DAN FOX was Attn: PETER NELSON
Kay Kane
Best critique I've ever read. I agree. You have a wonderful gift of not
only *seeing* but of putting it into the perfect explanations. I couldn't
have expressed it half as well, yet when I read this post I said to my self
"Yes, of course, that's what I was trying to say (except for the part about
your life and experience:-)
--
Kay
To reach me remove 'rcd' from my e-mail address
Marilyn Welch wrote in message <373a3...@news.victoria.tc.ca>...
:The Overlord [not mine though]
:>
:wrote:
:>
:>Then go and look at Dan's work in the Full Disclosure posts. This is about
:>as good as it gets with abstraction.
:>
:>The Overlord
:
:That's about as close to a critique as I've seen of the
:digital reproductions of Dan Fox's paintings which lit
:up this newsgroup for a while.
:
:I agree that they are the best paintings I've seen on
:the internet of a contemporary, living painter, not
:yet in the art history books. (thinking of Frankenthaler,
:Deibenkorn etc.)
:
:Although I don't work in the large format, gestural,
:action-abstract expressionist works such as these,
:I've watched people who do work that way. It takes
:courage, ingrained knowledge of composition, colour
:and form. This ingrained knowledge has to be at the
:artist's command, without hesitation in micro-seconds
:as he/she applies the paint. Dan's work shows all
:this courage, knowledge, and command and they are a
:tour de force! Then he makes drawings on top
:of the colour and form which give the paintings
:an intimacy usually lacking in AE.
:
:I have looked at paintings all my
:adult life. Although I've never been overseas,
:I've seen work from the Louvre for example,
:which was brought to Montreal at Expo '67.
:(Also, work in LA, NYC, Seattle, Montreal & Toronto)
:Added to this experience, I have a clear (and yet
:incomplete) view of art history from Lauscaux cave
:paintings to the work of say, modern day Wolf Kahn of NYC.
:I add my background to fend off the usual
:"she doesn't know what she is talking about."
:retorts.
:
:Congratulations Dan on your remarkable 'oeuvre!'
:
:M.
:
:
:
:
:
:
Marilyn Welch
~Artist~
Series
May 12, 1999, Silicon Valley, San Jose, Ca.... Over the last year, I
have been working on a series of paintings called 'Flower Power'.
Today, I added a grouping of columbines to the series as a message
to American Artists and parents world wide to stand up for support
of creativity and the arts in your schools and neighborhoods and
communities. It is apparrent to me that why we are seeing youth in
America today continue to destroy each other is that we are
witnessing the first generation of kids who were raised without the
arts in their schools.
The fad for cutting the arts from schools has appeared to have
caught up with us in a very destructive trend of killings and suicides
as a release of frustration. Cutting of the arts has become a grave
and destructive mistake and our youth are paying for it in many
ways and even with their lives.
It is important for people to understand that when the arts were
removed from schools that what was removed was a venue for
understanding differences. When they cut the music programs they
removed a venue for developing achievement. When they removed
the dance and drawing classes they removed a mode of
communication that consistently allowed the arts to give a venue
and a way to support differences in everyone and allowed an
avenue for improvement of self esteem for young people.
The arts are of great importance to the cultural fabric of developed
countries and as we see a decline of the arts we see a decline of the
culture in total. Just like the romans verses the greeks in art
history. Today the demise of the arts can be translated to what we
are experiencing in the shootings of young people like in America
or suicides of youth in Japan. It is important that the arts be
employed at very heightened levels in our societies and cultures in
order to seek improvement and healing of the individual.
Heightened attention to coursework in the arts in schools around
America and elsewhere will allow people to understantd
themselves, will allow them to grow, develop, heal and improve in
areas where science and sports do not reach. Heightened support
of the arts will allow young people and communities to reach into
their souls, it will give them places to succeed in ways they would
never have tapped without the christening of a mural, without the
applause after performance. The arts allows the ability for kids to
dance at the sea and feel comfortable in simply expressing joys or
sorrows in forms that words cannot.
Just like the columbine in a series of paintings as a mark in time, the
ability to express feelings in ways that connect us without words
has geat value. The arts ability to empower thought that can
inspire others can build self esteem through symbolism and
symbolism is a powerful tool for leadership. This type of thinking
and communicating is learned through the arts.
By requiring the arts in the neighborhoods and in your childrens
lives you will be giving these kids a place to create, a place to grow
strong, a place to vent, a place to understand themselves, a place
to understand each other and a place to celebrate differences. By
allowing the arts in schools you will at the same time be allowing
the kids to develop key and important differences in themselves
that can also aid the development of strong self images and their
ability to understand the differences in others.
As it appears today, your kids lives quite well may depend on it. It
is important to demand that freedom of expression and arts
programs be added back into the National Education programming
for American kids and teens.
As I think back to my school years in a place just like Columbine
High School I can still remember the first and last names of jocs
who picked on the nerds. I remember as an artist at that school
how I hated seeing people treat each other that way.
I can remember how happy I was that my family valued creativity
enough to let me mature in mine as a place to escape and develop
on my own. I can remember that they allowed me to use the arts to
become an individual that valued my own differences and used
them as strengths to value other differences and strenghts for me
to succeed. I remember thinking how sorry I felt for the kids whos
parents did not allow the arts or did not value the arts they seemed
to have been missing so much.
Today, I wonder if all those kids at Columbine High might have
developed better images of themselves and their peers had they
been cultivated more each in their own creativity and freedom of
expression through the arts? I wonder had they had more
opportunities in the arts in their early years that they might have
understood differences of others and learned to be more tolerant of
those differences? I wonder had they had more exposure to the arts
and various dimensions of differences might they still be alive
today?
Artists know how understanding artwork adds to understanding
self. Artists know that through understanding you learn to accept
cultural differences by being different yourself. Artists learn that by
being different you are ok and you learn to tolerate more in
yourselves and in others. Artists learn all this through the arts and
artists bring much to the world through diverse thought and
questioning and sharing of ideas. All the things those parents at
columbine wish now that they could have shared with their kids to
understand what was really going on behind that tradgey but it is
now to late to ask.
The columbine blossom is now added to the 'Flower Power' series.
That series of paintings was concieved from a poetic dimension of
life which included personal and global tradgies, leadership,
moments, color, love and a positive wish for the future.
I think we would all agree that is what 'Flower Power' is about. I
think we would all agree that the columbine belongs in that flower
series as a symboic reminder that we all need to address the
symbolism of the flower power meanings through the arts. I think
we all need to pray that it is not to late to reach a generation of
kids. I think we need to recognize that the arts can teach the kids
that peace, love and creativity are important values that can be
cultivated through differences and revered in ourselves and others
throught the arts and we can teach them through the arts that care
matters.
Mattison Fitzgerald
Artist
http://www.rhinodevcom/M
matt...@att.net
~Artist~
through the arts and we can teach them through the arts that care
kat...@dnai.com
>Artist Mattison Fitzgerald adds Columbines to 'Flower Power'
>Series
>May 12, 1999, Silicon Valley, San Jose, Ca.... Over the last year, I
>have been working on a series of paintings called 'Flower Power'.
....about 30 years too late.
>Today, I added a grouping of columbines to the series as a message
>to American Artists
....that no bandwagon is too tragic for Mattison to jump on and toot
her own bullhorn.
>All the things those parents at columbine wish now that they
>could have shared with their kids to understand what was really
>going on behind that tradgey
The only "tradgey" (sic) here is the depths to which some will sink to
hype themselves.
I believe art for children is a powerful force for good. I contribute
to non-profit organizations to support art performances and activities
for children and the disenfranchised.
I feel a lot better, knowing my money is going directly to support
these performances and acitivites, than I would feel about lining the
pockets of a so-called "artist" who could barely wait a month to take
this cheap shot.
Good work doesn't need hype. Conversely, work that needs to be hyped
usually isn't very good.
Kathy
Dan Fox
Thanks very much. I see a lot of commentary on my work in the press, etc.,
but seldom get such intelligent analysis, pro or con.
Regards,
Dan
>
> I agree that they are the best paintings I've seen on
> the internet of a contemporary, living painter, not
> yet in the art history books. (thinking of Frankenthaler,
> Deibenkorn etc.)
>
<snip for server limitation>
Marilyn
>
> Marilyn
> Best critique I've ever read. I agree. You have a wonderful gift of not
> only *seeing* but of putting it into the perfect explanations. I couldn't
> have expressed it half as well, yet when I read this post I said to my self
> "Yes, of course, that's what I was trying to say (except for the part about
> your life and experience:-)
> --
> Kay
Thanks Kay, I wanted to go on & on,
but then someone would say he paid
me to say it.
cynically yours,
Marilyn
Mattison
: ~Artist~ <matt...@att.net> wrote:
: >Artist Mattison Fitzgerald adds Columbines to 'Flower Power'
: >Series
:
: >May 12, 1999, Silicon Valley, San Jose, Ca.... Over the last year, I
: >have been working on a series of paintings called 'Flower Power'.
: ....about 30 years too late.
Really ?
Were you in the City then? I was.
: >Today, I added a grouping of columbines to the series as a message
: >to American Artists
: ....that no bandwagon is too tragic for Mattison to jump on and toot
: her own bullhorn.
I was asked by a prestegious art newsletter to write this article and I
spent a week in Santa Fe dceiding if I would do it or not.
Then I thought about all those nerds that got abused in my highschool so
I wrote it for them.
I posted here because I know that the art geeks would enjoy the thought
process.
What risks have you taken of late ?
or Are you just like those kids who do the abusing and reacting rather
than proacting?
No guts no glory.
: >All the things
those parents at columbine wish now that
they : >could have shared with their kids to understand what was really
: >going on behind that tradgey
: The only "tradgey" (sic) here is the depths to which some will sink to
: hype themselves.
Reread above.
I did not want to write this article but unlike you I manage to get out
of myself for higher purposes. I think you best give it a try.
: I believe art for children is a powerful force for good. I contribute
: to non-profit organizations to support art performances and activities
: for children and the disenfranchised.
Oh really.
: I feel a lot better, knowing my money is going directly to support
: these performances and acitivites, than I would feel about lining the
: pockets of a so-called "artist" who could barely wait a month to take
: this cheap shot.
Whatever - best do your research before you bark. You know nothing about
the art world or art funding or anything I wrote in the article.
Your ignorance is bliss and are your kids safe ? Taking cheap shots like
your expamples ?
: Good work doesn't need hype. Conversely, work that needs to be hyped
: usually isn't very good.
Answering a request for honest communication on a topic the entire nation
is trying to understand from a perspective not one person has yet to
realize is far from hype.
: Kathy
Catty.
"Get out of my way" cro...@hotmail.com
Mattison Fitzgerald
Artist
~Artist~
It apperas the Columbine article is now going to Japan too...the
TIME equivilant journal for art there is going to publish this. I guess
some people get that by valuing others you value yourself.
Art is in!
Mattison
kat...@dnai.com
>kat...@dnai.com wrote:
>: ....about 30 years too late.
>Were you in the City then? I was.
And you must have been about 5 years old. A little too young to be
"on the bus".
>: ....that no bandwagon is too tragic for Mattison to jump on and toot
>: her own bullhorn.
>
>I was asked by a prestegious art newsletter to write this article and I
>spent a week in Santa Fe dceiding if I would do it or not.
Mattison, all you care about is prestige and your so-called "image".
I can only imagine what your week at your Fortress of Solitude in
Santa Fe must have been like, making the heavy decision to try and
cash in on an terrible tragedy.
>I posted here because I know that the art geeks would enjoy the thought
>process.
The only "thought process" you seem to engage in is rabid
self-promotion.
>What risks have you taken of late ? or Are you just like those kids
>who do the abusing and reacting rather than proacting?
You don't know anything about me and the risks I take. And if you
think that making dull, uninteresting "art", then hyping it with
blather that exploits a horrible crime, constitutes "risk", then you
are even more out of touch with reality than I thought you were.
Sounds like you are the one abusing and reacting here.
>I did not want to write this article
Oh, bullshit, you probably creamed at the very thought of another
opportunity for self-promotion.
> but unlike you I manage to get out
>of myself for higher purposes. I think you best give it a try.
The only "higher purpose" you have in this cheap shot to try and hype
"Mattison Fitzgerald, Artist" is to try and line your pockets with
ill-gotten dough out of a national tragedy.
>: I believe art for children is a powerful force for good. I contribute
>: to non-profit organizations to support art performances and activities
>: for children and the disenfranchised.
>
>Oh really.
Yes, really. Not that my tax return is any of your business.
>: I feel a lot better, knowing my money is going directly to support
>: these performances and acitivites, than I would feel about lining the
>: pockets of a so-called "artist" who could barely wait a month to take
>: this cheap shot.
>
>Whatever - best do your research before you bark. You know nothing about
>the art world or art funding or anything I wrote in the article.
When confronted with the truth, she-of-many-blathering-words can come
up with nothing better than "Whatever".
I fail to understand how you can state with such assurance that I
don't know anything about the art world. On the other hand, it's
painfully obvious that you know nothing about the art world. Expert
in trying to market vacuous crapola as art, maybe.
>: Good work doesn't need hype. Conversely, work that needs to be hyped
>: usually isn't very good.
>
>Answering a request for honest communication on a topic the entire nation
>is trying to understand from a perspective not one person has yet to
>realize is far from hype.
Out of 2 billion people, only **YOU** have considered that arts for
children can help self-esteem? Your overwrought delusions of
self-importance are really getting out of hand.
If your work is so great, how come you can't seem to get an exhibit at
any respected art venue in the Bay Area? I keep looking, but the only
shows of yours I ever hear about are the ones you self-promote on
Usenet. Now showing at the local pool hall...
>Artist
You forgot "Bullshit".
Kathy
~Artist~
> >kat...@dnai.com wrote:
>
> >: ....about 30 years too late.
>
> >Were you in the City then? I was.
>
> And you must have been about 5 years old. A little too young to be
> "on the bus".
