Verbs wanted

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Kenneth Alexander Finlayson

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Nov 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/11/99
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I am coding a very short, very frivolous piece of IF which (will
probably never see the light of day for these two reasons). There
is a phone in one of the locations.

What verbs would you use in order to use the phone? I desperately
wish to avoid guess-the-verb puzzles, so I'm asking raif's opinion.

So far I have (or plan to have)

DIAL <number>
prints "You need a phone to do that." if the player isn't in
the same room as the phone.

ANSWER PHONE
PICK UP PHONE
will allow the player to answer a ringing phone

HANG UP
SAY GOODBYE
ends a conversation on the phone

USE PHONE
prints something like "To call someone, DIAL their phone number.
If the phone is ringing you should ANSWER it. To finish a
conversation, either HANG UP, or (more politely) SAY GOODBYE
to the person at the other end."

As I say, I haven't implemented all of these verbs yet, so possibly
some of these things are hard. But that comes later. Do these verbs
seem to be the most natural?

If it helps, the phone is (currently) a single object, so the player
can't TAKE HANDSET and not get the entire phone.

Ken
--
Watching this I felt like stuffing Dick Van Dyke down a chim-chimmeny.
-- Keith Austin, writing about "Diagnosis Murder"

Irene Callaci

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Nov 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/11/99
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On 11 Nov 99 04:07:22 GMT, ka...@uow.edu.au (Kenneth Alexander
Finlayson) wrote:

>I am coding a very short, very frivolous piece of IF which (will
>probably never see the light of day for these two reasons). There
>is a phone in one of the locations.
>
>What verbs would you use in order to use the phone? I desperately
>wish to avoid guess-the-verb puzzles, so I'm asking raif's opinion.
>
>So far I have (or plan to have)
>
> DIAL <number>
> prints "You need a phone to do that." if the player isn't in
> the same room as the phone.

CALL <number> or <person> or <place>
TELEPHONE/PHONE <number> or <person> or <place>

and, of course:

CALL <number> or <person> or <place> ON THE TELEPHONE/PHONE
TELEPHONE/PHONE <number> or <person> or <place> ON THE TELEPHONE/PHONE

One caveat: using the word TELEPHONE or PHONE as both a verb
and a noun makes for, shall we say, an interesting disambiguation
exercise, especially if you allow:

TELEPHONE, WHERE IS GEORGE

instead of

NPC, WHERE IS GEORGE

when talking to an NPC on the telephone.

I use Inform, and had to fiddle with BeforeParsing() to change
TELEPHONE/PHONE to DIAL when it's used as a verb.

irene

Florian Edlbauer

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Nov 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/11/99
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>PICK UP RECEIVER

>CALL ELLEN
>RING ELLEN
>PHONE ELLEN

>DROP RECEIVER
>PUT RECEIVER BACK

The last two are stupid, I admit, but the first that would spring to my mind,
knowing the way of parsers.

HTH. Florian

Kenneth Alexander Finlayson wrote:

> I am coding a very short, very frivolous piece of IF which (will
> probably never see the light of day for these two reasons). There
> is a phone in one of the locations.
>
> What verbs would you use in order to use the phone? I desperately
> wish to avoid guess-the-verb puzzles, so I'm asking raif's opinion.
>
> So far I have (or plan to have)
>
> DIAL <number>
> prints "You need a phone to do that." if the player isn't in
> the same room as the phone.
>

Jonadab the Unsightly One

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Nov 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/16/99
to
ka...@uow.edu.au (Kenneth Alexander Finlayson) wrote:

> USE PHONE

Also, USE THE TELEPHONE and similar. Just make a USE verb that
says something inane like "How, exactly" and then have the
phone's before routine (or whatever) change the message.

> If it helps, the phone is (currently) a single object, so the player
> can't TAKE HANDSET and not get the entire phone.

If the player types TAKE HANDSET, the phone shouldn't move to
his inventory; instead, the phone should be flagged as "off
the hook" meaning it can't ring and that the DIAL verb won't
say "(first taking the receiver)" (or whatever) and that
if the player leaves the room he'll get "(First hanging up
the phone)".

