Former art student wonders: Should I take up art again?
~Artist~
----------
In article <MPG.1289568db...@news.concentric.net>,
wordw...@my-yahoo.com (John Frum) wrote:
>It's been 20 years or more since I last took any studio art courses
Bummer life is short to bad you got away from it all.
>in college, and I haven't really felt "artistic" very since then. Life
They say it is like athletics....creativity...use it and it grows do not and
it dies...I have heard from men artists that it goes away from them around
40.
Who knows, I have used my in full tilt now for years so I can only atest to
it growing almost annoyingly so at times.
>has sort of gotten in the way of that if you know what I mean.
Making anything is fun and I have taught many seniors art later in life.
Most were stuck in landscapes and when I pushed them they got
testy....but...most really appreaciated that I at least have solutions and
opinions....the concencus is art teachers do not have enough of an opinion.
They always want me back and to teach art all the time but I only substitute
on a very rare occasion.
>
>Is it worth bothering with at my age (45) trying to make a go of it
Make art...if you sell any great.
>as an artist? I thought I was pretty good way back then and so did my
Pretty hard but I have seen some do it but not the real big leagues.
All artists young ones think they are pretty good.
>professors, but I haven't exactly been in touch with the art world through
>the intervening years.
I doubt you were in school either.
>
>Must one be young and fresh out of college to be taken seriously, or
No, actually it takes years and years of work and persistance to make it in
the arts.
>are there options for older folks like me? Is making art just therapy
You are not dead yet sonn.e!
>for people my age?
Art business is what you make it and where you make it. Paint like hell.cat
and see where you get.
Jump in ;the pool is fun.
M
>
mesken
wrote:
>It's been 20 years or more since I last took any studio art courses
>in college, and I haven't really felt "artistic" very since then. Life
>has sort of gotten in the way of that if you know what I mean.
>
I always take a glass of whiskey and put on some music of the prodigy,
underworld or aphex twin to feel artistic enough to take on the
challenge of the "big white" in front of me :-)
>Is it worth bothering with at my age (45) trying to make a go of it
>as an artist? I thought I was pretty good way back then and so did my
>professors, but I haven't exactly been in touch with the art world through
>the intervening years.
>
Age really doesn't matter (geriatric diseases might but they won't pop
up till after 60 or 70, if at all) and I don't see why an artist
should be in touch with the art world. All that's needed to make art
is materials, skill and the desire to do so.
>Must one be young and fresh out of college to be taken seriously, or
>are there options for older folks like me? Is making art just therapy
>for people my age?
Artists get judged by their work, not by their person. There are
people in their seventies who start learning to paint, draw, etc.
They're not doing this as therapy but because they always had an
interest in acquiring these skills and never had the opportunity in
their live to do so.
Lil Ruse
wordw...@my-yahoo.com says...
>Must one be young and fresh out of college to be taken seriously, or
>are there options for older folks like me? Is making art just therapy
>for people my age?
I began my formal education in art at the age of 50.
That's FIFTY for those who don't do numerals.
It was a challenge, to say the least. I did NOT at
any time expect to come out of school and be accepted
into the job market as someone of 'normal' school
age might be. I did it for the pure self-indulgent
fun of it.
I enjoyed being with the younger-than-me crowd in
my undergraduate program and with those who were
older in my graduate years. I'd do it all again
if in the same circumstances and given the same
lifetime opportunity.
Marilyn Welch
YES!
A lot might depend on what you want to express and whether or not you feel
that it can only be expressed through the media of fine arts.
For me, it's not enough just to know how to do it, there has to be a
"why."
All art is therapy but not all art therapy is Art.
Marilyn
On 2 Nov 1999, John Frum wrote:
> It's been 20 years or more since I last took any studio art courses
> in college, and I haven't really felt "artistic" very since then. Life
> has sort of gotten in the way of that if you know what I mean.
>
> Is it worth bothering with at my age (45) trying to make a go of it
> as an artist? I thought I was pretty good way back then and so did my
> professors, but I haven't exactly been in touch with the art world through
> the intervening years.