>
Yes, but old enough to see they were picking the same flowers from
the grass in GGPark that I was and I thought those old people are
finally getting it.
good
The bus ? They used to park it up the street from our peninsual home
on Alameda De Las Pulgas. What do you want to know about the bus
from someone who was exposed to it for years ?
What affect the colors had aon a 6 year old ? or a 9 year old who's
father was first to bail the kids out of Santa Rita Prison after the first
ritos in Berkeley? When no one let anyone know the kids were in
prison? I would have to say it was a symbol of Freedom Artistic
Expression and Freedom. Just like my article.
The Cassidys ? Carolyne - On the Road Fame --- she is a personal
friend so is her son JC.
The Dead ? What do you know about Awalt High in '66?
I can tell you.
The closing of Winterland ? I was there. What do you want to know?
> >: ....that no bandwagon is too tragic for Mattison to jump on and toot
You will find me speaking up for the things I give a damn about
which is more that I can say for your life and the more you try to get
in my way the more I will speak up.
Yin & Yang
La Ti Da!
> > but unlike you I manage to get out
> >of myself for higher purposes. I think you best give it a try.
>
> The only "higher purpose" you have in this cheap shot to try and hype
> "Mattison Fitzgerald, Artist" is to try and line your pockets with
> ill-gotten dough out of a national tragedy.
Until someone contacted me I was not listening to the story at all. I
do not do news or tv or newspapers very often. I seemed to be
exposed to papers when I am in an airport traveling for my art.
We just returned from an art venture in San Diego so I was made
aware of the incident then on the airplane. I still did nothing I have
other things I am working on. Then, someone from an art journal
approached me for the article over the net. I could not believe when
she asked, my first thought was why me ?
Why do they want me to write it?
So I called my extremely smart and hellcat mother to ask her if I
should do it.
She said they asked you to do it because you are respected in the
community and your career is moving and because most likely you
will come up with a different perspective. She said it was important
that I do it and that being a leader and seeing differently is not easy
and that she felt I would give a balanced understandable answer and
that I should step up to the plate ...that is what the Fitzgerald Clan
does and that the country will expect it from them and they are used
to Fitzgerald speaking up...just like Rose Fitzzgerald Kennedy.
She also said that people are hurting from this in many places and
that people cannot see how kids in one generation will save the
whales and the next they will kill each other. She also said that you
can help them see and by giving a new perspective and you might
think of something they did not.
Then, I had long discussions with my assistant to told me NOT to
write it.
Then, I read a couple more articles on the subject in the Santa Fe
papers and attended an opening in Santa Fe at the Teen Art Center.
Studio 21 where I bought art from a young artist Andrea Lechner
who was having her first one woman show. Which btw was very
good. I went there to see the work and to cheer a young woman on
and to give her information on my carreer where I purposely put
stepping stones in the articles of ideas that younger artists or any
artists could emulate to follow and have the luck I am having. Quite
franly, it blew here away, her chin hit her chest and she nearly
jumped out of her skin when I gave her all the letters from the White
House and the Color Magazine Cover and when I told her to keep
going and to not to forget to spill the paint. My only regret was that
I could not have stayed the entire reception.
It was after meeting 17 year old Lechner and seeing her friends, see
her in a different perspective, at the reception, with her art and
seeing them open up to her and her intense and wild differences and
her openess to her feelings that I thought --- I might have to write
the story.
I originally was just going to delete the message and say nothing.
Then in Santa Fe a friend bought the NY Time and got me an extra
copy, I read it on the plane to Vegas and I saw them inviting the
NRA and Hollywood to give solutions. That I felt was totally missing
the boat and it was obviously not getting to the root of the problem.
Then I was thinking about the letter I gave Ms. Tipper Gore a few
weeks before. The letter was reguarding San Joses need for funding
for the Culture Corps and start up grants to develop a program for
inner city youth to express themsleves through art. I had written the
CC into the SJ City Cultural Plan two years ago and have been
working to get them to bring it to the surface to help the art risk
neighborhood I live in.
It all seemed to fit together as an offereed solution to a problem so I
decided I would take the risks and write the letter.
I cannot understand whay they have the NRA and Hollywood there
other than cash cows. I cannot understand whey they did not invite
the artists and the teen center directors, we are the ones on the
streets with the kids. Not the NRA or Hollywood Directors.
Another reason whey I decided to write the article, my solution was
far better, more direct and to the point.
> >: I believe art for children is a powerful force for good. I contribute
> >: to non-profit organizations to support art performances and activities
> >: for children and the disenfranchised.
I highly doubt it you gave a dime.
>
> >: Good work doesn't need hype. Conversely, work that needs to be hyped
> >: usually isn't very good.
Is that why someone from the top Gallery in Santa Fe at their huge
private opening of a 30,000 sf building last summer took me aside the
minute I got there and said "Let me say one thing. self promote self
promote self promote...they all did it Hockney, Warhol, Holzer,
O'keefe...you have to do it!...now enough business and let have some
fun!"
It totally shocked me and on the other hand I though I am still
continue like I have since I was a kid and quit a graphichs firm at 17
in Los Altos with my own convictions...we were drawing bombs and I
said once I figured it out "no way they are all selling out in this valley
and I won't ....the guy says "you can make alot of money at this!!!!"
and I said "Yeah! BUT! I can't live with myself!!! Drawing things that
kill people!!" and I quit. I had no idea when I was hired for graphics
that what they were drawing was a bunch of bombs and murder
devices. Others can do it I cannot especially on top of the crippiling
of the local economics that comes from defense.
I will always keep to my convictions in my life and career and you
best get out of the way because your so called self promotion is
simple conviciton and busines to me. I will in time run you over with
it. You will die a miserable old woman and I will die a satisfied old
woman who kept to her convictions.
Like I said
"GET OUT OF MY WAY!" cro...@hotmail.com
> any respected art venue in the Bay Area?
Los Gatos Arts Comission is quite respected.
I have not solicited the others. We are working on international
projects in Italy, France and Japan and I feel that close to home I
would rather show close to the street eg. billiards halls, laundry
mats, cafes, chairity events, bingo halls, kids performances etc. I
have been invited to show with Ronnie Lotts club a health club! They
were kinda scared to ask and I said "Hell Yeah! I love showing
everywhere they do not expcet it!@ Cool ... lets do it! You stuff is
abourt health and mine is about healing I think it works!"
My feeling is that this valley is such a culturally illiterate desert that
artists must show close to the street to promote the seen. It is great
for marketing you get 5 people in most galleries a day and 500 in a
billiard hall. Basic business and I love it so did Coach Parks - You
know 9'ers, he happend to dig my art too. At one Celebrity Reception
I did with him he had me pulled away from clients to find out who
the Artist was and where the great art came from.
Coach Parks and I share the love of fly casting together it turns out
and Mike McCormick a friend who won the PYoung Award was also
a common friend among others like Mark Larwood another giver
and local philanthropist and community activist on the penninusla.
>Simple at that on one hand
>I keep looking, but the only
> shows of yours I ever hear about are the ones you self-promote on
> Usenet. Now showing at the local pool hall...
Yes, the owners of those halls are greart patrons of mine too. We
have a wonderful relationship. Every time they open a hall they
invite me to christen the new one with a show.
They feel I am the top artist in the Bay Area they want to promote my
work and they feel it classes up their clubs and works for all. They
like the leadership that goes out from the walls and encourages other
artists in the neighborhood. We all have very community related
concerns in the SoFa district. That is why we work differently than
the mainstream here we feel the community needs it and we are
taking risks doing things differently. Besides it is a far better and
bigger galleries than most where I live and the undergound is where
the art comes from until it is mainstream.
Then like the rest you eventually drop out and paint you life away.
Ask Nathan Olivera from Stanford if you don't belive me or if you
can get him to answer ... he is so dropped out he never answers he
doesn't have to unlesshe really mean it anymore. Just like O'keefe
was...they only get back when they mean it.
Have you seen lately in my portfolio is a letter from Nathan to me ?
It says "you are way ahead of the other artists." In out of art world
terms for the lay people is is like Willie Mays saying "you can hit!
kid". With that letter he is handing down the San Fransisco School I
suspect cause he likes the work and feels I can do it and knows I am a
San Fransiscan and that I give a damn. If you ever meet him ask him
about the day he and Manuel Neri and I rocked the San Jose
Museum of Art for the kids, better quality of life and the art. Nate
pulled me aside that day when people were asking him and even me
for autographs ... and said "You Are Right!".
Thanks Nate for the encouragement and I will try to carry on the
traditions like you in the studio!
Get out of my way! cro...@hotmail.com
Mattison Fitzgerald
Artist
js...@juno.com
Artists Respond to Papal Letter
ROME, MAY 12 (ZENIT).- On April 23, John Paul II surprised everyone by
publishing a "Letter to Artists." At a time when the world is living the
drama of war, the Pope calls attention to the need to recover the
contribution artists can make to our society (beyond the strictly
commercial); he also acknowledged the Church's need for art.
Many internationally known artists have responded to the Pontiff's
proposal.
Italian film actress Claudia Cardinale, for example, said: "The Pope is
close to artists and has always been; he has written plays, poems but,
above
all, he has always thought of artists as instruments to inspire
important
emotions. He has never been prejudiced or distant; from the beginning he
has
wanted to be surrounded by artists and, when you meet him, you realize
he
listens with genuine interest."
Claudia Cardinale said that today actors are models for people, "they
identify with us, in a certain sense, we are a dream" for people and, as
a
result, we can "help them to think about other dimensions," and "the
Pope
reminds us of this responsibility."
"You cannot elicit wonder and move people if your are not experiencing
the
interior emotion. To be able to transmit emotions, one must look in the
mirror of one's interior," the actress said.
According to painter Michel Pochet, beauty "is strong and intrepid,
courageous and patient, and does not allow itself to be trampled or
prostituted." He agrees with the Pope that beauty has the special task
of
leading men to the good and the truth.
"The door to truth opens with difficulty to contemporary men, because
they
have an innate sense of skepticism. To reach God through the door of
good
is more difficult than before. A perfect God makes us lose hope, and a
real
God surpasses us. But if we enter through the door of beauty, all
resistance crumbles. Beauty is the door which takes contemporary man to
God. Without artists, this door remains closed."
In an interview with the daily 'Avvenire,' orchestra director Carlo
Maria
Giulini acknowledged that the beauty the Pope speaks of "surpasses the
ecstasy of feelings." For him, it is a process which has the following
stages: "first comes faith, then love and, finally, art."
He explains it from personal experience. "We, musicians, must deal with
black, lifeless ink spots, written on paper by great geniuses. Their
instructions are not enough to interpret them. At times, an 'allegro' is
the
most dramatic moment an artist can convey. Consequently, to be involved
in
music carries an enormous responsibility but, above all, it is an act of
love."
The director distinguishes between playing instruments and making music.
"To
play you need hands and a brain. To make music you need hands, a brain,
and
a soul. To live without the gift of faith is unimaginable, it is like
living
in darkness. What else can there be in man's life? To speak through
prayer
and to live before a Being who loves us, who listens to us, this is
everything. I don't know if we can undertake the task the Pope
describes,
but I know that in great music there is nothing evil, nothing that goes
against the human being."
ZE99051202
Kennon Baird
Mattison, you are a self-absorbed, self-aggrandizing boor.
Your trite paintings are suitable only as filler for corporate
corridors.
Dry up.
KB
~Artist~
Where the HELL Have You BEEN????
WE HAVE been WAiting!
js...@juno.com wrote:
>
> DESIRE FOR BEAUTY WILL SAVE WORLD
Duh.
> Artists Respond to Papal Letter
>
> ROME, MAY 12 (ZENIT).- On April 23, John Paul II surprised everyone by
> publishing a "Letter to Artists." At a time when the world is living the
> drama of war, the Pope calls attention to the need to recover the
ROCK N Flower Power in my Studio ...you are welcome to ship it
round the planet.
> contribution artists can make to our society (beyond the strictly
> commercial); he also acknowledged the Church's need for art.
Send checks they all sure as hell need the support!
>
> Many internationally known artists have responded to the Pontiff's
> proposal.
I bet most are starving and it is about time they supported the givers
on the planet for once in a Millennium.
>
> Italian film actress Claudia Cardinale, for example, said: "The Pope is
> close to artists and has always been; he has written plays, poems but,
> above
You can send a check here too I know at least 10 starving artists who
can use it.
> all, he has always thought of artists as instruments to inspire
> important
> emotions. He has never been prejudiced or distant; from the beginning he
> has
> wanted to be surrounded by artists and, when you meet him, you realize
> he
> listens with genuine interest."
Best to listen with genuine support in the form of checks!
What is the fax number there ? At the Papal Palace ?
>
> Claudia Cardinale said that today actors are models for people, "they
> identify with us, in a certain sense, we are a dream" for people and, as
> a
> result, we can "help them to think about other dimensions," and "the
> Pope
> reminds us of this responsibility."
Painters are better than that I guarantee.
>
> "You cannot elicit wonder and move people if your are not experiencing
> the
> interior emotion. To be able to transmit emotions, one must look in the
> mirror of one's interior," the actress said.
I say LETS ROCK!
Graffitti The Palace...put your paint can where your ring is!
>
> According to painter Michel Pochet, beauty "is strong and intrepid,
> courageous and patient, and does not allow itself to be trampled or
> prostituted." He agrees with the Pope that beauty has the special
Oh Baloney.
task
> of
> leading men to the good and the truth.
Take a Risk.
>
> "The door to truth opens with difficulty to contemporary men, because
> they
> have an innate sense of skepticism. To reach God through the door of
> good
> is more difficult than before. A perfect God makes us lose hope, and a
> real
> God surpasses us. But if we enter through the door of beauty, all
Like I said Raock n Roll Popie!
> resistance crumbles. Beauty is the door which takes contemporary man to
> God. Without artists, this door remains closed."
So lets see ya get down and dirty on the street and rock n roll...
graffitti that door....I did my kitchen and it is great...the piece is so
good the holy spirit even visited me through it ....
