Buying original artwork (advice)
Ralph Whaley
I am soliciting advice as to what to look for in procuring original
artwork. In particular, I wanted to know how one goes about determining
the potential future worth of a contemporary artists' work. I know what
I like, but how can I be sure that my $5k - $10k for an original would
be a good, long-term investment?
In particular, I am looking at several original pieces by the artist
David Schluss. His work strikes a chord with me, but before I buy I
wanted some indication as to the investment value of such a purchase.
Any advice would be a help.
Thanks in advance,
Ralph Whaley
wha...@lps.umd.edu
Chris
Art is no better (or worse) investment than any risky stock - it's like
investing in penny stocks. It's a huge risk, but if you think of it as a
gamble rather than an investment, it's fun.
Looking at David Schluss's work, I'd have to ask whether it has 'staying
power'; personally I think not - to say nothing of the fact that he
seems to be cranking out lots of very similar commercial works. It would
rather be like investing in an internet stock.
I guess what I'd ask myself is would I get 5 or 10k worth of enjoyment
from the work - that's a question only you can answer for yourself.
Suppose it totally crashed in value, and people thought you were an
absolute idiot for buying it - would you still enjoy having it on your
wall? If you would, then buy it & hope for the best.
OTOH, I'd suggest you start small - in the under 1000$ range, and pick
works that _really_ resonate with you.
BTW, If it's any help, artist's work apparently peaks in value 30-40
years after their demise. So if the value of the work starts to decline,
& the artist is still alive, hmmm, better not follow that one up :)
Good luck;
Chris
~Artist~
as a very limited knowledge of the entire art market. They seem to
know the business of posters or lithos.
I would enlist a good curator to help build a collection wether you
are interested in emerging works or more established.
Some artists will blow the doors off the overvalued internet stocks.
What stock has been around since the 15th century?
Mattison Fitzgerald
Artist
http://www.rhinodev.com/M
~Artist~
Andrew Werby
> Hello all,
> I am soliciting advice as to what to look for in procuring original
> artwork. In particular, I wanted to know how one goes about determining
> the potential future worth of a contemporary artists' work. I know what
> I like, but how can I be sure that my $5k - $10k for an original would
> be a good, long-term investment?
[You can't. If you want a long-term investment that's sure to increase in
value, buy a Treasury bond. You can even frame it and hang it on your wall.]
> In particular, I am looking at several original pieces by the artist
> David Schluss. His work strikes a chord with me, but before I buy I
> wanted some indication as to the investment value of such a purchase.
> Any advice would be a help.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ralph Whaley
> wha...@lps.umd.edu
[I'm not familiar with this artist's work, but if you're primarily interested
in making money, then art in general is a bad investment. A Treasury bond is
easily sold for its face value- it's a "fungible" commodity. A work of art is
much more difficult to sell. If you bought it in a gallery, you should realize
that half the price you paid was the gallery's cut. It's not like they're going
to buy it back for what you paid- at most, they would pay half that, and since
they're probably getting the work on consignment from the artist they are
unlikely to offer anywhere near that much. If you found a gallery willing to
take it on consignment from you (also an iffy proposition), you would get half
the selling price at most- if it sold. So the piece would have to double in
value for you to recoup your original investment. Sure, if the artist should
suddenly become a major public figure (by marrying a movie star, for instance)
then the value of his work would increase sufficiently for you to potentially
make some money by selling your painting- but this is rather a long shot.
If you are buying for appreciation potential, you should realize that your
personal taste is more of a liability than an asset. Unless you are an
experienced trend-spotter with your finger on the pulse of the art market,
you are unlikely to pick the artist whose work is about to skyrocket in value
because of its appeal to the cognoscenti. If you did buy art on this principle,
you might not want to hang it on your wall anyway- it probably wouldn't strike
that chord- in fact you'd most likely hate it. Artists whose work appeals
to the majority of the public hardly ever become darlings of the critics and
curators. So if you like a piece of art, go ahead and buy it for the pleasure
you'll get out of looking at it- but don't think of it as an "investment"- it's
money you've spent for your personal enjoyment.]
Andrew Werby
UNITED ARTWORKS- Sculpture, Jewelry, and other art stuff
http://unitedartworks.com
http://www.computersculpture.com for 3d design tools
Erik A. Mattila
~Artist~
need to be marked for their societies creation of cultural and
sp8iritual poverty.
Sad crime as it is.
Don't move to Silly Icon Valley trust me they have destroyed the
quality of lilfe here there is no-babylon.
And the Cafe BAbylon the supposed hippest trip here....washed up in
the shadow of arrogance and greed of the valley babes and stock
monsters.
