Hard puzzles in IF?

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jack

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Nov 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/24/97
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I was reading the other day about the Rosetta stone, and how they
deciphered the actual alphabet of the egyptians. (Well, it's actually an
alphabet, a syllabary, and ideographic picture writing all at once)

Anyway, I wonder what a hard puzzle in IF (not *that* hard) but
something involving decoding a message and figuring out hard stuff in a
scientific way, as one of the puzzles in an IF game?

People might think it's too hard... but what if I made sure it was
solvable by people just using logic? And if it wasn't huge? Maybe it
wouldn't even be necessary to finish... but would be a cool bonus.

I remember some symbolic puzzles in Serpent Isle (been a few years tho)
but nothing like decoding a language... also, the machine puzzle in "The
Dig" was a lot like that, where you figure out colors and commands by
trial-and-error.

Brock Kevin Nambo

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Nov 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/24/97
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jack wrote in message <347A38CD...@telegram.infi.net>...

There is a competition game this year with a puzzle along those lines.
(Decipher a language.)
To protect the virgin ears of this newsgroup (which are still constantly
ablush!) I will not name it :)

>>BKNambo, who has fewer inhibitions about email...
--
Visit my homepage, [now under major reconstruction,] come.to/brocks.place
World Domination Through Trivia!

Mattias [remove spamguard] Fagerlund

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Nov 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/25/97
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>I was reading the other day about the Rosetta stone, and how they
>deciphered the actual alphabet of the egyptians. (Well, it's actually
an
>alphabet, a syllabary, and ideographic picture writing all at once)


Doesn't christminster have a puzzle were you have to decode a
coded message?

I for one was too stupid to solve the puzzle, being an incurable
computer programmer I wrote a program to do it for me.
Guess if I was dim-witted when I got the answer.;)

Mattias

Graham Nelson

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Nov 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/25/97
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In article <347A38CD...@telegram.infi.net>, jack

<URL:mailto:jac...@telegram.infi.net> wrote:
> I was reading the other day about the Rosetta stone, and how they
> deciphered the actual alphabet of the egyptians. (Well, it's actually an
> alphabet, a syllabary, and ideographic picture writing all at once)
>
> Anyway, I wonder what a hard puzzle in IF (not *that* hard) but
> something involving decoding a message and figuring out hard stuff in a
> scientific way, as one of the puzzles in an IF game?

Try Infocom's superb (if early and slightly primitive) game
"Infidel", in which you have to decipher heiroglyphics. Don't be
deterred by the pointless and misleading title, or by the rather
drab prologue to the game -- once you get into the Pyramid it
becomes clear that you're playing a masterpiece.

--
Graham Nelson | gra...@gnelson.demon.co.uk | Oxford, United Kingdom


Julian Arnold

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Nov 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/25/97
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In article <347A38CD...@telegram.infi.net>, jack
<URL:mailto:jac...@telegram.infi.net> wrote:
> I was reading the other day about the Rosetta stone, and how they
> deciphered the actual alphabet of the egyptians. (Well, it's actually an
> alphabet, a syllabary, and ideographic picture writing all at once)
>
> Anyway, I wonder what a hard puzzle in IF (not *that* hard) but
> something involving decoding a message and figuring out hard stuff in a
> scientific way, as one of the puzzles in an IF game?
>
> People might think it's too hard... but what if I made sure it was
> solvable by people just using logic? And if it wasn't huge? Maybe it
> wouldn't even be necessary to finish... but would be a cool bonus.
>
> I remember some symbolic puzzles in Serpent Isle (been a few years tho)
> but nothing like decoding a language... also, the machine puzzle in "The
> Dig" was a lot like that, where you figure out colors and commands by
> trial-and-error.

Well, the hieroglyphics in _Infidel_ might fit the bill. These pop up
again in Graham Nelson's _Curses_. Also, maybe the Enigma puzzle from
Graham's _Jigsaw_ is along similar lines (ie, "decoding a message and
figuring out hard stuff in a scientific way")? Not that I ever got that
far, but I gather it might be so, from what I've picked up at the Post
Office.

