IF Competition

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Stephan Peters

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Jul 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/2/00
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So, where do I find out about the IF competitions. Are they still
around? Having trouble finding the stuff again after all these
years......

Andrew Plotkin

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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It's all at http://www.textfire.com/

Entries for this year have to be in by October 1. Getting a bit tight, if
you start writing now, but certainly not impossible...

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."

MFischer5

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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From: Andrew Plotkin erky...@eblong.com
>Entries for this year have to be in by October 1. Getting a bit tight, if
>you start writing now, but certainly not impossible...

Which leads me to wonder... what's the average length of time people spend
creating a comp game? Not the "I've been working on it off and on for the past
5 year" games, or the "I wrote it on a flight from SF to Hawaii" ones, but the
typical game (if there is such a thing)

Kathleen

Andrew Plotkin

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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I've spent from two to four months.

Mike Sousa

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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>>MFischer5 <mfis...@aol.com> wrote:

>> Which leads me to wonder... what's the average length of time
>> people spend creating a comp game? Not the "I've been working
>> on it off and on for the past 5 year" games, or the "I wrote
>> it on a flight from SF to Hawaii" ones, but the typical game
>> (if there is such a thing)

> From: Andrew Plotkin erky...@eblong.com

> I've spent from two to four months.


Being due by 10/1 and based on when I started, I will spend just
over three months, though I foresee some long/late nights in
September...

-- Mike

-----------------------------------------------------------

Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com


Dan Schmidt

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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mfis...@aol.com (MFischer5) writes:

| From: Andrew Plotkin erky...@eblong.com
| >Entries for this year have to be in by October 1. Getting a bit tight, if
| >you start writing now, but certainly not impossible...
|

| Which leads me to wonder... what's the average length of time people
| spend creating a comp game? Not the "I've been working on it off and
| on for the past 5 year" games, or the "I wrote it on a flight from
| SF to Hawaii" ones, but the typical game (if there is such a thing)

With my game, I spent around a month in the spring kind of poking at
it and then shelved it. Then I picked it up again with a month and a
half to go and worked pretty hard on it until the deadline (alpha on
August 30, beta on September 11, first submitted on September 25). So
two and half months total, I guess.

--
Dan Schmidt | http://www.dfan.org
Honest Bob CD now available! | http://www.dfan.org/honestbob/cd.html

Domokov

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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>>Which leads me to wonder... what's the average length of time people spend
>>creating a comp game?

Usually I spend between one and four months working on the game itself and a
period of time equal to that testing it.

Ian Finley

David Cornelson

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Jul 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/3/00
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"MFischer5" <mfis...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000703122358...@ng-fm1.aol.com...

> From: Andrew Plotkin erky...@eblong.com
> >Entries for this year have to be in by October 1. Getting a bit tight, if
> >you start writing now, but certainly not impossible...
>
> Which leads me to wonder... what's the average length of time people spend
> creating a comp game? Not the "I've been working on it off and on for the
past
> 5 year" games, or the "I wrote it on a flight from SF to Hawaii" ones, but
the
> typical game (if there is such a thing)

Town Dragon took 3 weeks. To its eternal shame. (Not mine).

Cattus Atrox took about 5 weeks and probably could have used about two more
weeks of polish, probably 4 weeks with more people testing.

Everything I've worked on since falls into the 5-year category. I don't see
any opportunity to start or finish a Comp game in the near future. Something
I deeply regret. But for now, Visual Inform and other projects are taking
precedent.

Jarb

Mikko P Vuorinen

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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>Which leads me to wonder... what's the average length of time people spend
>creating a comp game? Not the "I've been working on it off and on for the past
>5 year" games, or the "I wrote it on a flight from SF to Hawaii" ones, but the
>typical game (if there is such a thing)

My first entry took about a week or more. My second entry took maybe two
weeks. My third entry was written in about three days. So there's
absolutely no rush yet :)

--
)))) (((( + Mikko Vuorinen + mvuo...@cc.helsinki.fi
)) OO `oo'((( + Dilbon@IRC&ifMUD + http://www.helsinki.fi/~mvuorine/
6 (_) ( ((( + GSM 050-5859733 +
`____c 8__/((( + + Tähän tilaan ei mahdu mitään.

