Triple Raped by the Gallery
DNALJM
<--- This is where I used to show my work. I went to them over a year
ago and scheduled my interview and they selected a few works. There was a man
there named Doug who was very supportive of me. He bought a drawing that I did
and framed a work of mine at their expense. He worked with Martha.
Doug left while I was showing there. I was only interested in showing
drawings. They insisted that they be framed so I went through considerable
expense to do this. What I wanted, their 50% and the framing made the prices
high and every time I went in there they asked me to work in color, to give
them oils. So I did, I made the Three Fates and they hung it, and it sold for
800 the next week.
Later on I brought them Broken Holiday, Morning Tea, and the panel
painting BH I left unframed. Martha wrote "UNFRAMED painting" on the contract.
I went through considerable expense to frame Morning T. Both these paintings
were hung in their back rooms (office/storage). Broken Holiday she hung right
over the filing cabinet and Morning T was hung two feet over the ground. One
time I came by and saw that MT was horizontal and used paper towels where
sitting right on the surface along with a cardboard box that was making an
indentation in the canvas! Martha asked me to restore an old painting and I
agreed. She asked how much and I said "no charge, the gallery was kind enough
to frame my drawing for free and I am grateful. But I would like that my
paintings be seen in a good place. People will buy them I am thinking as I
have invested a lot of time in them."
She agreed but this was a lie. I came back in two weeks and MT was in a
chair with things once more against the surface and BH was hanging by the fire
escape in that same back room. I also had a drawing that I was not intending
to leave there but her new partner Judy came by and saw it. She said: "Why not
paint some of the buildings around here? Nobody wants to buy work with your
face in it." !!!!!!! Did she have to say this horrible thing to me? First
of all it is a lie. Scott Noel's painting of me was purchased by the Museum of
American Art in Philadelphia. I put the drawing on my site and had it sold
within two weeks.
My friend and I drove by to get my paintings so that they did not have to
serve as compost ledges anymore. Martha became very hostile. "We are here to
make money." she told my friend, pretending as though I were not there and deaf
and dumb. "We are interested in moving a lot of merchandise. She is very
young. She doesn't paint different things."
I even called her up before that, to try to make things go well. "We
are here to make money" she also told me. This is so despicable. The way she
treated my property. She claimed earlier in the year when this very famous
opera singer wanted me to do her portrait that she loved me like a daughter and
wanted to protect me. But the only thing she loves is money. The quest for
money has turned her into a heartless monster. She didn't have to treat my
property that way, let Judy talk to me that way, it just disgusts me to no end.
/end rant
Jane
www.geocities.com/teslathemothgod
<--- figurative artwork and exobiology
Dilettante
Your artwork is of a different class and better than the artwork that
gallery wants to show. That is a very conservative gallery catering to
clients who are emotionally dead, who want art only of familiar scenes
that do not challenge them.
While your work is thought provoking, in a Renaissance way, there is
a sameness to much of it, as if every piece is an attempt to create
the same ultimate picture. It is also depressing and one can sense,
mistakenly or not, a suicidal longing.
You are fortunate if you are no longer associated with that gallery.
Dilettante
DNALJM
>While your work is thought provoking, in a Renaissance way, there is
>a sameness to much of it, as if every piece is an attempt to create
>the same ultimate picture. It is also depressing and one can sense,
>mistakenly or not, a suicidal longing.
>
>You are fortunate if you are no longer associated with that gallery.
>
>Dilettante
>
Thank you Dilettante for your kind words. And how astute of you to sense a
"suicial longing" in my work. Great art which we all aspire to create can
either make one think or feel, and I consider it a success if I can communicate
my feelings so that others can sense what I'm feeling.
Jane
www.geocities.com/teslathemothgod
<---- figurative artwork and exobiology links
WoN ereH
>clients who are emotionally dead, who want art only of familiar scenes
>that do not challenge them.
I am a fairly accomplished artist, and I have a lot of art made by myself and
others. However, I too don't want depressing art hanging on my walls. I often
use drawing to express my pain (or pleasure) but personally, I don't want to
see my painful feelings on display everyday. It is not good *feng shui* to have
depressing work on one's walls. ;) This does not mean I am emotionally dead
or only want familiar scenes. It may mean that I want my home to be uplifting
and happy. If I want to see depressing things, I can turn on the tv.
I watched the Frida Kalo movie the other night. It was gut wrenching to see
her pain. She made her pain into art, and expressing pain in one's art can be
incredibly evocative and even beautiful, as in her case.
However, I don't think self-indulgent art made by depressed people is usually
commercially viable. Don't assume people that don't want that hanging in their
houses to be emotionally dead or naive about art. They may just be like most
people who are trying to cultivate happiness in a difficult world, and want
color and beauty to surround them, at least in their own little nest. Sounds
almost emotionally healthy....
..
DG
judith
Thur wrote in message
<_YM4b.3560$c12....@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>...
>The very idea of self-indulgency is to a great extent
>the cause of what I see as a fall in the value of art.
The 'value' of art is relevant.
>Art and the artist are too self-aware for the good of art.
>This is because the fundamental artistic force that used
>to drive art has been laid aside.
