[Inform Manual Printing]
John
be glad that you don't have to print on a dot matrix...
For those who still print on a dot matrix.. GET AN INKJET!
THERE QUIETER AND DON'T SOUND LIKE SPEED METAL WHEN DOING
THE CONTENTS... AND DON'T MELT HALFWAY THROGH THE INDEX!!!
Not. that I did that of course..
(Laser RULZE)
Funny though.. there was no syntax color on my printout.. even though
I had colored the text on the screen with ink!!
Oh well.. now I can take the manual to bed with me...
So instead of having to read it off my 2 pound lab top..
I read it out of a easy to carry 4 pound 3 ring binder.
Go luck to all printers.. and my the ink flow freely.
John E.
James Taylor
<URL:mailto:john...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> To everyone who has recently printed all 267 pages of the Inform manual...
<AOL> Me too! </AOL> :-)
Printed by editing the postscript to make it duplex and
sending it to a fast laser printer.
> Oh well.. now I can take the manual to bed with me...
> So instead of having to read it off my 2 pound lab top..
> I read it out of a easy to carry 4 pound 3 ring binder.
I also have it clipped into a ring binder but irritatingly the layout
is designed for single sided print and there is not sufficient margin
on the rear side of each sheet for the holes. Oh well...
Inform is the natural choice for me as I own an Acorn RiscPC.
So far, I've read through the first "book" of the manual and found
Inform to be an interesting language. I am looking forward to taking
my first steps into IF, the trouble is, I'm a much better programmer
than I am a writer...... On the other hand, it might be more accurate
to say that I'm a far worse writer than I am a programmer. ;-)
PS. As this is my first post to this group, I'd like to take this
opportunity to say hello to everyone. This is one of the friendliest
groups I have had the pleasure of reading, and best of all, people
here can spell!
--
James Taylor <james(at)oakseed.demon.co.uk>
PGP key available ID: 3FBE1BF9
Fingerprint: F19D803624ED6FE8 370045159F66FD02
Steven Marsh
<ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>
>PS. As this is my first post to this group, I'd like to take this
>opportunity to say hello to everyone. This is one of the friendliest
>groups I have had the pleasure of reading, and best of all, people
>here can spell!
I agree. If I haven't said it enough, I appreciate the heck out of
the IF on-line community. They are by far some of the most helpful,
coolest, most intelligent yet approachable folks I've run into on the
net (and I've been involved in quite a few other groups). Thanks,
everyone!
BTW, hello and welcome aboard, James! How's the new album selling? :b
(Sorry; I can only imagine the number of times you've heard that.
Then again, with a name like "Marsh", I take my pleasures where I
may.)
Steven Marsh
ma...@nettally.com
Keeper of the Unofficial Legend Text Adventure Page
www.waitingforgo.com/legend
BabelFish
>my first steps into IF, the trouble is, I'm a much better programmer
>than I am a writer...... On the other hand, it might be more accurate
>to say that I'm a far worse writer than I am a programmer. ;-)
I'm mediocre at each. Though I enjoy them both trememndously.
Hopefully the combination will allow me to produce something likeable.
:)
>PS. As this is my first post to this group, I'd like to take this
>opportunity to say hello to everyone. This is one of the friendliest
Hi, James.
>groups I have had the pleasure of reading, and best of all, people
>here can spell!
Wee ken not. Dont by meen, yu nastee pursin. :P
-r
James Taylor
>
> James Taylor <ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk> penned:
> >my first steps into IF, the trouble is, I'm a much better programmer
> >than I am a writer...... On the other hand, it might be more accurate
> >to say that I'm a far worse writer than I am a programmer. ;-)
>
> I'm mediocre at each. Though I enjoy them both trememndously.
> Hopefully the combination will allow me to produce something likeable.
> :)
I wish I could share your confidence.
Since my previous post I have read a fair bit more of the Inform
manual and I am now getting the feeling that learning to use the
language and library well is going to require a little more dedication
than I imagined. I am not daunted by this necessarily, because I enjoy
learning new programming languages, but for my efforts I need to feel
that I have it in me to write good stories, and this is the problem.