Now there's one for ya! The holy spirit likes Graffitti...no lies there...
damn bitchn I'd say....
spray on man
Peace b with u!
>
> In an interview with the daily 'Avvenire,' orchestra director Carlo
> Maria
> Giulini acknowledged that the beauty the Pope speaks of "surpasses the
> ecstasy of feelings." For him, it is a process which has the following
No it is the other way around.
> stages: "first comes faith, then love and, finally, art."
Art Love Faith.
>
> He explains it from personal experience. "We, musicians, must deal with
> black, lifeless ink spots, written on paper by great geniuses. Their
> instructions are not enough to interpret them. At times, an 'allegro' is
> the
> most dramatic moment an artist can convey. Consequently, to be involved
> in
> music carries an enormous responsibility but, above all, it is an act of
> love."
I think John Lennon said that too.
>
> The director distinguishes between playing instruments and making music.
> "To
> play you need hands and a brain. To make music you need hands, a brain,
> and
> a soul. To live without the gift of faith is unimaginable, it is like
> living
> in darkness. What else can there be in man's life? To speak through
Most of the planet does so you better get used to it.
Just think, Mattiso and the Pope bitching about art the same week.
Get that Billy Boys ?
No wonder we are all in Who's Who in the World all in the same
damn millennial year.
LOL 2 FUNNY!
> prayer
> and to live before a Being who loves us, who listens to us, this is
> everything. I don't know if we can undertake the task the Pope
> describes,
> but I know that in great music there is nothing evil, nothing that goes
> against the human being."
> ZE99051202
Like I said !!!
Lets ROCK N ROLL!!!
So when are you scheduling the Kosovo Sotck?
Yeah POPIE!!!!
Mattison Fitzgerald
Artist
http://www.rhinodev.com/M
TM
Where can i get this "prestigeous" newsletter that you wrote the article for?
what's it called? I want
to get a copy so i can be inspired!! And what is the TIME equivalent of
Japanese art journal that
you mentioned? And where do i get a copy of that? I want to collect your
articles in real journals
cause i'm your biggest fan!!!
T
~Artist~
>
> Wow! When I grow up, i want to be just like you!!!
Rule 1.
Never Grow up.
2.
Question Authority
3.
Get out of my way = cro...@hotmail.com
4.
Paint your petudies off
5.
Laugh at all politicians
6.
Mess with them cause you can
7.
Listen to your mother
8.
Give a damn when not giving a damn
9.
Go on vacation whenever you can
10.
Laugh
>
> Where can i get this "prestigeous" newsletter that you wrote the article for?
Not sure if they put it on the web.
> what's it called? I want
> to get a copy so i can be inspired!! And what is the TIME equivalent of
> Japanese art journal that
If you look on my site you will see an excerpt from one article there.
The journal is 50 American Dollars roughly in Tokyo. The biggest
publishing company in Japan publishes it. I am sure you can reAd the
conji
> you mentioned? And where do i get a copy of that? I want to collect your
> articles in real journals
> cause i'm your biggest fan!!!
Good idea ...
honey they will definately be worth more than that beemer you are
driving in 7 year or so...
LOL
Later
M
kat...@dnai.com
>You will find me speaking up for the things I give a damn about
Yeah, me too. Like self-aggrandizing manipulative users who try to
pass themselves off as "artists". Especially the ones who have no
conscience, and will stoop to merchandising human tragedy for their
own personal gain.
Art is important to me, and I resent talentless hacks who need to
constantly explain, at great length, their every brain fart. Seems
like the more phony the "art", the longer the explanation.
Evidently it hasn't occurred to you yet that the *art* is what is
supposed to speak.
>which is more that I can say for your life
Gee, another "talent", predicting the future. Why don't you start a
psychic phone hotline?
> they are used to Fitzgerald speaking up...just like
>Rose Fitzzgerald Kennedy.
Rose was ultimately a sad, pitiful woman, who was deterred from her
own desires and goals in life by her autocratic father, cheated on by
her womanizing husband, and after a too-long life beset in the end by
senility, eventually died a bitter, unfulfilled, and disappointed
woman. Her evident main contribution to her sons was passing on the
expectation that their wives too would turn their heads, and
ignore/accept their tomcatting around like their Dad did.
Are you sure you meant to make this comparison?
> to help the art risk neighborhood I live in.
This is possibly the funniest unintentional typo you've ever made.
>> >: I believe art for children is a powerful force for good. I contribute
>> >: to non-profit organizations to support art performances and activities
>> >: for children and the disenfranchised.
>
>I highly doubt it you gave a dime.
This is the second time you've challenged the fact that I make
donations to non-profit art organizations. Aren't you the one who's
always screaming about the alleged lack of philanthrophy in the Bay
Area?
I guess because my donations weren't made payable to "Mattison
Fitzgerald, Artist", they don't qualify in your phony little
logrolling "art" world.
>I had no idea when I was hired for graphics
>that what they were drawing was a bunch of bombs and murder
>devices.
Where the hell were you working? Soldier of Fortune magazine??
>I will always keep to my convictions in my life and career and you
>best get out of the way because your so called self promotion is
>simple conviciton and busines to me.
Successful businesses sell fine products that people want and need.
Then there are the sleazy businesses that hype inferior and/or
unneeded products. Your posts to Usenet are nothing but illiterate
infomercials, and you are the Ron Popeil of the "art" world.
> I will in time run you over with it.
Tell me what you drive so I can look out for you on 880. Do you have
a magnetic door sign with "Mattison Fitzgerald, Artist" on it?
>You will die a miserable old woman
Call 1-900-MATT-ART now! Psychic Artists are waiting to take your
call! All major credit cards accepted!
>Have you seen lately in my portfolio is a letter from Nathan (Oliveira) to me?
Nathan lucked out and was in the right place at the right time. But
was it the right time? A classic example of "too much, too soon".
Fortunately for the art world, I don't think you will ever have to
struggle with this particular demon.
Kathy
~Artist~
No one can mistake your shrew like attitude.
Dave Berg! I know he is your favorite man and these are you most
favorite words on the planet...
LOL
La Ti Da!
LOL
Gald you are such a great fan CLB. You have been trying to engage
me for 4 years now and you look like an idiot. I threw you a few
crumbs of intellect to feed off.
LOL
God you must be loving it after four years in starvation.
LOL
I think it was Hutto who kicked you out of this group last time lyou
were harrassing me.
Now you are back and too afarid to post under your regualr sig
because they threw you out of this group 3 times before that for the
same problem.
God you really do have no life don't you?
LOL
Now you are back shrew like as ever and you wonder why you are
stil single in ba.singles ?
gigglzzz
Thanks for keeping my living myth alive...you know I love the
attention....it is great for the press is press!
Please try to say someting in the next 4 years that might be intelligent
so I can respond. You have to wait oh so long.
Later.
Mattison
Bryn_Ayers
dan...@erols.com(Dan Fox) wrote:
> Marilyn -
>
> Thanks very much. I see a lot of commentary on my work in the press,
etc.,
> but seldom get such intelligent analysis, pro or con.
The analysis follows:
> > I agree that they are the best paintings I've seen on
> > the internet of a contemporary, living painter, not
> > yet in the art history books.
Is it intelligent because it is flattery? If I say your work stinks
you of course will not write in response that it is intelligent
to say such a thing. Obviously,
I noticed Peter never responded in this thread; and it might be
meaningful to post what the URL is in this case, since we seem
to be discussing web-art.
A detransposition;
Purely Cendant!
> >(thinking of Frankenthaler,
> > Deibenkorn etc.)
Don't forget yourself, most work I've seen posted on the
internet is on par with Frankenthaler., Who knows someday
you may flatter the right person... Until then Ciao!
> <snip for server limitation>
> > Congratulations Dan on your remarkable 'oeuvre!'
> > M.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"O senseless man, who cannot possibly make a worm and yet will make
Gods by the dozen!" -- Michel de Montaigne (1533-92).
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
TM
want to do MORE
than just read an excerpt, i want a copy of the issue. It MUST be available
somewhere, no? And
what is the NAME of the editor (?) who approached you with this project? I want to
contact him/her
and congratulate him/her on his/her choosing you to do this. Simply brilliant!!
And what is the NAME of the "biggest publishing company in Japan" that publishes
the TIME equivalent
of Japanese art journal? and could you please please tell me what the NAME of the
journal is??
Getting japanese publications from Tokyo is not a problem, but i need the NAME!!
Thank you in advance,
TM
Marcus Bramble
> In article <19990513102301.377$6a...@newsreader.com>,
[Dan Fox:]
> > Thanks very much. I see a lot of commentary on my work in the press,
> etc.,
> > but seldom get such intelligent analysis, pro or con.
[Bryn_Ayres:]
> The analysis follows:
[Marilyn:]
> > > I agree that they are the best paintings I've seen on
> > > the internet of a contemporary, living painter, not
> > > yet in the art history books.
[Bryn_Ayres:]
> Is it intelligent because it is flattery? If I say your work stinks
> you of course will not write in response that it is intelligent
> to say such a thing.
No, Bryn, you kept the flattery part of the post and cut Marilyn's
discussion of the work and why she liked it.
Marcus
~Artist~
>
> Yes, yes, but what is the NAME of this prestigeous journal? Who publishes it? I
> want to do MORE
> than just read an excerpt, i want a copy of the issue. It MUST be available
> somewhere, no?
HOLD YOUR KITT.Ez HONEY!!!
ggglz
blussssssh
sssssh
all this attention....
U have redthewoods....
I will let you know when it is in print.
You will have to subscribe I think it runs 35 - 45.00 annual
And
> what is the NAME of the editor (?) who approached you with this project? I want to
> contact him/her
> and congratulate him/her on his/her choosing you to do this.
Simply brilliant!!
Why dear do you think that ?
I thought it a little nuts and emotionally schorching to put someone
through actually. Did not think I was up for the cahllenge if you
knew what I had to deal with last year....health care accidents cons
in the art murders on the block alcholic neighbors getting out of
hand...Ghettos man I tell you....more challenging than any green
spiders.
Thank you love for wanting to find out about the articles.
I thougth it simply left field but ... often those left field hitters are the
ones who win the game....and fielders in that matters.
>
> And what is the NAME of the "biggest publishing company in Japan" that publishes
> the TIME equivalent
> of Japanese art journal? and could you please please tell me what the NAME of the
> journal is??
I will let you know in due time when it is published, it is a quaterly.
Really wonderful actually makes American Art magazine look like
shanites really...you must know Japanese printing standards...
They have published me many times before the first time right on
page 17 next to Picasso and Matisse! ...Guilty by association after
awhile...and in the same Journal a half page...all of my painting on
the 50th Anniversary of Hiroshima....no lie! I was amazed and
shocked cause we did not know that was going on...or the time they
put me on the damn cover of that art magazine...all an accident like
most of it ...but what the hell...giggles...I am game for a wee bit of
fun and well painting aint quite that bad...oh yeah ....did you see the
film too ?????giggles we mess round with a wee bit of film and the
stuff ends up at the Cannes Film Festival ...1st on ever on the nert
from there....wild eh ? Hell my head is spinning I just laugh lots....
and get with the casues cause I love madness with a mission or is
that mattness ?
LOL
1111
Go look at the press section on my site.
We listed some of the old articles there I believe...haven't looked at
the site in so long hard to keep track onf the press.
We are also working with an annual paper American paper in the
west and Nor Cal and several quaterlies on other things.
> Getting japanese publications from Tokyo is not a problem, but i need the NAME!!
>
Will post it in time...let the presses run first.
> Thank you in advance,
Tell us more about lyou 222!
Mattison
~Artist~
~Artist~
Hold your Kitt.Ez!!
I must be spoiling you I never post this much or often...must be casue
this spring was less hectic as I passed on open studios...
If you come to Silly Icon I would be glad to show you the press
though
or
You can go to 420 So. 1st Street and see the stuff on the wall there.
2 pieces are spoken for I just have not taken time to mark them yet.
care
matters
Mattison
Terry Miura
TM
~Artist~
I will post the announcement as soon as it arrives in my snail mail.
You read the article it is posted in the group....journal will be the
same.
Mattison
kat...@dnai.com
>Charoltte Blackmer -
>No one can mistake your shrew like attitude.
>Dave Berg! I know he is your favorite man and these are you most
>favorite words on the planet...
Mattison, you need help. I'm serious.
You keep having these crazy delusions that I am some other person. We
went through this last year, remember?
How about a flashback from last October?
Posted to ba.general,ba.motss,rec.arts.fine,alt.artcom
mat...@netcom.com (Mattison) wrote:
> Actually the only negative one in the bunch is Kathy - CLB and she has
> to take a different sig because she knows I do not follow up her
> destructive lifstyle and dysfunctinal patterns. She also thinks I would
> answer her from another sig...well bad energy comes over the wire
> every time the samw way.
> except for the fact I happened to be an
> aquaintence of Dave Berg.
> Sorry Kathy - CLB you trying and it will never work.
One more time: I'm not Charlotte. But the fact that you think that I
am tells me that there are more people, some whom you even know
personally, who also think that you are completely full of shit.
And the only Dave Berg I have ever heard of is a guy who used to draw
for MAD Magazine about 35 years ago.
I'm not who you think I am, but while I'm here, I do have a career
pointer for you. I think you ought to take a page from another
tedious self-promoting "artist"..
Like "Thomas Kinkade, Painter of Light", you could call yourself
"Mattison Fitzgerald, Painter of Shite".
Next stop -- QVC, Home Shopping, and Valley Fair Mall! The
possibilities are endless!
Kathy, herself
Glenn Geist
>The Cassidys ? Carolyne - On the Road Fame --- she is a personal
>friend so is her son JC.
>
Is Carolyn Cassady still alive and living in Paris? Is she still
working? I would be most interested to know.
Glenn
~Artist~
>
> ~Artist~ <matt...@att.net> wrote:
>
> >The Cassidys ? Carolyne - On the Road Fame --- she is a personal
> >friend so is her son JC.
