Learning to paint like Van Gogh
Michael
haven't found any books that teach this style. I have a book with many of
his paintings, but when I study them I'm not sure how he painted them.
Particularly in regards to layering, such as did he let his layers dry or
did he paint "alla prima"? Did he use painting knives or just brushes? How
can I get my paint to have the same texture as his? Etc.
Michael
sketchdude
at a few of his originals.
His style was so personal that you won't find much methodology
associated with it. I am pretty sure he used a knife as well as a
brush.
In general, I would say get yourself some chinese brushes and ink, and
make a study of his drawings. From what I've seen of his paintings,
his style was primarily intuitive, and he responded differently with
paint depending on his mood, the weather, the colors and probably
whatever supplies he had available.
But a good deal of his painting textures were derived from his
drawings- so start with those.
sketchdude
Flobby Bischer
instances.. You can get the same texture by using thicker paint. If you
can get to a place to view a real Van Gogh that will help you see what he
was doing with the paint. Repros are misleading.
"Michael" <please_do...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Michael
> instances.. You can get the same texture by using thicker paint. If you
> can get to a place to view a real Van Gogh that will help you see what he
> was doing with the paint. Repros are misleading.
I live in Paris and have been to the Musée d'Orsay several times. I get up
close to them and just stare at them for long periods of time. I look at
every brush stroke. But it's hard for me to see how he lays the paint down
like that. He has a very unique style and I haven't seen anybody teaching
that style, nor have I seen books on it.
Michael
keith o'connor
> drawings- so start with those.
>
the essence.
--
take care: Keith
The eye should not be lead where there is nothing to see.
Robert Henri - The Art Spirit
"sketchdude" <now...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
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Dik F. Liu
<please_do...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>I live in Paris and have been to the Musée d'Orsay several times. I get up
close to them and just stare at them for long periods of time. I look at every
brush stroke. But it's hard for me to see how he lays the paint down like
that. He has a very unique style and I haven't seen anybody teaching that
style, nor have I seen books on it.<
Years ago, I copied a couple of Van Goghs. From what I can tell, he painted
with mostly round or filbert brushes. Very few flats. His color mixtures seldom
involved more than three pigments - which explains how he kept his colors so
clean, and his color changes so linear. There were no thalos - just cobalt,
ultramarine, and viridian. He wrote to his brother Theo about how much he liked
a color called malachite. This green pigment was made from copper and is not
widely available today. (Old Hollands sell it for an arm and a leg.)
Van Gogh painted on a creamy white canvas. It was most assuredly oil primed.
But I am unsure of the pigments - perhaps a mixture of mostly lead white with a
tad of genuine Naples yellow?
Callen wrote about Van Gogh's techniques in Techniques of the Impressionists.
But the section on Van Gogh is skimpy and not very helpful. If you can find an
old paperback called Van Gogh in Perspective, Gauguin wrote about his
observations on being Van Gogh's studiomate. I don't know how trustworthy was
Gauguin's observations since he claimed to have influenced Van Gogh. I think it
was the other way around.
Dik
keith o'connor
--
take care: Keith
The eye should not be lead where there is nothing to see.
Robert Henri - The Art Spirit
"Dik F. Liu" <dik...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030922204248...@mb-m11.aol.com...
Michael
> > drawings- so start with those.
> >
> You're right but I doubt if he understands you. He wants the appearance
not
> the essence.
How do you know what I want and don't want?
The drawing suggestion is a good one. My Van Gogh book has just a few of
his drawings, and I've found more on the web. It's much easier to copy a
drawing than a painting so this is a good suggestion.
Pepe le Pew
please_do...@hotmail.com says...
>The drawing suggestion is a good one. My Van Gogh book has just a few of
>his drawings, and I've found more on the web. It's much easier to copy a
>drawing than a painting so this is a good suggestion.
If you really are interested in copying his
paintings, the best way to start is by finding
either the real thing in a museum that allows
you to copy "in situ" - or - find a reproduction
that shows enough detail that you can distinguish
the brush strokes. Being able to see the surface
texture of a Van Gogh painting is essential to
correct copying, IMO...