>
Nancy
John Frum <wordw...@my-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1289568db...@news.concentric.net...
~Artist~
----------
In article <38205...@oracle.zianet.com>, do...@tryto.emailme.com (Lil Ruse)
wrote:
>In article <MPG.1289568db...@news.concentric.net>,
>wordw...@my-yahoo.com says...
>
>>Must one be young and fresh out of college to be taken seriously, or
>>are there options for older folks like me? Is making art just therapy
>>for people my age?
>
>I began my formal education in art at the age of 50.
>That's FIFTY for those who don't do numerals.
>
I am really happy I checked out early and chased my dream it is wild to see
it coming true. I would though not want to run round like I did the last
few years when I am 50 or 60 trying to break in.
I could though be contented if I started later just painting and showing
locally or regionally or in a tourist arena if that is what I painted and
when I started.
Setting shights higher at 50 is harder but if you are young and 50 and
running round is cool then do it by all means.
Shelping paintings for a show a first show kills 98 percent of the people in
the market right out of school as stats go. So shleping at 60 could be a
bit hard if you add that to all the regualar art run round stuff and
business on top of it.
Art is having three jobs.
Mattison
Kay
John Frum wrote:
(snip)
:
:Are there follies of a similar nature in the art world that a
:relative newbie should look out for? Agents that charge a fee, galleries
:that are paid by the artist up front to hang their work etc. etc.?
Don't pay anything, ever (except slides - get the best, professionally
done). Join a cooperative gallery if one is available near you. Wonderful
experience in all aspects of the marketing/showing/etc. of art. Press
releases, openings, gallery management - great learning experience! If a
cooperative isn't feasible, community colleges usually have announcements
for slide submissions for shows available during the coming year. Maybe your
local bank? Forget about agents and selling until you've shown a bit. Here
in the US, each state has a "Commission for the Arts" newsletter, I'll bet
Canada does too. Get on the mailing list and others. Keeping in touch with
other artists is good practice. Go to as many art openings as you can;
pretty soon people will treat you as "one of the group" even if they don't
know your name (good way to meet people who can give advice or open doors if
you aren't too pushy in the beginning)
But this cart is waaaaaaaay before the horse! Do LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of
art first! Read as much art-related material (artists, art history, art
marketing) as possible. Do it for yourself and no one else!
Kay
Chris
Go for it! I restarted my career at roughly the same age; I have several
friends in the same position, ranging from abstract to quite realistic.
Age is irrelevant except that you have more experience (in life) to
bring to your work, probably less distractions, and a better sense of
humour.. :)
Having to start young is an outmoded paradigm, based to a large degree
on a life expectancy that would have you dead by now. Perhaps like with
many other fields, you probably need 10-20 years to really peak, so at
45 you've got lots of time!...as for painters, van Gogh, Gaugin,
Douanier Rousseau, (and arguably Matisse) were all late starters by the
standards of their time, and they did all right, at least
artistically...
Cheers;
Chris
===============
--
Artwork: http://www.gammarat.com/Artists/ChrisB
Ponderable
ones who prepare something to fall back on always do (fall back on it).
I guess there are different realms of success. I'm sure you can accomplish
anything you can visualize. I think, ultimately, everyone gets what they really
believe. Don't you think so?
But the ones who really do well in any field, are the ones who would do it even
if everyone told them that there was no way to succeed.
Tim Folzenlogen
Chris
John Frum wrote:
> Are there follies of a similar nature in the art world that a
> relative newbie should look out for? Agents that charge a fee, galleries
> that are paid by the artist up front to hang their work etc. etc.?
I guess the most common one I've seen are just high entrance fees for
exhibitions - eg. 25$ to look at a slide, etc. (skip those); oh, and of
course frames! Seems that as far as some framers are concerned, what you
really need is that double-decker gold leaf rococco bit of fluff that'll
set you back about 30$ a running foot....There's also the courses &
workshops that seem to be quite fashionable but cost an arm & a leg &
bits in between. But then again, some people like them, so why not...
