Coming up with ideas!
Matthew Murray
and having a good time so far. I am really looking forward to actually
being able to put together my own game sooner or later.
Unfortunately, I find myself running into a problem--how to come
up with ideas for a game! There is some stuff I might like to do, but I
don't know how to fill it out enough to make a full game out of it. I
would love to hear from authors of previous Inform titles, or people who
are working on them now, and find out how you came up with your ideas.
Any information about the conception or development of ideas would be
really helpful. (And, Graham Neslon, if you're reading, I would >really<
love to know how you came up with your ideas for Curses!)
Thanks in advance, and I hope to be joining the ranks of Inform
game designers soon...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew A. Murray | Over 190 computer game reviews covering
mmu...@cc.wwu.edu | games from 1977 to the present!
http://www.wwu.edu/~mmurray | http://www.wwu.edu/~mmurray/Reviews.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Robinson Wheeler
> (And, Graham Neslon, if you're reading, I would >really<
> love to know how you came up with your ideas for Curses!)
I would like to read about that, too.
--
J. Robinson Wheeler
whe...@jump.net http://www.jump.net/~wheeler/jrw/home.html
Roosevelt
> are working on them now, and find out how you came up with your ideas.
> Any information about the conception or development of ideas would be
> really helpful.
That would be me. I'm currently writing a game with a friend and the
first thing we did was choose the type of game we wanted to write --
mystery, horror, exloration, etc. -- we choose horror. Then we had to
come up with a decent setting. A place for the story to take place. We
ended up choosing space from between that and a medieval village. Then
we had to pick where exactly in space, but that's a special thing for
that setting. We then mapped out the basic setting, came up and
discussed various plot ideas, and mapped out the plot and it's 11
endings. We then mapped out our NPCs and began coding last night. The
entire process took about a month of some decent work time.
I'm not sure if that helps, but Whizzard's Guide to Text Adventure
Authorship -- or something like that -- is in
ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/info
I'd check that out.
Roosevelt
Joe Mason
>
>That would be me. I'm currently writing a game with a friend and the
>first thing we did was choose the type of game we wanted to write --
>mystery, horror, exloration, etc. -- we choose horror. Then we had to
>come up with a decent setting. A place for the story to take place. We
>ended up choosing space from between that and a medieval village. Then
In a text game, no one can here you scream...
Joe
--
Congratulations, Canada, on preserving your national igloo.
-- Mike Huckabee, Governor of Arkansas
burn...@cs.lafayette.edu
Matthew Murray <mmu...@cc.wwu.edu> wrote:
> Unfortunately, I find myself running into a problem--how to come
> up with ideas for a game!
> really helpful.
The one thing that I have discovered DOES not work is to say: "I want to write
a horror game" and then sit down and work from there. It might work for some.
It doesn't work for me.
I have always said that I am very good at comming up with beginnings and
endings but I can't do middles. Usually because I get my ideas from mental
pictures or feelings that express a single scene to me. To me these scenes
are usually good beginnings or good endings.
Thus I approach story design like I approach a mathematical proof. I say okay
the first scene looks like this and the last scene looks like that. Now what
are the neccessary scenes that occure in order to have a logical flow from the
start scene to the end scene.
This is why I can't write static fiction very well. When I have an idea for a
story fleshed out what I have is a grouping of scenes that must occure for the
story to make sense. However, what I can not do is write smooth transitions
from scene to scene to scene.
Interactive Fiction and Role Playing Games are ideal for my style of story
design because I don't HAVE to provide transitions. That's the player's job.
The transition between scene A and scene B is whatever the player did in
between.
Anyway I'm drifting off topic here. At this point I have a big pile of scenes
that must occure for the story to make sense. If I'm feeling abitious I might
throw in a few optional scenes that would be cool if the player encountered
them but aren't necessary for the progression from start scene to end scene to
make sense.
I take this pile of scenes and create links between them to discover which
ones MUST occur before others. For example. Let's say I have scene A B C D
E F.
I know that A is the start scene and must come before all other scenes. Then
I know that F is end scene and all other scenes must proceed it unless there
are multiple endings or optional scenes but the basic ideas remain the same
even with these two conditions. Then I let's say okay B must occure before D
and C must occure before E.
Now we have a view of the plotline. Or rather the plot tree. To avoid
linearity your scenes should not look like: A -> B -> C -> D -> E -> F. But
then again I have nothing against linearity in IF so by all means write one
like this it won't bother me.
