FUDGE as an IF system

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pblock

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Dec 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM12/6/00
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"Joe Mason" wrote...
> Well I just glanced at the FUDGE rules, and I have to say I don't think
they'd
> make a very good back-end for an IF RPG.
>
> The reason is that they're intended to be free-form. The intro says that
> they're intended for a GM who doesn't mind making a lot of snap decisions.
> In fact, that's where the name comes from - the fudge factor. The thing
is,
> computers just aren't good at that. What we want for an IF game system
would
> be one where everything is modelled so that the program doesn't have to
"make
> choices".
>

I would agree with you except for the fact that I do not.

First of all, for any RPG converted to IF, it'd be using a matter of coding
most situations individually, as they no-doubt already are but using the RPG
rules system as the structure for how the situation is resolved.

IME more complex RPGs, especially those with "rules for every conceivable
situation," most just have really really complex rules for combat, like
Rolemaster.

FUDGE OTOH has a simple system which is flexible for nearly any situation,
so it would work well as a basis for structure in IF.

This, of course, is not to say that other RPGs can't work for IF too,
including this Alternate Realities system you've mentioned. I just think
you're not seeing how FUDGE would be applied the way I am.

Joe Mason

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Dec 6, 2000, 8:23:04 PM12/6/00
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Well I just glanced at the FUDGE rules, and I have to say I don't think they'd
make a very good back-end for an IF RPG.

The reason is that they're intended to be free-form. The intro says that
they're intended for a GM who doesn't mind making a lot of snap decisions.
In fact, that's where the name comes from - the fudge factor. The thing is,
computers just aren't good at that. What we want for an IF game system would
be one where everything is modelled so that the program doesn't have to "make
choices".

So I'm starting to take a look at the other free RPG's out there. (The main
criteria being "can I use this in a game without paying royalties".) There
are a lot more than I expected. Of course, it's hard to judge quality without
playtesting, since there's no big reputation to back most of these up.

I'd promise to let you know what I find, exact I'm only doing this to take my
mind off exams, so by tomorrow I'll probably have forgotten all about it.

I'll leave you with this one which seems like a natural for use in a CRPG:
the Alternate Realities system. It's generic. It's object-oriented. It uses
advanced math.

It's GPL'd.

It scares me.

http://etymon.net/AR/

Joe

Gadget

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Dec 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM12/7/00
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On Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:25:30 -0500, "pblock" <eev...@dreamscape.com>
wrote:

<snip another RPG discussion>

Don't you people get it?? You already use an RPG system when you play
IF. It is called: THE CODE. This deals with every conceivable
situation in the game as good as it can (is coded).

It has stats: they're called variables.
It has a game master: It's called the author.

Making RPG stats visible in IF is a step back: It's like tearing the
hood of off a finely tuned car to see the engine move when you drive.
Why would you do that?

If, on the other hand, you wnat to intruduce the *setting* of an
existing RPG (like Forgotten Realms or whatever) then you would be on
to something.

I think.


-
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It's a plane...
No, its.. Gadget?
-----------------
number one Dutch gaming site:
Http://www.villagemagazine.nl/games.php3

Knight37

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Dec 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM12/7/00
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Quoting gad...@SPAMBLOCKhaha.demon.nl (Gadget) from Thu, 07 Dec 2000
17:23:53 GMT:

>On 7 Dec 2000 16:06:51 GMT, knig...@gamespotmail.com (Knight37) made
>the world a better place by saying:
>
>>Quoting gad...@SPAMBLOCKhaha.demon.nl (Gadget) from Thu, 07 Dec 2000
>>14:33:28 GMT:


>>
>>>Don't you people get it?? You already use an RPG system when you play
>>>IF. It is called: THE CODE. This deals with every conceivable
>>>situation in the game as good as it can (is coded).
>>>
>>>It has stats: they're called variables.
>>>It has a game master: It's called the author.
>>>
>>>Making RPG stats visible in IF is a step back: It's like tearing the
>>>hood of off a finely tuned car to see the engine move when you drive.
>>>Why would you do that?
>>

>>Why do people buy electronic gizmos that are clear plastic so they can
>>see the parts?
>
>Sure, but do people have to fiddle with all the parts inside to keep
>the gizmo working?

