Art Community L.A.+SF
verena
I will move to California this fall (now in Germany) and want to
connect to the "art scene". I am painting and drawing. Can anyone help
me with deciding between L.A. and San Francisco? I have lived in SF
before, so it I am not looking for a beautiful place to be, but an
interesting art scene. How are living expenses in those 2 cities? I
heard that SF got real expensive, how is it in L.A.?? I have studied
Fine Arts in Germany, and have applied at schools in both cities to
make contacts to the art world. I am not sure if it has to be an
expensive private school though, are there good state schools for the
MFA program? What are the ways to enter the art community - talk to
people at art shows and galleries? Go to school?
Happy about all kinds of suggestions, thank you!
Nerd Gerl
>heard that SF got real expensive, how is it in L.A.??
Look up the LA Times online for real estate. Then hit the San Francisco
newspapers.
Still want to make that move? Buy a lottery ticket and pray!
=====================
Naked Angel Art
http://www.rcip.com/nerdgerl
"Welcome To Heaven"
Gus Horne
>> heard that SF got real expensive, how is it in L.A.??
>
> Look up the LA Times online for real estate. Then hit the San Francisco
> newspapers.
>
> Still want to make that move? Buy a lottery ticket and pray!
It's true! The happy Horne family left Los Angeles due to impossible costs
and the shaking earth syndrome.
Check out California's cost of living, taxes and crime statistics (and lack
of good schools) with this nifty web resource:
http://www.bestplaces.net/html/citycompare.asp
It allows you to compare any two cities in the United States - offering 100
statistics. And it's free (unless you are a resident of California, in which
case a 175% tax on your yearly income will be automatically billed to your
credit card).
Gus Horne
Andrew Werby
"verena" <ma...@hilkedettmers.de> wrote in message
news:1a39baf9.02051...@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> I will move to California this fall (now in Germany) and want to
> connect to the "art scene". I am painting and drawing. Can anyone help
> me with deciding between L.A. and San Francisco? I have lived in SF
> before, so it I am not looking for a beautiful place to be, but an
> interesting art scene. How are living expenses in those 2 cities? I
> heard that SF got real expensive, how is it in L.A.??
[San Francisco itself is ridiculously expensive. Even the warehouses jacked
rents skyward during the late Dot-Com boom (for some reason, they preferred
lofts to class-A office space- probably to project an arty ambience), and
they haven't come down much yet. There are more affordable places to live in
the outlying areas, but some (Oakland, Richmond) are not places you'd want
to walk around at night. Other places around here have nice neighborhoods,
but are basically the 'burbs with no cultural focus outside of the nearest
mall. LA is expensive too, if you want to live in the nicer places where you
can breathe the air (Santa Monica, Venice, etc.). If you decide to live in
South-Central or Watts, which are much cheaper, you've got the same problem
as in Oakland or Richmond.
Neither SF nor LA has an "art scene" that's accessible to outsiders; it's
not like Paris in the 1890s where artists gathered in certain cafes spewing
theories and absinthe. Instead, artists cluster around the art schools, and
various galleries have loyal cliques, but the schools are expensive, while
providing dubious value for the money, and the galleries have all the
artists they'll need for the forseeable future. If you want to buy art,
there are plenty of places to do that, from annual "Open Studios" events to
numerous street fairs and galleries, but don't look to be welcomed with open
arms by an "art community". While there certainly are some artists and
craftspeople doing good work here, they tend to stick to their studios and
do it, rather than hang out and party with other artists.]
I have studied
> Fine Arts in Germany, and have applied at schools in both cities to
> make contacts to the art world. I am not sure if it has to be an
> expensive private school though, are there good state schools for the
> MFA program? What are the ways to enter the art community - talk to
> people at art shows and galleries? Go to school?
> Happy about all kinds of suggestions, thank you!
