[ANNOUNCE] I-F Review Conspiracy

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Neil deMause

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Dec 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/14/99
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TIRED of releasing games after years of work, only to have them sink
without a trace?

SICK of having to subject yourself to the stress and deadline pressure of
the competition just to ensure your game gets any reviews?

AFRAID of those little tiny spiders you see in the bathroom sometimes, the
ones you don't know if they're poisonous or what?

Well WORRY NO LONGER. (Except about the spiders. We can't help with
those.) The I-F REVIEW CONSPIRACY is now up and running. The IFRC is a
brand-new project to lavish upon non-comp games the reviews and attention
they deserve -- our intention is that, as god is our witness, no game will
go unreviewed again.

For authors, getting your game reviewed is as simple as visiting the IFRC
web page, and logging your game in. (The official start date is September
30, 1999, so any games released since then are eligible.) We have an
ever-growing pool of reviewers already, but we can always use more --
again, visit the web site to register as a reviewer. We've also set up a
mailing list to notify players of new games posted to the site.

And oh yes, about that website:

http://www.textfire.com/ifreview.html

Any questions? Don't ask me, I'm only the bearer of glad tidings. It's
probably best just to follow the instructions, and nobody will get hurt.

Neil deMause
co-conspirator

David Cornelson

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Dec 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/18/99
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"Neil deMause" <ne...@drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:s5bde1...@corp.supernews.com...

>
>
> TIRED of releasing games after years of work, only to have them sink
> without a trace?
>

Forgive me for not being slightly, well, slighted. The IF Library has had
this capability for almost 18 months now and seen almost no response.

What did I do wrong?

Jarb

Andrew Plotkin

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Dec 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/18/99
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That's a fair question.

I think the difference is, you provided a place to put reviews. Neil is
talking about an initiative to get people to *write* reviews.

We have always had places to put reviews (prominently XYZZY, SPAG, and
these newsgroups). A new one doesn't do much to inspire review-writing.

The fact that there are two web sites with the same *functionality*
(proffer titles, submit reviews) is almost irrelevant. Technical details
aren't real important in something like this.

Also -- go, reviewers, go.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."

Iain Merrick

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Dec 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/18/99
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David Cornelson wrote:

> Neil deMause wrote:
[...]


> > TIRED of releasing games after years of work, only to have them sink
> > without a trace?
>
> Forgive me for not being slightly, well, slighted. The IF Library has had
> this capability for almost 18 months now and seen almost no response.
>
> What did I do wrong?

Well, for one thing you keep forgetting to mention the URL.

I know it's something nice and simple -- iflibrary.org? -- but even so
you should stick it in your .sig and bloody well _keep_ mentioning it
until it's permanently embedded in everyone's psyches.

On which note, I can't remember the Review Conspiracy URL either. Maybe
I should start bookmarking these things.

--
Iain Merrick
i...@cs.york.ac.uk
Get HyperTADS! http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/~im/HyperTADS/
Also, my e-mail address is i...@cs.york.ac.uk

Second April

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Dec 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/18/99
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On Sat, 18 Dec 1999, Iain Merrick wrote:

> On which note, I can't remember the Review Conspiracy URL either. Maybe
> I should start bookmarking these things.

It's http://www.textfire.com/ifreview.html.

Lots of reviewer signups (yay!) but no authors, last I checked. Come on,
authors! Nothing to lose! (Also, thanks to the reviewer volunteers.)

Duncan Stevens
dns...@merle.acns.nwu.edu

But buy me a singer to sing one song--
Song about nothing--song about sheep--
Over and over, all day long;
Patch me again my thread-bare sleep.

--Edna St. Vincent Millay

David Glasser

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Dec 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/19/99
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David Cornelson <dcorn...@placet.com> wrote:

> "Neil deMause" <ne...@drizzle.com> wrote in message
> news:s5bde1...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >

> > TIRED of releasing games after years of work, only to have them sink
> > without a trace?
> >
>
> Forgive me for not being slightly, well, slighted. The IF Library has had
> this capability for almost 18 months now and seen almost no response.
>
> What did I do wrong?

I'd really have to say that it's the requirements to start using it: it
requires JavaScript, many frames and images, and so on, and the
JavaScript is a little buggy (though that's because all JavaScript is
buggy and unportable). And, on my computer, it's a little slow to load.

If it was more usable, it might be better. Or if it already had tons of
information loaded. Or something.

Thanks anyway, though; I've appreciated the library on the times that I
did use it.

