Why people in Manga look like European and not like japonese ?
BDunn
looking characters. After all, unless they dye their hair, like 95% or more
(native Japanese - not foreign) people in Japan have black hair and brown/
dark brown eyes. Also, according to some people, varying the hair and eye
color helped distinguish characters better (A-san has blue hair and green
eyes, and B-chan has orange hair and ...).
But I don't believe that all anime/manga characters are like this. I
actually think they look Japanese. I do a lot of my drawing from Japanese
magazines, fashion and otherwise, and people have told me they look like the
Japanese manga style, which I don't see. But I never saw Joe Madrueria's
manga style, either, though, so maybe it's me.
BD
bd...@netmagic.net
Home Page - Artwork and Photography:
http://www2.crosswinds.net/japan/~masakochan/entrance.html
BDunn
too.
>
I think that if you try drawing just the eye of a Japanese or other Asian
person, and compare that with the eye of a Caucasian, you'll find they're
not really that different (depending, of course, on the person). The real
difference lies in the facial structure - Asian faces tend to be more flat,
while Caucasian faces have deeper-set eyes, etc. When a drawing looks more
like a Japanese person or other Asian, it is because the facial structure is
drawn differently. Just try comparing the profile view and semi-rear view
of the face (which will of course vary largely person to person, but there
are basic structures).
Anyway, I'm not lecturing. Just my opinion on the subject. Thanks for
reading with an open mind.
Laurent Gutierrez
Thank You for the answer.
Laurent
David Crowe
: Everithing is in the subject
: Thank You for the answer.
I've never met a Europeon person with eyes as big as Sailor Moon.
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe http://www.primenet.com/~jetman
"Fool! You have not the _strength_ to kill..."
-Slaymaster's last words, Captain Britain TPB
Satscout
I think he meant skin color and eye shape. I've wondered a bit about that too.
Satscout
Benjamin Franz
1) They don't.
2) The reason you think they do is because cartoons are fairly abstracted
drawings. Your own expectations create a great deal of what you 'see'.
If you ask a Japanese person that question you'll just get a strange
look. Because *they* think they look Japanese.
Benjamin Franz
MGHapyBuny
the style we pretty much see today. Back when Disney first released Snow White,
everyone fell in love with the animation including Osamu Tezuka.
Tezuka created the classic manga we know such as Asrto Boy and Kimba the White
Lion. He emulated the style Disney used, making his characters have big eyes
and small mouths and of course white....like Disney.
The style just stuck, and now it's sort of tradition in anime and manga for the
characters to be white, have big ol eyes and such. Some Mangaka really
exaggerate things like the eyes and hair, while others have a more ethnic
look. but all in all, there is really no subliminal meaning to it...just
tradition.
As for hair or eye color....it's just to tell the characters apart. That's why
some have blue or green hair, a color you don't naturally see on a person other
than in anime and manga ^-^".
And if you asked me, anime characters aren't white, nor any particular race.
They seem to be a whole new race altogether.
Hope this helps. I'm not too sure all the info here is correct, but the concept
is. If you read a ton of different manga, you'll see that each mangaka has his
or her own style of drawing and that some of them do choose to make their
characters look Japanese while others may stick with the traditional big eyes
and small mouths and maybe even white skin.
HB
Ronald Spillman
: Everithing is in the subject
: Thank You for the answer.
There are various reasons for this, and just as many opinions,
but the biggest influence may have been from Dr. Osamu Tezuka,
creator of Tetsuwan Atomu (Astroboy), Jungle Taitei (Simba,
uhImean, Kimba ^_^), Black Jack, Hi no Tori, and a litany
of others...Called the God of Manga (believe it or not),
he was a massive influence on Japanese manga and later,
anime; He himself was heavily influenced by Walt Disney
and Max Fleischer's cartoons, and strove to give his manga
a similar feel (this was in the late 40s, during the
Occupation, tho' American films showed in Japan before
WWII). Nowhere else can you see this more clearly than a
film he did about 2 years before his death, called
Legend of the Forest, available from The Right Stuff.
Or, of course, you can go with Yoshiyuki Tomino, who,
when asked at the World SF Convention in 1984 (I am
looking at my copy of Anime-Zine vol.3 for this), he
said, "Remember, we lost the war..." The explanation
he gave for that comment was to the effect that
he thought Japanese didn't like their own faces, and
saw themselves as a cosmopolitan people.
