Why I am no longer a Graduate Student
Adam Thornton
http://www.scummbar.com/resources/articles/read.php?in=13
Wow.
I find it terrifying that I was once in real danger of becoming one of
these.
Sheesh. It's a *game*. Sure, by making money for LucasArts it's
reinforcing the Horrible Hegemenony of The West and Forcing McDonald's
Down Indigenous Cultures' Throats.
But, geez, lighten up, eh? Since when is a video game supposed to
provide a force to challenge the Evil Forces Of Hegemony?
Adam
P.S. I stopped believing in cultural relativism too. Here's one
reason: http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/07/06/pakistan.rape/
Here's another: http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/2002/nigeria08202002.html
Screw it. Better a culture that produces McDonald's and Barney--and
wants everyone to consume them--than either of those.
Isaac Deutscher
> While wandering around the net, I found this:
>
> http://www.scummbar.com/resources/articles/read.php?in=13
>
> Wow.
>
> I find it terrifying that I was once in real danger of becoming one of
> these.
Bitterness is so unatractive.
> Sheesh. It's a *game*. Sure, by making money for LucasArts it's
> reinforcing the Horrible Hegemenony of The West and Forcing McDonald's
> Down Indigenous Cultures' Throats.
>
> But, geez, lighten up, eh? Since when is a video game supposed to
> provide a force to challenge the Evil Forces Of Hegemony?
>
> Adam
So you find postmodernism lacking. How original.
> P.S. I stopped believing in cultural relativism too. Here's one
> reason: http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/07/06/pakistan.rape/
>
> Here's another: http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/2002/nigeria08202002.html
CNN and Amnesty USA... Why don't you quote Pim Fortuyn while you're at it?
> Screw it. Better a culture that produces McDonald's and Barney--and
> wants everyone to consume them--than either of those.
Are you saying that gang rape is a typically Islamic phenomenon?
Adam Thornton
Isaac Deutscher <isaac_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Screw it. Better a culture that produces McDonald's and Barney--and
>> wants everyone to consume them--than either of those.
>Are you saying that gang rape is a typically Islamic phenomenon?
Oddly, no.
I never said anything of the sort.
It appears to be an Afghan tribal phenomenon. At least, from CNN and
other such dubious sources.
Thanks for putting words into my mouth, though.
Adam
Adam Thornton
>Isaac Deutscher <isaac_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Screw it. Better a culture that produces McDonald's and Barney--and
>>> wants everyone to consume them--than either of those.
>>Are you saying that gang rape is a typically Islamic phenomenon?
Oddly, no.
I never said, or implied, anything of the sort.
It appears to be a Pakistani tribal phenomenon. At least, from CNN and
other such dubious sources.
Thanks for putting words into my mouth, though. Interesting that you
assumed that what I said was an attack on Islam; perhaps you'd like to
tell us some of your other assumptions? It's also interesting that you
impugned the sources I quoted without actually saying anything about
their veracity; are you claiming that a girl was not, in fact, sentenced
to gang-rape because of inappopriate social conduct on the part of her
brother in Pakistan? Are you claiming that Amina Lawal was not
sentenced to death by stoning in Nigeria for bearing a child out of
wedlock?
And hey, on an unrelated note, how do you feel about Leni Riefenstahl's
100th birthday, which today is?
Apologies if an earlier (and somewhat factually incorrect, although how
much difference exists between Afghan and Pakistani tribal law I
honestly do not know) version of this post escaped into the wild. I
don't know if I cancelled it quickly enough or not.
Adam
Erik George Hetzner
: Adam Thornton
:> While wandering around the net, I found this:
:>
:> http://www.scummbar.com/resources/articles/read.php?in=13
:>
:> Wow.
:>
:> I find it terrifying that I was once in real danger of becoming one of
:> these.
: Bitterness is so unatractive.
:> Sheesh. It's a *game*. Sure, by making money for LucasArts it's
:> reinforcing the Horrible Hegemenony of The West and Forcing McDonald's
:> Down Indigenous Cultures' Throats.
