>Was this a junior or senior corps?
They were a Senior corps. Their last year in competition was 1956. They were
also known as the Lenape Lancers.
There were a number of prominent drum corps people who were members of this
great corps. Hall of Famer Walter Kelly, Drum Major who later became their
Drill Instructor and a chief judge for DCA; Hall of Famer Jim Donnelly who was
one of their first horn instructors and arrangers who was followed by Hall of
Famer George Rodriguez, who was followed by Hall of Famer Bill Hayes. Joe
Mallon was a drummer with OLG and later became their drum instructor and
arranger, who should also be a Hall of Famer. Hall of Famer Gus Wilke played
with OLG til he enlisted in the Marine corps. Other prominent players with OLG
that went on to play in other great Senior corps would be Eddie Barry, solo
soprano and John Altamura, french horn who bother went on to fame with the
Caballeros.
Here's a little trivia for you. Who was the last New Jersey drum corps to beat
the Hawthorne Caballeros? Where was it? And what year was it?
Michael T. Siglow
Madonna 1953-64
Skyliners Nov. 11, 1964-70,75-78,92
Skyliners Alumni Corps Nov. 1993 til ?
Archer-Epler Musketeers 97-98
"It's not what a person accomplishes in life that matters,
it's what a person overcomes, that's what counts."
Obviously the New Jersey drum corps to defeat the Caballeros was the Harrison
Bushwackers in 1997 (as well as during the 80's). The question should have
read,
Prior to the Bushwackers (who are and were a fine drum corps in their own
right) who was the last New Jersey drum corps to defeat the Caballeros in field
competition? What year did this occur? and Where did the competition take
place?
This one is for the real "Old-Timers" (and I was use the term with deep
respect.
>Here's a little trivia for you. Who was the last New Jersey drum corps to beat
>the Hawthorne Caballeros? Where was it? And what year was it?
I don't know where or when, but it has to be the Bushwackers.
>Prior to the Bushwackers (who are and were a fine drum corps in their own
>right) who was the last New Jersey drum corps to defeat the Caballeros in field
>competition? What year did this occur? and Where did the competition take
>place?
I'll say the Sunrisers. The Sunrisers beat Hawthorne in the 1989 Championship
when they were from Edison, NJ.
In 1947, Doremus won the Al Championship, In NYC. In 1948,the Jesrsey
Joes,from Riverside, NJ won. This was in Miami.
Could one of these be the answer???
mario
PS I WASN'T there!!!!!!!!!!!
I liked the responses of the Amboy Dukes, etc. That brought back memories.
Jim Dockery
SkyAlumni wrote in message <19981106152040...@ng58.aol.com>...
>OOOPPPPSSSS!!!!!!
>
>Obviously the New Jersey drum corps to defeat the Caballeros was the
Harrison
>Bushwackers in 1997 (as well as during the 80's). The question should have
>read,
>
>Prior to the Bushwackers (who are and were a fine drum corps in their own
>right) who was the last New Jersey drum corps to defeat the Caballeros in
field
>competition? What year did this occur? and Where did the competition take
>place?
>
The correct answer is the Sunrisers. Being that Mike said that the REAL
oldtimers would know this, he probably forgot that the Sunrisers lived in
Edison, NJ from 1989-1992.
>.I still get the urge to travel those 3 miles
>to Lodi for a Sky rehearsal...but I know what would happen.
You would enter the Legion wide-eyed and immediately be greeted by Bucky who
would allow you to buy him a beer.
You would wander around from the horn to drum rehearsal rooms and wonder who
all those people were that were reading music as they were learning parts.
You would catch glimpses of super stars from days gone by ... adjusting their
back-brace or better yet ... their teeth.
You would stand in amazement duing ensemble as Drietzer's music forced any
available air out of the Post.
You would retire to the bar where Gus Wilke would relive your entire drum corps
career for you with his stories.
You would experience the same emotions John Glenn described in his return to
space some thirty years later.
You would go home ... and maybe never return again ... but more at peace with
yourself because of your brief visit.
Three miles - huh? I've got the toll ...
Andy Lisko
St. Raphael's/Bpt. PAL 58-68
NY Skyliners 69-81
And, Andy Lisko responded:
>
>You would enter the Legion wide-eyed and immediately be greeted by Bucky who
>would allow you to buy him a beer.
