CMYK Palette
Niall
Sorry if this is a tired question, but....
I work in the print industry and am familiar
with the CMYK colour format
Are process colours available?
Are they very tricky to use?
Would it work with some other restricted favourites?
At my learning stage, am I better to stick with the
traditional colours, rather than using an unorthodox palette?
TIA
Niall
Roy L. Ballou
says...
>
>Hi all
>
>Sorry if this is a tired question, but....
>
>I work in the print industry and am familiar
>with the CMYK colour format
If you DO find a color combination that will
work as well as the process colors, let us
all know! I know of no good color combinations
that will accomplish what printing overlaying
does, but you can come close if you employ
ONLY glazing methods when painting so that
every layer, like printer's ink, is transparent.
Even with transparent watercolors, it's a
difficult proposition because watercolors do
not lend themselves to glazing techniques like
oils, acrylics and alkyd paints do.
The real problem with process colors, and
transparent painting mediums, is their usual
lack of permanency (lack of light fastness).
Niall
Thanks Dan
Niall
Dan Fox <danf...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20030129084915.231$W...@newsreader.com...
> "Niall" <aTAKEcaTHIS...@iol.ie> wrote:
>
> > I work in the print industry and am familiar
> > with the CMYK colour format
> >
> > Are process colours available?
> > Are they very tricky to use?
> > Would it work with some other restricted favourites?
> > At my learning stage, am I better to stick with the
> > traditional colours, rather than using an unorthodox palette?
>
> Hi, Niall - this is an easy one. Stick with traditional colors. Don't even
> *think* about CMYK. Different application entirely.
>
> --
> Dan
> http://www.danfoxart.com
>
> REMOVE 'NOSPAM' FROM MY EMAIL ADDRESS TO REPLY!
Tina Mammoser
If you do decide to give it a try I believe Golden does the process
colours in acrylics. (99% sure they do) I know an airbrush artist who
swears by CMYK and doesn't use anything else. (He does photorealistic
landscapes.)
I personally don't like the CMYK method but do like the magenta. :)
Tina.
--
********************
--Colorist expressionist contemporary landscapes direct from the
artist!--
HTTP://WWW.TINA-M.COM
mailto:ti...@tina-m.com
-----Limited editions and original prints from London artists!-----
HTTP://WWW.BRIGHTNEWART.COM
mailto:ti...@brightnewart.com
********************
Andrew D
<aTAKEcaTHIS...@iol.ie> wrote:
The CMYK palette is designed for mass production printing at the lowest
possible cost. The very restricted palette makes some colours impossible
to reproduce, especially strong, vibrant blues (Cyan and magenta simply
can't cope). That's why newer printing methods, even desktop colour
printers, use 6 or more colours. Also understsand that the black (K) is
often used as means of saving ink and reducing the total ink weight (eg:
100% K is far less ink than 100% C + 100% M + 100% Y. Refer to
explanations of GCR and UCR for more info)
As a printer you would also be familiar with the Pantone Matching System
which has around 13 "primaries" which are often *mixed* together to
produce specified colours. You would also know that this system delivers a
wider range of colours than can be reproduced using CMYK and this is why
PMS is usually specified for corporate logos and the like where accurate
colour is important.
Also consider that the CMYK printing process is based on transparency and
what is essentially pointillism - small dots printed side by side. The
colours are not actually mixed as is often (but not always) the case with
painting. The brightness in printing comes from the white of the paper and
the colour we "see" is due to optical mixing - ie: cyan dots and yellow
dots arranged closely together give an "appearance" of green.
If you intend to paint in a pointillist fashion then it's probably worth
experimenting with colours close to CMYK and adding a couple of other
colours as required when the base colours don't deliver the desired
effect.
The "standard" (now that's gonna be contentious) palette for oil painting
for example would be something like:
Cadmium Red, Alizarin Crimson, Ultramiarine Blue, Cerulean Blue, Lemon
Yellow and Cadmium Yellow Deep.