--
David Glasser | gla...@iname.com | http://www.davidglasser.net/
rec.arts.int-fiction FAQ: http://www.davidglasser.net/raiffaq/
"So, is that superior artistry, or the easy way out?"
--TenthStone on white canvases as art, on rec.arts.int-fiction

David Cornelson

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Dec 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/23/99
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"David Glasser" <gla...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:1e32e89.1iq...@modem-91.phy-mrkt.fcc.net...

> David Cornelson <dcorn...@placet.com> wrote:
>
> > "Neil deMause" <ne...@drizzle.com> wrote in message
> > news:s5bde1...@corp.supernews.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > TIRED of releasing games after years of work, only to have them sink
> > > without a trace?
> > >
> >
> > Forgive me for not being slightly, well, slighted. The IF Library has
had
> > this capability for almost 18 months now and seen almost no response.
> >
> > What did I do wrong?
>
> I'd really have to say that it's the requirements to start using it: it
> requires JavaScript, many frames and images, and so on, and the
> JavaScript is a little buggy (though that's because all JavaScript is
> buggy and unportable). And, on my computer, it's a little slow to load.
>
> If it was more usable, it might be better. Or if it already had tons of
> information loaded. Or something.
>
> Thanks anyway, though; I've appreciated the library on the times that I
> did use it.
>

Tell me where you find a bug. There are no bugs. The database was down for a
few days, but it does not have bugs. And Javascript is not inherently buggy.
That's a load of biased crap.

Sorry. I like Javascript. Frames, IE5 and most any new technology that adds
functionality to the web.

Jarb

Mary K. Kuhner

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Dec 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/24/99
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David Cornelson <dcorn...@placet.com> wrote:

>Sorry. I like Javascript. Frames, IE5 and most any new technology that adds
>functionality to the web.

Sure: but you have to realize that in making that choice, you lose
some potential readers. Like me, working from home using Lynx.
Or from work, for that matter, where it's a lab rule never to
enable Java or Javascript.

If you're grumpy about lack of readers, it might be worth trying
to make the site accessible to a wider group.

Mary Kuhner mkku...@eskimo.com

David Cornelson

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Dec 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/26/99
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"Mary K. Kuhner" <mkku...@eskimo.com> wrote in message
news:8410vl$ucc$1...@eskinews.eskimo.com...

I'm not grumpy about lack of readers - people visit the site quite often. I
lack reviews, which it turns out, has its own ineherent issues.

People for some reason have a difficult time doing anything with their
reviews after writing them and posting them to the newsgroup. It's almost as
if, by posting them to usenet, they relinquish all ownership or care for
their reviews. If you look at any of the websites that request reviews, even
SPAG and XYZZY have trouble. The only answer seems for me to go out and
request reviews or seek them out on my own in the history of RAIF postings
or to steal them from SPAG, something I find somewhat unappealing.
Unfortunately, the whole idea behind the IF Library was to get authors of
games and reviews to handle their own information on the website. This has
been successful for authors listing their games, but not their reviews. Go
figure.

As for technology, I understand completely that (not why) people like
yourself and others refuse to view Javascript/Frames enabled websites, but
the truth is, most of the people that surf the web don't mind it and don't
even notice it. The compliments I've received for the IF Library far
outweigh the criticisms. I created the IF Library for the whole world, not
just for RAIF and RGIF people. If my target audience was strictly RAIF, then
you're right, I should reduce the technologies to strictly HTML 3.2.

Now some people have good excuses not to use Javascript and Frames. It's my
understanding that Netscape and IE on Mac's are a little less stable than on
Windows and that some versions of Netscape are simply buggy to begin with. I
tested the IF Library running Netscape Navigator Gold 3.04, Netscape
Communicator 4.6, and IE 4.01 and IE 5. I can't test on a Macintosh and I
decided not to test the 18 other versions of Netscape and IE.

Then there are those that use OS's that have browsers that don't support
Javascript and/or frames. Again, keeping in mind that my target audience is
the whole world, what percentage of people is this?

Granted, that sounds a little arrogant. I should try to create a site that
is usable and well-received by everyone. Well, how about when I get to the
fourth iteration of the IF Library? I can either pay for or get someone to
volunteer to put together the graphic arts to make the site attractive. Then
I can design it so that RAIF users, even from Lynx, can easily use it.

My grumpiness is not users, it is about people that say Javascript and/or
Frames are inherently buggy, which is simply not true. The browser may be
buggy, the programming may be buggy, but it is entirely possible to create a
bug-free website using both of these technologies.