[If you've been in Europe for a while, you'll be unprepared for the pariah
status that artists have here. While it's a more or less respectable
profession there, with lots of state and even private support that is
reflected in ones general social standing, here it gets one the fish-eye,
and the inevitable question "but what do you REALLY do for a living?" Sure,
you can go to gallery openings (many galleries try to open shows on the
first Thursday of the month, to encourage traffic) and even sign up for art
schools (mostly, you'll learn to wear black, pierce and tattoo yourself, and
project an ineffable attitude while doing your day-job), but the "community"
will continue to elude you. Identifying oneself as an artist tends to be
something people here do in their twenties- by the time one is 30 or so (and
has paid off ones student loans), it's generally been written off as an
impossible dream. For a while, artists were getting jobs in the dot-com
industry, but that's dried up now, and graphic designers are commonly found
flipping burgers with the rest of the art-school graduates. I'm sorry to
paint such a gloomy picture, but neither SF or LA is any kind of art Mecca-
have you considered Santa Fe or Hoboken ? ]
Andrew Werby
http://unitedartworks.com
Noumenon
rent cost sky-rocketed in early 90-ties the most of artists moved out of SF
and settled in various suburbs.
I talked to some artists who used to live in SF. They can not survive in
there.
Too tough.
However from standpoint of culture crazy S.F. is a way ahead of drowsy L.A.
LA is awful place as "art scene"!
Unfortunately I am still in LA.
I have been living here for more than a year and now I am moving to the East
coast - closer to New York.
There is no art scene as it is neither any distinguishable art community.
There are a lot of people living in art lofts and pretending to be artists,
but they don't do anything.
Not really.
Most of them just like the atmoshere and hanging out in art circles.
They have other source of income and don't produce any art that can be sold.
I know few serious (and good) artists in LA, though for the most part, they
just llive and work in LA, but don't use local art market because it's more
rotten than anywhere else.
For example I know two artists they have huge houses with studios and they
work hard and serious, but none of them exhibit or sell any painting in
California for last 10-15 years.
They just avoid doing it because LA art market is completely dead, and
trying to make your way through it is nothing but a waste of time.
So many artists live in LA (for different reasons), but they market their
art some places else...
Naturally L.A. is cheaper that S.F.
Apartment rent varies, depending on area, of course.
Art lofts are from 1000$ to 1800$ per month.
Make your own conclusions.
Among these two, LA and SF, I would choose S.F., but I don't choose any,
because it just makes no sense.
For an artist there are just fewer advantages, but disadvantages are
innumerable.
And generally California (especially South - L.A. area) is neither
interesting or suitable place
for a European person to be.
On second thought, hmmm...it depends on person.
Weaving the Conundrum
-=| NOUMENON |=-
Nerd Gerl
>interesting or suitable place
>for a European person to be.
Would you be so kind as to define the race/ethnicity California IS suitable
for?
Or is it a given?
Mayo Florece
says...
>have you considered Santa Fe or Hoboken ? ]
Santa Fe????? You gotta be kidding!!!
It's right up there with San Fran now as
far as cost of living goes. Artists who
WERE long-time residents there have begun
an exodus in recent years. Now HERE is a
New Mexico community where some of those
fleeing Santa Fe's high costs have found
a haven:
http://www.zianet.com/jaxart/temporary/b&w.html
Noumenon
> >interesting or suitable place
> >for a European person to be.
>
> Would you be so kind as to define the race/ethnicity California IS suitable
> for?
What race or ethnicity has to do with it?
We were talking about art and art communities.
CULTURAL ENVIRONMENT.
That's what counts.
If some people find South California a remarkably great in that respect -
let them have it and bathe in their errancy.
I will not even try to shake someone's most sincerest but silliest
delusions.
Nerd Gerl
>> >interesting or suitable place
>> >for a European person to be.
>>
>> Would you be so kind as to define the race/ethnicity California IS suitable
>> for?
>
>What race or ethnicity has to do with it?
>
The quote from the original post stated
"And generally California (especially South - L.A. area) is neither interesting
or suitable place for a European person to be."
What do the last four (4) words mean to you?
>We were talking about art and art communities.