This gives a cool and warm version of each "primary" making the possible
range of mixed colours much wider. For example, a nice bright green can be
mixed from Lemon Yellow and Cerulean Blue but not from Cadmium Yellow and
Ultramarine Blue. You can't make a good purple with Cerulean Blue but
Ultramarine Blue is a good starting point.
Most oil painters will add a couple of "earth colours" and maybe a green
or two. Those who paint specific subjects, like floral stil lifes, will
often add colours that are close to their subject.
Andy D.
"I'm a great speller - but a hopless tpyist!"
Niall
I do a lot of colour and composition
practice on my illustration software
So, the thinking behind it was to see if
I could simulate the colours I liked on the pc
by using the cmyk formula in paint. The illustrtation
package I use makes up solid colours with the percentages
so I could (in theorey) mix to those percentages
with real paint.
Anyway Im happy enough that
it is probably not a great idea
Cheers
Niall
Andrew D <right@the_end.of.my_tether> wrote in message
news:right-30010...@i172-244.nv.iinet.net.au...
Roy L. Ballou
says...
>Anyway Im happy enough that
>it is probably not a great idea
I personally think it's a great idea,
but one that's hard to accomplish as
a painter. If you can find a good book
on the American artist Maxfield Parrish,
he was a "master" of glazing technique.
His working methods were arduous and
slow due to the need to allow his paintings
to dry thoroughly between coats of glaze,
and he didn't have the advantage of
fast-drying acrylics in his day.
So give acrylics a try - but be sure to use
plenty of acrylic varnish as your "medium"
to thin the tube (or jar) colors to the
proper glazing consistency/transparency.
Thinning with water will not give the
same result, although you will have to
use a little water to keep the paint
wet and workable on your palette.
Roy L. Ballou
says...
>> So give acrylics a try - but be sure to use
>> plenty of acrylic varnish as your "medium"
>> to thin the tube (or jar) colors to the
>> proper glazing consistency/transparency.
>
>I think you mean 'acrylic medium here.'
Thanks. I never fail to use more words
than needed. Maybe I've been reading
too many of Edward's voluminous posts!
OTOH, varnish and medium
are one and the same when discussing
acrylics. But it would have been much
more efficient to say, "use
plenty of acrylic medium" instead of
what I did say.
Tina Mammoser
> OTOH, varnish and medium
> are one and the same when discussing
> acrylics.
Not exactly. This week I was forced to use some liquitex acrylic varnish
because I ran out of medium and thought it would do. Unfortunately the varish
gets very sticky very quickly (whereas liquid matte medium doesn't - at least
not as quickly). Overbrushing did cause problems including clouding and
creating tiny tiny 'clumps' in the paint surface. Hey, even I didn't know it
would do this! So I'd recommend sticking with medium or even plain ol' pva glue
for students. I dont usually use the acrylic varnish and had the bottle around
as backup.
Roy L. Ballou
says...
>The site also includes information on acrylic paints and other
>materials, and is well worth a look.
This is what I deserve for speaking in generalizations.
GOLDEN also makes a variety of 'varnishes' and
you can find that information on their web site
as well. All of this does not change the fact
that acrylic is acrylic is acrylic. The largest
manufacturer of "rhoplex" is Rhom and Haas and
as far as I know that is the origin of most
acrylics used in the world today.
Rhoplex is sold to paint manufacturers who then
modify it to suit their particular market. It
used to be that one bought "acrylic latex" house
paints, but today's acrylic house paint usually
states it's 100% acrylic without any latex base
(latex being a rubber derivative).
I suspect the reason varnishes dry faster than
acrylic sold as mediums is because the latter
may have a retarder added to increase working
time. I add additional retarder in the form of
ethylene glycol so that I can work virtually
all day with it mixed into the paint on my
palette without it drying out.
NightMist
wrote:
Hey they are not always the same!
I use plain old acrylic gel medium as an isolation varnish, then go
over that with a mineral spirit acrylic varnish.
When I'm actually doing my glazes, I use the gel medium or Golden GAC
700, depending on how thin I want the paint to be.
The range of mediums and varnishes for acrylics has increased quite a
lot over the last little bit.