:>
:> But, geez, lighten up, eh? Since when is a video game supposed to
:> provide a force to challenge the Evil Forces Of Hegemony?
:>
:> Adam
: So you find postmodernism lacking. How original.
Would it be somehow more original if he found it not lacking? Not
where I have studied.
Have you read the article? I did. The author is too inexperienced in
the game of hip literary and philosophical writing to be able to
totally obscure that what he is writing is composed of (a) truisms and
(b) totally bizarre statements that I doubt anybody could explain.
In addition, its an indictment of self-emasculation of academic
radicalism. Here's a good example, from the essay: `Monkey Island
satirises conservative ideologies but rarely goes beyond that into
anything that is likely to lead to a change in those ideologies.'
Really. But by dissecting and deconstructing the game, the author has
no doubt played his part in the dismantling of western, hegemonic,
capitalist, ... (insert oppressions-of-the-month) ideology.
I even agree with the sort of criticisms that these articles tend to
make, generally. This is why I find these sort of articles so
obnoxious. Congratulations on adding yet another postmodern critique
of yet another work of fiction. The world is now just that much closer
to total emancipation. Oh, wait; no, it's not. You, however, are much
closer to a degree. Congratulations.
(If the author of this essay is reading this, please understand
that I mean you no particular disrespect. I place much more blame
on Lyotard than I do you. :)
PS: Is your name really Isaac Deutscher, or are you just a huge fan of
Trotskyist historians?
[ snip snip ]
James Mitchelhill
> P.S. I stopped believing in cultural relativism too. Here's one
> reason: http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/07/06/pakistan.rape/
>
> Here's another: http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/2002/nigeria08202002.html
>
> Screw it. Better a culture that produces McDonald's and Barney--and
> wants everyone to consume them--than either of those.
Ugh. One of my very rare appearances here and it's completely off-topic.
Oh well...
Several points on the Pakistan rape thing.
1) Using a story from CNN of all places as backup for your point doesn't
earn you any... uh... points. CNN are not the most unbiased of reporting
agencies. For example, look at this line: "Police reportedly took more
than a week to even register a case...", which translated means "We can't
be bothered to get the facts so we'll run with hearsay."
2) Note that the incident caused widespread outrage in Pakistan. Pakistan
is not a culture which condones this sort of punishment.
3) Gang rapes happen in America too.
4) It's entirely arguable that male rape is a de-facto form of punishment
in the USA. If you're a white, middle-class male in prison, then it's
pretty certain what's likely to happen to you. This is caused mostly by
Inaction, apathy and the general attitude of "That's what they deserve."
Now, the amnesty international report. I don't have much to say about
this, but take a look at amnesty international's reports on the USA.
And finally, a few points on globalisation. McDonald's may have once been
American, but that's not what globalisation does. McDonalds is a
corporation and whilst they operate from the USA, they are multi-
national. Globalisation doesn't mean that America exports its culture, it
means that the corporations transcend America. It's America's problem
too. And remember, the USA doesn't just export sub-par burgers and purple
dinosaurs, it exports weaponry, dubious economic policy packages and, on
a fairly regular basis, pointless wars and puppet dictators.
In any case, human rights arose in developed nations only when the middle
classes did. Liberalism is a fundamentally middle class thing with roots
in the 17th century, but serious adoption of these ideas only occurred
after the industrial revolution when large numbers of the new rich came
together in the cities. This culminated in the constitution of the USA,
signed in 1787.
Underdeveloped nations were the key to the industrial revolution. Raw
materials came from less developed lands, were shipped to the industries
in the West and then some of the manufactured goods were shipped back and
sold. This put most local hand manufacture out of business. It was this
chain of exploitation that allowed Europe and the USA to develop.
Development only occurs through exploitation. The undeveloped nations
have never had anyone to exploit, hence they're in a state of permanent
catch-up with developed nations who do their utmost to prevent them ever
reaching equality. Liberalism occurs only in the right economic
situations and for the most part, those nations who have experienced
these economic situations are loath to allow other nations to.
