Anyone painted in europe?
Roger
I am currently a painting student, and decent, but definitely still a
student. I've seen some pretty terrible painters around some of the
tourist areas, and am wondering if anyone can advise me. I basically am
thinking of nailing my technical by painting hundreds of well-known
smallish (fit-in-your-luggage-size) oils/acrylics.
1. Is it legal? say, near the eiffel tower, or neuswanstein, or venice?
2. Anyone comment on the market? Would I be better off doing larger
gallery-type pieces, or perhaps a combo? what do nice, say, 8 x 10 ol
sketches or finished pieces go for (range) (and actually on the street)
3. anyone comment on the price of materials in western europe?
thanks! :^)
--
Roger Vetruba
Net design & Animation
http://www.Toonshoppe.com
Personal Site
http://www.Luckycard.com
RogerVetruba on Yahoo Pager
A.A. Raimes
<ro...@toonshoppe.com> writes
>Has anyone painted in europe near tourist areas?
Absolutely. Don't fall for any of this crap about artists' integrity
blah, blah, blah .... if you have a way of making money from some of
your works that doesn't interfere with the *real* work .. in other words
the two can exist side by side, then go for it. I make a pretty good
living doing that in London.
>
>I am currently a painting student, and decent, but definitely still a
>student. I've seen some pretty terrible painters around some of the
>tourist areas, and am wondering if anyone can advise me. I basically am
>thinking of nailing my technical by painting hundreds of well-known
>smallish (fit-in-your-luggage-size) oils/acrylics.
>
>1. Is it legal? say, near the eiffel tower, or neuswanstein, or venice?
You will need to get a license in all these cases - which can be a
problem for foreign visiting artists.
>
>2. Anyone comment on the market? Would I be better off doing larger
>gallery-type pieces, or perhaps a combo? what do nice, say, 8 x 10 ol
>sketches or finished pieces go for (range) (and actually on the street)
>
Probably both - just don't think it is easy to just suddenly become part
of the market. You will be competing - which doesn't have anything to do
with the quality of the work.
>3. anyone comment on the price of materials in western europe?
>
The market is usually the Americans - so the higher the better - then
they think you are someone special and that they are buying an
investment ! You can further fool them by offering a certificate of
authenticity - that's always a good one. For example I get about 100
pounds sterling (or 165 dollars) for a small 10" x 6" abstract 'on the
streets' and 800 pounds/1560 dollars from my agent (she gets 1200/1840)
for a 36" x 36" canvas.
Hey - it sure as hell beats waiting on tables - just don't lose sight of
what you are doing as an artist - treat it like waiting tables.
Good Luck !
Alison A Raimes
ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
Bob Parsons
>
> Has anyone painted in europe near tourist areas?
>
> student. I've seen some pretty terrible painters around some of the
> tourist areas, and am wondering if anyone can advise me. I basically am
> thinking of nailing my technical by painting hundreds of well-known
> smallish (fit-in-your-luggage-size) oils/acrylics.
>
> 1. Is it legal? say, near the eiffel tower, or neuswanstein, or venice?
>
> gallery-type pieces, or perhaps a combo? what do nice, say, 8 x 10 ol
> sketches or finished pieces go for (range) (and actually on the street)
>
>
> --
> Roger Vetruba
> Net design & Animation
> http://www.Toonshoppe.com
> Personal Site
> http://www.Luckycard.com
> RogerVetruba on Yahoo Pager
In Europe, France in particular, art materials (paint, brushes, etc)
will cost about twice what you are used to paying for them in the
US.
I was just there three weeks ago and did some checking on this very
thing. IMHO, take what you can with you!
--
Bob Parsons
Remember, keep smiling....that way they'll never know what you're up
to!
(To reply via e-mail remove the <"dot" "dot"> from my e-mail ID)
A.A. Raimes
<ali...@address.in.signature> writes
>The market is usually the Americans - so the higher the better - then
>they think you are someone special and that they are buying an
>investment ! You can further fool them by offering a certificate of
>authenticity - that's always a good one. For example I get about 100
>pounds sterling (or 165 dollars) for a small 10" x 6" abstract 'on the
>streets' and 800 pounds/1560 dollars from my agent (she gets 1200/1840)
>for a 36" x 36" canvas.
