True artist or not?
Iluvbirdys
Drawing and being creative are things that have interested me since I can
remember. But sometimes I wonder where I stand. I hardly know much about art
history or famous artists.. I'm not even really interested in that, yet I feel
like I'm supposed to be somehow. I love to draw but for some reason, when I
create, there always has to be a highly significant meaning behind it, but yet
in drawing, I just don't "get" it, I guess. If you write a poem, for example,
the words are right there for you, that split second you think of them. You
maybe have to improve them later on, but that's all. But with, say, creating a
painting that may take months to finish, how could you possibly hold onto that
one idea for that long? I don't know, I guess I'm looking at everything the
wrong way. In a way, I feel like creating art really isn't doing anything
productive at all.. it's not going to change the world as much as something
else can, at least in my eyes. I know I'll get a lot of negative criticism for
saying that.. I just don't feel like I'm doing society much of any good except
for other artists by creating art, unless I were to be an art therapist or
something. With all these issues, however, I truly do feel I am an artist at
heart. Am I wrong to be feeling the way I do?
Pan T. Waste
says...
>In a way, I feel like creating art really isn't doing anything
>productive at all.. it's not going to change the world as much as something
>else can, at least in my eyes.
Everyone has a need to be appreciated! EVERYONE!
Some might deny that's true, but they only kid themselves.
So we do things to attract attention to ourselves,
whether it's striving to be CEO of a corporation,
sail around the world solo, beat our friend in a
friendly game of tennis, or be praised for painting
a pretty picture. Remember when mommy proudly pinned
your kindergarten art work to the refrigerator door?
Those who choose to attempt making a living by
being productive with their hands find great satisfaction
in having others appreciate their handiwork - regardless
of what form that may take. People who work for another
boss expect to be recognized by pay raises when they
perform well for that boss. That's how the
world works.
Then there are those of us who simply need to be
doing something with our hands - or minds - that is
totally selfish and self-gratifying. Having the
praise and approval of others is secondary. We call
ourselves "hobbyists."
whirred up
>> If you write a poem, for example,
>the words are right there for you, that split second you think of them. You
>maybe have to improve them later on, but that's all. But with, say, creating a
>painting that may take months to finish, how could you possibly hold onto that
>one idea for that long?>>
>>I feel like creating art really isn't doing anything
>productive at all.. it's not going to change the world as much as something
>else can, at least in my eyes. I know I'll get a lot of negative criticism for
>I just don't feel like I'm doing society much of any good except
>for other artists by creating art,
> Am I wrong to be feeling the way I do?
A poem is quickly done, a novel is not. How do writers possibly hold
onto one idea for the months that it takes to produce one? They manage
obviously. Painters learn also.
Creating art is different from decoration. Decoration isn't all that
productive in the sense that you are talking about. Art is the
creation production or expression of ideas of more than ordinary
significance. By it's nature it should be of some value.
Want to change the world?
Build a beautiful garden.
Your feelings are your own, but I don't happen to share them.
Dilettante
I love to draw but for some reason, when I
> create, there always has to be a highly significant meaning behind it, but yet
> in drawing, I just don't "get" it, I guess.
the issue of significant is defined relative to the internal dynamics
and history of the art form in question. whether a piece is signicant
in the art world depends to a certain extent on the theory behind it.
If you write a poem, for example,
> the words are right there for you, that split second you think of them. You
> maybe have to improve them later on, but that's all.
Not really-- sometimes the poem can undergo tremendous changes and
additions with time and work.
But with, say, creating a
> painting that may take months to finish, how could you possibly hold onto that
> one idea for that long?
you can retain the original feeling for as long as you want or until
you finally milk every drop of interest from it. The expression of
either visual or literary ideas can be deepened with time, making the
artwork better.
I don't know, I guess I'm looking at everything the
> wrong way. In a way, I feel like creating art really isn't doing anything
> productive at all.. it's not going to change the world as much as something
> else can, at least in my eyes.
If you want to make a contribution to the world, it sounds like art
will not satisfy this urge for you.
Dilettante
Pan T. Waste
>Want to change the world?
>Build a beautiful garden.
I happen to have a beautiful garden. It's
another one of my hobbies! And yes, I get
complimented on my efforts all the time so
there is also gratification in knowing
others take pleasure from my efforts.
>Your feelings are your own, but I don't happen to share them.