Mattison
Marge Inal
> In particular, I am looking at several original pieces by the artist
>David Schluss. His work strikes a chord with me, but before I buy I
>wanted some indication as to the investment value of such a purchase.
>Any advice would be a help.
It's incredible to think that someone would trust the
opinion(s) of anyone in this or any other newsgroup;
opinions from people who are totally unknown to the
questioner; on matters of investing large sums of
money. Geez, I sure hope you don't ever get on anyone's
scam list. You're just ripe for ripping off.
If you want investment advice, my advice to you is to
seek out a reputable professional investment broker in whatever
it is you are planning to invest in -- art, securities,
real estate, antiques, or whatever.
On the other hand, I have a few choice works left in
my inventory that are guaranteed to appreciate at an
annual rate of 700 percent. I'll sell any of my works
to you at my 'special price' reserved for participants in R.A.F.
burnin...@my-deja.com
wha...@lps.umd.edu wrote:
> Hello all,
> I am soliciting advice as to what to look for in procuring original
> artwork. In particular, I wanted to know how one goes about
determining
> the potential future worth of a contemporary artists' work.
One doesn't.
> I know what I like,
Always a good starting point.
> but how can I be sure that my $5k - $10k for an original would
> be a good, long-term investment?
If you want a sure thing, put it in CDs.
> In particular, I am looking at several original pieces by the artist
> David Schluss. His work strikes a chord with me, but before I buy I
> wanted some indication as to the investment value of such a purchase.
> Any advice would be a help.
If you like it and you think it's worth the price tag, buy it.
Otherwise, speak to your local bank.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ralph Whaley
> wha...@lps.umd.edu
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
burnin...@my-deja.com
~Artist~ <matt...@att.net> wrote:
> This is mostly true for posters. Whoever posted this follow up really
> as a very limited knowledge of the entire art market.
Um, *you* did. However, I would agree with your comment:>P
> They seem to
> know the business of posters or lithos.
>
> I would enlist a good curator to help build a collection wether you
> are interested in emerging works or more established.
LOL :P
Most curators couldn't recognize art if it bit them on the ass.
They are primarly brainless political hacks trained in artspeak.
Anything they recommend will be a reflection of whom/what they
are schtuping at the moment. If they have some crap that has been
gathering dust, it will also be recommended.
Not to even mention the fact that few would even be willing to
discuss something so crass :>P
> Some artists will blow the doors off the overvalued internet stocks.
> What stock has been around since the 15th century?
Why should the person to whom you direct your comments give a shit
about what happens 500 years from now, mattie-dear?
>
> Mattison Fitzgerald
> Artist
> http://www.rhinodev.com/M
>
Marge Inal
>Don't move to Silly Icon Valley trust me they have destroyed the
>quality of lilfe here there is no-babylon.
Matty dear,
Go to the web site of today's (Fri) Austin American
Statesman to find out how the 'Silly-con' people
of the "Silly-con Valley of the South" support the
arts. Perhaps those in Silly Icon Valley could learn
a lesson from them...
Here's an excerpt to pique your interest:
"$3 million given for art fund
By Michael Barnes
American-Statesman Arts Writer
Friday, September 24, 1999
"To jump-start the Austin Museum of Art's
collection, Dell Computer Corp. executive Mort
Topfer is giving $3 million to create an acquisition
endowment in the name of his wife, Angela.
"This is the Topfers' second $3 million gift to the museum.
In 1998, they gave that same amount as part of a $13
million group pledge from Dell executives
and their wives to help build a new museum. "
The full article is at:
http://www.austin360.com/statesman/editions/friday/metro_state_1.html
Ralph Whaley
>
> It's incredible to think that someone would trust the
> opinion(s) of anyone in this or any other newsgroup;
> opinions from people who are totally unknown to the
> questioner; on matters of investing large sums of
> money. Geez, I sure hope you don't ever get on anyone's
> scam list. You're just ripe for ripping off.
I was only soliciting advice! I thought that maybe people in this
newsgroup would have some ideas that could help. In many newsgroups I
have received excellent advice on matters ranging from car repair to
restaurants. Usually there is someone around with a similar experience
or who genuinely wants to help (Mattison was very helpful and kind!)
Saying that I am "ripe for ripping off" is way out of line and
insulting. Keep in mind that I am fully aware of the fact that I don't
have to take the advice I am given.
> If you want investment advice, my advice to you is to
> seek out a reputable professional investment broker in whatever
> it is you are planning to invest in -- art, securities,
> real estate, antiques, or whatever.
I solicited art advice - an art broker is a good idea. I would not go
to an art newsgroup and ask about securities!