Some people might. I take things apart sometimes if they break to see if
it's something easy to fix.

>>I don't know, but some people seem to like it.


>>
>>>If, on the other hand, you wnat to intruduce the *setting* of an
>>>existing RPG (like Forgotten Realms or whatever) then you would be on
>>>to something.
>>

>>Of course, you'd have to get permission from the owner of that setting.
>>"Uh, WOTC, can I write a text adventure set in FR?" "No."
>
>Darn, I knew I should have incorporated some sort of watertight legal
>document, explaining that THIS WAS AN EXAMPLE.

I can't think of a single established RPG company who would be likely
to allow their IP to be used in a text adventure. I'd LOVE to be proved
wrong on this.

--

Knight37

"Can I play with madness?
The prophet stared at his crystal ball.
Can I play with madness?
There's no vision there at all!"
-- Iron Maiden

Gadget

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Dec 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM12/7/00
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On 7 Dec 2000 19:23:03 GMT, knig...@gamespotmail.com (Knight37) made

the world a better place by saying:

>>Darn, I knew I should have incorporated some sort of watertight legal
>>document, explaining that THIS WAS AN EXAMPLE.
>
>I can't think of a single established RPG company who would be likely
>to allow their IP to be used in a text adventure. I'd LOVE to be proved
>wrong on this.

*sigh* again: it was an example. Lets put it in other words:


I never claimed, stated or said that you should use an established RPG
setting or that there would be no problems with copyright. I said:

Visible stats in IF are bad, m'kay?

Tell a *story*, make a *game*, but don't *show* the stats, dice rolls
and what have you when you play the game.


--
"So... you've compiled your own Kernel... Your skills are now complete..."
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It's a plane
No it's... Gadget?

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pblock

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Dec 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM12/7/00
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"Jasper McChesney" <jas...@student.umass.edu> wrote in message
news:3A2FF302...@student.umass.edu...


> I
> don't think we can ever really make an IF that plays much at all like a
> real table-top RPG:
>

Making an IF that plays like a TT RPG wasn't my plan (don't MUDs do that? I
reallly haven't checked) But, OK.

> 2. The plot must, be definition, by premade or be nonexistant with a
> computer
> (theoretically, I suppose, randomness and creation algorithms could
> be
> used, but they wouldn't be very good) whereas real RPGs are very
> flexible.

Only as flexible as the GM. You'd be surprised how bad some GMs can be.
;-)

> 3. The situations that come up in T.T. RPGs are very complex, and just
> too
> difficult for a computer to arbitrate, as Joe points out.

Again, not my idea, per se (it took your comments here to make me realise
what it was I was suggesting, thanks!)

You see, in every IF, the author sets up a situation and figures out a
solution, possible based on some form of system of their own devising.
My idea is that TT RPG rules can be borrowed to for this purpose, to give
structure to the game, consistency to the author's game which might not be
there otherwise, and to give authors the option of not having to create
their own system.

Of course, IF is more like solo adventures or those
choose-your-own-adventure books. I would've suggeated a solo system, like
Fighting Fantasy, but I don't know of any such system that also has an open
licence like FUDGE.

Emulating TT RPGs is of course, impossible unless you can put more than one
player in the same game. (Again, MUDs?) But IFs are generally solo play.

Another possibility for using RPG rules: continuing characters.

That is, each player could create a character with unique abilities and
these character can be run through a series of IF games (obviously based in
the same world/setting/style/whatever) retaining any equipment, points,
what-have-you.

I am just kicking around ideas here. I can see that I probably really ought
to erite a couple so people can see exactly what I mean, and maybe then
they'll like it.