Art supplies can be pricey if you buy retail - are you in the States?
there's some good catalog outfits.
As for galleries, up here (Halifax) 20-30% commission on gallery sales
is standard; I don't know any galleries that charge in advance, or that
charge a hanging fee, but maybe that's different where you are. Local
arts groups are often a good place to start asking around.
In the meantime, get a webpage & let us see your stuff! (there's free
pages at places like Yahoo/Geocities, and Xoom..)
Cheers;
Chris
--
Artwork: http://www.gammarat.com/Artists/ChrisB
Ponderable
He only did that to make money on the fees.
It was always kinda sad. These artists would show up from middle America
thinking that this was their big break in NYC. No way.
Maybe not a big deal though. Maybe it's worth it just to list it on the resume.
Motivated them to come to NY, which is always am educational if not good
experience. But I wouldn't expect much to happen career wise from such
ventures. At very least, if you can, check out the show before deciding if you
want to enter it next year. I doubt that anyone who was accepted in this
particular gallery tried again the next year.
Chris also mentioned that in Halifax the galleries charge 20 - 30% commission.
In NYC 50% is the standard. Maybe that sounds like a lot but I've never had
any problem with it. Considering their overhead, they need it; and if they
actually do the job they are suppose to do, they are well worth it.
Tim Folzenlogen
Ponderable
done)."
Couldn't disagree more.
If you have a decent camera (or know someone who does) you shoot your work
against a plain back drop. You can buy the right light bulbs to light the work
for what a professional photographer would charge for a slide or two.
If you don't want to deal with lights, shoot outside, in the shade, on a sunny
day. Use Kodacrome (leans toward warm colors - I like it the best) or Ectacrome
(leans toward blue) 64 ASA film.
As long as you frame the image up properly with the viewfinder, you will get
slides that are every bit as good as what a "professional" (a guy with a
camera) can do.
But in any case, no career hinges on quality of slides. Good work will look
provocative enough on a bad slide, and bad work will look shitty even if you
pay $10 per slide.
Also, in NY and most places I have shown, you don't get into galleries by
dropping off slides. Most galleries do not even look at them before sending
them back.
Getting into galleries is mostly about making relationships. If you click with
their personality, maybe they will give your work a look. Or maybe you get
friendly with one of their artists and he/she refers you to the director.
Most gallery directors tend to know each other. Even directors in small cities
know directors in larger cities. It's an amazingly small world. So you show
where you are, starting with bullshit spaces, and work your way up the ladder
in a very organic natural fashion.
"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." Some sage said that and
I believe it is true.
Your reality will always reflect who you are. When you yourself are ready for
the next level of involvement, a connection will appear. Of course, this
normally means busting your ass, which is a big part of being ready.
Young artists dream of making big connections but the truth is, the reason that
isn't happening in their life, is because they are not ready. Like, for
instance, I got a show in December. Three weeks ago the director tells me he
needs 2 more large pieces for the show. He sold some stuff and has to fill in
the blanks. So I've got to be able to come up with 2 large quality pieces,
have them be dry enough to ship to the framer and be hanging on a wall in 7
weeks. No problem, but I wasn't always able to say that.
There are all kinds of hoops and tests you have to pass along the way. The big
commission that you don't really want to do, it's not your kind of thing, but
this collector has already invested a hundred grand into your career and so how
can you say no? Can you make him happy? Lots of situations like that.
I wrote that your external situation will always reflect your internal.
When I first came to NYC, I'd walk around and look at the galleries in awe. I
started out selling on the street.
Back then, when I imagined having openings in an important gallery, I think I
imagined it to be like walking down the street and having everyone throw gold
coins at me or something. Like it would be an other-worldly experience of
tremendous fortune.
But now I'm showing in those galleries and the truth is that it is not like
that at all. For me personally, I don't feel any different than I did when I
was showing on the street.
That's because the external reality is always reflecting who you are, so all
you ever see is yourself, and to yourself you are rather common. Like looking
in a mirror every day.
