these types of things. At that
> >point, it became a movie that wants to be vague to its inhabitants, but has
> >already told the audience the true story.
> >
>
> The book is even worse about this stuff, because prot can see light
> outside the visible spectrum.
> --
He can in the movie as well.
Dorcie
Arthur Lipscomb
>
> > on Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:55:34 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb wrote
> > <3CB7D666...@ucdavis.edu>
> >
> > So are you saying Robert Porter was not human?
>
> wasn't human.
That wasn't what I was addressing. I agree if Prot was an alien, he was
an alien inhabiting a *human* body. Whatever abnormal capabilities that
body may have possessed, it was still human. Prot didn't acknowledge
this fact. He didn't say he was an alien inhabiting a human body, the
body of Robert Porter. He said he *was* an alien, who looks like that
merely because he's on Earth.
>
> > Were Robert Porter's parents also from another planet,
> > his entire ancestral line?
>
> Maybe the answer above will help you with this one. Robert Porter was
> human. Proc, who inhabited his body, was not. Sure seemed to have access
> to some of Proc's horrifying memories, though.
>
> > And why didn't the alien return to his home planet like
> > he claimed?
>
> But he did.
>
> > Only one person went missing at the end, and it wasn't
> > Robert Porter, he remained.
>
> Any idea how that one person went missing? And further, the Robert Porter
> that remained was the shell. Of course the movies tries to give us an out
> by saying that the guy just have a psychotic episode tied to the date of
> his previous significant event, and it left him comatose.
>
> > *If* there are no aliens, then obvious, there was at least
> > one human who *could* see what that guy saw.
>
> According to the events in the movie, there are aliens. I think everyone
> who feels the movie is ambiguous should re-watch the scene where Prot meets
> with the astronomers. Even for allowing for an idiot savant Robert Porter,
> I see no evidence Prot is human. Idiot savants still need information.
> Robert simply had no access to the information necessary to come to the
> conclusions he did.
The fact that he did have the answers disproves that statement. Not
every unexplainable occurrence in the world *must* be the result of
aliens or magic.
But Prot did. It would be like an Idiot Savant
> guessing what I have under my bed without knowing me. No amount of genius
> or ability to see things in a different way would allow anyone to answer
> the question with the degree of confidence Prot exhibits in that scene.
What does his confidence have to do with anything. Insane asylums are
probably full of people who are confident they are aliens.
>
> I accept that the book tried to make it ambiguous, and that is ultimately
> what the story is about. I accept that. But when I watch the movie that
> was released, it isn't ambiguous to me.
I never said Prot wasn't an alien. I said the movie allows for each
person to reach their own conclusion.
The conclusion you reached is not the only conclusion possible; and is
not the conclusion all others are required to reach.
Deborah Proctor
> mikah wrote:
> >
> > > on Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:55:34 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb wrote
> > > <3CB7D666...@ucdavis.edu>
> > >
> > > So are you saying Robert Porter was not human?
> >
> > No, we're saying Proc, who inhabited a comatose Robert Porter's body,
> > wasn't human.
>
> That wasn't what I was addressing. I agree if Prot was an alien, he was
> an alien inhabiting a *human* body. Whatever abnormal capabilities that
> body may have possessed, it was still human. Prot didn't acknowledge
> this fact. He didn't say he was an alien inhabiting a human body, the
> body of Robert Porter.
Yes he did... He stated when he stated that Porter was found after five
years after it was assumed he committed suicide by drowning.
Deborah Proctor
marask...@earthlink.net
Bill Anderson
Deborah Proctor wrote:
Flew coast to coast a couple of weeks ago sitting next to a kid who watched
the inflight movie -- K-Pax. I didn't rent the headphones, but I glanced at
the picture intermittently. When the credits rolled and the kid took off his
headset, I asked him if Spacey was really an alien. He shook his head no.
Then I noticed a final scene after the credits in which Jeff Bridges was
standing in his back yard, looking at the sky.
So tell me -- was Spacey an alien? Was he hosting an alien? Was the ending
intentionally ambiguous? Don't make me rent this -- please. I mean, I still
haven't decided whether Arnold was on Mars or just having a brain aneurysm, so
I really don't need more uncertainty in my life.....