But then, I'd have to learn TADS and spend time doing THAT instead of
posting here. ;-)

Jasper McChesney

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Dec 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM12/7/00
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pblock wrote:
>
> Making an IF that plays like a TT RPG wasn't my plan (don't MUDs
> do that? I reallly haven't checked) But, OK.

Hmm, well MUDs do solve the no-interactivity part, but they aren't
quite like Table-Top role-playing. Pretty close, depending on the
game, but MUDs have a lot of features that single-play IF can
(unfortunately) never have. Namely, other players, a dynamically
changing world (via builders) and real-live immortals who do alter
the world and set things straight from time to time.

> Only as flexible as the GM. You'd be surprised how bad some GMs can be.
> ;-)

Hehe, no I wouldn't :) But I see your point.

> Again, not my idea, per se (it took your comments here to make me realise
> what it was I was suggesting, thanks!)

Glad to be of service.

> You see, in every IF, the author sets up a situation and figures out a
> solution, possible based on some form of system of their own devising.
> My idea is that TT RPG rules can be borrowed to for this purpose, to give
> structure to the game, consistency to the author's game which might not be
> there otherwise, and to give authors the option of not having to create
> their own system.

Okay, I can see this. I guess if I were doing it I'd never bother using
another system. My reason being that I can design something that is
specifically made for my purposes just as easily as adapting a pre-made
one. As flexible as FUDGE may, be it's still been designed for the
table
and I think that a system designed just for IF might handle things
better.

> Emulating TT RPGs is of course, impossible unless you can put more than one
> player in the same game. (Again, MUDs?) But IFs are generally solo play.
>
> Another possibility for using RPG rules: continuing characters.

A cool idea that has, in fact, been implemented once, a long while ago.
I
doubt that many people remember it, but there was a Text-Adventure
system
called Eamon a while back. Originally for the C-64 (then ported to
Amiga,
Atari ST, IBM, and maybe others), Eamon was a cross between Nethack
style
adventures and IF. You had a persistent character who returned ot the
guild
hall after each adventure. You picked up items, got followers for the
course
of one adventure or another, and pretty much just had fun. It was
mostly
combat and exploration, but puzzles also existed in a limited fashion
(the
parser was fairly simple). You might want to look into it.

> But then, I'd have to learn TADS and spend time doing THAT instead of
> posting here. ;-)

Always a difficulty :)

pblock

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Dec 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM12/7/00
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"Jasper McChesney" <jas...@student.umass.edu> wrote in message
news:3A305D66...@student.umass.edu...

> As flexible as FUDGE may, be it's still been designed for the
> table
> and I think that a system designed just for IF might handle things
> better.

Well, FUDGE is designed as a build-your-own-RPG-system system. So several
of the FUDGE concepts could easily be used to make this IF system. IF
FUDGE? iFUDGE? IFudge?

Whatever.

FUDGE is flexible to a fault, in this respect, not having a solid set of
rules, but a collection of concepts that the player (GM) has to assemble
him/herself. It shouldn't be too difficult to figure out a set of rules,
using FUDGE as a guide, that would work well for IF purposes.

Not that I own stock in their company. FUDGE is just the better option I
can think of. We'd probably have to build from scratch if weren't going to
use FUDGE.

Knight37

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Dec 7, 2000, 11:06:51 AM12/7/00
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Quoting gad...@SPAMBLOCKhaha.demon.nl (Gadget) from Thu, 07 Dec 2000
14:33:28 GMT:

>Don't you people get it?? You already use an RPG system when you play
>IF. It is called: THE CODE. This deals with every conceivable
>situation in the game as good as it can (is coded).
>
>It has stats: they're called variables.
>It has a game master: It's called the author.
>
>Making RPG stats visible in IF is a step back: It's like tearing the
>hood of off a finely tuned car to see the engine move when you drive.
>Why would you do that?

Why do people buy electronic gizmos that are clear plastic so they can see
the parts?

I don't know, but some people seem to like it.

>If, on the other hand, you wnat to intruduce the *setting* of an
>existing RPG (like Forgotten Realms or whatever) then you would be on
>to something.

