1976 Madison Scouts
DandB73
Shaft to Stars and Stripes Forever. I sure hope some one has that recording of
them playing Shaft. I'd love to hear it again. Also why did they change
opener? I thought Shaft was awesome.
Dave
Jason Litt
>opener? I thought Shaft was awesome.
In the "Madison through the Years" video, it said that the show design was
lacking and it wasn't a very good choice...so during tour they scrapped the
show and wrote a whole new one (never done by any corps in history) and still
came in 2nd place at DCI Finals....pretty intense....
but thats just what I heard....I never heard the recording of shaft either, but
keep looking....
[-] Jason "You're a walking tick-box" Litt
[-] 1995-1999 Lake Howell HS Silver Regiment - Winter Park, FL
[-] 1999-2000 Univ. of South FL Herd of Thunder - Tampa, FL
[-] 2001- Madison Scouts DBC
...and 20 more oz. of Oxi-clean w/ your purchase!
David White
show in Thousand Oaks, Calif. That was a hot show. Madison, 27th, SCV, BD, VK,
Troopers, Kingmen and I believe Commodores. I thought that Shaft was a great
opener. But, if I remember correctly, Madison was getting hammered by the Judges.
They changed almost their entire show halfway through the season and still pulled
off a 2nd place at Finals.
David White
Nancy Holgate
David White <wligh...@attbi.com> wrote:
> I sure wish I still had my recording of Madisons 1976 show. I recorded it at
> a
> show in Thousand Oaks, Calif. That was a hot show. Madison, 27th, SCV, BD,
> VK,
Oooo.
What year was this show?!
> Troopers, Kingmen and I believe Commodores. I thought that Shaft was a great
> opener. But, if I remember correctly, Madison was getting hammered by the
> Judges.
> They changed almost their entire show halfway through the season and still
> pulled
> off a 2nd place at Finals.
>
> David White
>
> DandB73 wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for a recording of Madison before they changed their opener
> > from
> > Shaft to Stars and Stripes Forever. I sure hope some one has that recording
> > of
> > them playing Shaft. I'd love to hear it again. Also why did they change
> > opener? I thought Shaft was awesome.
> >
> > Dave
>
Nancy
Dan Guernsey
Dave,
I marched in 1976 Scouts: here is the story. The '76 fiasco of
"Madison Scouts, Part I" was in large measure the creation of Fred
Sanford. Fred was not only drum arranger/instructor, but also program
coordinator. Thus, he had a strong hand in selecting the music for
"Madison Scouts Part I" in '76 with "Shaft," "Pick up the Pieces" as a
drum solo ('76 disco stuff--YIKES!!!!), "Mahogany" et al. After we
took our knocks early in the season (deservedly so), Fred was demoted
and we scrapped the entire show after our California tour in early
July. We pulled out of all of our shows in early-mid July and went
into a 2-week marathon camp to learn and clean an entire new show,
mostly based on the "glories" of 1975-"Madison Scouts Part II." Fred's
music selection in "Scouts-Part I" just didn't cut it. It was a new
venture for Fred, but I think he was in over his head as program
coordinator; he should have stuck to what he did best: write and
instruct drum lines.
Unfortunately, Fred wrote his worse drum solo in his career, saving it
for us. Some fellow Scout buddies and I use to joke that Gail Royer
had sent Fred out to us in '76 on a secret sabotage mission as pay
back for winning DCI in 1975 :-).
In any event, we redeemed ourselves pretty well taking 2nd at DCI
finals, despite the noted horn phasing problems in "MacArthur's Park."
We were pushed to the limit, unfortunately. It was a frustrating year
because our talent level was as good if not better than 1975. If we
would have had a product to begin with, we would have given BD a run
for their money. As an aside, we a won drum execution at '76 finals
thanks to Fred. So, all wasn't lost for us, nor him :-).
As for a recording of "Shaft" and the early show, I've been dying to
hear it. Luckily, an old Scout buddy of mine from '76 told me last
week that he has an audio recording of "Scouts Part I" from early
June. I can't wait to hear it for a good laugh. He told me we were
pathetically bad, including "Shaft," so I wouldn't get your hopes up
too high for a "barn burner."