Jarb

David Cornelson

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Dec 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/27/99
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"Arcum Dagsson" <Arcum_...@hushmail.c.o.m> wrote in message
news:Arcum_Dagsson-84B...@news.bcandid.deja.com...
> In article <846mq7$sfv$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, "David Cornelson"
> <dcorn...@placet.com> wrote:
>
> I was going to go over to your site and see how it displays, either on
> iCab, or the copy of Netscape I have sitting around for Javascript
> dependant sites, but your post seems not to have a link. Might I suggest
> that more people might visit your site if you added the URL to your sig?

I don't really like signatures although it would seem I could use one,
because
I'm terrible about remembering to mention urls. The IF Library is at
http://www.iflibrary.org.

But again, numbers aren't the issue, bring your reviews please! I've added
an
option to enter the reviewed game name in case it isn't in the library
database,
but reviewers will still need to login. This new feature is not yet working,
I have
to get the working middle-tier up to the server, which is currently a major
pain.
I should have it up this week sometime.

But reviewing games that _are_ in the database is still working, so...

Jarb

PS: I still maintain the Inform for New Writers page at
http://www.placet.com/int-fiction, as well as a co-located linux server for
those that need shell accounts (free) or just a place to do linux stuff.
That's at http://www.plover.net and if you'd like an account, just drop me
an e-mail.

Arcum Dagsson

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Dec 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/27/99
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In article <847qll$9lp$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, "David Cornelson"
<dcorn...@placet.com> wrote:

>http://www.iflibrary.org
All right, checked it on iCab. The main page looks right, though iCab
showed that it was unhappy with the page. I didn't log-in, because I
didn't feel like filling out the large form given, but here is what iCab
pointed out, minus repitition:
http://www.iflibrary.org/
Warning (1/1): <!DOCTYPE> is missing.
Warning (14/1): In the tag <FRAMESET> the value of the attribute "COLS"
must be enclosed in quotes.
Warning (14/1): The attributes "BORDER","FRAMEBORDER","FRAMESPACING" are
not allowed for the tag <FRAMESET>.
Error (14/1): In the tag <FRAMESET> the attribute "NORESIZE" is not
allowed.
http://www.iflibrary.org/Compass.Asp
Warning (1/1): <!DOCTYPE> is missing.
Warning (197/130): The attribute "NAME" is not allowed for the tag <IMG>.
http://www.iflibrary.org/mainLeft.asp
Warning (1/1): <!DOCTYPE> is missing.
Warning (6/1): The tag <CENTER> should no longer be used since HTML 4.0.
Warning (7/39): The tag <FONT> should no longer be used since HTML 4.0.
Error (11/0): <TITLE> is missing.
http://www.iflibrary.org/mainTop.asp
Warning (1/1): <!DOCTYPE> is missing.
Error (6/1): The attributed "bottommargin","rightmargin" are not part of
HTML.
Warning (6/1): The attributes "LEFTMARGIN","TOPMARGIN" are not allowed
for the tag <BODY>.
Warning (7/1): The attribute "HEIGHT" is not allowed for the tag <TABLE>.
Error (8/2): In tag <TR> the value "center" is not valid for attribute
"VALIGN".
Warning (10/16): The tag <FONT> should no longer be used since HTML 4.0.
Warning (17/3): The attribute "NAME" is not allowed for the tag <FORM>.
Error (33/6): <FORM> must not be nested.
Warning (44/6): The attributes "WIDTH","HEIGHT","BORDER" is not allowed
for the tag <INPUT>.
Error (45/11): The start tag for </FORM> can't be found.
Error (52/1): The character '&' must be written as '&amp;'.
Error (52/1): The attribute "NOSAVE" is not part of HTML.
Error (55/0): <TITLE> is missing.
Warning (1/1): <!DOCTYPE> is missing.
Error (46/1): The start tag for </B> can't be found.
Error (46/5): The start tag for </FONT> can't be found.

--
--Arcum Dagsson
Playing tonight live at Milliways, it's the Transfinite Cardinals.
Let's give them a big hand as they perform their first number,
'Multiple Orders Of Infinity'

Mike Snyder

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Dec 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/28/99
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Arcum Dagsson <Arcum_...@hushmail.c.o.m> wrote in message
news:Arcum_Dagsson->
> >http://www.iflibrary.org

> All right, checked it on iCab. The main page looks right, though iCab
> showed that it was unhappy with the page. I didn't log-in, because I
> didn't feel like filling out the large form given, but here is what iCab
> pointed out, minus repitition:

But you gotta realize that some of what iCab has "spit out" on this is in
direct opposition to the idea that a web site should be compatible with as
many browsers as possible. For instance:

> Warning (6/1): The tag <CENTER> should no longer be used since HTML 4.0.
> Warning (7/39): The tag <FONT> should no longer be used since HTML 4.0.

