Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

How to mix watercolor paint and not get mud

14 views
Skip to first unread message

Prof. Johannes Vloothuis

unread,
Dec 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/5/96
to

Hi! My name is Joe.

First of all let's understand the word "purity". You will only get pure
colors when the sun shines thru a spectrum and splits the white color into
7 colors.

When painting, we artists try to get as close to pure color as possible.
Pigments in no way can imitate the colors in light. So there will always
be some margin of error.

Watercolor, if used appropriately will give you the "purest" color
possible over other mediums because of the fact that its transparency
permits light to actually travel thru the color, hit the white paper and
bounce back to your eyes. That is why it is called the luminous or the
transparent medium.

It is easier to avoid getting mud with other mediums such as oils because
you have to push the paint and intermix consciously to mix them. But with
watercolors they intermix immediately when placed together because they
are not pasty, but fluid. Here is where the problem and solution lies.

A) First of all most watercolor professionals have their secrets. One of
them is that they tend to stay away from mixing their colors in the
palette but rather mix the pigments right on the paper often with the
colors as they come out of the tube. In one spot of two square inches you
may see three difernt colors.

Attached to this is a .jpg file showing you the procedure of this. This is
the way I would paint the side of a white wall in shadow. I used three
colors.

Ultramarine blue
Burnt Sienna
Alizarin Crimson

Here's the procedure that would apply to most paintings

1. I put a dab of paint of each color on the palette.
2. By adding water, I made a little color puddle of each. Avoiding them to
encounter in the palette
3. I added a little Burnt Sienna to neutralize the *chroma (I will define
this below)
4. Once I had a nice looking blue color, I left it as is.
5. I rinsed my brush in water and proceeded to pick up the blue
6. Then I added the burnt sienna to different spots
7. Then I added a bit of alizarin to add flavor.
8. I lightly mixed these colors around by "dancing the brush". This can
also be achieved by just lifting the paper and tilting it around.

I realize we don't see these colors in nature on a wall in shadow, but if
we did copy it exactly as is in nature, we would have an area of one
solid bluish gray with no flavor and boring to the viewer. We artists are
to distort nature a bit to add spice because we cannot count on the light
and power of sunlight. So we have to fake light with additional colors.
Usually by placing warm and cool colors together. I other words your
masses throughout you painting should be variegated in color.


B) Another hint is, Do not fiddle with the paint. Most professionals lay
the paint in and leave it alone. For some unknown reason the more you move
the paint around the more it loses it "shine".

C) Always rinse your brush when grabbing for a different color. Because a
lot of the previous color is still hanging onto the brush fibers. If you
don't, then when you grab for the new color, they both will actually mix
inside the brush. This will not happen with pasty mediums such oils, but
watercolor is so fluid. So the color that goes on the painting and you
pick up are different.

D) Apply the Theory of Color Harmony and work with the color wheel until
it becomes second nature. There are different color schemes such as: Split
complements, analogous colors, etc. I suggest you make color swatches
mixing colors until you are happy with the freshness.

E) Stay away from all premixed grays and specially blacks. You don't need
them because any two colors from opposite sides of the wheel will give you
a nice gray. Never use white either, unless you must correct an error.

If you wish to play it safe, you can do most landscape paintings with
these colors:

Ultramarine blue
Burnt sienna
Alizarin Crimson
Hookers green

This palette will give you many different colors to work with. Just make
sure you don't mix more than 3 at the same time. If you wish to paint a
Winter or Fall scene, subtract the green. You may want to add yellow to
the above for a Summer or Spring scene and can subtract alizarin crimson.

You asked me, whether there was a book. I personally liked the
information in:

"How to Paint" by Foss published by Watson Gupttill

There are other books that deal with color harmony.

*Chroma. Also referred to as color intensity. This is the pigment raw
from the tube. Garish colors such as Hookers green, Ultramarine Blue, etc.
are too overpowering by themselves and most of the time will need to be
neutralized with their opposite color.