>
>You would wander around from the horn to drum rehearsal rooms and wonder who
>all those people were that were reading music as they were learning parts.
>
>You would catch glimpses of super stars from days gone by ... adjusting their
>back-brace or better yet ... their teeth.
>
>You would stand in amazement duing ensemble as Drietzer's music forced any
>available air out of the Post.
>
>You would retire to the bar where Gus Wilke would relive your entire drum
>corps
>career for you with his stories.
>
>You would experience the same emotions John Glenn described in his return to
>space some thirty years later.
>
>You would go home ... and maybe never return again ... but more at peace with
>yourself because of your brief visit.
>
>Three miles - huh? I've got the toll ...
Beautiful....except for the "...be at peace". In fact, that is exactly the
opposite of what you feel.
Rather, you will mercilessly re-animated by long
quiescent spiritual hormones comparable to a dose of musical Viagra. This tends
to make the drive home much more difficult--note how avoided the use of
"harder," though, in actuality, it is.
mario
>I don't know where or when, but it has to be the Bushwackers.
>
Well Glen,
As I previously amended my trivia question about the Buswackers to indicate
that they had defeated the Cabs as late as 1997, I question the Sunrisers as
truly being residents of New Jersey. True, they did call Edison, N.J. their
"home" for a brief period as well as North Bergen, N.J. (the same building that
we used for the GAS reunion) "home" as well, it becomes a semantical debate as
to whether or not these locales can actually be considered a "home". Perhaps
someone from the Sunrisers can clear this up. Did they still call themselves
the Long Island Sunrisers? Or did they change their name to the Edison
Sunrisers and then to the North Bergen Sunrisers? It is similar to the "home"
of our own New York Skyliners who, from 1966 called the Saldarini Post in Union
City, N.J. "home" for a number of years before moving to the Joseph Lane AL
Post in Lodi, N.J. and then another move to the AL Memorial Post in Garfield
where they have been calling that building "home" for the past how many years?
Or better yet, did the New York Giants change there name to the East Rutherford
Giants?
And as I recall, didn't the Bushwackers, when they had trouble finding a home
in N.J., resorted to blindfolding one of their snare drummers ("Fast" Frankie
Nash I believe was the one who was blindfolded at the behest of Eddie
Dioguardia) and playing "pin the tail on the donkey" with an Atlas of the
U.S.A. to find a home for the corps. They wound up sticking the pin on
Theomopolis, Wyoming. Was that in 1986? (I guess the Mayor was both estatic and
angry at the same time. Estatic to come to learn that his town was the home of
a World Champion. Angry to find that he would never see his town's World
Championship trophy <G>). They later found a home in Harrison, N.J.
The last New Jersey corps PRIOR to the Bushwackers, is the corps that is the
answer to the trivia question. I will give all who choose to guess til Monday
Nov. 9 at 12:00 noon. HINT: Brooklyn Mario has come the closest so far.
To restate the trivia question:
"Who was the last New Jersey Senior drum corps to defeat the Cabs in
competition PRIOR to the Bushwackers? In what year did this corps beat the
Cabs? And where did this competition take place?"
In article <19981107152251...@ng60.aol.com>, skya...@aol.com
(SkyAlumni) wrote:
>gl...@uspapermoney.com (Glen Johnson) wrote:
>
>
>>I don't know where or when, but it has to be the Bushwackers.
>>
>
>Well Glen,
>
>As I previously amended my trivia question about the Buswackers to indicate
>that they had defeated the Cabs as late as 1997, I question the Sunrisers as
>truly being residents of New Jersey. True, they did call Edison, N.J. their
>"home" for a brief period as well as North Bergen, N.J. (the same building that
>we used for the GAS reunion) "home" as well, it becomes a semantical debate as
>to whether or not these locales can actually be considered a "home". Perhaps
>someone from the Sunrisers can clear this up. Did they still call themselves
>the Long Island Sunrisers? Or did they change their name to the Edison
>Sunrisers and then to the North Bergen Sunrisers? It is similar to the "home"
>of our own New York Skyliners who, from 1966 called the Saldarini Post in Union
>City, N.J. "home" for a number of years before moving to the Joseph Lane AL
>Post in Lodi, N.J. and then another move to the AL Memorial Post in Garfield
>where they have been calling that building "home" for the past how many years?