At this point I have my scene tree. The where ever I have a link of the form
C -> E, I place a puzzel. There is something that occures in scene C that
the player needs to access scene E. Thus I am guaranteed that scene C will
take place before scene E and there will be no loss of consistency.
And that's it. At this point I should have everything I need to start
coding. Having the ideas for the scenes implys that things like npcs are
already worked out.
Hope this helped.
Jesse Burneko
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Doeadeer3
>coding. Having the ideas for the scenes implys that things like npcs are
>already worked out.
>
Pretty good outline of how to proceed.
One could also want to write something similar to something one has read.
Sometimes I read a book and as I am reading, think, "what if..."
What if something different had happened? What if a different branch had been
taken?
The best use of this I have seen so far in current IF was Edifice, "What
happened with that big block anyway?"
Referring to the big block in 2001. What really happened between it and the
neanderthals? how did it increase intelligence? How did it help human beings
evolve?
Other's novels (tv shows, movies) can be a very good starting point and if
things are changed enough and/or different enough, no copyright infringement is
involved...
Doe :-)
Doe doea...@aol.com (formerly known as FemaleDeer)
****************************************************************************
"In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain
Jim Aikin
Matthew Murray wrote:
> Unfortunately, I find myself running into a problem--how to come
> up with ideas for a game! There is some stuff I might like to do, but I
> don't know how to fill it out enough to make a full game out of it. I
> would love to hear from authors of previous Inform titles, or people who
> are working on them now, and find out how you came up with your ideas.
> Any information about the conception or development of ideas would be
> really helpful.
I'm fairly new at IF, but have some (not too moldy) credentials as an
author of actual paperback science fiction novels. For what it's worth,
I don't see the structure of plotted fiction mapping onto IF very well,
but maybe that's because I'm such a perfectionist about plot that I
don't write novels anymore. There are similarities, and you could
certainly push the envelope to increase them -- give the player (who is,
in conventional fiction parlance, the protagonist) a limited time to
save the planet rather than unlimited time to bumble around, stuff like
that.
The essential similarity, I think, is the idea of the *climax*, which in
IF is sometimes called the Master Puzzle. There should be a Big Payoff
for the player/protagonist, in other words. The Big Payoff is not easily
achieved, and if achieved it is positioned very near the end of the
work. A Big Payoff that's too easy is a Big Letdown.
But the converse is also true: If the Big Payoff is too difficult to
achieve, the story doesn't work. In conventional fiction (CV), the
author can go astray by making the Big Payoff so difficult for the
protagonist that when the protagonist *does* win out (which of course
requires no effort on the part of the reader beyond continuing to turn
the pages) it comes across as flatly unbelievable. You put the character
in a pit so deep, with sides so steep, that it is described as an
utterly unbeatable trap -- and then you write, "With a mighty effort, he
leaped out of the pit." (An author actually did this once, in a serial,
back in the '20s.) It must be believable that the hero/ine is up to the
job, but at the same time the challenge must be perceived as serious. In
IF the believability of the hero/ine's effort isn't a problem, exactly,
but creating a challenge the right size certainly is.
Another similarity is setting. IF seems to thrive on good settings. A
setting in CF can be rather bland if the characterization is good.
Characterization in IF seems to be virtually nonexistent, however. Even
the most vividly fleshed-out NPC comes across as cardboard compared to a
halfway decent cab driver in a good short story, and the reasons aren't
hard to see. The author of the short story is in control of the
interaction between characters, and isn't limited to noun-of-address,
verb-the-adjective-noun.
The writing in IF needs a peculiar kind of terse expressivity that would
probably drive the average CF writer crazy. On the other hand, you can
get away with cliches that would send any editor in New York screaming
from the room (like that one, for instance). There seems to be little or
no room in IF for extended prose passages, but that could change if (as)
the genre develops.
In sum, Matthew -- come up with a colorful setting. Figure out a Big
Payoff that you hope will be satisfying to your players. Build up to the
Big Payoff in a series of graded steps that will keep them moving
forward, wanting more. And if you're shaky on grammar and spelling ...
well, I'm not going to get into that. I'd only sound snotty.
As for ideas, they're everywhere. My lifelong motto is, "Ideas are cheap
and plentiful." The hard part is figuring out which ones fit best as the
work develops.
