Do your kids matter ?
~Artist~
City of San Francisco School Board is trying to completely cut the
arts from the schools tonite.
Please attend the School Board Meeting if you can and forward
these stats to your artist buddies.
Ask them to email the Mayor.
Obvioulsy they are under educated in the business of the arts.
Stats you need to know -
Especially if you want your kids to score higher on their tests.
Especially if you are trying to sell art computers or hire artists for
your tech gigs.
Stats from the Magnet School at the Kellogg School District in
Chula Vista.
Kids who have art in their cirrcullums in early school years score 35%
higher overall in math and science.
The Harris Poll of Americans
They favor Federal, State and Local invlovement in the arts.
56 % of Americans are willing to be taxes and xtra 10.00 for the arts
Econoimic Impact Report 1994 Sate of California
Spending on not for profit arts directly supports 115,00 jobs and adds
1 billion to the CA econmy.
Arts are magnet for tourism creating 288 million from tourists that
generates 158 million in income for Ca and 4,200 jobs
Not for Profit Arts organizations add 2.19 billion to the CA economy
Arts festivals generarte 11$ for each 1$ spent.
Artist are active citizens
86% of Artists Vote
(Politicians Take Note!)
50% of Artists Volunteer
74% of Artists Contribute to Charity
173,000 Californians invest ther time as voulnteers for the arts
Not for Profit Arts Organizations add more than 77 million in State
and local tax revenue.
At 15 I scored so high on my College Entrance tests they wanted me
to skip the first year of college. I told my Dad - Dad!, thats not why
you go to school - to get out!!!! - besides, I want to learn and I am
going to be an Artist!
Living Proof the Arts Matter. Thanks Mom! and Dad!
Mattison Fitzgerald
Artist
http://www.rhinodev.com/M
Recently archived ~ National Museum of Women in the Arts D.C.
First Film from Cannes Fim Festival on the Internet
Whos Who in the World, America, and the West ~ Arts
Nominated for Outstanding Young Californian
Recognized by the National Association of American Penn Women
for Outstanding in the Arts ~ Oldest Organization of Women Artists
and Writers in America off shoot of the National Press Club
Woman of Achievement - SiliconValley
More to think about....
Hi Steve, My mom asked me why my generations saves the whales
and trees and the next is killing each other.
RE: FLOWER POWER
Artist Mattison Fitzgerald adds Columbines to 'Flower Power'
Series
May 15, 1999
Over the last year, I have been working on a series of paintings
called 'Flower Power'. Today, I added a grouping of columbines to
the series as a message to American Artists and parents world wide
to stand up for support of creativity and the arts in your schools and
neighborhoods and communities. It is apparrent to me that why we
are seeing youth in America today continue to destroy each other is
that we are witnessing the first generation of kids who were raised
without the arts in their schools.
The fad for cutting the arts from schools has appeared to have
caught up with us in a very destructive trend of killings and suicides
as a release of frustration. Cutting of the arts has become a grave
and destructive mistake and our youth are paying for it in many
ways and even with their lives.
It is important for people to understand that when the arts were
removed from schools that what was removed was a venue for
understanding differences. When they cut the music programs they
removed a venue for developing achievement. When they removed
the dance and drawing classes they removed a mode of
communication that consistently allowed the arts to give a venue
and a way to support differences in everyone and allowed an
avenue for improvement of self esteem for young people.
The arts are of great importance to the cultural fabric of developed
countries and as we see a decline of the arts we see a decline of the
culture in total. Just like the romans verses the greeks in art
history. Today the demise of the arts can be translated to what we
are experiencing in the shootings of young people like in America
or suicides of youth in Japan. It is important that the arts be
employed at very heightened levels in our societies and cultures in
order to seek improvement and healing of the individual.
Heightened attention to coursework in the arts in schools around
America and elsewhere will allow people to understantd
themselves, will allow them to grow, develop, heal and improve in
areas where science and sports do not reach. Heightened support
of the arts will allow young people and communities to reach into
their souls, it will give them places to succeed in ways they would
never have tapped without the christening of a mural, without the
applause after performance. The arts allows the ability for kids to
dance at the sea and feel comfortable in simply expressing joys or
sorrows in forms that words cannot.
Just like the columbine in a series of paintings as a mark in time, the
ability to express feelings in ways that connect us without words
has geat value. The arts ability to empower thought that can
inspire others can build self esteem through symbolism and
symbolism is a powerful tool for leadership. This type of thinking
and communicating is learned through the arts.
By requiring the arts in the neighborhoods and in your childrens
lives you will be giving these kids a place to create, a place to grow
strong, a place to vent, a place to understand themselves, a place
to understand each other and a place to celebrate differences. By
allowing the arts in schools you will at the same time be allowing
the kids to develop key and important differences in themselves
that can also aid the development of strong self images and their
ability to understand the differences in others.
As it appears today, your kids lives quite well may depend on it. It
is important to demand that freedom of expression and arts
programs be added back into the National Education programming
for American kids and teens.
As I think back to my school years in a place just like Columbine
High School I can still remember the first and last names of jocs
who picked on the nerds. I remember as an artist at that school
how I hated seeing people treat each other that way.
I can remember how happy I was that my family valued creativity
enough to let me mature in mine as a place to escape and develop
on my own. I can remember that they allowed me to use the arts to
become an individual that valued my own differences and used
them as strengths to value other differences and strenghts for me
to succeed. I remember thinking how sorry I felt for the kids whos
parents did not allow the arts or did not value the arts they seemed
to have been missing so much.
Today, I wonder if all those kids at Columbine High might have
developed better images of themselves and their peers had they
been cultivated more each in their own creativity and freedom of
expression through the arts? I wonder had they had more
opportunities in the arts in their early years that they might have
understood differences of others and learned to be more tolerant of
those differences? I wonder had they had more exposure to the arts
and various dimensions of differences might they still be alive
today?
Artists know how understanding artwork adds to understanding
self. Artists know that through understanding you learn to accept
cultural differences by being different yourself. Artists learn that by
being different you are ok and you learn to tolerate more in
yourselves and in others. Artists learn all this through the arts and
artists bring much to the world through diverse thought and
questioning and sharing of ideas. All the things those parents at
columbine wish now that they could have shared with their kids to
understand what was really going on behind that tradgey but it is
now to late to ask.
The columbine blossom is now added to the 'Flower Power' series.
That series of paintings was concieved from a poetic dimension of
life which included personal and global tradgies, leadership,
moments, color, love and a positive wish for the future.
I think we would all agree that is what 'Flower Power' is about. I
think we would all agree that the columbine belongs in that flower
series as a symboic reminder that we all need to address the
symbolism of the flower power meanings through the arts. I think
we all need to pray that it is not to late to reach a generation of
kids. I think we need to recognize that the arts can teach the kids
that peace, love and creativity are important values that can be
cultivated through differences and revered in ourselves and others
throught the arts and we can teach them through the arts that care
matters.
Mattison Fitzgerald
Artist
http://www.rhinodevcom/M
matt...@att.net
burnin...@my-deja.com
~Artist~ <matt...@att.net> wrote:
> Romans - Greeks or Geeks ?
>
> City of San Francisco School Board is trying to completely cut the
> arts from the schools tonite.
God forbid that they be more concerned about teaching the little
beggars to read, write or add.
>
> Please attend the School Board Meeting if you can and forward
> these stats to your artist buddies.
>
> Ask them to email the Mayor.
>
> Obvioulsy they are under educated in the business of the arts.
>
> Stats you need to know -
More pseudo-psience BS.
Keep in mind the nonesense that the EPA and CDC have had to retract/
overturned in court as known BS.
A wonderful example is the recent 2nd hand smoking nonsense.
>
> Especially if you want your kids to score higher on their tests.
LOL :P
>
> Especially if you are trying to sell art computers or hire artists
for
> your tech gigs.
>
> Stats from the Magnet School at the Kellogg School District in
> Chula Vista.
That will make me rush right out.
>
> Kids who have art in their cirrcullums in early school years score 35%
> higher overall in math and science.
Assume this particular bit of news to be true. There is no indication
that this is a cause and effect relationship. This might be because
kids who were brighter tended to also take art and music. A more
probable view.
>
> The Harris Poll of Americans
>
> They favor Federal, State and Local invlovement in the arts.
>
> 56 % of Americans are willing to be taxes and xtra 10.00 for the arts
The polls also indicate that a majority of Americans don't want their
taxes raised. The results depend upon how you ask the question.
Politicians know what happens to them when they try to raise taxes.
>
> Econoimic Impact Report 1994 Sate of California
>
> Spending on not for profit arts directly supports 115,00 jobs and adds
> 1 billion to the CA econmy.
More to the point, it costs CA taxpayers 1 billion and produces
little to nothing.
>
> Arts are magnet for tourism creating 288 million from tourists that
> generates 158 million in income for Ca and 4,200 jobs
Yeah. Right. I can't tell you HOW many times I've heard someone
say, "I'm popping out to the big CA for the weekend to pick up some
art!". <snicker>
> Not for Profit Arts organizations add 2.19 billion to the CA economy
More appropriately, 2.19 billions dollars are removed from taxpayers
pockets.
>
> Arts festivals generarte 11$ for each 1$ spent.
Oh yeah. That magic money just pops out of thin air.
> Artist are active citizens
Whatever this means.
>
> 86% of Artists Vote
> (Politicians Take Note!)
Yes. And quite a number of them vote Republican and Libertarian.
>
> 50% of Artists Volunteer
Tax breaks/write offs.
> 74% of Artists Contribute to Charity
Ditto above.
>
> 173,000 Californians invest ther time as voulnteers for the arts
Wonderful. Ask them to donate some money.
>
> Not for Profit Arts Organizations add more than 77 million in State
> and local tax revenue.
More magic money just popping out of the air.
>
> At 15 I scored so high on my College Entrance tests they wanted me
> to skip the first year of college. I told my Dad - Dad!, thats not
why
> you go to school - to get out!!!! - besides, I want to learn and I am
> going to be an Artist!
>
> Living Proof the Arts Matter. Thanks Mom! and Dad!
"A well-used butcher's rag."
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
~Artist~
Discuission on cutting the arts in SF.
450 Church Street
Evans Middle School
7:00 pm
Kay
~Artist~ wrote in message <376FBC...@att.net>...
:Romans - Greeks or Geeks ?
:
:City of San Francisco School Board is trying to completely cut the
:arts from the schools tonite.
Most liberal city in the US trying this? Doubtful.
(snip)
:
:At 15 I scored so high on my College Entrance tests they wanted me
:to skip the first year of college. I told my Dad - Dad!, thats not why
:you go to school - to get out!!!! - besides, I want to learn and I am
:going to be an Artist!
Doubtful. A *perfect* SAT score is NOT a ticket to skip any year but will
get you scholarships and entrance into better universities.
:
:Living Proof the Arts Matter. Thanks Mom! and Dad!
:
:Mattison Fitzgerald
:Artist
:http://www.rhinodev.com/M
:Recently archived ~ National Museum of Women in the Arts D.C.
:First Film from Cannes Fim Festival on the Internet
:Whos Who in the World, America, and the West ~ Arts
I don't know about the others but I would have been in this one too except I
didn't send in the money they asked for the cost of publishing. I thought
it was a scam. You sent in the money, I guess.