Oh yes, and I failed maths !
A.A. Raimes
writes
>In Europe, France in particular, art materials (paint, brushes, etc)
>will cost about twice what you are used to paying for them in the
>US.
>I was just there three weeks ago and did some checking on this very
>thing. IMHO, take what you can with you!
Except if you get to Spain where paintbrushes are a fraction of cost of
anywhere else - head for the hardware stores not the art stores and load
up. If you are an American and heading for London give me a call and I
can get materials for you as cheaply as in the States (she says tapping
her finger on the side of her nose).
Cheers !
peter nelson
>>I am currently a painting student, and decent, but definitely still a
>>student. I've seen some pretty terrible painters around some of the
>>tourist areas, and am wondering if anyone can advise me. I basically am
>>thinking of nailing my technical by painting hundreds of well-known
>>smallish (fit-in-your-luggage-size) oils/acrylics.
>>
>>1. Is it legal? say, near the eiffel tower, or neuswanstein, or venice?
>
>You will need to get a license in all these cases - which can be a
>problem for foreign visiting artists.
Could you elaborate on this? You need a LICENSE to PAINT?
What does this license cover? Is it really just a license for setting
up your easel on a certain spot, or is it license for painting that
subject or a license for selling art? I bring a sketchbook everywhere
I go - do I need a license for that?
---peter
Klaus Civegna
Hi,
If You dont sale Your paintings You dont need any licence.
Stay where You wont and paint.
Klaus from Europe/Italy
>
> ---peter
A.A. Raimes
<pne...@ultranet.com> writes
>Could you elaborate on this? You need a LICENSE to PAINT?
>What does this license cover? Is it really just a license for setting
>up your easel on a certain spot, or is it license for painting that
>subject or a license for selling art? I bring a sketchbook everywhere
>I go - do I need a license for that?
>
>
>---peter
>
Oh dear, you are just being pedantic now I think !
Street vendors license ... just as in most cities in the world...
obviously (!!!)
April Showers
>Could you elaborate on this? You need a LICENSE to PAINT?
>What does this license cover? Is it really just a license for setting
>up your easel on a certain spot, or is it license for painting that
>subject or a license for selling art? I bring a sketchbook everywhere
>I go - do I need a license for that?
I've traveled the world in my time, painting on site
using portable easels as well as using smaller items
like pen and ink sketch books and watercolors and
never once was I ever challenged by anyone to obtain
a license. I never asked to paint inside of art museums
but know that some do permit it and I suppose one must
pay a fee to someone too to do that. I can also imagine
that if someone were dumb enough to set up their easel
in a high traffic area or where it would otherwise
obstruct or interrupt public access that you would soon
be asked to move. On the other hand it's been more
years than I can to recall since I traveled extensively
so things in Europe may well have changed.
In London, as an example, they require a permit to SELL
your works at the weekend art show at Hyde Park so
licensing to sell is universal as far as I know. Makes
sense since when you begin selling you step into the
realm of business and the tax collectors.
peter nelson
>peter nelson schrieb:
>>> Could you elaborate on this? You need a LICENSE to PAINT?
>> What does this license cover? Is it really just a license for setting
>> up your easel on a certain spot, or is it license for painting that
>> subject or a license for selling art? I bring a sketchbook everywhere
>> I go - do I need a license for that?
>>
>
>If You dont sale Your paintings You dont need any licence.
>Stay where You wont and paint.
You mean if I don't sale them, there, right? I presume that
it's OK if I go back the US and sale them in the US. (the
gist of this last question is: is this license related to copyright
or intellectual property rights? Here in the US if you take
a photo of a piece of private property and sell that photo
for certain commercial uses the proprty owner can sue you).
>Klaus from Europe/Italy
---peter
peter nelson
A.A. Raimes wrote in message <+NpTrMAZ...@raimes.demon.co.uk>...
