The Question of Depth-2
Dan Cooper
Interesting comments on this issue:
chris -"a qualitative measure of the degree of
resonance a work can set up with a viewer; a measure of how much
the
experience of a work can enrich one's life, how much the study of
work
increases one's own self-awareness. The deeper a work, the more
it makes
life worth living."
I guess I'm trying to see if there are ANY objective criteria for understanding depth in art. It seems that most people who have been involved with art would agree that there are differing levels of depth or shallowness, say in painting. A (good) Rembrandt has more depth than a (good) Kinkade, no? Okay, why? Where does this dimension of depth exist? Is it purely subjective? Or is it related perhaps to craftsmanship? Well, weve all seen paintings of very accomplished technique that are still resoundingly shallow, but how do we know?
Is it because a painting is a communication from the artist to the viewer
and a great artist, having explored his own depths is communicating something
universal within the specific form of his artwork?
william barkin- "what may have "depth" for one observer may be perceived
as shallow to another...this could
all end in a tiresome and fruitless discussion...perhaps select
a known work
of art and let each participant describe how that work affects him/her...the
differing viewpoints may quite illuminating.
I remember haunting the Fogg museum for several years, mostly going to see certain favorite paintings, while walking by others with no interest. In particular, there was a Hans Hoffman that did nothing for me. I didn't know anything about him until I read an article about his theories of art that made a profound impression. I went back and sat down to look at this painting again, and after a while it began to speak to me, and I began to understand its language. I had missed its depth, just as I might miss the meaning in a beautiful poem spoken in Russian, the same sounds might be pronounced, but I would hear only the surface.
Any comments?
Dan
--
Dan Cooper Landscape Paintings
http://www.dancooperart.com
Marilyn Welch
The depth you speak of is also described as "meaning" is it not?
Now with regard to Rembrandt's work none of it is "bad" and with Kincaid
none of it is Art. In my opinion, Kincaid is on the same level as
McDonalds. Sure a lot of people eat there, but is what they serve really
food? There's a big difference between mass produced banal images made
strictly for commerce and a painting by Rembrandt. They can't be compared.
A drawing by Kathe Kolwitz can be piercing in its meaning, just as La
Pieta by Michaelangelo can touch that part of the viewer who "is
acquainted with grief."
As James Joyce said, the supreme question about a work of art is from how
deep a life did it spring.
If an artist wants to make interesting and meaningful work, he/she has to
live an intensely involved life. That could happen in a monastery or in
Manhatten.
Marilyn
Dan Cooper
yes, the creeks and lake are low due to lack of winter snow, but still beautiful and
raining enough to hold off the fire danger for now.
A thoughtful message, but I'm not sure that depth and meaning are synonymous. I must
ponder that question awhile.
For one thing, depth implies a measurable quantity, whereas meaning seems to imply an
interpretation.
Surely a painting, among other things, can be considered a communication from an
artist to a viewer. One problem that I see is that most people are visually
illiterate because our education and culture stress communication through reading and
writing. Therefore, most people cannot "read" a painting, because it is not in
English but in lines and shapes, colors and tones, rhythms and tensions, etc.etc.- a
rich Visual language. So no wonder they feel uncomfortable in front of a painting,
it's like giving them "War and Peace" in Russian and asking them how they like it.
I know it's nauseating to mention Rembrandt and Kinkade in the same context, but even
your analogy about McDonald's contradicts your point. It may not be gourmet food, it
may not be optimally nourishing, it may even make you die sooner than organic
vegetables, but it actually is food, and to much of the world it would be a big step
up from starvation. Perhaps in a similar fashion, the phenomenon of art has different
(definable?) levels of depth and must be recognized as existing at a certain place in
a spectrum. After all, there seem to be many people who buy K's art and maybe, for
them, it is a stretch, though the equivalent of flavored cardboard to an aficionado.
Have you been to Nelson- lots of creativity around here.
Dan
Marilyn Welch wrote:
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lauri levanto
"Marilyn Welch" <wq...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
>"There's a big difference between mass produced banal images made
> strictly for commerce and a painting by Rembrandt. They can't be compared.
to make 25 portraits of him. Pure commercial work. None of them is really
bad.
<...>
> If an artist wants to make interesting and meaningful work, he/she has to
> live an intensely involved life. That could happen in a monastery or in
> Manhatten.
-lauri
>
Peter H.M. Brooks
lauri levanto <lauri....@nokia.com> wrote in message
news:UYe_6.15179$cF.3...@news1.nokia.com...
>
> > If an artist wants to make interesting and meaningful work, he/she
has to
> > live an intensely involved life. That could happen in a monastery or
in
> > Manhatten.
> That is something to think about
>
Yes, it is. Clearly Marilyn means an involved inner-life with the two
extremes - you are more likely to have an intensely involved subjective
life in a monastery. The only problem with the argument is that it is a
bit circular - how do you know if somebody else has had an intensely
involved subjective experience? Well, you see their interesting and
meaningful work...
--
Si latet ars, prodest - Ovid
Art is a lie that makes us see the truth - Picasso
Maud Lynn
>there was a Hans Hoffman that did nothing for me. I didn't know
>anything about him until I read an article about his theories of art that made
a
>profound impression. I went back and sat down to look at this painting again,
>and after a while it began to speak to me, and I began to understand its
>language. I had missed its depth, just as I might miss the meaning in a
>beautiful poem spoken in Russian, the same sounds might be pronounced, but I
>would hear only the surface.
>
>Any comments?
Your example of Hans Hoffman's work is an excellent
one. It's the kind of work that the uninformed and
disinterested easily pass off as "my kid could do
as well." Hoffman's works all have an intellectual
content that only comes out when one stops to really
contemplate their composition. Good on you for
discovering this Master of Modern Art. Hans Hoffman
had a profound influence on many, if not most, of his
students. Some of whom went on to teaching careers
of their own, passing on what they had learned from
The Master.
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com)
to make my comment easier I will isolate
one of your quotes
"As James Joyce said, the supreme
question about a work of art is from how
deep a life did it spring."
Interestingly: Vernon Blake writes of
the relevance of personal maturity and
it's impact on art, in his: Art and
Craft of Drawing.
keith (the Bytown gentleman)