:Nominated for Outstanding Young Californian
:Recognized by the National Association of American Penn Women
:for Outstanding in the Arts ~ Oldest Organization of Women Artists
:and Writers in America off shoot of the National Press Club
:Woman of Achievement - SiliconValley
:
(snipping Columbine massacre self-promo)
:The arts are of great importance to the cultural fabric of developed
:countries and as we see a decline of the arts we see a decline of the
:culture in total. Just like the romans verses the greeks in art
:history. Today the demise of the arts can be translated to what we
:are experiencing in the shootings of young people like in America
:or suicides of youth in Japan.
Just like the Romans versus the Greeks in art history???? What in the hell
are you referring to???
Kay
(snipping the rest of the promo package, we have it memorized by now)
:Mattison Fitzgerald
:Artist
:http://www.rhinodevcom/M
:matt...@att.net
Kay
burnin...@my-deja.com wrote:
:> 86% of Artists Vote
:> (Politicians Take Note!)
:
:Yes. And quite a number of them vote Republican and Libertarian.
True, I know quite a few artists who vote Republican.
:
:> 50% of Artists Volunteer
:
:Tax breaks/write offs.
Just for pre-set mileage.
:
:> 74% of Artists Contribute to Charity
:
:Ditto above.
:
No, only Cost of materials. Not labor, not time, nothing...
Kay
"Do you know what he needs? Two or three shock treatments,"
Mary George said. "Get that artist business right out of his head once
and for all." (from "An Enduring Chill" by Flannery O'Connor)
~Artist~
> :
> :City of San Francisco School Board is trying to completely cut the
> :arts from the schools tonite.
>
>
> (snip)
> :
> :to skip the first year of college. I told my Dad - Dad!, thats not why
> :you go to school - to get out!!!! - besides, I want to learn and I am
> :going to be an Artist!
>
> get you scholarships and entrance into better universities.
Obviously you were not invited to do so ... it is called CLEPing out.
Score high enough you get to choose if you want to CLEPout.
>
> :
> :Living Proof the Arts Matter. Thanks Mom! and Dad!
> :
> :Mattison Fitzgerald
> :Artist
> :http://www.rhinodev.com/M
> :Recently archived ~ National Museum of Women in the Arts D.C.
> :First Film from Cannes Fim Festival on the Internet
>
> :Whos Who in the World, America, and the West ~ Arts
>
> I don't know about the others but I would have been in this one too except I
> didn't send in the money they asked for the cost of publishing. I thought
> it was a scam. You sent in the money, I guess.
>
> :Nominated for Outstanding Young Californian
> :Recognized by the National Association of American Penn Women
> :for Outstanding in the Arts ~ Oldest Organization of Women Artists
> :and Writers in America off shoot of the National Press Club
> :Woman of Achievement - SiliconValley
> :
> (snipping Columbine massacre self-promo)
>
> :The arts are of great importance to the cultural fabric of developed
> :countries and as we see a decline of the arts we see a decline of the
> :culture in total. Just like the romans verses the greeks in art
> :history. Today the demise of the arts can be translated to what we
> :are experiencing in the shootings of young people like in America
> :or suicides of youth in Japan.
>
> Just like the Romans versus the Greeks in art history???? What in the hell
> are you referring to???
> Kay
>
> (snipping the rest of the promo package, we have it memorized by now)
> :Mattison Fitzgerald
> :Artist
> :http://www.rhinodevcom/M
> :matt...@att.net
~Artist~
> >
> > City of San Francisco School Board is trying to completely cut the
> > arts from the schools tonite.
>
> beggars to read, write or add.
God forbid they be as informed as you.
>
> >
> > Please attend the School Board Meeting if you can and forward
> > these stats to your artist buddies.
> >
> > Ask them to email the Mayor.
> >
> > Obvioulsy they are under educated in the business of the arts.
> >
> > Stats you need to know -
>
> More pseudo-psience BS.
>
> Keep in mind the nonesense that the EPA and CDC have had to retract/
> overturned in court as known BS.
>
> A wonderful example is the recent 2nd hand smoking nonsense.
>
> >
> > Especially if you want your kids to score higher on their tests.
>
> LOL :P
>
> >
> > Especially if you are trying to sell art computers or hire artists
> for
> > your tech gigs.
> >
> > Stats from the Magnet School at the Kellogg School District in
> > Chula Vista.
>
> That will make me rush right out.
>
> >
> > Kids who have art in their cirrcullums in early school years score 35%
> > higher overall in math and science.
>
> Assume this particular bit of news to be true. There is no indication
> that this is a cause and effect relationship. This might be because
> kids who were brighter tended to also take art and music. A more
> probable view.
>
> >
> > The Harris Poll of Americans
> >
> > They favor Federal, State and Local invlovement in the arts.
> >
> > 56 % of Americans are willing to be taxes and xtra 10.00 for the arts
>
> The polls also indicate that a majority of Americans don't want their
> taxes raised. The results depend upon how you ask the question.
>
> Politicians know what happens to them when they try to raise taxes.
>
> >
> > Econoimic Impact Report 1994 Sate of California
> >
> > Spending on not for profit arts directly supports 115,00 jobs and adds
> > 1 billion to the CA econmy.
>
> More to the point, it costs CA taxpayers 1 billion and produces
> little to nothing.
>
> >
> > Arts are magnet for tourism creating 288 million from tourists that
> > generates 158 million in income for Ca and 4,200 jobs
>
> Yeah. Right. I can't tell you HOW many times I've heard someone
> say, "I'm popping out to the big CA for the weekend to pick up some
> art!". <snicker>
>
> > Not for Profit Arts organizations add 2.19 billion to the CA economy
>
> More appropriately, 2.19 billions dollars are removed from taxpayers
> pockets.
>
> >
> > Arts festivals generarte 11$ for each 1$ spent.
>
> Oh yeah. That magic money just pops out of thin air.
>
> > Artist are active citizens
>
> Whatever this means.
>
> >
> > 86% of Artists Vote
> > (Politicians Take Note!)
>
> Yes. And quite a number of them vote Republican and Libertarian.
>
> >
> > 50% of Artists Volunteer
>
> Tax breaks/write offs.
>
> > 74% of Artists Contribute to Charity
>
> Ditto above.
>
> >
> > 173,000 Californians invest ther time as voulnteers for the arts
>
> Wonderful. Ask them to donate some money.
>
> >
> > Not for Profit Arts Organizations add more than 77 million in State
> > and local tax revenue.
>
> More magic money just popping out of the air.
>
> >
> > At 15 I scored so high on my College Entrance tests they wanted me
> > to skip the first year of college. I told my Dad - Dad!, thats not
> why
> > you go to school - to get out!!!! - besides, I want to learn and I am
> > going to be an Artist!
> >
> > Living Proof the Arts Matter. Thanks Mom! and Dad!
>
Kay
~Artist~ wrote in message <37702E...@att.net>...:> :Romans - Greeks or Geeks ?
:> :
:> :City of San Francisco School Board is trying to completely cut the
:> :arts from the schools tonite.
:> Most liberal city in the US trying this? Doubtful.
No response from snipper, typical.
:> (snip)
:> :
:> :At 15 I scored so high on my College Entrance tests they wanted me
:> :to skip the first year of college. I told my Dad - Dad!, thats not why
:> :you go to school - to get out!!!! - besides, I want to learn and I am
:> :going to be an Artist!
:>
:> Doubtful. A *perfect* SAT score is NOT a ticket to skip any year but
will
:> get you scholarships and entrance into better universities.
:
:Obviously you were not invited to do so ... it is called CLEPing out.
Gee, Mattison, what's obvious to most doesn't seem to be obvious to you...
You are talking about the CLEP tests? You can get your first year of
college done while you are still in high school, bright girl! Didn't your
high school guidance councelor know that your were such a genius and get rid
of the year of college while you were in high school? Why did they have to
wait till you took your college entrance tests? I don't hear the "CLEP"
term applied much anymore. Now I hear the term "Credit by Examination" and
you shouldn't assume anything, bubblehead. Like Erik Mattila, I completed my
BFA in 2 years. Burningchrome has stated he has a genius IQ. Now what are
your REAL intellectual credentials that you can brag about?
::Score high enough you get to choose if you want to CLEPout.
Oh, I get it. You CHOSE NOT to CLEP out because you were so dedicated to
learning... Very apparent.:
:
:> :Living Proof the Arts Matter. Thanks Mom! and Dad!
(hallucination at some type of Awards ceremony)
(snip)
Mattison wrote:
:> :Whos Who in the World, America, and the West ~ Arts
Kay replied:
:> I don't know about the others but I would have been in this one too
except I
:> didn't send in the money they asked for the cost of publishing. I
thought
:> it was a scam. You sent in the money, I guess.
:
:> (snipping Columbine massacre self-promo)
:>
:> :The arts are of great importance to the cultural fabric of developed
:> :countries and as we see a decline of the arts we see a decline of the
:> :culture in total. Just like the romans verses the greeks in art
:> :history. Today the demise of the arts can be translated to what we
:> :are experiencing in the shootings of young people like in America
:> :or suicides of youth in Japan.
:>
:> Just like the Romans versus the Greeks in art history???? What in the
hell
:> are you referring to???
:> Kay
I noticed that you didn't answer the above, Ms. CLAP test.
Kay
:> (snipping the rest of the promo package, we have it memorized by now)
:> :Mattison Fitzgerald
:> :Artist
:> :http://www.rhinodevcom/M
:> :matt...@att.net
Peter Nelson
> ticket to skip any year but will get you scholarships and entrance
> into better universities.
This isn't entirely true. Thanks to my SAT's and other high
school achievement tests I managed to enter college with
12 of my required 120 credits already on the books. Granted,
that's not an academic year, but it's almost a semester.
---peter
burnin...@my-deja.com
"Kay" <scarl...@theriver.com> wrote:
>
> burnin...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> :> 86% of Artists Vote
> :> (Politicians Take Note!)
> :
> :Yes. And quite a number of them vote Republican and Libertarian.
>
> True, I know quite a few artists who vote Republican.
> :
> :
> :Tax breaks/write offs.
>
> Just for pre-set mileage.
> :
> :> 74% of Artists Contribute to Charity
> :
> :Ditto above.
> :
> No, only Cost of materials. Not labor, not time, nothing...
I've received the official, signed form for retail price for work
which was auctioned for charity. I must be lucky.
Jillian
plne...@mediaone.net says...
My granddaughter entered college in the sophomore year.
She simultaneously obtained credit for both her high
school and college course work while still in high school.
I was able to enter my BFA program at the sophomore
level -- not on the basis of any high test scores but
because, as a practicing artist for many years prior
to returning to school, and because I was a mature
(to put it mildly) adult, I had a portfolio of works
to back up my claims to an already long artistic endeavor.
Chris Brobeck
Nicholas Berry wrote:
[...big snip...]
>
>
> To get back to the point I would say in finishing my rant I believe this is
> not just a case of whether your Children matter but whether democracy and
> freedom of expression matter and should remain central to the American and
> indeed Western way of life for always.
>
Well as one of those right wingers (Libertarian) I'd have to point out that he
who pays the piper calls the tunes - so when gov't foots the bill directly for
education, we get the orderly mush that is selected for us, on quite a
bureaucratic basis.
If gov't is going to insist on involving itself - and I assume they will - then
I'd prefer that they go the charter school route, so parents can have a direct
say in how their individual school is run, and can move their children easily to
schools that are in line with their own personal philosophies.