Michael
> >his drawings, and I've found more on the web. It's much easier to copy a
> >drawing than a painting so this is a good suggestion.
>
> If you really are interested in copying his
> paintings, the best way to start is by finding
> either the real thing in a museum that allows
> you to copy "in situ" - or - find a reproduction
> that shows enough detail that you can distinguish
> the brush strokes. Being able to see the surface
> texture of a Van Gogh painting is essential to
> correct copying, IMO...
I totally agree with you, but for the advanced stages. If I were to attempt
it now I'd be laughed at big time. I think it's best to start with some
drawings, then try some paintings at home using the largest reproductions
possible. After that it should be attempted in person. I've never seen
anyone copying a painting in the musée d'Orsay so I don't know if it's
allowed. I've only seen it done a few times in the Louvre. I'll ask next
time I'm there.
I also saw a good reproduction in a gallery. I was thinking about
contacting the artist to see if they would be interested in giving a lesson.
I'm going to write down the name of the artist the next time I'm there. It
was a very good reproduction, worse case is I'd buy it (I think it was
around $450) and take my time to work on copying it at home. Kind of
expensive so it's a last resort. In the US there is a chain of art stores
that sell reproductions, they're OK quality and I believe they cost around
$100. Next time I go back to the US I think I'll pick up one.
Michael
DRB
Cahier Vincent 3: A Closer Look: Technical and Art-Historical Studies on
Works by Van Gogh and Gauguin
It's a bit technical, but does go into some good detail about the paints
and canvases that Vincent used. If memory serves he sometimes used a wax
resin in his oil paints which may have given a thicker texture.
In any event, the book is worth looking for.
Working with the drawings is a good idea--especially Vincent's drawings of
hands, feet, torsos, etc.
David
www.vangoghgallery.com
________________________________________________
Michael
book. I found it on Amazon.com so I have the ISBN but I can't find anyone
selling it, including ebay. If you know of any sources for this book please
let me know. I'm going to ask my local bookstore if they can special order
it but I doubt it since it's out of print.
"DRB" <yes...@maybe.com> wrote in message
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DRB
The book is out of print, but I know that the VGM shop carries a number of
out of print books. They might have a few kicking around.
_______________________________________________
Michael
engines and found a copy in a used bookshop in Amsterdam. I've emailed them
to confirm that they have it. Thanks a lot for telling me about this book I
appreciate it. I went to Musée d'Orsay again yesterday. Every time I go I
think I understand his technique just a little better.
Michael
"DRB" <yes...@maybe.com> wrote in message
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Jeff Wilson
totally with your assumptions about how Van Gogh painted.
If we are talking about his painting made just before he shot himself,
they seem to me to be very structured and carefully though out. It
appeared to me that in many paintings, before he laid down those strong
vibrant brush strokes, Van Gogh did a very careful under painting. I
believe that he tinted his ground, then painted a detailed version using
smooth, almost blended thin brushwork. They he laid in his heavy paint
using a stiff brush. Look carefully at the church or Dr Gaget or his
last self portrait and you will see this. I'm no expert but, I didn't
get the impression that he used a knife.
I tried my hand at copying one of his paintings. Working out the brush
strokes was fascinating. Of course, it won't fool anyone but its one of
my favorite paintings.
--
Jeff Wilson
jr92***wil...@copper.net
"And now these three remain; faith, hope and love.
But the greatest of these is love."
...... Seek harmony and balance in the mountains.
Find harmony and balance within.....
DRB
next time you're at the d'Orsay. It's that painting that got me interested
in Van Gogh in the first place and sent me on a path to become a Van Gogh
specialist.
David
__________________________________________________________
"Michael" <please_do...@hotmail.com> wrote in
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Michael
> totally with your assumptions about how Van Gogh painted.