And that concludes my rant; sorry I took the bait. We now return you to
your scheduled IF discussion.
(and let's please not clutter raif with this off-topicness; if you want
to respond, email is probably the best option)
--
James Mitchelhill
Gunther Schmidl
[blah]
:: So you find postmodernism lacking. How original.
[blah]
*yawn*
*plonk*
-- Gunther
Petter Sjölund
wrote:
> P.S. I stopped believing in cultural relativism too. Here's one
> reason: http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/07/06/pakistan.rape/
I don't really think believing in (my favorite brand of) cultural
relativism would prevent you from preferring your own culture to others.
It would only force you to admit that you have no objective, universal,
philosophically rock-solid reason to do so.
Petter
Nikos Chantziaras
> P.S. I stopped believing in cultural relativism too. Here's
> one reason:
> http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/07/06/pakistan.rape/
>
> Here's another:
> http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/2002/nigeria08202002.html
>
> Screw it. Better a culture that produces McDonald's and
> Barney--and wants everyone to consume them--than
> either of those.
Even the "McDonald's" and "Barney" culture (like most cultures on this
earth) did things like this. It's human nature, I'm afraid.
-- Niko
Isaac Deutscher
> >In article <vrh99.2790$e5.4...@newsb.telia.net>,
> >Isaac Deutscher <isaac_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Screw it. Better a culture that produces McDonald's and Barney--and
> >>> wants everyone to consume them--than either of those.
> >>Are you saying that gang rape is a typically Islamic phenomenon?
>
> Oddly, no.
>
> I never said, or implied, anything of the sort.
I'm no longer a Graduate Student and I'm happy about it.
Monkey Island
Postmodernism is bad.
Bad people in Pakistan gang-raped a girl.
Bad people in Nigeria are going to stone an innocent woman.
McDonald's is good.
My culture is better than their culture.
The only thing, out of your incoherent lamentations, that made any sense to
me was xenophobia. I'm sorry if I diagnosed your affliction incorrectly.
> It appears to be a Pakistani tribal phenomenon. At least, from CNN and
> other such dubious sources.
>
> Thanks for putting words into my mouth, though. Interesting that you
> assumed that what I said was an attack on Islam; perhaps you'd like to
> tell us some of your other assumptions? It's also interesting that you
> impugned the sources I quoted without actually saying anything about
> their veracity; are you claiming that a girl was not, in fact, sentenced
> to gang-rape because of inappopriate social conduct on the part of her
> brother in Pakistan? Are you claiming that Amina Lawal was not
> sentenced to death by stoning in Nigeria for bearing a child out of
> wedlock?
No, I'm not.
> And hey, on an unrelated note, how do you feel about Leni Riefenstahl's
> 100th birthday, which today is?
Get down from your high horse and get a life.
The irony of this is that I agree with you on most things. I find
postmodernism pompous and insipid. I don't like gang-rapes. I don't approve
of stoning women. I have nothing against McDonald's. It's your
self-conceited way of spewing out moral platitudes and trivial truths,
combined with your small-town xenophobia, that jerks my chain.
Nulldogma
Aren't you that guy who bragged about "constantly masturbating in a
drooling stupor"? Maybe it's true that lewdness weakens the mind?
Isaac Deutscher
> Isaac Deutscher <isaac_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> : Adam Thornton
>
> :> While wandering around the net, I found this:
> :>
> :> http://www.scummbar.com/resources/articles/read.php?in=13
> :>
> :> Wow.
> :>
> :> I find it terrifying that I was once in real danger of becoming one of
> :> these.
>
> : Bitterness is so unatractive.
>
> :> Sheesh. It's a *game*. Sure, by making money for LucasArts it's
> :> reinforcing the Horrible Hegemenony of The West and Forcing McDonald's
> :> Down Indigenous Cultures' Throats.
> :>
> :> But, geez, lighten up, eh? Since when is a video game supposed to
> :> provide a force to challenge the Evil Forces Of Hegemony?
> :>
> :> Adam
>
> : So you find postmodernism lacking. How original.
>
> Would it be somehow more original if he found it not lacking?