Of course, you'd have to get permission from the owner of that setting.
"Uh, WOTC, can I write a text adventure set in FR?" "No."

--

Knight37

Johnny Ringo: "Doesn't anyone want to play for blood?!"
Doc Holiday: "I'm you're huckleberry... Blood's just my game."
-- "Tombstone"

Gadget

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Dec 7, 2000, 12:23:53 PM12/7/00
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On 7 Dec 2000 16:06:51 GMT, knig...@gamespotmail.com (Knight37) made

the world a better place by saying:

>Quoting gad...@SPAMBLOCKhaha.demon.nl (Gadget) from Thu, 07 Dec 2000

>14:33:28 GMT:
>
>>Don't you people get it?? You already use an RPG system when you play
>>IF. It is called: THE CODE. This deals with every conceivable
>>situation in the game as good as it can (is coded).
>>
>>It has stats: they're called variables.
>>It has a game master: It's called the author.
>>
>>Making RPG stats visible in IF is a step back: It's like tearing the
>>hood of off a finely tuned car to see the engine move when you drive.
>>Why would you do that?
>
>Why do people buy electronic gizmos that are clear plastic so they can see
>the parts?
>

Sure, but do people have to fiddle with all the parts inside to keep
the gizmo working?

>I don't know, but some people seem to like it.


>
>>If, on the other hand, you wnat to intruduce the *setting* of an
>>existing RPG (like Forgotten Realms or whatever) then you would be on
>>to something.
>
>Of course, you'd have to get permission from the owner of that setting.
>"Uh, WOTC, can I write a text adventure set in FR?" "No."

Darn, I knew I should have incorporated some sort of watertight legal


document, explaining that THIS WAS AN EXAMPLE.

Jasper McChesney

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Dec 7, 2000, 3:28:50 PM12/7/00
to
Joe Mason wrote:
>
> Well I just glanced at the FUDGE rules, and I have to say I don't think they'd
> make a very good back-end for an IF RPG.
>
> The reason is that they're intended to be free-form. The intro says that
> they're intended for a GM who doesn't mind making a lot of snap decisions.
> In fact, that's where the name comes from - the fudge factor. The thing is,
> computers just aren't good at that. What we want for an IF game system would
> be one where everything is modelled so that the program doesn't have to "make
> choices".

This is exactly my thought, buyt it concerns all of this IF RPG stuff.

I
don't think we can ever really make an IF that plays much at all like a
real table-top RPG:

1. There's no interaction with other people. RPing is all about this.


2. The plot must, be definition, by premade or be nonexistant with a
computer
(theoretically, I suppose, randomness and creation algorithms could
be
used, but they wouldn't be very good) whereas real RPGs are very
flexible.

3. The situations that come up in T.T. RPGs are very complex, and just
too
difficult for a computer to arbitrate, as Joe points out.

If we can't do any of these things, that are fundamental to RPGs, we
shouldn't
pretend that we're modelling table-top games at all (i.e. by using a
pre-made
RPG system like FUDGE). If we want and RPG style game (more like
CRPG/Nethack
that is) I don't see any problem with that, but a real RPG rule system
is too
complicated for a computer to do well by.

Jasper McChesney

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Dec 7, 2000, 3:31:37 PM12/7/00
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pblock wrote:
>
> FUDGE OTOH has a simple system which is flexible for nearly any situation,
> so it would work well as a basis for structure in IF.

I think the problem with FUDGE is not that is not flexible, but that it
cannot possibly hope to do everything that a GM does. A computer
implementation may be able to handle a good number of situations, but
it will not, in a generic way, be able to resolve complex situations.
So if you're going to have a rule-set, why not go for something more
restrictive that will thus be able to handle (well) anything you throw
at it. It'd rather that than a simplistic interpretation of my command.

Gunther Schmidl

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Dec 8, 2000, 3:13:14 AM12/8/00
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> Not that I own stock in their company. FUDGE is just the better option I
> can think of. We'd probably have to build from scratch if weren't going
to
> use FUDGE.