There are other opinions, and count on it, you will
see many of them here, since this is one of the questions
that will ellicit a number of opinions, the other being
questions dealing with subs v. dubs.
--
Ron Spillman
Too old to avoid paying taxes, too young to die.......
[HEADLINE] Midshipman exposes backside in front of Studio Alta: now
shipmates call him Sailor Moon; Film at 11:)
MGHapyBuny
>looking characters. After all, unless they dye their hair, like 95% or more
>(native Japanese - not foreign) people in Japan have black hair and brown/
>dark brown eyes.
Truthfully, a lot of little Japanese girls have wishes to have blonde hair. In
fact I believe Dateline had a small bit on SM a while back and they talked
about why Sailormoon has blonde hair and blue eyes when she is a Japanese
character, and it's because those are features Japanese girls desire sometimes.
It also has to do with the fact that American Pop Stars have big influences in
Japan as well.......I'm sure they are all just praying for Brittaney Spears to
make her International appearance there ^-^".
>But I don't believe that all anime/manga characters are like this. I
>actually think they look Japanese.
Well of course...they're supposed to be......I think ^-^"
HB
Enrique Conty
Laurent Gutierrez <guti...@ec-lille.fr> wrote:
>Everithing is in the subject
>Thank You for the answer.
They don't look "European". They look like cartoon characters.
What do you mean "look Japanese"? Do you expect them to have slit-eyes
and buck teeth like those WW2 cartoons? Please... :-p
--
E n r i q u e C o n t y
co...@enteract.com
Prepare for trouble! And make it double!
http://www.enteract.com/~conty/
Peter Van Huffel
> Everithing is in the subject
> Thank You for the answer.
>
>
>
About 4 days ago I saw a similar thread in fr.rec.anime. As I see that you are
from France, maybe you should consult that thread also. There were some good
discussions and explanations given. A real FAQ question.
Anyway, people in manga don't look European, they are simply drawn according to
certain standards. You could as well ask why the Simpsons are looking Chinese
just because they all have yellow skin.
1) In the world of comics it is not unusual to follow certain examples. That's
why you have schools of drawing styles. A lot of manga artists will admit
having been greatly influenced by those masters. Osamu Tezuka is of course the
prime example here, being the "God of Manga", but there are others too.
2) Japanese, especially women, tend to worship a cult of cute. Big eyes, blond
hair... it is all very cute. Do it yourself. Draw a face with two big eyes and
a face with very narrow eyes. You'll see that the one is cuter than the other.
3) Why are there so many different hair colors (anime)/ hair styles (manga)?
Simple. A lot of manga is drawn very rapidly / anime made on a budget. One of
the easiest ways of differentiating between characters is by their hair style.
4) not every manga series is drawn that way. Only a small percentage of it is
known over here and there are many other styles. Look at a series like "Boku to
issho" for an example of the contrary. It is only that over here a certain
category of manga is dominating.
Do not seek for strange/psychological/racial... explanations for such things in
manga. After all, it is just pure entertainment which we, as fans, tend to take
a little bit too serious from time to time (me too, manga has become a
lifestyle).
--
Peter
---
Remove REMOVE.THIS to email me.
Ryan Simmons
What a bunch of interesting responses! Well, here's what I've heard.
I have heard the Osamu Tezuka and Disney references before. What I have
also heard is that he and many manga-ka after him believed that the eyes
were the key to a character's personality, and that the manga reader would
develop a better sense of each individual character if he or she could see
that character's eyes better. Thus, I don't think it has anything to do
with Japanese wanting to be European or with just imitating Disney, but that
it was a tool for manga-ka to use to get the readers to react to their
characters.
Of course, reading many earlier manga, one can see that the characters' eyes
are not nearly as wide as they tend to be in today's manga. This has
developed over time also as a way to be more "kawaii" and nowadays even
"super-deformed" is becoming popular as a sub-genre of manga and anime. I
believe that this trend has shown that artists are not trying to make
characters look more "white" but more "cute."
As for the color issue, all manga, even the covers, was originally black and
white. When color printing became more popular in Japan, manga companies
could spend the money to make color covers, while keeping the manga inside
black and white. Eventually, in order to attract the attention of readers
(esp. kids), the companies used bright, even bizarre, colors for things like
hair, eyes and clothes. Basically, it started as an advertising gimmick.
And of course, when anime came along, it emulated the colors already used on
the manga covers.
