Manifestos
Mattison
Mattison
William DeRaymond
>I can not fathom - not one person in here has an opinion on Manifestos?
>
>My god - a first -
>
>Not even green? Ross?
>
>Mattison
>
I recently put up a website which includes An Artist's Manifest/The Taoof
Painting. It also includes what I consider to be a great statement on
style By Antonio Salemme, a Master Sculptor and Painter. Of course I
recommend you checking it out.
As I have written a manifesto, of course, I think there is some value
to it. They each must stand on their own merits or fall on the lack of.
Mine is meant as sort of psychological/spiritual homebase. I felt
inspired to write it around 1984, when I was in the throes of a deep
personal transfformation through the art. I feel this manifesto may have
some value for others which is certainly a large part of why I wrote it.
Also as a point of potential recognition and community and discussion.
In any case, I throw my bread on the waters....
--
William DeRaymond/Artist
WorldLightProductions
http://www.worldlightproductions.com/~draymond/
'The abstract nature of reality is the source of beauty.'- William
James P. Rowell
>In article <mattartD...@netcom.com> mat...@netcom.com (Mattison) writes:
>>I can not fathom - not one person in here has an opinion on Manifestos?
>
>you were posting someone else's phone number on alt.sex involving panties
>multiple times, advertising continuously about your business, responding to
>your own posts, and quoting articles in their entirety and tacking on some
>one-liner on the end, and to use this self-thread as an example - asking
>questions that you obviously have an opinion on rather than posting the
>opinion.
Maybe there's room for cutting Matti some slack around here. Her flame-fest
was not terribly welcomed, I agree. However, all the negative points you
mention above were directly involved with that one incident. So if we can
forgive and forget then we can proceed on with more important matters.
Let me just say that we all do stupid things, and there has never been
correlations between anyone's behaviour and their abilities as an artist.
Jackson Pollock was an alcoholic and often an ass**** for example.
WRT her "advertising continuously", the claim is somewhat unfounded.
This group is about fine-art issues. Notifying people about openings
IMO is welcomed information. You (apearlma) include a www link in
your mail, which is advertising, but again, a welcomed form. Enough said.
---
The issue of the Manifesto I find interesting. From what I understand,
I suppose in today's corporate world we could call it a mission statement
put out by a group of artists with similar goals and ideas about art.
Is this accurate? I haven't ever read any groups manifesto's, but I'm
going to guess that I could find one in Breton's writings about surrealism.
I've gotten a lot out of reading papers or books written by artists
about art, and the manifesto seems to be one example of this. I'll
echo Mattison's sentiments, "anyone got any opinions on this issue?"
If that's too general a question, then "Has anyone read any good ones?"
"Have any artists manifesto's been historically significant?", "Have
they added to the art or are they extraneous?", "Are there any recent
schools of artistic thought out there summarized in such a writing?"
..etc.
James.
dyk...@bvu.edu
presentation of their motives.
Dennis L. Dykema
Mattison
: In article <mattartD...@netcom.com> mat...@netcom.com (Mattison) writes:
: >I can not fathom - not one person in here has an opinion on Manifestos?
: >Not even green? Ross?
: >Mattison
: I'm not certain about the rest of rec.arts.fine, but I'll hazard a guess:
: After you dragged a flame-fest into rec.arts.fine that involved you saying
: you were posting someone else's phone number on alt.sex involving panties
: multiple times, advertising continuously about your business, responding to
: your own posts, and quoting articles in their entirety and tacking on some
: one-liner on the end, and to use this self-thread as an example - asking
: questions that you obviously have an opinion on rather than posting the
: opinion.
: You might want to consider the possibility that opinions on *manifestos* are
: not the problem...
: Andy
: --
: Andy Pearlman - artwork at http://tsb.weschke.com/iiw/gallery/pearlman_a.html
: apea...@panix.com
: Deus Ex Machina found to be Gerbil in a Wheel.
Sorry Pearlman -
You got the cluck - gossip all wrong if your gonna be my net press agent -
Please please be accurate!
Thanks 4 the Press Pearlman -
I'm sure you'll love my NYC Review -
I'll post it for you in 2 languages -
Maybe the pearl is green 2?
Mattison T. FitzGerald
c u in Italy Pearl baby
Phil Morse
>I've gotten a lot out of reading papers or books written by artists
>about art, and the manifesto seems to be one example of this. I'll
>echo Mattison's sentiments, "anyone got any opinions on this issue?"
>If that's too general a question, then "Has anyone read any good ones?"
>"Have any artists manifesto's been historically significant?", "Have
>they added to the art or are they extraneous?", "Are there any recent
>schools of artistic thought out there summarized in such a writing?"
>..etc.
>
>James.