All that is completely different from what Sun did. Sun physically moved to
NJ, announced themselves at every show as being from Edison, NJ, and DCA
records them for the period 1989-1992 as being from Edison, NJ. The corps
hasn't billed itself as "The Long Island Sunrisers" for many years, Mike. In
Sun's case, its not semantics, it was the real thing.
Now, if you want to talk semantics, we can talk about our OWN corps! The only
thing New York about the Skyliners is the name.
By calling a place "home", I wasn't referring to where the corps was hanging
out, I was referring to where they officially represented themselves to be
from, and in Sun's case, that was Edison, NJ for 4 years.
>The last New Jersey corps PRIOR to the Bushwackers, is the corps that is the
>answer to the trivia question. I will give all who choose to guess til Monday
>Nov. 9 at 12:00 noon. HINT: Brooklyn Mario has come the closest so far.
And the answer to that is the Sunrisers. Dem's the fax ma'am! :) Sun moved to
Edison, NJ just before the 1989 season, and if you'll check your 1998 DCA
Yearbook, you'll find the results of the 1989 Championship listed as follows:
1. Bushwackers, Harrison, NJ
2. Sunrisers, Edison, NJ
3. Caballeros, Hawthorne, NJ
And DCA records the Sunrisers as being from Edison, NJ for the 1990, 1991 and
1992 seasons.
So, I think if the corps physically moved to NJ (which they did), announced
themselves at shows as being from Edison, NJ (which they did), and DCA records
them as being from NJ (which they did), I'd say they were from NJ :)
If you still don't believe Sun was a NJ corps, just ask Brad at rehearsal next
weekend. After all, he was their drum major at the time.
> By the way is there still a Roosevelt Stadium?
Nope. Roosevelt Stadium was mowed down in 1981 I think. The last Dream was
held there in 1980. It was at Giants Stadium in 1981, and then Rutgers
University, I think, in 1982. And that was that.
Gee, you never know who's lurking on RAMD. 8-)
Larry G.
>rm...@aol.com (RMXN) wrote:
>
>>The corps was OUR LADY of GRACE LANCERS from Hoboken, New Jersey, also known
>as
>>the BAYWAY GRAYS. A prominent member of this corps was Gus Wilke, a current
>>member of the New York Skyliners Alumni and recent inductee to the World
>Drum
>>Corps Hall of Fame. If you have any questions my E-mail address is RMXN.
>>RMXN
>
>Was this a junior or senior corps?
>
>
Probably junior corps, based on Gus's current age.
Larry G.
>By the way is there still a Roosevelt Stadium?
Only in dreams and old Drum Corps News photos.....
Larry Girard, Jr.
>>the BAYWAY GRAYS. A prominent member of this corps was Gus Wilke, a current
>>member of the New York Skyliners Alumni and recent inductee to the World Drum
>>Corps Hall of Fame. If you have any questions my E-mail address is RMXN.
>>RMXN
>>
>>
>
>Gee, you never know who's lurking on RAMD. 8-)
>
>Larry G.
>
Gotta ask him what RMXN means.
>And the answer to that is the Sunrisers. Dem's the fax ma'am! :) Sun moved to
>
>Edison, NJ just before the 1989 season, and if you'll check your 1998 DCA
>Yearbook, you'll find the results of the 1989 Championship listed as follows:
>
>1. Bushwackers, Harrison, NJ
>2. Sunrisers, Edison, NJ
>3. Caballeros, Hawthorne, NJ
>
Thank you Glen. Your facts are correct and I won't argue with facts. I was
totally unaware of the fact that Sun had listed themselves as representing
Edison, N.J. (Not being facitious here but where in Edison, N.J. did they call
home? Was it a building that they rehearsed in or a parking lot they used
during the summer months? Again, not being factious with these questions)
>So, I think if the corps physically moved to NJ (which they did), announced
>themselves at shows as being from Edison, NJ (which they did), and DCA
>records
>them as being from NJ (which they did), I'd say they were from NJ :)
>
Agreed.
>If you still don't believe Sun was a NJ corps, just ask Brad at rehearsal
>next
>weekend. After all, he was their drum major at the time.
>
Glen, why would you suggest that? I believe you, no need to be so defensive
<G>. Besides, all I need Brad for is wave his arms and keep proper time. Oh,
yeah, and to hear how he's going to put Skyliner Alumni parade trophies on a
mantle next to his Sunriser throphies. <G> Hope his arms last longer then his
knees. <G>
> By the way is there still a Roosevelt Stadium?