This is a pretty simplistic response, as an entire term paper could probably
be devoted to these subjects. But my intent is to debunk the myth that
Japanese don't like how they look/want to be caucasian. Finally, Sailor
Moon may be blonde, but I'm sure that anyone familiar with manga and anime
knows that MANY different colors are used for the hair color of manga
females, such as red, purple, and, yes, even black, so I don't buy this idea
either that Japanese girls want to be blonde. I am certain that Japanese
people are very proud of how they look and one look at Japanese fashion
magazines will confirm that the Japanese are in no way trying to make
themselves "look" more caucasian (even if they adopt some of the West's
styles)
That's all
Ryan
MGHapyBuny
>Japanese don't like how they look/want to be caucasian. Finally, Sailor
>Moon may be blonde, but I'm sure that anyone familiar with manga and anime
>knows that MANY different colors are used for the hair color of manga
>females, such as red, purple, and, yes, even black, so I don't buy this idea
>either that Japanese girls want to be blonde. I am certain that Japanese
>people are very proud of how they look and one look at Japanese fashion
>magazines will confirm that the Japanese are in no way trying to make
>themselves "look" more caucasian (even if they adopt some of the West's
>styles)
>
>That's all
>
>Ryan
It's not meant to be a realistic thing a person wants, but rather just have
blonde hair and blue eyes, not to be white. Japanese are proud of their
heritage and I'm not saying that all Japanese want to be white, but it's more
of a child's fetish such as to be a magical girl, desire blonde hair. You
really won't notice this in manga in general, but many little girl comics(like
Sailormoon) have their their main female characters take on blonde hair, since
it's thought to be what appeals to little girl's. (You'll notice that it's the
stereotypical hair color of kind and beautiful anime girl.) Of course if you
look at more professional mangaka or mangaka who make manga for older readers,
the characters are more original and are made to appeal to that age group.
Of course it isn't "PC" to say things like this, but then if you go to Japan,it
isn't exactly a PC country either. I could pull out a ton of things that would
shake this newsgroup but I'll stick to just the hair ^-^"
You can be poud of your race and enjoy the look of something completely
different too though.I don't know if you can find it, but there is an avi file
for the Dateline bit about little Japanese girls desiring blonde hair/blue
eyes. But you have to look at it as a thing like wanting to be a super hero,
not a serious dislike of their own race. ^-^
HB
Carlos Ferreira
> About 4 days ago I saw a similar thread in fr.rec.anime. As I see that you are
> from France, maybe you should consult that thread also.
subject : question sur la physionomie des personnages
1st message posted Feb 21.
> There were some good
> discussions and explanations given. A real FAQ question.
Such a good question that there is an answer in fr.rec.anime FAQ.
Does a FAQ exist for rec.arts.manga ?
--------------
Carlos Ferreira
--
sora kara mitsumeru - Hitomi ga aru no sa < Derringer>
sore wa mou hitori - mou hitori no dare ka < Cat's Eye>
hikare au lonesome dream < 2nd OP>
Dragon9
revered mangaka (I don't like his stuff personally, but that's me)
others started imitating the bigger eyed look that he started. Shojo
artists took it to ridiculous heights which can still be seen somewhat
today. Some characters in Shojo stories have HUGE eyes, better to show
all the reflections ad starry, twinkiling lights in them.
As for the why they don't look japanese... well, the Japanese look at
manga and see Japanese people. However, the reason they're not
necessarily drawn to look like Japanese (say like Ryoichi Ikegami), is
that they are drawn in an idealized style. The western look is
idealized in Japanese culture. Little girls can go tot the store and
buy "beauty packs" that contain a small tube of glue to lift the extra
flap of skin that orientals have that give them the almond shaped eye,
to make it look like a more American/European eye. The male characters
tend to be tall (not always, but a lot of them). Female characters tend
to be tall and big breasted. Hair color runs the gamut (except for main
characters in Shonen, they always seem to have black hair).
Most of this is stuff I remember from reading Manga!Manga! by Frederick
Schodt. So yes, they are Japanese characters, and the Japanese see them
as such, but it's how they want to look, not how they actually look.
Evan Miller
--
My Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/soho/lofts/6374
The Dragon Project (Manga Translation)
http://members.tripod.com/~Dragon09
The Project Script Archive
http://members.xoom.com/Dragon9
Evan's Quote of the month:
"It will yet be the proud boast of women that they never
contributed a line to the Bible."