A properly working phone is on my list of Difficult Things to
Implement in IF Properly, along with fire, divisible liquids,
tape recorders, NPCs, Poloroid cameras, and Good Puzzles(TM).

"Virtual Reality has nothing on Calvin." -- Susie Derkins

T Raymond

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Nov 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/17/99
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jon...@bright.net (Jonadab the Unsightly One) spoke about :

>A properly working phone is on my list of Difficult Things to
>Implement in IF Properly, along with fire, divisible liquids,
>tape recorders, NPCs, Poloroid cameras, and Good Puzzles(TM).
>

You mean you've got a good model of rope in your library of code
somewhere?? Two ends, that can be tied, and ummm there's gotta be
more...

Tom

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Tom Raymond adk @ usa.net
"The original professional ameteur."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

TenthStone

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Nov 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/18/99
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On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 23:18:16 GMT, ar...@see.the.sig (T Raymond) wrote:

>jon...@bright.net (Jonadab the Unsightly One) spoke about :
>>A properly working phone is on my list of Difficult Things to
>>Implement in IF Properly, along with fire, divisible liquids,
>>tape recorders, NPCs, Poloroid cameras, and Good Puzzles(TM).
>>
>
>You mean you've got a good model of rope in your library of code
>somewhere?? Two ends, that can be tied, and ummm there's gotta be
>more...

Linking one side to another without making them "connected" per se.
Moving one end out of the room. Tying one end, then tying the other,
then untying the second but not the first, then tying the first to
something else, then tying the second end to the first.

Yet, I'm sure it gets worse.

----------------
The Imperturbable TenthStone
mcc...@erols.com tenth...@hotmail.com mcc...@gsgis.k12.va.us

Andrew Plotkin

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Nov 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/18/99
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TenthStone <mcc...@erols.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 23:18:16 GMT, ar...@see.the.sig (T Raymond) wrote:
>
>>jon...@bright.net (Jonadab the Unsightly One) spoke about :
>>>A properly working phone is on my list of Difficult Things to
>>>Implement in IF Properly, along with fire, divisible liquids,
>>>tape recorders, NPCs, Poloroid cameras, and Good Puzzles(TM).
>>>
>>
>>You mean you've got a good model of rope in your library of code
>>somewhere?? Two ends, that can be tied, and ummm there's gotta be
>>more...
>
> Linking one side to another without making them "connected" per se.
> Moving one end out of the room. Tying one end, then tying the other,
> then untying the second but not the first, then tying the first to
> something else, then tying the second end to the first.
>
> Yet, I'm sure it gets worse.

The basic thing about rope code is that nobody ever implements more
features than they need, because each new feature doubles the amount of
code.

You can't merge together features from different people's rope code,
either.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."

Graham Nelson

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Nov 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/18/99
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In article <8113ii$p7v$1...@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net>, Andrew Plotkin

<URL:mailto:erky...@netcom.com> wrote:
> The basic thing about rope code is that nobody ever implements more
> features than they need, because each new feature doubles the amount of
> code.

The rope in "Sherbet" occupies 5%-10% of the source code of the
entire game: even so, you aren't allowed to tie it to the (portable,
multi-room-crossing) ladder...

--
Graham Nelson | gra...@gnelson.demon.co.uk | Oxford, United Kingdom


T Raymond

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Nov 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/19/99
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Graham Nelson <gra...@gnelson.demon.co.uk> spoke about :

>In article <8113ii$p7v$1...@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net>, Andrew Plotkin
><URL:mailto:erky...@netcom.com> wrote:
>> The basic thing about rope code is that nobody ever implements more
>> features than they need, because each new feature doubles the amount of
>> code.
>
>The rope in "Sherbet" occupies 5%-10% of the source code of the
>entire game: even so, you aren't allowed to tie it to the (portable,
>multi-room-crossing) ladder...

Well it's nice to know that it doesn't sound any easier in Inform than
it is in TADS :)

Iain Merrick

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Nov 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/19/99
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T Raymond wrote:

> Graham Nelson wrote:
[...]


