How to paint transmission lines, ropes, etc.
Herbert Ward
In paint, they would appear as long thin curved lines of dark paint.
Such lines would be difficult to draw with a paintbrush, because they would
need to be of very uniform and narrow width.
Do good painters have this steadiness of hand, or is there some way to cheat?
DNALJM
>need to be of very uniform and narrow width.
You can go back in with the sky pigment and get a very fine line by slimming
it down that way. It will be thin enough but never as perfect as if you made
it with a compass. That's why it's a painting and not a CAD diagram. ; )
Jane
Paul Mesken
wrote:
It's always a good thing to cheat (after all : painting is not a
performance art). You could use a thin marker and a ruler for example.
I also heard one about using a fishing line covered with paint, a
pizza slicer, etc. I you insist on using a brush then you can use a
stick or something along which you slide the handle of the brush (kind
of like an "elevated" ruler).
Andrew Werby
stick of the appropriate diameter. Then when the background is dry, fill the
depression and wipe off the excess. If it's watercolor, use a pencil.]
Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com
"Herbert Ward" <wa...@physics.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:16ce5857.04030...@posting.google.com...
arachedeux
news:j5r940546ee9bm0tl...@4ax.com...
> On 2 Mar 2004 11:43:24 -0800, wa...@physics.utexas.edu (Herbert Ward)
> wrote:
>
> >Suppose you wanted to paint electrical transmission lines against a
bright sky.
> >
> >In paint, they would appear as long thin curved lines of dark paint.
> >
> >Such lines would be difficult to draw with a paintbrush, because they
would
> >need to be of very uniform and narrow width.
> >
> >Do good painters have this steadiness of hand, or is there some way to
cheat?
>
> It's always a good thing to cheat (after all : painting is not a
> performance art). You could use a thin marker and a ruler for example.
I'd respectfully warn away from markers, they have a shine to them that
seldom matches that of the paint. I saw a really impressive big painting in
a show last year that suffered from this. If you were in front of it the
lines worked, if you moved either side the shine ruined it. Pencil does the
same, unless you overpaint it.
> I also heard one about using a fishing line covered with paint, a
> pizza slicer, etc. I you insist on using a brush then you can use a
> stick or something along which you slide the handle of the brush (kind
> of like an "elevated" ruler).
I'd also recommend turning the canvas to fit with the good curve side of
your hand.
cheers,
Dr. Slick
> That's why it's a painting and not a CAD diagram. ; )
>
Unless you are Photoshop Mani Deli.
Slick
Tran Chewla
wa...@physics.utexas.edu says...
>Do good painters have this steadiness of hand, or is there some way to cheat?
If cheating is using the straight edge of a
painting knife, then that's the way I cheat
when drawing very thin straight lines.
Look at the type of knife popular with the
TV painter Bob Ross or William Alexander
if you want the configuration that I favor.
Here is the one I buy from UTRECHT:
http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_product.cfm?classID=1212&subclassID=121210&b
randname=Utrecht&Item=33188
Marc Sabatella
> You can go back in with the sky pigment and get a very fine line by
slimming
> it down that way. It will be thin enough but never as perfect as if
you made
> it with a compass. That's why it's a painting and not a CAD diagram.
; )
And unless the rest of your painting is absolutely that precisely
rendered, a perfectly uniformly thick line might look out of place. In
fact, even if your painting *is* that precisely rendered, the textural
appearance of a long, thin brushtroke would likely seem out of place -
like a drawn-on afterthought. You're almost always better off
approaching thin shapes by cutting into them with the negative shapes
around them. Also lettering on signs, etc.
Another thing to consider on power lines, ropes, and other really long
shapes is that visually, they often appear to meld into the background,
especially when backlit as when seen against the sky - light can
actually refract around the object making it appear thinner and/or
lighter than it actually is. Thus, it is often better to not paint the
thing as uniformly as you might believe it actually is. Unless you're
the type to paint every leave on every tree, you're often better off
letting the wire disappear in places. And watch for reflections - in
some places, the wire might be *lighter* than the background.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Erik A. Mattila
Just a suggestion, Herbert: go out and look at them hard and long
(sometimes it's difficult to get past all your "programming" in seeing
to determine exactly what you really see.) My guess is that in most
instances you won't see continuous long lines, but rather segments of
long lines that your mind organizes into the idea of long, continuous
lines. So maybe you don't have to learn how to paint them from tower to
tower in order to achieve the "believability" you desire. Just bits and
pieces - but each segment would have to allign with the expected path of
the total line (arcs). That way the viewer could put it together into
an idea of continuous lines, just like a viewer does in nature.
And try a liner brush - like they use for pin striping automobiles. You
might have to go to an auto paint store to find a good one.
Erik
Andrew D
wa...@physics.utexas.edu (Herbert Ward) wrote:
Some painters cut a curved piece of card using a sharp knife and a long,
freehand sweep. This gives a "natural curve" against which a loaded brush
can be rested.
Andy D
Dilettante
The way to cheat if you are doing realism is to suggest start the
lines at one end and finish them at the other.