>
Sorry, Roosevelt Stadium was plowed under to make room for a development of
townhouses known as "Society Hill". New Jersey City University also owns some
of that property and built their Football field there.
>Thank you Glen. Your facts are correct and I won't argue with facts. I was
>totally unaware of the fact that Sun had listed themselves as representing
>Edison, N.J. (Not being facitious here but where in Edison, N.J. did they call
>home? Was it a building that they rehearsed in or a parking lot they used
>during the summer months? Again, not being factious with these questions)
I don't know. In '89, I found out they had moved there because my brother
lives in the next town over, and he told me they were rehearsing there. I was
actually tempted to go down there and see if they'd HAVE me, as that was
within a couple years of me having left the Skyliners. But I don't know what
facilities they used there.
I imagine they moved back to NY to put their corps back together, because they
didn't field a corps in '93, and came out in '94 from Long Island.
>Glen, why would you suggest that? I believe you, no need to be so defensive
><G>. Besides, all I need Brad for is wave his arms and keep proper time. Oh,
>yeah, and to hear how he's going to put Skyliner Alumni parade trophies on a
>mantle next to his Sunriser throphies. <G> Hope his arms last longer then his
>knees. <G>
Who won that South Amboy parade?
Interesting. I didn't know that.
Does this football stadium actually occupy any of the territory on which the
stadium stood? Or is that all Society Hill?
There are a number of "Society Hill" developments in NJ, by the way. All built
by the same developer (Shant Hovnanian).
>Does this football stadium actually occupy any of the territory on which the
>stadium stood? Or is that all Society Hill?
>
The Football field occupies the area xcloser to route 440, just as you make the
right hand turn onto the road that used to lead to what used to take you the .2
of a mile to Roosevelt Stadium. The area that used to be the Stadium is taken
up by the "Society Hill" townhouses. And, yes, I believe that the developer was
Hovnanian.
>The last New Jersey corps PRIOR to the Bushwackers, is the corps that is the
>answer to the trivia question. I will give all who choose to guess til Monday
>Nov. 9 at 12:00 noon.
Now here is the CORRECT answer:
At a contest in Palmyra, N.J. in the summer of 1953 Our Lady of Grace from
Hoboken, N.J. (AKA the Bayway Grays, Lenape Lancers and Lincoln Park Lancers)
defeated the Hawthorne Caballeros. From that year until 1986 (a span of 33
years) the Hawthorne Caballeros were never beaten by another New Jersey based
Senior drum corps. In 1986 it was the Bushwackers who broke that string.
Sorry Glen, <G> (this is where it gets tricky <G>), the last New Jersey based
Senior drum corps to defeat the Hawthorne Caballeros was the Bushwackers in
1997. Yes, the last New Jersey based Senior drum corps to defeat the Hawthrone
Caballeros prior to the Bushwackers in 1997 were the Sunrisers, BUT, if you
read the trivia question again you will note the it reads, "The last New Jersey
corps PRIOR to the Bushwackers," NOT "The last New Jersey corps PRIOR to the
Bushwackers in 1997,". Since the Bushwackers were the FIRST New Jersey based
Senior corps to defeat the Hawthorne Caballeros in 1986, the CORRECT answer is
OLG from Hoboken, N.J. They also may have the distinction of being the ONLY CYO
sponsored Senior drum corps ever.
I also point out that OLG was the last Senior drum corps to come within .1 of a
point in defeating the Hwathorne Caballeros at the American Legion State
Championships which were held in Wildwood, N.J. that same year (1953). They
lost on a penalty for having two marching members missing that day. If those
two guys would have shown up and competed, and everything else remaining the
same, OLG would have been the AL State Champs that year.
>Sorry Glen, <G> (this is where it gets tricky <G>), the last New Jersey based
>Senior drum corps to defeat the Hawthorne Caballeros was the Bushwackers in
>1997. Yes, the last New Jersey based Senior drum corps to defeat the Hawthrone
>Caballeros prior to the Bushwackers in 1997 were the Sunrisers, BUT, if you
>read the trivia question again you will note the it reads, "The last New Jersey
>corps PRIOR to the Bushwackers," NOT "The last New Jersey corps PRIOR to the
>Bushwackers in 1997,". Since the Bushwackers were the FIRST New Jersey based
>Senior corps to defeat the Hawthorne Caballeros in 1986, the CORRECT answer is
>OLG from Hoboken, N.J. They also may have the distinction of being the ONLY CYO
>sponsored Senior drum corps ever.