>>What does this license cover? Is it really just a license for setting
>>up your easel on a certain spot, or is it license for painting that
>>subject or a license for selling art? I bring a sketchbook everywhere
>>I go - do I need a license for that?
>>
>>
>>
>Oh dear, you are just being pedantic now I think !
>
>Street vendors license ... just as in most cities in the world...
>obviously (!!!)
No I really didn't understand. I didn't realize you were talking
about a license to merely SELL the paintings. I imagined
it had more to do with either a crowd-control issue - painters
blocking sidewalks or attracting crowds watching them, or
a property rights issue.
The latter may seem farfetched to someone outside the US, but
here in the US property owners have extensive rights regarding
the use of images of their property. I know more than one commercial
photographer was was accosted on a shoot because in the
BACKGROUND of his shoot was the owner's property. The
interesting thing was that the owners in these cases were not
demanding that the shoot be stopped; they simply wanted
MONEY for the use of their proprty in the picture. And the
courts have upheld cases like that.
---peter
A.A. Raimes
<pne...@ultranet.com> writes
>No I really didn't understand. I didn't realize you were talking
>about a license to merely SELL the paintings. I imagined
>it had more to do with either a crowd-control issue - painters
>blocking sidewalks or attracting crowds watching them, or
>a property rights issue.
Fair enough - only the advise I was giving was for Roger on selling his
work.
>
>The latter may seem farfetched to someone outside the US, but
>here in the US property owners have extensive rights regarding
>the use of images of their property. I know more than one commercial
>photographer was was accosted on a shoot because in the
>BACKGROUND of his shoot was the owner's property. The
>interesting thing was that the owners in these cases were not
>demanding that the shoot be stopped; they simply wanted
>MONEY for the use of their proprty in the picture. And the
>courts have upheld cases like that.
Not farfetched at all. I have just submitted the entire contents of my
Website, on disc, to my lawyer - who has sealed it, dated it and put it
in the stronghold as copyright protection. Just let anyone try and steal
one of my images to make greetings cards with !
Bob Parsons
>
> In article <370CF63C...@att.net>, Bob Parsons <?.?.re...@att.net>
> writes
>
> >In Europe, France in particular, art materials (paint, brushes, etc)
> >will cost about twice what you are used to paying for them in the
> >US.
> >I was just there three weeks ago and did some checking on this very
> >thing. IMHO, take what you can with you!
>
> Except if you get to Spain where paintbrushes are a fraction of cost of
> anywhere else - head for the hardware stores not the art stores and load
> up. If you are an American and heading for London give me a call and I
> can get materials for you as cheaply as in the States (she says tapping
> her finger on the side of her nose).
Thanks, good information!
Tom Hart
I assume that airlines prohibit turps or mineral spirits in luggage
(No?). For folks who do travel and oil paint: is it easy and/or
permissable to fly with all the other oil painting material (paints,
mediums, varnishes)?
I have no particular trip in mind at the moment, but in the future, I'd
certainly prefer to take as much of my own gear with me than to have to
go on a materials hunt upon arriving at my destination.
Thanks,
Tom
April Showers
>The latter may seem farfetched to someone outside the US, but
>here in the US property owners have extensive rights regarding
>the use of images of their property. I know more than one commercial
>photographer was was accosted on a shoot because in the
>BACKGROUND of his shoot was the owner's property. The
>interesting thing was that the owners in these cases were not
>demanding that the shoot be stopped; they simply wanted
>MONEY for the use of their proprty in the picture. And the
>courts have upheld cases like that.
I know of artists who make a living (or try to) by having their
art work photographed for a fee. You can find them in places
where public sidewalks are used for such enterprises, like the
Fisherman's Wharf area of San Francisco. I remember one young
man who had a car that was 'the first' that I ever heard of
that had been turned into a 'work of art' and he would park it
curbside and demand a 'donation' of any shutterbug that pointed
in his direction. There was another 'busker' who had a box
painted like a juke box who would pop out and tootle a tune
on a trumpet when coins were dropped in the slot. If a person
in the passing crowd pointed a camera his way he held up a
sign advising that photographer that he was not posing for
nothing.