I thought 'the fundamental artistic force' was indeed self-indulgence
while self-awareness is what spawns art in humanity.
The first paintings on cave walls bear witness of the painter's 'life'
while the decoration of tools is totally self-indulgent.
>There used to be people who painted, and they painted
>with confidence that the reason for creating art was,
>although not defined, the same as always.
The 'reason for creating art' became clearly 'defined' when
it was no longer to appease only the gods but the ruling class.
Artists were told what to paint and they did what they were told.
>Now that there are artists [currently in vogue]dedicated
>to challenging the definition of art, then any art that has
>a look of art created in the past, is of no value. "derivative"
Give us a definition of 'art'.
Roman frescoes are different from the walls of Lascaux,
Renaissance perspective is different from Roman, and
20th C canvases are different from 15th C altarpieces.
Emulating past art styles (derivative) continues to be
appreciated, and sometimes preferred, by some buyers
just as new creative expressions are by others.
Why is that a problem?
>Much of contemporary art that I have seen seems to be created
>with a view to avoid this slur. At least, I see no other explanation.
>But I don't blame it all on the artist, as there are many
>buyers who appear to believe that they own or are buying,
>or are viewing great art.
Great Art is a matter of individual taste, something that changes
with time, experience, politics, economics and level of education.
>Thur
Judith
WoN ereH
>>> However, I don't think self-indulgent art made by
>>> depressed people is usually commercially viable.
> So because someone creates a work of art that reflects the fact that
>they're unhappy or have some major shit to deal with it sucks? It's
>"indulgent"? It's one thing to say that people probably would rather buy
>paintings of vases with flowers like this sot probably makes but quite
>another
>to say art dealing with issues like molesation, depression, and suicide is
>"indulgent." Did you ever stop to think that rather than a bubble bath and a
>weekend in Sweeden this is maybe the only way people can deal with shit like
>this that haunts them every day?
That attitude itself sounds very self indulgent. You live in a rich country so
you can afford to feel sorry for yourself. If you were hungry you wouldn't
worry yourself so over how you've been wronged. You'd be trying to just
survive, to find some nourishment, some shelter. To contemplate the easy way
out of suicide when life is difficult, which it often is, but it is also so
terribly short, is likewise self indulgent. Lots of people were molested as
kids, including me. Get over it. You don't have near as much time as you
think to waste dwelling on the past.
> No I guess not. Why don't you try pounding
>NAILS into your arm and try to make shiny-happy vapid shit like flower
>paintings to make a buck?? And then find someone to tell you that you are
>self-aborbed because you can't ignore the blood and pain and tetanus coated
>metal protruding from your body?
Huh? Have you tried anti-depressants? They work great. BTW, I don't make
art to make a buck. But if I did, I would probably make flower paintings. Why
would I make non saleable art if all I wanted was to make a buck?
>Or no I guess that you would dismiss this
>because mental pain you can't see and that makes it easy for you to mock and
>trivialize.
Oh, so you're the only person in the world that's been depressed? How many
millions of people are on anti-depressants? Hey, it's depressing when you live
past 30 and have to watch yourself slowly die over the next 50 years. But the
alternative is far worse. Not so long ago, people didn't have the option of
whining over their lot in life. They procreated and dropped dead pretty young.
Now that we live long enough, and are free enough to express ourselves, we can
moan our self indulgent angst till the cows go moo. Isn't it just wonderful?
>You're one of those people who tells vets who suffer from PTSD
>who
>chew on themselves, live on the streets and have no legs to buck up and pull
>their shit together.
Nope, would feel terribly sorry for them and give them a buck. But that's
about it probably.
> This is probably going to disappoint you but I am not some high school
>student making artwork with dried snot and black acrylic paint. I studied
>chemistry for a year, was classically trained at an Academy for three years,
>got into Cooper Union, and have an intimate knowledge of art history.
>Jane
Why should that disappoint me? Frankly, I really don't care what you've
studied. Far more important than studies is experience. Being young, you're
obviously in lack of same. But you'll find, that experience, even painful
experiences, help you grow. The more you have, the stronger you can get.
There will be good and bad. That's just the way it is. What I am trying to
tell you, having a bit more, no, a lot more experience, is that life is not so
bad really. Cherish the little time that you have. Or not. Totally your
choice.
>"I didn't know I was color blind until I got much older. I always wondered
>why
>my parents got me 64 gray crayons."
>http://www.geocities.com/teslathemothgod
><---my art
That sucks. But since you've apparently always been color blind, you don't
know what you're missing. At least you're not blind. I think that would be
far far more to complain about. But you don't generally find blind people
complaining about being blind. Perhaps volunteer some time at a services for
the blind place. Might take away some time and inclination from your self
indulgent self centered melodrama.
DG
DNALJM
>you can afford to feel sorry for yourself.
What, do you think people in povery-stricken countries don't ever kill
themselves or get depressed? Or maybe we don't have statistics for them
because we can't market ADs to them and don't give a rat's ass if they decorate
the walls with their brains.
Or am I supposed to use their misery to make myself feel better? Do you you
think that they would appreciate being exploited in that way? What do they
tell the person dying of AIDS laying in a puddle of his own shit in Africa to
cheer him up?