Best,
Dan Guernsey
Madison Scouts, 1970-77
bill turner
guer...@fiu.edu (Dan Guernsey) wrote:
Thanks for some inside scoops Dan. I didn't know Fred was program
coordinator for Scouts that year.
I saw your part-1 show from backfield at one of the Drums Along the
Rockies stops. Kinda liked the show myself (especially Mahogany); but
there's no question that you weren't getting scores that would let you
repeat as champs.
Redeemed youselves, indeed. Pulling 12 minutes of new horn, drum, drill,
and guardwork together in just, what, five weeks; kickin' everybody's
butt except BD... damned impressive achievement for any corps.
I can only guess that the 2nd place in 1976 had to be nearly as exciting
as 1st in 1975 had been. Bet 'cha didn't feel like "loosers" in Philly!
-- bill (SCV in '76, proudly losing to youse guys)
Catherine
discussing...
-- Catherine
"Dan Guernsey" <guer...@fiu.edu> wrote in message
news:91ef956e.02051...@posting.google.com...
Dan Guernsey
Dave,
To amend my previous post. The '76 fiasco was not entirely Fred
Sanford's doing: it also involved James Elvord. "Scouts Part I" was
their creation. Even brillant people like these two guys have, at
times, creative lapses. In addition to the music, there was a
penultimate plan for us to wear knickerbocker stockings and breeches,
similar to 18th-century fashion al la Disco look. The thinking was
that it would "jive" with our contemporary "hip" sound of "Shaft" and
"Pick Up the Pieces." Holy S***! I can't even image what those unis
would have looked like. Thank God it never came to fruition.
U82m
>Sanford's doing: it also involved James Elvord
I had hear somewhere that Michael Lecrone (Univ. of Wisconsin marching band
director) had a hand in the '76 Madison (part I) show. Not true?? Bill.
Kevin Gamin
Except for Stars and Stripes, the rep was almost identical to their '75
show.
--
Kevin "Gadget" Gamin
Toledo Glassmen 1992-1996
Empire Statesmen 2000-2002
"Give me all you've got then crescendo!"
---Leonard Bernstein
"Jason Litt" <litt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020513010401...@mb-ch.aol.com...
André Lévis
your dream Mr David White.
André Lévis
Blue Devils
1976/1977
David White <wligh...@attbi.com> a écrit dans le message :
3CDF4B51...@attbi.com...
David White
Saturday July 3, 1976
Top 3 finishers
1. SCV 77.75
2. 27th Lancers 74.50
3. Madison Scouts 73.25
My Mistake was that BD was not at the show.
David White
Catherine
news:3CDF4B51...@attbi.com...
> I sure wish I still had my recording of Madisons 1976 show. I recorded it at a
> show in Thousand Oaks, Calif. That was a hot show. Madison, 27th, SCV, BD, VK,
> Troopers, Kingmen and I believe Commodores. I thought that Shaft was a great
> opener. But, if I remember correctly, Madison was getting hammered by the Judges.
California corps fans love visiting out-of-state corps. But to quote the 1979 Spirit
of Atlanta:
"California, here we go.
We got screwed at every show..."
-- Catherine
David White
This Show took place July 3, 1976. In Thousand Oaks, Ca. I have been to many big
shows in Ca, including Long Beach in 1973 at Vetreans Stadium. That show included
Troopers, Kingsmen, SCV, Commodores and several others. But, this Thousand Oaks
show in '76 has stuck in my memory for all these years. It was just a Damn good
show.
David White
Catherine
> Nancy,
>
> This Show took place July 3, 1976. In Thousand Oaks, Ca. I have been to many big
> shows in Ca, including Long Beach in 1973 at Vetreans Stadium. That show included
> Troopers, Kingsmen, SCV, Commodores and several others.
Mr. White --
I remember that show well. That was the debut of the rainbow wig.
Wasn't it also the show that the Kingsmen raffled off a car?