Jools
--
"For small erections may be finished by their first architects; grand
ones, true ones, ever leave the copestone to posterity. God keep me from
ever completing anything." -- Herman Melville, "Moby Dick"


Michael Straight

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Nov 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/25/97
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On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, jack wrote:

> I was reading the other day about the Rosetta stone, and how they
> deciphered the actual alphabet of the egyptians. (Well, it's actually an
> alphabet, a syllabary, and ideographic picture writing all at once)
>
> Anyway, I wonder what a hard puzzle in IF (not *that* hard) but
> something involving decoding a message and figuring out hard stuff in a
> scientific way, as one of the puzzles in an IF game?

I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of those
puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one empty
slot and get them into the right order. Or maybe a game where you had to
deduce someone's name from her pseudonym.

SMTIRCAHIAGEHLT


Edan Harel

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Nov 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/25/97
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Check out infidel, which has some (simple) decoding in it, which once
solved, give you solutions to puzzles.
--
Edan Harel edh...@remus.rutgers.edu McCormick 6201
Research Assistant Math and Comp Sci Major Computer Consultant
USACS Member Math Club Secretary

Richard Stamp

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Nov 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/25/97
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In article <Pine.A41.3.95L.97112...@login4.isis.unc.edu>,

Michael Straight <stra...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
>
>
>On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, jack wrote:
>
>> I was reading the other day about the Rosetta stone, and how they
>> deciphered the actual alphabet of the egyptians. (Well, it's actually an
>> alphabet, a syllabary, and ideographic picture writing all at once)
[...]

>
>I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of those
>puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one empty
>slot and get them into the right order. Or maybe a game where you had to
>deduce someone's name from her pseudonym.

What an excellent idea! I'm amazed nobody's thought of it before.

Getting back to the original code-breaking theme, how about an
in-game simulation of an Enigma machine? Now that would be
_really_ innovative.

Cheers,
Richard
--
Richard Stamp
Churchill College, Cambridge

jack

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Nov 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/25/97
to

Richard Stamp wrote:
>
> What an excellent idea! I'm amazed nobody's thought of it before.
>
> Getting back to the original code-breaking theme, how about an
> in-game simulation of an Enigma machine? Now that would be
> _really_ innovative.
>

Or, even more fun, a resurrected Alan Turing (or a ghost version) to gve
you clues now and then?

How about other logic/math problems? Like figuring out a
Godel,Escher,Bach sort of formal language... something weird.

H C Pumphrey

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Nov 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/26/97
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In article <65fn3l$342$1...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, rg...@cam.ac.uk (Richard Stamp) writes:

|> Getting back to the original code-breaking theme, how about an
|> in-game simulation of an Enigma machine? Now that would be
|> _really_ innovative.

Yes, it was! Run, dont walk, to ftp.gmd.de and pick up Jigsaw, complete with
it's very own Enigma machine and many other unforgettable things..

Full URL: ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/games/infocom/Jigsaw.z8

( OR
ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/games/infocom/Jigsaw_Game.z5
ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/games/infocom/Jigsaw_Footnotes.z5
if you have an interpreter which doesn't do .z8 games)

Hugh

--

==========================================================================
Hugh C. Pumphrey | Telephone 0131-650-6026
Department of Meteorology | FAX 0131-662-4269
The University of Edinburgh | Replace 0131 with +44-131 if outside U.K.
EDINBURGH EH9 3JZ, Scotland | Email h...@met.ed.ac.uk
OBDisclaimer: The views expressed herein are mine, not those of UofE.
==========================================================================

Den of Iniquity

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Nov 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/26/97
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On 25 Nov 1997, Richard Stamp wrote:

>Michael Straight <stra...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
>>I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of those
>>puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one empty
>>slot and get them into the right order. Or maybe a game where you had to
>>deduce someone's name from her pseudonym.
>
>What an excellent idea! I'm amazed nobody's thought of it before.
>Getting back to the original code-breaking theme, how about an
>in-game simulation of an Enigma machine? Now that would be
>_really_ innovative.