>If you were hungry you wouldn't
>worry yourself so over how you've been wronged. You'd be trying to just
>survive, to find some nourishment, some shelter
For what? Do you think going through garbage cans and looking for
something to keep the rain off is a stellar reason to ignore my problems and
live?
>To contemplate the easy way
>out of suicide when life is difficult, which it often is, but it is also so
>terribly short, is likewise self indulgent.
So is reading Usenet when you could be feeding homeless invalids! Oh but
then you wouldn't have anyone to make yourself feel better would you?
>Huh? Have you tried anti-depressants?
Three so far.
>They work great.
Glad they work for *you*.
>They procreated and dropped dead pretty young.
When honey dripped from trees and nobody killed themselves, right?
> Now that we live long enough, and are free enough to express ourselves, we
>can
>moan our self indulgent angst till the cows go moo. Isn't it just wonderful?
Don't look at my art if it bitches you off that much. I personally think
that some of it isn't depressing.
>Nope, would feel terribly sorry for them and give them a buck. But that's
>about it probably.
You're a saint.
>Far more important than studies is experience. Being young, you're
>obviously in lack of same.
Well I can't help that can I? I didn't get to pick when my parents double
backed me into this world.
>That sucks. But since you've apparently always been color blind, you
don't
>know what you're missing.
I'm not color blind. The quote came from this guy on TV, I thought it was
funny. The bit about the crayons, not his being color blind.
>Might take away some time and inclination from your self
>indulgent self centered melodrama.
>
Ok, I don't invest "time" in self-indulgence. I'm just depressed. I
don't have the energy to get out of bed some days. I know that you can snort
and look down your nose at that and tell me to suck it up because it is a
mental problem but if you wouldn't go to a cancer ward and tell people to get a
pogo stick and laugh it off maybe you could expand yourself a wee bit and
consider not being such a dick. These meds don't do shit for me.
Jane
http://www.geocities.com/teslathemothgod
<---my art
Peter H.M. Brooks
"Thur" <a@spamless.z> wrote in message
news:tNY4b.3986$c12....@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
>
> I find your choice of cave painter compared with today's
> self-aware artist totally spurious, and a red herring.
>
Maybe you'd benefit from reading up on the topic of cave painting. There are
few things that can beat an informed opinion!
--
Hark, wretches! how I mean to martyr you. This one hand yet is left to cut
your throats, Whilst that Lavinia 'tween her stumps doth hold the baisin
that receives your guilty blood. -Titus Andronicus (Hastivibrax)
WoN ereH
>>you can afford to feel sorry for yourself.
> What, do you think people in povery-stricken countries don't ever kill
>themselves or get depressed? Or maybe we don't have statistics for them
>because we can't market ADs to them and don't give a rat's ass if they
>decorate
>the walls with their brains.
Of course they do. When they are not trying to simply survive. Which probably
takes up the majority of their time. Having time to contemplate one's misery
is a luxery of sorts.
> Or am I supposed to use their misery to make myself feel better? Do you
>you
>think that they would appreciate being exploited in that way? What do they
>tell the person dying of AIDS laying in a puddle of his own shit in Africa to
>cheer him up?
You are obviously very angry. Depression is anger turned inward, towards
yourself. If you can figure out what you are angry about, and resolve it to
some degree, it may help your depression a great deal (since apparently your
depression is not biologically based or the meds would eradicate it).
> >If you were hungry you wouldn't
>>worry yourself so over how you've been wronged. You'd be trying to just
>>survive, to find some nourishment, some shelter
>
> For what? Do you think going through garbage cans and looking for
>something to keep the rain off is a stellar reason to ignore my problems and
>live?
No, it is simply to ask you to look at what you have to be thankful for. Make
a list. You might surprise yourself.
>>To contemplate the easy way
>>out of suicide when life is difficult, which it often is, but it is also so
>>terribly short, is likewise self indulgent.
(snip more whining)
> Don't look at my art if it bitches you off that much. I personally
>think
>that some of it isn't depressing.
I didn't find your art depressing really. I thought it showed some talent.
But you were wondering why the gallery didn't want it. I just don't think it
is very commercial. It's looks a lot like the kind of stuff I did in college.
I do think it is rather self-indulgent, in fact, obviously so, but most art
nowadays is. We live in a time and place where everyone is pretty
self-indulgent, in fact, our entire culture relies on that fact. It won't
always be that way, that is certain. Enjoy the bounty while it is here. Or
not. Your choice.
> Well I can't help that can I? I didn't get to pick when my parents double
>backed me into this world.
Are you now complaining about your parents? Mine couldn't afford to send me to
a fancy college, or any college for that matter, as yours obviously did. Sound
a bit spoiled you do.
> Ok, I don't invest "time" in self-indulgence. I'm just depressed. I
>don't have the energy to get out of bed some days. I know that you can snort
>and look down your nose at that and tell me to suck it up because it is a
>mental problem but if you wouldn't go to a cancer ward and tell people to get
>a
>pogo stick and laugh it off maybe you could expand yourself a wee bit and
>consider not being such a dick. These meds don't do shit for me.