GEEZ. Next time, ask a trivia question that doesn't require a math degree to
understand! :)
So, your question really was "What was the last NJ-based drum corps to beat
the Caballeros before the Bushwackers did?"
See, I can still be right though :) Semantically speaking, The Sunrisers DID
beat the Caballeros before the Bushwackers did. They just didn't beat the
Caballeros before the FIRST time the Bushwackers beat them. But actually, they
did, but they didn't because they weren't a NJ-based corps when they did it!
Hehehehehe!!
Somehow, I think Yogi Berra would understand this.
And to FURTHER drive everyone crazy with this ... MAYBE the correct answer is
the New York Skyliners in 1981. The Skyliners, under Bob Holton's watch,
became a New Jersey-based corporation. But I don't know if he did that in '81
when he became director, or if that happened later.
But anyway, the Skyliners today are definitely a New Jersey corps.
Leo Parry
Smith and Webber Hoboken NJ 64-65
Amvent Lancers WestNewyork NJ 66-68
St. Andrews Bridgemen NJ 69-76
Skyliners Alumni 98- ?
SkyAlumni wrote:
> gl...@uspapermoney.com (Glen Johnson) wrote:
>
> >Does this football stadium actually occupy any of the territory on which the
> >stadium stood? Or is that all Society Hill?
> >
>
> The Football field occupies the area xcloser to route 440, just as you make the
> right hand turn onto the road that used to lead to what used to take you the .2
> of a mile to Roosevelt Stadium. The area that used to be the Stadium is taken
> up by the "Society Hill" townhouses. And, yes, I believe that the developer was
> Hovnanian.
>
Glen Johnson wrote:
> In article <19981109124338...@ng58.aol.com>, skya...@aol.com (SkyAlumni) wrote:
>
>And to FURTHER drive everyone crazy with this ... MAYBE the correct answer is
>
>the New York Skyliners in 1981. The Skyliners, under Bob Holton's watch,
>became a New Jersey-based corporation. But I don't know if he did that in '81
>
>when he became director, or if that happened later.
>
>
Actually Glen, the corps became a NJ corporation in 1978 under the direction of
Johnny Grass - another year which saw Sky defeat Hawthorne.
Andy
>Actually Glen, the corps became a NJ corporation in 1978 under the direction
>of
>Johnny Grass - another year which saw Sky defeat Hawthorne.
>
This is a fact. I believe however that the name on file is "The New York
Skyliners Senior Drum and Bugle Corps". Say, anyone have a copy of the by-laws
and constitution of this corporation? The name of the corporation would be on
that document. A document that should be, by law, available to ALL members of
the Skyliners, lifetime or present population included.
Question: Who were the last two drum corps people to be removed from Roosevelt
Stadium in 1980 ... after the meeting ... standing somewhere on the field ...
drinking a six-pack ... wondering who was going to pick them up and bring them
to the party at Salderini ... just before the cranes came in to knock it down?
Oh my! Have I given too many hints? :-)
> The Union City Roosevelt Stadium is like
>it's little brother (another one with a lot of drumcorps history)
>
>
Ahhh ... who could ever forget "little" Rossevelt and the "free" show held by
Union City every 4th of July. Many of the greats appeared at "little"
Roosevelt over the years.
Andy
>Say, anyone have a copy of the by-laws
>and constitution of this corporation? The name of the corporation would be on
>that document. A document that should be, by law, available to ALL members of
>the Skyliners, lifetime or present population included.
Check with Jerry Mammolito. He may have a copy ... but I doubt it's the
original from 78.
Andy
>Somehow, I think Yogi Berra would understand this.
>
One of my favorite Yogi Berra lines; "Excuse me, could you cut that pizza pie
into six slices? I don't think I can eat 8."
>A wild stab would be none other then Wes Myers and AJLisko. <G>
>
>
Why Mike ... <blush> ... whatever gave me and Wes away? (Not that we haven't
been given away before ... ) I'm sure glad Diane came back to pick us up!
Everyone at the party was glad to see that we survived the meeting <G>!