-- Catherine
Dan Guernsey
I had heard that Fred Sanford replaced Ray Baumgardt with Michael
Lecrone of UW band that winter of '76--I was in the drum line so I
wasn't always privy to all the tid bits about hornline matters. I do
know for fact that Baumgardt wrote an original piece for concert in
that early '76 show, just as he did in 1971. So, if I recall, Lecrone
wrote the entire show except concert--he did "Shaft" for opener, a
sluggish marching version of "MacArthur's Park" for out of concert
zzzzzzzzzzzz, and "Mahogany" for closer. And, of course, we had Fred's
great drum solo, "Pick Up the Pieces," ("Pick Up the DOWNER"). What
the HELL was Fred thinking!!? Replacing the premier horn arranger in
drum corps at that time with an un-proven guy didn't make one bit of
sense! It was another instance of that troubled year of 1976. It was
one of those years of bad decisions at a time when expectations among
members were high. Too bad, because a fair number of '74 and '75 vets
left after '76 cuz of burn out and frustration, leaving Scouts with a
younger and weaker corps in '77. 1976 was a blown opportunity.
Matt
don't know exactly how early it was recorded - given that early-season
quality of the horn sound and the dates surrounding the program
change, I'm guessing this was a June contest...). The Shaft
arrangement was pretty hip - not so sure about the "long version' of
MacArthur Park (as out of concert, if I'm remembering right) and "Pick
up the Pieces" was just painful - but not as bad as the "Theme from
Mahogany" closer (perhaps they were thinking high-brow during the
program planning, and were looking for Weill's music to the Brecht
show - but probably not...)
Since it was Kobold's recording, likely it's in DCI's collection. One
of these days, maybe someone at DCI will get a little savvy to the
value of 'rarities' recordings, and put together a package CD of some
of the more unusual recordings in their lot. 75 Muchachos prelims,
Madison early 76, and 77 Bridgemen finals; they've got 'em, unless Ken
erased them before willing over the tapes....(any other candidates?
SCV's 82 prelim performance, without the unfortunate "Phase Dance"
fiasco at finals? I had that from Ken too...)
Oh, the reason I say 'had' this recording is because it was ordered on
8-track. Can you say "70s" ?....;-)
Matt
Dan Guernsey
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the kind words. And, ditto to you guys in 1976. I love
"Appalachian Spring."
"I can only guess that 2nd place in 1976 had to be nearly as exciting
as 1st in 1975 had been. Bet 'cha didn't feel like "loosers" in
Philly!"
Given the situation, we felt redeemed--a bittersweet "moral victory,"
but for many of the old guys who marched in 1974 and 1975 (including
myself) it wasn't good enough. Taking 2nd wasn't anywhere near as
exciting as taking 1st in 1975. Again, 1976 was bittersweet. To this
day, when I talk to some of my old Scout buddies and 1976 comes up, we
just look at each other in silence a shake our heads, a non-verbal
"what could have been."
Corkie
blowing off rehearsal one of those years to go watch the Thousand Oaks show.
Coulda sworn it was 76 as I remember watching Madison at retreat instead of
being on the field with them...
Wasn't it 1975 when 27th Lancers were in SoCal? I remember watching them at
the LaPalma show. Regis was the announcer, Disney fireworks going of during
the AK closer... it was my first drum corps show.
Corkie
VK 75-78
"David White" <wligh...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3CE0AA5F...@attbi.com...
André Lévis
I (BD) was'nt there.But I do remeber
in San Jose California on July 2, 1976
David White <wligh...@attbi.com> a écrit dans le message :
3CE09EF5...@attbi.com...
David White
VK that year. The stadium I do remember, just not that show. But, 75 being a
blur??
You gotta remember Salem, OR for DCW Championships.
David White
BTW, the 73 show that I mentioned was actually in 74 in Long Beach
bill turner
David White <wligh...@attbi.com> wrote:
> I dont know why but, I dont remember La Palma in '75. I should as I was in the
> VK that year. The stadium I do remember, just not that show. But, 75 being a
> blur??
I don't think VK were in the 1975 La Palma show. Most of us were there
as fans, though.
