Greatest SNARE Drummer
PERNA33
that is. Lets here your thoughts, stories, and perspectives...
Enjoy! (Lets argue about something else other than stupid electronics, k? )
Cp
doug crooks
Anyone know?
Are there any archives out there?
--
doug
'We are ONE'
banger3b
in drum corps......Tom Float, Chuck King, Ralph Hardiman, I'm sure there are
more on their level as well. very hard to pick just one.
--
rich d.
evil soprano...and drummer too...
"PERNA33" <per...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020129235800...@mb-cb.aol.com...
sarnia sam
100, twice, at individuals.
regards
John Swartz
"PERNA33" <per...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020129235800...@mb-cb.aol.com...
Robert Brown
>100, twice, at individuals.
>
And one of the nicest guys you could ever meet.
Rob Brown
BD 81-85
[ Brass line...... ]
Michael Cahill
sarnia sam wrote:
>
> Steven Campbell, of Buccaneers (Sarnia, Ont.), 27th, and
> Blue Devils. Scored100, twice, at individuals.
>
> regards
>
> John Swartz
Just one of the many MEMBERS who should be in
the DCI Hall of Fame.
Cheers,
Michael Cahill
DAYSINNUCF
Gdrum21
Roger was bad ass!
Love inCali
Tom & Karen Peashey
best of the early modern period
Tom "Fuzzy" Falzone ... Rochester Crusaders - simply amazing
(with a good run at it by a young Stevie Gadd who was marching next to
him)
Current Best Hands? Billy Mc Grath III - comes from Thoroughbred drumming
stock... My sources say he just recently joined the Brigadiers... but I
haven't seen him recently to confirm that...
Tom
"PERNA33" <per...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020129235800...@mb-cb.aol.com...
Catherine
news:a380cq$14k$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> Buddy Rich .......on any drum.
>
> in drum corps......Tom Float, Chuck King, Ralph Hardiman, I'm sure there
are
> more on their level as well. very hard to pick just one.
Add Rob Carson and Lance Kellogg to that list... (not that I am a good judge
of drumming technique).
I must say that Lance was the prototypical snare drummer in many other
aspects...
-- Catherine
Glen Hazelwood
> Danny Raymond Jr
>
*I* was gonna say that!
Glen
"....with a bad attitude cause I just don't care."
Steve B
> Steven Campbell, of Buccaneers (Sarnia, Ont.), 27th, and Blue Devils. Scored
> 100, twice, at individuals.
>
> regards
>
> John Swartz
Have to agree here. Family-wise I'd put all the Campbells (Steve,
Dave, Chris & Mark) in this category. This was the nicest family to
have the privledge to march with (Buccaneers).
- Steve B
Bluewater Buccaneers '81-'82
Sambuca312
Earl Sturtze. Stratford CT. Probably the "Godfather" of rudimental drumming.
Incredible teacher, and responsible for producing some of the greatest snare
drummers of the 1960s.
Frank Arsenault: A pupil of Earl Stuttze who relocated to Chicago and helped
build the Skokie Indians into a "Three-peat" American Legion National Champion
(55-56 & 57) as well as train a generation of junior corps Chi-town drummers.
Mitch Markovitch: Three-peat VFW Individual snare champ. Chicago Cavaliers.
One of the "Three Ms" of the Chicago Cavaliers snare line. Taught the Royal
Airs & Argonne Rebels.
Gary Pagnozzi: Bridgeport PAL Cadets, another pupil of Earl Sturtz. Three
time VFW National Individual Snare Champion (64-65 & 66).
Richard Nardelli: Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights. A Bobby Thompson student.
One of the best rudimental snare drummers of the early 1960s. Holder of
numerous Jersy and Mid Atlantic snare championships.
John Bodnar: Connecticut Royal Lancers & Connecticut Hurricanes: Yet another
Earl Sturtze product. Won a TON of regional snare drum titles back in the
early & mid 1960s.
There are no doubt, many, many more.
SAM
terry doran
> I would have to say in my opinion Roger Carter.