Otherwise - in the public system, we have to physically move households. I did
this myself when my son was entering primary - and moved from an area with poor
schooling to one whose elementary school has a reputation for parental
involvement, and independent-minded, good teachers & have been very pleased
with the results.
FWIW - though the cuts to art & music are often seen as a Bad Thing, it has
forced parents & teachers (at least here) to pick up the slack on their own. Now
that the arts/music budget is toast (for all intents & purposes) the elementary
school my son attends has numerous (professional) concerts for the children,
ranging from jazz to indigenous to classical music, and art show, etc. His
teacher (now grade 3) has put her own time into taking art classes & passing
what she has learned to her class, etc.
So much of education is getting children to understand the responsibility they
have for their own community, for their own progress, their own well being, etc.
- having all come from on high is hence self defeating.
Oh - and before you condemn Thatcher too much - note that if she hadn't done a
job on the unions, running your own mini-trucking company might not have been
quite so easy ...Care to lend her to Canada for awhile?
Anyway, that's my .02 dollarettes....
Cheers;
Chris
Nicholas Berry
~Artist~ <matt...@att.net> wrote in message news:376FBC...@att.net...
I suppose the trouble with arts education is that it is interpretative. If
you teach children to think for themselves they will make adults who may not
follow orders and are difficult to control. As far as I can see right wing
politicians believe Society needs good little robots to work in its
factories and consume the right products, people that don't question
authority or the values of society no matter how insane.
In my view this is a method of undermining democracy since if people are
taught WHAT to think and not HOW to think, you end up with a society of
morons with received knowledge, received ideas, received morality, a nation
of people unable to think and make rational choices. Which leads to stagnant
totalitarianism whilst maintaining an illusion of freedom, because such
people are easily fooled (this is the whole point). Such policies can even
lead to extreme fascism because the members of such a society will only know
how to follow orders since all individuality is suppressed.
Personally I believe in the UK this was Thatcher's fascist master plan and
was to a large extent a republican/ Libertarian/ Conservative agenda of the
80s. As an artist this was always blatantly obvious to me. Personally I
think it is evil and the sort of thing that should have been buried with
Adolf Hitler and Dr Goebels (artists who became seduced by the dark side of
the force methinks) and the rest of their cronies and it is sad that such
draconian underhanded methods still exist at the very heart of western
civilisation.
Although as a Brit I only have a vague awareness of the United States
Constitution. I would think that to deny a proper full and balanced
education to children would be unconstitutional because it undermines
freedom of the individual to think, and therefore destroys freedom of
expression and democracy. Fortunately the US has a constitution unlike the
UK where it often seems to me people can be brainwashed, fed propaganda via
the media and fooled by practically any crank politician or political party
or even by commercial advertising to consume various products and they all
go out to buy little stamps at the post office and stick them in a little
book to save up for their TV licences like good little law abiding robots to
pay for this shite. Madness. But who am I to comment I'm just a mad artist
;-}
To get back to the point I would say in finishing my rant I believe this is
not just a case of whether your Children matter but whether democracy and
freedom of expression matter and should remain central to the American and
indeed Western way of life for always.
Nick
--
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
ni...@artberry.demon.co.uk
http://www.artberry.demon.co.uk/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Alison A Raimes
routine>
In article <930271912.7220.0...@news.demon.co.uk>,
Nicholas Berry <ni...@artberry.demon.co.uk> writes
<snipped some good stuff for brevity>
>Personally I believe in the UK this was Thatcher's fascist master plan and
>was to a large extent a republican/ Libertarian/ Conservative agenda of the
>80s. As an artist this was always blatantly obvious to me. Personally I
>think it is evil and the sort of thing that should have been buried with
>Adolf Hitler and Dr Goebels (artists who became seduced by the dark side of
>the force methinks) and the rest of their cronies and it is sad that such
>draconian underhanded methods still exist at the very heart of western
>civilisation.
Nick is exactly right - this is how I also perceive the years of
Thatcherism - unfortunately I was sucked into the vortex of the master
plan and later spat out when the master plan went drastically wrong.
>
>Although as a Brit I only have a vague awareness of the United States
>Constitution. I would think that to deny a proper full and balanced
>education to children would be unconstitutional because it undermines
>freedom of the individual to think, and therefore destroys freedom of
>expression and democracy. Fortunately the US has a constitution unlike the
>UK where it often seems to me people can be brainwashed, fed propaganda via
>the media and fooled by practically any crank politician or political party
>or even by commercial advertising to consume various products and they all
>go out to buy little stamps at the post office and stick them in a little
>book to save up for their TV licences like good little law abiding robots to
>pay for this shite. Madness. But who am I to comment I'm just a mad artist
>;-}
>
>To get back to the point I would say in finishing my rant I believe this is
>not just a case of whether your Children matter but whether democracy and
>freedom of expression matter and should remain central to the American and
>indeed Western way of life for always.
>
>Nick
Actually I think the US and the UK have a very similar constitution -
except that in Britain a *right* is considered to be a privilege whilst
in the US it is a tool. Our society has followed the American way for so
long now - believing that we should model ourselves on them that soon we
will have no *free* education and no *free* Health service and social
security will be refused after six months.
Alison
ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
Cable Street Open Studios, Limehouse, London E1
2nd July 6-9pm; 3/4th July 12-6pm
Hutto
> Our society has followed the American way for so
> long now - believing that we should model ourselves on them that soon we
> will have no *free* education and no *free* Health service and social
> security will be refused after six months.
You don't really think it's "free" do you?
If you guys ever manage to get the socialist millstone from around your
necks you'd find yourselves with a lot more pocket change. Likewise, your
FREE health care would be worth MONEY, which means there'd be competition,
which means lower general practitioner rates, and you could PAY for the
QUALITY care of your CHOICE instead getting minimal government hand-out
care that currently affords you your lower national life expectancies and
horrible teeth.
Really, why should you donate hard-earned paycheck percentages to pay for
health care you don't need? You're paying for everybody else's doctor
bills while you're perfectly healthy! Is that a reasonable expectation,
considering that the care provided by the government is inferior to the
care you could afford to buy yourself in a competitive system without such
undue burdens on your salary?
It's understandable how such a change is uncomfortable, having lived
underneath a social democracy for most if not all of your life, but for
the most part, the more you get to keep of your own money the better.
Here in America the taxes are ridiculous, and they aren't even CLOSE to
what most European democracies have to pay, not to mention other
democracies, such as Australia and New Zealand, who have confiscatory
rates reaching near 70% of household incomes. Then there are the pansy
French who are pretty much complete socialists, as well as the useless
Scandanavian nations who have mentally deranged tax rates and legal drugs
and whores. Talk about government benefits...
Socialism is contrary to freedom. Social Democracy means that you can vote
on how the government controls your life. Support all efforts toward
freedom, even if it means replacing your broken-down health care system
(Oh, the horror...).
JAH
Alison A Raimes
Hutto <ja...@isis.msstate.edu> writes
>
>> Our society has followed the American way for so
>> long now - believing that we should model ourselves on them that soon we
>> will have no *free* education and no *free* Health service and social
>> security will be refused after six months.
>
>You don't really think it's "free" do you?
Obviously not .... durrrrrrr, I guess you didn't think we could work
that out for ourselves, dummy head. Guess you don't understand the use
of the * either or know that sarcasm is an integrated part of British
expression.
Hutto: concentrate of learning to be an artist kiddo - you ain't ready
to discuss politics with the big boys. And for goodness sakes do
something about that website of yours - how can you ever expect to get a
job as a web designer with this stuff: http://www.ra.msstate.edu/~jah10/
Alison
Alison A Raimes
Nicholas Berry <ni...@artberry.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>To get back to the point I would say in finishing my rant I believe this is
>not just a case of whether your Children matter but whether democracy and
>freedom of expression matter and should remain central to the American and
>indeed Western way of life for always.
>
>Nick
>--
>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
> ni...@artberry.demon.co.uk
> http://www.artberry.demon.co.uk/
>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>
Hutto, in his confused state of mind, missed off the headers to his
response which would have been tragic in excluding you all from a
response - here is his very intelligent letter which is gathering dust
on raf.... you will have to excuse him - he had a very poor education at
Mississippi State University and doesn't seem to quite have a grip on
the term *free*.
I wrote:
> Our society has followed the American way for so
> long now - believing that we should model ourselves on them that soon we
> will have no *free* education and no *free* Health service and social
> security will be refused after six months.
Hutto replied:
You don't really think it's "free" do you?
If you guys ever manage to get the socialist millstone from around your
JAH
Not to be missed at:
http://www2.msstate.edu~jah10
burnin...@my-deja.com
Alison A Raimes <ali...@address.in.signature> wrote:
>
> Actually I think the US and the UK have a very similar constitution -
> except that in Britain a *right* is considered to be a privilege
whilst
> in the US it is a tool.
I'll assume you're correct about your view of your system. However,
you're incorrect about the US, for the most part. There are some
on the extremes of both sides who feel as do you.
> Our society has followed the American way for so
> long now - believing that we should model ourselves on them that soon
we
> will have no *free* education and no *free* Health service and social
> security will be refused after six months.
LOL :P
You **NEVER** get something for free. It's only a question of how
the bill is paid. What you really complain about is being asked
to pay for services you want directly from *YOUR* pocket. In the long
run, it's always costs less to pay for things directly rather than
having a government cog pay the bill with tax dollars reduced by
46% for government overhead.
Canada instituted government controlled health care. The US doctors
love it. Now when Canadians are sick and stacked for months in a queue
waiting to see a doctor, those with money pop down across the border
and pay a US doctor for something they can get for "FREE" from
a Canadian doctor. Socialized medicine in Canada has done nice things
for the income of American doctors.
Alison A Raimes
writes
>I'll assume you're correct about your view of your system. However,
>you're incorrect about the US, for the most part. There are some
>on the extremes of both sides who feel as do you.
Very true :-)
>
>You **NEVER** get something for free. It's only a question of how
>the bill is paid. What you really complain about is being asked
>to pay for services you want directly from *YOUR* pocket. In the long
>run, it's always costs less to pay for things directly rather than
>having a government cog pay the bill with tax dollars reduced by
>46% for government overhead.
I was being sarcastic ! My post was addressed to another Brit and needs
to be put in context alongside what he was saying.
We pay around 20 percent income tax and a variable rate percent of our
income in national insurance contributions and in return get a national
health service and a social security system plus free education, which
until this year, extended right through University level where students
were maintained by government grants for the duration of their studies.
During the five years I studied I received approximately ten thousand
pounds in government grants and all my fees were paid - somehow I don't
think the couple of hundred pounds per year that I have contributed in
national insurance contributions could ever have covered that alone not
to even start considering the other benefits I have made use of.
The British will only know how lucky they have been all these years when
this system is gone.
Alison
ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
Hutto
On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Alison A Raimes wrote:
> Obviously not .... durrrrrrr, I guess you didn't think we could work
> that out for ourselves, dummy head.
No, or at least, I didn't think YOU could...
> Guess you don't understand the use
> of the * either or know that sarcasm is an integrated part of British
> expression.
British Expression is an oxymoron isn't it? Or is it that you are a
British Moron? I get my terms all mixed up...