On another note, I was working on a photographic essay and
was photographing the produce section inside of a grocery
store when I was stopped by the manager and told that their
interior decor was proprietary and I would have to give him
the film from the camera or face prosecution. I talked my
way out of that experience but it taught me that one MUST
ask permission and not assume that anything is 'free' when
taking photographs indoors.
April Showers
You are correct and an airline may well deny you a boarding
pass if you are trying to check a French Easel and they
fear the paints are flammable. I have not personally had
that problem but my traveling days with easel were many
years ago and things have changed. You're worst concern is
trying to find artist's supplies in a foreign country.
It takes some doing in some locales, even those with major
international airports. For example: you may well have to
travel half way across London to find an art supply store
only to find that they don't have what you need. I can
recall back in the late 1970's trying to find a pair of
coveralls in London -- required going to a TAILOR and
having them made to order if I wanted to pursue that avenue.
They were not available in any clothing store that I could
find.
A.A. Raimes
<nom...@aintnonesuch.com> writes
>For example: you may well have to
>travel half way across London to find an art supply store
>only to find that they don't have what you need. I can
>recall back in the late 1970's trying to find a pair of
>coveralls in London -- required going to a TAILOR and
>having them made to order if I wanted to pursue that avenue.
>They were not available in any clothing store that I could
>find.
>
*************** IMPORTANT PRESS RELEASE *********************
England finally has telephone lines installed -- the government hopes by
the year 2020 that they will have educated all the English on how to use
one and that by 2050 they may even have one installed in all homes, on
the streets and in hotel lobbies/bedrooms. Although a slightly ambitious
project, they are intending to publish the phone numbers of all art
suppliers under *art suppliers* in a book called the _Yellow Pages_.
*************** IMPORTANT PRESS RELEASE *********************
Like all unfamiliar places to the traveller, there is only one way to
find your way around a foreign city ... ask the natives ! *Coveralls*
are called *boiler suits* in England - the best places to buy them are
the army and navy surplus stores or any hardware/decorating store. Its
been like that for at least the last fifty years.
Regards.
peter nelson
> I remember one
young
>man who had a car that was 'the first' that I ever heard of
>that had been turned into a 'work of art' and he would park it
>curbside and demand a 'donation' of any shutterbug that pointed
>in his direction. There was another 'busker' who had a box
>painted like a juke box who would pop out and tootle a tune
>on a trumpet when coins were dropped in the slot. If a person
>in the passing crowd pointed a camera his way he held up a
>sign advising that photographer that he was not posing for
>nothing.
>
>On another note, I was working on a photographic essay and
>was photographing the produce section inside of a grocery
>store when I was stopped by the manager and told that their
>interior decor was proprietary and I would have to give him
>the film from the camera or face prosecution. I talked my
>way out of that experience but it taught me that one MUST
>ask permission and not assume that anything is 'free' when
>taking photographs indoors.
Yup, the rules are very strict and we live in a litigation-happy
society. Which puts me in mind of a question I posted here
several months ago and got exactly ONE response (and that
without any supporting info or attribution).
I was wondering what the model-release rules are for
paintings. In photography if you publish (even on the Web)
any recognizable photo of someone they can sue you for
unauthorized use of their image. (exceptions are made for
certain journalistic uses). But I see artists posting their
paintings and drawing of people all the time with no
suggestion that they have a release on file. One particularly
common thing seems to be to post figure-studies from
their life-drawing classes or studios. I've talked to a lot of
models who've told me this is a big worry of theirs.
Are the rules the same as in photography? How are they
affected by the skill or technique of the artist? I assume
that Ducahamp didn't need a release for "Nude Descending
a Staircase" (although it would make an interesting cartoon
to have a model who looked like that - all jagged lines and
geometric shapes - standing before the judge in a lawsuit
trial).
---peter
Charles Eicher
>
>In article <370f505f.0@news>, tj...@hamp.hampshire.edu says...
>>
>>Speaking of travelling and painting:
>>
>>I assume that airlines prohibit turps or mineral spirits in luggage
>>(No?). For folks who do travel and oil paint: is it easy and/or
>>permissable to fly with all the other oil painting material (paints,
>>mediums, varnishes)?