If you have trouble coming up with ideas, try this guaranteed, tested
technique. Take a blank piece of paper. At the top, write, "Ten Ways For
The Player To Get Out Of The Pit." Below that, in the left margin, write
the number "1." Now here's the essential part: DON'T CENSOR YOURSELF.
**Any** idea that comes to you, no matter how bizarre, stupid, trivial,
old-hat, impossible to code, whatever -- write it down.
This technique works. It unblocks your creativity by shutting off the
little voice that's constantly saying, "Nah, that's stupid." Somewhere
down the middle of the page, around idea 7 or 8, you'll find one that
resonates for you. And you'll be out of the pit.
Hope that helps.
--Jim Aikin
"Your nifty slogan in this space!"
Lucian Paul Smith
: Sometimes I read a book and as I am reading, think, "what if..."
: What if something different had happened? What if a different branch had been
: taken?
: The best use of this I have seen so far in current IF was Edifice, "What
: happened with that big block anyway?"
: Referring to the big block in 2001. What really happened between it and the
: neanderthals? how did it increase intelligence? How did it help human beings
: evolve?
If I may step in here,...
As I noted in the SPAG interview at the time, 'Edifice' actually derived
no inspiration from 2001. No, really!
What it *did* draw inspiration from was a weird short from a film I saw
multiple times in grade school. The film itself contained a bunch of
short snippets, and included one bit entitled, "The Edifice". It was a
cartoon that showed the history of human accomplishment as taking place in
a tower, with later acheivements happening on higher levels than previous
acheivements. I completely forget if anything like I portrayed in my game
was there; I do remember a series of levels turning black as a shadowy
army stormed through it (representing the Dark Ages, I presume), one level
where a mathematician discovered the '0', and the end of the short: One
guy standing on the top, head in a nuclear cloud, shouting "Help!" as the
camera panned back, revealing the full height of the tower.
At some point when I was trying to think of ideas, this image flashed into
my head, and I thought, "Hey, wouldn't it be fun to play Man as he
discovered various key advances throughout history?" My original idea was
to have what is now the first level of the Edifice be the 'outside' scene,
and that solving those puzzles would allow access to the inside ones.
Inspiration for the language puzzle derived in part from 'Civilization'
(since it was one of the advances), and a variety of games I had played
('So Far' being the most recent) where the protagonist interacted with
some non-English speakers. I remember the disappointment I had at that,
and wishing that I could figure out the rudiments of their language.
Sometimes, if you want something, you have to do it yourself ;-)
Actually, I *still* haven't been able to *play* that puzzle. Someone else
code it up so I can play it. I'll be here when you get back ;-)
-Lucian
Doeadeer3
>code it up so I can play it. I'll be here when you get back ;-)
>
>-Lucian
>
:-( Well, you shot down my neat example.
On the other hand, you supported it too.
>What it *did* draw inspiration from was a weird short from a film I saw
>multiple times in grade school.
Other's works: novels, tv shows, films are good starting points for
inspiration.
Doe So I guess I forgive you. :-)
Reminded ME of 2001, course maybe Clarke saw that film sometime too. Ya' never
know.
Andrew Plotkin
> As I noted in the SPAG interview at the time, 'Edifice' actually derived
> no inspiration from 2001. No, really!
> What it *did* draw inspiration from was a weird short from a film I saw
> multiple times in grade school. The film itself contained a bunch of
> short snippets, and included one bit entitled, "The Edifice". It was a
> cartoon that showed the history of human accomplishment as taking place in
> a tower, with later acheivements happening on higher levels than previous
> acheivements. I completely forget if anything like I portrayed in my game
> was there; I do remember a series of levels turning black as a shadowy
> army stormed through it (representing the Dark Ages, I presume), one level
> where a mathematician discovered the '0', and the end of the short: One
> guy standing on the top, head in a nuclear cloud, shouting "Help!" as the
> camera panned back, revealing the full height of the tower.
Just for the record, LPS isn't insane. I've seen that thing too. Recently,
even. (It's a bit of background video in an evolution-of-humanity exhibit
at the science museum near CMU.)
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."
Stephen Granade
Oddly enough, so have I. We watched it each year at the end of the
end-of-year party for theatre arts majors.