"*" is generally used to emphasize items enclosed between or following
them. Sarcasm or stupidity is inferred, not implied - In your case, I will
always take stupidity for granted. Pardon me, you have been being
sarcastic all the while. On the other hand, what is ineffective sarcasm
but more stupidity?
> Hutto: concentrate of learning to be an artist kiddo -
OK. I will begin by learning from you, my talented colleague.
> you ain't ready
> to discuss politics with the big boys.
I must admit, you do LOOK male, but I figured the name Alison meant that
you were female. I guess it's another British thing. Go figure.
> And for goodness sakes do
> something about that website of yours - how can you ever expect to get a
> job as a web designer with this stuff: http://www.ra.msstate.edu/~jah10/
Thanks for the plug. Next time, bother to go to the site before you make
stupid remarks...You might actually quote the right URL.
I guess I should copy the code from your site. I mean, you have FRAMES on
yours. FRAMES equals quality design.
I've been designing web pages since 1989. I have built and dismantled
every kind of page there is. I prefer my personal pages to be minimal and
basic. I get jobs based upon the work I do for clients, you ignorant feeb.
Apparently, you aren't in the business. Besides, my personal site is in
redesign, so of course there isn't much there. Why do you think I don't
refer people there lately? Normally, I'd have a sig listing my
URL...Hmmmm...
Foo.
Hutto
burnin...@my-deja.com
Alison A Raimes <ali...@address.in.signature> wrote:
(...)
>
> The British will only know how lucky they have been all these years
when
> this system is gone.
Do you refer to the ones paying the taxes to support the subsidy
or to the people collecting the subsidy?
The people paying for the subsidy will probably be quite happy when
it's gone.
Erik Johnson
> I've been designing web pages since 1989. I have built and dismantled
> every kind of page there is. I prefer my personal pages to be minimal and
> basic. I get jobs based upon the work I do for clients, you ignorant feeb.
> Apparently, you aren't in the business. Besides, my personal site is in
> redesign, so of course there isn't much there. Why do you think I don't
> refer people there lately? Normally, I'd have a sig listing my
> URL...Hmmmm...
Unless you are Tim Berners-Lee, who first proposed the concept of distributed
hypertext in 1989, please enlighten us as to how you could possibly have been
designing webpages since then? That predates even gopher. CERN gave us the
original html in 1992. NCSA gave us the first graphical browser in 1993 and
the
web as we know it was born.
So what exactly were you doing in 1989? Hypercard maybe?
Erik Johnson
er...@edj.net
www.edj.net
Alison A Raimes
Hutto <ja...@isis.msstate.edu> writes
>British Expression is an oxymoron isn't it? Or is it that you are a
>British Moron? I get my terms all mixed up...
I think everyone appreciates and sympathises with your dyslexia, dear
thing. You can get help these days you know.
>Thanks for the plug. Next time, bother to go to the site before you make
>stupid remarks...You might actually quote the right URL.
I do apologise - corrected it in my re-post of your highly intelligent
evaluation of the European health and education system. My, my how
informed you are. I am in awe of you.
I snipped your bit about me looking like a man because I know it was
written in jealousy to my blow job with Mani. Its ok to be jealous,
Jason - just don't let it consume your heart ;-)
>I've been designing web pages since 1989. I have built and dismantled
>every kind of page there is. I prefer my personal pages to be minimal and
>basic.
You succeeded.
>I get jobs based upon the work I do for clients, you ignorant feeb.
>Apparently, you aren't in the business.
Correct. I employ someone to do mine.
>Besides, my personal site is in
>redesign, so of course there isn't much there. Why do you think I don't
>refer people there lately? Normally, I'd have a sig listing my
>URL...Hmmmm...
1989 eh ? well maybe you will get it right eventually. Good Luck. You
might want to consider working to deadlines ... that helps in the
graphics business. Your site has been like this for months. I loved the
photo of you. You looked just like I imagined you would.
Maybe you should consider using it to promote your work as an artist -
you seem so reluctant to post pictures of your work and yet have no
trouble advertising yourself. I find your self promotion most
forthcoming despite your obvious dyslexia - that's admirable:
~Jason A. Hutto, and American painting artist,
would like to meet a person or persons, call them
peopleX, who have the guts to praise AND buy his paintings.
He only knows that peopleX live in the big planet Earth area,
and that they have impeccable taste.
Other than that, he encourages sellers, buyers, and
concerned parties related to or friends with artists
to figure things out on their own...
Further he advises said people not to look gift hosses
straight in the teeth...but to take the damn money and be
glad yer gettin it...
Aloha
--
This has been a message from : Jason A. Hutto (Brother Alphabet)
----------------------------------------------------------------
ja...@ra.msstate.edu | http://www2.msstate.edu/~jah10
Hutto
On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Erik Johnson wrote:
> I'm sure I will regret jumping into your spitting match, but you state...
> > I've been designing web pages since 1989. I have built and dismantled
DOH! This was a mis-statement...1989 was when I got my first internet
account...:) I got my memories crossed.
> Unless you are Tim Berners-Lee, who first proposed the concept of distributed
> hypertext in 1989, please enlighten us as to how you could possibly have been
> designing webpages since then?
I wasn't :) - 1991 is when I started. Text-Based Lynx indexes (woo hoo)
and grphical pages when NCSA Mosaic was available...don't recall when that
was.
> So what exactly were you doing in 1989? Hypercard maybe?
Ack. I did some of that, too, but I've never liked Hypercard...
Sorry for the error...I didn't intentionally overstate my experience :)
Hutto
Hutto
On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Alison A Raimes wrote:
> >British Expression is an oxymoron isn't it? Or is it that you are a
> >British Moron? I get my terms all mixed up...
>
> I think everyone appreciates and sympathises with your dyslexia, dear
> thing. You can get help these days you know.
Hcum yrev uoy kcuf.
As is your way, when confronted with the inability to speak functionally,
you invent things to insult folks with.
> I do apologise - corrected it in my re-post of your highly intelligent
> evaluation of the European health and education system. My, my how
> informed you are.
I didn't say a word about your education system. Does it suck, too?
> I am in awe of you.
Houseplants strike awe in you, too, I'm sure. I'll take that for what it's
worth.
> I snipped your bit about me looking like a man because I know it was
> written in jealousy to my blow job with Mani. Its ok to be jealous,
> Jason - just don't let it consume your heart ;-)
Oops! Nailed that one.
> >every kind of page there is. I prefer my personal pages to be minimal and
> >basic.
>
> You succeeded.
Naturally.
> Correct. I employ someone to do mine.
Fire them. They are no good.
> 1989 eh ? well maybe you will get it right eventually. Good Luck.
Maybe. I sure do hope so.
> You
> might want to consider working to deadlines ... that helps in the
> graphics business.
Yeah, I'll set deadlines for my own site and make them top priority over
paying clients. Good plan.
> Your site has been like this for months.
Ah...even the graphics I just created last week? Which ones are they? Oh,
all of them.
> I loved the
> photo of you. You looked just like I imagined you would.
I'll send you a wall-sized print.
> Maybe you should consider using it to promote your work as an artist -
> you seem so reluctant to post pictures of your work and yet have no
> trouble advertising yourself.
I don't recall advertising any paintings here lately...Must have been the
other me.
> I find your self promotion most
> forthcoming despite your obvious dyslexia - that's admirable:
Er...yeah...Dyslexia really keeps me down, but I'm a fighter, so...er...I
keep at it. Yeah. I'm a trooper. That's me. Keep on keepin on, despite my
obvious dyslexia.
> ~Jason A. Hutto, and American painting artist,
> would like to meet a person or persons, call them
> peopleX, who have the guts to praise AND buy his paintings.
Actually, that's true. :)
> He only knows that peopleX live in the big planet Earth area,
> and that they have impeccable taste.
I don't know if they really do live in the planet Earth area.
> Other than that, he encourages sellers, buyers, and
> concerned parties related to or friends with artists
> to figure things out on their own...
You're lasping into incoherence. Must be the obvious diabetes,
gout and menopause.
> Further he advises said people not to look gift hosses
> straight in the teeth...but to take the damn money and be
> glad yer gettin it...
That's exactly what I'd say if I were writing this, if I were an
inarticulate british hag, and if I were completely incapable of mumbling
anything remotely useful.
> --
> This has been a message from : Jason A. Hutto (Brother Alphabet)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ja...@ra.msstate.edu | http://www2.msstate.edu/~jah10
Thanks for going to the trouble of digging up a sig file I haven't used in
an eon. It's quite a compliment to see how much you care about attempting
to insult me. I'm terched.
Hutto
Alison A Raimes
writes
>Unless you are Tim Berners-Lee, who first proposed the concept of distributed
>hypertext in 1989, please enlighten us as to how you could possibly have been
>designing webpages since then? That predates even gopher. CERN gave us the
>original html in 1992. NCSA gave us the first graphical browser in 1993 and
>the
>web as we know it was born.
>
>So what exactly were you doing in 1989? Hypercard maybe?
>
>Erik Johnson
>er...@edj.net
>www.edj.net
Picking his nose Erik - he was 18 yrs old !
There's a career to be had in spotting Hutto's contradictions and
blatant lies.
Alison.
ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
Hutto
On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Alison A Raimes wrote:
> Picking his nose Erik - he was 18 yrs old !
My nose is not named Erik.
> There's a career to be had in spotting Hutto's contradictions and
> blatant lies.
Really? How much does it pay?
Alison Raimes is a painter who is both talented and attractive.
How much is that one worth?
Hutto
Erik Johnson
I was only 19 then. Nothing wrong with being young!
I miss those days when a week was actually a long time...
you could accomplish a lot and still have time for nose picking.
Now if the two of you would just kiss and make up...
there is no point in perpetually tossing venom back and forth.
Erik Johnson
er...@edj.net
www.edj.net
Kay
Erik A. Mattila wrote in message <377AE9CB...@tomatoweb.com>...
:A friend of mine had a few days off the same time as his wife, so they
decided on
:a whirlwind visit to Art Galleries in London and Paris. After a few busy
days
:looking in London, they were on their way to Paris. However, while rushing
to
:the train at Victoria Station, my friend, luggage in hand, stepped on a
newspaper
:lying in the marble floor, and it was ass over teakettle and he landed on
his
:knee, shattering his kneecap. Grunnnngh. The injury required an
ambulance,
:major surgery, and a couple of weeks in a British hospita. He said the
hospital
:was a converted WWII building, but quite cheerful and pleasant. He said
the
:staff and the medical care were outstanding.
:
:When he was released thay gave him a bill for about US $500.00, but added
that
:they really didn't have the means to insure that he would pay, and asked
him to
:pay as a courtesy. Of course he agreed (he was a bit overwhelmed by the
low
:cost.) When he got home, his Insurance company gladly paid -- of course!
:
:But you know, we Americans don't value things unless it costs a lot of
money.
:Here Doctors become moderately wealthy — and the standard justification is
"all
:those years in medical school, sacrificing." But really, several
professions
:that require long years of study are not as well paid. And the standard
excuse
:for extremely high medical costs is insurance rates from malpractice suits.
Yet,
:regardless of high insurance rated, US Doctors never the less manage to
make
:enough money for all sorts of non-medical investiments etc. But look at if
from
:a cultural point of view. People in the God Business solicit enormous
amonts of
:money from Americans, and the key to good solicitiation is an
ostententatious
:display of wealth. Doctors -- well, Americans wouldn't trust them,
probably, if
:they didn't see the Mercedes Benz in the parking lot.