As I have already admitted, I'm no writer. Just the opening scenes, of
some of the games from the GMD IF archive, leave me quite entranced by
the immediate immersion accomplished by their authors' writing skills.
Until my recent rediscovery of the adventure game medium, I simply
did not read fiction. It was my belief that life was too short not to
be learning concrete facts from technical reference books instead.
I'm sure that my inability to write well is due, in no small part, to
my lack of exposure to good fiction.
I have been reading as much as possible from this group (including
the DejaNews archives) on what makes Interactive Fiction either a
good game, or a good piece of fiction, and quite frankly I *do* feel
daunted by the specification implicit in these postings.
Now, I do not have time to absorb writing skills by osmosis, and it
is difficult to become ridiculously well-read overnight. Does anyone
have any short-cuts to literary excellence that they could suggest?
Are there any good books (available in the UK) or web sites on the
subject of fiction writing for newbies that you could recommend to
someone with very little free time?
Doeadeer3
>From: James Taylor <ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>Date: 3/7/99 8:38 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Now, I do not have time to absorb writing skills by osmosis, and it
>is difficult to become ridiculously well-read overnight. Does anyone
>have any short-cuts to literary excellence that they could suggest?
>
No.
Everyone seems to just say practice, practice.
But a game is made good with more than just good writing. As you will also see
from reading various threads.
However, a plot helps a lot :-).
There is an IF collaborator's page, unfortunately, I don't currently have the
URL.
Good luck, Doe :-)
Doe doea...@aol.com (formerly known as FemaleDeer)
****************************************************************************
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain
???
> Now, I do not have time to absorb writing skills by osmosis, and it
> is difficult to become ridiculously well-read overnight. Does anyone
> have any short-cuts to literary excellence that they could suggest?
There are no short-cuts. You must read and write as much as possible. If
time is a problem I would recommend starting with reading as many short
stories as you can. One book of short stories I would recommend is "Emperor
of the Air" by Ethan Canin. You can read many of the stories in 15 minutes
or less, and the characters are great. Additionally, if you want to become a
better writer you must write. I would try to write every day, even if it is
just spending five minutes brainstorming some ideas in a journal.
Lurd
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Mike Berlyn
James Taylor wrote in message ...
<snip>
>Are there any good books (available in the UK) or web sites on the
>subject of fiction writing for newbies that you could recommend to
>someone with very little free time?
>
Yes. Think hard and long about what your favorite book is. Once identified,
read it a paragraph at a time. Then after having read the paragraph, read
each sentence. See the way the sentences interrelate. Then, read the words
in the sentences. See what verbs are used, what each sentence does, and
whether images are evoked by individual sentences.
The first major step in writing can simply be understanding the way others
do it. This will get you the most for the least amount of effort.
-- Mike (author of 4 novels, 16 games, etc.)
Arcum Dagsson
> > Now, I do not have time to absorb writing skills by osmosis, and it
> > is difficult to become ridiculously well-read overnight. Does anyone
> > have any short-cuts to literary excellence that they could suggest?
>
>
> There are no short-cuts. You must read and write as much as possible. If
> time is a problem I would recommend starting with reading as many short
> stories as you can. One book of short stories I would recommend is "Emperor
> of the Air" by Ethan Canin. You can read many of the stories in 15 minutes
> or less, and the characters are great. Additionally, if you want to become a
> better writer you must write. I would try to write every day, even if it is
> just spending five minutes brainstorming some ideas in a journal.
>
>
Any collections of Ray Bradbury's short stories would be highly
recommended, as well...
--Arcum Dagsson (insert separator for .sig here)
"Zaphod, last time I knew you, you were one of the richest men in the
Galaxy. What do you want money for?"
"Oh, I lost it all."
"All of it? What did you do, gamble it away?"
"No, I left it in a taxi."
"Stylish."