>Jane
Listen, I know depression is horrible. Far worse than a physical pain. There
are far more than 3 anti-depressant meds. And they can be combined. You are
incredibly fortunate to live in a time when there ARE anti-depressants.
Suicide rates are down. You don't really want to kill yourself, you really
just want to stop being depressed. Keep trying to find a solution. In the
meantime, have you tried painting on a large canvas using bright colors with
loud uplifting music on? Being completely loose, as opposed to the tightness
of realism in pencil? The windows open with a cool breeze blowing thru....
Eating chocolate truffles (a decent anti-depressant apparently). Yea, sounds
self-indulgent, but at least it might cheer you up for a spell.....
DG
DNALJM
>>backed me into this world.
>
>Are you now complaining about your parents? Mine couldn't afford to send me
>to
>a fancy college, or any college for that matter, as yours obviously did.
No, I was complaining that you were using my being young as a weapon to
invalidate my arguments when I obviously don't have any choice in the matter.
>Sound
>a bit spoiled you do
I'm spoiled because I went to college? I went on a scholarship. I worked
hard. But I grew up in an affluent house with a big pool and lots of palm
trees. Like I said I don't feel that I've chose to be depressed, like oh, I
could be really happy and live for the joys of my big ass childhood home but it
would be much better to brood over my shit even though I don't have to. Anyone
can go to college you know. They give out grants and you can take out loans.
Jane
DNALJM
Look, I don't want to get into a pissing contest here over how many material
things I had growing up or how you've had suckier things happen to you and you
still have a big 'ol grin on your face.
I don't feel like I'm a sobby whiner by nature. I don't bitch about how I've
had chronic ear infections for a year, how I eat Ramen noodle bricks for dinner
every night, etc. This post was about the gallery. And not them not wanting
my work or me feeling slighted because more people didn't buy my work. I am
doing good self-promoting anyway. It is about how we were mutually respectful
of each-other and then they got sneaky and dark on me and that blew.
A little heads up if you will. A friend just left her gallery because
they were taking 70% and she didn't want to deal with it anymore. Employer is
owed thousands of dollars by her gallery, she will probably have to sue to get
it. Investigate before you hang because these people can be sleezeballs.
Let me say that if prompted I will tell you that depression is the worst
thing to have to deal with. You can't "snap out of it" or "choose not to have
it." I don't care if ADs work for you. Sometimes Lipotor will work if you
have high blood pressure. Sometimes you have it so bad you just keel over from
a massive coronary. My mother had bad depression all her life. She never
worked. She ran around the room screaming, "I will kill the kids and then
myself!" She had panic attacks. She took meds all her life and still did this.
I don't want to live this way.
Killing yourself isn't easy and it isn't the coward's way out. Put a gun to
your head and see if you feel it will be easy to pull the trigger. If it were
easy I would be dead by now! I've stood for hours with a noose around my neck
trying to gain the compunction to kick the chair away. I don't have the energy
or the desire anymore to play musical chairs with medication. This is my body
and I choose to get rid of it to end my constant pain and worthlessness.
Jane
http://www.geocities.com/teslathemothgod
<-- mine art, and some exobiology links
Flying _Naked_People
<20030902193038...@mb-m24.aol.com>...
> This is my body
> and I choose to get rid of it to end my constant pain and worthlessness.
>
For what it's worth, one (painful) discovery of life is learning that some of
us have to "create" our "own" worthiness.
It -can- be one of the most depressing revelations in the world. But. If
carefully considered, you can realize there are advantages. You may even view
it as being "born again."
Give yourself permission to break free from your past.
Imagine yourself standing in front of an empty new room. What
will you fill it with...
that will make *You* and *Others* (that you invite into that
room)...
"comfortable, creative, SAFE, and happy?"
This room is your new life. It's yours to control, manipulate, change, and
enjoy.
Give yourself permission to BLOCK that which does not contribute to the *mood*
of your new "room".
(You CAN say "no" to people - You DO have the right to appear
-snooty-
for this purpose. You DO have the right to question the
motivations
behind those who want to bring ugliness and chaos into this new
"room"
that you're building.)
Give yourself permission to WORK (the hardest part, btw) to get the things
required for your new "room."
Give yourself permission to BE yourself in -creating- your new "room."
Give yourself PERMISSION.
Give your SELF.
Give JANE a new Jane for her new "room."
Flying _Naked_People
I *did* find it bizarre (which is a good thing in my book) that all the
subjects looked alike. I know you do this because you don't have models. But
it *fascinated* me into thinking about Clones - Aliens - and then ultimately -
to thinking about other life on other planets !! That was quite a "trip" you
took me on.
The science laboratory really lended thought to the clone theme and it was
rather, delightfully disturbing!!
Hope you don't get offended. I've ***never*** seen artwork like that.
Again, going back to the science piece - the '*time* was "off" on that too.
Now what I mean by that is for some reason, the picture looked as if it was a
scene from the past. But we both know women weren't exactly welcome in the 'ol
lab back in the day. So maybe... just maybe this is a picture in the future.
How can a picture be in the past *and* in the future?
By principle perhaps. Perhaps the timing is not based on earth's rotation, but
by Values... or, more simply put... "How It ***Should*** Have Been."
