which language is best to make a game with graphics
zero_kanipan
best suited for graphics (plus how hard it is to learn)...im planning
to try adrift but im kinda skeptical of the size limit in the
shareware (still a student + not in the US + no credit card = no means
of paying for full version)..also the (what seems to me at first
glance) limited verb list...can you please shed some light on my
clouded mind...thanx
Adam Thornton
People have had excellent results with Glulx Inform, Hugo, and HTML
Tads, and Ross will cry if I don't mention v6lib, which would be plain
old zMachine Inform. Adam Cadre's done some interesting work with Glulx
Inform, and a more object-oriented approach is GWindows. If I were
starting a new project I'd probably use Glulx Inform and GWindows.
Adam
Adam Thornton
And I be remiss if I didn't mention Doe's Inform Glx/Glulx for Dunces,
which is basically what I used to implement SMTUC. It's mostly a layer
of Inform veneer over Cadre's routines which make them easier to use.
Anyway, URLs, if you decide to go the Glulx Inform route:
http://members.aol.com/doepage/glkdunces.htm
http://adamcadre.ac/gull/gull.html
http://justice.loyola.edu/~lraszews/if/gwindoc/gwindows.htm
Adam
Eric F.
>best suited for graphics (plus how hard it is to learn)...im planning
>to try adrift but im kinda skeptical
Hugo seems bery good. If I was writing a game in english, I'd try it.
Html tads seems interesting too.
I'm using Glulx / Inform, it's not bad, but yet a bit difficult to set.
With JustEnoughGlux, by R. Firth, it's a bit easier :
http://www.firthworks.com/roger/glulx
On my website I've put an archive with all you need (except manuals) to
start coding with glulx support for musics and graphics :
http://anamnese.online.fr/if/aventuregtb_uk.zip
Please note Glulx is good, but there is a major limitation in comparison
with Tads or Hugo : neither mp3 or Midi files are supported.
Handorobou
character image placed in front of a background image.
Which tools allow alternative means of player input? For instance,
buttons and other graphical "clickies" instead of or in addition to
text input and parser.
Simon Baldwin
Glulx Inform offers the notion of both overlapping images, and explicit image
placement. There are some trade-offs, however. While it can display images
inlined in text, these are limited to placement to flow with text (think
HTML here). To get overlapping and control over placement, you'd need
to use a dedicated graphics window; okay as far as it goes, but it does need
its own partitioned display area, and perhaps more restrictively, can't show
text at all easily.
Other restrictions -- Glulx only supports JPEG and PNG image formats, at least
for the moment. And while Glulx may offer something, selected implementations
may not in fact do it. Glulx allows you to check for a capability, and react
accordingly; this can sometimes translates into copious runtime checks in the
game code (or, at the other extreme, stop with an error if the interpreter
lacks feature XYZ).
Glulx Inform also understands mouse clicks in certain contexts, including on
graphical elements, and a limited notion of hyperlinks. By no means all Glulx
games use these features, though.
For demos of Glulx with graphics, I'd suggest
http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/glulx/sensory.blb
http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/glulx/balances.blb
http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/glulx/advent.blb
and more or less anything else in this archive directory.
For more examples and information you could do a lot worse than
http://adamcadre.ac/gull/index.html
http://members.aol.com/doepage/glkdunces.htm
I'm sure Hugo, TADS et al offer similar features, but I'll let others speak
on those since I've no experience of them.
Adam Thornton
Simon Baldwin <sim...@sco.com> wrote:
>For demos of Glulx with graphics, I'd suggest
>
> http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/glulx/sensory.blb
> http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/glulx/balances.blb
> http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/glulx/advent.blb
No one suggests SMTUC. I weep.
Adam
Eric F.
>character image placed in front of a background image.
for this I'd recommend SCI Studio instead
http://www.bripro.com/scistudio/index.php
Maybe with some advanced features of Glulx it's still possible, I don't
know.
If you want a sierra- or lucasfilm-like adventure game, I don't know if
Inform / Tads or Hugo are for you...
>Which tools allow alternative means of player input? For instance,
>buttons and other graphical "clickies" instead of or in addition to
>text input and parser.
you can use GToolbar with glulx :
some views of it :
http://www.geocities.com/simon_baldwin/packages/advent.gif
http://www.geocities.com/simon_baldwin/packages/advent_blb.bin
http://www.geocities.com/simon_baldwin/packages/gtoolbar.zip
you can see also a picture of the version I've modified (I wanted to
have my own icons instead of the linux kde ones, but it's still in
construction...)
http://anamnese.online.fr/if/comerace.html
Robb Sherwin
wrote:
I thought that Hugo's implementation of graphics was really
straightforward when I first learned it. Kent Tessman (the author of
Hugo) has also released the source code to a graphical text adventure
called "Guilty Bastards," which was a great aid when I was first
trying to get pictures up on the screen.