Is a European person "art and an art community"? Or, is a European person a
European person?
>CULTURAL ENVIRONMENT.
>That's what counts.
>
>If some people find South California a remarkably great in that respect -
>let them have it and bathe in their errancy.
>I will not even try to shake someone's most sincerest but silliest
>delusions.
It sounds as if you detest South California and that is fine. (I have a few
problems with it myself). However, I still want an answer to my question based
on the original quote.
In other words, what is it about South California that especially makes it
inappropriate for a EUROPEAN PERSON?
Noumenon
> inappropriate for a EUROPEAN PERSON?
ABSENSE of CULTURE.
SHOCKING SNOBBERY.
BACKWARD MENTALITY.
HORRID IGNORANCE.
Leigh
"Noumenon" <ArtE...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3CE5E9D8...@concentric.net...
This would be the insider's guide to Southern California? Thanks so much for
your input.
L.
Mayo Florece
>ABSENSE of CULTURE.
>SHOCKING SNOBBERY.
>BACKWARD MENTALITY.
>HORRID IGNORANCE.
I'd add:
EGOISM EXTREMIS
NOW NOW NOWISM
FOOLISH FOULISTS
MONEY MOONY WORSHIPPING
HASTE WASTE & UNCHASTE
Nerd Gerl
Aha! Then I would be CORRECT in reasoning that because these qualities are
negative in a generic application, they are non-desireable to ANY person - NOT
just a European person.
Believe it or not, Europeans are NOT the elite to culture, humility, futuristic
visions, and intelligence. To assume that they are this elite, and *especially*
not appropriate for this environment (while others *are* appropriate by not
naming them) is simply discriminatory.
.......................................................................
. Naked Angel Art: http://www.rcip.com/nerdgerl .
...... See In Person @ The MatrixArts Center .....
.................... Sacramento, CA .........................
Emmett
Except I would say that Marianne Costantinou of the
San Francisco writes very informative articles.
Marianne would be a definitive "art scene" reference.
For example, she wrote the following story :
http://www.catherinesart.com/portraits/street-gallery.shtml
I see her articles about one every two months.
...
I'm especially familiar with the artist featured in
this story, Catherine Zhang. Her customers come from all walks
of life, starting with mostly blacks and Latinos having very
low incomes (who are pleased to get a color $25 sketch),
to locals (who opt for either high detail charcoal portraits
at around $150-$400 or color pastels for $200-$400). Once or
twice a year she will have an oil portrait $1000 to
$3000. She has customers of all races - Mexicans, US Latinos,
African Americans, young people, old people.
Many many people come to visit Catherine. Many people sort of
looking for an art scene like to chat, which is sort of bad
because she usually has a lot of art to work on.
She is local celebrity. It's accurate to say that she is
loved by many many people in both San Francisco and Oakland.
European (including American born ones) are friendly, but there
was an isolated incident once where a couple stepped in front of
her at the Burger King on Powell and offended her. I won't go
into details. She doesn't think about it often now. She describes
some "Middle East" people as being sometimes mean spirited, but
no particular nationality.
One of her works sets in Tad's Steaks on Powell. Colored pencil.
Check it out next time your there. Right by the cash register.
Feel free to peruse her site, http://www.catherinesart.com or to visit
her art gallery at 687 Geary Street.
BTW, the key to living in the City is to get an apartment with someone
whose lived there for a while. That way you can take advantage of
the City's rent control and get a break on the rent.
SF has lots of universities, starting with affordable City College,
and SFSU, to the Academy of Art, to other very expensive private
schools in North Beach.
verena
these costs of living in California are pretty ridiculous, and it
won't do cities good to scare away middle class people, artists,
liberals...
I guess you know that Germanys` university education is almost free of
charge? There are people from all over the world at the art school I
am going to, but just a handful Americans.