> >
>
Where have you been ?
She has been tourning America with the book.
Is she still
> working?
Yes, she is protecting her families rights to copyrights from people
using images they do not have rights too, working on her garden.
I will not tell where she lives because the iditos in this country caused
her to leave as they do not know how to treat the culture makers. So
what else is new and by your actions you fall in that cat.e.gory and
do not deserve to know anymore about the local of that artist.
I would be most interested to know.
You do not deserve to know.
Mattison
Glenn Geist
>Glenn Geist wrote:
>>
>> ~Artist~ <matt...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> >The Cassidys ? Carolyne - On the Road Fame --- she is a personal
>> >friend so is her son JC.
>> >
>>
>> Is Carolyn Cassady still alive and living in Paris?
>
>Where have you been ?
Why - right here being insulted.
>
>She has been tourning America with the book.
>
I'm only aware of her first book - "Off the Road" which came out in
1990. I will certainly have to look for the new one. I've been
captivated by the Beats since boyhood, but she put everything in such
a different light, I'll never see Cassady or Kerouac - or any of them
the same way again.
> Is she still
>> working?
>
>Yes, she is protecting her families rights to copyrights from people
>using images they do not have rights too, working on her garden.
>
I was hoping that she was still working as an artist.
>I will not tell where she lives because the iditos in this country caused
>her to leave as they do not know how to treat the culture makers. So
>what else is new and by your actions you fall in that cat.e.gory and
>do not deserve to know anymore about the local of that artist.
What actions? I'm simply someone who has respect for her, her writing
and her art - what did I do to make you angry? What the hell do you
know about me anyway - is it just jealousy?
>I would be most interested to know.
>You do not deserve to know.
That's not nice - I'm happy to hear she's still around, that's all. I
wouldn't mind having one of her drawings either - in fact I'd love
to. If somehow you know her, then I'm sorry she has yet another
inflated, boorish, insulting, bellicose, low-life lout to contend
with. She deserves better.
>
>
Tell me, what is it that makes you so hostile? What makes you assume
things you know nothing about? I don't see abstract art as a
nefarious plot? I'd rather listen to intelligent debate than insults?
If you want to turn this into a street fight or a gun battle or a drag
race, I'm game, but let's let people talk about art in here if you
don't mind.
Glenn
real name, real fed up with your crap.
Kennon Baird
>Tell me, what is it that makes you so hostile? What makes you assume
>things you know nothing about? I don't see abstract art as a
>nefarious plot? I'd rather listen to intelligent debate than insults?
>If you want to turn this into a street fight or a gun battle or a drag
>race, I'm game, but let's let people talk about art in here if you
>don't mind.
>
>Glenn
>
>real name, real fed up with your crap.
Mattison has little patience with anyone who isn't fawning over her or
signing checks made out to her.
She's constantly crowing about how groundbreaking and important her
work is, but the reality of it - as one can easily see - is something
quite different.
According to her, she knows everyone and has done everything - and has
done it better than anyone else could possibly do it. She has some
real problems.
KB
kat...@dnai.com
>Glenn Geist wrote:
and asked a simple question about Carolyn Cassidy.
And true to form, Mattie turned it around into being all about
*herself*, and made sure she got in a couple of snide remarks about
how superior her "Artist" self is to any other life form on the
planet.
>> ~Artist~ <matt...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> >The Cassidys ? Carolyne - On the Road Fame --- she is a personal
>> >friend so is her son JC.
Bragging about her famous "friends" and namedropping -- two of
Mattie's *true* talents.
>> Is Carolyn Cassady still alive and living in Paris?
>
>Where have you been ?
Ego-tripping on her little delusion that she's the only hip person
there is.
>I will not tell where she lives because the iditos in this country caused
>her to leave as they do not know how to treat the culture makers.
Many of us fervently hope that some "idito" out there has sufficient
moxie to drive Mattie over the edge and into exile.
> and by your actions
What action? All Glenn did was ask Mattie a simple question.
> you fall in that cat.e.gory and
>do not deserve to know anymore about the local of that artist.
This sounds more like the rantings and mumblings of a delusional,
paranoid street-person, than what a *real friend* of Carolyn Cassady
would say.
I recently read a review of Carolyn's book, in which I found this
quote: "Carolyn Cassady's book is not a brag, it's not a boast, and
it's not a complaint."
I just found that kind of funny, and ironic, since everything Mattie
says IS a brag, a boast, and a complaint.
Glenn, don't take Mattie's insult personally. She's probably laboring
under the delusion that you're someone else who pissed her off. She
thinks I'm some woman named Charlotte.
Just look at it this way: every moment Mattie spends ranting into
cyberspace is a moment she's not promoting herself, begging for more
grants to support her sorry ass, cranking out another truckload of
"art", or writing looonnnng boring descriptions of the "deep inner
meaning" of her "art", her "muse" or her "fame".
Kathy
~Artist~
> I have no idea what she does - all I know is that I asked a civil
> question and got an adolescent tantrum.
Did you not READ what I wrote about CC? She moved out of here
because of the insensitive Americans...that means she does not want
to be bothered.
You so rudely inquired about her whereabouts after I made it clear
solitude was important to her.
I could not believe the insensitivity or you question.
Obviously you have not lived any sort of a public life nor have you
been friend to people who are in that situation or you would never
have asked.
Basically it is none of your business!
Mattison
Mattison
Glenn Geist
>
>Mattison has little patience with anyone who isn't fawning over her or
>signing checks made out to her.
There isn't much patience around this place at all - too many people
looking for a fight and using any excuse. lotso of ego, little else
>
>She's constantly crowing about how groundbreaking and important her
>work is, but the reality of it - as one can easily see - is something
>quite different.
>
I have no idea what she does - all I know is that I asked a civil
question and got an adolescent tantrum.
>According to her, she knows everyone and has done everything - and has
>done it better than anyone else could possibly do it. She has some
>real problems.
>
I think we could say that about a half dozen of the regulars here -
it's a damn shame. The net has such potential and yet it's crippled
by these saboteurs. It's like grafitti only worse - at least you can
still use the building that's tagged, but it's almost impossible to
use the newsgroups.
Glenn
>KB
Glenn Geist
>
>Glenn, don't take Mattie's insult personally. She's probably laboring
>under the delusion that you're someone else who pissed her off. She
>thinks I'm some woman named Charlotte.
Personal insults from someone that knows you are easier in a way -
There are ways to deal with those. when someone doesn't know you from
adam, it's more annoying ;because it's so far off base - and of course
you can't defend youself without resorting to the same kind of
bragging. Maybe I should tell her I'm the Queen of Sheba.
>
>Just look at it this way: every moment Mattie spends ranting into
>cyberspace is a moment she's not promoting herself, begging for more
>grants to support her sorry ass, cranking out another truckload of
>"art", or writing looonnnng boring descriptions of the "deep inner
>meaning" of her "art", her "muse" or her "fame".
>
I could forgive that easier than the road rage that's going on here.
>Kathy
Erik A. Mattila
Glenn Geist wrote:
>
> I'm only aware of her first book - "Off the Road" which came out in
> 1990. I will certainly have to look for the new one. I've been
> captivated by the Beats since boyhood, but she put everything in such
> a different light, I'll never see Cassady or Kerouac - or any of them
> the same way again.
>
Let me tell you my adventue, Glenn. (Mattison is not the only name dropper
here). Fresh out of high school, I got a job in a summer camp as a counselor
(1960). My co-worker was Gia Fu Feng, (the Beat's principal informant on Zen
- Alan Watts' teacher). After camp was over, Gia Fu asked David Jan de Kat
and I if we wanted to go up to North Beach with him. Both David and I were
big fans of Beatnikdom, so we were thrilled.
We first landed at Eric Nord's pad. Real interesting -- a prototype for
Warhol's Velvet Underground. It was about 8:30 am, and sleeping bodies were
everywhere. Nord was going on and on about his latest bad press. After we
left, the three of us agreed that Nord was a flayboyant showoff, a victim of
fame and notoritety. We next landed at the pad of a man named Jay Blaise.
He was there alone, and he and Gia Fu talked a ot about mutual friends and
the Eselan Institute. Gia Fu was trying to tell us how he would stamd on a
cliff in Big Sur every morning and watch the 'walls' and we couldn't
understand what the hell he was talking about. It turned out it was 'wales'
spoken with a heavy Shanghai accent.
A pounding at the door, and Jay got up to see who it was. He came back with
two other men, and introduced everyone. It was Jack Kerouac and Niel
Cassidy. De Kat and I were trying to act cool, trying to hide the fact that
we were in awe. Only both Kerouac and Cassidy were snockered to the gills,
and had a fresh jug of Red Mountain Burgandy in tow. Kerouac plopped down on
a floor mattress, and handed me the swill, saying "Come on, my friend, let's
get drunk (belch). Shit, I declined. And David declined also. Kerouac and
Cassidy just looked at us (with glazed eyes) and shrugged. Gia Fu got up,
rubbed his hands together, and said "Well, we must hit the road, gentlemen."
Out on the sidewalk he laughed at us, but we said it was ten o'clock in the
morning and the wine sounded like a bad idea. He started laughing, slapping
his thighs and all that. You couldn't pull the wool over his eyes. He knew
we were just frightened little teenage twerps. He knew we blew it.
Erik Mattila
kat...@dnai.com
to newsgroups on art and Bay Area events. She consistently puts other
people down -- including people like you, who she doesn't even know --
in order to hype her attempts to sell her "art". She fantasizes that
people who post rebuttals to her put-downs, of everyone but herself
and those whose names she thinks are important enough to drop, are
people she has actually met.
Posting to an art newsgroup about one's art, in brief, is one thing.
My argument with Ms. Fitzgerald in this instance is that she is trying
to exploit a tragedy (the high school shootings in Littleton) in order
to enrich herself. It is my opinion, having read her posts for years,
that her interest in this awful event is strictly for personal
financial gain.
Usually we just let Mattie stew in her own juices. But her line of
crap about the Columbine shootings, intended to hype herself and sell
her hastily-created "work" on the topic, reminded me of nothing more
than the right-wing religious types who used the same terrible event
to try and push school prayer. Not because they care, but because a
tragedy fit their agenda.
"Road rage"? Hardly. When one posts what amounts to spam on Usenet,
one had better be ready to take the heat.
Kathy
Glenn Geist
If only it were possible to turn up the heat - there's really no way
to get to these people and they know it. So easy to type away, calling
people morons and knowing there's nothing they can do. Perhpas it's
the only way they can affect the world - their art doesn't, their
words get no respect, their lives are empty, so they strut in
newsgroups, annoying people and posturing, the hollow men that they
are, their dried voices tired and meaningless, like rat's feet in our
dry cellar
Hutto
On Thu, 20 May 1999, Glenn Geist wrote:
> If only it were possible to turn up the heat - there's really no way
> to get to these people and they know it.
Correction: There is no way people like YOU can get to me...Well,
discounting making posts like the one I'm replying to.
> So easy to type away, calling
> people morons and knowing there's nothing they can do.
You may or may not have noticed, but not EVERYONE get's called "moron".
Some people have good ideas.
> Perhpas it's
> the only way they can affect the world - their art doesn't, their
> words get no respect, their lives are empty, so they strut in
> newsgroups, annoying people and posturing, the hollow men that they
> are, their dried voices tired and meaningless, like rat's feet in our
> dry cellar
Perhaps you are stepping a little too far off the ledge. You haven't seen
my work and you don't know my life. You are correct on two counts, I annoy
people and I do a lot of posturing. The posturing is the annoyance
vehicle, see...:)
Just because I am able to annoy you does not mean MY life is empty. That
doesn't follow any logic. Why does what I say annoy you? Is it because I
am able to see through your defenses of unskilled crap and it makes you
mad or embarrassed? Does it make you feel threatened in your own sphere of
artistic existence? Or, did you just get your little feelings hurt after
being railed upon for asskissing one of your heroes? You defend college
students and fry cooks as though they were Rembrandt and Van Gogh. You
have chosen to ally yourself with the enemy, the undereducated and the
underskilled.
People like Ariane and A.A.Raimes thrive in forums like these because they
are able to pose as knowitalls or artistic forces without having to back
themselves up with proof. In reality, they get their knowledge ONLY from
books and their artistic abilities ONLY from the flimsy praise of
know-nothings. I live and breathe to shoot them off their perches.
That's all it's about Glenn. You entered the fray by defending the wrong
side. Get a clue, examine your allies, and make a better choice.
Hutto
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Visit Brother Alphabet's Evergrowing List of Bad Ads
w w w . b a d - a d s - l i s t . c o m
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Glenn Geist
>Glenn Geist wrote:
>
>> I have no idea what she does - all I know is that I asked a civil
>> question and got an adolescent tantrum.
>
>Did you not READ what I wrote about CC? She moved out of here
>because of the insensitive Americans...that means she does not want
>to be bothered.
I didn't ask for her phone number. If she's on a book tour, she's not
exactly hiding like Salmon Rushdie. Yes I READ what you wrote but
it's hard to READ anything but tantrum in it. She's an artist and
writer - I read books, I buy art. I'm looking to do more of this.
>
>You so rudely inquired about her whereabouts after I made it clear
>solitude was important to her.
>
There's only one thing you make clear - the same thing nuts like hutto
and mani make clear
>I could not believe the insensitivity or you question.
Nor I the rudeness of your answer, Ms sensitivity.
>
>Obviously you have not lived any sort of a public life nor have you
>been friend to people who are in that situation or you would never
>have asked.
>
Don't be so dramatic. You wish you had a public life, I'm sure. I've
wanted one of her drawings for years - does she really need you to
protect her from art collectors?
>Basically it is none of your business!
>
And none of your business to invent motivtions for me - I asked if she
was well and living in Paris, as she was a few years ago - because I
was moved by her book. If that set you off, there's something wrong
with you.
>
I hope those that buy art treat you the same way! tone it down - your
touchiness sounds a bit exaggerated. For a person who pretends
sensitivity to persecution you do quite a bit of it yourself, don't
you?