In summary:
* Mix as much as possible on the paper not in the palette
* Rinse your brush every time you pick up a new color
* Minimize your colors to the least possible. Don't mix more than 3 colors
together.
* Stay away from black or premixed gray.
* Learn and apply the Theory of Color ( color wheel and harmony)

I hope this answers your question and I wish you good luck. If you wish to
do so send me a picture file containing one of your paintings and I will
look at it and give you some suggestions. In the meantime, here is one of
mine.
I live in Mexico here we still have run down towns with horses. I don't
mind. I'm an artist!

Charles Eicher

unread,
Dec 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/6/96
to

Gee, ya know, I'm rather mystified by this article, so I thought I'd add a
few comments, and ask for your response..

In article <01bbe308.60681ce0$88a5...@amadeus.spin.com.mx>, "Prof.
Johannes Vloothuis" <jvl...@spin.com.mx> wrote:

> Hi! My name is Joe.
>
> First of all let's understand the word "purity". You will only get pure
> colors when the sun shines thru a spectrum and splits the white color into
> 7 colors.

Hmm.. How often does a spectrum occur in nature? Most natural objects
reflect colors in basically the same way as pigments do, by absorbing some
parts of the spectrum, and reflecting other parts.

> When painting, we artists try to get as close to pure color as possible.
> Pigments in no way can imitate the colors in light. So there will always
> be some margin of error.

Huh? Pigments don't imitate the colors in light, effectively, they ARE
colors transmitted with light.

> Watercolor, if used appropriately will give you the "purest" color
> possible over other mediums because of the fact that its transparency
> permits light to actually travel thru the color, hit the white paper and
> bounce back to your eyes. That is why it is called the luminous or the
> transparent medium.

You know, that's exactly what the oil painters say, that the volume of oil
in the paint allows light to penetrate into the paint, and travel through
the color, hit the canvas, etc.. Actually, this is LESS true of
watercolors..

>
> It is easier to avoid getting mud with other mediums such as oils because
> you have to push the paint and intermix consciously to mix them.

Huh? You haven't been in a Painting 1 class lately, have you? I assure you,
it is just as easy to get mud with oil as any other medium. I see it every
day. I've actually become interested in these colors of 'mud' and did a
couple of paintings exploring these awful colors..

> ..But with


> watercolors they intermix immediately when placed together because they
> are not pasty, but fluid. Here is where the problem and solution lies.

It is just as hard to paint wet-into-wet on oil as in watercolor.

> A) First of all most watercolor professionals have their secrets. One of
> them is that they tend to stay away from mixing their colors in the
> palette but rather mix the pigments right on the paper often with the
> colors as they come out of the tube. In one spot of two square inches you
> may see three difernt colors.

Lots of painters use colors right out of the tube.. I met a guy yesterday
who mixes his own oil colors out of commercial oil paint (in tubes) and
then puts it back into new tin tubes that he bought, so he can 'use it
right out of the tube'..

>
> Attached to this is a .jpg file showing you the procedure of this.

Please don't post binaries into rec.arts.fine, Dick Depew will cancel them,
along with your message. Fortunately your attachment was missing.

> Here's the procedure that would apply to most paintings
>
> 1. I put a dab of paint of each color on the palette.
> 2. By adding water, I made a little color puddle of each. Avoiding them to
> encounter in the palette
> 3. I added a little Burnt Sienna to neutralize the *chroma (I will define
> this below)
> 4. Once I had a nice looking blue color, I left it as is.

Huh? I thought you don't mix colors. I don't understand your whole process.
An easier method, taught to me, was that you should only add one color to
another, never work with three colors at once. Then, add your white or
black after the basic hue is reached. Of course, that's for oils so you
might work differently. I don't see anything wrong with adding white or
black to watercolors. When I work in watercolor, I usually work
predominantly in black and white, so actually, I only add a little bit of
color to my blacks (or whites).

> I realize we don't see these colors in nature on a wall in shadow, but if
> we did copy it exactly as is in nature, we would have an area of one
> solid bluish gray with no flavor and boring to the viewer. We artists are
> to distort nature a bit to add spice because we cannot count on the light
> and power of sunlight. So we have to fake light with additional colors.
> Usually by placing warm and cool colors together. I other words your
> masses throughout you painting should be variegated in color.

Yeah, simultaneous contrast of colors and all that stuff.