Stark
> Now, I do not have time to absorb writing skills by osmosis, and it
> is difficult to become ridiculously well-read overnight. Does anyone
> have any short-cuts to literary excellence that they could suggest?
I'd say that the best way to begin would be to actually write something and
see how it comes out (since it sounds like you haven't done this yet).
Write a short work of IF, or just write a short story. The simple act of
actually doing this, even once, would teach you more than a book on writing
would, at least at this stage.
Once you've written something, if you wanted to, you could show it to other
people or post it to the appropriate usenet newsgroup(anonymously, if
you're chicken) and ask people's opinions.
At this point, with a bit of experience, perhaps you might want to find
some book on writing.
Stark
Kilroy
James Taylor <ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> It was my belief that life was too short not to
> be learning concrete facts from technical reference books instead.
Well, is *my* belief that life is too short to *not* read fiction (and *enjoy
it a lot*). Besides enjoying reading technical reference books... How can I
find interesting a Xerox XGF manual is beyond me, but... :-)
The Camel Book... that's completely other issue. The book *is* fun... and
technically useful.
o-=< Richie Adler >=-o
(Kilroy at ifMUD ...and writing Spanish Inform games)
James Taylor
<URL:mailto:richi...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> In article <ant08045...@oakseed.demon.co.uk>,
> James Taylor <ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > It was my belief that life was too short not to
> > be learning concrete facts from technical reference books instead.
>
> Well, is *my* belief that life is too short to *not* read fiction (and *enjoy
> it a lot*).
That's a point of view that I'm quickly coming round to, but there's
still this nagging feeling that I ought to be learning new skills rather
than just enjoying life. Being able to write well is a worthy skill to
learn, of course, so perhaps I can justify it with this in mind.
> The Camel Book... that's completely other issue.
> The book *is* fun... and technically useful.
I totally agree! Actually, all of the O'Reilly books I've read have
James Taylor
> Are there any good books (available in the UK) or web sites on the
> subject of fiction writing for newbies that you could recommend to
> someone with very little free time?
I was a little disappointed that everyone said "no, just read lots"
because this is something I simply don't have the time for. I'm up
until about 2am most nights just keeping up with life as it is.
However, the following advice made a lot of sense:
Mike Berlyn wrote:
> Think hard and long about what your favorite book is. Once identified,
> read it a paragraph at a time. Then after having read the paragraph, read
> each sentence. See the way the sentences interrelate. Then, read the words
> in the sentences. See what verbs are used, what each sentence does, and
> whether images are evoked by individual sentences.
Wow, thanks. It might seem inane to you guys, but this is just the
kind of simple advice I need. I suppose it makes sense to me because
this would be my next step in the absence of anything more directed.
Of course, there's the small problem that, not having read any good
fiction, I don't have any favourites to choose from, but we'll put
that issue aside for the moment. :-) Besides, I can apply Mike's
technique to the I.F. that I play, and learn as much from the bad as
I do from the good.
BUT THEN... <dramatic pause>... I also saw these postings on a
separate thread:
Brendan Reville wrote:
> In preparation for writing my own adventure games, I've begun reading
> Christopher Vogler's The Writer's Journey, the famous screenwriting
> book. It's quite practical due to its logical mapping of a story's
> progress... and even more useful in the deep importance it places on
> the age-old art of telling a good story.
Mike Sellers wrote:
> I've recommended Robert McKee's classic book "Story" before. It's not
> aimed at game designers, but you can learn an *immense* amount from it.
>
> A little Joseph Campbell wouldn't hurt either. Patrick O'Brian too, but
> mainly for deep technique background -- and general enjoyment. :-)
So there *are* books on the craft of fiction writing after all!
Of these, which would one you guys recommend, or perhaps you might
suggest a different book altogether?
Also, the r.a.i-f FAQ has quite a few useful pointers to web sites that
try to explain the techniques behind the art of writing I.F. In particular,
"Whizzard's Guide to Text Adventure Authorship" at:
http://www.firedrake.org/if-archive/info/authorship-guide.base
seems to be just what I'm looking for.