Just maybe, "we" don't want a unified RPG system based on FUDGE? FWIW, I
looked at it yesterday and found the textual descriptions of stats to be
more than awkward (read: laughable).

-- Gunther, a Good Swordsman with Excellent Swordfighting, a Good Armor
and...


Jasper McChesney

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Dec 8, 2000, 11:53:00 AM12/8/00
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pblock wrote:
>
> FUDGE is flexible to a fault, in this respect, not having a solid set of
> rules, but a collection of concepts that the player (GM) has to assemble
> him/herself. It shouldn't be too difficult to figure out a set of rules,
> using FUDGE as a guide, that would work well for IF purposes.

True enough. I should probably apologize for seeming (at times) so
against this idea. I have a bias though, which is many years of
creating my own RPG systems (not that I want to appear to be up on
some high horse -- that's just where I'm coming from). Thus, to me,
FUDGE is not of too much use, but don't let that spoil it for you :)


So, about this idea of persistent characters, has anyone else checked
out Eamon since I mentioned it? I always wished that a new, up-to-date
system like this existed (with a more complex parser and better
compatability). I don't know much about savce game formats, so maybe
someone could tell us if TADS or Inform could be used to do this. It
would sure be a great project.

Gadget

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Dec 8, 2000, 9:54:39 AM12/8/00
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It is actually mentioned in Nelson's Inform manual. It is very
possible and I am thinking of a way to do something olong these lines
after I finished my current project.

Knight37

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Dec 8, 2000, 11:53:53 AM12/8/00
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Quoting gad...@SPAMBLOCKhaha.demon.nl (Gadget) from Thu, 07 Dec 2000
22:06:09 GMT:

>On 7 Dec 2000 19:23:03 GMT, knig...@gamespotmail.com (Knight37) made


>the world a better place by saying:
>
>

>>>Darn, I knew I should have incorporated some sort of watertight legal
>>>document, explaining that THIS WAS AN EXAMPLE.
>>

>>I can't think of a single established RPG company who would be likely
>>to allow their IP to be used in a text adventure. I'd LOVE to be proved
>>wrong on this.
>
>*sigh* again: it was an example. Lets put it in other words:
>
>I never claimed, stated or said that you should use an established RPG
>setting or that there would be no problems with copyright. I said:

Yep. Them are other words, alright. Here's what I was responding to:

"If, on the other hand, you wnat to intruduce the *setting* of an
existing RPG (like Forgotten Realms or whatever) then you would be on
to something."

If that's not what you meant, you can hardly fault me for responding to
what you typed. And now, on to more important things...


>Visible stats in IF are bad, m'kay?

I think it's a matter of preference. It's not "bad", it's a matter of
taste. It should be an option.

>Tell a *story*, make a *game*, but don't *show* the stats, dice rolls
>and what have you when you play the game.

Matter of taste. There's a reason Bioware put that in as an option in BG2.

--

Knight37

"Blasphemy! Oh, you'll smoke a turd in hell for that one!"
-- Robin Williams in "The Survivors"

pblock

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Dec 9, 2000, 1:42:22 AM12/9/00
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"Gadget" <gad...@SPAMBLOCKhaha.demon.nl> wrote in message
news:3a3091a...@news.scarlet.nl...


> Now that IS a good idea... I know games like Hero's Quest use this
> system: carry a character over from one game to the next...

I know of three Hero's Quest off hand, one is a board game from Milton
Bradley later turned into a computer game, one is another name associated
with the RPG RuneQuest which has since become Hero Wars thanks to the above
board game, the third is a computer game which had to change its name, also
because of the above board game's copyright.

Which one are you talking about?


Gene Wirchenko

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Dec 9, 2000, 4:58:03 AM12/9/00
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Jasper McChesney <jas...@student.umass.edu> wrote:

Replace the word "FUDGE" with "IF" and reread the above
paragraph. Or try "sentence parsers".

It needn't be perfect to be fun.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.