> Roger was bad ass!
> Love inCali
I would have to agree that there r many fantastic drummers, but my
vote would have to go to Mitch Marcovich of the Cavaliers, (60s).
Followed by Steve Fagiano of the Royal Airs.
AJLisko
>Earl Sturtze. Stratford CT. Probably the "Godfather" of rudimental drumming.
>Incredible teacher, and responsible for producing some of the greatest snare
>drummers of the 1960s.
>
And, one cannot forget to mention James B. Moore who was Earl's mentor and Bob
Redican, Sr. who was Earl's prize pupil. A little more lineage: Charlie Poole
was Bob Redican's prize pupil.
Andy "also taught by Earl" Lisko
fsj6310
jake
Bart
1.FRANK
NASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. Rich Viano/John Marino (MOON!)
(wouldn't want to pick!)
Joe
Wm. J. Le Roux
the hospital!! I was suprised to see that my posting was credited to 'bart"
don't know who that is, but!
FRANK NASH IS THE BEST DUDE TO EVER STAP ON A SNARE
DRUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he has chops and he is musical and he is A
CLASS ACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NONE BETTER!!!!
"Bart" <unga...@bunga-unga.com> wrote in message
news:ONT58.16960$vc.26...@news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
Dave Hawthorne
Believe he did some time with the Bridgemen and instructed and arranged for
numerous others.
"PERNA33" <per...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020129235800...@mb-cb.aol.com...
Rick Beckham
> As a side question, who's scored highest at DCI I&E on snare?
> Anyone know?
> Are there any archives out there?
Check out http://home.att.net/~rbeckham/archive.htm for archives in progress.
Steve Spang
> Who was the greatest snare drummer of all time????...rudimental snare drummer
> that is.
Maybe not the greatest, but still pretty amazing.
A young man I saw during the mid 60's from Spokane, WA (can't remember his
name). He played with either the Argonaut or Patriot organization.
He had bone cancer and lost an arm. Gripping both sticks in one hand, he could
lay rudi's down better than most did with 2 hands. He always got standing O's at
I&E contests.
The following year he needed assistance as he came out on crutches, but still
amazed everyone.
The following year he was laid to rest. He was something.
--
Steve 8-)_~
Jim Insanity Schehr
It is very hard to name just one as the greatest, but in terms of the
question (rudimental) my vote would be for Mitch Markovich. Today
snare individual performances do not cover many rudiments or a wide
range of tempos and meter at all. Raw speed and stick tricks (visual)
performances are played instead. If you want to see rudimental
drumming check out the Royal Airs this summer. You will see flam drags
and inverted flam taps just to name a few.
Later...
Jim "Insanity" Schehr
Skywnch320970
parker is tops in my book........
in unison.....AWWWWW!
Ü
jan
Dave Adams
Uhh, I heard Ken Mazur say a lot of good things about that Charlie Poole guy...
can't say that I know him myself though.
Mazur was the best I've seen personally.
-Dave Adams-
PR snare line '78
fsj6310
jake
dodging flying chopsticks
Skylnr 1
John Oddo just to name a few
Sean
Skywnch320970
>Andy Lisko isn't too shabby (even after all these years)
>J. "Fast Frankie" Nash
>The Boss
>Billy Cobham?
>That guy from RUSH
>Keith Warfield
>Eddie Dioguardi
>Larry Visconti
>Mark Thurston
>Robbie Robinson
>God, can't think of their names from the Matadors...
>
>Man am I gonna get in trouble....for not mentioning SO many.
>Oh, just bury me now....
>
>--
>
yeah, that guy from rush...didn't he march phantom?
Ü
jan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>gotta see who bites!
Matt Raminick
- m
"PERNA33" <per...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020129235800...@mb-cb.aol.com...
Skywnch320970
>Garry who?? Oh...eggroll Garry!!!!
>
>
>jake
>dodging flying chopsticks
well, since stinkin' rat bastard is taken, i've got to come up with a new
one......give me time....
