Age-out rule change and its impact
ZBUTT
points that I've not seen discussed here at all yet.
Wasn't it one of the intentions of the age-out rule to "graduate" adults out
of the activity so that they may get on with their life? And thereby taking
the responsibilities and lessons from guard and appying them to other
aspects of life? There are now going to be people who will NEVER get a life
(i.e. go to college, get a real job), and we all know people who have hung
out their brains and families to dry because of guard and drum corps. Kinda
sad, if you ask me. WGI has ruined one of the most sacred of youth
traditions. This will be regretted. Way to go.
Now, let me make a prediction of the effect this rule change will have on
guard itself. I think that the Independent Open class is going to suffer
from this rule change. I see many IO guards PREMATURELY putting themselves
in to IW just so they can march what were traditionally age-outs and thereby
improve the quality of their talent level. Why be a block-scoring IO guard
all season when you could add some more experienced performers to your cast
and compete with the "big boys" in IW? (Even if your guard isn't quite "up
to it" yet.)
I pray that DCI does NOT lift the roof on ageing-out...when WGI raised their
age-out limit to 22 a number of years ago, DCI was right behind them by
doing the same.
Kevin in New York
Age 27, and aged-out graciously
[please don't reply by e-mail, rather, post your remarks as follow-ups]
Angelee21
>points that I've not seen discussed here at all yet.
>
>Wasn't it one of the intentions of the age-out rule to "graduate" adults out
>of the activity so that they may get on with their life? And thereby taking
>the responsibilities and lessons from guard and appying them to other
>aspects of life? There are now going to be people who will NEVER get a life
>(i.e. go to college, get a real job), and we all know people who have hung
>out their brains and families to dry because of guard and drum corps. Kinda
>sad, if you ask me. WGI has ruined one of the most sacred of youth
>traditions. This will be regretted. Way to go.
I would first like to say that I have never marched Drum Corps or WGI, but I am
a huge fan. Totally by accident, I ended up teaching a color guard right
after high school. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I could never march
past high school. I am now 24, and I am looking for experience outside of my
HS marching band. I am still in graduate school (Masters degree next year),
and I plan on teaching guard a few more years. I would like to march a IW
guard for one year just to learn more techniques and teaching styles. Now is
that so wrong of me wanting to improve myself as a teacher to my color guard?
I don't think so. And I have grown up, thank you. Just looking for the
experience I had to miss as a undergraduate.
Tisha Gratton
Bishop Dwenger HS
We love Dave!!!!
Malloymlm
Rich
Jedi51977
do all of that had as hell work again, and compete with a bunch of "youngins?"
#2: those who want to "come out of retirement"...WHO CARES!!
More power to any and all that want to come back and feel what it's like to
perform again. Since WGI has no senior guard organization, i think that it's
nice to know that anyone can go march a guard provided they have the talent.
Since WGI has already said that those that have officially aged-out of WGI
can't come back, then it doesn't really affect us.
Also, because of DCA, i doubt that DCI will be quick to follow suit and make
Open Class any age. There's no need.
Too all of you "old timers" that want to get out of the "retirement home" and
experience the thrill of performance again, good luck next year! My main
concern is that too many older people will be too intimidated to audition for
the World Class units. Hopefully this won't happen, and i doubt that this will
change much for WGI (Canada has had a senior circut for quite some time, i
believe).
doug
Jedi51977
everything else is the summer after your drum corps age-out.
doug
Malloymlm
age limit for DCI. I wasn't aware of the WGI limit either. I know PASIC is a
free for all however.
Rich
InTheHilt
The elimination of the age out rule is applicable to everyone. ANYONE will be
allowed to perform with a world class unit regardless of when he/she aged out.
Mike
Dzn24
Anyone except percussionists...further proof that WGI discriminates.
Tim
the impression that when you turn 21 you were out.
jackson
inth...@aol.com (InTheHilt) wrote:
> (Minor sidenote)
> The elimination of the age out rule is applicable to everyone. ANYONE will be
> allowed to perform with a world class unit regardless of when he/she aged out.
>
>
> Mike
mike, are you absolutely sure of this? where did you get this
information? just wondering because i have heard different.
Jedi51977
after June 1 of that competitive season, that's your age-out.
For example, my B-day is Sept. 10 '76. Last year was my age-out. My section
leader's B-day was June 1 '76. This year is his age-out.
Confusing? It wouldn't be DCI if it wasn't now would it! :)
doug
jackson
(Dzn24) wrote:
> >(Minor sidenote)
> >The elimination of the age out rule is applicable to everyone. ANYONE will
> >be allowed to perform with a world class unit regardless of when he/she aged
> out.