>
> If we are talking about his painting made just before he shot himself,
> they seem to me to be very structured and carefully though out. It
> appeared to me that in many paintings, before he laid down those strong
> vibrant brush strokes, Van Gogh did a very careful under painting. I
> believe that he tinted his ground, then painted a detailed version using
> smooth, almost blended thin brushwork. They he laid in his heavy paint
> using a stiff brush. Look carefully at the church or Dr Gaget or his
> last self portrait and you will see this. I'm no expert but, I didn't
> get the impression that he used a knife.
Several people have told me that he did not use underpaintings. But like
you, after studying them in the Musée d'Orsay several times, I really think
he did.
One question I have for you: Do you think he painted everything in one
sitting or did he paint in layers, letting each layer dry? I've heard that
he did it all in one sitting but I don't see how he could put thick paint
over wet thick paint without it blending more on the canvas.
> I tried my hand at copying one of his paintings. Working out the brush
> strokes was fascinating. Of course, it won't fool anyone but its one of
> my favorite paintings.
I'm trying as well. I'm just a beginner in oil painting so I'm learning a
lot on the way. Since I really love Van Gogh, I am really enjoying it!
Michael
Michael
> next time you're at the d'Orsay. It's that painting that got me
interested
> in Van Gogh in the first place and sent me on a path to become a Van Gogh
> specialist.
Perhaps you'd know if Van Gogh painted his paintings all in one sitting or
if he painted in layers, letting each layer dry before painting the next??
Thanks
Michael
PS: I like Thatched Cottages at Cordeville as well, and next time I'm there
(probably next week) I'll tell it you said "hi". The museum is free for
unemployed, which is great because we have more time on our hands. So often
when I have an hour to kill I'll go and study the Van Goghs. Every time I
go I notice new and different stuff.
Semi Anne
please_do...@hotmail.com says...
>Several people have told me that he did not use underpaintings.
When I look at his "preliminary" drawings I see
bold strokes that seem to be emulating what his
paint strokes will do later. If by underpainting
you mean a preliminary sketch on canvas using dilute
oil paint, I'd be willing to bet he did that before
beginning to lay in the thick color strokes. I say
that only because it would be consistent with his
working things out in black and white sketching
before committing to the painting.
>I don't see how he could put thick paint
>over wet thick paint without it blending more on the canvas.
Wet into wet paint won't "blend" on its own.
The artist would have to cause it to blend by
brushing it around, which is usually the beginner's
problem and cause of "muddied" colors. An experienced
artist has no problem laying down paint taken from
the palette without having it mix with previous layers.
>Since I really love Van Gogh, I am really enjoying it!
I copied Van Gogh a time or two, but began my
copies by first painting a B&W version, then doing
another painting of the same thing in color. It
was at a time when I too was going through learning
stages. And yeah...it was fun. I find most of Van
Gogh's paintings to be great visual "fun."
Jeff Wilson
least part of the time Van Gogh spent a lot of time on a painting over
several days. In the letter he was complaining that the sunflowers he
was painting wilted after a short while so he had to continue on with
fresh ones the next day.
While Van Gogh was a prodigious painter in his last period, he may have
been working on several paintings at the same time. It seem to me that
his painting in the d'Orsay indicated not only alla prima painting but
several session paintings where he let things dry before applying the
next layer.
BTW, have you been to the Rodin Museum? He had a collection of
impressionists that include a couple of Van Gogh's I wasn't aware of.
--
Jeff Wilson
Semi Anne
>BTW, have you been to the Rodin Museum?
Which one?
One of the most memorable museum experiences for
me, who has been to many of the major museums
of the world, was a visit to Maryhill in the
state of Washington, USA. Not only does it have
one of the most complete collections of Rodin's
sculptures, it has nearby a replica of Stonehenge!
And there is no way I'm going to be able to put
into words the experience of visiting this site
with it's panoramic view from about 1,000 ft
above the Columbia River gorge that defines the
border between the states of Oregon and Washington.