Ü
jan
Carol Hooton
Carol
david petrone
the I& E champs.Cant remember the site,but I'll try to dig iti up, you
may want to check Pasic and see if thats it.
Kevin Sherman
How about Rob Carson, Ken Mazur (please don't flame, he was
unbelievable), Scott Johnson, Jeff Queen. Just a few I haven't seen
mentioned. I saw Arsenault in 73 or 74 give a clinic and he was
amazing. Really inspired me to get after it.
Kevin
Simon
forgot the name of the book, "something Icecream" (someone help me out
here). It has some solos of top i&e drummers. These solos (as you can
see on the page cover "rudiments" and hybrids out the wazoo. No
"tempo range"?!?! Todays solos are EXTREMELY musical (which include
varying tempo and dynamics). I know "drum corps isnt supposed to be
musical" but thats a whole other thread for Catherine to invade.
Also, many of the “stick tricks” (which add to the
entertainment value of the solo, which Im sure is what you old timers
are looking for) require a highly skilled player to pull off. There
is more to drumming than "flam drags and inverted flam taps". I
tought my 4th grade student how to play inverts last week as a matter
of fact.
jims...@hotmail.com (Jim Insanity Schehr) wrote in message news:<dc3f89fc.02013...@posting.google.com>...
Jim
of the others listed] drum, but because of the fundamentally more precise
method of drum music notation he developed, which I first saw and played in
his published "Team Work" & "Four Horsemen" drum quartets, and "Stamina" &
"Tornado" snare solos. Precise notation for precise percussion. Finally.
-Jim
banger3b
THANKS FOR THE SHOW! 100.
RD.
"sarnia sam" <jswartz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u5f25g6...@corp.supernews.com...
> Steven Campbell, of Buccaneers (Sarnia, Ont.), 27th, and Blue Devils.
Scored
> 100, twice, at individuals.
>
> regards
>
> John Swartz
>
>
> "PERNA33" <per...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020129235800...@mb-cb.aol.com...
Ken Sherry
Yeah Frank, I still won't forget the individual snare contest in
Rochester 1984.
Ken
On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:53:34 GMT, "Bart" <unga...@bunga-unga.com>
wrote:
Glen Hazelwood
Glen
"....with a bad attitude cause I just don't care."
Tchmuzk
John Schiaparelli
"Glen Hazelwood" <jth1...@aol.comoutnplay> wrote in message
news:20020130200335...@mb-fr.aol.com...
> Pat Petrillo
>
I agree with this post.
John
Jerome Kimbrough
Ill byte.Tee Hee
Anyway,Pat Petrillo and Pete Castellano
J
James Christian
competition in many years (DCA, '99-'01). Of course, I *am* somewhat
biased.
Rudimentally yours,
James Christian
Wm. J. Le Roux
toooo!!!!!
"NanciD" <nan...@att.net> wrote in message
news:dfqg5ukkjdvi6gsf0...@4ax.com...
>
> mailto:Nan...@att.net
Scotty
> that is. Lets here your thoughts, stories, and perspectives...
>
>
> Enjoy! (Lets argue about something else other than stupid electronics, k? )
>
> Cp
Ron Zeibart (#2 behind Scott Johnson back in '76 or '77)
Mark Thurston
Pat Petrillo
Matt Savage
Kevin Murray
I had the pleasure of teaching Kevin in his high school band and in
college, and being a student of Matt's and Ron's. What these guys all
have in common is what comes across as an effortless, and smooth
approach that makes it look so easy. If only I had the hands.......
James Christian
> Not Rudimental!?!?!?! Are you kidding? Take a look at, oh crap i
> forgot the name of the book, "something Icecream" (someone help me out
> here). It has some solos of top i&e drummers. These solos (as you can
> see on the page cover "rudiments" and hybrids out the wazoo. No
> "tempo range"?!?!
I haven't seen the book to which you refer, but out of all of the DCI &
PAS solos I've seen in the 90's and 2000's, *maybe* two or three have
somewhat impressed me. Most individual players today that have been
taught the modern super-bounce technique have little to no control over
their sticks. Even with all of the hybrid rudiments, I haven't seen
much of anything that comes close to matching the physical endurance of
Markovich's "Tornado"--much less Ken Mazur's "Laser Beam".