>Mattison
>
>
>
>Mattison
You didn't need to say it twice - I READ it the first time.
Hutto
On Thu, 20 May 1999, Glenn Geist wrote:
> There's only one thing you make clear - the same thing nuts like hutto
> and mani make clear
That you're a knee-biting ass-kisser?
Where do you get that I'm a "nut"? Hehe. :)
People who can't handle overdoses of truth often claim the soures of same
are nuts.
> Don't be so dramatic. You wish you had a public life, I'm sure. I've
> wanted one of her drawings for years - does she really need you to
> protect her from art collectors?
If they aren't readily available, that should tell you something.
Hutto
Ariane
On Thu, 20 May 1999, Hutto wrote:
(...)
> People like Ariane and A.A.Raimes thrive in forums like these because they
> are able to pose as knowitalls or artistic forces without having to back
> themselves up with proof. In reality, they get their knowledge ONLY from
> books and their artistic abilities ONLY from the flimsy praise of
> know-nothings. I live and breathe to shoot them off their perches.
>
> That's all it's about Glenn. You entered the fray by defending the wrong
> side. Get a clue, examine your allies, and make a better choice.
>
> Hutto
=== That's what I figured you were up to oh misogynistic victim of
inbred DNA. The `old boys club' wants the sandbox back eh? Tired of
being excluded from conversations due to your limited intellect and the
inherent probitiveness of your own cultural wasteland, you conspire to
play `Sauron' with your `buds'.
Look fool, No one's stopping you from yammering on about linseed vs. stand
oil. By all means......I enjoy reading technical tips from REAL, &
experienced artists (unlike yourself) and have benefitted greatly from
printing out things written here by Dan Fox, Larry Seiler, Erik Matilla,
Marilyn, Peter Nelson, etc. But you'll have to move your lumpy
misogynistic ass over, like it or not, and deal with posts on art history,
aesthetics, or whatever I, Alison, or any other woman choose to post here.
So Glenn, I suppose its time to `examine your allies' and join the `old
boys club' or you'll be "excluded" from the clique.......You see, Hutto &
co. (pseudonyms all) are trying to re-adjust the climate of the ng. And
of course, their feeble attampts at re-adjustment ARE the climate of the
ng. Until now.
a bientot,
A.
Hutto
On Thu, 20 May 1999, Ariane wrote:
> The `old boys club' wants the sandbox back eh?
I have the sandbox, chica. I want you out of it.
> Tired of
> being excluded from conversations due to your limited intellect and the
> inherent probitiveness of your own cultural wasteland, you conspire to
> play `Sauron' with your `buds'.
Virtually nothing about me is limited, other than my ability to magically
whack you with a newspaper from remote distances.
> Look fool, No one's stopping you from yammering on about linseed vs. stand
> oil.
Ugh. How drab would that be? Oh, wait, it would be exciting compared to
your incoherent babblings about late victorian aesthetics as influenced by
the dawn of industry...blah blah blah. You should apply for jobs with
sedative manufacturers when you get out of school.
> By all means......I enjoy reading technical tips from REAL, &
> experienced artists (unlike yourself) and have benefitted greatly from
> printing out things written here by Dan Fox, Larry Seiler, Erik Matilla,
> Marilyn, Peter Nelson, etc.
I'm sure you think you have.
> But you'll have to move your lumpy
> misogynistic ass over, like it or not, and deal with posts on art history,
> aesthetics, or whatever I, Alison, or any other woman choose to post here.
Actually, I could choose to kill all your posts like Alison the fry cook,
but I choose to air your points of view, burdensome as they may be.
It is completely beyond me why so many people on this group defend
talent-free hacks like Alison.
> So Glenn, I suppose its time to `examine your allies' and join the `old
> boys club' or you'll be "excluded" from the clique.......You see, Hutto &
> co. (pseudonyms all) are trying to re-adjust the climate of the ng.
> And of course, their feeble attampts at re-adjustment ARE the climate of
> the ng. Until now.
Hehe. I am this newsgroup. I show up every three or four months, insult an
anal brat bitch like you and have every thread BUT linseed vs stand oil
mentioning me - I'll leave when I'm bored and the group will STILL be
posting random insults at me. Hehe. This is all humor. I know as well as
any of you that serious artists don't have time to participate in this
forum. I am here to rid myself of a block, and then, I'll see you in 6 or
8 months, still here babbling about your histories. La deeee da, it's
worthless.
All you are is a goofy insecure college student at some unknown canadian
college. I did what you do years ago. I'm over that. It no longer has any
bearing on reality. "Theory and aesthetics" are for office dwellers with
no drive or talent. You might learn that if you are lucky. If not you'll
be stuck in the same rut as your former hippy friends. You praise
technical advice from Beatniks and Warhol kneebiters while not realizing
the complete lack of value either sect maintains. Your head is either in
the clouds or between your legs, and neither of those locales will move
you forward.
Do what you want, say what you will, until you see through the pink-shaded
fog you will never see at all.
Ariane
> > The `old boys club' wants the sandbox back eh?
>
> I have the sandbox, chica. I want you out of it.
=== Not that what you want matters whatsoever.....Chico.
> > Tired of
> > being excluded from conversations due to your limited intellect and the
> > inherent probitiveness of your own cultural wasteland, you conspire to
> > play `Sauron' with your `buds'.
>
> Virtually nothing about me is limited, other than my ability to magically
> whack you with a newspaper from remote distances.
=== .....and your intellect, your milieu, your abilities, your
personality, etc. etc. etc. But none of it really matters, because its
`back to the toychest you go' when I'm through laughing at you.
> > Look fool, No one's stopping you from yammering on about linseed vs. stand
> > oil.
>
> Ugh. How drab would that be? Oh, wait, it would be exciting compared to
> your incoherent babblings
=== Incoherent to you and your legion buddies maybe....
> about late victorian aesthetics as influenced by
> the dawn of industry...blah blah blah.
=== Wow, you really did miss the boat....What do they teach you down
there in `ole miss' anyway? How to build plantations and recruit
`workers' for them??
> You should apply for jobs with
> sedative manufacturers when you get out of school.
=== You should remain on disability pension and keep trying to impregnate
your McDonalds hand puppet rather than venturing outside the trailer.
> > By all means......I enjoy reading technical tips from REAL, &
> > experienced artists (unlike yourself) and have benefitted greatly from
> > printing out things written here by Dan Fox, Larry Seiler, Erik Matilla,
> > Marilyn, Peter Nelson, etc.
>
> I'm sure you think you have.
>
> > But you'll have to move your lumpy
> > misogynistic ass over, like it or not, and deal with posts on art history,
> > aesthetics, or whatever I, Alison, or any other woman choose to post here.
>
> Actually, I could choose to kill all your posts like Alison the fry cook,
> but I choose to air your points of view, burdensome as they may be.
=== Well thankee kindly for yer considerashun....
> It is completely beyond me why so many people on this group defend
> talent-free hacks like Alison.
=== Yes, it would be completely beyond you. Its called `meeting people,'
`making contacts,' `learning things,' and other such useful activities
which benefit one's life, that is, if they don't exist in some backward
hovel of a town where everyone thinks `art' is the barber on main st.
> > So Glenn, I suppose its time to `examine your allies' and join the `old
> > boys club' or you'll be "excluded" from the clique.......You see, Hutto &
> > co. (pseudonyms all) are trying to re-adjust the climate of the ng.
> > And of course, their feeble attampts at re-adjustment ARE the climate of
> > the ng. Until now.
>
> Hehe. I am this newsgroup.
=== I know. Under three or four names. You're here all the time
clown-boy.
> I show up every three or four months,
=== Under the name `brother idiot' that is...
> insult an anal brat bitch like you and have every thread BUT linseed
> vs stand oil mentioning me - I'll leave when I'm bored and the group
> will STILL be posting random insults at me. Hehe. This is all humor.
=== I know. `Back to the toychest you go'.....
> I
> know as well as any of you that serious artists don't have time to
> participate in this forum.
=== Serious artsists are regular people. Regular people participate in
this forum. Serious artists could indeed be participating. Its called
logic. You should try it once in a while. You may manage to sound
halfway intelligent. And then you'll thank me for the tip. See how nice
I am, even to you who calls me `anal brat bitch'?
> I am here to rid myself of a block,
=== Try a laxative. Thinking with your rectum won't work for you I'm
afraid.
> and
> then, I'll see you in 6 or 8 months, still here babbling about your
> histories. La deeee da, it's worthless.
=== Yes, to you, because you don't understand history, nor human
relations. That's why your posts are worthless
> All you are is a goofy insecure college student at some unknown canadian
> college.
=== University, not college. Unknown to you because, as in everything
else, you're ignorant of whatever lies outside of your 99 channel radius.
> I did what you do years ago. I'm over that. It no longer has any
> bearing on reality.
=== You don't know what I `do'.
> "Theory and aesthetics" are for office dwellers with
> no drive or talent.
=== Well, surprisingly, I agree with you although I wouldn't say
`no talent'. `Talent for conformity' would be a better way of putting it.
Bold heads forgetful of their sins
Old respectable bald heads
Edit and annotate the lines
That young men
Tossing on their beds
Rhymed out in Love's despair
All shuffle there
All cough in ink
All know the man their neighbour knows
All think what other people think
-Keats-
> You might learn that if you are lucky.
=== Yeah, just maybe eh?
> If not you'll
> be stuck in the same rut as your former hippy friends. You praise
> technical advice from Beatniks and Warhol kneebiters while not realizing
> the complete lack of value either sect maintains.
=== Technical advice has nothing to DO with value fool. That's the whole
point. Technical tips are just that. Value is a personally cultivated
sensibility. If I valued say, Bouguereau like Mani, then I would paint in
oils, with thin glazes, aim for a kind of realism, and seek out specific
techniques to help me achieve what I want.
> Your head is either in
> the clouds or between your legs, and neither of those locales will move
> you forward.
=== ha ha ha. Funny one there mr. misogynist. Trouble is, you're a
hateful, spiteful, bitter, stupid man. You mistake your shallow
underdeveloped reality for reality itself, that's your first mistake.
Then you try to impose your specific brand of conformist ignorance on
anyone who, well, who you can intimidate into it.
And you're talking about moving forward.....?
> Do what you want, say what you will, until you see through the
> pink-shaded fog you will never see at all.
>
> Hutto
=== But then again, the world's a big place. Your version of `reality' is
just that, your version. And evidently, you don't get out much. So, no,
I will never see things the way you do, I'm sure. I outgrew that years
ago.
A.
Hutto
On Thu, 20 May 1999, Ariane wrote:
> === You should remain on disability pension and keep trying to impregnate
> your McDonalds hand puppet rather than venturing outside the trailer.
Geez..I wish I *could* get free money.
> === Yes, it would be completely beyond you. Its called `meeting people,'
> `making contacts,' `learning things,' and other such useful activities
> which benefit one's life,
Just because I don't regard YOU as a valuable contact doesn't mean I'm not
making any. :)
> that is, if they don't exist in some backward
> hovel of a town where everyone thinks `art' is the barber on main st.
Hehe. That's pretty funny :) I'm going to have to steal that from you :) I
guess I HAVE learned from you after all.
> === I know. Under three or four names. You're here all the time
> clown-boy.
See, even though I only use one name, I keep paranoiacs like you thinking
I'm everywhere.
> > I show up every three or four months,
> === Under the name `brother idiot' that is...
For a smart little girl, you really can't read.
> === Serious artsists are regular people.
OK.
> Regular people participate in this forum.
OK.
> Serious artists could indeed be participating.
COULD being the operative word. Sure, it's POSSIBLE that the queen of
England lurks here.
> Its called logic. You
> should try it once in a while.
It's called reality, you should experience it once in a while. When I am
painting, I am never here. You should hope and pray I return to it soon so
that you can continue to pretend to be the smartest little girl in the
world without challenge.
> And then you'll thank me
> for the tip. See how nice I am, even to you who calls me `anal brat
> bitch'?
You've called me worse. I don't whine about it.
> > I am here to rid myself of a block,
> === Try a laxative.
A "creative block". You'd be able to empathize, had you the ability to
create at all. It happens to every artist once in a while. But thanks for
the suggestion. Figuratively, a laxative is what I'm after. Mind if I call
you Ex-Lax?
> Thinking with your rectum won't work for you I'm
> afraid.
Oh? Tried and failed have you?
> === Yes, to you, because you don't understand history, nor human
> relations. That's why your posts are worthless
That's why I give em away for free.
> > All you are is a goofy insecure college student at some unknown canadian
> > college.
> === University, not college. Unknown to you because, as in everything
> else, you're ignorant of whatever lies outside of your 99 channel radius.
Geez...In Canada it doesn't matter. It's obvious you're no better off.
> === You don't know what I `do'.
Yes I do. You take your little classes and attend your little lectures and
as you study for your little exams you begin to think you actually KNOW
things. Then you get on the internet and exclaim your mighty new knowledge
without even being aware that your KNOWLEDGE ceases to have an impact on
anything once you leave the comfortable environs of your campus. You fail
to comprehend how useless that knowledge is out on the street where the
required knowledge is of a completely different nature. You fail to learn
what it means to actually go without food for your ideals, and you fail to
feel the conflict an artist feels when faced with the choice between
conformity and freedom, the job, the work, food, or art. You do not
know the crushing blow the artist must absorb when accepting that the
dues we pay now are far different and far more severe than the dues the
masters paid. You fail to realize that the potent knowledge you learn in
books is only potent within the confines of the university. In the real
world it is as dead as everything else. The truth is, we are not artists
anymore. We are numbers on pegs. We can paint in our free time, sure, but
all day long belongs to the rest of reality.
Do you really think you know what it is to be in the world? Or do you have
your head in the sky, like I said before? You are correct - I do not know
you well enough to know your experience, but the way you speak betrays
your lack of real experience. Either that, or you are the most LUCKY and
the most unobservant person in the universe. Lucky because you have had no
hardships and unobservant because you have noticed no one else's.