Y'know, I think that kind of puzzle would be just too hard. Why can't
people think up some easier puzzles, like maybe having a rug on the floor
that you have to lift up to find a TRAPDOOR leading to some hidden
dungeons! That would be cool.

--
Den


David Thornley

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Nov 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/26/97
to
>On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, jack wrote:
>
>
>I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of those
>puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one empty
>slot and get them into the right order.
>
You mean like the puzzle in Curses?

--
David H. Thornley | These opinions are mine. I
da...@thornley.net | do give them freely to those
http://www.thornley.net/~thornley/david/ | who run too slowly.

Andrew Plotkin

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Nov 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/26/97
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David Thornley (thor...@visi.com) wrote:
> In article <Pine.A41.3.95L.97112...@login4.isis.unc.edu>,
> Michael Straight <stra...@email.unc.edu> wrote:

> >I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of those
> >puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one empty
> >slot and get them into the right order.
>
> You mean like the puzzle in Curses?

How about a puzzle where you have to build an irony detector?

Grn.

--Z

--

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."

John Francis

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Nov 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/26/97
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In article <Pine.SGI.3.95L.97112...@ebor.york.ac.uk>,

Den of Iniquity <dms...@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>On 25 Nov 1997, Richard Stamp wrote:
>>Michael Straight <stra...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
>>>I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of those
>>>puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one empty
>>>slot and get them into the right order. Or maybe a game where you had to
>>>deduce someone's name from her pseudonym.
>>
>>What an excellent idea! I'm amazed nobody's thought of it before.
>>Getting back to the original code-breaking theme, how about an
>>in-game simulation of an Enigma machine? Now that would be
>>_really_ innovative.
>
>Y'know, I think that kind of puzzle would be just too hard. Why can't
>people think up some easier puzzles, like maybe having a rug on the floor
>that you have to lift up to find a TRAPDOOR leading to some hidden
>dungeons! That would be cool.

Yeah! Or, maybe, a locked grate in a streambed, so you had to find
some keys before you could unlock it? Wouldn't that be keen?
--
John Francis jfra...@sgi.com Silicon Graphics, Inc.
(650)933-8295 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd. MS 43U-991
(650)933-4692 (Fax) Mountain View, CA 94043-1389
Unsolicited electronic mail will be subject to a $100 handling fee.

Dave Gatewood

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Nov 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/26/97
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Den of Iniquity wrote:
>
> Y'know, I think that kind of puzzle would be just too hard. Why can't
> people think up some easier puzzles, like maybe having a rug on the floor
> that you have to lift up to find a TRAPDOOR leading to some hidden
> dungeons! That would be cool.

Ack! Would you please include spoiler warnings? I'm gonna try one of
those so-called "text adventures" I keep hearing about, just as soon as
I catch that gosh-durn Wumpus. (If only this printer weren't so slow.)

Russell "Coconut Daemon" Bailey

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Nov 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/26/97
to

> Y'know, I think that kind of puzzle would be just too hard. Why can't
> people think up some easier puzzles, like maybe having a rug on the floor
> that you have to lift up to find a TRAPDOOR leading to some hidden
> dungeons! That would be cool.
That's brilliant! I can't believe Infocom didn't think of it.

<Don't flame me; I'm joking.>

Russell

Gunther Schmidl

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Nov 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/27/97
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>That's brilliant! I can't believe Infocom didn't think of it.

Oh, come ON! This is sooo far-fetched, not even Infocom would use this in a
game.
Since when does the average I-F player look under, behind, on and in
everything?

They could as well do a puzzle in which you'd have to, say, steal an
umbrella from an old lady, or a perambulator. NO player would do this!!!
It's amoral!!!