>
The most frequently cited example of a manifesto I recall is the series
of futurist manifestos published by Marinetti in Le Figaro in 1910. I
say series because there were manifestos on poetry, painting, technical
painting, etc. Were they historically significant? Yes. Futurism
became a major movement before the war, with artists such as
Severini, Carra and Boccioni expressing what was called a universal
dynamism emphasizing change and movement and the advent of the machine
age. Futurism's effects and ideas were carried through into
Expressionism, Dada and Surrealism. In reading some of their statements
I find some that seem universally accepted now, if they weren't then.
Here's one -- We Declare that all forms of imitation must be despised,
all forms of originality glorified. Others seem strident, didactic and
bombastic -- not unusual qualities for documents that are usually
associated with political intentions. How about this one -- We declare
against the nude in painting, as nauseous and as tedious as adultery in
literature. You can find these statements and more in Chipp's Theories of
Modern Art.
Phil
Clem
>I haven't ever read any groups manifesto's, but I'm
>going to guess that I could find one in Breton's writings about surrealism.
You could find several. A good starter is the Surrealist Manifesto of
1924. Breton is an excellent example of someone who will be
remembered more for his manifestoes than anything else he produced.
A good manifesto has more to do with literature than with the visual
arts.
Another modern master of the genre was Tristan Tzara. In his Dada
Manifesto of 1918 he said 'To launch a manifesto you have to want
A. B. & C., and fulminate against 1, 2, & 3,...' I think 'fulminate
against' is the operative phrase here. A manifesto that only states
what it is for is far too confining. A movement based on that will
suffocate. Better to concentrate on what you're against, that way
every enemy of your enemy is your friend. Tzara knew the importance
of a good rant. Breton took it to its extreme, however, and devoted
most of his Second Manifesto of Surrealism to excoriating former
friends and colleagues.
>
>i've gotten a lot out of reading papers or books written by artists
>about art, and the manifesto seems to be one example of this. I'll
>echo Mattison's sentiments, "anyone got any opinions on this issue?"
>If that's too general a question, then "Has anyone read any good ones?"
>"Have any artists manifesto's been historically significant?", "Have
>they added to the art or are they extraneous?", "Are there any recent
>schools of artistic thought out there summarized in such a writing?"
>..etc.
>
>James.
>
Dan
----
rm...@umich.edu "Living? The servants will do that for us."
Villiers de l'Isle-Adam
MAvenali
movements such as Futurism, Dada, and Surrealism, it is interesting to
consider Guy Debord's book _Society of the Spectacle_ (Black & Red, 1983)
as a kind of manifesto for the Situationist International. [For more on
the Situationists see _Situationist International Anthology_, ed. Ken
Knabb, 1981; and the sections in _Art in Theory, 1900-1990: An Anthology
of Changing Ideas_, ed. Charles Harrison & Paul Wood, 1992].
Debord ranted & raved against the power of the media (against the society
of the spectacle)--that is, the mediation & onslaught of images, words,
gestures, and perspectives which infiltrate our daily lives.
Consequently, our experience of "reality" is diminished, reduced,
depleted and "second-hand". The media's subliminal messages "work on us"
to consume. Everything, including art, is ripe for exploitation &
commodification.
Debord's own work was as a writer & film maker. The Situationists
(1957-72) were an avant-garde movement committed to art & revolutionary
cultural politics (--the revolutionary transformation of everyday life--)
and were most effective during the late 60s (i.e. student riots in Paris),
but disbanded a few years later. Ironically, in the early 1990s, Debord's
work was being acclaimed. He killed himself last November.
MAvenali
Phil Morse
>something that postmodernism seems to leave out to me is not
>the efforts at understanding various contexts, but rather
>important subtexts and pretexts for how we make things...
>biological limitations and aptitudes, for instance.
I'd like to hear more of your thoughts about this. I'm not sure I
understand you.
>here's the key point... what is seen as a "context" is in itself
>a construction, hopefully a valid construction,
Well, you know, everything's construction. Remember Kant? The World as
Will and Idea?
that may or may not
>relate to the artwork...ideally they relate very well, at which point
>criticism can be useful.
One good example of the issue here is Rosalind Krauss's essay on Sol
Lewit from The Originality of the Avant-Guard, etc. MIT, in which she
takes apart Donald Kuspit's constructions about Lewit's constructions.
Maybe a meta-criticism is in order, but then at some point you would need
a meta-meta-criticism, etc....Anyway, sometimes its useful, lots of times
just plain bad and misleading.
By the way, here's a book you might enjoy, if you haven't already. MIT
press recently published Cognition and the Visual Arts, by Robert Solso.
In it he uses concepts from cognitive psychology to understand the
process of aesthetic experience. The key word here is process. It could
just as well be construction.
Phil
Phil Morse
>[Like I was saying, there are people (like you perhaps) who just can't
>"get it" just by looking at a work of art. For this sort of verbally
>oriented person, the "context"- a verbal construct- must accompany a
>piece in order for it to gain entry to the brain.