Thank you to everyone that tried to help. It's much appreciated.
Joe Mason
>
>>Are there any good books (available in the UK) or web sites on the
>>subject of fiction writing for newbies that you could recommend to
>>someone with very little free time?
>>
>read it a paragraph at a time. Then after having read the paragraph, read
>each sentence. See the way the sentences interrelate. Then, read the words
>in the sentences. See what verbs are used, what each sentence does, and
>whether images are evoked by individual sentences.
>
>do it. This will get you the most for the least amount of effort.
<Joe attempts to twist his head around this>
What a cool way to say it. I've seen this advice often, but never stated so
well. Didn't take long at all for you to kick Steven Marsh out of my .sig.
Joe
--
"Think hard and long about what your favorite book is. Once identified, read
it a paragraph at a time. Then after having read the paragraph, read each
sentence. See the way the sentences interrelate. Then, read the words..."
-- Mike Berlyn, on learning to write
Mike Berlyn
Joe Mason wrote in message <7c52ns$k52$1...@remarQ.com>...
Muffy and I taught creative writing at Harvard for two years and we had to
come up with some way of communicating difficult concepts in ways people
could wrap their heads around. For "standard" fiction (i.e.: not IF), the
most helpful one was "Linearity."
Linearity describes the way thoughts (and so writing) flows from point to
point, from here to there. By _thinking_ about where the story is, you can
almost always intuit where the story should go. Writer's block is 99.9% the
result of taking a wrong turn somewhere in the story's path. Unblocking is
simply the method of backtracking until you find the place where you took
the wrong turn.
-- Mike
R. Alan Monroe
>I was a little disappointed that everyone said "no, just read lots"
>because this is something I simply don't have the time for. I'm up
>until about 2am most nights just keeping up with life as it is.
What do you do for a living, and what time do you get up in the
morning, if you don't mind me asking?
Me, I'm at least making a _halfhearted_ effort to step back and look
very seriously and objectively at the (I'm not sure what adjective I'm
hunting for here - contrived? suspicious?) acceleration in the pace of
modern lifestyles.
Or maybe that's my paranoia showing :^)
Have fun
Alan
John West McKenna
>Linearity describes the way thoughts (and so writing) flows from point to
>point, from here to there. By _thinking_ about where the story is, you can
>almost always intuit where the story should go.
One of the best books I've read recently is David Foster "The Glade Within
The Grove". This is concrete proof of everything you've been told about
learning the rules so you can break them. The book is highly non-linear.
The narrator wanders all over the place, digresses, and makes comments on
characters' actions in light of future events. Then near the end of the
book, he says "I've made a serious blunder with narrative pace". He's
nearly at the end of the book, and the *really* interesting stuff is only
just beginning.
Then I stopped, and realised that I knew we hadn't got to the interesting
stuff yet because *I already knew what it was*. He'd told the whole story
without me even noticing. Not all of it was explicitly told - the
characters are so real that you know exactly how they'll react to certain
things, and enough of the story is known to fill in the gaps. But
everything was there. The book seems terribly disorganized, but it was all
very carefully done. Deliberate.
Brilliant book. Highly recommended. If you're looking to do something
different in your writing, it might give you some ideas.
John West
Steven Marsh
>
>What a cool way to say it. I've seen this advice often, but never stated so
>well. Didn't take long at all for you to kick Steven Marsh out of my .sig.
>
>Joe
Hey! That's like the Acadamy Awards folks saying that -this- year's
films are -really- good (unlike last year's tripe). :)
Steven Marsh
ma...@nettally.com
James Taylor
>
> James Taylor wrote:
> > I was a little disappointed that everyone said "no, just read lots"
> > because this is something I simply don't have the time for. I'm up
> > until about 2am most nights just keeping up with life as it is.
>
> What do you do for a living,
I do a mixture of programming and tech support for professional
turnkey video editing systems sold mostly to the BBC, but the point is
that whatever my day job was, I would still get home and want to do
*more* with my life. It's part of my personality that I'm always
trying to squeeze more learning and more creativity into every day.