If there could be a "Should-a... Would-a... Could-a.... Clock, this picture
would be in *that* sort of time place."
(I really don't know if you understand a WORD of that!!! Lol.)
Anyway, I'd like to know what is depressing about this stuff. The fact that
the subjects are not smiling?? Denotes a serious attitude to me!
Flying _Naked_People
> A little heads up if you will. A friend just left her gallery because
> they were taking 70% and she didn't want to deal with it anymore. Employer
is
> owed thousands of dollars by her gallery, she will probably have to sue to
get
> it. Investigate before you hang because these people can be sleezeballs.
>
Another thing. A contract would have prevented all of that. And your probs
too, maybe. You DO have the right to demand your art be handled in a
professional and respectful manner. After all, your current artwork has the
potential of being worth millions one day.
Lecture (With an Echo, please):
Give-give-give...
Yourself-self-self...
Permission-mission-mission...
To-to-to...
Demand-mand-mand...
Respect-spect-spect...
Jane-jane-jane....
<hee hee>
judith
Thur wrote in message ...
>x-no-archive: yes
>I see your post as encompassing the 'art' of today.
>You seem to me to be saying there is no value that
>is eternal. Indeed you are saying that nothing is eternal.
>Nothing we can share with the painters of caves.
Oh but honest art does have an eternal value; it communicates
across time and culture so that we can indeed share with the
painters of caves. I am sorry you can't grasp that aspect.
>The fundamental artistic force is a natural feeling to
>create, and to produce something which earns favour
>with others, especially one's peers. I expect this is a
>clumsy definition, and I dont wish to waste any more
>words on it.
Yes it is a clumsy definition, and a sad one. If you believe
art is made only to impress one's peers then thank you for
not continuing in such an ignorant manner. It would only prove
embarrassing.
>The viewer is expected to journey around the inner
>character of the artist, in comparison which most art of the
>past which attempts to use an expression of the world which
>both the artist and viewer can share.
We have other ways of sharing and expressing what we see in
the world today, from family snaps to satellite photographs. Can't
we go further by expressing and sharing our humanity through art?
If you are so afraid of expressing yourself, or sharing feelings,
take up bowling.
>How do you account for the taste of many for art that is completely out
>of fashion?
I would admire their honesty.
>By completely, I mean that if Leonardo produced any of his work today,
>then he would hardly get gallery space, and would be unable to support
>his team of assistants, some of them notable artists in their own right.
Actually Leo didn't get hired for his artistic merit but for his
'inventiveness'.
Read his letter to the Duke asking for patronage ~ he goes on about his
engineering prowess then adds, almost as a PS, that he paints. He didn't
consider himself an artist and I believe he finished only about 9 paintings
in all. Then there is his 'sfumato' effect which was revolutionary at the
time
and probably some people didn't like it. As for paying assistants, the duke
would have that responsibility. Then as now, without some sort of patronage,
it's hard to get a showing.
>You argue for values that change so that no comparison can be made
>with the past.
>Something that you and others have constructed as a convenience to
>hide poor art.
Not true. I argue for values that change as life on earth changes. However
as long as artists ask the viewer to join them on their journey, art
maintains
a constant that runs from the long lost past through today and to tomorrow.
In
that way we can compare art through the ages, annotating mere fads along
the way. There will always be a need to hide poor art and there will always
be examples of poor art as long as people produce it to impress one's peers.
>Thur
>
>
>
>"judith" <jud...@vianet.net.au> wrote in message
>news:bj0ovi$g0e$1...@yeppa.connect.com.au...
>>
>> Thur wrote in message
>> <_YM4b.3560$c12....@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>...
>>
>> >The very idea of self-indulgency is to a great extent
>> >the cause of what I see as a fall in the value of art.
>>
>> The 'value' of art is relevant.
>>
>> >Art and the artist are too self-aware for the good of art.
>> >This is because the fundamental artistic force that used
>> >to drive art has been laid aside.
>>
>> I thought 'the fundamental artistic force' was indeed self-indulgence
>> while self-awareness is what spawns art in humanity.
>> The first paintings on cave walls bear witness of the painter's 'life'
>> while the decoration of tools is totally self-indulgent.
>>
>> >There used to be people who painted, and they painted
>> >with confidence that the reason for creating art was,
>> >although not defined, the same as always.
>>
>> The 'reason for creating art' became clearly 'defined' when
>> it was no longer to appease only the gods but the ruling class.
>> Artists were told what to paint and they did what they were told.
>>
>> >Now that there are artists [currently in vogue]dedicated
>> >to challenging the definition of art, then any art that has
>> >a look of art created in the past, is of no value. "derivative"
>>
WoN ereH
>I don't feel like I'm a sobby whiner by It >is about how we were mutually
respectful
>of each-other and then they got sneaky >and dark on me and that blew.
Apparently you're not used to not having your way. These things happen.
Hardly worth killing yourself over.
> A little heads up if you will. A friend just >left her gallery because
>they were taking 70% and she didn't want >to deal with it anymore. Employer
is
>owed thousands of dollars by her gallery, >she will probably have to sue to
get
>it. Investigate before you hang because >these people can be sleezeballs.