>>
>>I have no particular trip in mind at the moment, but in the future, I'd
>>certainly prefer to take as much of my own gear with me than to have to
>>go on a materials hunt upon arriving at my destination.
>
>You are correct and an airline may well deny you a boarding
>pass if you are trying to check a French Easel and they
>fear the paints are flammable. I have not personally had
>that problem but my traveling days with easel were many
>years ago and things have changed.
It works better if you don't tell them what's in the box. Better yet, carry your
paints and medium (they are nonflammable, by shipper's standards) and buy your
solvents locally. Best of all, try carrying watercolors. They're a lot easier to
travel with.
> ..You're worst concern is
>trying to find artist's supplies in a foreign country.
>It takes some doing in some locales, even those with major
>international airports.
That's ridiculous. I have never had trouble finding turpentine, it is sold
worldwide. I even found it easily available in a small fishing village in
northern Japan. But I was using watercolors so I didn't buy any.
> ..For example: you may well have to
>travel half way across London to find an art supply store
>only to find that they don't have what you need.
Or, you might find the local stores carry a variety of different materials that
are only available locally, opening you up to new methods and media.
>..I can
>recall back in the late 1970's trying to find a pair of
>coveralls in London -- required going to a TAILOR and
>having them made to order if I wanted to pursue that avenue.
>They were not available in any clothing store that I could
>find.
Anyone who can't paint because they don't have a perfect pair of coveralls is
not a real painter. Hell, I used to come home from work and paint in oils, while
still wearing my suit and tie.
Larry Seiler
coveralls is
> not a real painter. Hell, I used to come home from work and paint in
oils, while
> still wearing my suit and tie.
Spend five minutes in any book covering painters of the 19th century into
the early 20th...and you'll see the average "gentlemanly" painter wore
vests, ties, suit coats...even when traveling with a horse packed with
supplies out west! Imagine the dust....
peace,
Larry
Larry Seiler
artist's web site at- http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
WetCanvas Artists page-
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Gallery/S/Larry_Seiler/index.html
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
depends on the unreasonable man."
George Bernard Shaw
April Showers
>Spend five minutes in any book covering painters of the 19th century into
>the early 20th...and you'll see the average "gentlemanly" painter wore
>vests, ties, suit coats...even when traveling with a horse packed with
>supplies out west! Imagine the dust....
>
>peace,
>
>Larry
And you'll find that in 'the good old days' people traveled
often with steamer trunks full of their belongings.
Times change. Travelers today are more apt to have minimal
clothing and of a kind suited to easy care -- permanent
pressed etc.
April Showers
>
>April Showers wrote in message <370f5...@oracle.zianet.com>...
>>In article <7eldm0$4h8$1...@antiochus.ultra.net>, pne...@ultranet.com says...
>Which puts me in mind of a question I posted here
>several months ago and got exactly ONE response (and that
>without any supporting info or attribution).
>
>I was wondering what the model-release rules are for
>paintings. (snipped)
I imagine that the dirth of answers was due to the fact that
there are no legal requirements -- at least not in the sense
of regulatory ones. But the fact that a person can be sued
for using another person's image without permission has
landed many an 'artist/photographer' in the courts. There
are indeed books on artist legal matters that cover model
releases. Sorry I can't come up with any specific references
for you at the moment. I have always used a model release
for all those who I have employed. But a model posing for
art schools presumably has signed a release as a condition
of employment by the school that would cover all uses of
the 'art' forthcoming from students of the school.
The bottom line is, if you hire a model have them sign a
release. It need not be anything legally complicated, just
something that says the artist owns the right to publish
images of the model in whatever artistic medium the artist
choses. I always include and exclusionary clause that
prevents me from using actual photographic images so that
the models feel more comfortable knowing I'm not going to
sell the photos for pornographic purposes.
A touchier subject is use of under-age children as models.
There one better be especially careful in this day and time.
Parental releases are an absolute MUST and in these cases
I insist on a third-party witness signing the release.
April Showers
says...