:
:Personally, I think the medical machine in the US is reprehensible -- an
:artififact right out of the Dark Ages. But, on the other hand, medicos do
have
:excess cash for discretionary spending -- maybe even fine art.
:
:Erik Mattila:
Great post, Erik! I have a friend whose knee quit working and won't
straighten out. 5 months now. She went to an orthopedic surgeon (referral)
who told her she needs surgery to straighten it out. She has no insurance
though her husband works for the U.S. Forestry Dept. (they cut his benefits
and pay rate). Well, Mr. Dr. Orthopedic Surgeon told her that she couldn't
make payment, not even giving him post-dated checks because he "had a bad
experience with that - the patient died and he never got paid" Just one of
millions of medical horror stories here.
Erik A. Mattila
Erik Mattila
Alison A Raimes wrote:
> In article <377A6718...@edj.net>, Erik Johnson <er...@edj.net>
> writes
>
> >Unless you are Tim Berners-Lee, who first proposed the concept of distributed
> >hypertext in 1989, please enlighten us as to how you could possibly have been
> >designing webpages since then? That predates even gopher. CERN gave us the
> >original html in 1992. NCSA gave us the first graphical browser in 1993 and
> >the
> >web as we know it was born.
> >
> >So what exactly were you doing in 1989? Hypercard maybe?
> >
> >Erik Johnson
> >er...@edj.net
> >www.edj.net
>
> Picking his nose Erik - he was 18 yrs old !
> There's a career to be had in spotting Hutto's contradictions and
> blatant lies.
>
> Alison.
>
> ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
> http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
Hutto
On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Kay wrote:
> Well, Mr. Dr. Orthopedic Surgeon told her that she couldn't
> make payment, not even giving him post-dated checks because he "had a bad
> experience with that - the patient died and he never got paid"
Technically, writing post-dated checks is illegal. It is in the same
category as fraud, even if BOTH parties agree that it's acceptible. This
MIGHT not be illegal in some places, but in general, to write a check for
an amount of money that you KNOW is not contained in the relevant account
is a crime. In some cases, even ACCIDENTALLY writing a bad check is
criminal, depending upon the purchase amount.
It would be a rare occasion for a BANK to honor such an agreement.
When the bank gets the check, the check gets processed, and the monies are
then either transferred, or the check gets rejected. The only case I've
ever seen where action was not taken was when a check was OLD, as in a
couple of years old with a stamp that read 'void after 90 days'.
Post-dating is a 'gentleman's agreement' at best and would be rejected
outright by a smart business person. The above doctor probably DID learn
the hard way why it's a bad idea. Whether a 'customer' dies or leaves
town, if all you have is some bad checks, you aren't going to get paid,
and what's worse, you're going to get FINED by the bank for sending in
someone ELSE's bad checks!
> Just one of
> millions of medical horror stories here.
Millions? Horror story? It sounds like the person got the short end of the
stick, but it isn't the doctor's fault, nor is it the system's fault. The
woman could not pay for the service she sought. That does not qualify as a
'horror story'. If you waltz on into Burger King with a nickel, you can't
expect to buy a Whopper. They have a product that costs a certain amount
of money. So do we as artists...So do doctors and lawyers. If the woman
wanted *free* (A.A.Raimes-style sarcasm) or cheaper service, she could opt
to go to a clinic or some place less expensive. Sounds like she went to
see a specialist.
It could also be the fault of her insurance company, if she was insured.
They could classify her need as "non-vital" or "cosmetic in nature" and
therefore not extend her coverage. INSURANCE - Now, THERE is a worthy
scape-goat. If ANYTHING needs fixing, it's our national insurance system.
Don't get me wrong, either. I do not defend too much of the medical
system. Certain things strike me as odd. For example, last year about this
time I was awakened at 2:00 a.m. with the worst pain I had ever felt in my
entire life. (Alison Raimes can start giggling to herself at this point :)
) KIDNEY STONES! Argh! Holy cow, I thought I was gonna die...I had no idea
what was going on...I was ushered to the emergency room by family members
whom I'd called because I couldn't drive...pause...
We all know how expensive ER visits are, right?
Resume...So I get there, and I'm nearly barfing from the pain, and they
shoot me up with something that makes me feel warm, drunk and
nasty...slurs my speech, makes the floor feel wobbly...I keep trying to
get up...It makes me barf and talk trash at the intern...I have
spectators...Worse still, it doesn't do squat for the pain. Another doctor
comes in, makes me lie back down, shoots me up again, and the next thing I
know I'm in bed, miles away, and it's the next day at 11:30 a.m.
Consciously, I was in the ER maybe 30 or 40 minutes tops.
I wake up, go to the hospital again for IVDye and xray. That takes 3.5
HOURS. They track the stones, 3 of them. Etc etc.
A couple of weeks later, I get the bills.
ER bill - 2 injections of Demoral (sp?) - 480.00 and change!!! WHAT!?
Radiology Bill - Xrays, blood dyes, etc for 3.5 hours - 85.00. Hmm? Eh?
Something was WAY off. But, when I think back on it, those shots were
worth tons of money. I could have spent the rest of the night in severe
pain, and without official diagnosis severe fear as well. Instead, they
pretty much put me out of my misery for 10 hours, which was, I must say,
the worst part of the pain...plus they hooked me up with a prescription
for codiene...that can't hurt! :) The ER bill, while laughably extreme,
was for the most part worth it due to the extreme comfort I was provided.
My insurance?
Oh, 500.00 deductible! ARGH! Something told me my bill would have been
380.00 and change if my deductible had been 400.00.
The medical system is made evil by the insurance industry...I think if big
insurance was better regulated, we'd have a much more 'honest' or at least
a much less despicable medical system. Here I am promoting government
regulation! How odd! Normally, I'd shun the idea, but certain things need
to be controlled, or they'll go haywire.
On the other hand - Things being regulated is not the same as things being
taken care of by the federal gov. Free Enterprise promotes competition,
and competition promotes 'survival of the fittest' corporate mentalities,
and what does that give us? Progress! Advancement! Superior technology!
Evolution is now dependent upon the corporation. Isn't that spooky? :) The
governments of the world are far less reliable and efficient than
the corporations they govern. Soon, even more than now, the corporations
will regulate government.
Er...anyway...This is too much futurism before the first cup of coffee.
Hutto
Alison A Raimes
Hutto: you must get over this hankering, it is paramount to incest.
>
>Fire them. They are no good.
Should I ? I would feel bad because she is an artist who makes a living
doing this. You know I was thinking, with your skills you could work
anywhere in the world couldn't you ? You could even hang onto your
existing clients (I only just fired my first web designer who lived in
Florida). Wouldn't that be an ideal way of moving to another city ?
Seems a damn sight better than being a fry cook.
>Ah...even the graphics I just created last week? Which ones are they? Oh,
>all of them.
No, no. I just took a look and saw you had been working on it. Much
better, though I miss the old photo ... still the green lips suit you on
the new one.
>I'll send you a wall-sized print.
Would you do that ?? I don't care what anyone says - you aren't all bad.
>I don't recall advertising any paintings here lately...Must have been the
>other me.
Must have been the one that wrote that post too then (I dug it up off
dejanews - it only took a minute or two even though it was written a
couple of years ago - you ought to consider suing you know)
Seriously, why don't you show your work ? I mean you are so convincing
about how good they are I can't imagine why you would withhold the
experience from us. That's not very generous you know ?
Kiss (as per Erik's request)
Alison A Raimes
<scarl...@theriver.com> writes
>
>Great post, Erik! I have a friend whose knee quit working and won't
>straighten out. 5 months now. She went to an orthopedic surgeon (referral)
>who told her she needs surgery to straighten it out. She has no insurance
>though her husband works for the U.S. Forestry Dept. (they cut his benefits
>and pay rate). Well, Mr. Dr. Orthopedic Surgeon told her that she couldn't
>make payment, not even giving him post-dated checks because he "had a bad
>experience with that - the patient died and he never got paid" Just one of
>millions of medical horror stories here.
>
>Kay
This is probably the main reason I decided not to take up permanent
residency in the States, even though I have the paperwork to do so. Four
years ago I also had a very similar emergency operation to Hutto - a
burst abscess in the bowel (roll on the floor laughing now Hut) which is
still a recurring major problem. I was rushed into hospital and operated
on within a couple of hours and recovered in a room to myself - all the
national health (it may have helped being the sister of one of England's
top surgeons of course). Medical Insurance won't cover on going health
problems and there is simply no way I could risk staying away from
Britain.
We do have private medical care here you know folks - BUPA and PPP and
most big companies include this in their pay deals. However, it isn't
the well of that we should be considering here - its the folks who
simply can't afford to cloth their children, no matter paying for health
care too. No society has the right to refuse to take care of their sick.
Alison A Raimes
<emat...@tomatoweb.com> writes
>A friend of mine had a few days off the same time as his wife, so they decided
>on
>a whirlwind visit to Art Galleries in London and Paris. After a few busy days
>looking in London, they were on their way to Paris. However, while rushing to
>the train at Victoria Station, my friend, luggage in hand, stepped on a
>newspaper
>lying in the marble floor, and it was ass over teakettle and he landed on his
>knee, shattering his kneecap.
He didn't sue, Erik ??
Alison A Raimes
writes
>I was only 19 then. Nothing wrong with being young!
>I miss those days when a week was actually a long time...
>you could accomplish a lot and still have time for nose picking.
Nothing at all ... in fact I envy dear Hutto for his time warp (see how
I try to be like him so ?)
>
>Now if the two of you would just kiss and make up...
>there is no point in perpetually tossing venom back and forth.
>
Erik ! that's not fair. I love Hutto dearly and although he is in
denial, soon he will also realise that he adores me too. You see he
hankers after the mother figure in me and longs to bury his head in my
bosom. He sees Mani as his father figure also, and when I gave Mani his
virtual blow job he wished, oh how he wished he could be him, if only
for that instance. The thought of Hutto in agony at 2am in the morning
makes me want to fly over and take him in my arms and cradle him until
he gets better. You see, under those circumstance I could never give
Hutto a blow job and he must, above all else, get over it.
Alison
ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
Hutto
On Thu, 1 Jul 1999, Alison A Raimes wrote:
> Hutto: you must get over this hankering, it is paramount to incest.
Oh, and I suppose incest is BAD all of a sudden?
> Should I ?
Probably not. Expect more from them, though. :)
> You know I was thinking, with your skills you could work
> anywhere in the world couldn't you ? You could even hang onto your
> existing clients (I only just fired my first web designer who lived in
> Florida). Wouldn't that be an ideal way of moving to another city ?
The problem is finding clients who don't want to meet with you in person.
The information age is a sham...no one takes advantage of technology when
it's REALLY necessary :)
> Seems a damn sight better than being a fry cook.
Actually, I would like to be a fry-cook. I wouldn't have to do
other people's crappy designs, I wouldn't have to wear a tie, and I could
spit in the food of people who ticked me off. I've been thinking lately
about what DFox etc said about getting jobs you don't care about...I think
there must be something to that. Lot less stress, too.
> No, no. I just took a look and saw you had been working on it. Much
> better, though I miss the old photo ... still the green lips suit you on
> the new one.