But I would follow the practice of the expressionist and go large.
Make them as big as everything else, a major compositional element,
huge black monstrous spider legs, webs, lattice-works, grids, prison
bars, radiating explosions. You could check out Feininger's treatment
of space for an idea.
This is the big problem with street scenes, especially for
photographers--how to get the idealised scene we want and cut out the
ugly reality.
Dilettante
Argon3
The flat tip of a bright natural hair brush like a sable drawn sideways gently.
Toothpicks dipped in dilute paint.
As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, pinstriping brushes also called
dagger stripers. I used to work in an art supply store and we NEVER sold any
dagger stripers...nobody knew what they were for. I had a grandfather who
lettered trucks, so I did know.
argon
Tran Chewla
says...
Stay tuned - I have to take some photos
and post them and since today is a good
one for staying out of the weather I'll
use this as my rainy day project.
In the meantime, go buy a flat-tipped
painting knife if you don't already
own one.
Mani Deli
>
>>Suppose you wanted to paint electrical transmission lines against a bright sky.
>>
>>In paint, they would appear as long thin curved lines of dark paint.
>>
>>Such lines would be difficult to draw with a paintbrush, because they would
>>need to be of very uniform and narrow width.
>>
>>Do good painters have this steadiness of hand, or is there some way to cheat?
>
Its technique which should be taught in art school. Since technique
isn't taught anymore you can see the results in the compromise of
scratchy lines and the usual schmier by those who are against any sort
of rote knowledge.
Using techniques learned over centuries is cheating in the eyes of
idiot teachers who know almost nothing and will substitute a pep talk
for the knowledge they lack.
No skill no art!
Tired of Modern Art? check http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
Mani Deli
>The way to cheat if you are doing realism is to suggest start the
>lines at one end and finish them at the other.
>
Using techniques learned over centuries is cheating in the eyes of
idiot teachers who know almost nothing and will substitute a pep talk
for the knowledge they lack.
>But I would follow the practice of the expressionist and go large.
>Make them as big as everything else, a major compositional element,
>huge black monstrous spider legs, webs, lattice-works, grids, prison
>bars, radiating explosions. You could check out Feininger's treatment
>of space for an idea.
>
>This is the big problem with street scenes, especially for
>photographers--how to get the idealised scene we want and cut out the
>ugly reality.
>
Try doing some thing with this useless babble.
PS let's see your famous elephant.
Theri
#2 is what I use for thin branches. Even thinner lines, thread-thin,
would requite a #0.
The trick is to make one long stroke from the shoulder, not short
niggling little strokes. Sable holds the most paint, btw.
wa...@physics.utexas.edu (Herbert Ward) wrote in message news:<16ce5857.04030...@posting.google.com>...
Theri
lnes for ships in paintings). This is the best one . It is listed
here under watercolor brushes but it serves equally well for oils or
acrylics--having a long handle. One stroke with total confidence from
the shoulder, a big swinging arc is how it's done. Practice it first.
http://www.cheapjoescatalog.com/catalog/products.asp?id=112&pid=17&ppid=2
walnut earl
<ma...@outsideshore.com> wrote:
>
>And unless the rest of your painting is absolutely that precisely
Excellent point.
Painting can be thought of as a visual fabric. One would assume that
the goal is to communicate through a consistent use of language. To
create special rules for handling small linear features violates the
consistency we find in the info that our eyes harvest. The priority
placed on "power lines" or other named features is, I think not well
rooted in how we see. your milege may vary...
DNALJM
>approaching thin shapes by cutting into them with the negative shapes
>around them. Also lettering on signs, etc.
>
I thought that's what I said.
/confused : \
Jane
Mani Deli
>Painting can be thought of as a visual fabric. One would assume that
>the goal is to communicate through a consistent use of language. To
>create special rules for handling small linear features violates the
>consistency we find in the info that our eyes harvest. The priority
>placed on "power lines" or other named features is, I think not well
>rooted in how we see. your milege may vary...
Nice utterly useless art school babble.
Mani Deli
>
>> In paint, they would appear as long thin curved lines of dark paint.
>>
>> Such lines would be difficult to draw with a paintbrush, because they would
>> need to be of very uniform and narrow width.
>>
>> Do good painters have this steadiness of hand, or is there some way to cheat?
Good painters cheat. That's what you learn in art school. Cheating is
getting a result that an average failure can't achieve.
Painting fine lines requires a technique which can be learned. Its
obvious from most of what's said here that most have no idea how to do
it.
The more artists who don't know their craft, the more work for those
who do.
Flying Naked People
Mani Deli wrote in message ...
>Painting fine lines requires a technique which can be learned. Its
>obvious from most of what's said here that most have no idea how to do it.
That's why Mani offered no solution.
--
"Behind every great man, is a woman telling him what to think."
keith o'connor
learn to read between the lines to dig out the implied meaning.
Unfortunately you have never understood that it is not what people say but
what they are trying to say. You are very literal - like a machine. You're
not alone - all the religious types are literalists.
take care: Keith
The language of art is not a scientifically accurate language. The language
of art is based upon the application of tendencies and as such creates more
variety of interpretation between people than absolute agreement between
people.