Are <center> and <font> actually removed from the HTML 4.0 spec? If so, I
suspect browsers will continue to support them. It sounds like iCab prefers
style sheets. Older browsers (even ones with JavaScript ability) don't
support that, whereas all browsers I've dealt with *do* support <center> and
<font>.

> Warning (197/130): The attribute "NAME" is not allowed for the tag <IMG>.

This must be another spec thing. The "name" tag *is* recognized by newer
browsers and makes coding a lot easier. You can refer to an IMG by its name,
instead of by its number as ordered in the html (which changes if you insert
a new image). Not using the "name" tag is bad coding - unless there is a
synonym I'm not aware.

> Error (11/0): <TITLE> is missing.

That's not an error. Yeah, it's a bad idea not to title your page and it
would cause it to be listed funny by search engines, but I can't see it
being an "error".

> Error (45/11): The start tag for </FORM> can't be found.

> Error (46/1): The start tag for </B> can't be found.
> Error (46/5): The start tag for </FONT> can't be found.

I suspect these "begin" tags are actually outside of a table or form, which
might not be an HTML standard. This might be a real problem, but if so,
you'd see evidence of it (maybe just in Netscape) because your form wouldn't
be visible (or wouldn't do anything).

> Error (52/1): The character '&' must be written as '&amp;'.

That's certainly a good idea. I think some browsers won't display it unless
it's &amp; -- but most will.

> Warning (7/1): The attribute "HEIGHT" is not allowed for the tag <TABLE>.

If it isn't, it should be. I use the height tag to control the display of
form tables such as search forms and polls. I haven't found any browser that
doesn't support it.

> Error (8/2): In tag <TR> the value "center" is not valid for attribute
"VALIGN"

Again, it should be, but this doesn't really apply to a <TR> anyway, which
is a row. valign="center" is something I tend to do to <TD>'s (columns) when
one cell has a single line, and neighbor cells have several. I'd be curious
what other HTML code does the same thing as this and *is* a valid attribute,
because I'm not aware of one. :(

> Error (52/1): The attribute "NOSAVE" is not part of HTML.

I'm not aware of this one either, actually.

I sometimes use those tools where you can check a site for validity. It's
handy to catch <IMG>'es where I forgot to include a height and width. That's
not necessarily wrong, but the outline of a page can be drawn if the size of
all the compenents are given (it takes a lot longer - especially in
tables -- if the browser has to figure out the sizes itself). There are
other things they're good for, like seeing if I forgot a <title> tag. But, I
can't imagine forcing a page to pass every checkpoint (I mean, designing it
so that it does).

Did you try verifying other pages, such as corporate homepages? I'd be
surprised if anybody passes. ;)

Mike Snyder
Prowler Productions
http://www.prowler-pro.com/

Kathy I. Morgan

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Dec 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/28/99
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David Cornelson <dcorn...@placet.com> wrote:

> I like Javascript. Frames, IE5 and most any new technology that adds
> functionality to the web.

For some of the reasons some of us avoid Javascript, see
<http://www.w3.org/Security/faq/wwwsf7.html#Q64>

I browse with javascript disabled, but I am willing to turn it on for
trusted sites. If Javascript is required in order to use a site, there
should be a warning to that effect in the plain text of the site. In
other words, if I trust you I'm willing to turn on the Javascript to use
your site, but I may need to be told that Javascript is required. It
isn't always obvious until too late.

--
Kathy
help for new users of newsgroups at <http://www.ptialaska.net/~kmorgan/>
Good Net Keeping Seal of Approval at <http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ejs/gnksa/>

Ben Allen

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Dec 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/29/99
to
>David Cornelson <dcorn...@placet.com> wrote:
>
>> I like Javascript. Frames, IE5 and most any new technology that adds
>> functionality to the web.

Ahem. You do know that you can detect what browser the reader is
using and serve a page tailored for that browser, right? Saying that
you support "new technology" is all well and good, but that certainly
doesn't mean that you should thereby alienate a large portion (a majority?)
of your readers. IE5 is all well and good, but quite frankly as a browser
I'd take Lynx (yep, that's right, Lynx) over it any day of the week.


--

Ben Allen, hiway@usremoveeverythingbetweenrandthequestionmark?west.net

"HORSE."
-Flaming Carrot


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