Hehe. I call that one "Look what these here Photoshop tools do, in
repose". It was created after numerous requests that I put up a
computer-enhanced image of myself to "exhibit my abilities". Apparently, a
levee drainage system superimposed into my face wasn't enhanced enough.
Mainly, I wanted to avoid being easily identified in case anybody I've
P.O.ed decides to come stalking.
> >I'll send you a wall-sized print.
> Would you do that ?? I don't care what anyone says - you aren't all bad.
Who says that I'm all bad? :) Er, if you send me the money for the print
and the shipping, I'll send it :) Hehe. It would at least make a good dart
board, or graffitti surface.
> Must have been the one that wrote that post too then (I dug it up off
> dejanews - it only took a minute or two even though it was written a
> couple of years ago - you ought to consider suing you know)
Suing who? For what?
> Seriously, why don't you show your work ? I mean you are so convincing
> about how good they are I can't imagine why you would withhold the
> experience from us. That's not very generous you know ?
I doubt I have convinced anyone :) If I had, I wouldn't catch half as
much grief.
I'm saving my pennies for a domain. I'll have some new work up then. I
really haven't even been painting in the last few months :(. All my stuff
is old and I'm tired of looking at it...So I took it off my site. I took
just about everything off the site...which is why it's now so blank.
> Kiss (as per Erik's request)
Being cordial sucks. Hmm.
Does this mean I have to stop baiting you all the time?
Hutto
Hutto
On Thu, 1 Jul 1999, Alison A Raimes wrote:
> Nothing at all ... in fact I envy dear Hutto for his time warp
Time warp?
> (see how I try to be like him so ?)
I have that Michael Jordan effect on people.
> I love Hutto dearly and although he is in
> denial, soon he will also realise that he adores me too.
If I had 1,000,000.00 for every woman who has said this to me...I'd be a
millionaire.
> You see he
> hankers after the mother figure in me and longs to bury his head in my
> bosom.
"Hanker" is a choice term. HANKER! As long as it's acceptible to employ a
surrogate mother, I have no problem with this.
> He sees Mani as his father figure also, and when I gave Mani his
> virtual blow job he wished, oh how he wished he could be him, if only
> for that instance.
Er.
> The thought of Hutto in agony at 2am in the morning
(as opposed to 2am in the evening)
> makes me want to fly over and take him in my arms and cradle him until
> he gets better.
Er.
See...I knew you'd get a kick out of my having kidney stones.
> You see, under those circumstance I could never give
> Hutto a blow job and he must, above all else, get over it.
Other circumstances come into play, as well. I'm...um...allergic to
British saliva...I'm not that kind of guy...Never on the
1st through 398th date...I have to wash my hair - in china - for three
years...
Actually, you know, I like older women. 40 is prime woman...sexual
peak...all that good stuff...Older women don't seem to play the stupid
games the women my age tend to like to play...except for the really
neurotic ones...hmm...
Hutto
Marilyn
some kind of transatlantic affair here?
Marilyn
Marilyn
Canada is a funny country.
How much is a pack of cigarettes: $8.00
How much is open-heart surgery: $8.00
The basic question is when did healing people
become a (highly) profitable business?
The conservative Americans will say
we pay for it out of our taxes,
but they pay for it out of their private insurance.
They will also say that the very poor are covered in the US.
Medicare helps the working poor (the majority of the population).
Keep well.
Marilyn
Alison A Raimes
>Are you two "kids in the schoolyard" having
>some kind of transatlantic affair here?
>
>Marilyn
You know what they say: Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen.
Alison
ali...@raimes.demon.co.uk
http://www.raimes.demon.co.uk
Cable Street Open Studios #324, Limehouse, London E1
Friday 2nd July 6-9pm
Sat/Sun 3/4th July 12-6pm
burnin...@my-deja.com
Quite true.
> How much is a pack of cigarettes: $8.00
> How much is open-heart surgery: $8.00
Assuming you live long enough to get to the top of the queue
to actually see a doctor.
>
> The basic question is when did healing people
> become a (highly) profitable business?
Ummmm..... for hundreds of years now? Except for places
like Canada where it's been "socialized" -- subsequent to
which, Canadian doctors moved to the US. Many taking their
patience [sic] with them :P
>
> The conservative Americans will say
> we pay for it out of our taxes,
So do liberal Americans. The reason for that is that it's a
true statement.
> but they pay for it out of their private insurance.
For which we *PAY*.
> They will also say that the very poor are covered in the US.
Again, it's a true statement.
> Medicare helps the working poor (the majority of the population).
Odd.... when did the "majority of the population" of the US become
"working poor"?
You must have doubled-up on your goofy pills this morning...
If a majority of the US is working poor, I wonder what that makes
the majority in Canada? :P
Kay
Hutto wrote in message ...
(snip)
:> Just one of
:> millions of medical horror stories here.
:
:Millions? Horror story? It sounds like the person got the short end of the
:stick, but it isn't the doctor's fault, nor is it the system's fault. The
:woman could not pay for the service she sought. That does not qualify as a
:'horror story'.
If you cannot obtain a *service* in the richest country in the world which
is provided for free in less affluent countries, then it is, indeed, a
horror story. How would you have liked your kidney stones to be left
untreated due to lack of money?
If you waltz on into Burger King with a nickel, you can't
:expect to buy a Whopper.
One can expect to fill their hunger with an affordable price.
They have a product that costs a certain amount
:of money. So do we as artists...
Artists are commonly *expected* to do art for free, surely you know that by
now?
So do doctors and lawyers.
HA! I wish they would donate as much as artists, or be expected to.
If the woman
:wanted *free* (A.A.Raimes-style sarcasm) or cheaper service, she could opt
:to go to a clinic or some place less expensive.
We live in Arizona. We rank 49 out of 50 for the poorest healthcare
services (Mississippi is #50). There are no clinics.
Sounds like she went to
:see a specialist.
GP's don't do surgery. They refer to specialists. Not the patients choice.
You can't decide "My GP will remove my appendix for $1,000 and the surgeon
will charge $20,000, so I'll choose the GP"
:It could also be the fault of her insurance company,
No insurance company. I am not talking about the wealthy or those with good
medical coverage, nor am I talking about Welfare families. I am talking
about the largest newly growing class in the US which is the
employed/uninsured. New phenomenom here is to hire someone for a full-time
position but not a 40 hour week (say 36 hours) and thereby not being
responsible for providing full-time benefits or, in many cases, any
benefits.
if she was insured.
:They could classify her need as "non-vital" or "cosmetic in nature" and
:therefore not extend her coverage.
What in the world are you talking about?
INSURANCE - Now, THERE is a worthy
:scape-goat. If ANYTHING needs fixing, it's our national insurance system.
We don't actually have one!
:Don't get me wrong, either. I do not defend too much of the medical
:system.
You most certainly did. You are a study in contridictions...
(snip Kidney stones):
:My insurance?
:Oh, 500.00 deductible! ARGH! Something told me my bill would have been
:380.00 and change if my deductible had been 400.00.
:
:The medical system is made evil by the insurance industry...I think if big
:insurance was better regulated, we'd have a much more 'honest' or at least
:a much less despicable medical system. Here I am promoting government
:regulation! How odd! Normally, I'd shun the idea, but certain things need
:to be controlled, or they'll go haywire.
:
:On the other hand - Things being regulated is not the same as things being
:taken care of by the federal gov. Free Enterprise promotes competition,
:and competition promotes 'survival of the fittest' corporate mentalities,
:and what does that give us? Progress! Advancement! Superior technology!
:Evolution is now dependent upon the corporation. Isn't that spooky? :) The
:governments of the world are far less reliable and efficient than
:the corporations they govern. Soon, even more than now, the corporations
:will regulate government.
:
:Er...anyway...This is too much futurism before the first cup of coffee.
:
:Hutto
Make up your mind before you argue for and against in the same post!
Kay
:
Hutto
On Thu, 1 Jul 1999, Kay wrote:
> If you cannot obtain a *service* in the richest country in the world which
> is provided for free in less affluent countries, then it is, indeed, a
> horror story.
It's one of the richest countries, but that doesn't mean everyone in it is
loaded. If you want substandard medical services just because they're
supposedly free, by all means catch a plane and go get it. The red cross
doles out free health care in third world nations...You think that's a
better system, too?
> How would you have liked your kidney stones to be left
> untreated due to lack of money?
Well, that's why I have health insurance, isn't it? Health insurance is
what you get when you don't have the money to pay for emergency health
care needs...The premiums are way cheaper than the care you can get with
it.
> If you waltz on into Burger King with a nickel, you can't
> :expect to buy a Whopper.
>
> One can expect to fill their hunger with an affordable price.
Well, if all you have is a nickel, you really can't afford a Whopper.
Should BK lower their prices to feed those with only nickels, or expect
the nickel-bearers to find their own way to feed themselves?
> They have a product that costs a certain amount
> :of money. So do we as artists...
>
> Artists are commonly *expected* to do art for free, surely you know that by
> now?
And because of this, health care should be provided by the government?
That makes a lot of sense.
> HA! I wish they would donate as much as artists, or be expected to.
I don't donate jack. My time and my work is worth money. I don't CARE what
people expect...If a person wants my painting, but only has five bucks,
what am I supposed to do, sell it to them because they're poor, but really
really WANT or NEED the picture?
> We live in Arizona. We rank 49 out of 50 for the poorest healthcare
> services (Mississippi is #50). There are no clinics.
Wow. 49 and you have no clinics. We have clinics here in #50. "Poorest
Healthcare Services" does not mean cots and tents in the desert. In this
country it means pseudo-obsolete (a couple of years old) medical
equipment...etc.
> GP's don't do surgery. They refer to specialists. Not the patients choice.
> You can't decide "My GP will remove my appendix for $1,000 and the surgeon
> will charge $20,000, so I'll choose the GP"
That's true, but you also do not have to consult the most expensive
private surgeon in town when a surgeon at the hospital is just as
competent.
> No insurance company. I am not talking about the wealthy or those with good
> medical coverage, nor am I talking about Welfare families.
Medical insurance isn't all that hard to pay for. If there isn't much
money, and health care is a priority, what do you do? You make the
insurance premium a high priority and you make sure you can keep it paid.
> I am talking
> about the largest newly growing class in the US which is the
> employed/uninsured.
I am self-employed and I maintain my own private health insurance. Just
because the policy isn't part of a benefits package doesn't mean it's
impossible to get. I'm not making a million bucks over here, either.
> New phenomenom here is to hire someone for a full-time
> position but not a 40 hour week (say 36 hours) and thereby not being
> responsible for providing full-time benefits or, in many cases, any
> benefits.
That's not new. It's actually a good way to save money (as a company).
Just doing a job for a company doesn't REALLY entitle you to be given
health care, etc. It's a nicety granted by companies to entice you to work
there, or to keep themselves competitive with other firms.
> :They could classify her need as "non-vital" or "cosmetic in nature" and
> :therefore not extend her coverage.
>
> What in the world are you talking about?
You haven't heard about Insurance Companies pulling that trick? I had a
friend once who had breast implants (silicone). They ruptured, and as a
result her life was threatened by the silicone being in her
system...Surgury was necessary to keep her from becoming completely
debilitated...they claimed that her surgury was cosmetic, non-vital, and
therefore not elligible for coverage under her policy.
> We don't actually have one!
System - Read as "industry"
> :Don't get me wrong, either. I do not defend too much of the medical
> :system.
