Occasionally, Graphics Would Be Good
The Essential Addition
myself wishing for some graphic capablities within TADS.
It's horrible, but I now have two excellent puzzles which are just too
difficult to describe in text. Try this, and see how you would react as
a player:
Royal Architect's Quarters
(Pretty room description)
There are nine cubes sitting on the table, marked "A"-"I"
>LOOK AT "A" CUBE
Like all of the cubes, the "A" cube is made of a dark, swirling stone,
with an arrow carved into one side. With the arrow turned topside and
facing forward, this cube also has crescent-shaped openings on the
forward face at the bottom, on the right face at the front face, on the
bottom at the left face, on the bottom at the back face, and a circular
opening is at the center of the front face.
>TURN CUBE FORWARD
OK, you turn the cube.
>LOOK AT IT
Like all of the cubes ...
ETC., ETC. The object is to stack the cubes in a pattern where openings
are matched up. My question is this -- does the description above make ANY
sense to you, or is it too confusing to bother with?
Be honest. I like the puzzle, because it gives the player an opportunity
to BUILD the maze which he is eventually going to enter, thus eliminating
a lot of the guesswork. However, I'm not married to it yet (particularly
because it'll be a bitch to code).
--
| "I drank what?" The Essential Addition "Dave, I'm feeling |
| - Socrates rbryan@ netcom.com much better now." |
| [PRISM I: Firegods Coming in November] - HAL, 2001 |
Felix Lee
> Like all of the cubes, the "A" cube is made of a dark, swirling stone,
>with an arrow carved into one side. With the arrow turned topside and
>facing forward, this cube also has crescent-shaped openings on the
>forward face at the bottom, on the right face at the front face, on the
>bottom at the left face, on the bottom at the back face, and a circular
>opening is at the center of the front face.
> My question is this -- does the description above make ANY
>sense to you, or is it too confusing to bother with?
Way too confusing. I couldn't figure out what the cube was supposed
to look like. Is this right? (I used trapezoids instead of crescents
for clarity.)
_________
| _____ |
| \___/ |
| |
| |
________|_______|________________
| | _ | | |
| |`. | /|\ | | |
| | | | | | ___ | ___ |
| |.' | | | /___\ | /___\ |
|_______|_______|_______|_______|
| |
| _ |
| (_) |
| |
|_______|
This is a puzzle I don't think I'd like even if it were done in
high-res graphics. I'd want a real set of cubes in front of me.
--
Erik Max Francis
> Be honest. I like the puzzle, because it gives the player an opportunity
> to BUILD the maze which he is eventually going to enter, thus eliminating
> a lot of the guesswork. However, I'm not married to it yet (particularly
> because it'll be a bitch to code).
Could you do some sort of pseudo-graphical picture in ASCII text?
This would work just fine, so long as your intentions in the "drawing"
are very clear at first glance.
The other advantage to this is that it's simple, and in addition, it's
portable (at least to other ASCII machines). Remember not to use
eight-bit ASCII codes, though; those aren't portable.
Erik Max Francis, &tSftDotIotE ...!uuwest!alcyone!max m...@alcyone.darkside.com
San Jose, California, USA -><- -><- ICBM: 37 20 N 121 53 W _
H.3`S,3,P,3$S,#$Q,C`Q,3,P,3$S,#$Q,3`Q,3,P,C$Q,#(Q.#`-"C`- ftmfbs kmmfa / \
Omnia quia sunt, lumina sunt. ("All things that are, are lights.") -><- \_/
john t baker
>As the complexity of Firegods continues to increase, I suddenly find
>myself wishing for some graphic capablities within TADS.
The idea of ASCII-art is a good one. If this will still not be detailed
enough, you could get a third-party GIF viewing routine library, create the
GIF images, and call C-routines through user exits.
I have no idea if this would actually work, but it's the first thing that
popped into my head. If you try this, let us know what the results are.
--
John Baker
"It ain't an easy life being a self-parody."
- John Baker
The Essential Addition
>to look like. Is this right? (I used trapezoids instead of crescents
>for clarity.)