;)

--

+------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
+ Gunther Schmidl + "I couldn't help it. I can resist everything +
+ Ferd.-Markl-Str. 39/16 + except temptation" -- Oscar Wilde +
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+----------------------------+------------------------------------------+


Den of Iniquity

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Nov 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/27/97
to

On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Dave Gatewood wrote:

>> Y'know, I think that kind of puzzle would be just too hard. Why can't
>> people think up some easier puzzles, like maybe having a rug on the floor
>> that you have to lift up to find a TRAPDOOR leading to some hidden
>> dungeons! That would be cool.
>

>Ack! Would you please include spoiler warnings? I'm gonna try one of
>those so-called "text adventures" I keep hearing about, just as soon as
>I catch that gosh-durn Wumpus. (If only this printer weren't so slow.)

I don't get you - spoiler warnings? This is just a SUGGESTION, not
something that actually appears in a game (unless I'm very much mistaken)
- and I wouldn't expect anyone to implement anything exactly like this
because then they'd feel that they'd copied my idea.

No worries.

--
Den


Daniel Giaimo

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Nov 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/27/97
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John Francis wrote in message <65hqcl$5f...@fido.asd.sgi.com>...

>In article <Pine.SGI.3.95L.97112...@ebor.york.ac.uk>,
>Den of Iniquity <dms...@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>>On 25 Nov 1997, Richard Stamp wrote:
>>>Michael Straight <stra...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
>>>>I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of those
>>>>puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one empty
>>>>slot and get them into the right order. Or maybe a game where you had to
>>>>deduce someone's name from her pseudonym.
>>>
>>>What an excellent idea! I'm amazed nobody's thought of it before.
>>>Getting back to the original code-breaking theme, how about an
>>>in-game simulation of an Enigma machine? Now that would be
>>>_really_ innovative.
>>
>>Y'know, I think that kind of puzzle would be just too hard. Why can't
>>people think up some easier puzzles, like maybe having a rug on the floor
>>that you have to lift up to find a TRAPDOOR leading to some hidden
>>dungeons! That would be cool.
>
>Yeah! Or, maybe, a locked grate in a streambed, so you had to find
>some keys before you could unlock it? Wouldn't that be keen?

How about having a magic word that would transport you between two places in
the game? I'll bet no one's thought of that.

--
--Daniel Giaimo
Remove nospam. from my address to e-mail me. | rgiaimo@(nospam.)ix.netcom.com
^^^^^^^^^<-(Remove)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In a race between a rock and a pig, don't varnish your clams."
--A Wise Elbonian

Look What the Cat Dragged in

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Nov 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/27/97
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jack <jac...@telegram.infi.net> wrote in article
<347BA4A5...@telegram.infi.net>...
[snipped about enigma machine]

> Or, even more fun, a resurrected Alan Turing (or a ghost version) to gve
> you clues now and then?

Check out the humorous Alan Turing Emulator/Profile at Look What the Cat
Dragged in: (it's short and sweet):

http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/lwtcdi/all/3shark.htm#turingprofile

Your computing outlook will never be the same again. In fact, after reading
this, you won't have an outlook on computing.

Jeremy A.Smith

To reply by Email, change the 'z' in lwtcdz to i
-------
Well, well, well... Look What the Cat Dragged In
*Two of the same please, barman:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7691
http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/lwtcdi/all/
*"160,000 words in 3 months? Ya must be craaazzzeeee!!" - A Relative.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><>>


FemaleDeer

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Nov 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/27/97
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>How about a puzzle where you have to build an irony >detector?

>Grn.

>--Z

Okay, what would it do? Flash red lights, make a lot of woooo woooo siren
sounds when some irony was detected in the current location?

I don't, like... get it... man.

FD :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Femal...@aol.com "Good breeding consists in
concealing how much we think of ourselves and how
little we think of the other person." Mark Twain

andreww

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Nov 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/28/97
to

> jack <jac...@telegram.infi.net> wrote in article
> <347BA4A5...@telegram.infi.net>...
> [snipped about enigma machine]
>
> > Or, even more fun, a resurrected Alan Turing (or a ghost version) to
gve
> > you clues now and then?