> B) Another hint is, Do not fiddle with the paint. Most professionals lay
> the paint in and leave it alone. For some unknown reason the more you move
> the paint around the more it loses it "shine".

Never saw this in Watercolor, except that its possible to work the water
into the paper with the brush, through the sizing, where otherwise it might
just lie on top. Result: buckled paper. Actually, this is one of the areas
where oil paint stands out, if you use a stiff brush like a bright, and
only loosely mixed colors, you get nice little striations in the ridges of
the paint. Smooth it out, and the paint loses its life.

>
> C) Always rinse your brush when grabbing for a different color. Because a
> lot of the previous color is still hanging onto the brush fibers. If you
> don't, then when you grab for the new color, they both will actually mix
> inside the brush. This will not happen with pasty mediums such oils, but
> watercolor is so fluid.

This is also a problem in oils. In fact, if you rinse your brush in
contaminated turps, it will still contaminate your brush, and your color.

> D) Apply the Theory of Color Harmony and work with the color wheel until
> it becomes second nature. There are different color schemes such as: Split
> complements, analogous colors, etc. I suggest you make color swatches
> mixing colors until you are happy with the freshness.

I just don't see how this advice is going to help anyone. Sorry to be so blunt.

> E) Stay away from all premixed grays and specially blacks. You don't need
> them because any two colors from opposite sides of the wheel will give you
> a nice gray. Never use white either, unless you must correct an error.

You know, I really must object when I hear people making such firm rules
like "Never use black/white/etc".. There's a whole spectrum of blacks. I
just bought some nice sumi ink sticks in Japan, they are, of course, black.
But one stick (a really expensive one too!) has a wonderful range of
colors, from a pale rosy pink, to a rich brown, to a dense black all
depending on dilution (gosh, I wish I knew how they did that!)... And I'm
also doing some large paintings on paper using cheap tblack and white
tempra, everyone is asking me if I'm using blue pigment. Anyway, there is a
whole spectrum of blacks and whites. To disregard this is to disregard a
major tool.


> If you wish to play it safe, you can do most landscape paintings with
> these colors:
>
> Ultramarine blue
> Burnt sienna
> Alizarin Crimson
> Hookers green

This has been a subject of endless discussion on r.a.f, in prior days.
Suffice to say, I don't know anyone who would seriously try working in such
a limited pallette.

> This palette will give you many different colors to work with. Just make
> sure you don't mix more than 3 at the same time.

Um, that's exactly why you need a larger pallette. You shouldn't have to
mix more than TWO colors to get the basic hue. For example, I can move my
ultramarine towards blue-green with your pallette, but not towards
yellow-green.

IMHO, a more practical advice is, pick a 'warm and cool' color of each
primary (RGB). For example, you might want an alizarine crimson (cool) and
a Cadmium red (warm). You might want to go farther, and use 4 pigments of
each primary color, warm and red pairs in both a chemical and a natural
pigment (that's not a very good way to describe it though).. I'm not sure
how to describe this, there's a note from Gamblin that discusses this. The
only way I can think is to describe the difference between ultramarine (a
'natural') and pthalo blue (chemical).
Then, on top of this, you'll need some mixing colors, complementary to the
primaries. For example, I always have some purples to mix with yellows. Its
awfully hard to mix up a purple to dim a yellow. I like to have greens,
purples, oranges, etc, as secondaries.

> ..If you wish to paint a


> Winter or Fall scene, subtract the green. You may want to add yellow to
> the above for a Summer or Spring scene and can subtract alizarin crimson.

I have NO idea what you're talking about.

> *Chroma. Also referred to as color intensity. This is the pigment raw
> from the tube. Garish colors such as Hookers green, Ultramarine Blue, etc.
> are too overpowering by themselves and most of the time will need to be
> neutralized with their opposite color.

Or diluted heavily. Or have white added to them. Or dimmed with black. Or
with a paynes grey. Or or or...

> In summary:
> * Mix as much as possible on the paper not in the palette

Huh? You mean overpaint on a dry painting, or mix paint into wet areas?

> * Rinse your brush every time you pick up a new color

duh..

> * Minimize your colors to the least possible.

Huh? You mean use a restricted number of pigments? Or just to not mix a lot
of different colors in your painting? You're not clear here. Jeez, I can
mix almost an infinite number of colors from any two pigments.