Andy
I think you've gat Pepe mixed up with Yogi.
My favorite Pepeism: "The time has come for us to make a decision. We must
unite ... or we gotta get together ... it's one or the other ..."
Andy
>Andy you make me want to go home again ----- sigh!
Well ... not knowing where home is ... if you're the same guy that needs toll
money to get to Sky's Alumni rehearsal ... well ... see me at the bar on Nov
15th.
Andy
In article <19981109182411...@ng98.aol.com>, ajl...@aol.com
(AJLisko) wrote:
>Actually Glen, the corps became a NJ corporation in 1978 under the direction of
>Johnny Grass - another year which saw Sky defeat Hawthorne.
>
>Andy
I don't think so. I think the Grass Corp and the Holton Corp were different
corporations. I believe the name registered now is simply "Skyliners Drum &
Bugle Corps" a registered NJ corporation.
All this is public domain info though; you should be able to get copies of
anything from the State Attorney General's office.
>One of my favorite Yogi Berra lines; "Excuse me, could you cut that pizza pie
>into six slices? I don't think I can eat 8."
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it"
"You can see a lot just by observing"
Yogi has a great book out this year too. "I didn't really say all the things I
said".
>All this is public domain info though; you should be able to get copies of
>anything from the State Attorney General's office.
>
The State Attorney's office only has on file documents certifying that there is
a corporation by whatever name the said corporation is listed under, they do
not have room (disk space) to keep on file copies of each corporations by-laws
and constitution. These are to be supplied, by law, by the corporation itself
to each member in good standing of the corporation who requests a copy. Members
in good standing would be anyone who is a bonafide member as stated in the
by-laws of said corporation. In the case of the Skyliners, this would include
but not be limited to "lifetime" members.
Ay, caramba! When the Cabs played there, all of Union City's Cuban
population would go loco--and more iimportantly--loca !!! It was great to be a
Cab performing in in U.C.'s
Viva those days!!!
mario
>Ahhh ... who could ever forget "little" Rossevelt and the "free" show held by
>Union City every 4th of July. Many of the greats appeared at "little"
>Roosevelt over the years.
Especially 1967 <G> when yours truly save you, Rich Warga, Baby John and
whoever else from getting your collective asses kicked by some extremely irate
members of St. Lucy's Cadets over by Johnson's that Fourth of July evening. <G>
That's okay.....that's okay, no need to thank me. <G> Glad I did, look at what
GREAT friends you guys have become since you joined forces and marched
Skyliners together.
>Well ... not knowing where home is ... if you're the same guy that needs toll
>money to get to Sky's Alumni rehearsal ... well ... see me at the bar on Nov
>15th.
>
Two different people Andy. Bob E. marched with Gary Bischoff and Bill Verost in
the Fairview RoughRiders back in the 60's. From there he went to the Cabs and
marched with them for awhile. He now plays Euphonium with me down at Archie.
He's been to a few of our Skyliner rehearsal's (sat right behind me as a matter
of fact). Good horn, reads music and all that good stuff. Asked him to sit in a
few times. Guess he's just shy.
How 'bout Bob E., next Sunday bring your horn, sit in and play some of the best
music this side of heaven.
See Ya at Archie's party this Friday night? And Skyliner Alumni rehearsal this
coming Sunday (with your horn of course)?
>Yogi has a great book out this year too. "I didn't really say all the things
>I
>said".
>
ROTFLMAO .......Yogi would have made a brilliant poltician.
In the winter months, we practiced at Stelton community center on Stelton road
in Edison, we also practiced in some parking lot right off of route 27, hmm
another parking lot in raritan center, and Rutgers facility on Kilmer road.
that's what i remember from 87-90
Shelly
>>"Bob E." <bps...@monmouth.com> wrote:
>
>>Andy you make me want to go home again ----- sigh!
>
>Well ... not knowing where home is ... if you're the same guy that needs toll
>money to get to Sky's Alumni rehearsal ... well ... see me at the bar on Nov
>15th.
>
>
Nope, Bob was there last month....
Larry G.
>In the winter months, we practiced at Stelton community center on Stelton
>road
>in Edison, we also practiced in some parking lot right off of route 27, hmm
>another parking lot in raritan center, and Rutgers facility on Kilmer road.
>that's what i remember from 87-90
>
Thanks for that info Shelly.