Bill Anderson
--
I am the Great Favog
Dennis Groome
--
-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_...@hotmail.com
"Deborah Proctor" <marask...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:0d2u8.5412$3z3.5...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > That wasn't what I was addressing. I agree if Prot was an alien, he was
> > an alien inhabiting a *human* body. Whatever abnormal capabilities that
> > body may have possessed, it was still human. Prot didn't acknowledge
> > this fact. He didn't say he was an alien inhabiting a human body, the
> > body of Robert Porter.
>
> Yes he did... He stated when he stated that Porter was found after five
> years after it was assumed he committed suicide by drowning.
odd, not once did I ever hear Prot comment that Robert Porter has been found
after 5 years. the closest he came is "Now that you've found Robert, please
take good care of him" when he was shown the picture in the yearbook. How
does this confirm he's human?
Thad Floryan
| Michael Alan Chary wrote:
| > [...]
| > The book is even worse about this stuff, because prot can see light
| > outside the visible spectrum.
| > --
|
| He can in the movie as well.
The statement was made (in the movie) by Dr. Chakraborty that Prot could
see into the ultra-violet part of the spectrum.
Strange, even for an alien entity inhabiting a human host, given the limits
of a human eyeball's rods and cones and other supporting statements that
Prot's body was human in every respect.
Steve Irving
"Bill Anderson" <billand...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3CB8B6D1...@yahoo.com...
>
>
>
> Flew coast to coast a couple of weeks ago sitting next to a kid who
watched
> the inflight movie -- K-Pax. I didn't rent the headphones, but I glanced
at
> the picture intermittently. When the credits rolled and the kid took off
his
> headset, I asked him if Spacey was really an alien. He shook his head no.
> Then I noticed a final scene after the credits in which Jeff Bridges was
> standing in his back yard, looking at the sky.
>
> So tell me -- was Spacey an alien? Was he hosting an alien? Was the
ending
> intentionally ambiguous? Don't make me rent this -- please. I mean, I
still
> haven't decided whether Arnold was on Mars or just having a brain
aneurysm, so
> I really don't need more uncertainty in my life.....
Robert Porter was a human hosting an alien named Prot. Prot stated several
times in the movie that when her returned to K-Pax that he could only take
one person with him.........he took Bess, and left Robert Porter behind. He
told Jeff Bridges' character to take good care of Robert.
JoeS
That is, assuming an alien's perception is bounded by the host's physical
limitations. If you buy the "he's an alien" line, there are a few things that
Porter's body was physically unable to do that "Prot" did.
Joe
Deborah Proctor
"Dennis Groome" <NOSPAM...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Tf3u8.28357$GG1.1...@news2.east.cox.net...
Remember it was coming up on the five year anniversary of the Porter family
murder.
Deborah Proctor
marask...@earthlink.net
Dennis Groome
--
-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_...@hotmail.com
"Deborah Proctor" <marask...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Nz5u8.5960$L1.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
which still doesn't make his human _or_ an alien. it also happens to be the
5 year anniversary of then Prot arrived on Earth, so it could be when his
travel visa (or the K-PAXian equivalent thereof) expires and his trip home
is planned.
Goldfinger
Matter of fact, I don't quit like sci fi. Anyway, if you assume Prot
is an alien, how can Porter's body be preserved after almost 5 years?
How can you explain the sprinker incident?
Deborah Proctor
The sprinkler incident was for the psychiatrist's benefit.... It helped him
to find out who Porter was.
Deborah Proctor
marask...@earthlink.net
Russell Watson
wrote:
Repressed memory. Prot was cool, unflappable, but the human brain
temporarily retook control of the body when confronted with a image
that reminded him of the murders.
'97 FLSTF
To reply by e-mail, remove nospam from address.
T Berk
>
> mikah wrote:
> >
> > > on Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:55:34 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb wrote
> > > <3CB7D666...@ucdavis.edu>
> > >
> > > So are you saying Robert Porter was not human?
> >
> > No, we're saying Proc, who inhabited a comatose Robert Porter's body,
> > wasn't human.
>
> That wasn't what I was addressing. I agree if Prot was an alien, he was
> an alien inhabiting a *human* body. Whatever abnormal capabilities that
> body may have possessed, it was still human. Prot didn't acknowledge
> this fact. He didn't say he was an alien inhabiting a human body, the
> body of Robert Porter. He said he *was* an alien, who looks like that
> merely because he's on Earth.