It's not like you step up into a higher reality. It's more like that higher
reality becomes diminished to where it fits you like an old pair of gym shoes.
Some day I will show in The Met. I know I will.
And it will be no different than showing anywhere else. Talking to those people
will be no more difficult than me sitting here chatting with you.
Stuff happens when you are no longer impressed with it. When you are in awe or
the goal, intimidated, whatever.....it is that very awe that is separating you
from it. It is telling you that you are not yet there.
Once you become it, you will be; and if you don't become it, you don't want to
go there anyway as it wouldn't be comfortable at all. Like tight shoes or
something.
Tim Folzenlogen
Kay
Kay wrote:
:"Don't pay anything, ever (except slides - get the best, professionally
:done)."
Ponderable wrote in reply:
:Couldn't disagree more.
:If you have a decent camera (or know someone who does) you shoot your work
:against a plain back drop. You can buy the right light bulbs to light the
work
:for what a professional photographer would charge for a slide or two.
Not that simple. You didn't mention diffusing the light with some white
paper so they don't end up with two bright light spots showing on their
painting. Also the problem if the work is too small, too large, reflective,
etc. If they are not aces in the technical aspect of photography, this is
taking too much time, energy and knowledge away from the actual artmaking.
:If you don't want to deal with lights, shoot outside, in the shade, on a
sunny
:day. Use Kodacrome (leans toward warm colors - I like it the best) or
Ectacrome
:(leans toward blue) 64 ASA film.
May need a close up lens depending on size of work. Also backdrop so a wall
doesn't show in the slide or something. Why bother? I'm sure people here
have had some great slides as well as washed out faded color slides...
:As long as you frame the image up properly with the viewfinder, you will
get
:slides that are every bit as good as what a "professional" (a guy with a
:camera) can do.
By accident! Sometimes! Sometimes not!
:But in any case, no career hinges on quality of slides. Good work will look
:provocative enough on a bad slide, and bad work will look shitty even if
you
:pay $10 per slide.
Beginning artists (which the original poster stated they were) have to have
the highest quality slides possible. If someone is viewing slides and not
the actual artwork what are they going to judge the work on? There IS NO
reputation at such an early point.
:Also, in NY and most places I have shown, you don't get into galleries by
:dropping off slides. Most galleries do not even look at them before
sending
:them back.
Beginning artist here asking for advice. Lives in Canada. Why would he start
in NYC?
:Getting into galleries is mostly about making relationships. If you click
with
:their personality, maybe they will give your work a look. Or maybe you get
:friendly with one of their artists and he/she refers you to the director.
I agree totally. Good advice.
:Most gallery directors tend to know each other. Even directors in small
cities
:know directors in larger cities. It's an amazingly small world. So you show
:where you are, starting with bullshit spaces, and work your way up the
ladder
:in a very organic natural fashion.
Ditto.
:"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." Some sage said that
and
:I believe it is true.
:
:Your reality will always reflect who you are. When you yourself are ready
for
:the next level of involvement, a connection will appear. Of course, this
:normally means busting your ass, which is a big part of being ready.
Also, putting the ego aside because there WILL be rejections.
:Young artists dream of making big connections but the truth is, the reason
that
:isn't happening in their life, is because they are not ready.
The poster here was 45 and beginning.
(snipping advanced career anecdotes)
I enjoy reading about your experiences and your detour to Japan in another
post was an eye-opener to me. This was a beginning artist at the age of 45
and I still maintain that professionally done slides are a must at this
point. Ask curators or any situation where entry is chosen by slides (even
cooperative gallery membership). I have seen some van Gogh slides that were
old/faded and the work was NOT impressive. If you can't see the work
properly, if you can't see the paint surface, if you can't see the correct
colors - what are you seeing?
Kay
:
:Tim Folzenlogen
Lil Ruse
>Art is having three jobs.