LucFrench

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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Facinating fact:

This guy sent this as an email to Wizzard (Kevin Wilson, author of Avalon) and
me. I'll summarize what Wizzard said as a result of this communication, if
anybody cares enough to ask. (I'm too tired right now.)

(Fifty points for correctly guessing where he got my email address, and why he
thought I was an authority on the IF-Comp.)

Thanks
Luc "Summoned by Sleep" French

Mike Sousa

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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LucFrench wrote:

It wouldn't have anything to do with your annual IF Comp predictions, now would
it?


J.D. Berry

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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In article <20000703122358...@ng-fm1.aol.com>,
mfis...@aol.com (MFischer5) wrote:

> Which leads me to wonder... what's the average length of time people
spend
> creating a comp game? Not the "I've been working on it off and on for
the past
> 5 year" games, or the "I wrote it on a flight from SF to Hawaii" ones,
but the
> typical game (if there is such a thing)
>

Jacks took ~2 weeks from conception, with another or so for testing.
And my experience in Inform was limited to a few "exercise" games. It
was mid-August when I started on that entry, so anyone thinking about
doing one this year has at least three times the amount of time. And
you'll still get to bug Stephen with last second patches.

An observation. It seems like interesting though slightly buggy games
fare better than solidly coded, "flat" ones. Obviously you want the
best of both worlds, but we're talking getting a work of IF finished
here. The key to keeping a rush-job playable is letting the default
language library do its thing and the old "cut and paste."

A line from the movie "Bull Durham" paraphrased, "don't think, meat,
just write." Give it a shot, any lurkers out there. Maybe a game where
the player becomes an otter? ;-)

Jim

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Stefano Gaburri

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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"J.D. Berry" wrote:

> Jacks took ~2 weeks from conception, with another or so for testing.
> And my experience in Inform was limited to a few "exercise" games.

my 2 cents (even if I never released a game yet): my current wip, that for no reason whatsoever I'm
planning to submit to the comp, has been in "development" for a few months now. The quotes mean that
there have been several-weeks-long periods in which I didn't even have a look at the code :)

The idea started from a single puzzle, albeit quite complex, and has grown (some would say bloated)
to include more than twenty rooms, several complex objects and so on. I'm paying particular
attention to detail (hey, all those revisions of scenic.h must mean something!).

A rough estimate would be that, if I were able to dedicate all my time, single-mindedly, to if
programming, I could make a similar (average comp lenght, i'd say) game from start to finish in two
or three weeks, assuming a fairly detailed initial design and not counting beta-testing and final
polishing. (Of course, I *don't* have two weeks.)

Working three or four hours a week or so has both beneficial and nasty effects: on one hand, you can
let the design grow on you and you're bound to have great ideas during development; on the other,
you may just open a file and wonder what on earth a function was supposed to do :)

later,
S

Paul O'Brian

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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On Tue, 4 Jul 2000, J.D. Berry wrote:

> An observation. It seems like interesting though slightly buggy games
> fare better than solidly coded, "flat" ones.

Of course, interesting, solidly coded games do the best of all -- perhaps
because they're the most fun for the judges to play? Speaking for myself,
though, I'd rather play an ordinary bug-free game than a game that has a
really nifty idea but breaks every few minutes. Guess I'm still reacting
to all the buggy entries in last year's comp.

--
Paul O'Brian obr...@colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~obrian
The pulse-pounding, electrifying, edge-of-your-seat event you've been waiting
for is here! Yes, SPAG #21 is out! http://www.sparkynet.com/spag


LucFrench

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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No, that would imply he reads the newsgroup (which he pretty plainly doesn't).
Where else would my name be listed in relation to the IF-Comp?

Thanks
Luc "Honest" French
[Posted & Emailed]

Andrew Plotkin

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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I'm sorry, I missed some context. Who is "this guy" and what email are we
talking about?

Adam Cadre

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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Kathleen Fischer wrote:
> Which leads me to wonder... what's the average length of time people
> spend creating a comp game?