>
> On the other hand, I have a few choice works left in
> my inventory that are guaranteed to appreciate at an
> annual rate of 700 percent. I'll sell any of my works
> to you at my 'special price' reserved for participants in R.A.F.
Thank you for your helpful comments - now, get off this thread!
- rw
Charles Eicher
>
>I solicited art advice - an art broker is a good idea. I would not go
>to an art newsgroup and ask about securities!
Just realize that art brokers have their disadvantages too. They can sometimes
buy works for less, and pass on savings. But they make their money selling art,
just like securities brokers make commissions on their sales.
~Artist~
Who is Matty?
I already know aht the stats are in the arts.
Better that the posers in this group and those inflicted with cultural
poverty see it.
M
~Artist~
>
> Marge Inal wrote:
>
> >
> > It's incredible to think that someone would trust the
> > opinion(s) of anyone in this or any other newsgroup;
> > opinions from people who are totally unknown to the
> > questioner; on matters of investing large sums of
> > money. Geez, I sure hope you don't ever get on anyone's
> > scam list. You're just ripe for ripping off.
>
> I was only soliciting advice! I thought that maybe people in this
> newsgroup would have some ideas that could help. In many newsgroups I
> have received excellent advice on matters ranging from car repair to
> restaurants. Usually there is someone around with a similar experience
> or who genuinely wants to help (Mattison was very helpful and kind!)
> Saying that I am "ripe for ripping off" is way out of line and
> insulting. Keep in mind that I am fully aware of the fact that I don't
> have to take the advice I am given.
>
> > If you want investment advice, my advice to you is to
> > seek out a reputable professional investment broker in whatever
> > it is you are planning to invest in -- art, securities,
> > real estate, antiques, or whatever.
>
> to an art newsgroup and ask about securities!
>
> >
> > my inventory that are guaranteed to appreciate at an
> > annual rate of 700 percent. I'll sell any of my works
> > to you at my 'special price' reserved for participants in R.A.F.
>
> Thank you for your helpful comments - now, get off this thread!
>
> - rw
There are a few very great artists lurkers on this group. They know
more about art stats than the 9'ers know their own football stats!
Most of the posers here and the negative jealous attitudes of the
posters cause the really interesting ones to post.
If you all only knew.
Sad.
Mattison Fitzgerald
Meek606
chips on shoulders. What is so crazy about wanting to invest in art? He was
only trying to find out opinions on what would be LIKELY to increase in value.
There are no guarantees, he knows that. But he also wants to know if his $5,000
will be wisely spent. $5,000 is alot of money to imagine as being frivolously
spent on a just a pretty picture. Posters are pretty, and they cost a lot less.
But paintings are something you can invest in that will bring you enjoyment
WHILE it is going up in value. I never saw anyone gazing at their stocks and
bonds with rapture. So get off the man's back! Why can't he buy art as both an
aesthetic pleasure AND an investment? If you could spend $50,000 on a beautiful
car, and you had a choice between one that had a $30,000 resale value and one
that had NO resale value, wouldn't you want to know? Wouldn't it make a
difference, if they both were equally beautiful? You bet your ass it would!
Your lofty ideals are all well and good, but some people live in the real
world where $5,000 has to bring the most bang for the buck. I'd be careful if I
had that kind of money to put into acquiring art too. I imagine that much of
this attitude is coming from artists, who feel defensive about their high price
tags and statuses of varying degrees. Relax!
-M
burnin...@my-deja.com
mee...@aol.com (Meek606) wrote:
> I don't know what is up with this newsgroup, but I sense a lot of
attitude and
> chips on shoulders.
Possibly it's just you.
> What is so crazy about wanting to invest in art?
Nothing other than it is normally a bad "investment". If you like it,
buy it. If you want investments, buy bonds.
> He was
> only trying to find out opinions on what would be LIKELY to increase
in value.
It's a dumb question.
> There are no guarantees, he knows that.
Then why ask?
> But he also wants to know if his $5,000
> will be wisely spent.
Probably not.
> $5,000 is alot of money to imagine as being frivolously
> spent on a just a pretty picture.
Then don't do it.
> Posters are pretty, and they cost a lot less.
Quite true.
> But paintings are something you can invest in that will bring you
enjoyment
> WHILE it is going up in value.
Assumption.
> I never saw anyone gazing at their stocks and
> bonds with rapture.
Obviously you didn't buy ebay at $12.00 ;>P
> So get off the man's back!
You having a bad day or something?
> Why can't he buy art as both an
> aesthetic pleasure AND an investment?
No one is saying that he can't. Only that it's not a good place
to "invest" money. Is that not clear to you?