Well, to be on Earth he inhabited a human body.
TBerk
noya
It's been awhile since I saw the movie, but if I recall Prot to me was
an alien inhabiting a human body. The human body was kept alive by
breathing and eating as we saw in the movie. I believe Prot 'jumped'
in just before Porter actually died. There is a scene at near the end
which shows Porter walking into a lake, probably with the intention of
drowning himself. He almost succeeded but just before he died Prot
jumped in, however brain damage (which often happens for near drown
victims) had already set in. Prot was able to control his mind and
body with his own energy. Obviously when Prot leaves the body at the
end of the movie, we are left with the Porter that was 'saved'.
In order for Prot to properly investigate the planet he needed a human
body. Prot was not only a 'nice guy' alien (didn't really want to
steal an innocent humans life), but was also aware of the 'prime
directive' (as seen on Star Treck!). He could not jump into a living
person which could somehow risk affecting the future of mankind if
this Porter was going to accomplish something important in his life.
So he jumped in at just the right time - into someone that was seconds
from dying anyways. And of course since although he was a 'vegetable'
controlled by alien energy, he still had memories of his human life
(his brain was still alive). This explains the sprinkler incident. It
can be assumed that as good as Prot was at controlling Porters mind,
there were gaps in it's abilities. It would be silly to assume that
Prot understood the human body 100% and was fully able to exercise
control.
I'm glad you didn't take my comment about you being new to
science-fiction as an insult. The point was that with science-fiction
anything is possible - no matter how improbable.
Your question, "to be able to inhibit a human body, K Paxian must be
in spiritual or energy form, is this possible?"
Why not?
Phil Garner
"T Berk" <tb...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3CB90AE0...@mindspring.com...
> Well, to be on Earth he inhabited a human body.
>
>
> TBerk
Starman?!
Maxed Out
"Mike and Dorcie" <miken...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3CB7BF14...@mindspring.com...
Hi Dorcie!
Bill
Mike and Dorcie
> "Mike and Dorcie" <miken...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3CB7BF14...@mindspring.com...
> > Arthur Lipscomb wrote:
> >
> > > mikah wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > on 12 Apr 2002 22:14:50 GMT, notjustjay wrote
> > > > > <a97m8q$qs1$1...@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
> > > > >
> > > > > The movie keeps everything as ambigious as possible, it
> > > > > would seem. There's evidence to support either theory.
> > > >
>
<snip>
>
> > Humans can *not* see the things this guy could see. It is physically
> impossible
> > for us to do so. This movie was not ambiguous at all.
> >
> >
> > Dorcie
> >
>
> Hi Dorcie!
>
> Bill
Hey Bill! Haven't read a post from you in a while.
Dorcie
Silverlock
<miken...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Arthur Lipscomb wrote:
>
>> mikah wrote:
>> >
>> > > on 12 Apr 2002 22:14:50 GMT, notjustjay wrote
>> > > <a97m8q$qs1$1...@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
>> > >
>> > > The movie keeps everything as ambigious as possible, it
>> > > would seem. There's evidence to support either theory.
>> >
>> > I'd love to hear the evidence for how Pro knew the astronomical /
>> > cosmological things he knew if he was a human, then. The movie gives us no
>> > evidence that Robert Porter might know these types of things. At that
>> > point, it became a movie that wants to be vague to its inhabitants, but has
>> > already told the audience the true story.
>>
>> The movie established that Robert Porter was interested in astronomy
>> long before Prot came to the surface. And his psychiatrist made a point
>> of saying some people are idot savants who can do amazing mental feats
>> while still being mentally disturbed.
>
>Humans can *not* see the things this guy could see. It is physically impossible
>for us to do so. This movie was not ambiguous at all.
>
>
>Dorcie
>
Humans evolve. Maybe he was a new positive mutation.
--
Silverlock, ICQ 474725,
Household Pests? The SW-404 'SpitFire' APRL cleansing system
will remove them, we Guarantee IT! Not responsible for damage
to persons or structures from use of this product.
Dial 1-800-FRY-THEM for info and a home demonstration.