Keith O'Connor
"Mani Deli" <ma...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1v0d40dpa7slfiar2...@4ax.com...
G*rd*n
I've not been above using a pen or other firm object to draw
a line in a painting. Of course I usually paint in plastic
(acrylics) so I'll do almost anything.
One of my acquaintances who works in oils would probably paint
the sky over a flat dark layer of paint, then scratch in
(out?) the lines before the sky paint dried. He might also
achieve other effects using the underlying dark color. But
this may be tricky -- I haven't used the technique myself.
--
(<><>) /*/
}"{ G*rd*n }"{ g...@panix.com }"{
{ http://www.etaoin.com | latest new material 1/19/03 <-adv't
Mike Thompson
paint the line 'freely' and if not right erase with a rag.
The technique I use for ship's riggin is to put paint on a palette
knife and run the edge of the knife along the line. I try to avoid
a too perfect continuous line (as that would be out-of-place in my
expressionist style). Using a rather liquid paint is helpful.
Also if the line is too strong you can paint sky thinly over it.
Erik A. Mattila
They're really nifty brushes, IMO. Fun, too. They'll load enough paint
for a 5 minute intense abstract calligraphy ralley. Here's a pix for
those among us who are interested in this sort of thing:
http://www.currys.com/brush/prodinfo2.asp?SubAcccatID=198
Erik
Thur
"walnut earl" <walnut@oil> wrote in message
news:p3sc40hp2ttcl106i...@4ax.com...
for exactly those reasons.
The brush I was guided to for those straight lines, after complaining about
riggers was a flattened chisel-edged brush, which comes in several sizes.
This may only be useful for watercolour, though.
Thur
Tran Chewla
>> As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, pinstriping brushes also called
>> dagger stripers. I used to work in an art supply store and we NEVER sold
any
>> dagger stripers...nobody knew what they were for. I had a grandfather who
>> lettered trucks, so I did know.
We have an annual "car show" where I live that
attracts several hundred entrants - some really
nice restored antiques and others that are
"funny cars" or whatever fanciful hot-rods are
called today. And there is always a booth that
does "pinstriping" for those who pay for it.
It's absolutely fascinating to watch a pinstripe
artist at work. Talk about steadiness! These guys
do it TOTALLY freehand. I can only guess that
none of them do any kind of drugs, including
drinking caffeine containing drinks!
The brushes they use are designed specifially for
the pinstriping business which is common to
both sign painting and fancy automotive finishing,
as well as decorating bicycles, etc.
By googling on "pinstriping brush" you can
find numerous sites and here's but one
that deals in such supplies:
http://xcaliberart.com/testimonials.html
TioWhite
>
> In paint, they would appear as long thin curved lines of dark paint.
>
> Such lines would be difficult to draw with a paintbrush, because they would
> need to be of very uniform and narrow width.
>
> Do good painters have this steadiness of hand, or is there some way to cheat?
You could use something other than a brush to apply the paint- for
example you could use piece of a plastic comb or cut notches in a
peice of mounting card
and then apply paint to your implement with a brush - and finally
drag over the surface of your painting. repeat the process as often as
it takes.
Cheers T
Nikolaus Maack
(in message <26ece786.04030...@posting.google.com>):
> You could use something other than a brush to apply the paint- for
> example you could use piece of a plastic comb or cut notches in a
> peice of mounting card
Alternatively, you could put the paint in your ass and squirt it out. I saw
that somewhere, but now I can't exactly remember where.
Mani Deli
<nikm...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Alternatively, you could put the paint in your ass and squirt it out. I saw
>that somewhere, but now I can't exactly remember where.
>
In your mirror.
Marc Sabatella
> >the goal is to communicate through a consistent use of language. To
> >create special rules for handling small linear features violates the
> >consistency we find in the info that our eyes harvest. The priority
> >placed on "power lines" or other named features is, I think not well
> >rooted in how we see. your milege may vary...
>
> Nice utterly useless art school babble.
Actually, it's quite useful, and in fact, commonly accewpted wisdom by
many professional artists. I can understand how a rank amateur might
not understand it, though.
Marc Sabatella
> >approaching thin shapes by cutting into them with the negative shapes
> >around them. Also lettering on signs, etc.
>
> I thought that's what I said.
> /confused : \
Might well be. I didn't mean to imply that everyone but me had it
wrong.
Mani Deli
<ma...@outsideshore.com> wrote:
>> >Painting can be thought of as a visual fabric. One would assume that
>> >the goal is to communicate through a consistent use of language. To
>> >create special rules for handling small linear features violates the
>> >consistency we find in the info that our eyes harvest. The priority
>> >placed on "power lines" or other named features is, I think not well
>> >rooted in how we see. your milege may vary...
>>
>> Nice utterly useless art school babble.
>
>Actually, it's quite useful, and in fact, commonly accewpted wisdom by
>many professional artists.
Who paint no skill realism like your's.
> I can understand how a rank amateur might
>not understand it, though.