> ...Don't mix more than 3 colors
> together.

If it was me, I'd say 2 colors. You should be able to reach about any color
merely by mixing the right two. The only exceptions I can think of are when
you want to move some secondary color towards some other secondary color,
which is not very good practice..

> * Stay away from black or premixed gray.

Unless you like black or grey. Or, unless you like mixing colors into
blacks or whites. Or or or...
You know, there are entire genres of watercolor painting that start with
black ONLY, and add color only as an overpainting.

> * Learn and apply the Theory of Color ( color wheel and harmony)

Better yet: try to get a rare Holbein Watercolor brochure. Its in Japanese,
but it has their colors arranged on the Munsell color system. Learn more
than one theory of color. Learn additive and subtractive color systems, and
how to tell the difference. Best of all, paint a lot, and make a lot of
choices about how you like to use color. Experience is the best teacher. Oh
yeah, don't forget to buy the best pigments possible, it has a large effect
on the colors you get.


| Charles Eicher |
| -=- |
| cei...@inav.net |

Bonnie Miller

unread,
Dec 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/6/96
to

Thanks for the information! I found it very helpful. I paint in oils
for many years and from time to time try the watercolor medium. I took a
class last year in watercolor, but dropped out because I didn't care for
the teacher's approach. She was a purist and objected to the use of
masking or other techniques that I had used before. I find it fun to
play around and be creative with any tools I find useful. It's the
spontaneity of watercolor that I love.
Anyways, I liked your description of the methods you use to lay your
paint down and I'm sure that it will help my paintings. Have a good
holiday.
Bonnie


kajoj...@aol.com

unread,
Dec 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/7/96
to

In article <ceicher-ya0230800...@news.inav.net>,
cei...@inav.net (Charles Eicher) writes:

>
>Gee, ya know, I'm rather mystified by this article, so I thought I'd add
a
>few comments, and ask for your response..
>
>In article <01bbe308.60681ce0$88a5...@amadeus.spin.com.mx>, "Prof.
>Johannes Vloothuis" <jvl...@spin.com.mx> wrote:
>
>> Hi! My name is Joe.

(ABCD &)


>> E) Stay away from all premixed grays and specially blacks. You don't
need
>> them because any two colors from opposite sides of the wheel will give
you
>> a nice gray. Never use white either, unless you must correct an error.
>
>You know, I really must object when I hear people making such firm rules
>like "Never use black/white/etc"..
>

>This has been a subject of endless discussion on r.a.f, in prior days.
>Suffice to say, I don't know anyone who would seriously try working in
such
>a limited pallette.
>
>> This palette will give you many different colors to work with. Just
make
>> sure you don't mix more than 3 at the same time.
>
>Um, that's exactly why you need a larger pallette. You shouldn't have to

>mix more than TWO colors to get the basic hue. (...etc...)

Sorry I missed the earlier r.a.f. w/c discussion - or maybe not. Rules
are important for learning what the medium will do - and if you want to
paint just like the pictures in the how-to books (or, maybe write yet
another one) - otherwise, they are guidelines and not written in stone.

Nobody said anything about "soup" - that marvelous mixture of everything
you've already used on this or even the last painting - it's a unifying
element added to many (not all) mixtures which (if not overdone) gives
continuity to your painting. The compliment to "pure" color is "mud."
(Don't everyone yell at me at once - I know about you neatnicks and your
shiny white pallets.)

.............Karen Jacobs.................................
http://members.aol.com/kajojacobs/index.htm

Brother Alphabet

unread,
Dec 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/8/96
to


Quoting posts from Eicher and the Mad Professor Joe :

> > Watercolor, if used appropriately will give you the "purest" color
> > possible over other mediums because of the fact that its transparency
> > permits light to actually travel thru the color, hit the white paper and
> > bounce back to your eyes. That is why it is called the luminous or the
> > transparent medium.
>
> You know, that's exactly what the oil painters say, that the volume of oil
> in the paint allows light to penetrate into the paint, and travel through
> the color, hit the canvas, etc.. Actually, this is LESS true of
> watercolors..