> >The rope in "Sherbet" occupies 5%-10% of the source code of the
> >entire game: even so, you aren't allowed to tie it to the (portable,
> >multi-room-crossing) ladder...
>
> Well it's nice to know that it doesn't sound any easier in Inform than
> it is in TADS :)

Judging by Mikko Vuorinen's comp game "King Arthur's Night Out", then,
we should all be using Alan.

--
Iain Merrick
i...@cs.york.ac.uk

Kenneth Alexander Finlayson

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Nov 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/23/99
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A big thank you to Irene, Florian and Jonadab for their resposes.
I'm especially grateful for Irene's tip about BeforeParsing (I'm
coding in Inform, but I didn't think I needed to mention it --
how wrong I was).

I've implemented all of Irene's suggestions (with the exception
of TELEPHONE, WHERE IS GEORGE being treated as NPC, WHERE IS
GEORGE. That feels to be a bit on the hard side).

I'd already coded certain of Florian's and Jonadab's suggestions
before I got round to reading their posts. (Sorry.) Still good
ideas, though.

Implementation of TAKE HANDSET/PICK UP PHONE/PICK UP RECEIVER is
pending. Likewise GO SOUTH (first hanging up the phone).

I'm well aware that a properly working telephone is a hard object.
But, dammit, I want one!

Coding of the telephone will be postponed while I implement a
CREDITS verb :-)


Cheers,

J. Robinson Wheeler

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Nov 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/23/99
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Graham Nelson <gra...@gnelson.demon.co.uk> :

> Andrew Plotkin <URL:mailto:erky...@netcom.com> wrote:
> > The basic thing about rope code is that nobody ever implements more
> > features than they need, because each new feature doubles the amount of
> > code.
>
> The rope in "Sherbet" occupies 5%-10% of the source code of the
> entire game: even so, you aren't allowed to tie it to the (portable,
> multi-room-crossing) ladder...

My years-old work in progress had a rope item in it. I remember
naively asking for help on here sometime in 1996, not realizing
that it was one of the hardest challenges.

At some point, I played Sherbet, and said, "Oh. Well, this rope
works pretty well. It doesn't try to allow EVERYTHING. And if
it's good enough for Graham Nelson ...!" So I based my code on
how Sherbet's rope seemed to work, and it was much easier that
way. I guess that's reverse engineering of a sort. It certainly
didn't take much code to do. Maybe I did it wrong. Hmmm.

Oh well, I've been working on releasing the game at long last.
Look for an announcement soon </plug>. Just don't play too
hard with the rope item.

--
J. Robinson Wheeler http://raddial.com/
whe...@jump.net


Andy Clifton

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Nov 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/28/99
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>Linking one side to another without making them "connected" per se.
>Moving one end out of the room. Tying one end, then tying the other,
>then untying the second but not the first, then tying the first to
>something else, then tying the second end to the first.
>
>Yet, I'm sure it gets worse.

How about these: ropes with a certain length, that can be tied to an object,
then threaded through adjacent rooms, until the player reaches the end of his
rope (pun intended). Having "PULL ROPE" automatically affect whatever object it
is tied to. Ropes that can be cut into shorter lengths. Ropes + Fire = fuses;
e.g. that burn in a timely fashion, igniting adjacent objects.
Who would of thought there would be so much potential puzzle material in such a
simple object?

Andy Clifton
andyc...@cs.comNOSPAM
Delete the obvious anti-spam text for e-mail.
"Chance favors the prepared mind." L. Pasteur

Jonadab the Unsightly One

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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ar...@see.the.sig (T Raymond) wrote:

> jon...@bright.net (Jonadab the Unsightly One) spoke about :
> >A properly working phone is on my list of Difficult Things to
> >Implement in IF Properly, along with fire, divisible liquids,
> >tape recorders, NPCs, Poloroid cameras, and Good Puzzles(TM).
>
> You mean you've got a good model of rope in your library of code
> somewhere??

No. I said difficult, not AI-complete.

Jonadab the Unsightly One

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
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andyc...@cs.comNOSPAM (Andy Clifton) wrote:

> Who would of thought there would be so much potential puzzle material in such a
> simple object?

I was beta testing a rope once, and managed to get
the player outside the object tree...

Of course, I had added an object to the game's source...

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