> If you could spend $50,000 on a beautiful
> car, and you had a choice between one that had a $30,000 resale value
and one
> that had NO resale value, wouldn't you want to know?
It would seem that you've completely missed what most of the painters
here are saying.
> Wouldn't it make a
> difference, if they both were equally beautiful? You bet your ass it
would!
Whatever.
> Your lofty ideals are all well and good, but some people live in the
real
> world where $5,000 has to bring the most bang for the buck.
Clue, real-world-boy, if the $5,000 means that much to someone, they
damn sure shouldn't be laying it out for a painting.
> I'd be careful if I
> had that kind of money to put into acquiring art too.
Re-read above.
> I imagine that much of
> this attitude is coming from artists, who feel defensive about their
high price
> tags and statuses of varying degrees. Relax!
LOL :>P
Whatever. Have a nice day.
Erik A. Mattila
got to count for something.
Erik Mattila
kat...@dnai.com wrote:
> It's so interesting, Mattie, how the alleged "original posts" from
> your so-called "supporters" never seem to make it to the newsgroup.
> Wonder why THAT is?
>
> ~Artist~ <matt...@att.net> wrote:
>
> >Meek606 wrote:
> (supposedly)
>
> >> I don't know what is up with this newsgroup, but I sense a lot of attitude
> >>and chips on shoulders. What is so crazy about wanting to invest in art?
>
> >Lots of wanna bes here many too lazy to scarafice all of what it takes to
> >wear the Artist licsence.
>
> And one big-mouth bullshitter, too lazy to do anything for herself (as
> noted by her many ads to these newsgroups for an unpaid personal
> ass-wiper H^H^H^H assistant), who knows so little about "scarafice"
> (sic) that she can't even spell it.
>
> Do you keep your Artist "licsence" in your wallet, next to your Costco
> card and drivers license?
>
> >I also know people in this valley who mAde 1000.00 investments
> >5 years ago in my works who have seen their works gain value
> >ten times or more that original investment.
>
> Your tedious and boring "works" look like Spin Art from the Boardwalk,
> and have about as much soul and technique. Attempting to delude
> people into thinking they're worth $1K, much less $10K, with phoney
> "art-world" blather and hype, only proves the point that you're just
> a cheap hustler without a conscience.
>
> >You are right lots of chips on shoulders in this group.
>
> And the biggest one sits squarely on yours.
>
> >Let have dinner.
>
> Oh, please do -- and get this log-rolling smooch fest in private where
> it belongs.
>
> >Nice to finally see a brilliant mind o this group for a change.
>
> (As usual, anyone who doesn't buy your line is an ignorant
> philistine.)
>
> It's just so interesting that *I* don't see this "brilliant mind" in
> the newsgroup at all. Just another of those elusive posts that didn't
> make it... like so many of your other public "supporters".
>
> >I'll fly out just to talke art
>
> ...on my broom.
>
> >~ many a poser here
>
> You said it!
>
> >Have you all read the self-promotion newsletter yet?
>
> Better yet, have you all seen Mattie's new brochure yet? Just one
> look, and you'll understand where I'm coming from:
>
> http://www.rhinodev.com/M/799/BROCHURE79911.html
>
> And don't miss the Autographed Photo Of The ~Artist~:
>
> http://www.rhinodev.com/M/799/BROCHURE7991.html
>
> Is she:
> (a) showing us all how she gets her perspective?
> (b) in a tai chi pose?
> (c) casting a spell?
> (d) "sizing up" a potential buyer?
>
> >Mattison Fitzgerald
> >Artist
> Over 99 Billion Served
Meek606
>> car, and you had a choice between one that had a $30,000 resale value
>and one
>> that had NO resale value, wouldn't you want to know?
>
>It would seem that you've completely missed what most of the painters
>here are saying.
Au contraire. It would seem that you don't grasp the concept of people having
different opinions.
Can you just answer the question?
> Wouldn't it make a
>> difference, if they both were equally beautiful? You bet your ass it
>would!
>
>Whatever.
>
>
Excellent rebuttal! "Whatever". Oh, NOW I get it!
Again, can you answer? Would it make a difference to you?
O.K., if all painters are equal in "value", and it is the beauty of the work
that carries the price tag, then why not price a Picasso mimic the same as
Picasso? I have seen many painters produce work equalling any of the masters,
and they sure don't command millions of dollars for their work. Why not?
They're just as good. Why not price reproductions the same as the originals?
They look exactly the same! And if they look good, that's all that counts,
right? Better yet, why don't we set one price on ALL art, and solve this whole
problem? We can price it by the pound.
-M