Barbara
will confess to having used water based acrylic varnish as a medium
before there were a bunch of choices
--
everybody is somebodys chew toy
Andrew D
<aTAKEcaTHIS...@iol.ie> wrote:
>Thanks for the advice guys (& gal)
>
>I do a lot of colour and composition
>practice on my illustration software
>So, the thinking behind it was to see if
>I could simulate the colours I liked on the pc
>by using the cmyk formula in paint.
In short - no. Your PC monitor works in RGB (RED/GREEN/BLUE), an entirely
different colour splace again. Even if you have selected CMYK as your
palette in your chosen software, what you see on screen is still projected
in RGB (usually adjusted to approximate the limits of CMYK).
>The illustrtation
>package I use makes up solid colours with the percentages
>so I could (in theorey) mix to those percentages
>with real paint.
But they will never look like what you see on screen. Computers offer an
opportunity to try out 'approximate' colour compositions but shouldn't be
used as a guide to actual painted colour.
>Anyway Im happy enough that
>it is probably not a great idea
It's a fine idea so long as you understand the limitations.
Andrew D
danf...@NOSPAMyahoo.com(Dan Fox) wrote:
>bal...@noemailever.com (Roy L. Ballou) wrote:
>>>
>> OTOH, varnish and medium
>> are one and the same when discussing
>> acrylics. But it would have been much
>> more efficient to say, "use
>> plenty of acrylic medium" instead of
>> what I did say.
>
>True. Plus, 'acrylic gel medium' is what it says on the jar. (grin)
Gel medium is different to medium.
Andrew D
danf...@NOSPAMyahoo.com(Dan Fox) wrote:
>Tina Mammoser <time...@mac.com> wrote:
> This week I was forced to use some liquitex acrylic varnish
>> because I ran out of medium and thought it would do. Unfortunately the
>> varish gets very sticky very quickly (whereas liquid matte medium doesn't
>> - at least not as quickly). Overbrushing did cause problems including
>> clouding and creating tiny tiny 'clumps' in the paint surface. Hey, even
>> I didn't know it would do this! So I'd recommend sticking with medium or
>> even plain ol' pva glue for students. I dont usually use the acrylic
>> varnish and had the bottle around as backup.
>
>
>Hi, Tina -
>
>Between the modern-art-is-evil nitwits, the kooks, and the turntables, I
>sometimes wonder why I bother to read this group.
I'm with you Dan - there sure are some egotistical, arrogant, dogmatic,
self-centred and intollerant bastards on this group. Someone should make a
list. Oh hang on, someone already did!
>Then I learn something.
Yep, not everyone knows everything they think they know - even if they do
have a degree!
Roy L. Ballou
right@the_end.of.my_tether says...
>>True. Plus, 'acrylic gel medium' is what it says on the jar. (grin)
>
>Gel medium is different to medium.
HA! Hoisted on his own petard!
Thanks too - I'd missed 'gel' being added
to the brew we were discussing.
Andrew D
danf...@NOSPAMyahoo.com(Dan Fox) wrote:
>bal...@noemailever.com (Roy L. Ballou) wrote:
>Correct - I looked on my bottle.
And I knew the difference between 'gel medium' and 'acrylic medium'
despite not having an art degree. :) Maybe I'm a prodigy?
Andrew D
danf...@NOSPAMyahoo.com(Dan Fox) wrote:
>right@the_end.of.my_tether (Andrew D) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Thanks too - I'd missed 'gel' being added
>> >> to the brew we were discussing.
>> >
>> >Correct - I looked on my bottle.
>>
>> And I knew the difference between 'gel medium' and 'acrylic medium'
>> despite not having an art degree. :) Maybe I'm a prodigy?
>
>Maybe you're just an asshole.
That's another possibility - but then, I wasn't the one who said the only
people worth learning from are those with a degree.
I'm just astounded that someone who claims superior knowledge of
everything art because he has a "universiky edderkayshun" (and who tells
others to ignore any 'teachers' without an art pedigree) had to look at
his jars and bottles to know there was a difference between acrylic medium
and gel medium.