> >
>
> Anyone except percussionists...further proof that WGI discriminates.
this has nothing to do with "discrimination". wgi percussion has already
had their board meeting for the year 2000. it will be a topic for
discussion at the next board meeting a year from now.
keep in mind that wgi percussion is still in its infancy compared to the
guard activity. time will even things out.
mike jackson
mission viejo hs
wgi percussion board member
Mh31496
come from the governing board and not by the guard vs percussion folks. It
does make the organization look like it's holding a doulble standard, even if
the two activities do make their own rules. It LOOKS like discrimination to
those not as involved.
>> >(Minor sidenote)
>> >The elimination of the age out rule is applicable to everyone.
ANYONE>will>> >be allowed to perform with a world class unit regardless of when
he/she>aged>> out.
>> >
>>
>> Anyone except percussionists...further proof that WGI discriminates.this has
InTheHilt
winter) spoke to Shirley Whitcomb herself. (We both had a pretty vested
interest in the matter)
Mike
Greg and Lisa Rochford
>
> >(Minor sidenote)
> >The elimination of the age out rule is applicable to everyone.
>
As has been stated before . . . the guard people make the guard
decisions and the percussion people make the percussion decisions. When
the percussion people have their meeting they may discuss this issue,
and they may not . . . but it is up to them to decide their own fate.
Dan Sloan
>
> > >(Minor sidenote)
> > >The elimination of the age out rule is applicable to everyone.
> > >be allowed to perform with a world class unit regardless of when
he/she aged
> > out.
> > >
> >
>
already
> had their board meeting for the year 2000. it will be a topic for
> discussion at the next board meeting a year from now.
>
> keep in mind that wgi percussion is still in its infancy compared to
the
> guard activity. time will even things out.
>
> mike jackson
> mission viejo hs
> wgi percussion board member
>
Okay, I'm way out of touch on this one. For clarification, could
someone answer the following questions for me?
(1) Is there no longer an age-out year for WGI Guard? Does this mean
that someone who aged-out years ago can suddenly come back (provided
he/she makes the cut, etc.)?
(2) If (1) is true, then is there any indication whether WGI Percussion
will follow suit in 2001?
(3) If WGI Percussion has no age limit, can I audition for one of your
lines, Mike? I'll gladly remove the *youth* from the activity if
allowed. <smirk>
Also, on the DCI age-out rule:
(1) If you turn 22 after June 1st of the current season, does that mean
you get one more year?
(2) If (1) is true, can someone please go back in time and apply this
rule in the 80s? I'll gladly put my *real life* on hold for one more
year! :)
-Dan
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Jim Wunderlich
Dan,
>(1) Is there no longer an age-out year for WGI Guard? Does this mean
>that someone who aged-out years ago can suddenly come back (provided
>he/she makes the cut, etc.)?
The rule applies to Independent World class color guard ONLY!! But yes, an
ageout COULD come back....
>(2) If (1) is true, then is there any indication whether WGI Percussion
>will follow suit in 2001?
HAHA!!! Dan, don't get any crazy ideas (thinking about dustin' off the old
chops!)...but...who knows...even IF there MIGHT be a change, it wouldn't
happen until the advisory board meeting in May 2000.....
>(3) If WGI Percussion has no age limit, can I audition for one of your
>lines, Mike? I'll gladly remove the *youth* from the activity if
>allowed. <smirk>
...........Mike??......should we??...... ;-)
>Also, on the DCI age-out rule:
>
>(1) If you turn 22 after June 1st of the current season, does that mean
>you get one more year?
>
>(2) If (1) is true, can someone please go back in time and apply this
>rule in the 80s? I'll gladly put my *real life* on hold for one more
>year! :)
LOL!!
--
Jim Wunderlich
Please remove NOSPAM to reply
Jim Wunderlich
chell...@aol.com (ChelleSilk) wrote:
>Ok... I've been seeing all these posts about this and here are my 2 cents:
>
>1. I don't think it will prevent people from getting on with their lives, WG
>usually runs on a weekends only schedule because the members are in school. A
>person could "get on with their life" and have a good 9 to 5 job while they
>still march color guard.
>2. WGI's 3 tier system is pretty good at keeping guards from moving up to a
>higher class too early, the bigger problem seems to be units hanging out in the
>lower class for a bit long... hopefully the changes in promotion rules will
>help this as well.
>3. There has been much speculation on both groups about the lack of ability of
>someone in their 30's to spin... please remember that talent in guard has more
>to do with the willingness to practice your butt off than anything else. That
>has no age limit. I've recently gone back to spinning in Sr. corps and I feel
>I'm at my best now, not back when I was 18, mostly because I've taught and have
>experience on my side.