You hit it on the head. I 'retired' from my regular
job at the age of 50, and that is when I returned
to school to pursue a fun time learning all I could
about art. But I was only 32 when I took up art as
a hobby and was highly successful selling what I
produced then, but that was when I had lots of help
for doing the business end of things from family
and friends. It was a great avocation when I had the
time to devote to it and the help from others that
allowed me to 'only produce' while they did all of
the promoting, delivery, showing etc on my behalf.
Still and all, I am thankful that I still can sell work
when and if I really try and still have a few people
who work as my agents, occasionally selling something.
Problem now is that I no longer sell my work for the
same prices I did back then. If I did I could sell
a lot more work. To do so would undercut the people
who have paid the higher prices for my later work,
so it's a catch 22 situation for sure once you become
more successful.
Alison A Raimes
<ponde...@aol.com> writes
>"Don't pay anything, ever (except slides - get the best, professionally
>done)."
>
>
>If you have a decent camera (or know someone who does) you shoot your work
>against a plain back drop. You can buy the right light bulbs to light the work
>for what a professional photographer would charge for a slide or two.
I think this is very bad advise. It's important that your slides are a
true representation of the actual work. Unless you have photographic
training you end up with some shoddy images that that don't do justice
to the work and also show that you are not professional in your
approach. The money you will waste in the learning process could have
been better spent on getting a good set of slides in the first instance.
Galleries are inundated with slides of hundreds of so called *talented*
artists. They will do what any manager does when sieving through job
applications. They will look for the work that is presented
professionally. They need to know that the artist they are dealing with
not only cares about their work but is going to be someone they can deal
with in the real world - the world of business. Few galleries have time
for the artists who perform to the role of tormented genius. To the
gallery art is a product and the artist is the producer.
>Some day I will show in The Met. I know I will.
Why do you aspire to this ?
>
>And it will be no different than showing anywhere else. Talking to those people
>will be no more difficult than me sitting here chatting with you.
>
I certainly feel most honoured that you are taking the time out from
your 8 hours a day, every day in the studio, to do so. Thank you -
before you arrived the only famous artist that had time to occasionally
drop in with advise and wisdom was Mattison, and I know how frustrated
she gets being the only Artist here. Now she won't be so lonely ;-)
Alison
ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
Alison A Raimes
<scarl...@theriver.com> writes
>Don't pay anything, ever (except slides - get the best, professionally
>done). Join a cooperative gallery if one is available near you. Wonderful
>experience in all aspects of the marketing/showing/etc. of art. Press
>releases, openings, gallery management - great learning experience!
I have some questions about co-operatives for the group. We are
currently setting up one at Cable Street Studios in London - in reaction
to the threat of losing the studios (150 studios and 2 artist run
gallery spaces). Its a pretty complex operation because of the number of
artists here - 200 in all of which at least 80 are self employed
professionals Fine Artists. Fortunately there is a government run
service that will guide us through the logistics of setting up the co-
operative. It entails a board of directors and employing a company
secretary to administer it. Unofficially we have been running like this
for the last six months holding meetings every month and canvassing
government bodies for help in preventing planning permission being
granted to the landlords for redevelopment as residential homes.
Has anyone had experience of such a project ?
The aims of the group are to create a secure environment in which we can
continue to work and with fair rents that ensure the upkeep of the
building, meeting health and safety requirements (which currently they
do not). In addition to this we want to continue to run the two
galleries here as alternative spaces for contemporary artists - the
future of those is threatened because the landlords have always
supported them but now want a considerable amount of revenue for the
forthcoming year. Our vision is to turn the studio complex into a
community arts venue that could benefit the local area and would offer
artists here the chance to run workshops- a give and take situation.
During the last six months a small group of us have already started to
apply for educational funding.
The pitfalls I envisage are that the project needs a great deal of
commitment that artists tend not to be prepared to offer. We are under
no illusions about this - when we started the project six months ago
there were at least fifteen in the core group and now only two of us are
putting any energy into the project. Unfortunately the other person is
an Australian whose visa runs out in April. That is why we need the co-
op or the hard work of the last six months will have been in vain. We
need to form a strong body of artists who are capable of equal input and
present ourselves to the governing bodies as professional working
artists who need support.