Clips can be seen at:
http://home.att.net/~rbeckham/lazer10.mpg
http://home.att.net/~rlbeckham/uarm.mpg
> Todays solos are EXTREMELY musical (which include
> varying tempo and dynamics). I know "drum corps isnt supposed to be
> musical" but thats a whole other thread for Catherine to invade.
1. Rudimental drumming is NOT a composition competition. It should be
about the abilities of the performers.
2. Almost all of the modern solos are quite fragmented in design. It
seems that most performers have little idea of how to construct a solo
that conveys their strengths.
> Also, many of the “stick tricks” (which add to the
> entertainment value of the solo, which Im sure is what you old timers
> are looking for) require a highly skilled player to pull off. There
> is more to drumming than "flam drags and inverted flam taps". I
> tought my 4th grade student how to play inverts last week as a matter
> of fact.
Many stick visuals (such as backsticking, difficult stick flips,
complicated stick clicks, etc.) DO add much to the difficulty, therefore
adding to the G.E. and overall impressiveness. Many visuals that I see
in modern solos (such as simple tosses, hitting different parts of the
drum, playing with different mallets--or even plungers!) are desperate
attempts to cover up poor technique and lack of rudimental knowledge.
Of course, I'm sure that there have always been solos like this, but
those are the ones that are winning now.
Now don't get me wrong, it's not completely the fault of the performers.
It's the modern instructors who advocate the bouncing techniques that
greatly inhibit your playing abilities. Also, the strong
anti-individualsm philosophies that seem to prevail in public schools
and in drum corps do nothing to encourage playing abilities any further
beyond the level of the drum line.
Rudimentally yours,
James Christian
crumusicny
Jodeen E Popp
Many years ago there was a very special rudimental snare drummer named Frank
Arsenault.
He won everything in sight for years marching in the East. He won his first
title as Connecticut
State Champ when he was 16, and was a member of the Connecticut Yankees.
He went on to win various national titles over the years and became the most
accomplished and
honored rudimental drummer in history, at least in his lifetime. He died in
December of 1974.
He recorded the "bible" of rudimental drumming, and pioneered the modern
approaches in both
performing and teaching. In the late 1950's, Frank moved to the midwest and
taught the Cavaliers, including, I believe, Mitch Markovich and Larry
McCormick; Norwood Park Imperials and the Skokie Indians. He was a member
of Skokie during their National Championship years.
I knew Frank slightly as I traveled a bit with Skokie during that time. I
recall that it seemed like
a clinic whenever they weren't actually marching. "Let's go watch Frank".
His talents spread across
the country and across the years. I am certain there are some of you on
here that knew or knew of, Frank Arsenault.
In the later years I most recall SCV's Robbie Carson, who won the first I &
E I ever saw, at the
Velvet Knight's Hall in the late '60's, and, of course, Ralph Hardimon and
Tom Float, who marched
with my daughter in the Kingsmen. There are many others I knew mainly by
reputation, most of whom
have been mentioned already in this thread.
Jodeen Popp
"James Christian" <jechr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3C58C598...@hotmail.com...
Michael Winterberg
<jechr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Simon wrote:
>
> > Not Rudimental!?!?!?! Are you kidding? Take a look at, oh crap i
> > forgot the name of the book, "something Icecream" (someone help me out
> > here). It has some solos of top i&e drummers. These solos (as you can
> > see on the page cover "rudiments" and hybrids out the wazoo. No
> > "tempo range"?!?!
>
>
>I haven't seen the book to which you refer, but out of all of the DCI &
>PAS solos I've seen in the 90's and 2000's, *maybe* two or three have
>somewhat impressed me. Most individual players today that have been
>taught the modern super-bounce technique have little to no control over
>their sticks. Even with all of the hybrid rudiments, I haven't seen
>much of anything that comes close to matching the physical endurance of
>Markovich's "Tornado"--much less Ken Mazur's "Laser Beam".