Gallery owners are notorious for being rip off artists. They probably start
off believing how great it will be to help genius artists and get rich at the
same time. But cruel reality sets in and they realize what a pain it is dealing
with flaky artists and even flakier clients.. I ran an alternative space
gallery for 4 years and I was amazed how pretentious and self riteous most
artists were.
> Let me say that if prompted I will tell >you that depression is the worst
>thing to have to deal with. You can't >"snap out of it" or "choose not to
have
>it." I don't care if ADs work for you.
I never had severe depression fortunately, but even mild depression is pretty
depressing.
My mother had bad depression all her life. > She never
>worked. She ran around the room >screaming, "I will kill the kids and then
>myself!" She had panic attacks. She >took meds all her life and still did
this.
> I don't want to live this way.
Sounds like a real messed up person. They didn't have the drugs they have now.
Though they did use electric shock therapy and still do in extreme cases.
> I don't have the energy
>or the desire anymore to play musical >chairs with medication. This is my
body
>and I choose to get rid of it to end my >constant pain and worthlessness.
You must be the second born child, as they tend to mimic their mother'x life
script. I am reminded of a few very rich kids I've known, or known of, that
killed themselves. Being spoiled as a child can make life very hard. You're
used to getting your way and you have no idea how to cope when things don't go
how you want them to. Gloria Vanderbilt's son jumped out of a window because
his girlfriend broke up with him. A Dupont kid I knew killed himself when his
boyfriend broke up with him.
Your life is to do with as you please. But why you think murdering Jane is
better than taking her on a train thru China, or to a Buddhist monestery in
Japan, or being a lifeguard on the Italian riviera, or fishing off the coast of
Norway, or any zillions of things besides sitting around feeling miserable, is
really very unimaginative for an artist....
DG
DNALJM
>too, maybe. You DO have the right to demand your art be handled in a
>professional and respectful manner. After all, your current artwork has the
>potential of being worth millions one day.
A contract is a must. Mine didn't specify how the work was to be handled.
My friend has one which will be crutial if she sues to get the money she is
owed. What a pain in the ass though, you think people would just handle
themselves honorably, if for no other reason than a good reputation to keep
themselves in buisness.
Jane
DNALJM
>the subjects are not smiling?? Denotes a serious attitude to me!
Yeah, it's hard to keep smiling for the 3-5 hour stretches that I work. Can't
think of a lot of self-portraits where people are smiling probably for that
reason.
You may like the art of Tina Newberry, there's a link at the bottom of the
page under the fine arts links. She almost totally does self-portraits in a
very "real" way. They seem to say, "here I am, I hate and love myself, and I'm
stuck with me." I'm thinking that she loves science too with her attention to
draftsmanship and bonatanical/animal props.
Thanks for saying that you enjoyed the work,
Jane
http://www.geocities.com/teslathemothgod
my stuff
DNALJM
Flying Naked People wrote about clones and aliens.
I guess you're talking about partheogenisis here. Sort of a fun thing for
people who say, "why do you only paint yourself?" Plus I was going through the
childhood photos. I thought maybe I could do a massive orgy with all the
participants being me but it seemed like too much work for a joke piece.
I just read in Science News that they cloned a horse and the foal was a
clone of its mother so that it was identical twins with her. (geez) This
happened in Italy and the foal's name is Prometea. And yes, I made a little
image of her with a friend of mine looking down at her while being showered
with flowers, and wrote "they should clone you, because you are sweet and
awesome." Apparently things like markings are mutable and migrate in the womb
so these are not identical. Her mane is dark and her mother's is white.
Jane
http://www.geocities.com/teslathemothgod
You guessed it, my art
Peter H.M. Brooks
"Thur" <a@spamless.z> wrote in message
>
> Informed opinions by themselves are useless as they can be both
> wrong and right.
>
Not really. Informed opinions are useful because the probability of their
being right is far higher than that for uninformed ones. It is for this
reason that you can tell an uninformed opinion - it tends to be wrong.
--
Men don't pay you to sleep with them. They pay you to go home - Philip Roth
'The Human Stain' pg 236
Erik A. Mattila
> "Thur" <a@spamless.z> wrote in message
> news:Xci5b.72$Ve...@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
>
>>Informed opinions by themselves are useless as they can be both
>>wrong and right.
>>
>
> Not really. Informed opinions are useful because the probability of their
> being right is far higher than that for uninformed ones. It is for this
> reason that you can tell an uninformed opinion - it tends to be wrong.
And uninformed opinions that are wrong can be useful too. Take Iraq for
example...
Erik
WoN ereH
>>Hardly worth killing yourself over.
>
>different things. Getting hind teat exhibiting space sucked; having my work
>treated in a manner where it sustained dents in the canvas-unfucken
>forgiveable. Call me and I will pick it up if you don't want to show it,
>it's
>valuable to me.
Guess what? Life ain't always fair. If it were, it would soon get boring as
hell.
>> ran an alternative space
>>gallery for 4 years and I was amazed how pretentious and self riteous most
>>artists were.