Stephen
--
Stephen Granade | Interested in adventure games?
sgra...@phy.duke.edu | Visit Mining Co.'s IF Page
Duke University, Physics Dept | http://interactfiction.miningco.com
Doeadeer3
>> are working on them now, and find out how you came up with your ideas.
>> Any information about the conception or development of ideas would be
>> really helpful.
Well, I have three unfinished games and one finished that needs to be rewritten
because it was so buggy. So I am no expert.
Where did I get my ideas? Not totally sure, but 1. PC is similar to character
in a series of sci-fi books I really like & combined with NPCS from a movie I
like. 2. Evolved from a concept I had to honor Infocom, the story actually came
second, I racked my brain, how can I tie all these diverse elements -- puzzles,
NPCs, etc. together? And I finally came up with a fairly believable plot. That
one took a lot of work and a long time. 3. Wanted to write in a specific, not
often tried, genre, plotting it to be a game, I had to limit it to a certain
number of elements and/or NPC's, that helped limit and evolve the plot 4. This
one is tricky to even talk about yet, but there is an issue I care strongly
about, I tried to think how I could make it a story and an interactive story,
that evolved the plot.
Of course none are finished- finished, so the plots can still evolve more.
I find concentrating on the characters, especially the player character, who
he/she is, how he/she would deal with the world, what the view through their
eyes would be, is the most helpful thing for me to concentrate on. Step into
their shoes.
As someone posted recently, beginnings and endings are easy, the transition,
the middle is the hard part.
HTH
Doe :-)
Alan Trewartha
<URL:mailto:jai...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> Matthew Murray wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, I find myself running into a problem--how to come
> > up with ideas for a game! There is some stuff I might like to do, but I
> > don't know how to fill it out enough to make a full game out of it. I
> > are working on them now, and find out how you came up with your ideas.
> > Any information about the conception or development of ideas would be
> > really helpful.
I am a previous perpetrator of such a thread and I'd like to add my
two penn'orth.
I seem to remember as a kid seeing a documentary about
,possibly, Infocom. It was certainly a bunch of guys creating interactive
fiction. The memory that sticks out for me was that they would brainstorm
(as Jim Aikin suggested in the thread) on a situation (here's the rub)
in a team. Brainstorming by yourself feels like trying to bleed at will.
My girlfriend (a text-adventure 'vet') has been very patient with me as I try
to rope her into helping me with a situation.
I remember the guys on the documentary wanted the player to get some object.
The setting, ancient egyptian I think, suggested a way to prevent the player
getting it
"It's part of a statue."
Then they said how could they remove it from the statue. Force was quickly
discounted as a 'degenerate' idea (i.e. its too universal a solution). Again
the setting suggested magic as a solution, which prompted one guy to say
"It's in the mouth of the statue and you have to wake it up, It yawns and out
it drops!"
Fabulous, so they had to make an animate statue spell, plus they also had
further interesting interaction possibilities with the living statue (a lion
I think).
I've written very little myself (just 2 chapters of something as yet
unreleased), but here's my strategy
Plot outline
~~~~~~~~~~~~
In creative writing classes (i.e. non IF) they tend to give you the spiel
about the classic elements of plot. If you hold-back your modernist
sensibility for a bit you are left with something along the line of:
situation, development, change-of-gear, resolution
all driven by the plot's 'motor'. In standard fiction a plot motor would be
the protagonists motivation. So why is the main character doing what s/he's
doing. Escape? Adventure? To earn a living? To gain someone's affection?
To find a map in an attic? (Hmmm) Plain curiosity is always a good one. Hey
it worked for Doctor Who every week.
Whatever you do there are certain scenes that you will want to happen (just
as Gareth Rees says in his essay) so scribble down some ideas. The more you
scribble the more you'll think of other possibilities. Don't keep it all in.
Waste some paper! When you've got a half decent plot begin to break it down
into manageable chunks / sub goals.
Plot sub goals
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've found that 'puzzles' have usually developed from plot goals (as
described above) and that they 9and their solutions) are created using the
context and mood of the setting.
Sometimes a groovy puzzle idea will half form in my head and I'll
keep it in the background and maybe it will lend itself to a situation -- or
just as likely, I will develop a situation in a direction that fits such a
puzzle. Again scribble and jot down ideas.