You are obsessed with being correct. You value that over actually learning
things. You claim you learn plenty, but all I have ever seen you do is
preach your empty artistic notions, your bullshit philosophical/historical
nothings, and your sermons against real creators whom you fail to even
recognize. Add into the equation your sense of gender-persecution, plus
your general paranoia about being proven ignorant and you have the mess
you are, all bound up and high and mighty and knowing not a thing.
> === Technical advice has nothing to DO with value fool.
OK, you go right ahead and use every bit of technical advice you get.
> That's the whole
> point. Technical tips are just that. Value is a personally cultivated
> sensibility. If I valued say, Bouguereau like Mani, then I would paint in
> oils, with thin glazes, aim for a kind of realism, and seek out specific
> techniques to help me achieve what I want.
Sound techniques can be applied toward any goal.
> === ha ha ha. Funny one there mr. misogynist. Trouble is, you're a
> hateful, spiteful, bitter, stupid man.
Yeah yeah.
> You mistake your shallow
> underdeveloped reality for reality itself, that's your first mistake.
No, I treat reality as the illusion it is.
We all own different realities, so how could reality be truth?
Therefore, I deny reality and seek truth.
> Then you try to impose your specific brand of conformist ignorance on
> anyone who, well, who you can intimidate into it.
Sure. I'm a conformist.
I don't think you'll find too many people who've been brow-beaten into
agreeing with me. Those who agree with what I represent were of like mind
before I ever said a word. Besides that, I have never made a sermon to
support my artistic theories for you to even criticise in this way. What
exactly would I be intimidating people to believe? I think they'll see for
themselves how "underdeveloped" *your* worldview is.
> And you're talking about moving forward.....?
In your case, I am talking about you catching up to the rest of us.
> === But then again, the world's a big place. Your version of `reality' is
> just that, your version. And evidently, you don't get out much.
I've been to Canada and back...Am I not complete?
> So, no, I will never see things the way you do, I'm sure.
At least not until you grow up some and think back upon how foolish you
were before you witnessed the way the world really operated.
> I outgrew that years
> ago.
Years ago you were in diapers. I doubt you were doing any serious
philosophical pondering then.
TechnoCrate
<da_l...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>
>On Thu, 20 May 1999, Hutto wrote:
>> That's all it's about Glenn. You entered the fray by defending the wrong
>> side. Get a clue, examine your allies, and make a better choice.
>>
>> Hutto
>
>=== That's what I figured you were up to oh misogynistic victim of
>being excluded from conversations due to your limited intellect and the
>inherent probitiveness of your own cultural wasteland, you conspire to
>play `Sauron' with your `buds'.
>
>experienced artists (unlike yourself) and have benefitted greatly from
>printing out things written here by Dan Fox, Larry Seiler, Erik Matilla,
>misogynistic ass over, like it or not, and deal with posts on art history,
>aesthetics, or whatever I, Alison, or any other woman choose to post here.
>
group (and we all share your concerns) I can direct you to my little
thread "System Of Observation". I'm ofcourse not a seasoned
professional but don't be dissapointed: a number of the names you've
dropped have already contributed in an excellent and educational way.
You can ofcourse also start threads of yourself which will reduce the
noise/signal ratio instead of bashing up poor old Hutto whose
metaphorical "yellow" was great by the way. Really Ariane, quit
harrassing Hutto and show us the wise and intelligent woman you are.
We're all looking forward to your input.
Au revoir
Ariane
On Thu, 20 May 1999, Hutto wrote:
> It's called reality, you should experience it once in a while. When I am
> painting, I am never here. You should hope and pray I return to it soon so
> that you can continue to pretend to be the smartest little girl in the
> world without challenge.
=== What? So that's what its all about to you? God, you're more shallow
than I had originally thought....You're all about competition.
> On Thu, 20 May 1999, Ariane wrote:
>
> > And then you'll thank me
> > for the tip. See how nice I am, even to you who calls me `anal brat
> > bitch'?
>
> You've called me worse. I don't whine about it.
>
> > > I am here to rid myself of a block,
> > === Try a laxative.
>
> A "creative block". You'd be able to empathize, had you the ability to
> create at all.
=== Move to another art form oh multi-talented guru. When I have creative
trouble painting, I play music. When I can't write, I paint. It works,
try it.
(...)
> > > All you are is a goofy insecure college student at some unknown canadian
> > > college.
> > === University, not college. Unknown to you because, as in everything
> > else, you're ignorant of whatever lies outside of your 99 channel radius.
>
> Geez...In Canada it doesn't matter. It's obvious you're no better off.
=== Oh, sorry. Some nothing school in Mississippi is indeed superior to
McGill, U of T, Queen's, UBC, Concordia l'Universite de Montreal. Ha.
You're right billy bob, your posts are quite humourous.
> > === You don't know what I `do'.
>
> Yes I do. You take your little classes and attend your little lectures and
> as you study for your little exams you begin to think you actually KNOW
> things.
=== Wrong clown-boy. I've long since finished taking classes, attending
lectures, and writing exams. I mark essays and exams for extra cash
though.....
> Then you get on the internet and exclaim your mighty new knowledge
> without even being aware that your KNOWLEDGE ceases to have an impact on
> anything once you leave the comfortable environs of your campus.
=== Ceases to have an impact on you is what you mean. And that's only
because, as I've been stating all along, can't understand what is being
discussed in this newsgroup. Maybe your town or city is a little backward
and has no culture. So you think all other places must be the same.
Think again. Elsewhere, knowledge and the arts matter to the community.
Just not to your community. Understand?
> You fail
> to comprehend how useless that knowledge is out on the street where the
> required knowledge is of a completely different nature. You fail to learn
> what it means to actually go without food for your ideals, and you fail to
> feel the conflict an artist feels when faced with the choice between
> conformity and freedom, the job, the work, food, or art.
=== What? I've roughed it a hell of a lot more than you have lemming-boy.
There is no conflict for some when choosing between freedom and
conformity, art or toys and hot dogs. You on the other hand have already
made that choice, and for you, there is conflict. I don't really care
about your problems or your inner strife. You don't like being hungry,
having your phone cut, having to hike across the city because you can't
afford bus fare, and you're bitter about it. Fine, I don't really care
about your choices. I'm living with my own thanks.
> You do not
> know the crushing blow the artist must absorb when accepting that the
> dues we pay now are far different and far more severe than the dues the
> masters paid.
=== Try travelling through the Northeast in a van with no heat, playing
shows in Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Buffalo, Albany, Rochester, and
Halifax, in February. You get to the show and your hands are so frozen
and so white you have to run them under hot water just to tune up. There's
some dues for you.....
> You fail to realize that the potent knowledge you learn in
> books is only potent within the confines of the university. In the real
> world it is as dead as everything else. The truth is, we are not artists
> anymore. We are numbers on pegs.
=== Speak for yourself Hutto.
> We can paint in our free time, sure, but all day long belongs to the
> rest of reality. Do you really think you know what it is to be in the
> world?
=== Without question.....I just haven't sold-out yet. Why so bitter about
what I do? I don't care about your life, why are you so concerned about
mine?
> Or do you have your head in the sky, like I said before? You
> are correct - I do not know you well enough to know your experience,
> but the way you speak betrays your lack of real experience.
=== Lack of conformity is more like it. You see, I've seen and done a
hell of a lot in my life. I just don't get goaded into talking about it
on net newsgroups. So I won't. Point is, you don't recognize the kind
of person I am because, as I said before, my insanity is utterly different
from yours. I don't watch TV. I don't buy into the fashionable cynicism
which permeates your culture. I do my own thing and answer to no one
but myself. There, now you know more about me.
> Either
> that, or you are the most LUCKY and the most unobservant person in the
> universe. Lucky because you have had no hardships and unobservant
> because you have noticed no one else's.
=== Au contraire mon frere. I've had lots of hardships, numerous,
numerous hardships. Perhaps that's why I'm so philosophical about life
(not in an academic sense). Its a way of coping with life. As to other
people's I've had so many of my own, I figure others can work it out too.
Coming from where I come, sympathy is not one of my attributes I'm
afraid.
> You are obsessed with being correct. You value that over actually
> learning things.
=== Nah. That's just partly ego, partly intentinal provocation to debate
topics, and partly so that I can be challenged and learn from others.
> You claim you learn plenty,
=== Oh but I do. That's why I'm still on-line. Everyone has something to
teach.
> but all I have ever seen
> you do is preach your empty artistic notions
=== Well, that's your opinion.
> your bullshit
> philosophical/historical nothings
=== Nothing to you that is...
> and your sermons against real
> creators whom you fail to even recognize.
=== I've never sermonized against anyone, living or not on this ng.
You're upset that we don't like the same artists? What a little tantrum
you're throwing here....
> Add into the equation your
> sense of gender-persecution, plus your general paranoia about being
> proven ignorant and you have the mess you are, all bound up and high
> and mighty and knowing not a thing.
=== Yeah, well you're not too impressive either mr. neuron. You're a bit
of an obsessive really. Alternately intimidating women with
references to stalking, killing, rape, and then gibbering like a goof
about how you've figured them out and that they're nothing in the end.
I've read your intellectual slop now, put up with your intimidation
tactics, and can see you for the poser clown you, in fact are. You don't
even know if I'm female Sigmund. So don't fuck yourself too much.
I might just bash you around a bit when I meet you fool. I'm done with
you now fuck face. Into the shitpile you go.....
just kidding of course,
A.
Ariane
On 20 May 1999, TechnoCrate wrote:
> On Thu, 20 May 1999 12:19:57 -0400, Ariane
> Well, since you're obviously concerned about the trolling in this
> group (and we all share your concerns) I can direct you to my little
> thread "System Of Observation". I'm ofcourse not a seasoned
> professional but don't be dissapointed: a number of the names you've
> dropped have already contributed in an excellent and educational way.
=== Cool. No rape stories lurking there `usurper'?
> You can ofcourse also start threads of yourself which will reduce the
> noise/signal ratio instead of bashing up poor old Hutto whose
> metaphorical "yellow" was great by the way.
=== The second half of `red' was better though. That was rather
interesting, dialogic writing and all.....
> Really Ariane, quit
> harrassing Hutto and show us the wise and intelligent woman you are.
=== Yeah, thanks TC. I can be so evil and violent sometimes. By the way,
you remind me of someone else I just read. how coincidental eh? Its a
small ng after all....
> We're all looking forward to your input.
>
> Au revoir
=== I know you are. Thanks TC, I knew I could count on you old buddy.
Aren't the Dutch swell?
au revoir mon ami,
A.
Erik A. Mattila
TechnoCrate wrote:
> On Thu, 20 May 1999 12:19:57 -0400, Ariane
> <da_l...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
> >
> >On Thu, 20 May 1999, Hutto wrote:
> >> That's all it's about Glenn. You entered the fray by defending the wrong
> >> side. Get a clue, examine your allies, and make a better choice.
> >>
> >> Hutto
> >
> >=== That's what I figured you were up to oh misogynistic victim of
> >inbred DNA. The `old boys club' wants the sandbox back eh? Tired of
> >being excluded from conversations due to your limited intellect and the
> >inherent probitiveness of your own cultural wasteland, you conspire to
> >play `Sauron' with your `buds'.
> >
> >Look fool, No one's stopping you from yammering on about linseed vs. stand
> >oil. By all means......I enjoy reading technical tips from REAL, &
> >experienced artists (unlike yourself) and have benefitted greatly from
> >printing out things written here by Dan Fox, Larry Seiler, Erik Matilla,
> >Marilyn, Peter Nelson, etc. But you'll have to move your lumpy
> >misogynistic ass over, like it or not, and deal with posts on art history,
> >aesthetics, or whatever I, Alison, or any other woman choose to post here.
> >
> Well, since you're obviously concerned about the trolling in this
> group (and we all share your concerns) I can direct you to my little
> thread "System Of Observation". I'm ofcourse not a seasoned
> professional but don't be dissapointed: a number of the names you've
> dropped have already contributed in an excellent and educational way.
>
> You can ofcourse also start threads of yourself which will reduce the
> noise/signal ratio instead of bashing up poor old Hutto whose
> metaphorical "yellow" was great by the way. Really Ariane, quit
> harrassing Hutto and show us the wise and intelligent woman you are.
> We're all looking forward to your input.
>
> Au revoir
On the other hand, TC, it was fun (I'm assuming that Hutto's sign-off was for
real). I actually started to feel a little pissed when the arguments invaded
this thread, but on second thought, my mind's eye began to visualize a classic
Hollywood fencing match between Errol Flynn, Douglas Fairbanks Jr., Maureen
O'Hara, Mamie Van Doreen, and others (extras?). What intrigued me about this
was that the argument was jumping from thread to thread, just like Fairbanks
jumping all over the movie set architecture in the course of the duel.
Slash, parry, thrust. Great stuff.
So I'm kind of sad to read Hutto's sign-off. I mean it's like the video tape
broke before I had a chance to see who gets impaled and who triumphs. Oh,
well....
Erik Mattila
PostModernAntique
In article <19990515195212.870$Q...@newsreader.com>,
marc...@sabbanet.com(Marcus Bramble) wrote:
The direct question is and was for Dan, would he consider
negative commentary ever to be the 'most intelligent' thing
written about his work...
> Bryn_Ayers <br...@wralaw.com> wrote:
> [Dan Fox:]
> > > Thanks very much. I see a lot of commentary on my work in the
press,
> > etc.,
> > > but seldom get such intelligent analysis, pro or con.
> [Bryn_Ayres:]
> > Is it intelligent because it is flattery?
[Marcus:]
> No, Bryn, you kept the flattery part of the post and cut Marilyn's
> discussion of the work and why she liked it.
Be that as it may... It is a valid question I pose even for
myself... If one can be objective about anothers criticism...
I was writing in Response to Dan Fox's statement not to
Marylin. All positive critique's are flattering, I have
seen some written of myself, I have to admit I have taken
most of the negative comments about my work as strange...
and off the mark - if not actually stupid. I would say that
it is obviously improbable that one can be completely
objective when it comes to analysis of critiques by others.