>
> Andrew Werby - United Artworks
No doubt, and I shouldn't be one of them, because my own work is strongly
visual and I teach drawing -- but in some ways I am. I have no problem
"getting it" with old masters, expressionists, early modernists, ab ex,
and so on. These are the waters I've learned to swim in while developing
my own visual skills. But what to make of works where the whole
discourse is altered. Sculptures by Robert Morris, Richard Serra, or
Mary Miss, for example. They get into my brain all right and then
bug me because they don't fit What I know. Here's where I start reading
to find a new context to make sense of my experience. I mean, what good
is experience if it can't ultimately be understood? Furthermore, even
with the visual work I know and love, it never stops for me with a purely
visual or a purely emotional response. Pieces always seem to lead beyond
themselves into associations, metaphors, and conventions of facture and
style. How can they avoid it. If something exists as a cultural object,
isn't it by definition enmeshed in a web of shared meanings? I
realize this isn't where you started out and your original point was well
taken. I just happen to find the questions which develop around this
subject irresistable.
Phil
Mattison
Oh Forget Pearlman -
He is still q green wanna be -
He is lucky I got him into Artnews for his one art world experience in
life - while I was visiting NYC -
connections?
Not from Pearlman -
Thanks 4 the press anyway -
Mattison
James P. Rowell (jamesr) wrote:
: apea...@panix.com (Andy Pearlman) wrote:
: >In article <mattartD...@netcom.com> mat...@netcom.com (Mattison) writes:
: >>I can not fathom - not one person in here has an opinion on Manifestos?
: >
: >After you dragged a flame-fest into rec.arts.fine that involved you saying
: >you were posting someone else's phone number on alt.sex involving panties
: >multiple times, advertising continuously about your business, responding to
: >your own posts, and quoting articles in their entirety and tacking on some
: >one-liner on the end, and to use this self-thread as an example - asking
: >questions that you obviously have an opinion on rather than posting the
: >opinion.
: Maybe there's room for cutting Matti some slack around here. Her flame-fest
: was not terribly welcomed, I agree. However, all the negative points you
: mention above were directly involved with that one incident. So if we can
: forgive and forget then we can proceed on with more important matters.
: Let me just say that we all do stupid things, and there has never been
: correlations between anyone's behaviour and their abilities as an artist.
: Jackson Pollock was an alcoholic and often an ass**** for example.
: WRT her "advertising continuously", the claim is somewhat unfounded.
: This group is about fine-art issues. Notifying people about openings
: IMO is welcomed information. You (apearlma) include a www link in
: your mail, which is advertising, but again, a welcomed form. Enough said.
: ---
: The issue of the Manifesto I find interesting. From what I understand,
: I suppose in today's corporate world we could call it a mission statement
: put out by a group of artists with similar goals and ideas about art.
: Is this accurate? I haven't ever read any groups manifesto's, but I'm
: going to guess that I could find one in Breton's writings about surrealism.
: I've gotten a lot out of reading papers or books written by artists
Andy Pearlman
>Oh Forget Pearlman -
>He is still q green wanna be -
>He is lucky I got him into Artnews for his one art world experience in
>life - while I was visiting NYC -
You must be forgetting that faculty position at a major NYC art school
teaching computer art that starts in February. Try again.
Andy Pearlman
--
Andy Pearlman - artwork at http://tsb.weschke.com/iiw/gallery/pearlman_a.html
apea...@panix.com
"I amok cartoon!"
William DeRaymond
>
> : I've gotten a lot out of reading papers or books written by artists
> : about art, and the manifesto seems to be one example of this. I'll
> : echo Mattison's sentiments, "anyone got any opinions on this issue?"
> : If that's too general a question, then "Has anyone read any good ones?"
> : "Have any artists manifesto's been historically significant?", "Have
> : they added to the art or are they extraneous?", "Are there any recent
> : schools of artistic thought out there summarized in such a writing?"
> : ..etc.
>
> : James.
offered it up on my web page... I suppose people out there think it lousy or
something...(if anyone bothered to check it out) but I have to disagree. The
skeleton goes like this - 1.Color is God. 2.Brush is God 3.Motif is God 4.You
are God 5. Artist is God. 6.Art is God. Now I realize this isn't christian
thought, and you could substitute 'absolute principle of the artform'for God,
but I like the sound of the word., and I think I cover some basic and
important points with regards to the school of art I belong to - art as a
part of a spiritual path, or a path to 'self-realization'. Any way there
are concepts contained in there that are large enough to be worthy of your
consideration, and argument if neccessary. Also a beautiful statement on
'Style' by the master I was fortunate to have studied with, is on those
pages, and worthy of your perusal. Thanks for the attention, and any comments
you might have.
'Simplicity demands our deepest attention in order to be appreciated'-
William