>Like all unfamiliar places to the traveller, there is only one way to
>find your way around a foreign city ... ask the natives ! *Coveralls*
>are called *boiler suits* in England - the best places to buy them are
>the army and navy surplus stores or any hardware/decorating store. Its
>been like that for at least the last fifty years.
>Regards.
>Alison A Raimes
I was not a traveller. I was a resident! And I speak of
a time, I suspect, before you were born. I lived in
London from 1976 to 1979. You must come to the USA and
learn our shopping habits in order to understand my
problems in learning yours. I would not have looked for
'used clothing,' which is what is found in Army Surplus
stores in the USA. I was speaking of NEW clothing, like
one can find in any clothing store in the USA that handles
working person's clothing. In Blighty in those days even the
gardeners were still wearing suits with white shirts and
ties and shoes spit-polished -- perhaps they still do!
A.A. Raimes
<nom...@aintnonesuch.com> writes
>I was not a traveller. I was a resident! And I speak of
>a time, I suspect, before you were born. I lived in
>London from 1976 to 1979. You must come to the USA and
>learn our shopping habits in order to understand my
>problems in learning yours. I would not have looked for
>'used clothing,' which is what is found in Army Surplus
>stores in the USA. I was speaking of NEW clothing, like
>one can find in any clothing store in the USA that handles
>working person's clothing. In Blighty in those days even the
>gardeners were still wearing suits with white shirts and
>ties and shoes spit-polished -- perhaps they still do!
>
Silly answer. One must never assume anything about someone you read
across the Internet. You suspect VERY wrong. In 1976 I was 16 and had a
place at art school - boiler suits have always been available in
hardware stores and decorating suppliers but I couldn't afford new ones
so bought second hand ones from surplus stores. The information you have
given this group is wrong - it is very misleading.
Incidentally, for what it is worth, I have lived and worked in the USA
for several years of my life during the 1980's - in Ft Lauderdale,
Florida; Essex, Connecticut; Newport, Rhode Island and more recently
considered moving back out after being offered a business venture. Have
no fear - I know all about the US shopping habits.
Alison A Raimes
Patronising is for the terminally insecure.
ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
emat...@tomatoweb.com
"A.A. Raimes" <ali...@address.in.signature> wrote:
> Silly answer. One must never assume anything about someone you read
> across the Internet. You suspect VERY wrong. In 1976 I was 16 and had a
> place at art school - boiler suits have always been available in
> hardware stores and decorating suppliers but I couldn't afford new ones
> so bought second hand ones from surplus stores. The information you have
> given this group is wrong - it is very misleading.
>
> Incidentally, for what it is worth, I have lived and worked in the USA
> for several years of my life during the 1980's - in Ft Lauderdale,
> Florida; Essex, Connecticut; Newport, Rhode Island and more recently
> considered moving back out after being offered a business venture. Have
> no fear - I know all about the US shopping habits.
>
> Alison A Raimes
>
Now I'm really curious, Alison. Where does Mik Jaggers get his..?
Erik Mattila
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Larry Seiler
church, much less to paint in!
Just a jeans kinda guy.....which being a painter works as a good excuse!
;^)
--
Larry Seiler
artist's web site at- http://cwinc.net/larryseiler
WetCanvas Artists page-
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Gallery/S/Larry_Seiler/index.html
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
depends on the unreasonable man."
George Bernard Shaw
<snip>
John Haber
>make greetings cards with !
Hmm, Alison, I sense a challenge! :)
John
April Showers
says...
>boiler suits have always been available in
>hardware stores and decorating suppliers but I couldn't afford new ones
>so bought second hand ones from surplus stores. The information you have
>given this group is wrong - it is very misleading.
Silliness begets silliness I suppose. It suddenly ocurred to me
that perhaps you don't know that in the USA there are two types
of uniforms -- one called OVERalls and the other called COVERalls.
The former were indeed available in the UK in my time there and
would undoubtedly be sold in paint store. They are NOT what I
was looking for -- coveralls. The latter are full body uniforms
with sleeves. The former (overalls) are held up by suspenders
or braces and are bib fronted. Overalls are the preferred uniform
of commercial painters, carpentars, and farmers. Coveralls are
preferred by garage mechanics and industrial workers. I like
the coveralls because they afford full body protection from sun
and paint and whatever and are easily put on over other clothing.