I am curious as to how co-operatives are formed in USA or anywhere else,
or if anyone has had experience here in Britain.
Regards.
Alison
ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
Marilyn Welch
There are courses and books on photographing art work, including
instructions on camera, film, lights, backdrop etc.
And not all gallery directors/curators are so rigid that they will only
consider the most pristine perfect presentations. In fact, some of the
slickest portfolios contain mediocre work. Curators are aware of that.
They are looking for the needles in the haystack, and sometimes the
"needles" come in humble packages.
Marilyn
On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Alison A Raimes wrote:
> In article <19991104100304...@ng-cd1.aol.com>, Ponderable
> <ponde...@aol.com> writes
> >"Don't pay anything, ever (except slides - get the best, professionally
> >done)."
> >
Kay
Alison A Raimes wrote:
:I have some questions about co-operatives for the group. We are
:currently setting up one at Cable Street Studios in London - in reaction
:to the threat of losing the studios (150 studios and 2 artist run
:gallery spaces). Its a pretty complex operation because of the number of
:artists here - 200 in all of which at least 80 are self employed
:professionals Fine Artists. Fortunately there is a government run
:service that will guide us through the logistics of setting up the co-
:operative. It entails a board of directors and employing a company
:secretary to administer it. Unofficially we have been running like this
:for the last six months holding meetings every month and canvassing
:government bodies for help in preventing planning permission being
:granted to the landlords for redevelopment as residential homes.
:
:Has anyone had experience of such a project ?
Kinda sorta. In the U.S. cities usually have an "arts district" where
funding sets aside spaces for "alternative galleries" which would include
cooperatives. Also, here it is much, much easier to receive funding for
coops and art projects (educational) than it is for individual artists
grants. I wouldn't imagine London being toooo different. I don't know. I
know I wrote a grant for the Lamman (maybe one "m" - don't remember)
Foundation when I was a member of a cooperative in Tucson and they did
receive it a year after I quit (10K). There are state and regional arts
commissions here. I think maybe you may need the golden words "cultural
diversity" to obtain funds, at least here and "community outreach". I
think they don't want to just make it easy for artists to be artists but
want to award funds to artists who want to be involved with the community in
some projects and bring public awareness to the arts, etc. (At least it
should say so on a grant). It may be different in G.B.
:The aims of the group are to create a secure environment in which we can
:continue to work and with fair rents that ensure the upkeep of the
:building, meeting health and safety requirements (which currently they
:do not). In addition to this we want to continue to run the two
:galleries here as alternative spaces for contemporary artists - the
:future of those is threatened because the landlords have always
:supported them but now want a considerable amount of revenue for the
:forthcoming year. Our vision is to turn the studio complex into a
:community arts venue that could benefit the local area and would offer
:artists here the chance to run workshops- a give and take situation.
Oh, I read it now - community outreach. Good. Increases the odds for
funding.
:During the last six months a small group of us have already started to
:apply for educational funding.
Did you get the grants in by the deadline or are you waiting for new
deadlines? How many funding sources have you applied to? (Don't put all of
your apples into one cart rule).
:The pitfalls I envisage are that the project needs a great deal of
:commitment that artists tend not to be prepared to offer. We are under
:no illusions about this - when we started the project six months ago
:there were at least fifteen in the core group and now only two of us are
:putting any energy into the project. Unfortunately the other person is
:an Australian whose visa runs out in April.
Can't you put a call out to jury in new members? New members usually have
more energy. Never a shortage of artists. Actually, I don't believe there
is even ever a shortage of *good* artists...
That is why we need the co-
:op or the hard work of the last six months will have been in vain. We
:need to form a strong body of artists who are capable of equal input and
:present ourselves to the governing bodies as professional working
:artists who need support.
I'm confused now. You don't have a co-op? You want to form one? I was
mistaken in thinking you already had one but it must have been another one
not connected to the studios, right? First thing is informal gathering to
draw up rules and by-laws and then second thing is to form a tax-exempt arts
orginization in order to be able to receive funding. Mission statement.