> _________
> | _____ |
> | \___/ |
> | |
> | |
> ________|_______|________________
> | | _ | | |
> | |`. | /|\ | | |
> | | | | | | ___ | ___ |
> | |.' | | | /___\ | /___\ |
> |_______|_______|_______|_______|
> | |
> | _ |
> | (_) |
> | |
> |_______|
It couldn't have been that confusing -- you're basically correct.
>This is a puzzle I don't think I'd like even if it were done in
>high-res graphics. I'd want a real set of cubes in front of me.
Great! Anyone have access to a plastics factory?
Forget it -- it's a neat idea which has to go the way of disco.
S.P.Harvey
: Great! Anyone have access to a plastics factory?
: Forget it -- it's a neat idea which has to go the way of disco.
This seems too decent a puzzle idea to toss it completely, especially in
light of my recent Q&A on maze designs. Maybe, for simplicity's sake,
you could try reducing the cubes to squares and make a sliding-puzzle
type maze. I can guarantee that this is a) easier to code, and b) easier
to represent in the text, while still preserving a decent idea.
Scott
--
----------------------| S.P. Harvey |--------------------------
"Abducted by an alien circus company, Professor Doyle is forced to write
calculus equations in center ring." - The Far Side
----------------------| sha...@interaccess.com |--------------------------
DBlaheta
IF SIMULATION : ON
>look
There are several cubes here, lettered A through I.
>x the a cube
(picking up the a cube)
It has interesting designs on each of its six faces. In fact, the three
sides facing you look like this:
____
/ /|
/ ( / |
/___/ >|
| | /
| ) | /
|___|/
>rotate the cube
around which axis? /=X -=Y |=Z
>Y
____
/ /|
/ U / |
/___/ ^|
| | /
| ( | /
|___|/
>drop cube
You set it on the table, retaining the orientation you just set it to.
SIMULATION MODE OFF
Of course, a sliding puzzle would be much easier to draw and code, viz.
___________
| | | |
| ) | ^ | ( |
|___|___|___|
and so forth.
Don Blaheta
dbla...@aol.com
russell wallace
>As the complexity of Firegods continues to increase, I suddenly find
>myself wishing for some graphic capablities within TADS.
>It's horrible, but I now have two excellent puzzles which are just too
>difficult to describe in text. Try this, and see how you would react as
>a player:
Do it with an ASCII map, like the maze in either Enchanter or Sorcerer
(sorry, I can't remember which it was, anyone care to enlighten me? :))
--
"To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem"
Russell Wallace, Trinity College, Dublin
rwal...@vax1.tcd.ie
Andrew C. Plotkin
Graphics Woul.. The E. Addition@netcom.c (1614)
> It's horrible, but I now have two excellent puzzles which are just too
> difficult to describe in text. Try this, and see how you would react as
> a player:
[nifty-sounding example deleted]
THEORY PART:
I agree that inset graphics greatly extend the classic Infocom IF
format, at a controllable cost.
The cost is that the player doesn't have the ability to diddle with the
graphic interface all the time; only in certain situations. That is a
strong hint as to when the graphic objects are to be used. In your
example, players would know when the orientation of the cubes matters,
because they can only be oriented when the interface switches to
graphics.
As long as the author keeps that in mind, it's a small problem.
ACTUAL ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION PART: :-)
> The object is to stack the cubes in a pattern where openings
> are matched up. My question is this -- does the description above make ANY
> sense to you, or is it too confusing to bother with?
As a text description, it's probably too confusing. Some people will go
to the effort to figure it out; many will just start to whimper.
Can you get a nice ASCII-art representation? Does TADS allow ASCII art?
(Have you considered switching to Inform? (-: )
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
Felix Lee
>It couldn't have been that confusing -- you're basically correct.
Well, I'm surprised :). I forgot to mention how much work I spent
trying to figure out what "on the right face at the front face" meant:
- the south edge of the east face
- the top edge of the east face
- the north edge of the east face
- the east edge of the south face
- the east edge of the north face
S.P.Harvey:
>Maybe, for simplicity's sake,
>you could try reducing the cubes to squares and make a sliding-puzzle
>type maze.
yah. Something flat would be better than cubes.