Mike and Dorcie
> On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:16:04 -0400, Mike and Dorcie
> <miken...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >Arthur Lipscomb wrote:
> >
> >> mikah wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > on 12 Apr 2002 22:14:50 GMT, notjustjay wrote
> >> > > <a97m8q$qs1$1...@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
> >> > >
> >> > > The movie keeps everything as ambigious as possible, it
> >> > > would seem. There's evidence to support either theory.
> >> >
> >> > I'd love to hear the evidence for how Pro knew the astronomical /
> >> > cosmological things he knew if he was a human, then. The movie gives us no
> >> > evidence that Robert Porter might know these types of things. At that
> >> > point, it became a movie that wants to be vague to its inhabitants, but has
> >> > already told the audience the true story.
> >>
> >> The movie established that Robert Porter was interested in astronomy
> >> long before Prot came to the surface. And his psychiatrist made a point
> >> of saying some people are idot savants who can do amazing mental feats
> >> while still being mentally disturbed.
> >
> >Humans can *not* see the things this guy could see. It is physically impossible
> >for us to do so. This movie was not ambiguous at all.
> >
> >
> >Dorcie
> >
>
> Humans evolve. Maybe he was a new positive mutation.
> --
>
LOL
Would it were so. Then maybe it would have been a better film by having all the
crazies turn into X-Men.
Dorcie
azz...@olypen.com
> >
> > The movie's ambiguity is still intact. :-)
>
> What about the little smile Porter gives in the wheelchair (slight Spacey
> mouth
> movement to let us know he may be ok?) that isn't in the alternate ending ?
Yes! I thought the smile was so obvious that catatonia was out of the
question. He was aware.
T Berk
LOL!
TBerk
Harry Benkiel
On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:55:34 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<aalip...@ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>Mike and Dorcie wrote:
>>
>> Arthur Lipscomb wrote:
>>
>> > mikah wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > on 12 Apr 2002 22:14:50 GMT, notjustjay wrote
>> > > > <a97m8q$qs1$1...@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
>> > > >
>> > > > The movie keeps everything as ambigious as possible, it
>> > > > would seem. There's evidence to support either theory.
>> > >
>> > > I'd love to hear the evidence for how Pro knew the astronomical /
>> > > cosmological things he knew if he was a human, then. The movie gives us no
>> > > evidence that Robert Porter might know these types of things. At that
>> > > point, it became a movie that wants to be vague to its inhabitants, but has
>> > > already told the audience the true story.
>> >
>> > The movie established that Robert Porter was interested in astronomy
>> > long before Prot came to the surface. And his psychiatrist made a point
>> > of saying some people are idot savants who can do amazing mental feats
>> > while still being mentally disturbed.
>>
>> Humans can *not* see the things this guy could see. It is physically impossible
>> for us to do so. This movie was not ambiguous at all.
>>
>> Dorcie
>
>
>So are you saying Robert Porter was not human? Were Robert Porter's
>parents also from another planet, his entire ancestral line? And why
>didn't the alien return to his home planet like he claimed? Only one
>person went missing at the end, and it wasn't Robert Porter, he
>remained. *If* there are no aliens, then obvious, there was at least
>one human who *could* see what that guy saw.
It's silly for all of you to be certain of your so-called facts. The
movie deliberately tried to be ambiguous, and anyone who favors either
side of the argument will find plenty of ammunition to support their
claim. Personally, I believe Prot was an alien who inhabited his
friend's mind after he sufferred a traumatic incident. But your
mileage might vary.
Interestingly, though, in the deleted scenes of the DVD, there is one
scene which unequivically proves Prot is an alien. Personally, I'm
glad they did delete it, because we couldn't have these heated
discussions. However, it's clear where the story writers were
leaning. And I do believe that Prot's ability to see so far off the
normal human scale of vision is just too strange a coincidence. But
it still doesn't consitute proof.
Cheers, Harry
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Willo
Usenet Autoresponder <autorespo...@usenet.org> wrote:
> What the filmmakers wanted was to have it both ways. It's not a
> mystery, it's just a story that doesn't make any sense as written.
Read Gene Brewers book. It's got a few improvements (including Prot
actually changing Brewer's life) and a improved ending. Don't you hate
the stories that make you think and debate. My friends and I saw the
movie together, and everyone thought it was pretty good (they're pretty
easy to please. I was amazed by the score of this film). We had a long
debate over weather Prot was an alien or not.
--
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