What percentage is kept by the Gallery. You need a business-savy person to
make it all work. Maybe get a museum studies grad student to do an
internship there. Check with the local university art dept. Maybe they can
also give advice. You need a GOOD grant writer! Don't try to do it all
yourself. I did and got burnt out and it made me neglect writing for myself
which is downright stupid!
:I am curious as to how co-operatives are formed in USA or anywhere else,
:or if anyone has had experience here in Britain.
There are a couple of publications out about this and some chapters in those
art marketing books but right now my mind can't recall any titles. I'm sure
that someone else can remember sources here.
Good luck,
Kay
:Regards.
:Alison
:ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
:http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
Ponderable
>properly, if you can't see the paint surface, if you can't see the correct
>colors - what are you seeing?
>Kay
Probably enough for the director of the gallery to decide if they want to see
the work or that this type of work is not for his/her space. Even good slides
are shadows of the real thing. All reproductions are.
Besides which, most dealers I have known, if they look at the slides at all, it
is by holding the sheet up to the window and glancing at the work. Paint
surface and correct color is normally more affected by what color building is
outside his window than it is by the quality of the slide.
I still maintain that any artist, old or new, would better serve their career
by taking that $10 a slide fee and investing instead in a nice 35 mm camera.
I've been shooting my own slides forever and have never run into a problem that
I thought required hiring a professional photographer.
Tim Folzenlogen
Ponderable
>Why do you aspire to this ?
Um, why not?
I guess it is the same reason that you have a web page with images.
Why do art is no one sees it?
If some see it and have a postive experience, why not aspire that many will?
Museums are the final rung of the ladder, and the Met in NY is the biggest one
here. If I'm there, many will have the opportunity to view that which brings
me great joy.
Share the joy. That's why (I guess).
Are you telling me that you would not like to see your own work there?
Tim Folzenlogen
Ponderable
>your 8 hours a day, every day in the studio, to do so. Thank you -
That's very kind of you to say. You are welcome.
>before you arrived the only famous artist that had time to occasionally
>drop in with advise and wisdom was Mattison, and I know how frustrated
>she gets being the only Artist here. Now she won't be so lonely ;-)
I'll do my best!
>Alison
Tim Folzenlogen
Ponderable
>true representation of the actual work. Unless you have photographic
>training you end up with some shoddy images that that don't do justice
>to the work and also show that you are not professional in your
>approach. The money you will waste in the learning process could have
>been better spent on getting a good set of slides in the first instance.
>Galleries are inundated with slides of hundreds of so called *talented*
>artists. They will do what any manager does when sieving through job
>applications. They will look for the work that is presented
>professionally. They need to know that the artist they are dealing with
>not only cares about their work but is going to be someone they can deal
>with in the real world - the world of business. Few galleries have time
>for the artists who perform to the role of tormented genius. To the
>gallery art is a product and the artist is the producer.
Yo, if it works for you, go for it.
Just, for me, this sounds like some kind of art school rap. Like these people
who get all hyper about quality of materials. "Use rabbit skin glue and not
gesso. Only use quality paint, or, better yet, grind and mix your own."
I think it is bullshit. My experience tells me it is bullshit. If you have the
talent of Degas you can do something beautiful with crayons on cardboard and
the museum will find a way to preserve it; and if you can't paint worth a damn
the best material in the world isn't going to help you.
Same goes for slides.
Do slides count for something? Sure.
But compared to ability and confidence their value is practically nothing. Eye
contact and the right conversation with a director will do more toward getting
you into his space than the most expensive slides that money can buy.
And then it will come down to the work itself.
If the work is good, you are in. If it is bad, you are out.
And slides aint gonna change that equation one way or the other.