-- George W. Foote
Dragon9
>
> In article <36D4B624...@bellsouth.net>,
> Satscout <sats...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >David Crowe wrote:
> >>
> >> Laurent Gutierrez <guti...@ec-lille.fr> wrote:
> >> : Thank You for the answer.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> David "No Nickname" Crowe http://www.primenet.com/~jetman
> >>
> >> "Fool! You have not the _strength_ to kill..."
> >> -Slaymaster's last words, Captain Britain TPB
> >
> >I think he meant skin color and eye shape. I've wondered a bit about that too.
>
> 1) They don't.
They do.
> 2) The reason you think they do is because cartoons are fairly abstracted
> drawings. Your own expectations create a great deal of what you 'see'.
> If you ask a Japanese person that question you'll just get a strange
> look. Because *they* think they look Japanese.
See my other post farther down the thread.
Evan
Benjamin Franz
Dragon9 <Dra...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Benjamin Franz wrote:
>>
>> In article <36D4B624...@bellsouth.net>,
>> Satscout <sats...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >I think he meant skin color and eye shape. I've wondered a bit about that too.
>>
>> 1) They don't.
>
>They do.
Error 1) The cues for eye shape are there. But you have to know what you
are looking for. The cues are by *convention*. If you don't know
the conventions, you don't see the cues. This is the same reason
I have no trouble telling bi-shounen from girls normally (I exclude
the case where the manga-ka is specifically playing with the gender
roles - they are intentionally confusing the cues.) in manga while
those unfamiliar with manga often can't tell them apart. They don't
know the clothing, hair style etc conventions.
Error 2) Japanese skin color ranges from 20 year tanned mid-western farmer
(esp. in southern Japan) to as white as a Swedish blonde
(esp. in northern Japan).
Caucasians *also* range from 20 year tanned mid-western
farmer to as white as a Swedish blonde.
>> 2) The reason you think they do is because cartoons are fairly abstracted
>> drawings. Your own expectations create a great deal of what you 'see'.
>> If you ask a Japanese person that question you'll just get a strange
>> look. Because *they* think they look Japanese.
>
>See my other post farther down the thread.
I saw it.
--
Benjamin Franz
Marcos Dantas
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>
> * "Laurent Gutierrez" <guti...@ec-lille.fr> Wed, 24 Feb 1999
> | Everithing is in the subject
>
> Japan.
>(...)
Sorry, but in my equally-distancied viewpoint U.S. comics and japanese
mangá have nothing in common.
--
Marcos Dantas
* Hi! I'm a .sig virus! Join the fun and copy me into yours! :)
Unicorn23
characters are looked like Japanese. (i.e., small nose, small eyes)
More clourful the manga is more atractive to young people. Also from the
impression of colour, creator can also signal personality of characters.
(eg, red=pasionate black=bad white=week)
However Japanese manga also different from European cartoon characters.
European cartoon characters can be easily change to 3D characters. But
some manga characters are impossible to change to 3D characters.
(especially those manga characters which have the nose that looks like >
)
Marcos Dantas
>
> Everithing is in the subject
Get a mangá where a european are represented. See? There is a good
chance that this european has really distictive renddering compared to
the others, japanese, characters.
The truth is that japonese drawings are not to meant real visages but a
... "ideographic" representation of characters. The mangá artist aren't
interested in the reproduction of the face lines that we associates to
oriental people. Sometimes he only wanna a cute look, then he really
makes a very big eyes. Sometimes he wanna a "dangerous" look, then he
makes a sppif hair, deep set eyes, no or very thin eyebrows, a jaded
expresion ...
Someeone in someplace of this thread pointed that oriental have a
"flat" face. Well, almost all protagonists in mangá have a flat face
too, sometimes this includes some europeans good guys. This makes a
sharp contrast to aquiline-nosed, incredibilly pale-eyed, thin-faced,
over-growed, superburied eyeset european guys :)
Marcos Dantas
>
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>
> * "Laurent Gutierrez" <guti...@ec-lille.fr> Wed, 24 Feb 1999
>
> Japan.
>(...)
Sorry, but in my equally-distancied viewpoint U.S. comics and japanese
mangá have nothing in common.
--
Marcos Dantas
>
> Everithing is in the subject
> Laurent
Get a mangá where a european are represented. See? There is a good
chance that this european has really distictive renddering compared to
the others, japanese, characters.
The truth is that japonese drawings are not to meant real visages but a
... "ideographic" representation of characters. The mangá artist aren't
interested in the reproduction of the face lines that we associates to
oriental people. Sometimes he only wanna a cute look, then he really
makes a very big eyes. Sometimes he wanna a "dangerous" look, then he
makes a sppif hair, deep set eyes, no or very thin eyebrows, a jaded
expresion ...
Someeone in someplace of this thread pointed that oriental have a
"flat" face. Well, almost all protagonists in mangá have a flat face
too, sometimes this includes some europeans good guys. This makes a
sharp contrast to aquiline-nosed, incredibilly pale-eyed, thin-faced,
over-growed, superburied eyeset european guys :)
stanlee
> Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> >
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> >
> > * "Laurent Gutierrez" <guti...@ec-lille.fr> Wed, 24 Feb 1999
> > | Everithing is in the subject
> >
> > World War II and American comics during the US military occupation of
> > Japan.
> >(...)
>
> Sorry, but in my equally-distancied viewpoint U.S. comics and japanese
> mangá have nothing in common.
>
That does not matter now, but it may have mattered way back then.
As another example, take Disney and Osamu Tezuka,
the father of modern manga and eventually anime.
Tezuka was significantly influenced by Disney toons,
but now there are huge gaps between Japanese and American animations.
Two very different progenies can have a common ancestor.
Laters. =)
Stan
----------
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \____|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ Stanlee Dometita sd0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
| ( _| | U of Rochester sta...@www.cif.rochester.edu
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | | www.cif.rochester.edu/~stanlee
/ \/ \| _ | |\ | uhura.cc.rochester.edu/~sd005e
/___/\/\___\__| |__|___| \____|
Marcos Dantas
>
(...)
>
> * Marcos Dantas <ma...@domain.com.br> Sun, 28 Feb 1999
> | Sorry, but in my equally-distancied viewpoint U.S. comics and japanese
> | mangá have nothing in common.
>
> animation brought to Japan during the Allied occupation following World War
> II.
> (...)
Yes, I guess you are right in this point, but Walt Disney's characters
didn't look european. They looked like mice :). So, IMHO, U.S occupation
isn't the perfect answer to the thread subject.
Someone in this thread made a complement to your argument: mangá isn't
about photorealistic rendering, instead it is about "cartoonish"
rendering.
I'm a participant in a brazilian list where it was reccentily discuted
the "practical aproach" in mangá drawings and the "evolution" in gringo
comics (sorry ;). One of our _unbiased_ (I swear) opinion is that mangá
drawings and some recents USA comics (not Humberto Ramos) are more
narrative oriented and that obliged a more expressive and simbolic
(abstract?) rendering. Brazilian "quadrinhos" goes a little in that
line.
I my view, the majority of USA comics have a strong influence of
ilo/fine arts rendering, with more strict requirements of proportions,
anatomy, shadowing etc. Despite the obvious historical influences, like
yourself pointed, Japan and USA have very distinct ways to develop the
same root. Disney gave to you (and us too) almost only Crumb and Jeff
Smith. The majority of north-americans, IMHO, are disciples of Eisner,
Kirby etc. The impact of Tezuka's cartoons in Japan was bigger. That's
was the reason for my last afirmation
Sorry for the lame English and my lateness.
Marcos Dantas
> That does not matter now, but it may have mattered way back then.
>
> As another example, take Disney and Osamu Tezuka,
> the father of modern manga and eventually anime.
> Tezuka was significantly influenced by Disney toons,
> but now there are huge gaps between Japanese and American animations.
>
> Two very different progenies can have a common ancestor.
> Laters. =)
>
> Stan
Yes, you are right. I posted something in that line to Stainless Steel
Rat. My point is that, despite influences, japanese and north-americans
have distincts ways to made the same things. The funny thing is that, to
my eyes, the "american mangas" are so americans... :)
MGHapyBuny
characters act, dress, and even look depleats the notion they look white.
HB
Gilles Poitras
<rat...@peorth.gweep.net> wrote:
> Where and when did Tezuka get those Disney 'toons? From American GIs
> stationed in Japan following World War II, like I said.
No, his family were serious movie buffs and collected films before the war.
Actually I don't think Disney had as much influence as Fleisher, hell
Tezuka even drops Fleisher characters into crowds at times.
I still think the mouse is a yakuza.
--
Gilles Poitras
Author: Anime Companion
http://www.sirius.com/~cowpunk/
Erky-chan
<YT...@student.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>However Japanese manga also different from European cartoon characters.