You can download Hugo and get an overview on what it's all about right
here: http://www.generalcoffee.com/
(In terms of non-text adventure languages -- I have been meaning to do
some sort of personal roundup and information gathering exercise on
all the Sierra, Lucasarts and Japanese console-style engines that are
out there. There's AGS, the one based on SCUMM whose exact name
escapes me, and a few others. Anyone had any experiences using a few
of those development packages?)
Robb
=-=-=-=-=-
Robb Sherwin, Fort Collins CO
Jolt Country BBS: www.joltcountry.com/phpBB2
Reviews From Trotting krips: www.joltcountry.com/trottingkrips
L. Ross Raszewski
>
>Glulx Inform offers the notion of both overlapping images, and explicit image
>placement. There are some trade-offs, however. While it can display images
>inlined in text, these are limited to placement to flow with text (think
>HTML here). To get overlapping and control over placement, you'd need
>to use a dedicated graphics window; okay as far as it goes, but it does need
>its own partitioned display area, and perhaps more restrictively, can't show
>text at all easily.
Not true. Glulx inform offers the ability to display images inlined in
text, just as you say, but it also allows you to display an image
anywhere you like inside a graphics window. The only restriction, in
terms of images, is that an image cannot overlap text.
>
>Other restrictions -- Glulx only supports JPEG and PNG image formats, at least
>for the moment. And while Glulx may offer something, selected implementations
>may not in fact do it. Glulx allows you to check for a capability, and react
>accordingly; this can sometimes translates into copious runtime checks in the
>game code (or, at the other extreme, stop with an error if the interpreter
>lacks feature XYZ).
And the forseeable future. The only major graphics-distribution format
it doesn't support is GIF, which was purposefully omitted for legal
reasons.
> http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/glulx/sensory.blb
> http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/glulx/balances.blb
> http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/glulx/advent.blb
Yay balances.blb.
L. Ross Raszewski
F. <anam...@DONTSPAMcaramail.com> wrote:
>
>for this I'd recommend SCI Studio instead
>http://www.bripro.com/scistudio/index.php
>Maybe with some advanced features of Glulx it's still possible, I don't
>know.
>If you want a sierra- or lucasfilm-like adventure game, I don't know if
>Inform / Tads or Hugo are for you...
>
Aside from the relative slowness, the major problem doing something
like this in Glulx Inform is that if you mean to do anything that
involves perspective geometry, you'll have to work around the lack of
floating point numbers when doing the trigonometry.
>
>>Which tools allow alternative means of player input? For instance,
>>buttons and other graphical "clickies" instead of or in addition to
>>text input and parser.
>
>you can use GToolbar with glulx :
>
Plugh: You can also do this with GWindows under Glulx. It's somewhat
harder to use, but it does a much wider variety of stuff than GToolbar
is meant to.
Rikard Peterson
> (In terms of non-text adventure languages -- I have been meaning
> to do some sort of personal roundup and information gathering
> exercise on all the Sierra, Lucasarts and Japanese console-style
> engines that are out there. There's AGS, the one based on SCUMM
> whose exact name escapes me, and a few others. Anyone had any
> experiences using a few of those development packages?)
>
> Robb
Yes, I'm currently part of a small team making a game with SLUDGE (IMHO
the best of that bunch). A good starting point for your roundup would
be to visit The Crow's Nest http://trumgottist.com/crowsnest/ a site I
am running that contains a database of games and engines (AFAIK it's
the most complete one of it's kind - there are currently 97 games
listed). Ten engines are listed on TCN, but AGS, SLUDGE and AGAST are
currently the ones worth bothering with in my opinion.
Rikard
Simon Baldwin
> On 7 Feb 2003 10:07:57 -0800, Simon Baldwin <sim...@sco.com> wrote:
> >
> >Glulx Inform offers the notion of both overlapping images, and explicit image
> >placement. There are some trade-offs, however. While it can display images
> >inlined in text, these are limited to placement to flow with text (think
> >HTML here). To get overlapping and control over placement, you'd need
> >to use a dedicated graphics window; okay as far as it goes, but it does need
> >its own partitioned display area, and perhaps more restrictively, can't show
> >text at all easily.
>
> Not true. Glulx inform offers the ability to display images inlined in
> text, just as you say, but it also allows you to display an image
> anywhere you like inside a graphics window. The only restriction, in
> terms of images, is that an image cannot overlap text.
Umm... I thought that's what I'd said... Text windows display text, with
inlined images a la HTML if desired. Graphics windows display images with
control down the pixel/overlay level, but without text (for most practical
purposes). Whatever. :-)
Handorobou
> placement. There are some trade-offs, however. While it can display images
> inlined in text, these are limited to placement to flow with text (think
> HTML here). To get overlapping and control over placement, you'd need
> to use a dedicated graphics window; okay as far as it goes, but it does need
> its own partitioned display area, and perhaps more restrictively, can't show
> text at all easily.
