Inform German translation

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Mo

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Jul 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/15/98
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First of all I want to say that I'm *new* to this.
Because of the recent 'newbie'/'oldie'/'old community feeling' posts (flames?),
I'm not sure if somebody is willing to answer the questions of a worthless
newcomer... or is this just the beginning of the biggest flame war ever? :-)

... and now for something completely different ...

This is probably only interesting for people who speak German. Nevertheless,
this post is in English because I don't want to exclude anybody.

As far as I know, there are two German translations of the Inform libraries.
The oldest one (by Tinic Urou
ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/programming/inform6/library/contributions/) doesn't
take care of Graham Nelson's Translator's Manual at all. Besides, the latest
version I found was 'Preview version 0.5 - 1996', so this project was probably
abandoned.
The second one, by Tony Arnold (http://www.unizh.ch/~tarnold/), is a translation
of library release 6/6. The grammar is quite good, but the style of the language
annoys me. (Sorry to say that.)

As you can see, I'm not very happy with both of them. To make things clear: I
don't want to attack or insult anybody here. In fact, I think that everybody I
mentioned above did a great job. Everything I said before just happens to be my
opinion.

Now, here are my questions:
1. If you are familiar with these or other German translations, what is your
opinion?
2. Are there authors out there who want one _definite_ German translation?
After all, it's easier than re-inventing the wheel every time you start writing
German IF.
3. Does German IF (e.g. for HUGO, TADS etc.) actually exist in this universe?
- As you know, the archive *is* located in Germany... ;-)
4. I know there are Spanish, Italian and other Inform translations available.
Do the games created in these languages get some acknowledgment and reputation
at all?

Ok, that's it, thank you for reading this. Feel free to post your comments or
flames. If you are a nitpicker, please nitpick.

--- Mo
<m...@freepage.de>

-------

BTW: The German beta version of Zork I was soooo horrible .....

Miron Schmidt

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Jul 16, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/16/98
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Mo <m...@freepage.de> wrote:
> As you can see, I'm not very happy with both of them. To make things clear: I
> don't want to attack or insult anybody here. In fact, I think that everybody I
> mentioned above did a great job. Everything I said before just happens to be my
> opinion.

I think it is now safe to simply ignore Tinic's attempt. At that time, there
wasn't a Translator's Manual, so he "hardcoded" his translation.
It isn't very good at parsing, either.

> Now, here are my questions:
> 1. If you are familiar with these or other German translations, what is
> your opinion?

I think it's very cool!

> 2. Are there authors out there who want one _definite_ German translation?
> After all, it's easier than re-inventing the wheel every time you start
> writing German IF.

It's not actually necessary to re-invent the wheel: the hard parts of the
translation are actually the parsing parts; e.g. "geh" vs. "gehe", the
syntax of the language (English has the most simple syntax by far -- that's
probably the number one reason why the majority of IF is in English), etc.

The default messages can be easily overridden in a LibraryMessages object.

> 3. Does German IF (e.g. for HUGO, TADS etc.) actually exist in this
> universe? - As you know, the archive *is* located in Germany... ;-)

Well, Toni has written a cute example game...

--
Miron Schmidt <mi...@comports.com> PGP key on request

WATCH TV... MARRY AND REPRODUCE... OBEY... PLAY INTERACTIVE FICTION...


Mo

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Jul 16, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/16/98
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Oh, I think forgot one question. Here it is:

5. Is somebody interested in German translations of some of the library
extensions/contributions in ftp.gmd.de/..../contributions/ ?


Heiko Nock

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Jul 17, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/17/98
to
In article <35AD03B8...@freepage.de>, Mo <m...@freepage.de> wrote:
>First of all I want to say that I'm *new* to this.
>Because of the recent 'newbie'/'oldie'/'old community feeling' posts
>(flames?), I'm not sure if somebody is willing to answer the questions of
>a worthless newcomer... or is this just the beginning of the biggest
>flame war ever? :-)

Burn Burn Burn Burn Burn Burn.....

>... and now for something completely different ...
>This is probably only interesting for people who speak German. Nevertheless,

>this post is in English because I don't want to exclude anybody.