-- bill
Ron Allard
>
>Since it was Kobold's recording, likely it's in DCI's collection. One
>of these days, maybe someone at DCI will get a little savvy to the
>value of 'rarities' recordings, and put together a package CD of some
>of the more unusual recordings in their lot. 75 Muchachos prelims,
>Madison early 76, and 77 Bridgemen finals; they've got 'em, unless Ken
>erased them before willing over the tapes....(any other candidates?
>SCV's 82 prelim performance, without the unfortunate "Phase Dance"
>fiasco at finals? I had that from Ken too...)
Someone on here (Div2/3Fan?) is working right now on remastering the Kobold
recordings...
I'm sure it's a monumental undertaking, especially considering it's a voluntary
thing...
>
>Oh, the reason I say 'had' this recording is because it was ordered on
>8-track. Can you say "70s" ?....;-)
Late 60s, even!
I had a few of them from Ken, too... used to play 'em constantly in my '65 Dodge
Cornet 500 (it had a 386 in it - a real monster at the time...)
(I have a story about going to the Felt Forum in 1970, and what happened to my
8-track player that weekend - but it's for another time...)
Those were the days when you could order an 8-track with 4 corps/years of your
choice from him for not a lot of money (~$2/corps if memory serves)...
(Sigh)
--
Ron in Vegas
mailto:ron.a...@att.net
"Because there was always something about the Skyliners...
and that music..."
- Donnie Solinger
Senior Corps History site:
http://www.SrCorps.com
Corkie
> In article <3CE1AD47...@attbi.com>,
> David White <wligh...@attbi.com> wrote:
>
> > I dont know why but, I dont remember La Palma in '75. I should as I was
in the
> > VK that year. The stadium I do remember, just not that show. But, 75
being a
> > blur??
>
> I don't think VK were in the 1975 La Palma show. Most of us were there
> as fans, though.
>
> -- bill
Yup. I was there as a fan. Lots of us were- I remember several of the older
vets (especially Manuel!) being bitter about Rocco not inviting VK to be in
that show.
Corkie
david tippett
the Boise,Id. show - right before they headed home to change the show.
You might look for that recording.
"To love another person
is to see the face of God."
bill turner
ddti...@webtv.net (david tippett) wrote:
> Maybe one of the last times Madison would have played the Shaft show was
> the Boise,Id. show - right before they headed home to change the show.
> You might look for that recording.
Good memory!
June 30, 1976 (courtesy corpsreps.com)
1 Blue Devils 79.85
2 Santa Clara Vanguard 76.80
3 Madison Scouts 76.60
4 27th Lancers 75.65
5 Argonauts 60.40
6 Black Watch 52.90
7 Knight Raiders 46.80
I didn't remember Scouts being so close (I was in SCV) that early... but
then, they weren't aiming at us!
I just hated the "box" at Boise. Still have a crick in my neck.
-- bill
Div23fan
>recordings...
You called?
OK, there's good news and bad news. Bad news is that DCI does not have the
1976 Madison early-season recording. Good news is that Alf Wateska obtained a
copy of it from Kobold. It's not in mint condition, but it'll do.
Anyone know when that performance took place? The tape says "Whitewater, WI",
and they are announced as in exhibition. I can't find any Whitewater contests
other than DCI Midwest in August of that year.
Dan Guernsey
Hey Dave,
Glad you chimmed in. Bill said Boise, ID show was June 30. I know we
played the Shaft show as late as July 3rd at Thousand Oaks, CA.
Sometime around July 1st we were told that the show would be scrapped.
I remember on the buses we started teaching the music to "Scouts Part
II" to the new guys--luckily we still had a fair number of 1975 vets
that made the transition tolerable. We would learn "Scouts Part II" by
day on the bus while still performing "Scouts Part I" at night. By the
time we started that 2-week marathon camp in Madison c. July 10, many
of us had the music memorized. It was matter of learning the new music
of "Stars and Stripes," "Ease on Down the Road" drum solo, and the
drill. We indeed had to "Pick Up the Pieces" quickly after that
disasterous Shaft show. It was intense: it was FUBAR.
Pharis
WERE the days!