> Marcus
Bryn (never phil) Ayers
<A href="http://www.wralaw.com/people/bryn/gallery2.html">
temporary thumbnail gallery </a>
--
Ciao Eh!
++ Cendant ++
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
Marilyn
You've got me in stitches.
Medics, here please!!!
Marilyn
Marilyn
> >
> Well, since you're obviously concerned about the trolling in this
> group (and we all share your concerns) I can direct you to my little
> thread "System Of Observation".
I responded to your little thread, saying that your definition
of art was your own limited version of drawing/painting,
therefore your observations are limited. Using the broad term
Art is a mistake in your premise. Fix that, & I might get interested.
Marilyn
Kay Kane
:PostModernAntique <br...@wralaw.com> wrote:
:> In article <19990515195212.870$Q...@newsreader.com>,
:> marc...@sabbanet.com(Marcus Bramble) wrote:
:>
:> The direct question is and was for Dan, would he consider
:> negative commentary ever to be the 'most intelligent' thing
:> written about his work...
:<snip>
:
:Yes. It has happened a couple of times. Both were negative
:reviews in the art press. Each time, after getting angry, ranting and
:raving about critics, etc., etc., I had to slink back to the studio, lick
:my wounds, and admit that the writer had a point. Both bad reviews resulted
:in my reevaluating my work and ending up with better art.
:
:Both of those negative reviews addressed specific elements of my work and
:pointed out concrete weaknesses (much as Marilyn's positive review pointed
:out my use of drawing over color fields and what she thought it meant). On
:the other hand,I pay no attention to comments like Peter Nelson's *my kid
:could do that* - which are not reviews at all but childish name-calling.
:
:No one likes negative comments, intelligent or otherwise. But if we refuse
:to listen to intelligent evaluations of all types we risk artistic
:stagnation.
:
:Thanks for repeating your question.
:
:Dan
Hi Dan,
I'd like to put my .02 in here. I received both my worse and best review on
the same day for the same show! One newspaper wrote about all the art
happenings in town (Tucson) and BRIEFLY mentioned me, less than a sentence,
really, stating: "... emotional, but incredibly poor knowledge of
painting..." and the other paper put a color photo of my work in the paper
and raved about my painting ability, etc. for 3/4 of the front page of that
week's "Arts" section! Guess who I give more credibility to?
Kay
To reach me remove 'rcd' from my e-mail address
~Artist~
> the other hand,I pay no attention to comments like Peter Nelson's *my kid
> could do that* -
Tell him you will pay him 50K if he can and watch them choke.
LOL
I do it all the time.
It get funner and funner every year as the prices go up!
LOL
Mattison
~Artist~
depth charge was set.
LOLLater
Mattison
~Artist~
Lots, alway have always will.
Mattison
~Artist~
You are right about the work etc.
M
~Artist~
10 48 x 72 paint
6 36 x 48 paint
6 24 x 24 paint
10 17 x 24 pastels
and whatever sketches I can muster
the trees will be pleased
spill paint!
M
~Artist~
> If only it were possible to turn up the heat - there's really no way
> to get to these people and they know it. So easy to type away, calling
> people morons and knowing there's nothing they can do. Perhpas it's
> the only way they can affect the world - their art doesn't, their
> words get no respect, their lives are empty, so they strut in
> newsgroups, annoying people and posturing, the hollow men that they
> are, their dried voices tired and meaningless, like rat's feet in our
> dry cellar
They wonder why the kids shoot each other....
More teen mass murders today.
10 more editors in my path.
Anyone in this group who wants to forward this Columbine article to
you local editors please do.
It is posted here again.
> Artist Mattison Fitzgerald adds Columbines to 'Flower Power'
> Series
>
> May 12, 1999, Silicon Valley, San Jose, Ca.... Over the last year, I
> have been working on a series of paintings called 'Flower Power'.
> Today, I added a grouping of columbines to the series as a message
> to American Artists and parents world wide to stand up for support
> of creativity and the arts in your schools and neighborhoods and
> communities. It is apparrent to me that why we are seeing youth in
> America today continue to destroy each other is that we are
> witnessing the first generation of kids who were raised without the
> arts in their schools.
>
> The fad for cutting the arts from schools has appeared to have
> caught up with us in a very destructive trend of killings and suicides
> as a release of frustration. Cutting of the arts has become a grave
> and destructive mistake and our youth are paying for it in many
> ways and even with their lives.
>
> It is important for people to understand that when the arts were
> removed from schools that what was removed was a venue for
> understanding differences. When they cut the music programs they
> removed a venue for developing achievement. When they removed
> the dance and drawing classes they removed a mode of
> communication that consistently allowed the arts to give a venue
> and a way to support differences in everyone and allowed an
> avenue for improvement of self esteem for young people.
>
> The arts are of great importance to the cultural fabric of developed
> countries and as we see a decline of the arts we see a decline of the
> culture in total. Just like the romans verses the greeks in art
> history. Today the demise of the arts can be translated to what we
> are experiencing in the shootings of young people like in America
> or suicides of youth in Japan. It is important that the arts be
> employed at very heightened levels in our societies and cultures in
> order to seek improvement and healing of the individual.
>
> Heightened attention to coursework in the arts in schools around
> America and elsewhere will allow people to understantd
> themselves, will allow them to grow, develop, heal and improve in
> areas where science and sports do not reach. Heightened support
> of the arts will allow young people and communities to reach into
> their souls, it will give them places to succeed in ways they would
> never have tapped without the christening of a mural, without the
> applause after performance. The arts allows the ability for kids to
> dance at the sea and feel comfortable in simply expressing joys or
> sorrows in forms that words cannot.
>
> Just like the columbine in a series of paintings as a mark in time, the
> ability to express feelings in ways that connect us without words
> has geat value. The arts ability to empower thought that can
> inspire others can build self esteem through symbolism and
> symbolism is a powerful tool for leadership. This type of thinking
> and communicating is learned through the arts.
>
> By requiring the arts in the neighborhoods and in your childrens
> lives you will be giving these kids a place to create, a place to grow
> strong, a place to vent, a place to understand themselves, a place
> to understand each other and a place to celebrate differences. By
> allowing the arts in schools you will at the same time be allowing
> the kids to develop key and important differences in themselves
> that can also aid the development of strong self images and their
> ability to understand the differences in others.
>
> As it appears today, your kids lives quite well may depend on it. It
> is important to demand that freedom of expression and arts
> programs be added back into the National Education programming
> for American kids and teens.
>
> As I think back to my school years in a place just like Columbine
> High School I can still remember the first and last names of jocs
> who picked on the nerds. I remember as an artist at that school
> how I hated seeing people treat each other that way.
>
> I can remember how happy I was that my family valued creativity
> enough to let me mature in mine as a place to escape and develop
> on my own. I can remember that they allowed me to use the arts to
> become an individual that valued my own differences and used
> them as strengths to value other differences and strenghts for me
> to succeed. I remember thinking how sorry I felt for the kids whos
> parents did not allow the arts or did not value the arts they seemed
> to have been missing so much.
>
> Today, I wonder if all those kids at Columbine High might have
> developed better images of themselves and their peers had they
> been cultivated more each in their own creativity and freedom of
> expression through the arts? I wonder had they had more
> opportunities in the arts in their early years that they might have
> understood differences of others and learned to be more tolerant of
> those differences? I wonder had they had more exposure to the arts
> and various dimensions of differences might they still be alive
> today?
>
> Artists know how understanding artwork adds to understanding
> self. Artists know that through understanding you learn to accept
> cultural differences by being different yourself. Artists learn that by
> being different you are ok and you learn to tolerate more in
> yourselves and in others. Artists learn all this through the arts and
> artists bring much to the world through diverse thought and
> questioning and sharing of ideas. All the things those parents at
> columbine wish now that they could have shared with their kids to
> understand what was really going on behind that tradgey but it is
> now to late to ask.
>
> The columbine blossom is now added to the 'Flower Power' series.
> That series of paintings was concieved from a poetic dimension of
> life which included personal and global tradgies, leadership,
> moments, color, love and a positive wish for the future.
>
> I think we would all agree that is what 'Flower Power' is about. I
> think we would all agree that the columbine belongs in that flower
> series as a symboic reminder that we all need to address the
> symbolism of the flower power meanings through the arts. I think
> we all need to pray that it is not to late to reach a generation of
> kids. I think we need to recognize that the arts can teach the kids
> that peace, love and creativity are important values that can be
> cultivated through differences and revered in ourselves and others
> throught the arts and we can teach them through the arts that care
> matters.
>
> Mattison Fitzgerald
> Artist
> http://www.rhinodevcom/M
> matt...@att.net
"Get out of my way!"
cro...@hotmail.com
Kay Kane
(snip)
:They wonder why the kids shoot each other....
I'm sure that YOU can provide the answer!
:
:More teen mass murders today.
Quick, make a buck out of it!
:10 more editors in my path.
National Inquirer? Star?
:Anyone in this group who wants to forward this Columbine article to
:you local editors please do.
Yes, we will all promote YOUR sick projects since we don't have our OWN
projects, I'm sure.
:It is posted here again.
Which proves that prayers aren't always answered...
:> Artist Mattison Fitzgerald adds Columbines to 'Flower Power'
:> Series
:> May 12, 1999, Silicon Valley, San Jose, Ca.... Over the last year, I
:> have been working on a series of paintings called 'Flower Power'.
In 1999, in California! How original, how innovative!
(snipping opportunistic drivel)
Dan Fox
> In article <19990515195212.870$Q...@newsreader.com>,
> marc...@sabbanet.com(Marcus Bramble) wrote:
>
> The direct question is and was for Dan, would he consider
> negative commentary ever to be the 'most intelligent' thing
> written about his work...
>
<snip>
Yes. It has happened a couple of times. Both were negative
reviews in the art press. Each time, after getting angry, ranting and
raving about critics, etc., etc., I had to slink back to the studio, lick
my wounds, and admit that the writer had a point. Both bad reviews resulted
in my reevaluating my work and ending up with better art.
Both of those negative reviews addressed specific elements of my work and
pointed out concrete weaknesses (much as Marilyn's positive review pointed
out my use of drawing over color fields and what she thought it meant). On
the other hand,I pay no attention to comments like Peter Nelson's *my kid
could do that* - which are not reviews at all but childish name-calling.
No one likes negative comments, intelligent or otherwise. But if we refuse
to listen to intelligent evaluations of all types we risk artistic
stagnation.
Thanks for repeating your question.
Dan
> > Marcus
>
> Bryn (never phil) Ayers
>
>
TechnoCrate
<da_l...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>On 20 May 1999, TechnoCrate wrote:
>
>> Well, since you're obviously concerned about the trolling in this
>> group (and we all share your concerns) I can direct you to my little
>> thread "System Of Observation". I'm ofcourse not a seasoned
>> professional but don't be dissapointed: a number of the names you've
>> dropped have already contributed in an excellent and educational way.
>
>=== Cool. No rape stories lurking there `usurper'?
>
Geee, It was a *love* story
Kennon Baird
>They wonder why the kids shoot each other....
>
>More teen mass murders today.
>10 more editors in my path.
>
>Anyone in this group who wants to forward this Columbine article to
>you local editors please do.
>
>It is posted here again.
Get some professional help, Mattison.
KB
kat...@dnai.com
Silicon Valley. Mattie's off for Mexico on the 32 Pieces In 14 Days
Tour.
Dimensions conveniently provided below. Send Mattie swatches of your
furniture fabrics for a perfect match.
~Artist~ <matt...@att.net> wrote:
Mattison reveals her technique...
Kathy
TechnoCrate
<da_l...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>> Add into the equation your
>> sense of gender-persecution, plus your general paranoia about being
>> proven ignorant and you have the mess you are, all bound up and high
>> and mighty and knowing not a thing.
>
>=== Yeah, well you're not too impressive either mr. neuron. You're a bit
>of an obsessive really. Alternately intimidating women with
>references to stalking, killing, rape, and then gibbering like a goof
>about how you've figured them out and that they're nothing in the end.
>I've read your intellectual slop now, put up with your intimidation
>tactics, and can see you for the poser clown you, in fact are. You don't
>even know if I'm female Sigmund. So don't fuck yourself too much.
>I might just bash you around a bit when I meet you fool. I'm done with
>you now fuck face. Into the shitpile you go.....
>
>
Dammit Ariane! You scared him off. Now all is forsaken.
But really, bashing HIM up? Jason A. Hutto? The Brother? The lad is
into sword fighting and stuff. Looking at his face on his page I
reckon he might be big as well.
Gee, you just want to get on his "hatefull things" page
John Haber
>
>People like Ariane and A.A.Raimes thrive in forums
>like these because they are able to pose as knowitalls
Gosh, their pose has convinced me entirely. I was going to say they
even read a book once and completed a work of art. As for the
complainants about them such as Hutto ....
John
John Haber
Kay, sounds like a stereotyped 1950s putdown of a woman.
John
Dan Fox
> Dan Fox wrote in message <19990520212207.731$s...@newsreader.com>...
>
> Hi Dan,
> I'd like to put my .02 in here. I received both my worse and best review
> on the same day for the same show! One newspaper wrote about all the art
> happenings in town (Tucson) and BRIEFLY mentioned me, less than a
> sentence, really, stating: "... emotional, but incredibly poor knowledge
> of painting..." and the other paper put a color photo of my work in the
> paper and raved about my painting ability, etc. for 3/4 of the front page
> of that week's "Arts" section! Guess who I give more credibility to?
>
> Kay
Right on. I think that there is a bias toward longer good reviews because
someone reviewing a show positively will have more to talk about, whereas
someone panning the show will often be simply dismissive.
Deciding which criticism to accept and which to reject can, on the face of
it, be very difficult. I've found, however, that while good negative
criticism need not be constructive (although it usually is) - it always
makes sense. Once I calm down enough to consider it rationally, that is.