Nice.

>As far as I know, there are two German translations of the Inform libraries.
>The oldest one (by Tinic Urou
>ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/programming/inform6/library/contributions/)
>doesn't take care of Graham Nelson's Translator's Manual at all. Besides, the latest
>version I found was 'Preview version 0.5 - 1996', so this project was
>probably abandoned.

Yes. It also wasn't very complete.

>The second one, by Tony Arnold (http://www.unizh.ch/~tarnold/), is a
>translation of library release 6/6. The grammar is quite good, but the
>style of the language annoys me. (Sorry to say that.)

That's just how I feel about it. Good work, but sometimes very weird.

>Now, here are my questions:
> 1. If you are familiar with these or other German translations, what is
>your opinion?

You're perfectly right. Toni's translation is quite good, but has
several typos and weirdly worded sentences.

> 2. Are there authors out there who want one _definite_ German
>translation?

To say that I want one would be a little exaggerated, but it would be
nice.

> 3. Does German IF (e.g. for HUGO, TADS etc.) actually exist in this
>universe?

None that I'd know of. Which doesn't really surprise me. English is
kind of universal and guarantees a certain amount of players.

>- As you know, the archive *is* located in Germany... ;-)

> 4. I know there are Spanish, Italian and other Inform translations
>available.

Available. But are they used ?

>Do the games created in these languages get some acknowledgment and
>reputation at all?

Since they're usually not written in Inform, Hugo, Tads, Alan or AGT,
probably not.

>BTW: The German beta version of Zork I was soooo horrible .....

Really ? :)

--
Ciao/2, Heiko.....

LucFrench

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
to
Heiko Nock:

>>First of all I want to say that I'm *new* to this.
>>Because of the recent 'newbie'/'oldie'/'old community feeling' posts
>>(flames?), I'm not sure if somebody is willing to answer the questions of
>>a worthless newcomer... or is this just the beginning of the biggest
>>flame war ever? :-)
>
>Burn Burn Burn Burn Burn Burn.....

"Nononono! With Feeling, With Feeling, like this:

"burn burn Burn BUrn BURN BUUURRRRNNN!!!!!

"See what I mean? That's how a real flame warrior does things; With Passion,
With Feeling, With Hatred stretched out to the pit of his 'soul'.

"Try it again. This time, With Feeling."

Thanks
Luc "Drama Coach" French

Jurgen Lerch)

unread,
Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
to
Saluton!

Mo <m...@freepage.de> wrote:
> As far as I know, there are two German translations of the Inform libraries.
> The oldest one (by Tinic Urou
> ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/programming/inform6/library/contributions/) doesn't
> take care of Graham Nelson's Translator's Manual at all. Besides, the latest
> version I found was 'Preview version 0.5 - 1996', so this project was probably
> abandoned.

It seems to me that way, too.

> The second one, by Tony Arnold (http://www.unizh.ch/~tarnold/), is a translation
> of library release 6/6. The grammar is quite good, but the style of the language
> annoys me. (Sorry to say that.)

I actually didn't really try this one, but I recall I didn't like
something about it; don't remember what, though.

But I know - and to an extent use - a third one. It's also not
bug-free, but a friend and I stumbled across it while we were
starting to do our own, now abandoned translation. It's done by
Ralf Hermann, and resides at http://www.bilwiss.com/
There are also some examples of german-language IF done with it.
(The .tar.gz-version on the download-page is older and contains
disabling bugs.)

(I asked him to put it on GMD, but he didn't answer.)

> Now, here are my questions:
> 1. If you are familiar with these or other German translations, what is your
> opinion?

Well, in the moment I like the one I mentioned best.

> 2. Are there authors out there who want one _definite_ German translation?

> After all, it's easier than re-inventing the wheel every time you start writing
> German IF.

Yes, indeed.

> 3. Does German IF (e.g. for HUGO, TADS etc.) actually exist in this universe?