I don't remember Madison doing the "Shaft" show at Whitewater...I'm almost
positive they had already changed to "Stars and Stripes" and 1975 redux.
I've got some old audio cassettes that I made from the stands at that show.
I'll try to find them and check it out!
They weren't in Exhibition either...they competed in the show.
Charlie Pharis
"Div23fan" <div2...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020515101716...@mb-mc.aol.com...
Pharis
WERE the days!
I don't remember Madison doing the "Shaft" show at Whitewater...I'm almost
positive they had already changed to "Stars and Stripes" and 1975 redux.
I've got some old audio cassettes that I made from the stands at that show.
I'll try to find them and check it out!
They weren't in Exhibition either...they competed in the show.
Charlie Pharis
"Div23fan" <div2...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020515101716...@mb-mc.aol.com...
Pharis
WERE the days!
I don't remember Madison doing the "Shaft" show at Whitewater...I'm almost
positive they had already changed to "Stars and Stripes" and 1975 redux.
I've got some old audio cassettes that I made from the stands at that show.
I'll try to find them and check it out!
They weren't in Exhibition either...they competed in the show.
Charlie Pharis
"Div23fan" <div2...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020515101716...@mb-mc.aol.com...
David White
It just dawned on me that you were part of the infamous Madison 5.0 corps. Now that's impressive.
David White
Dan Guernsey wrote:
> dan...@aol.com (DandB73) wrote in message news:<20020512213421...@mb-bg.aol.com>...
> > I'm looking for a recording of Madison before they changed their opener from
> > Shaft to Stars and Stripes Forever. I sure hope some one has that recording of
> > them playing Shaft. I'd love to hear it again. Also why did they change
> > opener? I thought Shaft was awesome.
> >
> > Dave
>
Matt
might be able to remember). In the late 70s/early 80s, sometimes the
CSJA (judges assn) would hold a judge's "warm up day" in Whitewater
just before the season started. I know that when I was working with
Cavaliers Cadet corps in 82 that Madison was a participant that year.
Possible that it was the same set up in 76 ? (would have been
Memorial Day weekend).
Matt
Div23fan
>might be able to remember). In the late 70s/early 80s, sometimes the
>CSJA (judges assn) would hold a judge's "warm up day" in Whitewater
>just before the season started.
Probably not. I don't think this performance was judged (no timing guns).
Here's a thought. Wasn't the MBA marching band show in Whitewater? And could
it have been held in June as well?
Dan Guernsey
Hello Matt,
Unfortunately, I don't recall a preview show in Whitewater in '76--I
can't say for absolute certainty. I doubt it, however, because we were
still learning the drill to our show during Memorial Day weekend; we
always had camp that weekend. The following weekend, we performed the
Shaft show for the first time at an exhibition for the home crowd in
Madison; during the afternoon, we were still learning the drill to
"Mahogany." Needless to say, the show was pretty rough that night. We
could have performed it at Whitewater shortly thereafter (very early
June?). I do remember the DCI Preview in Whitewater in 1978, however.
1978 might have been the first year the CSJA held it.
Dan Guernsey
Dan Guernsey
> Hey Dan,
>
> It just dawned on me that you were part of the infamous Madison 5.0 corps. Now that's impressive.
>
> David White
>
For the younger guys, the Madison 5.0 corps that David refers to is
the perfect 5.0 in MA (Musical Analysis) that the Scouts and Argonne
Rebels received in 1971. They were the only 2 hornlines to receive the
perfect mark that season. Scouts and Argonne would receive such marks
again in 1972. I have the old Fleetwood record that came out shorty
after the '71 season that features the two premier hornlines of the
early 1970s. It includes music excerpts from the two respective corps
and interviews with Ray Baumgardt (Scouts) and Sandra Opie (Argonne).
I have not listened to that record in years. I'll have to dig it out.
I wasn't in the hornline. I was in the drumline (guard in '71),
hanging on to the coat tails of the Baumgardt/Elvord juggernaut of
1971-75 :-).
