No More Secondhand God
Nik Maack
"Some years ago, in a book he called *No More Secondhand God*,
Buckminster Fuller said something like this: Why not meet God directly?
Why take someone else's story about hearing someone else's story as your
own religious experience? If you are inclined to meet God, why not go
out and look the fellow up? Why take someone else's word for what God
is like? Why not be the first Christian, the first Jew?
"In just the same way, we can engage in the creative process with the
awe and exhilaration of every new beginning, and we can even from time
to time do so without the heavy presence of precedent binding our hands
and holding our eyes with the accomplishments of others."
-- "No More Secondhand Art", by Peter London
food critics don't
really know
the entire meal.
they never
touched the meat
when it was raw.
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
A good chef is also a good food critic.
A good magician is also a good audience of one.
*end of comments on your post*
*MY ADVICE TO YOU*
Nick if you keep this up you will drive yourself crazy.
Just do your god dam painting and forget the rest.
keith
Nik Maack <nikm...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3D2BFA33...@sympatico.ca...
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
> they will never be ART.
Marylin: he lives in a city surrounded by art. It has an art school,
community collages that offer art courses and two universities that do the
same; he talks to artists and reads about art.
Even if he does nothing about formal training he cannot escape receiving
some training through exposure over a period of time. His statements have
undertones of the Tom Thompson myth (self taught learned from nature etc.,)
which G of 7 members later admitted was a marketing myth.
Remember he is a writer / poet and he will enter into moods characters -
play with words create new personas right under your nose.
He comes from the city that produced Tom Green - actually so do I - hmmmmm.
keith
Marilyn <mwe...@XZZislandnet.com> wrote in message
news:3D2C7BEF...@XZZislandnet.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Nik Maack wrote:
>
> > "Some years ago, in a book he called *No More Secondhand God*,
> > Buckminster Fuller said something like this: Why not meet God directly?
> > Why take someone else's story about hearing someone else's story as your
> > own religious experience? If you are inclined to meet God, why not go
> > out and look the fellow up? Why take someone else's word for what God
> > is like? Why not be the first Christian, the first Jew?
> >
> > "In just the same way, we can engage in the creative process with the
> > awe and exhilaration of every new beginning, and we can even from time
> > to time do so without the heavy presence of precedent binding our hands
> > and holding our eyes with the accomplishments of others."
>
> Yes, when they built the Bucky geodesic dome for the Montreal Expo,
> the builders decided to be creative, instead of screws they
> used rivets. To hell with 'precedent binding their hands,'
> they did it their way. Because of their creativity, it was
> impossible to take the dome down, relocate it and reuse it.
> It became a white elephant.
>
> A couple of years later, a workman inside the dome, decided to be
> creative, and thought to hell with 'precedent binding
> my hands' and he set off a spark which started a fire
> with turned the whole geodesic dome into an
> enormous fireball. Wow, was that creative!
>
> Go ahead with your untrained-first-hand-hobbies but
> they will never be ART.
>
> MW
>
Nik Maack
"keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com" wrote:
> Nick if you keep this up you will drive yourself crazy.
> Just do your god dam painting and forget the rest.
I'm reading this stuff because I'm vaguely interested in therapy, art
therapy, and the idea of one day becoming a counselor or therapist.
It's interesting to read about art from the perspective of a therapist.
The author (of "No More Secondhand Art") suggests that we all have an
innate image-creating sense, but that most of us (for an assortment of
reasons) end up repressing and discarding it. We should bring it back,
in order to explore our own heads and the world and use art to improve both.
The book is interesting, inspirational, and very flaky. I'm embarrassed
to enjoy it, because it's written in the style of "let's all hug and
sing and dance in order to release the great spirit in the woods" sort
of way.
I suspect that a lot of what the author says would be extremely
upsetting to people who went to art school for a million years.
Nik Maack
Marilyn wrote:
> Yes, when they built the Bucky geodesic dome for the Montreal Expo,
> the builders decided to be creative, instead of screws they
> used rivets. To hell with 'precedent binding their hands,'
> they did it their way. Because of their creativity, it was
> impossible to take the dome down, relocate it and reuse it.
> It became a white elephant.
>
> A couple of years later, a workman inside the dome, decided to be
> creative, and thought to hell with 'precedent binding
> my hands' and he set off a spark which started a fire
> with turned the whole geodesic dome into an
> enormous fireball. Wow, was that creative!
