Oil Paint on Acrylic Gesso Ground (ok or not ok ?)
STEPHENZEZ
Ought one prepare a canvas for oil painting the traditional way?
- Or is it ok simply to use acrylic gesso?
thanks in advance, Stephen
Jay Elless
In article <4tchf7$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, steph...@aol.com says...
>- Or is it ok simply to use acrylic gesso?
If it's not okay, there are thousands, perhaps millions, of
painters out there who are doing it all wrong for the past
50 years or so. What is this, another AOLer spam question?
--
+++++++++++++++++++
Jay Elless
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Mr. Michael D. Cooper
Subject: Re: Oil Paint on Acrylic Gesso Ground (ok or not ok ?)
Be nice.
There are no stupid questions. Just stupid answers. Lighten up.
Michael Cooper
Murals & More
"Everthing is going to be alright."
Be nice.
There are no stupid questions. Just stupid answers. Lighten up.
Michael Cooper
Murals & More
"Everthing is going to be alright."
Jay Elless
In article <4tq9ap$1d...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>, ZHL...@prodigy.com says...
>Be nice.
>There are no stupid questions. Just stupid answers. Lighten up.
And trite, tired, time-worn, and yes -- STOOP-ED quotes.
I'm always nicely lite -- like cream that always comes to the top.
STEPHENZEZ
Jay Elless wrote:
>
> And trite, tired, time-worn, and yes -- STOOP-ED quotes.
> I'm always nicely lite -- like cream that always comes to the top.
alright already ! look... - the reasons I asked:
1) I haven't any formal training/knowledge nor have I seen the question
dealt with
here before
2) I've been using acrylics during the last couple of months and now I'm
getting started with oil (and I want to prepare my canvases)
3) A book I recently got (Ray Smith's "The Artists Handbook") says, on pg
67 in,
the chapter "grounds: other synthetic resin based grounds" : "... They
(acrylic
gesso primers) are extremely flexible and are appropriate on canvas for
use
with acrylic paints. They can be used as primers for oil painting on
rigid
supports but they are too flexible to use as primings on canvas for oil
painting - the film of oil paint would be less flexible than the ground
and would
therefore be extremely vulnerable.... "
( With regards to "STOOP-ED quotes" - I don't recall posting any
quotes)
... it really stinks that I had to post this 'justification' !
- that's all.
Ida Noh
Jay Elless wrote:
>
> And trite, tired, time-worn, and yes -- STOOP-ED quotes.
> I'm always nicely lite -- like cream that always comes to the top.
Are Marxian thought and Deconstructionist theories integral to your
art strategies? Are you a student or a teacher?
Ida
===========
Benny Shaboy
In <4trr5k$j...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> steph...@aol.com (STEPHENZEZ)
writes:
>
>Jay Elless wrote:
>>
>> And trite, tired, time-worn, and yes -- STOOP-ED quotes.
>> I'm always nicely lite -- like cream that always comes to the top.
>
>
Stevenzez: You are absolutely right to ask that question. If you are a
beginner or a hobbyist or, the answer is that it's fine to use ordinary
acrylic "gesso" under oil--provided it's dry enough first. Not all
experts agree, however, that it's OK if you are striving to do only
archival level work, especially, as Ray Smith points out, if you are
working on canvas. I put quotes around gesso, because it isn't really
gesso. There are some other synthetic compounds, though, that can be
used in it's place, under oil, but they tend to be expensive and hard
to find. The everyday reality, though, is that most casual--and many
professional--painters use the acrylic 'gesso' and problems usually
don't show up in their lifetimes.
BennyS
Jay Elless
In article <4trr5k$j...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, steph...@aol.com says...
> ... it really stinks that I had to post this 'justification' !
You didn't have to. But since you did, I feel compelled to elaborate
on my curt reply to you. Ray Smith has authored some excellent
references for novice artists -- but with this CAVEAT. Ray Smith
has a decidedly conservative British viewpoint toward art and art
materials. Much of what he refers to is NOT something common here
in the USA -- practices, materials, etc. American artists adopted and
pursued acrylics long before quality acrylics were available in the UK.
I know from experience. When I was living in the UK in the late 1970's I
had a devil of a time finding anything other than some Rowney Acryla
colors in tubes -- nothing available at that time in larger quantities.
On the other hand, I had been using acrylics in the USA since about
1965.
I have Ray Smith's "Artist's Handbook" with the section on page 67
where he discusses "other" than traditional oil painting grounds, and
mentions acrylic gesso as being unsuited to use with oils. His
ultra-conservative viewpoint is shared by Ralph Mayer in his ORIGINAL
Artist's Handbook -- who also says that acrylic primers are too flexible
and violate the old (outdated) rule about not painting "fat over lean."
All of this "theory" flies in the face of the fact that artists like myself
have been successfully painting in oils over acrylic "gesso" grounds
for over 30 years with no signs of cracking or other detrimental effects
common to oil paint on traditional rabbit skin glue and white lead ground.
My own paintings done 30 years or so ago are as fresh and colorful
as those I am working on at the moment. And I have never used anything
BUT acrylic "gesso" -- although in my leaner, meaner years I used a
quality acrylic house paint for a primer which was much cheaper then
than artist's manufacturers materials of exactly the same polymer
composition.
If I have "learned" one thing about the "RULES" of making art works it
is that: Rules are there to be broken !! Risk taking is just that --
a risk -- but the rewards can be huge too. Like playing the stock
market -- those who do the homework make money. Those who simply
gamble will usually end up losers.
Benny Shaboy
In <4tdnor$i...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> j...@tejas.com (Jay Elless)
writes:
>In article <4tchf7$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, steph...@aol.com
says...
>
>>- Or is it ok simply to use acrylic gesso?
>
>If it's not okay, there are thousands, perhaps millions, of
>painters out there who are doing it all wrong for the past
>50 years or so. What is this, another AOLer spam question?
Bonnie Miller
You tell him Steve. I'm with you; you have a valid question , and on
this subject I have heard different opinions. Only time will tell. I do
see Ray Smith's point. A flexible primer will make oil paintings more
vulnerable to cracking however, if the canvas is taken care of and not
exposed to atmospheres that might damage it, like heat or too much
moisture or too little moisture, etc......., it should hold up. I
respect Mr. Smith's advice since his book How to Draw and Paint What You
See was my first art instruction book, which I bought 10 years ago, and
helped me answer many questions along the way. I still refer to it from
time to time when I have a question, moreso than my Artist's Handbook by
Mayer I buy acylic primed canvas, which is flexible (and occasionally
I'll prime it with a couple of gesso coats if I want to change to
texture of the canvas) and paint with oils and never had a problem.
There are soooo many things that can affect the longevity of your
painting, particularly the fat over lean rule, that I wouldn't worry
about using gesso if you plan on doing so. If you're going by the rules,
buy and oil primed canvas but you will be paying more for it.
Bonnyvil