Well I'm going to stop now, cos reading back over this, you're probably
better off reading Gareth's article anyway. OK, now is anyone interested
in beta testing just the first 2 chapters of an 8 chapter game? No, I
thought not. Now there's another puzzle, how to keep self-motivated to finish
a bastard long game with precious little feedback en-route!
Alan
--
Mail to alant instead of no.spam
Andy Fischer
>"It's in the mouth of the statue and you have to wake it up, It yawns and out
>it drops!"
>
>Fabulous, so they had to make an animate statue spell, plus they also had
>further interesting interaction possibilities with the living statue (a lion
>I think).
>
Actually, a tall basalt idol in the form of a huge rodent.. and the only
interesting interaction that I remember is that it kills you if you do
anything to it. But it was a nice puzzle.
BTW, it was in Spellbreaker, (from Infocom)
Andy
okbl...@usa.net
Jim Aikin <jai...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
> But the converse is also true: If the Big Payoff is too difficult to
> achieve, the story doesn't work. In conventional fiction (CV), the
> author can go astray by making the Big Payoff so difficult for the
> protagonist that when the protagonist *does* win out (which of course
> requires no effort on the part of the reader beyond continuing to turn
> the pages) it comes across as flatly unbelievable. You put the character
> in a pit so deep, with sides so steep, that it is described as an
> utterly unbeatable trap -- and then you write, "With a mighty effort, he
> leaped out of the pit." (An author actually did this once, in a serial,
> back in the '20s.)
Heh. Didn't they *all* do this? The stagecoach with the hero in it goes
over the side of the cliff at the end of episode 1, but at the beginning of
episode 2, they show him jumping out just before it goes over. Or, the train
is on top of the guy in episode 6, but at the beginning of episode 7, he's
got enough time to call his horse over, have his horse chew through the ropes
tying him to the track, and ride away.
I always that was a genre convention of serials, actually. I assumed that's
what Lucas and Spielberg were parodying when Indiana Jones rides a submarine
across the Atlantic in "Raiders of the Lost Ark".
[ok]
Mark J. Tilford
>What it *did* draw inspiration from was a weird short from a film I saw
>multiple times in grade school. The film itself contained a bunch of
>short snippets, and included one bit entitled, "The Edifice". It was a
>cartoon that showed the history of human accomplishment as taking place in
>a tower, with later acheivements happening on higher levels than previous
>acheivements. I completely forget if anything like I portrayed in my game
>was there; I do remember a series of levels turning black as a shadowy
>army stormed through it (representing the Dark Ages, I presume), one level
>where a mathematician discovered the '0', and the end of the short: One
>guy standing on the top, head in a nuclear cloud, shouting "Help!" as the
>camera panned back, revealing the full height of the tower.
I believe the film was called "Why Man Creates" (I had to see it twice in
junior high.)
--
-----------------------
Mark Jeffrey Tilford
til...@cco.caltech.edu
Mike Berlyn
At Infocom, we used to have an implementor's lunch every Wednesday (I
_think_ it was Wed.) at which we'd all talk freely and openly about what we
were working on and what problems we were facing. Someone always came up
with a great solution, on the spot. No problem was too trivial, no solution
too bizarre. We all gladly attended (the lunch was free :) and contributed
ideas in a friendly, non-competitive environment. The room in which we ate
had walls made entirely of white boards and markers were everywhere. Imps
would jump up and draw diagrams on the walls, without ever fearing filling
up the board.
It was a great work environment.
-- Mike
http://www.cascadepublishing.com
mailto:mbe...@cascadepublishing.com
Alan Trewartha wrote in message ...
<snip>
>I seem to remember as a kid seeing a documentary about
>,possibly, Infocom. It was certainly a bunch of guys creating interactive
>fiction. The memory that sticks out for me was that they would brainstorm
>(as Jim Aikin suggested in the thread) on a situation (here's the rub)
>in a team. Brainstorming by yourself feels like trying to bleed at will.
>My girlfriend (a text-adventure 'vet') has been very patient with me as I
try
>to rope her into helping me with a situation.
>
>I remember the guys on the documentary wanted the player to get some
object.