>
> I think if you could have been a fly on the wall you would have found
>that
>I conduct myself very honorably and humbly. I take pride in what I do and
>that's a big difference than acting like an obnoxious asshole.
They all took great pride in what they did. In fact, it was their pride that
made them difficult to deal with. They felt entitled to all sorts of things.
I agree, your gallery treated you badly. So you take the work out the minute
it is not being shown properly. Nest time you'll know better. End of story.
>>You must be the second born child, as they tend to mimic their mother'x life
>>script.
>
> Wrong.
Not the first born I bet.
><snips to your blaming my depression on my family's economic state>
>
> All sorts of people from all classes and walks of life kill themselves.
>Why
>don't you pull your head out of your ass?
Duh. But I've known enough rich kids, from palm trees and pools, to know they
have a harder time growing up. They come to expect things to be handed to
them, and often feel like martyrs or victims when it is not. (I was rather
briefly married into a very wealthy Miami Beach family at 19).
I am not killing myself because
>the
>gallery made a compost heap on my painting. I am killing myself because I am
>sick of being in pain and I am tired of trying one thing after another.
>
>Jane
Oh, you're tired of trying. Must not be trying too hard if you're still young.
It took me 10 long years of constant struggle just to quit smoking for crying
out loud. It would seem that if it can't be handed to you on a silver platter,
it's just too much trouble for you to bother with. Earth to Jane, it just
might take a few more tries. But maybe you don't really want to be happy. The
ol' van Gogh complex.
DG
Mani Deli
Art dealers are constantly inundated with requests to look at work by
artists wishing to show. The lucky dealer can then get everything on
consignment with no outlay of money. But there is a hitch. Although
the dealer can find hundreds of artists, he rarely finds any that
really sell well. The few artists who do manage to sell well head for
better galleries. In spite of the inflation of available artists from
which to choose, Few galleries make enough profit in order to last
for any great length of time. Many are fly-by-night operations. Here
today, gone tomorrow.
Because a large over-population of vain artists flock to galleries
offering to consign paintings at essentially no cost to the gallery,
the art business sometimes amounts to little more than theft. I do not
maintain that all galleries are shady or dishonest, but most artists
have had some bad experiences with galleries at one time or other.
Many are so happy to have their work accepted that they fail to get
proper receipts. If any works sell, the gallery can just keep the
proceeds of the sale. Artists frequently have to sue galleries and
more than a few gallery owners have been known to vanish with the
proceeds.
Now and again we see newspaper articles about such scandals. I have
known artists who have had no end of troubles leading to lengthy
costly lawsuits against dealers. I have also known of dealers who
spent most of their time avoiding telephone calls from irate artists
and dodging summons servers.
The root of this trouble often lies with the artists because so many
of them prefer to live in a kind of ethereal dreamland and steadfastly
refuse to learn anything about the business aspect of their
profession. Many are ripe to be fleeced by unscrupulous dealers.
Tired of Modern Art? See-
http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
DNALJM
I was the first and was intended to be the only child, but accidents happen
. . .
>Duh. But I've known enough rich kids, from palm trees and pools, to know
>they
>have a harder time growing up.
And other people who inherit money have a great time like Max Factor's
grandson, and others live quietly and happily. Do you really think that I
would go back in time and say dad, stop working so hard so we can rent a
trailer so some suck in a newsgroup validates my mental illness fifteen years
from now?
What stupid platitude are you going to cough up next? Why don't you just
ask if I'm on the rag? That's next, right?
Someone on my depression support group had ECT three times already. First
you claim these meds work unilaterally well for everyone, then you say ECT can
work if they don't, drugs don't have to make your unborn children stop
developing arms like thalidomide to be dangerous or useless. Drug companies
push drugs on people who don't need them via bribes to doctors in the form of
trips and freebes. Do you really think they're going to go on televsion and
say that they work little better than a placebo like some studies indicate when
they are making billions of dollars off them?
Jane
WoN ereH
>
> I was the first and was intended to be the only child, but accidents
>happen
Well, there are always exceptions. But rebelling against the bonded parent is
another way one identifies with them. In your case, the father. Anyway, I was
just letting you know the general idea. Child placement in the family is
amazingly predictive. Shows how much we are predetermined by such seemingly
superficial things. The more one knows about these tendencies however, the
more one can understand oneself. Maybe can't change it, but at least can
understand the dynamics.
>>Duh. But I've known enough rich kids, from palm trees and pools, to know
>>they
>>have a harder time growing up.
> And other people who inherit money have a great time like Max Factor's
>grandson, and others live quietly and happily.
Are you talking about the Max Factor heir that is in jail for raping hundreds
of women? Hardly a good example of a healthy rich kid. Sure, lots of rich
kids grow up to live happy lives. Usually when they learn to use their money
or lives productively instead of moping around feeling sorry for themselves.
Do you really think that I
>would go back in time and say dad, stop working so hard so we can rent a
>trailer so some suck in a newsgroup validates my mental illness fifteen years
>from now?
Your immaturity is showing. Anyway, why don't we just end this conversation.
Obviously you prefer to defend your situation rather than change it and don't
want a *suck* like me to suggest otherwise.
> What stupid platitude are you going to cough up next? Why don't you just
>ask if I'm on the rag? That's next, right?