So aside from a cultural and language difference between us,
there may be a difference in clothing types too we're trying
to discuss.
>Have no fear - I know all about the US shopping habits.
Another funny colloquialism? Why should I have fear?
If you understand USA shopping convenience then I cannot
see how you could say I was misleading anyone when I suggested
that the same convenience is NOT inherent in the UK.
It was improving remarkably when I last was there, with more
of the USA type supermarkets being built, but getting to
them in London when one is dependent on public transportation
and back-packing a week's worth of groceries home is not my
idea of convenience. Brits are used to shopping daily.
Americans rely heavily on their cars to transport huge
basketsfull of goods home -- I'd like to see you carry
what an American housewife routinely carries on the bus
or underground in Blighty.
Charles Eicher
>Silliness begets silliness I suppose. It suddenly ocurred to me
>that perhaps you don't know that in the USA there are two types
>of uniforms -- one called OVERalls and the other called COVERalls.
>The former were indeed available in the UK in my time there and
>would undoubtedly be sold in paint store. They are NOT what I
>was looking for -- coveralls. The latter are full body uniforms
>with sleeves. The former (overalls) are held up by suspenders
>or braces and are bib fronted. Overalls are the preferred uniform
>of commercial painters, carpentars, and farmers. Coveralls are
>preferred by garage mechanics and industrial workers. I like
>the coveralls because they afford full body protection from sun
>and paint and whatever and are easily put on over other clothing.
It was the cool new-wave DEVO look back in the 80s. I think I even had a pair of
red coveralls.
>So aside from a cultural and language difference between us,
>there may be a difference in clothing types too we're trying
>to discuss.
I'd be just as irritated to get paint on my coveralls as if I got paint on any
other clothes. I have some clothes that are basically rags, if I have to do
something messy.
>>Have no fear - I know all about the US shopping habits.
Yeah right. You should see the local store where the Amish farmers come in to
shop. A whole wing of overalls and coveralls. Would you like a 50 pound bag of
ammonium nitrate fertilizer with those army boots and overalls?
A.A. Raimes
writes
>>
>Now I'm really curious, Alison. Where does Mik Jaggers get his..?
>
>Erik Mattila
Duuunnnnno maaaaaan, mayyyyybeeee one of his maaaaates maddddde them for
'im.
A.A. Raimes
<nom...@aintnonesuch.com> writes
>
>Silliness begets silliness I suppose.
Yes, and most people here are probably wondering where this *nah nah ne
nah nah* school yard mentality has come from.
My thoughts: the myths and stereotyping of cultures has made up a large
part of my research projects over the last seven years, particularly in
relation to art in South America (focusing on Chile). My ideas and
attitudes have changed drastically in that time from thinking that we
(western society) could bring something to those countries, to realising
that in fact by doing that we would be taking away. My perspectives have
broadened partly as a result of studying art but in most parts from
listening to the people of different cultures who are determined to
break away from stereotyping and to demolish the hegemonic structure
that has excluded them from partaking in mainstream modernity. Maybe
that makes sense to a few people here.
Boiler suits (coveralls) and dungarees (overalls) have become the issue.
Not such a silly one when analysed. Misunderstandings and
misinterpretations have often been central in wars and religions based
on a set of myths set out in one Book - the struggle for power and the
feeling of being threatened has resulted in much bloodshed. Here we have
someone, who despite living amidst a culture for three years, is
prepared to set down a story based on their experiences that does not
have any grounding (except from their individual experiences) but which
could well become a myth - one person then passing on that information
to another. The shopping trends of another culture are brought to you
from one viewpoint - from someone who was not able to adapt to living in
that culture and whose story now *laughs* at that culture through a
*little tale* passed onto a world audience. Coveralls and overalls
becomes then the issue to *prove* a point and two cultures engage in
verbal fisticuffs. History personified.