>The setting, ancient egyptian I think, suggested a way to prevent the
player
>getting it
>
<snip>
Doeadeer3
>Date: 2/25/99 7:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <7b3q5a$16...@enews4.newsguy.com>
>
>Alan,
>
>At Infocom, we used to have an implementor's lunch every Wednesday (I
>_think_ it was Wed.) at which we'd all talk freely and openly about what we
>were working on and what problems we were facing. Someone always came up
>with a great solution, on the spot. No problem was too trivial, no solution
>too bizarre. We all gladly attended (the lunch was free :) and contributed
>ideas in a friendly, non-competitive environment. The room in which we ate
>had walls made entirely of white boards and markers were everywhere. Imps
>would jump up and draw diagrams on the walls, without ever fearing filling
>up the board.
>
>It was a great work environment.
>
Envious.
J. Robinson Wheeler
>
> Heh. Didn't they *all* do this? The stagecoach with the hero in
> it goes over the side of the cliff at the end of episode 1, but at
> the beginning of episode 2, they show him jumping out just before
>
> I always that was a genre convention of serials, actually. I assumed
> that's what Lucas and Spielberg were parodying when Indiana Jones rides
> a submarine across the Atlantic in "Raiders of the Lost Ark".
Both the Indiana Jones and the Star Wars (episode IV, V, etc..) series
were deliberately modeled on the pacing and plotting of old serials,
which Lucas in particular enjoyed in his boyhood. Every few minutes
there's another cliffhanger. Oh no, a boulder's rolling on him! Oh
no, he's running from natives! Oh no, he's going to eat a poisoned
date! Oh no, he's trapped with snakes! Oh no, he's being run over
by a speeding truck! etc etc. They weren't parodying serials, they
were doing them straight but with a thousand times more filmmaking
skill and entertainment value -- turning 'C' movies into 'A' movies,
really (or at least, the best 'B' movies yet made).
Also, it was sort of edited out of the movie, but Indy apparently
lashes himself to the top of the periscope with his whip, and the
submarine (fortunately for him) stays at scope depth the whole way
there.
okbl...@usa.net
whe...@jump.net wrote:
> okbl...@usa.net wrote:
>
> Both the Indiana Jones and the Star Wars (episode IV, V, etc..) series
> were deliberately modeled on the pacing and plotting of old serials,
> which Lucas in particular enjoyed in his boyhood.
I knew this. I forget who, but one film critic mentioned this and said that
the 1919 (?) German serial "Spiders" was the best serial in history until
Raiders. ("Spiders" does seem to have influenced that series.)
> skill and entertainment value -- turning 'C' movies into 'A' movies,
> really (or at least, the best 'B' movies yet made).
Lucas said that "Star Wars" was the most expensive B-movie ever made. True
enough.
> Also, it was sort of edited out of the movie, but Indy apparently
> lashes himself to the top of the periscope with his whip, and the
> submarine (fortunately for him) stays at scope depth the whole way
> there.
Oh. That strains credibility somewhat less.
Mike Berlyn
Some of _my_ best ideas came about as a result of someone else coming up
with them. :)
-- Mike
Neil K. wrote in message ...
> "Mike Berlyn" <mbe...@cascadepublishing.com> wrote:
>
>> [...] The room in which we ate
>> had walls made entirely of white boards and markers were everywhere.
[...]
>
> So in other words some of your best ideas came about while you were all
>high on dry-erase marker fumes? :)
>
> - Neil K.
>
>--
> t e l a computer consulting + design * Vancouver, BC, Canada
> web: http://www.tela.bc.ca/tela/ * email: tela @ tela.bc.ca
Brian 'Beej' Hall
J. Robinson Wheeler <whe...@jump.net> wrote:
>Also, it was sort of edited out of the movie, but Indy apparently
>lashes himself to the top of the periscope with his whip
I used to have a "graphic novel" (if it can be called that) of Raiders
of the Lost Ark that had a panel showing this. Always wondered if the
shot ended up on the cutting room floor...
-Beej
Paul O'Brian
> Some of _my_ best ideas came about as a result of someone else coming up
> with them. :)
You know...
It occurs to me that this kind of collaboration is possible among the Imps
of today. What if there was a scheduled weekly meeting (or perhaps two or
three to allow for international time differences) at ifMUD for any and
all authors who are currently working on games to get together,
brainstorm, receive the benefit of each other's support, expertise and
creativity?
The idea isn't without its problems -- the nature of my current WIP is
such that I'm not sure I want to reveal too much about it before it's
ready to release, especially since there's so much overlap between the
community of authors and the community of players. Still, it seems like it
might be a productive thing for some authors, and it's not like
participation would be mandatory or anything.