A dedicated graphics window and dedicated text window is exactly what
I want.
> >Do any of those tools allow layering of images? For instance, a
> >character image placed in front of a background image.
> >for this I'd recommend SCI Studio instead
> >http://www.bripro.com/scistudio/index.php
> >Maybe with some advanced features of Glulx it's still possible, I don't
> >know.
> >If you want a sierra- or lucasfilm-like adventure game, I don't know if
> >Inform / Tads or Hugo are for you...
I'm not looking to make a 3rd person animated game. I want to make a
1st person game with still graphics. But I've got to have the
overlapping images. (character on background scene)
Glulx looks promising. I tried some of those game but I didn't notice
any that utilizes overlapping images. Which ones do? Also, will
there be MIDI support for glulx sometime soon?
I don't think I'll be needing a parser. But I'm still willing to
consider IF-authoring languages because they're pretty much all free,
pretty much all multi-platform, and there are other things they seem
to do well.
SLUDGE is looking good. Might just go with that. I'd rather it
wasn't only for Windows but I guess you can't have everything.
L. Ross Raszewski
>I'm not looking to make a 3rd person animated game. I want to make a
>1st person game with still graphics. But I've got to have the
>overlapping images. (character on background scene)
That's dandy. If you wanty something similar to, say, Legend's text
games, Glulx can do that easy.
But it does sound a lot more like what you really want to write is a
pure graphic adventure, in which case, I think AGAST, SLUDGE, or AGS
would be better choices (I think at least one of them can
do first-person games)... THough it would be *possible* to do it in
Glulx, I'm not sure it would be worthwhile.
>
>Glulx looks promising. I tried some of those game but I didn't notice
>any that utilizes overlapping images. Which ones do? Also, will
>there be MIDI support for glulx sometime soon?
Well, Balances overlaps some images, but it mostly does it to
construct its clickable UI elements rather than to compose a scene the
way you're trying to do.
There is almost certainly not going to be MIDI support for Glulx; TPTB
object to Midi on the grounds that it sounds different on every
platform (And it does. It sounds absolutely awful on my new
computer). What it does support is MOD, a format that is sort of
half-way between Midi and untracked music. It's possible but
nontrivial to convert a midi file into a MOD.
>
>I don't think I'll be needing a parser. But I'm still willing to
>consider IF-authoring languages because they're pretty much all free,
>pretty much all multi-platform, and there are other things they seem
>to do well.
>SLUDGE is looking good. Might just go with that. I'd rather it
>wasn't only for Windows but I guess you can't have everything.
If portability is your concern, I'd look at SCI or AGI (Or possibly
SCRAMM, but that's been vaporaware so long I'm not sure if it's
materialized). AGI is an amazingly arcane format with far worse
limitations than anything else you're liable to look at, and I'm not
sure how fully functional SCI building tools are right now, but they
have the avantage that they're the engines used by Sierra, and I think
both of them have been ported off-windows.
boa13
>
> ([midi] sounds absolutely awful on my new computer).
I suggest you install TiMidity, of quality software MIDI player.
--
spam....@free.fr
You have my nick and my hostname: you can mail me
Rikard Peterson
news:mgd1a.2123$SB2...@nwrddc03.gnilink.net:
> a pure graphic adventure, in which case, I think AGAST, SLUDGE, or
> AGS would be better choices (I think at least one of them can
> do first-person games)...
It is absolutely possible in SLUDGE (which is the one I'm most
familiar with). The engine has no concept of a playable character,
all that functionality is written in the scripts so a first person
game would be even easier to make than a 3rd person one. You won't
get a parser and the text output system isn't designed for text
adventures, but if you don't want those things, then that's clearly
not a problem.
> If portability is your concern, I'd look at SCI or AGI (Or
> possibly SCRAMM, but that's been vaporaware so long I'm not sure
> if it's materialized).
SCRAMM never was released and is dead, but I don't think it was ever
planned to be anything but Windows only either.
Rikard
Handorobou
> L. Ross Raszewski wrote in
> news:mgd1a.2123$SB2...@nwrddc03.gnilink.net:
> > But it does sound a lot more like what you really want to write is
> > a pure graphic adventure, in which case, I think AGAST, SLUDGE, or
> > AGS would be better choices (I think at least one of them can
> > do first-person games)...
>
> It is absolutely possible in SLUDGE (which is the one I'm most
> familiar with). The engine has no concept of a playable character,
> all that functionality is written in the scripts so a first person
> game would be even easier to make than a 3rd person one. You won't
> get a parser and the text output system isn't designed for text
> adventures, but if you don't want those things, then that's clearly
> not a problem.
Yes, SLUDGE is at the top of my list. The text output system is a
little weak, as you say, but it ought to do the job.
Well, I think I have enough information to make a decision now.
Thanks, everyone.