>
> You most certainly did. You are a study in contridictions...
No I'm not. I DID defend it, in PART, but just enough to state that it
needs to stay PRIVATE.
> Make up your mind before you argue for and against in the same post!
I made up my mind to make the remarks I had to make. I'm not trying to
convince anyone of anything...Why am I not free to support what works
while criticizing what doesn't?
Hutto
Erik A. Mattila
Kay wrote:
> Hutto wrote in message ...
> (snip)
> :> Just one of
> :> millions of medical horror stories here.
> :
> :Millions? Horror story? It sounds like the person got the short end of the
> :stick, but it isn't the doctor's fault, nor is it the system's fault. The
> :woman could not pay for the service she sought. That does not qualify as a
> :'horror story'.
>
> If you cannot obtain a *service* in the richest country in the world which
> is provided for free in less affluent countries, then it is, indeed, a
> horror story. How would you have liked your kidney stones to be left
> untreated due to lack of money?
>
> If you waltz on into Burger King with a nickel, you can't
> :expect to buy a Whopper.
>
> One can expect to fill their hunger with an affordable price.
>
> They have a product that costs a certain amount
> :of money. So do we as artists...
>
> Artists are commonly *expected* to do art for free, surely you know that by
> now?
>
> So do doctors and lawyers.
>
> HA! I wish they would donate as much as artists, or be expected to.
>
> If the woman
> :wanted *free* (A.A.Raimes-style sarcasm) or cheaper service, she could opt
> :to go to a clinic or some place less expensive.
>
> We live in Arizona. We rank 49 out of 50 for the poorest healthcare
> services (Mississippi is #50). There are no clinics.
>
> Sounds like she went to
> :see a specialist.
>
> GP's don't do surgery. They refer to specialists. Not the patients choice.
> You can't decide "My GP will remove my appendix for $1,000 and the surgeon
> will charge $20,000, so I'll choose the GP"
>
> :It could also be the fault of her insurance company,
>
> No insurance company. I am not talking about the wealthy or those with good
> medical coverage, nor am I talking about Welfare families. I am talking
> about the largest newly growing class in the US which is the
> employed/uninsured. New phenomenom here is to hire someone for a full-time
> position but not a 40 hour week (say 36 hours) and thereby not being
> responsible for providing full-time benefits or, in many cases, any
> benefits.
>
> if she was insured.
> :They could classify her need as "non-vital" or "cosmetic in nature" and
> :therefore not extend her coverage.
>
> What in the world are you talking about?
>
> INSURANCE - Now, THERE is a worthy
> :scape-goat. If ANYTHING needs fixing, it's our national insurance system.
>
> We don't actually have one!
>
> :Don't get me wrong, either. I do not defend too much of the medical
> :system.
>
> You most certainly did. You are a study in contridictions...
I have to disagree with you, Kay. Hutto was defending the right to make
money. That's why I wanted to include that part about the American Mentality
in my earlier post. On a knee-jerk gut level, we Americans respect the rich
more than we respect the poor. The rich have more credibility. When we meet a
doctor who happes to have taken the Oath of Hippocrates at face value, and
earns little money from her/his practice, they become suspect. "They must be
nut cases" we secretly think.
Now Hutto is submitting the Insurance Industry as the culpret. I agree to a
small extent -- but I emphasize "small". Insurance is undoubtedly a factor.
But it's not particularly helpful to regard medical malpractice suits as fluff,
either. One of the great concerns of the the Medical Industry is alcoholosim
among M.D. It is not uncommon for a surgeon to be stoned at work. Hospital
get bound up in their own incredible bureaucraciies, and life threatening
mistakes are commonly made. Hospitals regularly have labor disputes, which
results in disgruntled workers, which results in inefficiency and errors.
I think you have to look at the medical indusrty in the US from the top down to
see where the outlandish costs are coming from. Have you ever priced
prosthetic devices, for example. A simple thing like a gas pedal for a car
that can be operated with one's left foot, if purchased from a medical
supplier, will cost about two thousand percent over the 'market price" (which
is, for example, going to a local machine shop and having one made to fit your
custom design.) But the reason these thing are so expensive is because,
collectively, the medical industry, with insurance companies and government
agencies, have agreed to pay this much for them. The problem with this is
those increasing numbers of Americans who are outside helthcare systematics,
can't afford these prices.
Increasing numbers, yes. It is well know that industries and institutions are
now in a trend to hire temporaries and contractual labor, without fringe
benefits, which leaves those hired under these policies without access to any
sort of helth care, including medicaid and other government programs. This is
because employers either don't want to or can't shoulder these extravagant
medical expenses in todays economy. This is a common practice in the teaching
profession now -- it is very difficult to find a tenure track or full time
appointment, and the opportunities are increasing as the educational budget
sinks further into the red.
Look at the price of drugs. I had a veteranarian friend once who told me his
animal drugs, such as teryomyacin and pennicillan, which are very cheap on the
veteranary market, come out of the same vat as the human counterpart -- but if
it is for people the price is multiplied by 50 or so. That is why I can go
down to Mexicali and purchase medication for my Mother in Law at about a
twentieth the cost if I purchased the exact same prescription two miles north.
And these are prescriptions that her life depends on, such as Insulin, yet
Medicare, for which she qualifies, has found some way to worm out of paying
for.
And yet we would die to protect the right of the medical industry to fleece
us. Wierd, really.
I was sad to learn, however, that all the Canadian doctors have moved to the
US. I guess medicine in Canada now is handled by automobile mechanics.
Erik Mattila
>
>
> (snip Kidney stones):
> :My insurance?
> :Oh, 500.00 deductible! ARGH! Something told me my bill would have been
> :380.00 and change if my deductible had been 400.00.
> :
> :The medical system is made evil by the insurance industry...I think if big
> :insurance was better regulated, we'd have a much more 'honest' or at least
> :a much less despicable medical system. Here I am promoting government
> :regulation! How odd! Normally, I'd shun the idea, but certain things need
> :to be controlled, or they'll go haywire.
> :
> :On the other hand - Things being regulated is not the same as things being
> :taken care of by the federal gov. Free Enterprise promotes competition,
> :and competition promotes 'survival of the fittest' corporate mentalities,
> :and what does that give us? Progress! Advancement! Superior technology!
> :Evolution is now dependent upon the corporation. Isn't that spooky? :) The
> :governments of the world are far less reliable and efficient than
> :the corporations they govern. Soon, even more than now, the corporations
> :will regulate government.
> :
> :Er...anyway...This is too much futurism before the first cup of coffee.
> :
> :Hutto
>
> Make up your mind before you argue for and against in the same post!
> Kay
> :
Kay
(snipping)
:
:I have to disagree with you, Kay. Hutto was defending the right to make
:money. That's why I wanted to include that part about the American
Mentality
:in my earlier post. On a knee-jerk gut level, we Americans respect the
rich
:more than we respect the poor. The rich have more credibility. When we
meet a
:doctor who happes to have taken the Oath of Hippocrates at face value, and
:earns little money from her/his practice, they become suspect. "They must
be
:nut cases" we secretly think.
:
:Now Hutto is submitting the Insurance Industry as the culpret.
But also as the savior. He is confused. But the insurance industry does
increase costs according to a documentary I saw awhile back which showed the
expenses incurred by Canada's billing paperwork in comparison to the U.S.
billing expenses. I was amazed to look at their offices. The amount of
paperwork in Canada is minimal and yes, they do have to wait a longer time
for certain procedures, such as MRI and CAT scans which are much too common
here. If my toe itches they send me off for an MRI because my insurance
will pay for it. I went to see an (whatever they are called) ear specialist
because my ear wouldn't pop (silly sounding disease) and I am not kidding -
he had 4 females in the office with us. I thought they were his chorus line
and were going to break into song! We didn't see eye to ear and I went to
another ear specialist who was able to torture me without the assistance of
a single assistant. I think, in my state, these assistants are required by
law to be blonde :-) The HMO physicians are allowed around 15 minutes per
patient. I recently read that they were trying to become unionized because,
in essence, the insurance companies are the *bosses* of the doctors and
interfere as well as dictate what type of care, how long, what type of
medications to prescibe, etc. to the physicians. This isn't really working
anymore.
: I agree to a
:small extent -- but I emphasize "small". Insurance is undoubtedly a
factor.
:But it's not particularly helpful to regard medical malpractice suits as
fluff,
:either.
Frivolous lawsuits. Valid lawsuits. What's the answer? Sickening. I saw
"Devil's Advocate" and my short sweetie, Al Picino said "there are more
students in law school than there are practicing in the entire US right now"
(that little devil!)
: One of the great concerns of the the Medical Industry is alcoholosim
:among M.D. It is not uncommon for a surgeon to be stoned at work.
Hospital
:get bound up in their own incredible bureaucraciies, and life threatening
:mistakes are commonly made.
Now, Erik, let's not call them drunks and leave out the junkie doctors
addicted to the drugs they write themselves!
: Hospitals regularly have labor disputes, which
:results in disgruntled workers, which results in inefficiency and errors.
:I think you have to look at the medical indusrty in the US from the top
down to
:see where the outlandish costs are coming from. Have you ever priced
:prosthetic devices, for example. A simple thing like a gas pedal for a car
:that can be operated with one's left foot, if purchased from a medical
:supplier, will cost about two thousand percent over the 'market price"
(which
:is, for example, going to a local machine shop and having one made to fit
your
:custom design.) But the reason these thing are so expensive is because,
:collectively, the medical industry, with insurance companies and government
:agencies, have agreed to pay this much for them. The problem with this is
:those increasing numbers of Americans who are outside helthcare
systematics,
:can't afford these prices.
I see the writing on the wall that the numbers outside healthcare systems
are steadily increasing which is why we should be concerned now.
:Increasing numbers, yes. It is well know that industries and institutions
are
:now in a trend to hire temporaries and contractual labor, without fringe
:benefits, which leaves those hired under these policies without access to
any
:sort of helth care, including medicaid and other government programs. This
is
:because employers either don't want to or can't shoulder these extravagant
:medical expenses in todays economy. This is a common practice in the
teaching
:profession now -- it is very difficult to find a tenure track or full time
:appointment, and the opportunities are increasing as the educational budget
:sinks further into the red.
Ah, but the tuition sure increases consistently, doesn't it?
:Look at the price of drugs. I had a veteranarian friend once who told me
his
:animal drugs, such as teryomyacin and pennicillan, which are very cheap on
the
:veteranary market, come out of the same vat as the human counterpart -- but
if
:it is for people the price is multiplied by 50 or so. That is why I can go
:down to Mexicali and purchase medication for my Mother in Law at about a
:twentieth the cost if I purchased the exact same prescription two miles
north.
:And these are prescriptions that her life depends on, such as Insulin, yet
:Medicare, for which she qualifies, has found some way to worm out of paying
:for.
I go to Nogales. Clariton (for alergies) is $80 US, in Mexico, a bit over
$3. Other prescriptions are likewise priced astronomically lower. Dentistry
is a great deal there and not often covered by insurance in the US as well.
:And yet we would die to protect the right of the medical industry to fleece
:us. Wierd, really.
Let me take a wild guess - Conservatives for it, Liberals against it?
:I was sad to learn, however, that all the Canadian doctors have moved to
the
:US. I guess medicine in Canada now is handled by automobile mechanics.