Roy L. Ballou
right@the_end.of.my_tether says...
>>>Maybe I'm a prodigy?
Child or otherwise?
>>Maybe you're just an asshole.
You should be ashamed Dan. You're sounding
like Mani - or Richard.
>there was a difference between acrylic medium
>and gel medium.
Ummmm - to be totally correct you have to
say "between *acrylic* medium and
*acrylic* gel medium." And then, there is
*acrylic* varnish.
And I contend they are all the same thing
and can be used during the painting session
as one's (medium). In fact, I've even used
the gel as a final varnish when there was
some - pardon the pun - clear reason to do so...
Erik A. Mattila
>>>
>>You should be ashamed Dan. You're sounding
>>like Mani - or Richard.
>
>
> begging forgiveness for becoming what I beheld. (He's still an asshole.)
>
>
>>Ummmm - to be totally correct you have to
>>say "between *acrylic* medium and
>>*acrylic* gel medium." And then, there is
>>*acrylic* varnish.
>
>
> target on your ass in RAF (to continue the anal theme...)
>
>
>>And I contend they are all the same thing
>>and can be used during the painting session
>>as one's (medium). In fact, I've even used
>>the gel as a final varnish when there was
>>some - pardon the pun - clear reason to do so...
>
>
> for everything, including final varnish, and never had a problem. Let me do
> some research on this and get back. (I do keep learning things as a result
> of the silliness here.)
>
Here's a hint: a varnish should be removable w/o disturbing the art work
underneath. Unfortunately, some manufacturer's market medium as a
varnish, like Liquitex, but specify "Liquitex Acrylic Gloss Medium &
Varnish - ...a final +permanent+ varnish." Quite different than
"Liquitex Soluvar Gloss Picture Varnish - ... removable acrylic solution
varnish in a mineral spirit base for oils and acrylics." Golden has an
acrylic copolymer removable varnish, but requires ammonia to remove. I
guess it boils down to your functional definition of "varnish." If you
require a protective film (UV filter, dust/grit protection) a removable
varnish is probably the best. But if you just want to control the
patina of the painting, a clear layer on top (matte and gloss mixed as
desired) the permanent type is ok as far as I know.
Gee, makes me want to dust off my acrylics - or buy some of those new
colors? I'm really happy to see that Golden has made a simulated Naples
Yellow, which I've always thought was the most magic pigment possible.
Also Hooker's Green and Van Dyke Brown (which was nortoriously fugitive
in it's original form, but perhaps stable in its simulation).
see: http://www.goldenpaints.com/historical.htm
Erik
Erik A. Mattila
Marilyn Welch wrote:
>>Gee, makes me want to dust off my acrylics - or buy some of those new
>>colors? I'm really happy to see that Golden has made a simulated Naples
>>Yellow, which I've always thought was the most magic pigment possible.
>>Also Hooker's Green and Van Dyke Brown (which was nortoriously fugitive
>>in it's original form, but perhaps stable in its simulation).
>>
>>see: http://www.goldenpaints.com/historical.htm
>>
>>Erik
>
>
> Oops I shouda read the above before posting.
> Thanks Erik.
>
> Have you ever used Golden's
> green gold which has the warning
> "Danger to the testes if swallowed?"
>
> Painting can be scary.
>
> MW
Of course (he answered in a high squeeky voice.)
Erik (I haven't actually used it)
Andrew D
<mwel...@xxxislandnet.com> wrote:
[snip]
>Have you ever used Golden's
>green gold which has the warning
>"Danger to the testes if swallowed?"
>Painting can be scary.
Now I'm intrigued Marilyn. Why are you scared of something which might
affect the testes?
Jiri Borsky
> Yes. I used the terms with imprecision, which is like walking around with a
> target on your ass in RAF (to continue the anal theme...)
For a minute I took RAF to be the Royal Air Force and envisaged a round
of "friendly fire" target practice.
I guess all this warmongering is getting to me... :-((
Jiri Borsky