>4. I don't see the huge influx of "age-outs" going back that other people
>do... yeah, ok, some of us may take a few minutes to dream about going back to
>march with our all time favorite guard, but for most of us the only possibility
>would be a local unit because of family and work obligations. Many of us also
>teach our own units and may not be able to make that kind of time commitment.
>5. This probably won't seep it's way into drum corps because of the schedule.
>People won't be able to "get a life" and take off a summer to do camps and go
>on tour (no, not even teachers... it's not quite enough time) units as well...
>the dynamics of the organizations are a little different.
>6. Finally, I think it's a good idea... a way to leave the door open for
>people who want to do it, it keeps it in one class so that it doesn't disrupt
>the dynamics of the other groups. Let's just wait and see what happens...
>
>
>Michelle
>chell...@aol.com
Michelle - I hear that one of the reasons for changing the rule was to get
more of an International showing....as there are guards in Europe, etc.
that have over age (over 22) members and they are unable to compete at a
WGI regional/championship.
Have you heard about this? Just wondering....
jackson
> (3) If WGI Percussion has no age limit, can I audition for one of your
> lines, Mike? I'll gladly remove the *youth* from the activity if
> allowed. <smirk>
you can audition...but.... :)
ChelleSilk
ChelleSilk
I think it's highly likely though, imagine how such a limitation can affect an
up and coming activity. If we think guard is one of the best kept secrets here
in the U.S., imagine how it is somewhere where there are only 15 or so units in
the country!!!
Erik Paulson
> If your B-day is before June 1, then that's your age-out. If you turn 22 on or
> after June 1 of that competitive season, that's your age-out.
> For example, my B-day is Sept. 10 '76. Last year was my age-out. My section
> leader's B-day was June 1 '76. This year is his age-out.
Umm, no, last year was his age out. He would have been 21 at the start of the
season, and 22 at the end. Under the old rules, he would have not been able
to march because he was 22 at finals. Under the new rules, he was able to. I
got an extra year last year because of it (My birthday was 16 July 1976, so my
ageout was 1998)
-Erik
Jedi51977
season, and 22 at the end. Under the old rules, he would have not been able
to march because he was 22 at finals. Under the new rules, he was able to. I
got an extra year last year because of it (My birthday was 16 July 1976, so my
ageout was 1998)
-Erik
Doh!! i meant June 1, 1977. My bad. He was 21 all summer, and turned 22 THIS
June. My error. This year is his age-out.
doug
bny...@my-deja.com
"ZBUTT" <onetr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
This group is not about WGI.
Barry
Mark
I Sure hope so, I missed a couple of season of DCI due to a family tragedy
in the works, a dieing father. I think that this age-out business beignat 21
sucks, it was great back in the day when kids started marching at 14 and
aged-out at 21. Like hardly anyone went to college then, and those that did
were out by 21, now students leave by 23 or 24, then they go to graduate
school. Whats up with the world changeing but DCI and WGI's DCI like concept
Staying the Same. Makes no sense. Most kids don't march until they are 17 or
18 and them they have three good years then they are out. That is not the
way it was designed to be. You were supposed to get a good 6-8 years of
corps. The rule is out of date, kinda like me. Missing out on marching this
year, my AGEOUT year, really hurts. And it will be two to three more years
till I START my life. SO what you say about that OLD FOLKS. Get a grip. Kids
are kids a little longer today. Senior corps is not as competitve as JR
corps, and the olny way I can march is if I go to the UK. So what
Gives.......Huh???
Mark
LEG at cba
>18 and them they have three good years then they are out. That is not the
>way it was designed to be. You were supposed to get a good 6-8 years of
>corps.
Kids march when they are ready - sometimes at 8 years old. This whole DCI Div
I thing is getting waaayyyy out of hand. Complaining because of your personal
situation doesn't justify a rule change. Besides, junior corps WAS designed by
its' originators to be a youth activity, not some money pit for the 18-21
pseudo-affluent of our society.
Be thankful you were able to spend time with your father and family during a
difficult period. As you grow older, you'll understand more about what I'm
saying.
Forget the ageout deal. That's water under the bridge. Now get on with your
life. If you want to march, I know of at least a dozen senior (gasp!) corps
that you can join. No, it isn't DCI touring, but if that's what you want look
for a staff position and you, too, can sleep on gym floors, yada, yada, yada.
Larry "G"irard, Jr.
Scott Gordon
marching smaller corps while your young, then senior corps when you age-out?
Seems to me to be possible to march one's entire life, from about age 5
until near death.
Scott
Larry Carbonell
Drum Corps doesn't die after age 21. You may think it does because you've
only been in the activity for 3 years. Your only exposure to the activity
has been very limited.