It makes sense because they don't know how to read or write and thereby
eliminate the paperwork, donchano?
Kay
:Erik Mattila
~Artist~
Kay
hours at my home e-mail. Please remove me from your addresses. I have no
interest in your PAIN or whatever you are involved in at the moment and you
are becoming a nuisance (more than usual).
Kay
scarl...@theriver.com
~Artist~ wrote in message <377DAF...@att.net>...
:Off topic please move on.
burnin...@my-deja.com
Nicholas Berry
news:7ldps4$n33$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <GKIPXTAS...@raimes.demon.co.uk>,
> Alison A Raimes <ali...@address.in.signature> wrote:
>
> (...)
>
> >
> > The British will only know how lucky they have been all these years
> when
> > this system is gone.
>
> Do you refer to the ones paying the taxes to support the subsidy
> or to the people collecting the subsidy?
>
> The people paying for the subsidy will probably be quite happy when
> it's gone.
>
Not nessesarily because the purpose of a benefits system and "Free" health
care and indeed to get back to the point "Free" education is the benefit the
people who pay for it as well has the recipients, in other words to be
advantagious to the whole of society in a similar way that private insurance
may benefit you if you have need to use it. Of course the beauty of a
benefits system is that unlike paying insurance where you pay an insurance
company and a proportion of this money is creamed off in profits for the
proprietors and sharholders of the company people who one wouldn't think of
as needy. In a government controled benefit system the money tends in the
main to go to those who need it. Of course if you provide benefits you also
have an effective way of controling and monotoring the poor thus minimising
crime because you know that they will be in the dole office to sign that bit
of paper every two weeks. You can also control the way they work in the way
you means test eligability for benefits and stop people husling on street
corners undermining more legitimate busnesses.
Although it is often true that people will vote for governments who offer
lower taxes and promise to be tough on the unemployed "Sroungers". I would
say that all taxpayers in the UK reap benefits from having a benefit system
because it provids stability and a means for government to control.
However saying that as an artist and a recipient of benefits I often find
the way that benefits are used to control what one can do and the way you
can work if you have to rely on them can be counterproductive. I think where
benefit rules and conditions are too strict they are a bad thing, because
far from providing insentives to work and indeed presenting conditions
favourable to free enterprise they can stiffle grass root enterprise and
force people who are unsuitable for emplyment as employees because they are
self-motivated individuals and find it mentally difficult to work for an
employer even if they can actually find such work with a Fine Art Degree,
into a kind of hopeless catch 22 - poverty trap - limbo which ultimatly can
induce very real mental illness. Wherase in a society such as the US with a
more free and open economy the infrastructure for such people to make a
living by their own means is in place.
I sometimes think the way things are run in the UK is almost like living in
a Police state if you are on benefits and some things such as for example
the way the DSS treat couples for benefit and discriminate between "strait"
and "Gay"couples and the kind of mental torcher offered to the Unemployed
which is based on the same kinds of pshological torcher tactics albeit more
subtle as used in Auswitz. When it comes down to it is incredibly draconian
to the point where one can only view such things with incredulity in a
society which is supposed to be civilized. It's quite easy to get quite
Paranoid about it, Though I dare say a quick blast of ECT which I understand
is still available on the National health (although it is seen as an
infringement of Human rights in the US and is lllegal) should do the trick.
I knew I shouldn't have watched "One flew Over The Cukoo's Nest" ;-)
Nick
--
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
ni...@artberry.demon.co.uk
http://www.artberry.demon.co.uk/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Jewel
ni...@artberry.demon.co.uk says...
>I knew I shouldn't have watched "One flew Over The Cukoo's Nest" ;-)
Have you read Orwell too. "1984" comes to mind...
Leigh Kimmel
"Nicholas Berry" <ni...@artberry.demon.co.uk> writes:
> I think where
> benefit rules and conditions are too strict they are a bad thing, because
> far from providing insentives to work and indeed presenting conditions
> favourable to free enterprise they can stiffle grass root enterprise and
> force people who are unsuitable for emplyment as employees because they are
> self-motivated individuals and find it mentally difficult to work for an
> employer even if they can actually find such work with a Fine Art Degree,
> into a kind of hopeless catch 22 - poverty trap - limbo which ultimatly can
> induce very real mental illness. Wherase in a society such as the US with a
> more free and open economy the infrastructure for such people to make a
> living by their own means is in place.
It can be really tough for people who are hard-working but just not
suited for working as an employee. I've had a lot of trouble with
employers because I have very little patience with mickey-mouse rules
that are more about power/control issues than about getting stuff done.
I don't bow and scrape, which has led to some bosses labeling me
"insubordinate," and I regard busywork as something to be blown off in
favor of writing or art if I can (why should I let the boss waste my
time with bullcrap -- it's not like I'm going to be sitting around idle
and getting in trouble, I'm hard at work writing).
In the US, the trouble can often be making people realize that you
really are working when you're working for yourself and don't have the
apparatus of boss and timeclock to demarcate your work time off from
your other time. I don't know how many times I've been hard at work on
my art or writing and had someone come along and tell me to "get off
your lazy butt and make yourself useful." My parents are really bad
about this, to the point that I dread visiting them because I know that
I'll be called upon to drop what I'm doing and "help out" in everything
while my brothers get to sit around and watch TV or play video games as
much as they want. (I won't even comment on the sexism of this). This
is especially bad when you're hitting a bad time and the
commissions/sales aren't flowing in well.
Also, the US makes it difficult for people who aren't regular employees
by making the income tax situation much more complex, with lots of
additional pitfalls that can get you into serious trouble.
--
One terrified boy and the girl who would save him.
"Claws of Vengeance" on sale now
http://www.alexlit.com/ Alexandria Digital Literature
Leigh Kimmel -- writer, artist and historian
kim...@globaleyes.net
http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/lhkwebpage.html
Ask me how to order the new Sime~Gen novel!
Check out my bookstore http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/
Marilyn
The most important lesson you can teach your kids,
before they hit any kind of "educational system"
is a love of life which determines their capacity
for happiness. This is one of the most attractive
qualities in a person. It comes from early stimulation
of the infant's senses, showing it beauty, and adventure,
and fun, and love, and enjoyment.
Or, be good to your kids when they are small or they
will grow up and get even with you.
Marilyn
~Artist~
CH - Soilent Green
Mattison
~Artist~
Good 4 u M!
Mattison
Nicholas Berry
news:3r5h3.1098$X3.6...@typ32b.nn.bcandid.com...
Yes I think on this one there are big cultural simularities between the US
and the UK on this one. I think "Mickey Mouse" rules is a good way of
putting it to. I often find that in many ways society and the work place in
particular is imbued with all sorts of useless conventions and rules which
are often completly irrelevant and counter productive to getting the job
done, and at worst are technically illegal. For all the good intentions,
political correctness, legislation on equality equal opportunities etc the
workplace is largely anti-individual. For example how many Tranvestites
might one see in ones local multi national burger chain, I dare say a guy
who DONS an ALD dress to work would get the BIG boot faster than MAC one,
even if he got the job in the first place. Regardless of the fact that by
the letter the law protects his rights to dress as whatever gender he
pleases and even if they didn't sack him since the gender and sexuality game
is a good way to clean up in court, they sack people for far lessor fashion
"mis-demeanors" such as too many earings or green hair and generally people
sacked for such minor things have no legal come back whatsoever. My advice
to any one wishing to wear anything unusual to work would therfore be to
announce they are having a sex change first. Then there is at least a chance
one can get compensation ;-) Though I suppose one could just stick to Sun
Screen since we can all wear that. and hang out at Beauty spots and not get
get them in awkward places :.-|
>
> In the US, the trouble can often be making people realize that you
> really are working when you're working for yourself and don't have the
> apparatus of boss and timeclock to demarcate your work time off from
> your other time. I don't know how many times I've been hard at work on
> my art or writing and had someone come along and tell me to "get off
> your lazy butt and make yourself useful." My parents are really bad
> about this, to the point that I dread visiting them because I know that
> I'll be called upon to drop what I'm doing and "help out" in everything
> while my brothers get to sit around and watch TV or play video games as
> much as they want. (I won't even comment on the sexism of this). This
> is especially bad when you're hitting a bad time and the
> commissions/sales aren't flowing in well.
>
> Also, the US makes it difficult for people who aren't regular employees
> by making the income tax situation much more complex, with lots of
> additional pitfalls that can get you into serious trouble.
> --
Again there are similarities in Britain. When I first left art college I
used to work on my painting till 3 or 4 in the morning every day and would
put in a good 16 hours, but because I would often get up at 10 or 11 in the
morning people often thought I was extremely lazy or mad. I suppose the
problem is that all of us including artists to are largely educated to be
little more than robots. Some people can look beyond the programming most
people can't whether this is a result of art or arts education or a lack of
or is an innate disability/ability is perhaps debatable. However I often
find that society has problems with people who can think and interpret. This
is perhaps why there is the notion of the "Mad Artist" In the Old Soviet
Union they used to put artists in Lunatic Asylums as dissidents particularly
if they were particularly good ones. Of course our propaganda taught us how
terrible this was and was useful in showing how much better it is to live in
the West and be "Free". However at the end of the day the individual is only
Free to the degree he believes him or herself to be free, and capitalism and
things such as the Protestant work ethic provide their own prisons and
punishments for it's dissidents such as starvation, and all the things that
accompany poverty such as monetary eugenics and whilst the punishments may
be a natural and integral part of a laise fare capitalist system in which
politicians take a Pontius Pilot approach to accountability. Politicians and
those in power are just as guilty in a failure to govern as those in the Old
USSR. Since those given the responsibly to govern by democratic selection
are meant to govern and Ignorance and self absolution are no defence in law.
Nick
--
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
ni...@artberry.demon.co.uk
http://www.artberry.demon.co.uk/
"And we crashed the gates doing 98 and I said Let those truckers role!" Look
out Bill!
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Leigh Kimmel
"Nicholas Berry" <ni...@artberry.demon.co.uk> writes:
> When I first left art college I
> used to work on my painting till 3 or 4 in the morning every day and would
> put in a good 16 hours, but because I would often get up at 10 or 11 in the
> morning people often thought I was extremely lazy or mad.
Good god, but that sounds familiar. I'm a night-owl myself, and I've
taken a lot of flak from people who regard not being a morning person
as proof positive of moral failure. I had one boss who was a natural
morning person and believed everyone else was, and who literally
couldn't believe that I wasn't. As far as he was concerned, my
inability to wake up bright and alert every morning was the result of
simple laziness and lack of willpower, and if I'd just put my mind to
it, I could do it.
> I suppose the
> problem is that all of us including artists to are largely educated to be
> little more than robots. Some people can look beyond the programming most
> people can't whether this is a result of art or arts education or a lack of
> or is an innate disability/ability is perhaps debatable. However I often
> find that society has problems with people who can think and interpret. This
> is perhaps why there is the notion of the "Mad Artist" In the Old Soviet
> Union they used to put artists in Lunatic Asylums as dissidents particularly
> if they were particularly good ones.
Yes, there is a major portion of society which finds the thought of a
person who can think for him/herself downright threatening, and will do
everything in their power to crush and destroy such a person, whether
it be through ridicule or mockery or whatever. I remember many times
that people would respond to my points with put-downs or ad hominem
attacks simply to shut me up so that they didn't have to admit that I
might possibly have a valid point.