Watercolor paper buckles
Charles Eicher
>
>How can artists prevent watercolour paper from buckling?
>
>I tried tacking the edges of the watercolor paper to a hard surface with
>large thumbtacks, as suggested by a pro and a painting book, but that
>doesn't help enough, because the paper buckles up over the entire
>surface area, and eventually even buckles where the tacks are too.
>
>I tried gessoing the back of the paper to prevent buckling, as suggested
>by the experts, but that doesn't seem to help much, or not enough.
>
>I tried gluing a sheet of watercolor paper to a piece of gessoed art
>board, but after applying a lot of water to the paper, this sandwich
>curved like a bow. Same thing happened when I glued watercolor board to
>gessoed art board.
What is wrong with the classical technique of gluing the edges with brown paper
adhesive tape? It works fine, as long as you use the type of paper tape with
adhesive you have to wet. Masking tape won't work. Use wood substrates, shellac
it if you need to avoid staining from the wood.
>So I invented my own method, which was to temporarily bond the paper
>onto a sheet of corrugated plastic with 3M 77 Adhesive Spray. But after
>I resumed painting, the paper lifted off again. So I sprayed both
>surfaces with the spray according to the can's instructions for a
>permanent bond, applying heavy weights to the sandwich and waiting
>several hours to allow better bonding. This time, the adhering worked
>better, but the paper is gradually coming off again as I paint more washes.
That's a horrible technique. Adhesive sprays will do nasty things to the paper,
and make it deteriorate more rapidly.
I have been experimenting with removable adhesives for sticking paper to a
substrate, as part of an obscure printing process. I have made dozens of
experiments, and all of them are basically failures. The best results so far
came from drymounting paper to formica. The problem is that you need a drymount
press to adhere the paper, and drymount presses just don't come in huge sizes
(and the smaller ones are extremely expensive). Sometimes waxy residue gets on
the front of the paper which won't do much good for watercolors. And then
there's the problem of removing the paper from the backing board when the work
is finished, which requires another application of heat in the drymount press.
And after all this, you're left with a piece of paper that is partly permeated
with waxy drymount residue. My framer asserts that drymount isn't archival, and
my prints are archival, so I abandoned this method. There were a lot of other
problems with this process that I won't go into, so just don't even bother with
this technique unless you like repeating a failed experiment. But if you DO
manage to get this to work, you must tell me how.
>Also, I've had a headache all day -- something that's very rare for me
>-- and I suspect it may be from the fumes of the spray gradually
>evaporating from the sprayed material, so I'm not sure if this spray
>method is benign to my health.
No, it certainly isn't good for your health. Read the label, or ask 3M for a
Material Safety Data Sheet. That stuff will give you liver cancer, its extremely
carcinogenic.
>Any good suggestions?
Use the old tried and true methods. Glue the edges with paper tape. The paper
has to be wet when it is glued, because it shrinks when it dries. That will help
eliminate buckling.
Marilyn Welch
to pin down the wc paper on gesso-coated fibre board?
2. After the painting is done, try wetting the back of it lightly
and pressing it between large sheets of blotting paper.
3. What's so wrong with a few buckles anyway? once the painting is
attached to a backing with museum tape, it stays pretty flat.
Or if you are still into mats, the mat holds it flat in the frame.
M.
On Sat, 8 Jan 2000, Tony Wypkema wrote:
> How can artists prevent watercolour paper from buckling?
>
> I tried tacking the edges of the watercolor paper to a hard surface with
> large thumbtacks, as suggested by a pro and a painting book, but that
> doesn't help enough, because the paper buckles up over the entire
> surface area, and eventually even buckles where the tacks are too.
>
> I tried gessoing the back of the paper to prevent buckling, as suggested
> by the experts, but that doesn't seem to help much, or not enough.
>
> I tried gluing a sheet of watercolor paper to a piece of gessoed art
> board, but after applying a lot of water to the paper, this sandwich
> curved like a bow. Same thing happened when I glued watercolor board to
> gessoed art board.
>
> So I invented my own method, which was to temporarily bond the paper
> onto a sheet of corrugated plastic with 3M 77 Adhesive Spray. But after
> I resumed painting, the paper lifted off again. So I sprayed both
> surfaces with the spray according to the can's instructions for a
> permanent bond, applying heavy weights to the sandwich and waiting
> several hours to allow better bonding. This time, the adhering worked
> better, but the paper is gradually coming off again as I paint more washes.
>
> Also, I've had a headache all day -- something that's very rare for me
> -- and I suspect it may be from the fumes of the spray gradually
> evaporating from the sprayed material, so I'm not sure if this spray
> method is benign to my health.
>
> Any good suggestions?
>
> Tony
>
>
Tony Wypkema
Mary-Margaret Moon
In early December someone else asked the same question and for what it's
worth, I posted the following reply :
..... I try and avoid using sheets of watercolour paper and whenever
possible use watercolour "blocks" which means that when the work is dry, I
simply insert a knife and cut off a perfectly stretched piece, ready for
framing ....