Besides, Sernior Corps not competitive ? Ask the Brigs, Minnesota Brass,
Statesmen, Hurcs, Sun, and others - they will tell you differently. And
besides, mostly senior corps today are made up of 18-22 year old kids. DCA
has become a junior corps division that allows older players to participate.
Every corps works just as hard as the next....don't think otherwise......
I'm 38. I will find some way to participate the rest of my life. - Hey maybe
someday you too can start a drum corps that could eventually grow to the top
12. Then you'd really be able to appreciate what us old-timers have been
saying about working towards the top....even the MAdison Scouts, Cavaliers,
BlueCoats, all started somehow...you think they had 60 horns overnight...
I'm rambling now but I think you get the point.
Larry Carbonell
Director
St. Judes Crusaders Drum and Bugle Corps
www.crusadersofsc.org
Scott Gordon wrote in message <7nhqca$gfj$1...@ultra.sonic.net>...
HYMELAND
(my daughter for instance) someone who could and probably would march 4 to 6
years.While you would march a year or two then go on with your selfish life.
If you had wanted to do it BAD enough you would have done it.I have seen lots
of people with lots of stories who marched under extreme circumstances.The big
difference is I usually heard their stories while sitting next to them on the
bus,on the way to our next show!!!!!!
PEACE
Larry Hyme
AMHorne
>marching smaller corps while your young, then senior corps when you age-out?
>Seems to me to be possible to march one's entire life, from about age 5
>until near death.
>
>Scott
>
membership in which ncludes youth of both sexes from age 14 to 21, it is not
possible to march at an earlier age than 14. This is done for liability
insurance purposes for the most part since BSA offers liability and
supplemental group medical insurance at extremely reasonable rates. Hence the
name of the Madison SCOUTS, which started as a Boy Scout Drum & Bugle Corps
before the Explorer program existed.
LEG at cba
>membership in which ncludes youth of both sexes from age 14 to 21, it is not
>possible to march at an earlier age than 14. This is done for liability
>insurance purposes for the most part since BSA offers liability and
>supplemental group medical insurance at extremely reasonable rates. Hence
>the
>name of the Madison SCOUTS, which started as a Boy Scout Drum & Bugle Corps
>before the Explorer program existed.
This is a gross generalization. Yes, corps that are touring with DCI must have
liability insurance. And yes, being a BSA VENTURE program is one way to obtain
the coverage. BUT I have seen corps that are not part of BSA and can obtain
the insurance through other means. Besides, if you read the fine print the
charter organization who sponsors the BSA unit still holds primary
responsibility for insurance. The BSA coverage is supplemental.
I won't go into the whole BSA thing about Statement of Religious Principle,
National Tour Permits, etc. It would be a long post....
Larry "G"irard, Jr.
bguest
would increase the ageout level, if only by six months, just so I could
have another shot at marching, something I've wanted to do since I was
four. Not to dwell on my own excusses, but when your parents have already
chosen your creative path, and cannot be reasoned with, there's nothing
one can do but sit on her hands and watch and dream. Eventually, I was
able to audition for my dream corp(guess who), but with NO experience that
one day is all I have. It's the classic case of "what if". I say to
myself now, that if by some miracle they change the ageout year this year,
I'd have a better idea of what I need to do and would make it. I walked
into that audition with the knowledge a friend taught me late into a party
the week before. And don't say I didn't want it bad enough, or didn't
work hard enough. From the moment I got the crazy notion in my head that
I was going to do it, I worked my a$$ off. I've never worked that hard in
my life, for anything. I simply lacked the experience, that I now feel I
have. I'm only asking for a six month increase.
--Bridget
"I wanted only to try to live in accord with
the promptings which came from my true self.
Why was that so very difficult?"
Hermann Hesse
Warren Barnett
as 5 for probably as long as drum corps has been around. Granted, many
corps have an age limit where they start, but many do not. Over the
years I have seen many junior corps with very young kids marching and I
have also seen senior corps with little kids (presumably children of
older members) playing everything from cymbals to sopranos to guard.
Personally speaking, my daughter started with Cardinals at age 9. Not
possible to march before 14? Check your brain before you speak.
Warren Barnett
AMHorne wrote:
>
> >So the only valid corps experience is a top-12 caliber corps? What about
> >marching smaller corps while your young, then senior corps when you age-out?
> >Seems to me to be possible to march one's entire life, from about age 5
> >until near death.
> >
> >Scott
> >
Jedi51977
extend the DCI age-out. i thought that Senior Corps WAS for people that
aged-out and wanna go back, or never got to march and want to, etc. WGI changed
their rule because there is no senior circuit. If you want to march corps and
you're aged-out, i'm sure someone here can point you in the direction of the
closest Senior Corps in your area.
doug