Tim Folzenlogen
Alison A Raimes
good at pushing others forward, particularly in encouraging the
youngsters, but in my own career there is no chance I will ever make it
*big*. I just don't aspire to it and am curious as to why others do. In
my last career I became *famous* as one of the first women chefs in the
UK to open, from scratch, her own restaurant in which I did all the
cooking. That meant TV and reporters and newspapers and everyone wanting
to know my business. I detested it, became quite angry over the long
term, and then hated cooking as a result. Bankruptcy followed with some
help from the 1980's recession and here I am ! I don't want the same
thing to ever happen with my painting.
Best Regards.
Alison.
In article <19991104193515...@ng-cc1.aol.com>, Ponderable
<ponde...@aol.com> writes
--
Alison A Raimes
ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
Alison A Raimes
<scarl...@theriver.com> writes
>Kinda sorta. In the U.S. cities usually have an "arts district" where
>funding sets aside spaces for "alternative galleries" which would include
>cooperatives. Also, here it is much, much easier to receive funding for
>coops and art projects (educational) than it is for individual artists
>grants. I wouldn't imagine London being toooo different.
That is one of the main reasons for setting it up. In the UK there is a
tremendous amount of funding available at the moment. The year 2000 has
been named the Year of the Arts, and projects like ours are especially
attractive to people like the London Arts Board and the Lottery.
>
>Oh, I read it now - community outreach. Good. Increases the odds for
>funding.
Exactly.
>Did you get the grants in by the deadline or are you waiting for new
>deadlines? How many funding sources have you applied to? (Don't put all of
>your apples into one cart rule).
No we failed ! My fault I am sure, but sometimes its impossible to do
things solo. I am at this very moment, preparing a leaflet that will go
out to the 200 artists (there are many new ones since we started who
don't realise what we are up to) and we will meet in a couple of weeks
to see whether or not we have the support to go forward. If not then the
thing will collapse and I guess we had all better start looking for new
studio - without funding these ones will not survive.
>
>I'm confused now. You don't have a co-op? You want to form one?
Sorry ! I am also in a gallery co-op also. Fifteen artists - but we rent
a gallery space between us and share the running if it (that's where I
am as I write). We are also about to *go on the road* together and have
a series of group shows across the UK (and one in Italy also) for the
next year. As yet we have not set the co-op up officially (with
directors) but with the Cable Street project underway it looks like we
will do the same at Skylark (we are setting up a website at the moment).
Its lucky my best asset is my energy, yes ?
>I was
>mistaken in thinking you already had one but it must have been another one
>not connected to the studios, right? First thing is informal gathering to
>draw up rules and by-laws and then second thing is to form a tax-exempt arts
>orginization in order to be able to receive funding. Mission statement.
>What percentage is kept by the Gallery. You need a business-savy person to
>make it all work. Maybe get a museum studies grad student to do an
>internship there. Check with the local university art dept. Maybe they can
>also give advice. You need a GOOD grant writer! Don't try to do it all
>yourself. I did and got burnt out and it made me neglect writing for myself
>which is downright stupid!
Great advise ! We have a mission statement which we wrote six months
ago. The next meeting is to find out if the artists actually want to do
this and then we will set up the rules etc. Now if we are going to
register tax exempt - as a charity - we can not register as a co-op. A
co-op, in the UK, must be run as a limited company and registered at
Company House. We have an artist who is in his sixties who has been a
company director - and we have me, who was trained in management and had
a business (and knows all about bankruptcy too). Great idea for the
museum grad student - I suggested we hand the galleries over to one of
the Universities here that has a museum post-grad course and let them
use it as *practise*. In fact I am going to make some calls and pursue
that one. If there is one thing that is always available in the UK, it
is funding for education.
>There are a couple of publications out about this and some chapters in those
>art marketing books but right now my mind can't recall any titles. I'm sure
>that someone else can remember sources here.
The government agency that is setting us up is going to send me a whole
lot of stuff. Thanks so much for all the advise - I knew I could rely on
you ! The best advise is not to try and do it all myself - I did that
for six months and if it hadn't been for the support of the Australian
artist I would have packed the whole thing in by now. I guess that is
why these things always fall apart.
Cheers !
Erik A. Mattila
committed suicide by jumping out of his basement window."
Erik
Alison A Raimes wrote: