Dada, Surrealism, and parrots
Sharon Barcone
was leaving only that thread of discussion that had gotten so far from the
original post. But!
My brief reference to dada and surrealism was obviously not made clear
enough. My point was Dali's movement from Surrealism back to classical
techniques and themes after trips to Italy in the1940's, and his idea of
joining science and religion on canvas. However, Alison's remarks on Dada
struck a chord and with a little investigating I remembered why.
There is a book titled "The Art Book", published by Phaidon Press Limited,
London 1994. In a section called "Glossary of artistic movements" there is a
reference to Dada that includes:
"Dada was a violent reaction to the snobbery and traditionalism of the art
establishment: its members were ready to use any means within their
imagination to cause outrage amongst the bourgeoisie. "
I believe Alison parroted that statement in true parrot fashion.
Further stated: "A typical Dada work of art was the "ready-made",
essentially an ordinary object taken from its original context and put on
display as "art".
Now that's a real push toward artist freedom, wouldn't you say?
And finally says: "The Dada movement, with its cult of the irrational, was
important in preparing the ground for the advent of Surrealism in the
1920's. (Paris)
Maybe my statement that Surrealism "grew" from Dada was misleading. But my
point was the clear influence of dada on the surrealist movement. How?
Surrealism was a movement that took artistic freedom to new levels by
combining the real and unreal into a super reality hence the name
surrealism. They to wanted to buck the status quo, and "shock value" was
highly embraced. They also stupified the art critics of the day by becoming
extremely popular in spite of tactics like shocking sexual imagery and
ridicule of popular public figures. According to "The Art Book" :
"In the works of it's main theorists, the writer Andre Breton, (who wrote
the Surrealist Manifesto), its aim was to "resolve the previously
contradictory conditions of dream and reality."
Finally, anyone interested in discussing classical painting techniques might
want to take a look at
http:/www.1art.com/ . That original post from Alexei Antonov leads there and
you can check out "Free oil painting lesson". These techniques being
discussed refer to 16 and17th century techniques. If you read this lesson
completely (with the exception of the onion) you may understand why I feel
this is an important body of study for an artist. Though I do not
necessarily feel one must draw white plaster casts for a year to understand
value, I do believe understanding value will aid any artist regardless of
the school or style one paints.
Sharon
Jaxart
>Though I do not
>necessarily feel one must draw white plaster casts for a year to understand
>value, I do believe understanding value will aid any artist regardless of
>the school or style one paints.
I think if you argue for what you believe about classical training as
it applies to PAINTING, then you have 'something of a point.' If you
firmly believe that only the traditional/classical is valid as art,
then read no further. Mani will welcome you to his fold.
What Sharon wrote in reference to Dada's influences on subsequent art
contradicts her later inference that one would benefit from classical
academic training. Classical thinking may be fine
for classical subject matter but with "ART" being anything and everything
the "ARTIST" says it is, there is a necessity for rethinking traditional
learning or teaching in the arts, and most art schools today
recognize that fact.
To say that traditional academy training is either essential or
helpful to someone wanting to put dead things in tanks of formaldehyde
just doesn't wash. Nor does it wash for someone wanting to mimick the
A/E movement where even 'design' classes might be inhibiting rather
than of any value to understanding how to create A/E innovatively.
It's important to people 'thinking' about art today to think in new
and exciting ways, not just traditionally.
The art world, like the technological one requires 'explosive' thought
in order that it retain its vitality and not become stagnant.
In summation, there is not a single pathway that leads to NEW ART,
but rather pathways yet to be discovered.
--
============================================================
For a unique art experience visit:
http://www.zianet.com/jaxart/index.html
============================================================
Sharon Barcone
*What Sharon wrote in reference to Dada's influences on subsequent art
*contradicts her later inference that one would benefit from classical
*academic training. Classical thinking may be fine
*for classical subject matter but with "ART" being anything and everything
*the "ARTIST" says it is, there is a necessity for rethinking traditional
*learning or teaching in the arts, and most art schools today
*recognize that fact.
Classical training is about so much more the how to paint a realist piece of
artwork. It is learning about how these painters of the part achieved the
effects with paint that they did. It is about the understanding of pigments
and oil. It is about creating art that will stand the test of time by
respecting the physics and chemical properties of your media.
Yet there is a growing number of artists who complain the art schools today
won't even provide the most basic elements of who to make art. Why else
would realist art schools have such vast growing numbers.
I am a self-taught artist and I struggled for years of trial and error,
practice, practice, and more practice.
I learned much this way. But I have also learned by studying what others
have done before me. I want the widest base of knowledge I can have. Of
course I refer to painting, it's what I do. But a sculptor friend of mine
said I would be good a sculptor because I have a good understanding of form.
I believe it was my study of value that has helped me portray this. Also a
year of drafting in high school didn't hurt.
*To say that traditional academy training is either essential or
*helpful to someone wanting to put dead things in tanks of formaldehyde
*just doesn't wash. Nor does it wash for someone wanting to mimick the
*A/E movement where even 'design' classes might be inhibiting rather
*than of any value to understanding how to create A/E innovatively.
I do not believe that "Conceptual Art" gives legitimacy to the unskilled
artist, merely a category to be placed into. I believe much of the public
criticism against art to due the conceptual.
*It's important to people 'thinking' about art today to think in new
*and exciting ways, not just traditionally.
The key word here is "just".
*In summation, there is not a single pathway that leads to NEW ART,
*but rather pathways yet to be discovered.
I agree completely, it's just that I think some of those pathways lead to
the past.
Sharon
mdeli
>In article <uBRGp9Rk$GA.239@cpmsnbbsa04>, Sharon...@email.msn.com says...
>
>>Though I do not
>>necessarily feel one must draw white plaster casts for a year to understand
>>value, I do believe understanding value will aid any artist regardless of
>>the school or style one paints.
>
>I think if you argue for what you believe about classical training as
>it applies to PAINTING, then you have 'something of a point.' If you
>firmly believe that only the traditional/classical is valid as art,
>then read no further. Mani will welcome you to his fold.
This is the usual nonsense.
The person who learns craft and technique doesn't have to conform to
any style. However the person who doesn't learn his craft has to
conform to Dada which was washed up by 1923. The main thing he has to
consider is how he can create a new put-on. Should he take a hot lead
enema on top of the Eiffel Tower or out-goul his competitors by doing
a geek thing, etc.
Most all this stuff is little more than antiquated Dada which depends
on endless talk. It only fools a minority of artzy fartzies.
The so-called artist who can't draw is presently in. A few win the
Modern Art Lottery and the rest are in trouble. No problem. The more
artists there are who don't know their craft, the more work for those
who do.
Mani DeLi
...no skill no art
Tired of Modern Art? Check out my web page!
http://www.interlog.com/~hugod/