>European cartoon characters can be easily change to 3D characters. But
>some manga characters are impossible to change to 3D characters.
>(especially those manga characters which have the nose that looks like >
>)
Or in shows like the Taiho Shichauzo and Ranma OAVs where, when people
are viewed in profile, they seem to be talking out of the corners of
their mouths or, worse, through a hole in their cheeks. 8)
Remove ".junkjunk" to reply
---
"Never trust a person who, when left alone in a room with a teacosy,
doesn't try it on."
-- Billy Connolly, "World tour of Australia"
Erky-chan
<guti...@ec-lille.fr> wrote:
>Everithing is in the subject
>Thank You for the answer.
I think there are other reasons that don't appear to have been
discussed here, more technical ones.
Skin tone:
In a black and white publication, it would be difficult to properly
represent the Japanese olive complexion. This would require some
messy shading and more often than not, would result in the character
looking rather mottled and perhaps suffering from a bad dose of the
measles.
In other words, the pale skin tone is simply more convenient to work
with.
Eye size and shape:
Since not all manga are published in a large and bulky format (A4 or
foolscap sizes), drawings of the characters are not always that big.
If the characters eyes were in a more reasonable proportion the rest
of their face, it would make it harder for the reader to distinguish
their moods (not to mention harder for the artist to render their
expressions in the first place) expect in extreme close ups.
Nobody wants to have to carry a magnifying glass around to work out
exactly what the character is thinking or feeling.
But when all is said and typed, almost everyone has to agree that the
manga stereotype is very easy on the eyes, isn't it?
Marcos Dantas
>
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> Hash: SHA1
>
> * "Laurent Gutierrez" <guti...@ec-lille.fr> Wed, 24 Feb 1999
>
> Japan.
>(...)
Sorry, but in my equally-distancied viewpoint U.S. comics and japanese
mangá have nothing in common.
--
C. Hanson
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Marcos Dantas wrote:
> Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> >
> > * "Laurent Gutierrez" <guti...@ec-lille.fr> Wed, 24 Feb 1999
> > | Everithing is in the subject
> >
> > World War II and American comics during the US military occupation of
> > Japan.
> >(...)
>
> Sorry, but in my equally-distancied viewpoint U.S. comics and japanese
> mangá have nothing in common.
>
Actually, I read a history of comics that talked about how US comics became
very popular in Japan. Before then, they really didn't have much in the
way of comics. The Japanese at first imitated the American comics, but
then developed their own style, which, interestingly, some Americans are
now imitating.
So, US comics and Manga do have a common history, at least.
And, there are a good number of US comics that imitate Japanese style. So
it's not quite true to say they have nothing in common.
-Corynn-
C. Hanson
an interview I read with one Manga artist. I forget who it was, but when
he was asked, "Why do all Manga/Anime characters look American?" he
replied that he didn't think they looked American at all. He said one
reason they don't all have dark hair is because that would get boring, and
it would also be hard to tell characters apart if they all had the same
color hair.
I've never know a Japanese person to ask why Manga characters all look
european, I've only heard europeans ask that. I think people are just
seeing what they themselves are. It makes it easier to understand a
character if you think of them more like yourself.
-Corynn-
ho de anexetastos bios ou biotos.
"The unexamined life is not worth living." -- Apologia
What is the sound of one Ekans clapping?
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On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Erky-chan wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:09:05 +0100, "Laurent Gutierrez"
> <guti...@ec-lille.fr> wrote:
>
> >Everithing is in the subject
Wei-Hwa Huang
>On Mon, 01 Mar 1999 07:12:37 +1300, Unicorn23
><YT...@student.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>>However Japanese manga also different from European cartoon characters.
>>European cartoon characters can be easily change to 3D characters. But
>>some manga characters are impossible to change to 3D characters.
>>(especially those manga characters which have the nose that looks like >
>>)
>Or in shows like the Taiho Shichauzo and Ranma OAVs where, when people
>are viewed in profile, they seem to be talking out of the corners of
>their mouths or, worse, through a hole in their cheeks. 8)
This is no worse than, say, Mickey Mouse, who has ears that stay in place
relative to the camera as his head turns ...
--
Wei-Hwa Huang, whu...@ugcs.caltech.edu, http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Pop", "Soda", or "Coke"? http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~almccon/pop_soda/
Wei-Hwa Huang
>I think there are other reasons that don't appear to have been
>discussed here, more technical ones.