>
> Someone on my depression support group had ECT three times already.
>First
>you claim these meds work unilaterally well for everyone,
That's not true, I never said that. You're the one living in a black and white
world, not me.
then you say ECT
>can
>work if they don't, drugs don't have to make your unborn children stop
>developing arms like thalidomide to be dangerous or useless. Drug companies
>push drugs on people who don't need them via bribes to doctors in the form of
>trips and freebes. Do you really think they're going to go on televsion and
>say that they work little better than a placebo like some studies indicate
>when
>they are making billions of dollars off them?
>Jane
Oh please, now you're saying antidepressants don't work? They do. But that
is a good rationalization to avoid them. Either you want your pain and self
pity or you would try everything to get better, including pharmaceuticals. I'm
not a psychiatrist, which is what you obviously need, so I'll just go back to
talking art now. Good luck.
DG
DNALJM
Fine
>Obviously you prefer to defend your situation rather than change it and don't
>want a *suck* like me to suggest otherwise.
I am suggesting that it is unchangable and that your novel and brilliant
solutions which I never would have thought to try <snigger> didn't work for me.
I was hoping that you would consider the fact that some depression, like late
stage cancer, is untreatable and terminal.
>Oh please, now you're saying antidepressants don't work?
They don't work for some people.
> But that
>is a good rationalization to avoid them.
I take them, but if I didn't get them for free I probably wouldn't, since they
don't help.
>I'm
>not a psychiatrist, which is what you obviously need, so I'll just go back to
>talking art now. Good luck.
If you fancy you can talk about artwork like you talk about psychiatry,
biochemistry, and sociology then I'm sure it's a treat you don't want to deny
us any further of. On and incidentally, you may as well not respond or I will
respond in kind. I have to get the last word in because I grew up in a nice
house ten years ago and am selfish.
Jane
Flying _Naked_People
>
> Flying Naked People wrote about clones and aliens.
>
> I guess you're talking about partheogenisis here. Sort of a fun thing
for
> people who say, "why do you only paint yourself?" Plus I was going
through the
> childhood photos. I thought maybe I could do a massive orgy with all the
> participants being me but it seemed like too much work for a joke piece.
Oh my Lord! Now *that* would be... different. I'm not sure if
parthenogenesis is related to alien abductions and hybrid genetics, but if
so, then yes, that's what my mind jumped to when I looked at your pics.
I was going to do something similar with a pic of my sis - 3 portaits of
her in one picture, one as an adult, a child, and a baby... posing as a
family photo, but I never got around to it.
> I just read in Science News that they cloned a horse and the foal was
a
> clone of its mother so that it was identical twins with her. (geez)
This
> happened in Italy and the foal's name is Prometea. And yes, I made a
little
> image of her with a friend of mine looking down at her while being
showered
> with flowers, and wrote "they should clone you, because you are sweet and
> awesome." Apparently things like markings are mutable and migrate in
the womb
> so these are not identical. Her mane is dark and her mother's is white.
>
<raising eyebrow> **Are** you fascinated by cloning??
If so... that's interesting... in your art, you seem to want to "re-create"
yourself over and over and over. Don't get me wrong - I'm aware you lack
models... but still, that's the impression I get. It's a strong statement
you --may-- be making even if subconsciously.
Magazines have people in them you could use as models... but you don't. So one
could look at your work and say that you are purposely choosing to draw
yourself. I think you have an interesting story - beyond what you have posted
thus far.
DNALJM
>parthenogenesis is related to alien abductions and hybrid genetics, but if
>so, then yes, that's what my mind jumped to when I looked at your pics.
It's when a female has offspring without being fertalized by a male, so it
technically is a clone of herself. Mostly insects do it, like dance flies. In
the drawing of myself with the two children the children are actually me, so I
called it that. : }
>I was going to do something similar with a pic of my sis - 3 portaits of
>her in one picture, one as an adult, a child, and a baby... posing as a
>family photo, but I never got around to it.
If you do people will notice right away that it is the same person and not a
close relative, which I thought was kind of interesting.
><raising eyebrow> **Are** you fascinated by cloning??
I think it's pretty facinating. Science news is a great little weekly
magazine that covers a broad range of topics. It's good for scientists who
want an overview or laypeople. They had an unfortunate airbrush artist for a
bit but are back to using photos for the covers.
>Magazines have people in them you could use as models... but you don't.
I do use people in photos from magazines and a bus stops as fillers for
pen drawings but there really isn't enough information thanks to the camera to
do a painting.
>So one
>could look at your work and say that you are purposely choosing to draw
>yourself.
People often do, and often do so critically. But sometimes a potato is just
a potato. One woman said her son talks to me in the painting every morning.
Kind of funny since I can ususally make it through the day without saying more
than two words to anybody.
Flying _Naked_People
> >So one
> >could look at your work and say that you are purposely choosing to draw
> >yourself.
>
> People often do, and often do so critically.
Well, I don't do it critically. Like I said, I *never* heard of an artist
doing this on such a numerous scale, so in my book, you certainly are a first!
I think you should continue - at the very least - it will be recognized, which
is what we all strive for. (Well, *some* of us).