Does anybody know which school might be more interesting to attend in
the graduate program: San Francisco Art Institute or Art Center
Pasadena? Are students organizing art shows in those cities? How are
contacts made to the art scene? And what kind of reputation does CSULB
have?? Is San Diego interesting for artists (is there a "serious"
scene?)? What cheap art school (graduate) can you suggest?? (in
L.A./SD)
I found SF too artsy in their galleries. Is it more about "deco",
especially in paintings? Or is that just a travellers` first
impression?
Verena
Mayo Florece
ma...@hilkedettmers.de says...
>I found SF too artsy in their galleries. Is it more about "deco",
>especially in paintings? Or is that just a travellers` first
>impression?
If you're referring to only those in the Fisherman's
Wharf area, that's probably a good description. They
cater to the tourist trade there. But if you're
talking about the Bay Area generally, then it's a
much more vibrant art scene than the L.A. area, IMHO!
Don't overlook the very excellent state-supported
schools in the Bay Area - in particular UC Berkley's
very cutting-edge art program. Living costs are
somewhat cheaper on the east side of the bay too.
Especially if you're not too picky and can live in
Oakland etc.
Noumenon
> very cutting-edge art program.
Combination of these words make me shudder.
(Some other people as well, I believe)
No such thing exists.
"Cutting-edge Art" is a freaky catachresis.
Besides "Cutting-edge" is an adjective that's already defiled beyond
imaginable.
Better not use it, because it can besmear "art" as well.
Weaving the Conundrum
-=| NOUMENON |=-
Contrary to popular belief an artist is never ahead of his time,
but most people are far behind theirs...
-< Edward Varese >-
Mayo Florece
>Better not use it, because it can besmear "art" as well.
I'll continue to use it until someone comes
up with a more appropriate descriptor. What
you think of the term is irrelevant to me.
If you're a Mani Deli advocate, then any term
that smacks of cutting-edge is anathema to you.
"Cutting-edge art schools" is how I hear those
schools described where emphasis is on
"innovative" and "new" and "exploratory."
Noumenon
> I'll continue to use it until someone comes
> up with a more appropriate descriptor.
Going with waves and fashion?
What about using own judgement and brains, for a chnage?
Or there is a problem with that?
Perhaps no knowledge to power it.
> What you think of the term is irrelevant to me.
Sure, just as irrelevant all posts in any newsgroup. Everybody pours own
nonsense,
nobody reads anything without thinking what it says.
> If you're a Mani Deli advocate, then any term
> that smacks of cutting-edge is anathema to you.
I am not Mani or his advocate, and it's not anathema at all.
It just makes no sense. You failed to grasp what I meant.
> "Cutting-edge art schools" is how I hear those
> schools described where emphasis is on
> "innovative" and "new" and "exploratory."
Exactly.
Those schools describe that way only for silly teens and simpletons
- showy words attract attention of gawks.
They need more students, more stream, more activity and more funds,
they work like commercial enterprises. Naturally they tell anything what
crowd, with their mouths opened, can buy.
...even things describing something that does not exist.
Don't be blinded by sparkling husk - it is pathetic.
You ought to be ashamed!
Mayo Florece
>Don't be blinded by sparkling husk - it is pathetic.
>You ought to be ashamed!
You need to go soak your head - in
hydroflouric acid! Maybe it'll clear
your nasal congestion and help reduce
the sinus headaches you seem to be
suffering from...
verena
down there. I ment regular galeries when I said that I have the
impression that SF seems a bit "artsy". I ment "artsy" in a "deco"
way, which I find rather difficult... But I liked Sam
Tchakalians`paintings`alot, he was a teacher at SFAI.
Noumenon
> hydroflouric acid! Maybe it'll clear
> your nasal congestion and help reduce
> the sinus headaches you seem to be
> suffering from...
I find it rather tiresome: when teens and softbrain dolts
have no argument or knowledge
(not to say about any reason which simply does not dwell in empty heads) -
all they can squeeze is something like "go f..k yourself", "soak your head",
"find a schrink to consult"... and other drab hackneyed phrases.
Boneheads live by cheap mass standards, think by cliches and speak cliches.
Pathetic.
Shockingly deplorable picture...