I, personally, am committed to challenging any hierarchy that strives
towards a monoculture as illustrated in this feeble squabble. The global
village that so many talk about can only be successful if cultures are
seen as equal and inherent in their value. Myths and stereotyping must
end - now.
Alison A Raimes
A.A. Raimes
<jh...@columbia.edu> writes
Absolutely John .... challenges are like taking the mind for a walk ...
it needs regular exercise and emptying of some of the toxins that
contaminate all the new ideas. You go for it ! maybe I will take it as a
compliment anyway.
Cheers chuck ! (affectionate north English term for 'bro)
emat...@tomatoweb.com
"A.A. Raimes" <ali...@address.in.signature> wrote:
> In article <7erhbp$hkl$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, emat...@tomatoweb.com
> writes
>
> >>
> >Now I'm really curious, Alison. Where does Mik Jaggers get his..?
> >
> >Erik Mattila
>
> Duuunnnnno maaaaaan, mayyyyybeeee one of his maaaaates maddddde them for
> 'im.
>
sentence. (but that's what I thought -- a coverall tailor with one purpose in
life.)
Erik
A.A. Raimes
writes
>>
>I take it you were showing plenty of teeth and tongue as you uttered that
>sentence. (but that's what I thought -- a coverall tailor with one purpose in
>life.)
>
>Erik
Didn't he wear dungarees ?? must have been the overall tailor then ....
Alison A Raimes ;-)
ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
April Showers
says...
>I, personally, am committed to challenging any hierarchy that strives
>towards a monoculture as illustrated in this feeble squabble. The global
>village that so many talk about can only be successful if cultures are
>seen as equal and inherent in their value. Myths and stereotyping must
>end - now.
>Alison A Raimes
I always find it interesting when someone mounts their
soap box and fails to take along a mirror. You are
as guilty of 'assuming' as am I. I did NOT fail to adapt
to anyone's culture anywhere that I've gone. To the
contrary. I am VERY adaptable. You know literally NOTHING
about who I am, where I've been, or where I am now.
And likely you could not care less.
You're preaching to a preacher.
Reflect on it dear.
A.A. Raimes
<nom...@aintnonesuch.com> writes
>
>I always find it interesting when someone mounts their
>soap box and fails to take along a mirror. You are
>as guilty of 'assuming' as am I. I did NOT fail to adapt
>to anyone's culture anywhere that I've gone. To the
>contrary. I am VERY adaptable. You know literally NOTHING
>about who I am, where I've been, or where I am now.
>And likely you could not care less.
>You're preaching to a preacher.
>Reflect on it dear.
>
My sincere apologies to you - in no way was it intended as personally as
you took it. I guess I am just used to healthy debate where throwing
down gauntlets are usually snapped up by equally energetic debaters.
Please be assured that for fear of offending you again I will not
respond to any of your posts in the future.
Regards.
Norman Strand~
the models in a life drawing class. The school newspaper published the
photographs and was sued by the models. The models won a large judgement
from the school.
Norman Strand
--
Intel, Corp.
5000 W. Chandler Blvd.
Chandler, AZ 85226
April Showers
says...
>
>There was a case at Phoenix College a few years ago where a person
photographed
>the models in a life drawing class. The school newspaper published the
>photographs and was sued by the models. The models won a large judgement
>from the school.
>
>Norman Strand
Exactly why it's so important to have a legal release that
would cover this sort of eventuality when employing models.
Any newspaper can be sued for using someone's image without
their specific approval. Most periodicals are very cautious
about such publishing but it's understandable that one
run by students might not adhere to the legalities.
peter nelson
>There was a case at Phoenix College a few years ago where
>a person photographed the models in a life drawing class.
>The school newspaper published the photographs and was
>sued by the models. The models won a large judgement
>from the school.
Sure, but this is straightforward. The rules on photography
and model releases are well-established. My question pertained
to drawing and painting.
One of the things I find mildly disturbing is that there is
consistently so little response on this board to the
very QUESTION. This board is filled with both amateur
and professional artists and one might think that the basic
laws affecting their activities would be second nature to
them, especially seeing how outspokenly knowledgable
they are (or claim to be) on other matters.
---peter