>Skin tone:
>In a black and white publication, it would be difficult to properly
>represent the Japanese olive complexion. This would require some
>messy shading and more often than not, would result in the character
>looking rather mottled and perhaps suffering from a bad dose of the
>measles.
Japanese "olive" complexion? You must have awfully pale olives over
there in Australia. And since when does a "black and white" publication
"properly represent" the pink of Caucasians?
Most manga isn't black and white anyway in the original publication --
white paper is expensive. Manga tends to be black or washed-out grey
ink on cheap pastel-colored paper, generally yellow, green, blue, or
red. Black and white is only for the tankobon. In some older manga,
not even the ink is black!
Without using half-toning techniques, your choices are ink color or
background color. Background color almost always matches Japanese
skin color better than ink color. It sure as h*** doesn't mean that
is it "improperly represented."
>Eye size and shape:
>Since not all manga are published in a large and bulky format (A4 or
>foolscap sizes), drawings of the characters are not always that big.
>If the characters eyes were in a more reasonable proportion the rest
>of their face, it would make it harder for the reader to distinguish
>their moods (not to mention harder for the artist to render their
>expressions in the first place) expect in extreme close ups.
>Nobody wants to have to carry a magnifying glass around to work out
>exactly what the character is thinking or feeling.
Bzzt! At least 95%, maybe more, of all multiple-page manga is
published in a large and bulky format, and that is the format the
readers first see them in. (This is not counting exceptions such
as newspaper manga or manga one might find in a text magazine.)
This theory is also shot down by pointing out that there are many
manga that do not have large eyes. In any case, moods are more often
distinguished by other facial features such as the mouth, or occasionally
even text. Try cutting out just the eyes from your favorite manga.
If you can identify 80% of the moods just from the eyes, I'll be
impressed.
>But when all is said and typed, almost everyone has to agree that the
>manga stereotype is very easy on the eyes, isn't it?
Only if one is used to it. Otherwise, it is quite jarring. But this
is true of all artistic styles.
C. Hanson
On 11 Mar 1999, Handel Low wrote:
>
> Finally, Schodt said that it is very possible that the popularity of
> American kewpie dolls had an influence in early round-eyed manga. To
> this day, there is a product in Japan whose mascot is the kewpie doll (I
> forget what the product was).
>
Mayonaise. I just happened to read about it in the last Futaba kun
change.
-Corynn-
Handel Low
Japan Society here in New York, I must have rolled my eyes. But the
responses and explanations were the most interesting I've heard yet!
The question: "Why do they have Caucasian eyes?" (if I recall correctly)
The panelists: Frederick Schodt, Fasanosuke Natsume, Mamoru Oshii.
Natsume opened by saying (like someone else did earlier in this thread)
that no anatomically plausible human had anime-sized eyes, Caucasian or
not, and if we ever encountered someone who did, we should alert a
medical research center immediately!
He then pointed out that not ALL anime and manga characters are
round-eyed. Sometimes large eyes are used to differentiate between
childhood and adulthood, innocence and sinister-ness (I know that's
probably not a word), etc. (think: Saitoh vs., I don't know, Kenshin. He
didn't give any specific examples, this is just my additional
unsolicited commentary).
It helped that he illustrated his analysis on his yellow pad.
Oshii added that it's a style thing; it's what otaku prefer to see (he
also said that otaku style preferences are also why limited animation
will probably not disappear soon). Larger eyes also make some
expressions easier to convey, he said.
I remember this next part pretty well: Oshii then said something to the
effect of, Anyway, large eyes as an illustrative style in manga do seem
very cute, and can sometimes help hide the fact that an artist can't
draw very well (!). As long as the eyes convey cuteness, many fans may
overlook other deficiencies in the art (!!). Unfortunately, these days,
the eyes seem to be getting bigger and bigger!
Finally, Schodt said that it is very possible that the popularity of
American kewpie dolls had an influence in early round-eyed manga. To
this day, there is a product in Japan whose mascot is the kewpie doll (I
forget what the product was).
Interestingly enough, Oshii's "Jinroh," which premiered at the end of
the day, did NOT feature the exaggerated round-eye style which many
associate with Japanese anime and manga.
Look, the symposium was about two months ago and I admit my memory's not
rain-man perfect, okay? But these answers were so insightful that they
made a pretty strong impression on me (as you can see by the length of
this post I'm outta here)
HANDEL