That's your problem, isn't it? I'm one
of the most self-satisfied people you're
ever likely to meet!
Paul Mesken
wrote:
>Everyone has a need to be appreciated! EVERYONE!
It's nice to be appreciated but it's better to be feared ;-)
Dilettante
I'm one
> of the most self-satisfied people you're
> ever likely to meet!
How true that is, but I am grateful at how unlikely it is we shall ever meet.
Dilettante
Pan T. Waste
says...
>How true that is, but I am grateful at how unlikely it is we shall ever meet.
>
>Dilettante
I suspect I'd run for cover the minute I saw you coming!
Dr. Slick
What's up Paul? Glad to see you typing again...
"Do not fear your opponents, respect them."
Slick
Dr. Slick
> one idea for that long? I don't know, I guess I'm looking at everything the
> wrong way. In a way, I feel like creating art really isn't doing anything
> productive at all.. it's not going to change the world as much as something
> else can, at least in my eyes. I know I'll get a lot of negative criticism for
> saying that.. I just don't feel like I'm doing society much of any good except
> for other artists by creating art, unless I were to be an art therapist or
> something. With all these issues, however, I truly do feel I am an artist at
> heart. Am I wrong to be feeling the way I do?
No, because if everyone was a rock star and a fine artist, we would
all starve very quickly!
Not too much room at the top of the art world, but i'm sure you
have other talents.
And you know, engineering can be an art too.
Slick
Twilight2112
all starve very quickly!
Not too much room at the top of the art world, but i'm sure you
have other talents.
And you know, engineering can be an art too.>>
I definitely would not be interesting in a career of engineering.. so you're
basically telling me to give up?
Pan T. Waste
says...
>I definitely would not be interesting in a career of engineering.. so you're
>basically telling me to give up?
You have only yourself to answer to in that
regard, but take faith in the fact that you
cannot avoid "growing up." This latest phase
WILL pass.
Twilight2112
>basically telling me to give up?
You have only yourself to answer to in that
regard, but take faith in the fact that you
cannot avoid "growing up." This latest phase
WILL pass.>">I definitely would not be interesting in a career of engineering..
so you're
>basically telling me to give up?
You have only yourself to answer to in that
regard, but take faith in the fact that you
cannot avoid "growing up." This latest phase
WILL pass.>>
I really don't consider this a phase, since it's been something I've been
interested in since as long as I can remember. I can't help feeling sometimes
like people like to prey on other's doubts, like what I just said, just to hope
that this WILL really pass, like you said, so that maybe the rest of you will
have a better chance at success, or at least to make you feel better about
yourselves. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Dr. Slick
>
> And you know, engineering can be an art too.>>
>
> I definitely would not be interesting in a career of engineering.. so you're
> basically telling me to give up?
No way! Pursue the arts if you have the talent and the drive and
the business skills, you will need them.
Just be open to other options, and other skills you may have. Not
that you should be a jack of all trades, and master of none. But it
would be nice to
have 2 or 3 specialty skills and not just one.
If you give up on the advice of someone on the net, then you
weren't
meant to succeed in that field anyways.
Slick
Dilettante
You would never see me coming because I would have caught a taxi way before that.
D
Andrew Werby
"Iluvbirdys" <iluvb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040116041637...@mb-m04.aol.com...
> Hi there,
>
> Drawing and being creative are things that have interested me since I can
> remember. But sometimes I wonder where I stand. I hardly know much about
art
> history or famous artists..
[You could learn about them...]
I'm not even really interested in that, yet I feel
> like I'm supposed to be somehow.
[Well, forget it, then.]
I love to draw but for some reason, when I
> create, there always has to be a highly significant meaning behind it, but
yet
> in drawing, I just don't "get" it, I guess. If you write a poem, for
example,
> the words are right there for you, that split second you think of them.
You
> maybe have to improve them later on, but that's all. But with, say,
creating a
> painting that may take months to finish, how could you possibly hold onto
that
> one idea for that long?
[People do.]
I don't know, I guess I'm looking at everything the
> wrong way. In a way, I feel like creating art really isn't doing anything
> productive at all..
[I suppose it depends on what you're producing.]
it's not going to change the world as much as something
> else can, at least in my eyes.
[What particular thing in the world do you think you can change, then? Why
don't you go do it, instead of drawing pictures?]