> - As you know, the archive *is* located in Germany... ;-)

Apart from the things at the site above I recall having seen one or
two german adventures in ALAN, of all things (I like that languages
syntax better than Inform's/TADS's/Hugo's (I think I mentioned this
already once or twice in this group :-) ) but having tried to translate
(and actually trying to enhance it on the way) the standard.alan-library
for ALAN that's on GMD, I have to say that as it stands, I consider ALAN
to be too inflexible to do it properly (again: hint, hint, ,,ThoNi'' :-) )
- so, having downloaded but not having had the time to play them yet,
I really wonder how good they're really done.

(I'm *very* slowly working on some IF of my own, some German, some
English, some ALAN, some Inform, and especially (and hopefully not as
slow, though it's already badly overdue) together with the aforementioned
friend on an adventure that is to be a birthday present for another
friend.)

Ah, and regarding question 5: Yes.

Ad Astra!
JuL

--
ler...@rz.uni-duesseldorf.de Lasset uns tagfahrten. Gar leicht ist
J"urgen ,,JuL'' Lerch das F"ahnlein aufgezogen, aber nur schwer
in Ehren wieder herabgeholet.
http://sunserver1.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de/~lerchj/

zap...@uni-duisburg.de

unread,
Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to
On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:32:08 +0200, Mo <m...@freepage.de> wrote:

>... but the style of the language


>annoys me. (Sorry to say that.)

consider, that Toni is Swiss, maybe the the style is ok in
swiss-german (is it called swiss-german???)

>... If you are familiar with these or other German translations, what is your
>opinion?

My opinion is, that Toni did a good programming job, maybe someone
should help him with the translation?

>... Are there authors out there who want one _definite_ German translation?

>After all, it's easier than re-inventing the wheel every time you start writing
>German IF.

Yes. Me.

>Ok, that's it, thank you for reading this. Feel free to post your comments or
>flames. If you are a nitpicker, please nitpick.

>... Is somebody interested in German translations of some of the library
>extensions/contributions in ftp.gmd.de/..../contributions/ ?

Yes. Me

What is the German word for 'nitpicker'?

Wolfgang
<zap...@uni-duisburg.de>

Heiko Nock

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Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to
In article <199807200710...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,

lucf...@aol.com (LucFrench) wrote:
>>>a worthless newcomer... or is this just the beginning of the biggest
>>>flame war ever? :-)
>>Burn Burn Burn Burn Burn Burn.....
>"Nononono! With Feeling, With Feeling, like this:
>"burn burn Burn BUrn BURN BUUURRRRNNN!!!!!
[..]

>"Try it again. This time, With Feeling."

FFFFFFFF OOOOOO OOOOOO MM MM
FF OO OO OO OO M MM M
FF OO OO OO OO M MM M
FFFFF OO OO OO OO M M
FF OO OO OO OO M M
FF OO OO OO OO M M
FF OOOOOO OOOOOO M M

<fanning at the smoking remains>

'Was that <cough> better ?'

--
Ciao/2, Heiko.....

David Rush

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Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to
zif...@rhein-neckar.netsurf.de (Heiko Nock) writes:
> lucf...@aol.com (LucFrench) wrote:
> >[others unknown]

> >>>a worthless newcomer... or is this just the beginning of the biggest
> >>>flame war ever? :-)
> >>Burn Burn Burn Burn Burn Burn.....
> >"Nononono! With Feeling, With Feeling, like this:
> >"burn burn Burn BUrn BURN BUUURRRRNNN!!!!!
> [..]
> >"Try it again. This time, With Feeling."
>
> FFFFFFFF OOOOOO OOOOOO MM MM
> FF OO OO OO OO M MM M
> FF OO OO OO OO M MM M
> FFFFF OO OO OO OO M M
> FF OO OO OO OO M M
> FF OO OO OO OO M M
> FF OOOOOO OOOOOO M M
>
> <fanning at the smoking remains>
>
> 'Was that <cough> better ?'