"Turings Ghost", now _there's_ a name for a work of IF!

Gunther Schmidl

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Nov 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/28/97
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>Okay, what would it do? Flash red lights, make a lot of woooo woooo siren
>sounds when some irony was detected in the current location?
>
>I don't, like... get it... man.

Well, he obviously meant "ivory".

FemaleDeer

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Nov 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/29/97
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>fake...@anti-spam.address (Neil K.)
>Date: Fri, Nov 28, 1997 04:06

> The film Delicatessen featured such a device, only it was a >détecteur de
bullshit. I've always wanted one.
>
> - Neil K.

Let's not stop there. How about a b.s. weeder outer? 50-90 % of all
conversations, usenet postings, etc. would be reduced to: The ...... and
......... .

FD :-) Another reader of raif and ...... the ....... .

Miron Schmidt

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Nov 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/29/97
to

Aquarius <A...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > How about a puzzle where you have to build an irony detector?
> >
> What, a magnet?

No, what you mean would detect iron. Andrew meant something *made* from iron
and other substances that would detect something entirely different.


--
Miron Schmidt <mi...@comports.com> PGP key on request

WATCH TV... MARRY AND REPRODUCE... OBEY... PLAY INTERACTIVE FICTION...


Den of Iniquity

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Nov 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/30/97
to

On 29 Nov 1997, FemaleDeer wrote:

>Let's not stop there. How about a b.s. weeder outer? 50-90 % of all
>conversations, usenet postings, etc. would be reduced to: The ...... and
>......... .

--
Den


Matthew T. Russotto

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Nov 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/30/97
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In article <Pine.A41.3.95L.97112...@login4.isis.unc.edu>,
Michael Straight <stra...@email.unc.edu> wrote:

}I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of those
}puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one empty
}slot and get them into the right order. Or maybe a game where you had to
}deduce someone's name from her pseudonym.

I'd like to see a game where you had to figure out the numbers of a
long-dead language by playing a dice game with a native speaker of
that language.

--
Matthew T. Russotto russ...@pond.com
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue."

Emperor

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Nov 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/30/97
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Matthew T. Russotto wrote in message

>I'd like to see a game where you had to figure out the numbers of a
>long-dead language by playing a dice game with a native speaker of
>that language.


I don't know. If I was trying to comunicate numbers to someone, I'd use my
fingers. Hell, if I had dice on me, but no fingers, I'd probably just turn
the dice until they showed the number I wanted to comunicate. Your idea
seems rather illogical to me. But, maybe you have a diffrent intrepretation
of what you said.

=-<Emperor

PS: If it were a long dead language, wouldn't any native speaker be already
dead? :-)


andreww

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Dec 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/1/97
to

How about a white house that you have to get into, but it is all boarded
up? *No-one* would have thought of that one. And not only is this a
really tough puzzle, but you could use it for continuity - the company
that takes you over could make it the scene of some later puzzle in some
kind of graphic adventure game....

[Hmm, didn't Floyd say he solved Zork, except for getting into the white
house?]


Gunther Schmidl

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Dec 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/1/97
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Miron Schmidt wrote:
>No, what you mean would detect iron. Andrew meant something *made* from
iron
>and other substances that would detect something entirely different.

You mean, like, a mirony detector? ;)

Martin Keegan

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Dec 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/2/97
to

Graham Nelson wrote:
>
> In article <347A38CD...@telegram.infi.net>, jack

> <URL:mailto:jac...@telegram.infi.net> wrote:
> > I was reading the other day about the Rosetta stone, and how they
> > deciphered the actual alphabet of the egyptians. (Well, it's actually an
> > alphabet, a syllabary, and ideographic picture writing all at once)
> >
> > Anyway, I wonder what a hard puzzle in IF (not *that* hard) but
> > something involving decoding a message and figuring out hard stuff in a
> > scientific way, as one of the puzzles in an IF game?
>
> Try Infocom's superb (if early and slightly primitive) game
> "Infidel", in which you have to decipher heiroglyphics. Don't be
> deterred by the pointless and misleading title, or by the rather
> drab prologue to the game -- once you get into the Pyramid it
> becomes clear that you're playing a masterpiece.