>
>Clips can be seen at:
>http://home.att.net/~rbeckham/lazer10.mpg
>http://home.att.net/~rlbeckham/uarm.mpg
>
The book is from Tap Space Publications... called Violent Ice Cream (I
want to hear the judge's tape that gave it that name... '91, SCV
closing percussion statement)... Solos from Nick Angelis (Train Wreck,
DCI I&E 1992 champ), Mike McIntosh (Three, 1991 PASIC), Chip Webster
(Bolero for Ed), Tyler Dempsey (Rodent Tomfoolery, 1996 PASIC), and
Jeff Queen (Tribute... 94-95 PASIC and DCI I&E).
For bad quality (for both audio and visual) Quicktime videos (except
for Nick's solo)...
http://www.tapspace.com/vic.html
On TheDrumClub, Jeff Queen's solo from that book is reprinted
http://www.thedrumclub.com/RUDIMENT/ADVANCED/Advanced.htm
A quick scan of the rudiments included (based off of just the 40 PAS
rudiments)...
Train Wreck: drag, multiple bounce roll, double paradiddle,
paradiddle-diddle, single stroke roll, flamacue, flam tap, 6 stroke
roll, double stroke open roll/long roll, flam drag, paradiddle, flam,
9-stroke roll, 7 stroke roll, single stroke four, triple stroke roll,
single drag tap, flam accent (gridded)
Rodent Tomfoolery: single stroke roll, flam, flam accent, inverted
flam taps, paradiddle, thirteen stroke roll, single drag tap, swiss
army triplets, flam paradiddle, flam drag, paradiddle-diddle, long
roll, triple stroke roll, multiple bounce roll.
Tribute: flam, multiple bounce roll, paradiddle-diddle, paradiddle,
5-stroke roll, open roll, flam tap, swiss army triplet, single stroke
roll, triple stroke roll, six stroke roll, flam drag, drag, 13-stroke
roll, flam paradiddle-diddle, flam paradiddle, inverted flam tap, flam
accent, single stroke 7.
Bolero for Ed: flam, single stroke 4, single stroke 7, (surprising for
a piece based off of Bolero, no?), multiple bounce roll, seven stroke
roll, 13-stroke roll, triple stroke roll, paradiddle-diddle, flam tap,
6-stroke roll, paradiddle.
Three: single stroke 4, flam, flam drag, inverted flam taps, swiss
army triplet, pataflafla, paradiddle, paradiddle-diddle, 13-stroke
roll, triple-stroke roll, single stroke 7, seven-stroke roll, multiple
bounce roll, flam paradiddle.
The rudiments listed were based off of a strict interpretation of the
PAS rudiments... ie: they may have had flamacues, but flammed the
second note as well as the first, Or, they may have had flam accents,
but put a stutter diddle at the beginning, making it a flam
stutter/cheese, etc etc.... however, with the 13-stroke roll in Three
(and some of the others), it really would be a "14-stroke roll" if it
existed... such as the difference between a 6-stroke and 5-stroke
roll.. Also, I may have missed some of the rudiments.
--Michael Winterberg
VKGARRY73
>I would have to agree that there r many fantastic drummers, but my
>vote would have to go to Mitch Marcovich of the Cavaliers, (60s).
>Followed by Steve Fagiano of the Royal Airs.
I've played with Steve, and he's STILL a bad-ass!
VKG
Always remember you are unique...just like everyone else.
><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.
·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>
VKGARRY73
>i know nothing about drumming, but i must say (no, really, i MUST) that
>garry
>parker is tops in my book........
>
Yeah, that's it. That would explain why you always glare at me when I'm tapping
on stuff. You must be in awe...or is that "awwwwwwww"?
>in unison.....AWWWWW!
Thought so!