No. I mean, I couldn't care less about your Honeywell dps8. I'll bet
you think that ten-inchers are ignorant. Your lack of common decency
reminds me of a mental problem. The Martians are coming, huh? You
make me sick. You're probably feminist yourself. Your ugliness reminds
me of a punk haircut. Man, only a dogmatist like you would say that.
Furthermore, you incompetent, technology is evil. How can you be so
crass? You lousy Chinese sexist! You sound like a real beast.

david rush
--
Brought to by M-x flame

Heiko Sippel

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to

Heiko Nock <zif...@rhein-neckar.netsurf.de> wrote in message
>Nice.

>
>>As far as I know, there are two German translations of the Inform
libraries.
>>The oldest one (by Tinic Urou
>>ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/programming/inform6/library/contributions/)
>>doesn't take care of Graham Nelson's Translator's Manual at all. Besides,
the latest
>>version I found was 'Preview version 0.5 - 1996', so this project was
>>probably abandoned.
>
>Yes. It also wasn't very complete.
>
>>The second one, by Tony Arnold (http://www.unizh.ch/~tarnold/), is a
>>translation of library release 6/6. The grammar is quite good, but the

>>style of the language annoys me. (Sorry to say that.)
>
Obviously their is a third project at http://www.bilwiss.de/inform/, but I
wasn't able to download the files yet.

I started to translate the WORDLCLASS from TADS into German and got pretty
far. However, to tranlate standard answers like "I do not know this verb" or
so are coded into TADS itself, which means I would have to recompile TADS
(which would be a LOT OF work). Perhaps YOU are interested to help :)

But I recently decided to change to INFORM because I prefer its OO style.

Heiko

Jose Luis Diaz de Arriba.

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
In article <35AD03B8...@freepage.de> Mo <m...@freepage.de> writes:

Mo> 4. I know there are Spanish, Italian and other Inform
Mo> translations available. Do the games created in these
Mo> languages get some acknowledgment and reputation at all?

The Spanish translation is available since january. Nevertheless it
didn't caused much enthusiasm. Nobody has wrote an original game using
it yet. I think that this is due to the lack of spanish translation of
the manuals (and the little interest of spanish people in pure-text
IF).

Regards.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jose Luis Diaz de Arriba e-mail: jd...@etsiig.uniovi.es
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Heiko Nock

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
In article <35b3ff19...@news.uni-duisburg.de>,

zap...@uni-duisburg.de wrote:
>>... Is somebody interested in German translations of some of the library
>>extensions/contributions in ftp.gmd.de/..../contributions/ ?
>Yes. Me
>What is the German word for 'nitpicker'?

Erbsenzähler

--
Ciao/2, Heiko.....

Neil K.

unread,
Jul 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/23/98
to
"Heiko Sippel" <sip...@uni-duesseldorf.de> wrote:

> I started to translate the WORDLCLASS from TADS into German and got pretty
> far. However, to tranlate standard answers like "I do not know this verb" or
> so are coded into TADS itself, which means I would have to recompile TADS
> (which would be a LOT OF work). Perhaps YOU are interested to help :)

Actually, it's pretty easy to customize the default TADS error messages
using the parseError() function - no need to recompile TADS itself. Also,
the latest version of TADS supports ISO Latin entities, which makes it
possible to put in German diacritical characters in a cross-platform
manner.

- Neil K.

--
t e l a computer consulting + design * Vancouver, BC, Canada
web: http://www.tela.bc.ca/tela/ * email: tela @ tela.bc.ca

David Glasser

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Jul 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/23/98
to
Heiko Sippel <sip...@uni-duesseldorf.de> wrote:

> I started to translate the WORDLCLASS from TADS into German and got pretty
> far. However, to tranlate standard answers like "I do not know this verb" or
> so are coded into TADS itself, which means I would have to recompile TADS
> (which would be a LOT OF work). Perhaps YOU are interested to help :)

Nope.

You could use parseError. (Note: when using parseError, make sure you
put the arguments in the right order. In some place or other, it is
documented incorrectly.)

--David Glasser
gla...@NOSPAMuscom.com | dgla...@NOSPAMfcs.pvt.k12.pa.us
http://onramp.uscom.com/~glasser | http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6028
DGlasser @ ifMUD : fovea.retina.net:4000 (webpage fovea.retina.net:4001)
Interactive Fiction! MST3K! David Eddings! Macintosh!

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