Are you trying to suggest that if amateurs sit down to create art of
their own, they may accidentally create white elephants that will catch
on fire? If only we could all be so lucky! I might just go paint a
white elephant in flames right now.
> Go ahead with your untrained-first-hand-hobbies but
> they will never be ART.
Art isn't something you have to defend with a pointed stick, Marilyn.
It doesn't belong to you. It belongs to everyone.
Nik Maack
Marilyn wrote:
> Interesting concept: art training by osmosis. Sure would be cheaper.
> Maybe they could train doctors like that, just let them hang around
> hospitals until they 'received training through exposure.'
(Presumably this is why doctors have to go through an internship.)
But I'm trying to understand your allusion here. Are you saying that an
artist who learns art through osmosis will (like a doctor trained
through osmosis) learn the "wrong" kind of art? And that this art will
be dangerous and kill people?
***
"Artist! Artist! You've got to help me! I need a picture of a dog to
hang over my couch!"
"Will you settle for this portrait of David Irving?"
[ my work: http://www.nikart.com/new/36.html ]
"Augh! My heart!"
Thud.
***
Because that sounds kind of cool. I think it would be great to make art
so wrong it causes people to fall down dead. It's far more appealing to
me, than say...
***
"Artist! Artist! I need a picture of a dog to hang over my couch!"
"Here you go."
[ competent dog portrait:
http://www.vex.net/rikscafe/illustrator/dogalt.html ]
"Thanks, artist!"
And no one falls down dead.
***
That's just... sad. I would much prefer a picture of, say, a weird
looking mutant dog with a big erection.
[weird shit: http://www.123art.co.uk/painting_dog_tired.html ]
Mon Sune
Why not meet God directly?
Yeah Nik, go jump off a cliff!
Let us know what it was like
meeting "Him" firsthand, or
perhaps you met "The Other"
instead. In either case, we'll
all be on tenterhooks awaiting
your report.
mdeli
>Mani lives in Toronto and all he sees is garbage,
>and all he says is garbage. No garbage no art.
Apparently Marilyn has again outgrown her panties. She doesn't realize
how tight they have gotten and that they are beginning to restrict the
blood flow to her brain. This is causing her to hallucinate about
Toronto.
Try not wearing any for a while. Let it all hang out. It will help you
feel better about this place and allow you concentrate more on the
garbage you consider art.
Tired of Modern Art? Check out my web page
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
then pull it inside out. Marilyn is the: (Don't we think highly of
ourselves - as the church lady would say). She puts on any more airs her
smell will make the garbage strike in Toronto seem like perfume. Even Mani
will have to leave.
Keep it up Nick - The Art World is so full of shit it Needs a Tom Green to
stir the pot. Need any help turning these stuffed shirt wasps upside down I
am right here.
Double your prices every week - officially sell nothing under a $1,000.00
see what happens.
keith
Nik Maack <nikm...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3D2CAA23...@sympatico.ca...
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
keith
Mon Sune <mo...@noemailever.com> wrote in message
news:3d2cc...@oracle.zianet.com...
Andrew D
"keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com" <scot...@rogers.com> wrote:
+Nick - You are another Tom Green. I recognise the turn the world upside down
+then pull it inside out. Marilyn is the: (Don't we think highly of
+ourselves - as the church lady would say). She puts on any more airs her
+smell will make the garbage strike in Toronto seem like perfume. Even Mani
+will have to leave.
+
+
+Keep it up Nick - The Art World is so full of shit it Needs a Tom Green to
+stir the pot. Need any help turning these stuffed shirt wasps upside down I
+am right here.
+
+Double your prices every week - officially sell nothing under a $1,000.00
+see what happens.
Here I'd have to agree with you. I was once told by a used car salesman
"if you can't sell it for $500, sell it fo $5000!"
High prices can portray an impression of quality where none exists (this
is not a comment on Nik's work btw). Low prices tell your viewer how you
feel about your own art.
Andy D.
"I'm a great speller - but a hopless tpyist!"
Nik Maack
Marilyn wrote:
> NO. I'm saying a person cannot learn art through osmosis.
It's sad when people can't tell I'm being playful, and respond to my
humour with angry whining. Yes, Marilyn, I was seriously asking you if
artists trained through osmosis will kill people with bad art.