Dan
Erik A. Mattila
away....
The boy's a social scientist!
Erik Mattila
TechnoCrate wrote:
> On Thu, 20 May 1999 16:11:26 -0400, Ariane
> <da_l...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>
> >> Add into the equation your
> >> sense of gender-persecution, plus your general paranoia about being
> >> proven ignorant and you have the mess you are, all bound up and high
> >> and mighty and knowing not a thing.
> >
> >=== Yeah, well you're not too impressive either mr. neuron. You're a bit
> >of an obsessive really. Alternately intimidating women with
> >references to stalking, killing, rape, and then gibbering like a goof
> >about how you've figured them out and that they're nothing in the end.
> >I've read your intellectual slop now, put up with your intimidation
> >tactics, and can see you for the poser clown you, in fact are. You don't
> >even know if I'm female Sigmund. So don't fuck yourself too much.
> >I might just bash you around a bit when I meet you fool. I'm done with
> >you now fuck face. Into the shitpile you go.....
> >
> >
Kay Kane
Dan Fox wrote in message <19990521154203.882$o...@newsreader.com>...
I could accept constructive criticism if certain terms or if justification
is applied: why is it *bad*... The dismissive categorization with no
further explanation is like a slap in the face from a stranger (huh?). The
positive comments have explanations, of course. Also, people showing in
Chicago, New York City, London, Montreal, Amsterdam (have I included
everyone on this n.g.?) will, most likely have art reviewers with a strong
knowledge of art theory, art criticism, art history. The reviewers in
Tucson, Phoenix, and I suspect, places like Omaha, Nebraska, Springfield,
Missouri, Trenton, New Jersey will, like those in my area, also be the
reviewers of local theater, dance, music, etc.. = the *experts* on
culture. (Although a good review is a sure sign of the *superior* knowledge
of the specific reviewer in my book...) Aside from fragile egos, I look to
art history, especially the late 19th century where an artist could be
slandered, his (I would normally put a *her* here, but not enough *hers* to
merit) work could be the recipient of thrown tomatoes and didn't someone
punch Edvard Munch because they didn't like his work??? So, knowledge of
the past helps the present...
Kay Kane
blame this on gender, though I've found more help from male mentors than
from women.
Kay
To reach me remove 'rcd' from my e-mail address
John Haber wrote in message <37457e09...@news.cc.columbia.edu>...
:>emotional, but incredibly poor knowledge
:
:Kay, sounds like a stereotyped 1950s putdown of a woman.
:
:John
Glenn Geist
Glenn
"Erik A. Mattila" <emat...@tomatoweb.com> wrote:
>
>
>Glenn Geist wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm only aware of her first book - "Off the Road" which came out in
>> 1990. I will certainly have to look for the new one. I've been
>> captivated by the Beats since boyhood, but she put everything in such
>> a different light, I'll never see Cassady or Kerouac - or any of them
>> the same way again.
>>
>
>Let me tell you my adventue, Glenn. (Mattison is not the only name dropper
>here). Fresh out of high school, I got a job in a summer camp as a counselor
>(1960). My co-worker was Gia Fu Feng, (the Beat's principal informant on Zen
>- Alan Watts' teacher). After camp was over, Gia Fu asked David Jan de Kat
>and I if we wanted to go up to North Beach with him. Both David and I were
>big fans of Beatnikdom, so we were thrilled.
>
>We first landed at Eric Nord's pad. Real interesting -- a prototype for
>Warhol's Velvet Underground. It was about 8:30 am, and sleeping bodies were
>everywhere. Nord was going on and on about his latest bad press. After we
>left, the three of us agreed that Nord was a flayboyant showoff, a victim of
>fame and notoritety. We next landed at the pad of a man named Jay Blaise.
>He was there alone, and he and Gia Fu talked a ot about mutual friends and
>the Eselan Institute. Gia Fu was trying to tell us how he would stamd on a
>cliff in Big Sur every morning and watch the 'walls' and we couldn't
>understand what the hell he was talking about. It turned out it was 'wales'
>spoken with a heavy Shanghai accent.
>
>A pounding at the door, and Jay got up to see who it was. He came back with
>two other men, and introduced everyone. It was Jack Kerouac and Niel
>Cassidy. De Kat and I were trying to act cool, trying to hide the fact that
>we were in awe. Only both Kerouac and Cassidy were snockered to the gills,
>and had a fresh jug of Red Mountain Burgandy in tow. Kerouac plopped down on
>a floor mattress, and handed me the swill, saying "Come on, my friend, let's
>get drunk (belch). Shit, I declined. And David declined also. Kerouac and
>Cassidy just looked at us (with glazed eyes) and shrugged. Gia Fu got up,
>rubbed his hands together, and said "Well, we must hit the road, gentlemen."
>Out on the sidewalk he laughed at us, but we said it was ten o'clock in the
>morning and the wine sounded like a bad idea. He started laughing, slapping
>his thighs and all that. You couldn't pull the wool over his eyes. He knew
>we were just frightened little teenage twerps. He knew we blew it.
>
>Erik Mattila
>
Glenn Geist
you would do well to stop making assumptions about my life. If I
defend fry cooks, it's because they are human beings. I will defend
morons too in fact, against those who delight in hurting people. I
simply don't like the school yard atmosphere here it's unworthy of my
attentions. You may think it's your right to pee in the pool and
defend it by saying it's already polluted, but I don't have to swim
here. I already feel degraded by having gone this far.
Sooner or later you'll figure out who you're talking to, but frankly
my boy, I don't give a damn.
Glenn
Hutto <ja...@isis.msstate.edu> wrote:
>
>On Thu, 20 May 1999, Glenn Geist wrote:
>
>> If only it were possible to turn up the heat - there's really no way
>> to get to these people and they know it.
>
>Correction: There is no way people like YOU can get to me...Well,
>discounting making posts like the one I'm replying to.
>
>> So easy to type away, calling
>> people morons and knowing there's nothing they can do.
>
>You may or may not have noticed, but not EVERYONE get's called "moron".
>Some people have good ideas.
>
>> Perhpas it's
>> the only way they can affect the world - their art doesn't, their
>> words get no respect, their lives are empty, so they strut in
>> newsgroups, annoying people and posturing, the hollow men that they
>> are, their dried voices tired and meaningless, like rat's feet in our
>> dry cellar
>
>Perhaps you are stepping a little too far off the ledge. You haven't seen
>my work and you don't know my life. You are correct on two counts, I annoy
>people and I do a lot of posturing. The posturing is the annoyance
>vehicle, see...:)
>
>Just because I am able to annoy you does not mean MY life is empty. That
>doesn't follow any logic. Why does what I say annoy you? Is it because I
>am able to see through your defenses of unskilled crap and it makes you
>mad or embarrassed? Does it make you feel threatened in your own sphere of
>artistic existence? Or, did you just get your little feelings hurt after
>being railed upon for asskissing one of your heroes? You defend college
>students and fry cooks as though they were Rembrandt and Van Gogh. You
>have chosen to ally yourself with the enemy, the undereducated and the
>underskilled.
>
>People like Ariane and A.A.Raimes thrive in forums like these because they
>are able to pose as knowitalls or artistic forces without having to back
>themselves up with proof. In reality, they get their knowledge ONLY from
>books and their artistic abilities ONLY from the flimsy praise of
>know-nothings. I live and breathe to shoot them off their perches.
>
>That's all it's about Glenn. You entered the fray by defending the wrong
>side. Get a clue, examine your allies, and make a better choice.
>
>Hutto
>
>ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> Visit Brother Alphabet's Evergrowing List of Bad Ads
> w w w . b a d - a d s - l i s t . c o m
>ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
>
David
On 21 May 1999, TechnoCrate wrote:
> Dammit Ariane! You scared him off. Now all is forsaken.
>
> But really, bashing HIM up? Jason A. Hutto? The Brother? The lad is
> into sword fighting and stuff. Looking at his face on his page I
> reckon he might be big as well.
>
> Gee, you just want to get on his "hatefull things" page
There's more than a few people who'd be glad to do it for her Techno
twerp. The `lad' is a wimp. Likes to intimidate women. Big or not, the
guy's a spineless pussy to be blunt. And it looks like Ariane kicked his
little ass all over this poor excuse for communication. Brother
knob-nibbler, swarm victim. Sounds like fun.
Ariane
On Sat, 22 May 1999, Glenn Geist wrote:
> Hutto me boy - this is not a parting shot, but it is a final post -
> you would do well to stop making assumptions about my life. If I
> defend fry cooks, it's because they are human beings. I will defend
> morons too in fact, against those who delight in hurting people. I
> simply don't like the school yard atmosphere here it's unworthy of my
> attentions. You may think it's your right to pee in the pool and
> defend it by saying it's already polluted, but I don't have to swim
> here. I already feel degraded by having gone this far.
>
> Sooner or later you'll figure out who you're talking to, but frankly
> my boy, I don't give a damn.
=== Well Glenn, it's unfortunate that you get muscled off this forum due
to a few mindless morons who are capable of little else beyond
intimidation and antagonization. Other conversations could be had, old
Grimace could be ignored, but then again, its not much of a loss I must
confess.......
desole
A.
Ariane
On Fri, 21 May 1999, Erik A. Mattila wrote:
> And Hutto predictied we would go on and on about him after he slipped
> away....
> The boy's a social scientist!
>
> Erik Mattila
=== Erik, for once we are in complete agreement. Judging by your friend's
intellect, he'd make a great social scientist, he'd fit right with the
rest of them I'd say.......
A.
Hutto
On Tue, 25 May 1999, David wrote:
> There's more than a few people who'd be glad to do it for her Techno
> twerp.
Her who? Huh? What?
> The `lad' is a wimp. Likes to intimidate women.
Where in the world do you psychobabble addicts get this crap?
Which women, exactly, were intimidated by me?
Since when is arguing with a female considered to be an intimidation
tactic? What do you suggest I do? Assume all women to be incapable of
arguing their points of view? Should I treat women as though they were
little puffs of nothing that can't formulate their own thoughts?
If I do that, I am sexist, and now you say if I challenge a woman on a
point, or heaven forbid INSULT a woman, I am trying to INTIMIDATE her?
I would really hate to live anywhere that made sense. Talk about spineless
men. That's amazonian!
> Big or not, the
> guy's a spineless pussy to be blunt.
This is me controlling my urge to respond to that. If that doesn't
exhibit spine, I don't know what does.
> And it looks like Ariane kicked his
> little ass all over this poor excuse for communication. Brother
> knob-nibbler, swarm victim. Sounds like fun.
I will not deny my own defeat. I wasn't up to the challenge. I haven't
worked out in a while...ran out of steam, etc. No shame there. However, I
notice that you have the same email address as Ariane...Can you not gloat
under your previous handle? Or are you just some random nitwit who wants
everyone to think you're Ariane going by the name "David".
In either case, who cares? You/Ariane won round 1. It's not as though I
give up easily. Besides, I basically conceded anyway for fear some loon
like [Glenn Geist's name omitted here] would REALLY sue me (I wish I had
that much money and time....).
I think I will take May Flowers' advice and get myself an anonymous
address somewhere.
David
On Tue, 25 May 1999, Hutto wrote:
> I will not deny my own defeat. I wasn't up to the challenge. I haven't
> worked out in a while...ran out of steam, etc. No shame there. However, I
> notice that you have the same email address as Ariane...Can you not gloat
> under your previous handle? Or are you just some random nitwit who wants
> everyone to think you're Ariane going by the name "David".
We share an account, its as much mine as hers shithead and I don't
appreciate getting crap from a loser like you in MY box. So fuck off back
to the hole you crawled out of and keep your mindless shit on your little
newsgroup among your little friends.
> In either case, who cares? You/Ariane won round 1. It's not as though I
> give up easily. Besides, I basically conceded anyway for fear some loon
> like [Glenn Geist's name omitted here] would REALLY sue me (I wish I had
> that much money and time....).
>
> I think I will take May Flowers' advice and get myself an anonymous
> address somewhere.
I don't give a shit what you do fuck face. I don't want mail from a
cocksucker like you in my mailbox. Got it boy?
Hutto
On Tue, 25 May 1999, David wrote:
> We share an account, its as much mine as hers shithead and I don't
> appreciate getting crap from a loser like you in MY box. So fuck off back
> to the hole you crawled out of and keep your mindless shit on your little
> newsgroup among your little friends.
Wow. Ariane sure can pick em.
I think I'll CC this reply to my new pal Dave. Can I call you Dave, Dave?
> I don't give a shit what you do fuck face. I don't want mail from a
> cocksucker like you in my mailbox. Got it boy?
No, Could you repeat the above please?
Are you saying that you don't want me to send YOU mail, or that you don't
want me to send Ariane mail, or should I not send mail to either one of
you? I am confused.
I'll tell you one thing...There's nothing quite as fun as an
easy-to-enrage mouth-breather like yourself. Are you the janitor at her
otherwise fine college, or are you studying trash-talking? You really
can't expect a drooling curse-out like the above to have any sort of
impact. Did you actually foam at the mouth while typing, or do you just do
that when Ariane scratches your haiwy wittle bewwy?
Hutto
May Flowers
ja...@isis.msstate.edu says...
>I think I will take May Flowers' advice and get myself an anonymous
>address somewhere.
Take another bit of advice from me and DON'T
send EMAIL to anyone when you respond to an
article here. I don't. My newsreader has an
option which avoids sending email. I only post
replies to the newsgroup here. I've always
followed the policy of keeping email private
and expecting privacy in mine.
Glenn Geist
>
>
>
>=== Well Glenn, it's unfortunate that you get muscled off this forum due
>to a few mindless morons who are capable of little else beyond
>intimidation and antagonization. Other conversations could be had, old
>Grimace could be ignored, but then again, its not much of a loss I must
>confess.......
>
>desole
>
>A.
I'll still stop by when I feel the need to be called an idiot by
voices from nowhere - like a negative burning bush of some sort.
Desol - b
G
>
>
>