The MUD, Island, had a fun quest where you had to decode a simple
cipher. You wandered round, listening to characters from Alice in
Wonderland talking utter gibberish, and, using frequency analysis and
inspired guesswork, could work out which letters were being substituted.

Not only did this allow one to read other clues elsewhere in the game,
but writing out the code in alphabetical order revealed ANOTHER message:

A was written as P, B as I, etc, so:

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
PITFOURKNAVESBCDGHJLMQWXYZ

"pit four knaves" ('pitting' was a common activity in the game - it
involved
discarding objects for points), was what you had to do to complete the
quest.

How long it took to come up with a meaningful phrase with no repeated
letters
is not known ;)

Mk

Den of Iniquity

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Dec 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/2/97
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On 1 Dec 1997, andreww wrote:

>How about a white house that you have to get into, but it is all boarded
>up?

Sounds cool - but why does it have to be white? Is the colour a clue to
the solution?

--
Den


Allen Garvin

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Dec 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/3/97
to

In article <65tapa$f...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,

Emperor <thav...@usa.net> wrote:
>
>I don't know. If I was trying to comunicate numbers to someone, I'd use my
>fingers. Hell, if I had dice on me, but no fingers, I'd probably just turn
>the dice until they showed the number I wanted to comunicate. Your idea
>seems rather illogical to me. But, maybe you have a diffrent intrepretation
>of what you said.
>
> =-<Emperor
>
>PS: If it were a long dead language, wouldn't any native speaker be already
>dead? :-)

What if you followed your pet cat back through a Time Portal to pre-Roman
Alexandria? And what if they had really good beer there... wait, I think
I'm confused...

--
Allen Garvin kisses are a better fate
--------------------------------------------- than wisdom
eare...@faeryland.tamu-commerce.edu
http://faeryland.tamu-commerce.edu/~earendil e e cummings

Russell "Coconut Daemon" Bailey

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Dec 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/4/97
to

> The MUD, Island, had a fun quest where you had to decode a simple
> cipher. You wandered round, listening to characters from Alice in
> Wonderland talking utter gibberish, and, using frequency analysis and
> inspired guesswork, could work out which letters were being substituted.
>
> Not only did this allow one to read other clues elsewhere in the game,
> but writing out the code in alphabetical order revealed ANOTHER message:
>
> A was written as P, B as I, etc, so:
>
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> PITFOURKNAVESBCDGHJLMQWXYZ
>
> "pit four knaves" ('pitting' was a common activity in the game - it
> involved
> discarding objects for points), was what you had to do to complete the
> quest.
>
> How long it took to come up with a meaningful phrase with no repeated
> letters
> is not known ;)
>
> Mk
There's a neat idea. Be interesting for a WW2 game... breaking
(simplified) Nazi or Japanese codes would be pretty interesting. Some
kind of a secret agent thing... *Trails off incoherently*

Russell
Who fears the Bullshit Detector even more than Ayn Rand does.

John Källén

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Dec 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/4/97
to

Matthew T. Russotto wrote in message <65soiv$a...@wanda.vf.pond.com>...

>
>I'd like to see a game where you had to figure out the numbers of a
>long-dead language by playing a dice game with a native speaker of
>that language.
>


SPOILERS for "Riven"


One of my favourite puzzles in "Riven" was similar to this: play a child's
toy to learn the numbers.