I also know Dan Shiovitz suggested a similar type of meeting (kind of like
a writer's group) not long ago, so maybe this is already happening. I'm
only an infrequent visitor to ifMUD, so I'm not very well-informed on the
happenings there.
Does this sound like a good idea to anyone?
Paul O'Brian
obr...@colorado.edu
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~obrian
Alan Trewartha
> would jump up and draw diagrams on the walls, without ever fearing filling
> up the board.
>
> It was a great work environment.
That's precisely what remains in my memory of that scene, lots of white
boards and a long table. I'm gad that memory's been nailed now. But does
anyone in Britain remember what the documentary was?
Mike Berlyn
You can count me in on something like this on one condition: those
participating agree not to post "spoilers" to r*if.
I have been asking some Inform questions on ifMUD recently and, as a result
of people's help, have found some awful bugs in my own code. The responses I
got saved me days of debugging and frustration. I have no problem also
sharing the contents of game with others in such an environment assuming an
agreement not to post to r*if what was discussed.
If those ifMUD-imps participating decided not to play (or buy) someone
else's game as a result of those discussions, then that seems like a small
price to pay.
Typically, the Infocom-imp meeting was lightly moderated (by Marc Blank) who
kept the topics moving along. The idea generation was pretty free-form and
pun-less -- the need to impress others around the table was overridden by
the desire to help. If those participating do so with the same spirit, this
could greatly benefit the IF community as a whole.
My guess is a channel for these meetings would be insufficien: we should
meet in a room (not the lounge) where non game related talk is not visible,
to cut down on the noise.
Ah, what the hell:
The First Weekly ifMUD-imp Lunch
To Be Held in the Coder's Tavern
Wednesday, March 3, 1999
6:00 PM PST (9:00 PM EST)
Bring your content problems and we'll try to solve 'em.
I'll be there.
-- Mike
mailto:mbe...@cascadepublishing.com
http://www.cascadepublishing.com
Paul O'Brian wrote in message ...
Adam J. Thornton
Mike Berlyn <mbe...@cascadepublishing.com> wrote:
>My guess is a channel for these meetings would be insufficien: we should
>meet in a room (not the lounge) where non game related talk is not visible,
>to cut down on the noise.
>
>Ah, what the hell:
>The First Weekly ifMUD-imp Lunch
>To Be Held in the Coder's Tavern
>Wednesday, March 3, 1999
>6:00 PM PST (9:00 PM EST)
>Bring your content problems and we'll try to solve 'em.
>
>I'll be there.
>
>-- Mike
OK.
I think I speak for 'most everyone here when I say that this is one of the
coolest things, *ever*.
Adam
--
ad...@princeton.edu
"There's a border to somewhere waiting, and a tank full of time." - J. Steinman
Mike Berlyn
shifted to:
Saturday, March 6, 9:00 AM PST, 12:00 PM EST.
(Sat 7 March 17:00:00 GMT 1999)
-- Mike
Doeadeer3
That is more fair.
But you mean I have to WAKE UP AT 9:00 ON A SATURDAY!!! ON A SATURDAY!!!
Okay, who's bringing the coffee? I'll bring the donuts.
Doe :-) (Who probably will show up at 10 anyway, 9 is too blankity blank
early.)
Joe Mason
>>As a result of the international aspect of ifMUD, the meeting has been
>>shifted to:
>>
>>Saturday, March 6, 9:00 AM PST, 12:00 PM EST.
>>(Sat 7 March 17:00:00 GMT 1999)
>
>
>But you mean I have to WAKE UP AT 9:00 ON A SATURDAY!!! ON A SATURDAY!!!
It's bad enough having to get up at 12:00 on a Saturday. I slept till 5:00
today. (This is not a habit: I'm sick this weekend. Usually I sleep till
3:00.)
>Okay, who's bringing the coffee? I'll bring the donuts.
Can somebody bring Floyd? It'd be really cool if everybody who wants to
have a game discussed could send a story file to Thumper so we could
play through them together. (We would have to be careful that stray copies
don't get out, though. Either we'd have to take the games down right after
the meeting, or put some sort of password system on Floyd.)
Thumper? You gonna be there? If not, can we set something up to send you
gamefiles for Floyd beforehand?
Matthew Walker
Hey, but it works out at 6 am here in New Zealand. Unless I got that
arithmetic wrong.