Shortly after posting the above, I closed down my computer for the
dreaded period and never saw a reply so hope that it was of some use to
someone somewhere!
Cheers!
MMM
Milly N Yehm
says...
>
>How can artists prevent watercolour paper from buckling?
What everyone so far who has replied seems to have
missed is the fact that you say nothing about having
soaked the paper before tacking it down. That is the
entire secret to keeping paper from buckling. I argued
in the recent thread until I got tired of everyone
telling me I knew not what I was talking about.
All I can tell those doubting Thomases is that
success is its own reward. And as Eicher suggests, I
use the traditional method of taping my already
saturated paper to a stiff board. I end up with a
piece of 140 lb paper that is tight as a snare
drum head, and stays that way until I am finished
with the painting, soak the paper tape to remove
it, and end up with a clean white border all around
the edge of my painting.
Charles Eicher
>
>In article <3876881A...@design-write.com>, thepa...@design-write.com
>says...
>>
>>How can artists prevent watercolour paper from buckling?
>
>What everyone so far who has replied seems to have
>missed is the fact that you say nothing about having
>soaked the paper before tacking it down. That is the
>entire secret to keeping paper from buckling. I argued
>in the recent thread until I got tired of everyone
>telling me I knew not what I was talking about.
Yes, I believe I specifically mentioned soaking the paper.
>All I can tell those doubting Thomases is that
>success is its own reward. And as Eicher suggests, I
>use the traditional method of taping my already
>saturated paper to a stiff board. I end up with a
>piece of 140 lb paper that is tight as a snare
>drum head, and stays that way until I am finished
>with the painting, soak the paper tape to remove
>it, and end up with a clean white border all around
>the edge of my painting.
Lots of my printmaker friends dry their prints by stretching the damp paper on
boards with glued paper tape. They just cut the paper inside the taped edges. Of
course you have to plan for a little extra margin, because you lose an inch or 2
under the tape..
Charles Eicher
printmakers would tape down paper, as I alluded to in my previous message. But
this person did something really stupid, emailing me asking for a response but
providing an invalid email address, "do...@tryto.emailme.com"..
I took the time to write a detailed answer, and only upon receiving a bounce
message did I discover the invalid address. I could easily post those remarks
here on usenet, they would have been of great interest as it contained studio
methods from some of the greatest printmaking atelier in the US. However, I'm
not going to because you pissed me off.
Listen here, Mr. Dont try to email me, you're a total idiot and you wasted my
time. Don't expect any answers when you abuse people in this manner..
Tony Wypkema
> >How can artists prevent watercolour paper from buckling?
Charles Eicher wrote:
> What is wrong with the classical technique of gluing the edges with brown paper
> adhesive tape? It works fine, as long as you use the type of paper tape with
> adhesive you have to wet. Masking tape won't work. Use wood substrates, shellac
> it if you need to avoid staining from the wood.
Thanks, Charles. I didn't know about that technique. I'll shop for the tape.
> >Also, I've had a headache all day -- something that's very rare for me
> >-- and I suspect it may be from the fumes of the spray gradually
> >evaporating from the sprayed material, so I'm not sure if this spray
> >method is benign to my health.
>
> No, it certainly isn't good for your health. Read the label, or ask 3M for a
> Material Safety Data Sheet. That stuff will give you liver cancer, its extremely
> carcinogenic.
Yikes! I don't want to use it regularly in that case!
Of course I did read the label. It would certainly be foolish to apply a
chemical to one's artwork without reading the label!
The label says to spray in a well ventilated area. It doesn't say that
the spray is still evaporating toxic fumes several hours after spraying.
(I moved the painting back into my studio about an hour after spraying,
but apparently that wasn't long enough for most of the fumes to
evaporate. I couldn't smell the fumes, so I assumed -- apparently
incorrectly -- that most of them had evaporated after an hour or so.)
The headache went away later that day, after the 3M spray had dried for
several hours, so I'm pretty sure the headache was caused by the fumes
of the spray.
Tony
Tony Wypkema
>
> 1. Have you tried using many small map pins
> to pin down the wc paper on gesso-coated fibre board?
I'm think that by fibre board, you mean artboard, which is masonite
panels. I pinned the paper with pins or tacks to corrugated cardboard
and, for the latest one, corrugated plastic. I thought the masonite
would be too hard to stick the pins into.
> 2. After the painting is done, try wetting the back of it lightly
> and pressing it between large sheets of blotting paper.
Okay; I've noted that.
> 3. What's so wrong with a few buckles anyway? once the painting is
> attached to a backing with museum tape, it stays pretty flat.
> Or if you are still into mats, the mat holds it flat in the frame.
The paint runs down from the high parts of the paper and pools in the
low areas, even pooling in low areas that I hadn't pre-wetted. The
buckling causes me to lose control over where I want the paint to go. I
know that some looseness of the paint flow is to be expected with fluid
acrylics, but with the buckling, there's too much looseness, and I can't
control the paint flow enough.