--
Matthew Amster
>The idea of ASCII-art is a good one. If this will still not be detailed
>enough, you could get a third-party GIF viewing routine library, create the
>GIF images, and call C-routines through user exits.
This is a good idea, and one I had myself. Unfortunately, it's impossible
because user exits must be compiled in tiny mode, and that graphics screen
won't fit.
Have you taken a look at TADS/G? Might be good for this sort of thing,
though I wasn't so impressed with the beta.
Matthew
The Essential Addition
window so easily.
Let me briefly explain the dilemna here. By having the cubes interlock,
I wanted to allow the player to build the maze. The sliding puzzle does
make this much easier not only to code, but also to understand.
However, the original conception of the puzzle came from a desire to
build the kind of maze that Escher would have built, ending with the
dramatic act of jumping from the top of the maze to the bottom of the
maze, grabbing an important object on the way down, and exiting the maze
in this same manner.
The original concept: A maze of twenty-seven rooms which the player
can NOT manipulate, where the maze is a 3*3*3 cube. Doors are visible on
the walls, the ceiling, and the floor (although stepping into a door
on the floor results in a significant fall), and the player can walk onto
certain walls (those walls that do not have doors), turning the maze's
orientation and giving access to new doors. The player can not reach the
object suspended in mid-air at the maze's center (i.e. in the middle of
the center room), but by reaching the the top-center room he can jump down
a circular opening, grab the object, and zip through the maze's entrance/exit
to complete the puzzle. I must admit that I like the way it works out.
As with all of the difficult puzzles in Firegods, there will be a sneaky
method to solve the maze without going to all the trouble.
Just to let you all know, I've decided to stick with this original
design. However, I like the player-adjustable maze idea so much that I
am also going to code that into the sequel. As a two-dimensional maze,
it actually sounds rather intriguing.
Thanks for the help.
-TEA-
Greg Ewing
The cubes are translucent, and have various markings
and openings in the sides.
> x cube
+---------------------------+
/ . /|
/ . / |
/ . . . . . . . . . / |
/ . . / |
/ . . / . |
/ . . / . |
/ . . . / . |
+----------------------------+ |
| . | |
| . | / \ |
| . | / |
| . | / | |
| . | | |
| . | ^ / |
| . . . . . . . | . . . ./. . +
| ------ | | / /
| /. \ | | / /
| /. \ | | /
| | | | /
| . | | | /
| . --------------- | /
|. |/
+----------------------------+
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--------------------------------------+
University of Canterbury, | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a |
Christchurch, New Zealand | wholly-owned subsidiary of Japan Inc.|
gr...@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz +--------------------------------------+
Felix Lee
about something more like this:
1 ,oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
2 ,dP' ,d8
3 ,dP' : ,dP'8
4 ,dP' : ,dP' 8
5 ,dP' : ,dP' 8
6 ,dP' ,ood88bo, ,dP' 8
7 ,dP' ,od8888888888b ,dP' 8
8 ,dP' d8888888888888P ,dP' 8
9 888888888888888888888888888888' db, 8
0 88 : 88 d88"8, 8
1 88 : 88 dP88 8
2 88.::. : 88 dP 88 8
3 88::::. : .::88::. 88 8
4 88::::: : .::::88::::.88 8
5 88::::: : ::::::88:::::88 8
6 88::::: :.....:::::::88:::::88.....8
7 88::::' .' 88 88 ,8
8 88:::' .' 88 P' ,dP'
9 88::' .' 88 ,dP'
0 88' .',od8888bo, 88 ,dP'
1 88 .',d8888888888b, 88 ,dP'
2 88 .' ,88888888888888, 88 ,dP'
3 88.' 8888888888888888 88dP'
4 888888888888888888888888888888'
And if you want to get really elaborate, how about a 3-d ascii
stereogram? Well, not for this type of picture: the side faces
wouldn't work right.
--