Den of Iniquity

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Dec 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/5/97
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On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, John Källén wrote:

>Matthew T. Russotto wrote in message <65soiv$a...@wanda.vf.pond.com>...
>>
>>I'd like to see a game where you had to figure out the numbers of a
>>long-dead language by playing a dice game with a native speaker of
>>that language.
>>

>SPOILERS for "Riven" [deleted]

And, putting aside irony for a moment, the classic Amiga 3D game 'Damocles
(Mercenary II)' had a similar 'puzzle' - more of an Easter egg than a
necessary part of the game. Pseudo-egyptian hieroglyphics in one world
with similar hieroglyphics indicating the numerous storeys of a building,
giving you coordinates on another planetoid at which to find an object of
rather considerable power. (Something about wishes, I remember vaguely.)

--
Den


Den of Iniquity

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Dec 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/5/97
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On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Russell "Coconut Daemon" Bailey wrote:
>There's a neat idea. Be interesting for a WW2 game... breaking
>(simplified) Nazi or Japanese codes would be pretty interesting. Some
>kind of a secret agent thing... *Trails off incoherently*

Nice idea - t'would be nice if the Nazi's and Japanese thought to use
English in their code messages, too. :)

--
Den


Magnus Olsson

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Dec 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/7/97
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In article <Pine.SGI.3.95L.9712...@ebor.york.ac.uk>,

Den of Iniquity <dms...@york.ac.uk> wrote:

The German and Japanese cryptos of WWII were sufficiently
sophisticated that it took huge staffs of specialists working
full-time to break them (including, in the case of the Enigma, the
first digital computers) - in the US, the origin of today's NSA. And,
of course, the clear text was in German and Japanese :-). Seems like
it would be a tad too much work for an adventure game puzzle (but
isn't there a simplified version of the Enigma in "Jigsaw"?)

But I think that as late as in WWI, some countries used codes that
were simple enough for an amateur to break in a manner of days or even
hours - provided the amateur in question knew the language, of course.


--
Magnus Olsson (m...@df.lth.se, zeb...@pobox.com)
------ http://www.pobox.com/~zebulon ------
Not officially connected to LU or LTH.

John Elliott

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Dec 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/8/97
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FemaleDeer (femal...@aol.com) wrote:
[Irony detector]

: Okay, what would it do? Flash red lights, make a lot of woooo woooo siren


: sounds when some irony was detected in the current location?

>examine me
As attractive as ever.
>look in mirror
CRASH! A rain of shattered fragments falls to the floor.
(The irony detector throbs gently and the needle rises to 4.5)
>

Of course, its real use is to get the locked trapdoor open...

>put detector on trapdoor
The irony detector is now standing on the trapdoor.
>strike rod of irony
The rod charges up with power, drawn from the mains by wires.
>point it at detector
The needle on the detector spins rapidly, lights on it flash, and it emits
blue smoke.
>w

Closet

You hear a muffled explosion to the east.

>e

Study

Where the trapdoor was, there is now a blackened hole leading down.

------------- http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/index.html --------------------
John Elliott |BLOODNOK: "But why have you got such a long face?"
|SEAGOON: "Heavy dentures, Sir!" - The Goon Show
:-------------------------------------------------------------------------)

Jeremy A.Smith

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Dec 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/11/97
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John Elliott <j...@ox.compsoc.org.uk> wrote in article
<881607...@ox.compsoc.org.uk>...

> >put detector on trapdoor
> The irony detector is now standing on the trapdoor.
> >strike rod of irony
> The rod charges up with power, drawn from the mains by wires.
> >point it at detector
> The needle on the detector spins rapidly, lights on it flash, and it
emits
> blue smoke.

Ha!! Most ingenious.