:>)
VKGARRY73
>Not Rudimental!?!?!?! Are you kidding? Take a look at, oh crap i
>forgot the name of the book, "something Icecream" (someone help me out
>here). It has some solos of top i&e drummers. These solos (as you can
>see on the page cover "rudiments" and hybrids out the wazoo. No
>"tempo range"?!?! Todays solos are EXTREMELY musical (which include
>varying tempo and dynamics). I know "drum corps isnt supposed to be
>musical" but thats a whole other thread for Catherine to invade.
>Also, many of the "stick tricks" (which add to the
>entertainment value of the solo, which Im sure is what you old timers
>are looking for) require a highly skilled player to pull off. There
>is more to drumming than "flam drags and inverted flam taps". I
>tought my 4th grade student how to play inverts last week as a matter
>of fact.
>
Ok, but how is their interpretation? Fast isn't always good, especially when
interpretation is sloppy, sacrificed for speed.
Jeffsjetta
Dave Hawthorne
"crumusicny" <crumu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020131004521...@mb-fx.aol.com...
RDoran8728
Airs, et.al.
He was perennial National Champion, I believe, for most of the decade of the
1960's.
I saw him play a concert at the Civic Opera House back in 1965.....Six or so
top corps and Mitch...by himself, keeping the crowd enthralled for 30 minutes
or so. Brilliant.
RDoran8728
RA when Mitch was an instructor...also, I had the HONOR of watching him perform
solo for about 30 minutes at the Civic Opera House standstill contest back in
1965....he did the show under black light...at least part of it....it was
awesome
fsj6310
Lets not forget that after RA folded, Mitch went to the Nisei
Ambassadors where I had the honor of being instructed by him! He
was...and still remains in my highest regard and I often uses the
lessons he taught me when I teach my students.
jake
NWV
Skywnch320970
>>i know nothing about drumming, but i must say (no, really, i MUST) that
>>garry
>>parker is tops in my book........
>>
>
>Yeah, that's it. That would explain why you always glare at me when I'm
>tapping
>on stuff. You must be in awe...or is that "awwwwwwww"?
>
>>in unison.....AWWWWW!
>
>Thought so!
>
>:>)
honey, only when it's one of my favorite songs playing.......or when i'm trying
to sleep, or when i'm trying to be quiet, or when i'm trying to clean the
house, or when i'm trying to breathe........
Ü
jan
<smooch>
Liz Duguay
find.
and what's a poor guard girl gonna do?? air flag-it around the house??
eventually we'll start flapping enough we'd take flight.
it just ain't fair i'm tellin' ya.
L
Mike Sharpe
"crumusicny" <crumu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020131004521...@mb-fx.aol.com...
RDoran8728
Mitch still looks the same today...kind of the Dick Clark of drum corps.
NoTicks
just one?
I'd like to add Jim Hurley to the other outstanding names that have appeared
in this thread. A great combination of power, speed and finesse!
regards,
Fred O.
Allan Murray
VKGARRY73
>Ah yes - the curse of the drummer - they drum on every damn thing they can
>find.
>and what's a poor guard girl gonna do?? air flag-it around the house??
Yeah, right. I've seen guard chicks in hardware stores, spinning everything
that has any sort of center of gravity.
DRUMAJOR
> Liz wrote:
>
> > Ah yes - the curse of the drummer - they drum on every damn
> > thing they can find. and what's a poor guard girl gonna do??
> > air flag-it around the house??
>
> Yeah, right. I've seen guard chicks in hardware stores, spinning
> everything that has any sort of center of gravity.
Nothing like a spinning rolling pin in the morning... ôżô
Bradley Leath
"Allan Murray" <all...@degmusic.com> wrote in message
news:3c59f...@nopics.sjc...
Outpercmem
Has never won Snare i&e>Current Best Hands? Billy Mc Grath III - comes from
Thoroughbred drumming
>stock... My sources say he just recently joined the Brigadiers... but I
>haven't seen him recently to confirm that...
Skylnr 1
Sean
CMFDOG1
SkyDrmline
>Agree with both, but don't forget John Dowlan
did someone say john donovan????
Poonmunch1
Liz Duguay
>LOL that is true. They spin anything they get there hands on right Liz?
well . . . maybe not ANYTHING
hehehe
L