Thanks, Marilyn.
Tony
Tony Wypkema
> >
> > large thumbtacks, as suggested by a pro and a painting book, but that
> > doesn't help enough, because the paper buckles up over the entire
> > surface area, and eventually even buckles where the tacks are too.
>
>
> It sounds as if you may be using cheap "student grade" or lightweight
> watercolor paper. It also suggests that you may be mistaking watercolor
> painting with papier-mache. Don't get the paper so wet that it tries to
> turn back into pulp.
>
> Heavy watercolor paper (140 pounds and up) is less prone to buckling.
>
> Really heavy watercolor paper (300 pound) probably won't buckle at all.
>
I'm using Arches and Bockingford paper, both of which are 300-pound.
> Watercolor blocks (cited in another reply) prevent buckling.
I find that I have add several washes to most areas of the paper
(allowing the paper to dry in between wetting) to get the colors the way
I want them. After I've wetted the paper several times, the paper starts
to stink, and then I know I've soaked the paper a lot.
>
> Stretching your paper (wet the paper, apply it to a board, tape the edges
> down with gummed paper tape, wait for it to dry then start painting)
> works also. This is a time tested technique that works. Why screw with it?
I was told by several people that the watercolor paper I'm using is
heavy enough that it doesn't have to be 'stretched.
I had considered buying a watercolor painting book to help me to learn
about techniques like this, but didn't because half of the suggestions
wouldn't apply to fluid acrylic painting, since fluid acrylics are a
different medium and aren't water-soluble after drying. I have a couple
of good acrylic painting books, and one of them has a couple of brief
chapters on fluid acrylic painting, but I didn't find information on
this classic technique of pre-soaking that you suggest.
> If the cost of quality materials puts you off, get on line and look up
> some of the mail order art supply dealers. You usually come out ahead
> even after shipping, and there's a much better selection than, say,
> Micahel's or your local stationery store.
>
> I've used (and had decent experience) with the following. Prices and
> selection vary, and some of these outlets have their own "house brand"
> which are good quality and very competitive with name brand. Always
> verify that the papers and other materials are archival. Shop around.
>
> http://www.aswexpress.com
> http://www.redpig.com <- fast friendly service
> http://www.dickblick.com <- huge selection, mind boggling in fact
> http://www.misterart.com
> http://www.mollyhawkins.com <- huge range of house brand papers,
> and fast shipping!!
> http://www.dixieart.com
>
> I've got paper catalogs for the following ones but haven't ordered from
> them yet:
>
> http://www.rexart.com
> http://www.utrechtart.com
I try to shop at quality art stores and try to get only fine materials.
I like to shop in person, so I can see and feel the products and
compare. With paper, for example, I can compare the weights, colors,
texture and size of the papers when I shop in person. So these links
that you have kindly provided would not be of use to me, but with so
many hundreds of readers of these letters, perhaps some other readers
can benefit from them.
Thank you, John.
Tony
Tony Wypkema
>
> Hi!
> In early December someone else asked the same question and for what it's
> worth, I posted the following reply :
> ..... I try and avoid using sheets of watercolour paper and whenever
> possible use watercolour "blocks" which means that when the work is dry, I
> simply insert a knife and cut off a perfectly stretched piece, ready for
> framing ....
The watercolor blocks may be good for some of my paintings. But their
size is limited; the biggest one I can find is 18 by 24 inches. The last
painting I painted was 29 inches long.
Do these 'blocks' not need to be pre-soaked and taped with brown tape,
as described by others in this chain?
Tony
Chris
Tony Wypkema wrote:
>
> How can artists prevent watercolour paper from buckling?
>
Have you ever tried using alligator board? (or has any one else reading
this ng?) Some people swear by it...
Chris
--
Artwork: http://www.gammarat.com/Artists/ChrisB
StudioTour: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/brobeck
Tony Wypkema
> >
> > How can artists prevent watercolour paper from buckling?
> >
> Have you ever tried using alligator board? (or has any one else reading
> this ng?) Some people swear by it...
>
I haven't. What is it? How do you use it? Where do you get it?
Tony
Nita Leland
a tendency to work loose. Some artists use the board without stretching.
They wet the paper on both sides and keep it wet while working so it will
stick to the board. While it's still wet, but before the painting is
finished, they staple it down so it will dry flat. That might work if you
don't rewet the paper a lot.
--
Nita
ni...@nitaleland.com
Exploring Color Web Site http://www.nitaleland.com
"What's New!" http://www.nitaleland.com/new.htm
Chris <bro...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:387E8734...@ns.sympatico.ca...
>
>
> Tony Wypkema wrote:
> >
> > How can artists prevent watercolour paper from buckling?
> >
>
> Have you ever tried using alligator board? (or has any one else reading
> this ng?) Some people swear by it...
>