> and what time do you get up in the
> morning, if you don't mind me asking?
Hmmm, odd question. I tend to oversleep in the morning, of course, but
8am is usual.
> Me, I'm at least making a _halfhearted_ effort to step back and look
> very seriously and objectively at the (I'm not sure what adjective I'm
> hunting for here - contrived? suspicious?) acceleration in the pace of
> modern lifestyles.
If you discover any profound truths, let me know. However, in my case
it is partly voluntary. To slow down would be letting the sands of
life's opportunity slip through my fingers, and that panics me.
Chris Carlson
<ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I do a mixture of programming and tech support for professional
>turnkey video editing systems sold mostly to the BBC, but the point is
>that whatever my day job was, I would still get home and want to do
>*more* with my life. It's part of my personality that I'm always
>trying to squeeze more learning and more creativity into every day.
>
[stuff snipped]
>
>If you discover any profound truths, let me know. However, in my case
>it is partly voluntary. To slow down would be letting the sands of
>life's opportunity slip through my fingers, and that panics me.
>
What with all the squeezing and cramming you're doing, do you feel as
though you're really living? I'm not knocking the lifestyle--it's a
perfectly valid one for plenty of people--merely wondering if adding
experiences is how you're going to find satisfaction.
--- Chris
Jim Aikin
> Now, I do not have time to absorb writing skills by osmosis, and it
> is difficult to become ridiculously well-read overnight. Does anyone
> have any short-cuts to literary excellence that they could suggest?
>
> subject of fiction writing for newbies that you could recommend to
> someone with very little free time?
If you only read one book, read THE ELEMENTS OF STYLE by William Strunk,
Jr. and E. B. White. It's a little tiny blue paperback, 80 pages long,
but it will teach you more than any other single source about how to be
readable and professional-sounding.
Whether you have anything to say ... well, that's another subject. Books
on conventional fiction won't necessarily help you with IF, but your
local bookstore is plentifully stocked with them. (They'll also have
Strunk and White.) I would recommend Professional Fiction Writing, by
Jean Z. Owen. It's very down-to-earth, and may still be in print. It was
published by The Writer, Inc., out of Boston. My well-thumbed copy is 15
years old.
--Jim Aikin
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
A sentence is not emotional a paragraph is.
--Gertrude Stein
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk
<ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I was a little disappointed that everyone said "no, just read lots"
>because this is something I simply don't have the time for.
Practicing writing can also help. I used to write
on the bus journey to/from college. Even a
few minutes here and there can be useful. If
it helps, you can try to think up short exercises
on a particular theme, eg:
- write a paragraph/poem/story/fable based on
particular colour
- write about a place you've visited before
- look at a painting/picture and write about what
might be happening
All those are roughly similar to short exercises
we had in a Writers' Circle. Basically, every little
counts. Even keeping a diary can help. Taking the
time to sit down and formulate some of your thoughts
about the day in a written form is probably as good a
practice as anything else.
>> In preparation for writing my own adventure games, I've begun reading
>> Christopher Vogler's The Writer's Journey, the famous screenwriting
>> book.
In terms of scriptwriting, I've recently been reading:
J. Michael Straczynski, _The Complete Book of
Scriptwriting_, Titan Books, 1996.
ISBN 1-85286-882-1
This book is very much for the American market, in
that a lot of the advice he gives would be specific to
the US. However, there's a lot of very good general
advice in it as well, and it is a _joy_ to read. I find
myself wishing there were a similar "bible" for the
UK. He covers TV, plays, films, animation...
He also includes a sample script from Babylon 5,
BTW: "The Coming of Shadows", which won a
Hugo.
If a long quote of a quote may be excused, fronting
the chapter on writing for the radio:
"It is not enough to pay attention to words only when
you face the task of writing. That is like playing the
violin only the night of the concert. You must attend
the words when you read, when you speak, when
others speak. Words must become ever present in
your waking life, an incessant concern, like color and
design if the graphic arts matter to you, or pitch and
rythm if it is music, or speed and form if it is athletics.