Dan Guernsey
Dan Guernsey
Yes, now some of these fading memories are starting to come back. I do
remember performing at Whitewater in '76 that was in conjunction with
MBA. I think Sanford had us at a band clinic of some kind during the
day and Scouts performed later that night at Warhawk Stadium. It was
early in the season, so it had to be in June, before we left on our
fateful California tour (late June-early July). So, Matt's exhibition
recording very well could have come from that performance.
bill turner
> David White <wligh...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:<3CE3038D...@attbi.com>...
> > Hey Dan,
> >
> > It just dawned on me that you were part of the infamous Madison 5.0 corps.
> > Now that's impressive.
> >
> > David White
> >
> Hi David,
>
> For the younger guys, the Madison 5.0 corps that David refers to is
> the perfect 5.0 in MA (Musical Analysis) that the Scouts and Argonne
> Rebels received in 1971. They were the only 2 hornlines to receive the
> perfect mark that season. Scouts and Argonne would receive such marks
> again in 1972. I have the old Fleetwood record that came out shorty
> after the '71 season that features the two premier hornlines of the
> early 1970s. It includes music excerpts from the two respective corps
> and interviews with Ray Baumgardt (Scouts) and Sandra Opie (Argonne).
> I have not listened to that record in years. I'll have to dig it out.
If you dig it out, and tope or mp3 the interviews, I'll transcribe them
for you. Baumgardt and Opie, two of my heros.
> I wasn't in the hornline. I was in the drumline (guard in '71),
> hanging on to the coat tails of the Baumgardt/Elvord juggernaut of
> 1971-75 :-).
>
> Dan Guernsey
And what a drumline! (especially '75)
-- bill
george maloney
Also did a show in Salinis(spelling?)that year in a rodeo ring. Small
with ten foot concrete walls a few feet from the side line, Ouch!
As for Madison 75 & 76. I had the pleasure of seeing them both on the
track, a few feet away from the side line. Changed my life as well as
my hearing forever. What a sound! Still gives me goosebumps.
All the best,
George
Catherine
news:b9faa458.02051...@posting.google.com...
> bill turner <bill_ge...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bill_gets_stuff-E1...@orngca-news03.socal.rr.com>...
> > In article <13537-3CE...@storefull-2138.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
> > ddti...@webtv.net (david tippett) wrote:
> >
> > > Maybe one of the last times Madison would have played the Shaft show was
> > > the Boise,Id. show - right before they headed home to change the show.
> > > You might look for that recording.
> >
> > Good memory!
> >
> > June 30, 1976 (courtesy corpsreps.com)
> >
> > 1 Blue Devils 79.85
> > 2 Santa Clara Vanguard 76.80
> > 3 Madison Scouts 76.60
> > 4 27th Lancers 75.65
> > 5 Argonauts 60.40
> > 6 Black Watch 52.90
> > 7 Knight Raiders 46.80
> >
> > I didn't remember Scouts being so close (I was in SCV) that early... but
> > then, they weren't aiming at us!
> >
> > I just hated the "box" at Boise. Still have a crick in my neck.
> >
> > -- bill
> I hear ya Bill. Swallowed a lot of spit in 78.
Now, I *liked* the box at Boise. Love doing major horn moves!!! And that's on
french horn, which are MAJOR "condensation generators".
> Also did a show in Salinis(spelling?)
Salinas.
> that year in a rodeo ring.
THAT's no surprise. Salinas and horses and horseshit ("is what the Kilties play..."
<that's a DECADES-long bus song>).
<snip>
-- Catherine
Dan Scerpella
(and probably topical as another Star Wars movie has arrived) is the
rewrite of the entire Star Wars presentation.
Scouts original out of concert was the TIE Fighter attack. A very cool
piece, but was not getting the desired impact. At mid season break,
TIE Fighter was scratched and replaced with the more mass appeal
Opening Star Wars fanfare. From the first performance it was clear
this was a good move.
Vincent Ferrera
We also changed the concert number to "God Bless" just before the season
started (I think we got the new music at april camp). Since I joined in
March, I never actually learned the original concert, which I remember
being referred to as something like "Hi-Dee-Ho".
Not to mention all the rewrites to the end of "Malaguena" and "How Deep
is Your <insert Freudian slip here>".