> Your term
> 'artist' is presumptuous here. The person is not an artist until after
> the learning.
I think many 'artists' aren't artists even after the learning.
> Talk about 'jumping the gun,' you are good at it.
Jack be nimble,
Jack be quick,
Jack jumped over Marilyn's gun,
in order to avoid being sick.
> No, I mean you jump to your own conclusions, 3 steps
> into the future.
It's called "wit", and evidently they don't teach you how to recognize
it in art school.
Nik Maack
Marilyn wrote:
> > Are you trying to suggest that if amateurs sit down to create art of
> > their own, they may accidentally create white elephants that will catch
> > on fire? If only we could all be so lucky! I might just go paint a
> > white elephant in flames right now.
>
> NO. I wrote an anecdote to illustrate the need for training.
"Patient blandly repeats her assertions about art, missing the joke.
Diagnosis, osmosis doctor?"
"Absolutely no sense of humour, I'm afraid."
"Correct. And...?"
"We should remove her head and replace it with an elephant's head, then
set it on fire."
"Agreed. Where did I leave my chainsaw?"
"I believe you left it in the 'doesn't like to pet animals' ward."
"Ah, yes."
> > Art isn't something you have to defend with a pointed stick, Marilyn.
> > It doesn't belong to you. It belongs to everyone.
>
> Oh, how tella-tubby of you!
I guess this means you think art does belong to you?
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
keith
Marilyn <mwe...@xxxislandnet.com> wrote in message
news:3D2D033B...@xxxislandnet.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> "keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com" wrote:
>
> > Nick - You are another Tom Green. I recognise the turn the world upside
down
> > then pull it inside out. Marilyn is the: (Don't we think highly of
> > ourselves - as the church lady would say). She puts on any more airs her
> > smell will make the garbage strike in Toronto seem like perfume. Even
Mani
>
> Fuck off, Keith,
> you pompous-ass-non-artist-hobbyist-jerk-resident-blow-hard.
>
> Churchy enough for you?
>
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
submission to Nick's fuck word project and it's a graphic of a female pelvic
region. You declare that the greatest and only artists in the world are a
collection of female bum painters.
Mani you really have a problem. This is obsessive.
You have not come out with a single creative idea in years.
I may flame at Marilyn but it's because of a comment or comments she made
not because of a physical attribute that I am obsessed with.
I can empathise with Marilyn in this matter. You have gone over the edge.
keith (the bytown gentleman)
mdeli <n...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:3d2ce87...@news1.on.sympatico.ca...
mdeli
>Mani you have been going on about Marilyn's panties for years.
They are an astoundingly interesting subject. I'm planning to become
even more creative about them in the future. Marilyn fascinates me,
as you can see in the portrait (Picassoholic) on my web site which
she inspired. I'm sure you will notice a likeness. She emanates a
strong effluvia of inspiration which occasionaly wafts in this
direction.
>You make a
>submission to Nick's fuck word project and it's a graphic of a female pelvic
>region.
Unlike you I find Picasso inspiring. It derivative as Strickland says.
However, my Picassoholica portrait contains no cunts or assholes
(female pelvic regions in your moralist verbiage) nor is it deritive.
Do take a closer look o'connor. I'm sure it won't offend your childish
innocence.
>You declare that the greatest and only artists in the world are a
>collection of female bum painters.
Well, your not the only lowlife prick on this conference who claims I
say things which I never said.
>Mani you really have a problem.
Yes, you might try to clarify the matter with Psychobabble Fox.
>This is obsessive.
Definitely, some writing here is so stupid that it becomes obsessively
interesting. Check out my book on the matter.
>You have not come out with a single creative idea in years.
You never had an idea in your life and if you ever get one you haven't
the skill to paint it.
>I may flame at Marilyn but it's because of a comment or comments she made
>not because of a physical attribute that I am obsessed with.
Its all a matter of taste isn't it? You're too dull to see any
fascination in any ones panties.
>I can empathise with Marilyn in this matter. You have gone over the edge.
I'm touched. Send her flowers.
As Marilyn wisely proclaimed in her recent message "Fuck off, Keith,
you pompous-ass-non-artist-hobbyist-jerk-resident-blow-hard."
How can anyone not empathize with that?
Discussion
Wonderful! Even better if it was a mistake!
N.H
"keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com" <scot...@rogers.com> wrote in message
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