It's an experience that must me experienced to
be understood. This web site does a good job of
presenting the museum and it's assets:
http://www.maryhillmuseum.org/about.htm
In 1907 Sam Hill, a wealthy entrepreneur bought 6,000 acres of land overlooking
the Columbia River with the intention of establishing a Quaker agricultural
community. He chose the bluff which Maryhill Museum now occupies as the site
for his own home, and in 1914 construction of his poured concrete mansion
began. He named both his home and his land company Maryhill after his daughter,
Mary.
Among Hill's many personal friends, three exceptional women played key roles in
the next chapter of Maryhill's history. Loie Fuller, an acclaimed Folies
Bergere pioneer of modern dance, conceived the bold idea of creating a museum
of art out of Sam Hill's mansion. Through Loie's friendships within Parisian
art circles, Hill was able to acquire an *extensive collection of original
Auguste Rodin sculptures.*
Michael
> least part of the time Van Gogh spent a lot of time on a painting over
> several days. In the letter he was complaining that the sunflowers he
> was painting wilted after a short while so he had to continue on with
> fresh ones the next day.
>
> While Van Gogh was a prodigious painter in his last period, he may have
> been working on several paintings at the same time. It seem to me that
> his painting in the d'Orsay indicated not only alla prima painting but
> several session paintings where he let things dry before applying the
> next layer.
The more I investigate his painting technique, the more interesting and
controversial it becomes. Thanks for this information.
> BTW, have you been to the Rodin Museum? He had a collection of
> impressionists that include a couple of Van Gogh's I wasn't aware of.
I have been once, a few years ago. I did noticed a few of the paintings in
my book on Van Gogh are listed as being in the Rodin museum. I'm going to
go check them out.
Michael
DRB
> sitting or if he painted in layers, letting each layer dry before
> painting the next??
He did both. The Potato Eaters, for example, he touched up and corrected
over and over again. Whereas the later Auvers-sur-Oise works he cranked
out in a day basically--not enough time to rework them.
DRB
> paintings in my book on Van Gogh are listed as being in the Rodin
> museum. I'm going to go check them out.
My website gives a geographic breakdown of all Van Gogh paintings in public
collections around the world. So it lists all the Van Gogh paintings at
the Musée Rodin, all in Sao Paulo, all in St. Petersburg, all in Geneva,
etc., etc., etc.
See:
http://www.vangoghgallery.com/map/main.htm
David
Michael
>
> ad...@vangoghmuseumshop.com
>
> The book is out of print, but I know that the VGM shop carries a number of
> out of print books. They might have a few kicking around.
I just got a confirmation from them that they still have this book. It's 27
Euros plus 10 euros shipping. The other bookstore I found first has already
told me they can order it for the 27 Euros and their shipping is 6 euros.
So I'm going to order it from them. Thanks again for the recommendation, I
don't think I would have ever found out about this book. I'm really looking
forward to getting it.
Michael
DRB
> It's 27 Euros plus 10 euros shipping. The other bookstore I found
> first has already told me they can order it for the 27 Euros and their
> shipping is 6 euros. So I'm going to order it from them. Thanks again
> for the recommendation, I don't think I would have ever found out
> about this book. I'm really looking forward to getting it.
>
> Michael
Keep in mind that I said that the book is technical. It's written from a
conservator's view point, rather than an artist's. But it has very good
information about the paints and canvases of both Van Gogh and Gauguin.
Also x-ray data about the paintings and lots of other goodies. Very
informative. Let me know what you think!
dt
> haven't found any books that teach this style. I have a book with many of
> his paintings, but when I study them I'm not sure how he painted them.
> Particularly in regards to layering, such as did he let his layers dry or
> did he paint "alla prima"? Did he use painting knives or just brushes? How
> can I get my paint to have the same texture as his? Etc.
>
> Michael
I would recommend to go to this site and learn 'how to paint like
Monet in 30 minutes'. You don't need books. You don't need to spend
$$$$. It sFREE! You can even start a gallery in 30 days if you don't
have any paintings at all. Take a shot at this site and be amazed. You
won't believe you eyes when you finish your painting.
Dow
-------------
Paint like Monet in 30 minutes
F R E E
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/givecolor/