But don't you have to *melt* the trapdoor with the irony detector? Merely
putting it there isn't good enough.
--
Jeremy A.Smith

To reply by Email, change the 'z' in lwtcdz to i

alt.public-relations:alt.eating-toothpast:alt.blow-dry-your-own-head
^^^ The above line of text is merely an obscure signature joke^^^
------------------Advent Calendar Issue - 24 Articles day by day--------
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7691
http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/lwtcdi/all/

Bruce Greenwood

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Dec 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/20/97
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On 26 Nov 1997 18:39:17 GMT, jfra...@dungeon.engr.sgi.com (John
Francis) wrote:

>In article <Pine.SGI.3.95L.97112...@ebor.york.ac.uk>,


>Den of Iniquity <dms...@york.ac.uk> wrote:

>>On 25 Nov 1997, Richard Stamp wrote:

>>>Michael Straight <stra...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
>>>>I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of those
>>>>puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one empty
>>>>slot and get them into the right order. Or maybe a game where you had to
>>>>deduce someone's name from her pseudonym.
>>>

>>>What an excellent idea! I'm amazed nobody's thought of it before.
>>>Getting back to the original code-breaking theme, how about an
>>>in-game simulation of an Enigma machine? Now that would be
>>>_really_ innovative.
>>
>>Y'know, I think that kind of puzzle would be just too hard. Why can't
>>people think up some easier puzzles, like maybe having a rug on the floor
>>that you have to lift up to find a TRAPDOOR leading to some hidden
>>dungeons! That would be cool.
>
>Yeah! Or, maybe, a locked grate in a streambed, so you had to find
>some keys before you could unlock it? Wouldn't that be keen?

I wish all you people would stop stealing my neat ideas. I do have
one, however, that's really good - what happens, see, is that you
press this button to get an object. Except, you see, that all this
crazy stuff happens when you press the button! Each time you solve a
particular problem(such as, say, preventing said object from flying
through a small hole), another little problem pops up, with hilarious
results!

I say that this could become the favourite puzzle of all time, with
about 10 or 15 iterations, each becoming more madcap and zany than the
previous one. This is almost as good as the one I had about the bird
and the snake!

---
Mr Clueless

Devio X

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Jan 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/3/98
to

---Cuts...

>>>>>I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of those
>>>>>puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one
>empty
>>>>>slot and get them into the right order. Or maybe a game where you had to
>>>>>deduce someone's name from her pseudonym.
>>>>
>>>>What an excellent idea! I'm amazed nobody's thought of it before.

---Big cut...

Actually, Infocom themselves used this idea. There's something like that in
"Return to Zork" (yeah, I know it's not a "real" text adventure) dating back to
1993. It had 12 slots and one of the pieces was missing. The thing is, instead
of dead-giveaway numbers, it had words to two sentences, so you had to figure
out the sentences while sliding the pieces. It's an incredibly difficult puzzle
if you don't know what the sentences are. :)

Kristofer Kurtis

<cheesy plug>
http://members.aol.com/DevioX/index.html
</cheesy plug>

VanTil

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Jan 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/3/98
to

Devio X wrote:
>
> ---Cuts...
>
> >>>>>I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of those
> >>>>>puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one
[snip]

> ---Big cut...
>
> Actually, Infocom themselves used this idea. There's something like that in
> "Return to Zork" (yeah, I know it's not a "real" text adventure) dating back to
> 1993. It had 12 slots and one of the pieces was missing. The thing is, instead
> of dead-giveaway numbers, it had words to two sentences, so you had to figure
> out the sentences while sliding the pieces. It's an incredibly difficult puzzle
> if you don't know what the sentences are. :)

How about in Zork 3 where you needed to push the walls around to line
the ladder up with the correct exit? Seems like the same type of puzzle
to me.

Jim

Devio X

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Jan 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/5/98
to

It is, in a way. I never said that 'Return to Zork' was the only one that had a
puzzle like that. :)

Tony Ellis

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Jan 16, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/16/98
to

Devio X <dev...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980103210...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...

> ---Cuts...
>
> >>>>>I think it would be cool to play a game that incorporated one of
those
> >>>>>puzzles where you shift letters or numbers around on a grid with one
> >empty
> >>>>>slot and get them into the right order
....
> Actually, Infocom themselves used this idea...

Also to be found in "Curses".

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