Gadget

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Dec 9, 2000, 7:34:39 AM12/9/00
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On Sat, 9 Dec 2000 01:42:22 -0500, "pblock" <eev...@dreamscape.com>

made the world a better place by saying:

>

The third one. The Sierra game, now known as Quest for Glory. Sorry
about that, but for me those games will always be Hero's Quest.

Jasper McChesney

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Dec 9, 2000, 11:20:23 AM12/9/00
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Gadget wrote:
>
> The third one. The Sierra game, now known as Quest for Glory. Sorry
> about that, but for me those games will always be Hero's Quest.

Those were excellent. Just for reference BTW, the board game from
Milton Bradley was, I presume to avoid copyright issues, "Hero Quest"
instead of "Hero's Quest"

pblock

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Dec 9, 2000, 12:12:44 PM12/9/00
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"Jasper McChesney" <jas...@student.umass.edu> wrote in message
news:3A325BC7...@student.umass.edu...

> Those were excellent. Just for reference BTW, the board game from
> Milton Bradley was, I presume to avoid copyright issues, "Hero Quest"
> instead of "Hero's Quest"

AFAIK, Sierra's Hero's Quest had to change their name because of Milton
Bradley's (and Game Workshop's) Hero Quest board game.

I may be wrong, but it was Sierra who changed their name to the completely
different Quest for Glory. Games Workshop bought Hero Quest back from
Milton Bradley and released Advanced Hero Quest, and later Warhammer Quest
to tie-in with their successful table-top wargame.


pblock

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Dec 9, 2000, 2:10:49 PM12/9/00
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"Gene Wirchenko" <ge...@shuswap.net> wrote in message
news:3a31ff98...@news.shuswap.net...

> Replace the word "FUDGE" with "IF" and reread the above
> paragraph.

> >I think the problem with Interactive Fiction is not that is not flexible,


but that it
> >cannot possibly hope to do everything that a GM does. A computer
> >implementation may be able to handle a good number of situations, but
> >it will not, in a generic way, be able to resolve complex situations.
> >So if you're going to have a rule-set, why not go for something more
> >restrictive that will thus be able to handle (well) anything you throw
> >at it. It'd rather that than a simplistic interpretation of my command.

>Or try "sentence parsers".

> >I think the problem with a sentence parser is not that is not flexible,


but that it
> >cannot possibly hope to do everything that a GM does. A computer
> >implementation may be able to handle a good number of situations, but
> >it will not, in a generic way, be able to resolve complex situations.
> >So if you're going to have a rule-set, why not go for something more
> >restrictive that will thus be able to handle (well) anything you throw
> >at it. It'd rather that than a simplistic interpretation of my command.

> It needn't be perfect to be fun.

OK, now what did I win?

Of course, as with the table top RPG or even a piece of IF it's all a matter
of whether it gets implimented or not. The GM might not want to allow the
players to get the really cool hover tanks, so whenever they manage to get
one, it runs out of gas or the bad guys destroy it or whatever. (Really
happened to a friend of mine.)

In any case, in both IF and RPGs, unforeseen or unintended courses of action
may come up or be attempted by the player.

It is the peculiarities or the two art forms how they are handled.

Generally, in RPGs it is the GM's job to improvise, sometimes completely
off-the-cuff to allow for the players' actions. It is therefore a mark of a
good GM as to how well they can improvise, and how well they can keep the
game "on track" so to speak, or at least keep things moving.

IF OTOH doesn't have a live GM present to improvise on the situation.
Therefore, it is a mark of a decent IF piece as-to how many situations are
anticipated and delt with.

This is one very big way where RPGs and IF differentiate. And RPG can be
run off of brief notes and just ideas in the GM's head. IF needs to be
completed ahead of time.

Of course by every situation anticipated and delt with, it doesn't mean that
road blocks can't still be set-up.

