the abstract expressionisim problem
mdeli
-If any AE masterpiece had the signature erased and were signed Joe
Schmo it would be considered worthless garbage.
-the public depends on critics to distinguish the so-called
masterpiece from the mere imitation.
-the abstract element in AE is neither new or in anyway unique.Vastly
superior abstract work (in terms of skill and attractiveness) can be
found in the decorative arts from Tibetan sand painting to oriental
rug patterns and even in floor covering and towel designs. (all of
which are flat images and were flat images long before AE made its
debut.)
-Vast tracts of Artspeak praise lead mystically oriented people to
imagine that these works have transcendental significance.
-in a sense AE can not be rationally criticized and all negative
criticisms are ultimately answered with cryptic appeals for the
understanding of the non-existent so-called Language of Modern Art.
-AE is a PUT-ON which the intellectual kitsch industry can talk about
and sell to people with "Emperor’s New Clothes" syndrome. These
people in turn can claim deep but inexplicable understanding and feel
that they are more sensitive and superior than ordinary inferior
folk. This fulfills there need to feel exceptional.
-The excuse that AE makes people feel good while it is in fashion is
of no consequence. Remember, hated Salon painting made people feel
good throughout the 19th century. Today it is considered so bad that
hardly anyone is able to see it and judge for himself.
Mani DeLi
...no skill no art
A Skeptical View of Modern Art was updated Jan.16,99
check out my new book, new work, new comments at:.
http://www.interlog.com/~hugod/
Peter H.M. Brooks
hug...@interlog.com "mdeli" writes:
>
> -If any AE masterpiece had the signature erased and were signed Joe
> Schmo it would be considered worthless garbage.
>
I don't mind your mindless blathering on about abstract expressionism, but
I do object to you bad mouthing J. Schmo. You should see some of his early
engravings before you leap to scornful judgement.
--
Peter H.M. Brooks
Joe Schmoe
Mr. de Li:
I object to your slanderous use of my good name. My work is very highly
regarded on three continents and seven islands. I am a personal friend
of Mattison Fitzgerald, who is an artist. Peter Nelson has purchased my
work (for cash) and patted me on the head. Mr. Hutto has invited me to his
trailer for fortified wine and a go at his sister.
You shall hear from my solicitor in due time!
J. Schmoe
> -If any AE masterpiece had the signature erased and were signed Joe
> Schmo it would be considered worthless garbage.
>
> Mani DeLi
> ...no skill no art
Ariane
On Thu, 20 May 1999, Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
> hug...@interlog.com "mdeli" writes:
>
> >
> > -If any AE masterpiece had the signature erased and were signed Joe
> > Schmo it would be considered worthless garbage.
> >
> I don't mind your mindless blathering on about abstract expressionism, but
> I do object to you bad mouthing J. Schmo. You should see some of his early
> engravings before you leap to scornful judgement.
>
> --
> Peter H.M. Brooks
=== !!!! Joe Schmo: Artist of the century.
mdeli
>hug...@interlog.com (mdeli) wrote:
>
>Mr. de Li:
>
>I object to your slanderous use of my good name. My work is very highly
>regarded on three continents and seven islands. I am a personal friend
>of Mattison Fitzgerald, who is an artist. Peter Nelson has purchased my
>work (for cash) and patted me on the head. Mr. Hutto has invited me to his
>trailer for fortified wine and a go at his sister.
>
>You shall hear from my solicitor in due time!
>
>J. Schmoe
Is she cute?
Put another way:
-If any AE masterpiece had the signature erased and were signed
Ariene, Marilyn, Ass Ass R. or any other member of the artzy fartzy
faction here it would be considered worthless garbage.
Mani DeLi
...no skill no art
A Skeptical View of Modern Art was updated Jan.16,99
steph...@my-deja.com
> ...no skill no art
>
> A Skeptical View of Modern Art was updated Jan.16,99
> check out my new book, new work, new comments at:.
> http://www.interlog.com/~hugod/
>
Expressionism. In fact, a lineage of classical drawing is very
apparent in deKooning and Gorky. Of course, I am assuming your
emphasis on skill is about drawing and paint handling. If so, what is
the critical basis for good or bad? A well controlled line, perhaps
proper proportion, a likeness, expressiveness in execution? These are
genetic as well as acquired skills useful in depicting observed
phenomenon.But why is it necessary to go so far, computers and
photography can generate the same thing. If art is a demonstration of
our skill, very nice...but who cares? This is not to say that tightly
controlled pictures are somehow boring or inferior. Morris Louis
executed a high degree of control over his art and I feel it is on an
equal level with the best of Abstract Expressionism.
My expectation of art is that it does transcend. It generates feelings
that are comprehended visually and make direct verbalization
difficult. This doesn't seem like a cop-out as far as rational
criticism goes, but only that if we could completely explain the
picture then why bother to paint it.
Steve D.
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
Dan Fox
Stephen -
Thanks for a great post. Your words will be lost on M. Deli, since he's
not open to differing ideas, but plenty of people will read this post
and enjoy it. I did.
Regards,
Dan
> Both skill and attractiveness appear present in the best of Abstract
> Expressionism. In fact, a lineage of classical drawing is very
> apparent in deKooning and Gorky. Of course, I am assuming your
> emphasis on skill is about drawing and paint handling. If so, what is
> the critical basis for good or bad? A well controlled line, perhaps
> proper proportion, a likeness, expressiveness in execution? These are
> genetic as well as acquired skills useful in depicting observed
> phenomenon.But why is it necessary to go so far, computers and
> photography can generate the same thing. If art is a demonstration of
> our skill, very nice...but who cares? This is not to say that tightly
> controlled pictures are somehow boring or inferior. Morris Louis
> executed a high degree of control over his art and I feel it is on an
> equal level with the best of Abstract Expressionism.
> My expectation of art is that it does transcend. It generates feelings
> that are comprehended visually and make direct verbalization
> difficult. This doesn't seem like a cop-out as far as rational
> criticism goes, but only that if we could completely explain the
> picture then why bother to paint it.
> Steve D.
>
> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
> ---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
--
-
mdeli
>Both skill and attractiveness appear present in the best of Abstract
>Expressionism.
Skill, no. Attractiveness in some work yes, but little more than in
floor covering, horse blankets. striped suspenders, bed sheets and
painter's drop cloths.
> In fact, a lineage of classical drawing is very
>apparent in deKooning and Gorky.
I think the "lineage you refer to goes back no further than 1933.
> Of course, I am assuming your
>emphasis on skill is about drawing and paint handling. If so, what is
>the critical basis for good or bad?
It starts with comparison or artworks. If you want detail read my
book.
> A well controlled line, perhaps
>proper proportion, a likeness, expressiveness in execution? These are
>genetic as well as acquired skills useful in depicting observed
>phenomenon.But why is it necessary to go so far,
It isn't
> computers and
>photography can generate the same thing.
Try Ingres for starters. Then try Mondrian.
>My expectation of art is that it does transcend.
Whatever that means.
> It generates feelings
>that are comprehended visually and make direct verbalization
>difficult. This doesn't seem like a cop-out as far as rational
>criticism goes, but only that if we could completely explain the
>picture then why bother to paint it.
?
mdeli
>Thanks for a great post. Your words will be lost on M. Deli, since he's
>not open to differing ideas, but plenty of people will read this post
>and enjoy it. I did.
>
>Regards,
>
>Dan
And tell us the great "differing ideas" you're open to.