Data point: Photopia took six weeks. (By which I mean I spent most of
the day working on it every day for six weeks.)

By comparison, I-0 took six weeks (including the time to learn
Inform), Varicella took eight months, 9:05 took four days, and
Shrapnel took about five weeks.

-----
Adam Cadre, Sammamish, WA
http://adamcadre.ac

J. Robinson Wheeler

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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Andrew Plotkin wrote:

>> LucFrench wrote:
>>
>>> Facinating fact:
>>>
>>> This guy sent this as an email to Wizzard (Kevin Wilson, author of Avalon)
>>> and me. I'll summarize what Wizzard said as a result of this communication,
>>> if anybody cares enough to ask. (I'm too tired right now.)
>

> I'm sorry, I missed some context. Who is "this guy" and what email are we
> talking about?

Er, yeah. What was the "this" that "this guy" sent?

Which is to say, go ahead and summarize, already.

--
J. Robinson Wheeler http://thekroneexperiment.com
whe...@jump.net


J. Robinson Wheeler

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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MFischer5 wrote:

> What's the average length of time people spend creating a comp game?

"Four in One" took two and a half months. I started it on July 16 and
sent it in on Sept 30.

MFischer5

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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From: Adam Cadre a...@adamcadre.ac
>Data point: Photopia took six weeks. (By which I mean I spent most of
>the day working on it every day for six weeks.)
>
>By comparison, I-0 took six weeks (including the time to learn
>Inform), Varicella took eight months, 9:05 took four days, and
>Shrapnel took about five weeks.

I hate you :) It took me 3 months just to write Cove. (3 months at ~1 hour
per night).

Kathleen

Adam Cadre

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Jul 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/4/00
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Kathleen Fischer wrote:
> It took me 3 months just to write Cove. (3 months at ~1 hour
> per night).

Well, see, there you go. That works out to, what, about 90 hours?
Which works out to about six of my 15-hour days (which is about how
much time I put in per day when I get into crunch mode.) I'm not
really especially fast -- far from it. Judging from Cove's file
size, you packed a lot more into your 90 hours than I've packed into
any 90 of mine.

Weird Beard

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Jul 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/5/00
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"LucFrench" <lucf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000704013407...@ng-fe1.aol.com...

> Facinating fact:
>
> This guy sent this as an email to Wizzard (Kevin Wilson, author of Avalon)
and
> me. I'll summarize what Wizzard said as a result of this communication, if
> anybody cares enough to ask. (I'm too tired right now.)
>
> (Fifty points for correctly guessing where he got my email address, and
why he
> thought I was an authority on the IF-Comp.)
>
One year you got a list of where each person placed, even though this
information wasn't supposed to be revealed. As for your e-mail, unless the
one you use to post here is phony, I can't see what the secret is.

LucFrench

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Jul 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/5/00
to
J. Robinson Wheeler wrote:
>Andrew Plotkin wrote:
>
>>> LucFrench wrote:
>>>
>>>> Facinating fact:
>>>>
>>>> This guy sent this as an email to Wizzard (Kevin Wilson, author of
>Avalon)
>>>> and me. I'll summarize what Wizzard said as a result of this
>communication,
>>>> if anybody cares enough to ask. (I'm too tired right now.)
>>
>> I'm sorry, I missed some context. Who is "this guy" and what email are we
>> talking about?
>
>Er, yeah. What was the "this" that "this guy" sent?
>
>Which is to say, go ahead and summarize, already.

"This guy" was the guy who wrote:

"So, where do I find out about the IF competitions. Are they still
around? Having trouble finding the stuff again after all these
years......"

He both emailed me and Wizzard, and posted it to both raif and rgif. I
responded while both tired and annoyed. Wizzard responded to my response with
the following:

<<> Just as a random question:
>
> Why the fsck are you sending this to me? Whizzard<sp> I can understand,
but
> why me?

Heheh. Long time no hear Luc. Always amusing to get random questions I am
totally incapable of answering. Makes a nice change from 7th Sea questions
that
I can't answer.