Words, in short, must be _there_, not unseen and
unheard, as they probably are and have been up to
now. It is proper for the ordinary reader to absorb the
meaning of a story or description as if the words were
a transparent sheet of glass. But he can only do so
because the writer has taken pains to choose and
adjust them with care. They were not glass to him,
but mere lumps of potential meaning. He had to weigh
them and fuse them before his purposed meaning
could shine through. - Jacques Barzun"
IMO food for the mind and spirit there.
Also cutting to the chase are some of Raymond Carver's
essays (I forget exactly which volume, and the book is
not to hand; sorry). Carver had the occasion to teaching
writing classes, apart from being a poet and a short
story writer, and did write about writing as well.
>So there *are* books on the craft of fiction writing after all!
HTH. Your local library might surprise you with some
general titles too.
Mae Tang
(replace "nospam" with "nu-it" for a valid e-mail address)
BabelFish
[David Foster's "The Glade Within The Grove"]
>The narrator wanders all over the place, digresses, and makes comments on
>characters' actions in light of future events. Then near the end of the
>book, he says "I've made a serious blunder with narrative pace".
Ever read "Les Miserables"? It's pretty jumpy in this way too, and
manages to incorporate a lot of Fench history and description of
French culture, the social scene, etc. in with the story. Digressions
are huge and usually stories within themselves, of a sort. It's very
interesting. I think.
-r
Doeadeer3
>From: "Mike Berlyn" <mbe...@cascadepublishing.com>
>Date: 3/10/99 9:43 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Linearity describes the way thoughts (and so writing) flows from point to
>point, from here to there. By _thinking_ about where the story is, you can
>almost always intuit where the story should go. Writer's block is 99.9% the
>result of taking a wrong turn somewhere in the story's path. Unblocking is
>simply the method of backtracking until you find the place where you took
>the wrong turn.
>
Well, I have a problem right there. My thoughts don't flow in a linear manner.
I also don't find linearity IF that attractive. I tend to find non-linearity
(or the illusion of) much more appealing.
But I can see how that would apply to writing static fiction.
Mike Berlyn
Doeadeer3 wrote in message <19990313042334...@ng148.aol.com>...
>>Subject: Re: Writing skills. Was [Inform Manual Printing]
>>From: "Mike Berlyn" <mbe...@cascadepublishing.com>
>>Date: 3/10/99 9:43 AM Pacific Standard Time
>
>>Linearity describes the way thoughts (and so writing) flows from point to
>>point, from here to there. By _thinking_ about where the story is, you can
>>almost always intuit where the story should go. Writer's block is 99.9%
the
>>result of taking a wrong turn somewhere in the story's path. Unblocking is
>>simply the method of backtracking until you find the place where you took
>>the wrong turn.
>>
>
>Well, I have a problem right there. My thoughts don't flow in a linear
manner.
>
>I also don't find linearity IF that attractive. I tend to find
non-linearity
>(or the illusion of) much more appealing.
>
>But I can see how that would apply to writing static fiction.
>
>Doe :-)
I was talking exclusively about writing, not about writing IF. I wasn't
talking about the visual arts, either. Writing (non-IF) is primarily
communication, and while people can cite examples where that's not the case,
the exceptions prove the rule.
It doesn't matter that your thoughts flow or do not flow in a linear manner.
What does matter is that when you set out to communicate something to
someone else, _typically_ this communication is more easily accomplished by
presenting information in a sequence. The sequence does not have to be
linear -- but for writing, linear presentation is what is classically taught
(paragraphing is a prime example) due to its inherent characteristics which
make it more easily understood.
Linearity has nothing to do with creating "art" or with writers who break
whatever rules they like and get away with it. What it is, is little more
than a concept which beginning writers can apply in an attempt to make their
fiction and non-fiction more accessible. The context of my bringing it up
(IIRC) was in trying to help someone improve their writing skills, not in
creating a rule of writing which is chiseled in granite.
-- Mike