In a newsgroup dominated by pseudo-intellectuals, who seem to have a grudge
against the "academic establishment", it would require a minimal ammount of
courage and originality to defend postmodernism.
> Not
> where I have studied.
Good for you.
> Have you read the article? I did. The author is too inexperienced in
> the game of hip literary and philosophical writing to be able to
> totally obscure that what he is writing is composed of (a) truisms and
> (b) totally bizarre statements that I doubt anybody could explain.
>
> In addition, its an indictment of self-emasculation of academic
> radicalism. Here's a good example, from the essay: `Monkey Island
> satirises conservative ideologies but rarely goes beyond that into
> anything that is likely to lead to a change in those ideologies.'
> Really. But by dissecting and deconstructing the game, the author has
> no doubt played his part in the dismantling of western, hegemonic,
> capitalist, ... (insert oppressions-of-the-month) ideology.
>
> I even agree with the sort of criticisms that these articles tend to
> make, generally. This is why I find these sort of articles so
> obnoxious. Congratulations on adding yet another postmodern critique
> of yet another work of fiction. The world is now just that much closer
> to total emancipation. Oh, wait; no, it's not. You, however, are much
> closer to a degree. Congratulations.
Congratulations on having proven the obvious. Now that you have dismantled a
third-rate postmodernist essay we can all breathe out.
> (If the author of this essay is reading this, please understand
> that I mean you no particular disrespect. I place much more blame
> on Lyotard than I do you. :)
You just dragged the poor guys essay through the mud. But I guess there are
no bad feelings that a smiley won't heal.
> PS: Is your name really Isaac Deutscher, or are you just a huge fan of
> Trotskyist historians?
No, the fact that Trotsky's biographer is my namesake is pure coincidence.
But I am one of the Elders of Zion. You see, it pays off to see hidden
meaning where there is no meaning. Maybe postmodernism isn't so bad after
all?
Aris Katsaris
"Isaac Deutscher" <isaac_d...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JbB99.5938$HY3.1...@newsc.telia.net...
> Adam Thornton
>
> > >In article <vrh99.2790$e5.4...@newsb.telia.net>,
> > >Isaac Deutscher <isaac_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> Screw it. Better a culture that produces McDonald's and Barney--and
> > >>> wants everyone to consume them--than either of those.
> > >>Are you saying that gang rape is a typically Islamic phenomenon?
> >
> > Oddly, no.
> >
> > I never said, or implied, anything of the sort.
>
> I'm no longer a Graduate Student and I'm happy about it.
> Monkey Island
> Postmodernism is bad.
> Bad people in Pakistan gang-raped a girl.
> Bad people in Nigeria are going to stone an innocent woman.
> McDonald's is good.
> My culture is better than their culture.
>
> The only thing, out of your incoherent lamentations, that made any sense to
> me was xenophobia. I'm sorry if I diagnosed your affliction incorrectly.
I never saw any trace of xenophobia in Adam's words. "My culture is
better than their culture" doesn't necessarily have to do with xenophobia
which is fear and hatred towards all strangers.
I also think that my culture is better than the the culture of Aztecs who
sacrificed people to their gods. I also think that current american culture
is better than the culture the American South had before the civil war.
> > And hey, on an unrelated note, how do you feel about Leni Riefenstahl's
> > 100th birthday, which today is?
>
> Get down from your high horse and get a life.
>
> The irony of this is that I agree with you on most things. I find
> postmodernism pompous and insipid. I don't like gang-rapes. I don't approve
> of stoning women. I have nothing against McDonald's. It's your
> self-conceited way of spewing out moral platitudes and trivial truths,
> combined with your small-town xenophobia, that jerks my chain.
Still don't see any xenophobia.
Aris Katsaris
Carl Muckenhoupt
better, I might think you were dismissing games as incapable of conveying
any meaning worth discussing.
Erik George Hetzner
:> Would it be somehow more original if he found it not lacking?
: In a newsgroup dominated by pseudo-intellectuals, who seem to have a grudge
: against the "academic establishment", it would require a minimal ammount of
: courage and originality to defend postmodernism.