-Kevin>>

[Sorry, Kevin/Wizzard, if your reading this; just thought that was interesting
to other people. I also (not included in the quote) pointed the guy at
textfire, before people flame me for not being helpful.]

I sent him the answer (I'm still giving fifty points to anybody who can guess
why he thought I was an authority), and a few questions, since it's been a
while since anybody round here heard from him.

Apparently, he's working on an RPG, a CCG <?>, and a novel; he also has his
name on "about 5 or 6
published RPG products now." He's apparently spending most of his time on work.

Okay, hopefully, people are going to be quiet now, and let me go back to sleep.

Thanks
Luc "Me, an Authority Figure? I can't afford to be an Authority Figure!" French

LucFrench

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Jul 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/5/00
to
>
>"LucFrench" <lucf...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20000704013407...@ng-fe1.aol.com...
>> Facinating fact:
>>
>> This guy sent this as an email to Wizzard (Kevin Wilson, author of Avalon)
>and
>> me. I'll summarize what Wizzard said as a result of this communication, if
>> anybody cares enough to ask. (I'm too tired right now.)
>>
>> (Fifty points for correctly guessing where he got my email address, and
>why he

>> thought I was an authority on the IF-Comp.)
>>
>One year you got a list of where each person placed, even though this
>information wasn't supposed to be revealed. As for your e-mail, unless the
>one you use to post here is phony, I can't see what the secret is.

You're close, but not close enough. If you can figure out why he thought I why
I was an authority, you can also figure out where he got my address.

Thanks
Luc "Getting warmer" French

Daryl McCullough

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Jul 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/5/00
to
In article <20000704180605...@ng-fl1.aol.com>, mfis...@aol.com
says...

>
>From: Adam Cadre a...@adamcadre.ac
>>Data point: Photopia took six weeks. (By which I mean I spent most of
>>the day working on it every day for six weeks.)
>>
>>By comparison, I-0 took six weeks (including the time to learn
>>Inform), Varicella took eight months, 9:05 took four days, and
>>Shrapnel took about five weeks.
>
>I hate you :) It took me 3 months just to write Cove. (3 months at ~1 hour
>per night).
>
>Kathleen

I've been working on my one and only game since 1997, at the rate of about 2 or
3 hours per month. Having 4 kids, I just don't find much more time than that.
(Maybe I should give up USENET?)

Daryl McCullough
CoGenTex, Inc.
Ithaca, NY


Daryl McCullough

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Jul 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/5/00
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Anson says...

[About Adam Cadre]

>So -- check my math here -- you spent around 630 hours on Photopia? Roughly
>equivalent to 4 months working a "full-time" job. I can't seem to find any
>record of which prize you selected (if that was even released) but the largest
>cash prize was $150, which works out to less than 24 cents per hour.

Call 60 minutes! The Canadian IF industry exploits its workers,
pays starvation wages! These IF sweatshops must be shut down!
Boycott interactive fiction!

Joe Mason

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Jul 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/6/00
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Daryl McCullough <da...@cogentex.com> wrote:
>>cash prize was $150, which works out to less than 24 cents per hour.
>
>Call 60 minutes! The Canadian IF industry exploits its workers,
>pays starvation wages! These IF sweatshops must be shut down!
>Boycott interactive fiction!

YOU CANADIANS ARE ALL COMMUNIST!

JOE

ct

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Jul 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/10/00
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In article <20000705102359...@ng-bg1.aol.com>,

LucFrench <lucf...@aol.com> wrote:
>I sent him the answer (I'm still giving fifty points to anybody who can guess
>why he thought I was an authority),

I recall an occasion when you were berated for masquerading as a
competition official (quite which one presently escapes me) - how the
little fall-out on the newsgroup would mislead anyone (particularly if
they don't read the newsgroup) I fail to see, so it's probably not
that.

regards, ct

Martin Julian DeMello

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Jul 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM7/14/00
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Daryl McCullough <da...@cogentex.com> wrote:

> Call 60 minutes! The Canadian IF industry exploits its workers,
> pays starvation wages! These IF sweatshops must be shut down!
> Boycott interactive fiction!

"22 Minutes" might be more interested :)

--
Martin DeMello

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