I know I'll get a lot of negative criticism for
> saying that.. I just don't feel like I'm doing society much of any good
except
> for other artists by creating art, unless I were to be an art therapist or
> something.
[How is your art helping other artists, exactly?]
With all these issues, however, I truly do feel I am an artist at
> heart.
[Why?]
Am I wrong to be feeling the way I do?
[Since you're not interested in art (that's not yours), you don't value art
(even your own), and your priorities seem to be more about social
engineering than artistic goals, it's hard to picture you primarily as an
artist. I wouldn't say it's "wrong" of you to feel that way, but perhaps
you're using the word "artist" as a stand-in for another concept. Maybe
"free spirit" would better describe what you're identifying with in the
artistic lifestyle? ]
Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com
keith o'connor
or her work says: "live god dam you live".
--
take care: Keith
The eye should not be lead where there is nothing to see.
Robert Henri - The Art Spirit
"Iluvbirdys" <iluvb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040116041637...@mb-m04.aol.com...
Iluvbirdys
[Since you're not interested in art (that's not yours), you don't value art
(even your own), and your priorities seem to be more about social
engineering than artistic goals, it's hard to picture you primarily as an
artist. I wouldn't say it's "wrong" of you to feel that way, but perhaps
you're using the word "artist" as a stand-in for another concept. Maybe
"free spirit" would better describe what you're identifying with in the
artistic lifestyle? ]
Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com
>>
Eh, I guess I bring on the negativity (not that you're being negative) towards
myself. Although I do consider myself a free spirit also, when I say I'm an
artist at heart I mean a visual artist.. it's not that I don't value my own
art, it's just that, I guess drawing and painting is one of my biggest loves,
but also, I feel like I have to make some huge mark on the world, but I don't
know if I can make that imprint by being the artist.. that's basically what I
meant.
Andrew Werby
[Drawing and painting makes a small mark on the world, but a mark
nonetheless. But if you're always putting yourself down while you're doing
it for not accomplishing some greater social good, then you're half-beaten
at the start. If you're willing to work at something just because you love
doing it, that may be considered self-indulgent, but if you're not going to
indulge yourself, who will? Maybe it will come to something, maybe it won't,
but at least you'll have enjoyed yourself in the meantime (if you haven't
beat yourself up too badly for letting yourself do it.)
If making an impact on the world is your primary goal, visual art is not
the most promising means to that end. Most people who are interested in art
these days are artists themselves, and like you, primarily concerned with
their own work. If your ideas are really good, and your execution of them
flawless (or at least competent), and you've managed to get some exposure
for it, you might influence some other artists. That's about as good as it
gets, as far as impact is concerned.
You have to decide what sort of imprint you want to leave. If you're
measuring this in lives saved, forget about painting; go to medical school,
and develop a vaccine for AIDS or a cure for cancer. If you become a great
film comedian, you might bring smiles to millions. Or just concentrate on
getting rich, so you can become a philanthropist. In general, though, people
succeed best at the things they are naturally suited for, and enjoy doing
most. You have to decide for yourself what these might be for you, and what
good (or harm) your exercise of these abilities and proclivities might do
for the rest of the world.]
Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com
Iluvbirdys
Thanks for the insight and giving the time to respond.
:)
Dee Randall
"Pan T. Waste" <3...@dontemailme.com> wrote in message
news:4007...@news.zianet.com...
However, I would not define his feelings or thoughts about his art (as
expressed ) that would qualify him as a hobbyist. I would consider him an
artist, whether he produced one drawing every 5 years or had a tremendous
output.
One doesn't go 'round saying, "I'm a hobbyist."
On the other hand, if one is modest, one does have a hard time saying, "I'm
an artist."
Dee
Dilettante
> Then there are those of us who simply need to be
> doing something with our hands - ...
that is exactly why I am glad you are not using web cam.
Dilettante
Rhoda Rhunner
says...
A Slick rejoinder...or at that level anyway...
Provisorium
artist is something similar to madness (do you say insanity? im not shure in
the terms). a lot of the greatest artists and philosophers ended with madness.
and even the ability to make stories happen in your head, (just writing down a
story that happened in your mind more lively than a dream) - isn't that similar
to a mild schizophrenia? i knew about 2 authors being in contiuous clinical
care for being mad, but writing something like real modern poetry - so are they
artists? i mean, you cannot become an artist by decision. and maybe producing
artwork of any kind might harm, or lets say , change you?