A friend of mine hates Kings Quest because there's a spot where you can get
locked in a room and can't get out. There is a difference between

> PICK UP A CHAIR AND SMASH A WINDOW

I CAN'T DO THAT.

and

>PICK UP A CHAIR AND SMASH A WINDOW

YOU THROW THE CHAIR AT THE WINDOW. THERE IS A BONE-WRENCHING SOUND AND THE
CHAIR SPLITTERS INTO FIREWOOD.

THE WINDOW IS UNHARMED.

>EXAMINE WINDOW

IT APPEARS TO BE STEEL REINFORCED TEMPERED GLASS.

Of course, just because every situation isn't delt with cleverly like this
doesn't make it "bad" but when quite a few situations are delt with in this
way, it does make it better.

You can only read

YOU CAN'T DO THAT

or

I DON'T KNOW THAT WORD

so many time before it gets tedious. It also makes the game easier.
Whichever course of action doesn't get the default "can't do that" phrase
must be what you need to do.

The idea for RPG stat in IF is to

1) present the author with a tool to help design situations in an
interesting, realistic way. When the character has Strength, the author
must consider the player using it in given situations.

2) using the possibilities RPGs take into account, somewhat different
situations could be done in IF that haven't been before. Or, at least,
situation which haven't been used as often could be used more often.


Jasper McChesney

unread,
Dec 9, 2000, 11:52:27 PM12/9/00
to
pblock wrote:
>
> AFAIK, Sierra's Hero's Quest had to change their name because of Milton
> Bradley's (and Game Workshop's) Hero Quest board game.

Hmm, I think that's the other way around -- the board game came out LONG
after the first Hero's Quest game by Sierra. Anyway, "Hero's Quest"
sounds
much better IMHO.



> I may be wrong, but it was Sierra who changed their name to the completely
> different Quest for Glory.

Even the first one had the subtitle. They may have decided to emphasize
it
to distinguish themselves further, but as far as I know, the board game
was
never THAT popular.

> Games Workshop bought Hero Quest back from
> Milton Bradley and released Advanced Hero Quest, and later Warhammer Quest
> to tie-in with their successful table-top wargame.

I've played this and sitll prefer the original (with a few modification
of course :)

Joe Mason

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Dec 9, 2000, 10:10:15 PM12/9/00
to
In article <3A330C0B...@student.umass.edu>, Jasper McChesney wrote:
>pblock wrote:
>>
>> AFAIK, Sierra's Hero's Quest had to change their name because of Milton
>> Bradley's (and Game Workshop's) Hero Quest board game.
>
>Hmm, I think that's the other way around -- the board game came out LONG
>after the first Hero's Quest game by Sierra. Anyway, "Hero's Quest"
>sounds
>much better IMHO.

Not *long* after, I don't think. But definitely after. (Or at least, I i
didn't hear about it 'till after.

>> I may be wrong, but it was Sierra who changed their name to the completely
>> different Quest for Glory.
>
>Even the first one had the subtitle. They may have decided to emphasize

No it didn't. When I first saw it it was "Hero's Quest: So You Want To Be A
Hero". (It might have been explicitly "Hero's Quest I", already planning for
sequals.)

Joe

Jasper McChesney

unread,
Dec 10, 2000, 1:44:08 AM12/10/00
to
Joe Mason wrote:
>
> >Even the first one had the subtitle. They may have decided to emphasize
>
> No it didn't. When I first saw it it was "Hero's Quest: So You Want To Be A
> Hero". (It might have been explicitly "Hero's Quest I", already planning for
> sequals.)

Yes, you're right of course, I was thinking of "So You Want..."

Trevor Barrie

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Dec 10, 2000, 1:42:06 PM12/10/00
to
In article <3A330C0B...@student.umass.edu>,

Jasper McChesney <jas...@student.umass.edu> wrote:
>pblock wrote:
>>
>> AFAIK, Sierra's Hero's Quest had to change their name because of Milton
>> Bradley's (and Game Workshop's) Hero Quest board game.
>
>Hmm, I think that's the other way around -- the board game came out LONG
>after the first Hero's Quest game by Sierra.

A quick web search indicates that they both came out in '89. Haven't
found any site which lists the months yet...

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