Any `grudge' that seems to be held here against the academic establishment is
probably only the sort that is held by many of those close to it.
:> Not
:> where I have studied.
: Good for you.
Thank you.
: Congratulations on having proven the obvious. Now that you have dismantled a
: third-rate postmodernist essay we can all breathe out.
I never called it third rate; I did call the author inexperienced.
:> (If the author of this essay is reading this, please understand
:> that I mean you no particular disrespect. I place much more blame
:> on Lyotard than I do you. :)
: You just dragged the poor guys essay through the mud. But I guess there are
: no bad feelings that a smiley won't heal.
If I critiqued it harshly, it's because I agree with a lot of the
intentions of the author, and I think that somebody who has the sort
of intentions that he has could be doing far more useful work that
critiquing Escape from Monkey Island in the way that he has done it.
Again, I never called it third rate.
:> PS: Is your name really Isaac Deutscher, or are you just a huge fan of
:> Trotskyist historians?
: No, the fact that Trotsky's biographer is my namesake is pure coincidence.
: But I am one of the Elders of Zion. You see, it pays off to see hidden
: meaning where there is no meaning. Maybe postmodernism isn't so bad after
: all?
I can see now that it might read as though I was making some sort of
subtle insinuation. I wasn't.
Erik
Dan Shiovitz
Erik George Hetzner <e...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>Isaac Deutscher <isaac_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[..]
>: No, the fact that Trotsky's biographer is my namesake is pure coincidence.
>: But I am one of the Elders of Zion. You see, it pays off to see hidden
>: meaning where there is no meaning. Maybe postmodernism isn't so bad after
>: all?
>
>I can see now that it might read as though I was making some sort of
>subtle insinuation. I wasn't.
I should point out that "Isaac Deutscher" is almost certainly the same
guy as Jacek Pudlo/Magnus Prickus/etc and therefore is not really
worth taking notice of, let alone apologizing to.
>Erik
--
Dan Shiovitz :: d...@cs.wisc.edu :: http://www.drizzle.com/~dans
"He settled down to dictate a letter to the Consolidated Nailfile and
Eyebrow Tweezer Corporation of Scranton, Pa., which would make them
realize that life is stern and earnest and Nailfile and Eyebrow Tweezer
Corporations are not put in this world for pleasure alone." -PGW
LizM7
> P.S. I stopped believing in cultural relativism too. Here's one
> reason: http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/07/06/pakistan.rape/
>
> Here's another: http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/2002/nigeria08202002.html
>
> Screw it. Better a culture that produces McDonald's and Barney--and
> wants everyone to consume them--than either of those.
But a culture which produces this?:
http://www.aclu.org/news/2002/n041802a.html (Note that this isn't an
isolated event -- this is an *everyday* occurance in most prisons.)
More info:
http://www.aclu.org/issues/prisons/prisonrape_facts.html
- Liz
Daryl McCullough
>
>While wandering around the net, I found this:
>
>http://www.scummbar.com/resources/articles/read.php?in=13
>
>Wow.
>
>I find it terrifying that I was once in real danger of becoming one of
>these.
>
>Sheesh. It's a *game*. Sure, by making money for LucasArts it's
>reinforcing the Horrible Hegemenony of The West and Forcing McDonald's
>Down Indigenous Cultures' Throats.
>
>But, geez, lighten up, eh? Since when is a video game supposed to
>provide a force to challenge the Evil Forces Of Hegemony?
Maybe the author was taking the game too seriously, or maybe
you are taking the essay too seriously. Or maybe I'm taking
your post too seriously?
Nah...
--
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY
Bruce Humphrey
Now the first 'evil' culture has done this:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/31/pakistan.gang.rape/index.html
A (real) judge has sentenced the 6 men from the pakistani news to death.
2 of them from the council of elders.
EVERYWHERE you can find this kind of facts, sadly there is a part of
humanity that is rotten, but, unlike an apple, it is not concentrated in
one part, but spread around everywhere.