I'd have to say that this would be less likely to occur with oils or other
opaque media, what with opaque referring to the nature of the substance to
deter the passage of light.

> > A) First of all most watercolor professionals have their secrets. One of
> > them is that they tend to stay away from mixing their colors in the
> > palette but rather mix the pigments right on the paper often with the
> > colors as they come out of the tube.

Er...I rarely ever mix colors anywhere.
You mention the aspect of transparency...?
Since the media is relatively transparent you can mix colors by layering
wet to dry, which yields much cleaner edges and a world of new textural
effects.

> > Here's the procedure that would apply to most paintings
> >
> > 1. I put a dab of paint of each color on the palette.
> > 2. By adding water, I made a little color puddle of each. Avoiding them to
> > encounter in the palette
> > 3. I added a little Burnt Sienna to neutralize the *chroma (I will define
> > this below)

How nice of you to define chroma for us all.

> > 4. Once I had a nice looking blue color, I left it as is.
>
> Huh? I thought you don't mix colors. I don't understand your whole process.
> An easier method, taught to me, was that you should only add one color to
> another, never work with three colors at once. Then, add your white or
> black after the basic hue is reached. Of course, that's for oils so you
> might work differently. I don't see anything wrong with adding white or
> black to watercolors. When I work in watercolor, I usually work
> predominantly in black and white, so actually, I only add a little bit of
> color to my blacks (or whites).

Shazang! I decline to comment on any of these points for fear of a
temptation to use overly harsh sentiments.

> > I realize we don't see these colors in nature on a wall in shadow, but if
> > we did copy it exactly as is in nature, we would have an area of one
> > solid bluish gray with no flavor and boring to the viewer.

All shadows arent bluish gray. Man you don't know a damn thing about color
theory do you?

> > We artists are
> > to distort nature a bit to add spice because we cannot count on the light
> > and power of sunlight. So we have to fake light with additional colors.
> > Usually by placing warm and cool colors together. I other words your
> > masses throughout you painting should be variegated in color.

Due to the nature of light,
NOTHING human beings can see can be seen as a single pure hue.
The larger the object, the more chance it has to have color changes occur
on its surface due to light and shadow, reflected light, etc etc etc.

> > B) Another hint is, Do not fiddle with the paint. Most professionals lay
> > the paint in and leave it alone. For some unknown reason the more you move
> > the paint around the more it loses it "shine".

ACK! Why not fiddle with it?
What about texture? The flow of water cannot be controlled completely on
the paper's surface...the entire beauty of the media is in the chaotic
aspects of the pigment's reaction with the water and the water's reaction
with the surface.

Plus you are discounting layering techniques and external effect tools
such as salt, imprintation, scrubbing, sanding, scraping and drybrush.



> > C) Always rinse your brush when grabbing for a different color. Because a
> > lot of the previous color is still hanging onto the brush fibers.

Unless you had a huge glob of paint left, residual pigments will not
matter so much.

> > D) Apply the Theory of Color Harmony and work with the color wheel until
> > it becomes second nature.

Better idea:
Learn the wheel through tertiary, and then throw ity out the window.

There are different color schemes such as: Split
> > complements, analogous colors, etc. I suggest you make color swatches
> > mixing colors until you are happy with the freshness.

I suggest learning media manipulation and brush handling.
If you can't paint already, dont fool with watercolors.
If you are a beginning painter, and have not had any other experience,
dont paint at all...Draw for a year or two, then paint with oils or
acrylics, and then paint with watercolor.
The best way to frustrate yourself right out of the artmaking is to expect
to be good at watercolor in a few simple lessons...

On second thought, if this is your new hobby, please paint with
watercolors...buy ALL the pigments you can find and only use pure sable
brushes that cost at least 40 dollars each...and please be of the mindset
that watercolor is very easy...very very easy.



> > E) Stay away from all premixed grays and specially blacks. You don't need
> > them because any two colors from opposite sides of the wheel will give you
> > a nice gray. Never use white either, unless you must correct an error.

BULL! BULL BULL BULL.

You should know better than this...the color wheel is not the same as the
pigment even if you do mix what you think is the same color...the
ingredients used to make the pigment have widely varying effects when
trying to mix up a neutral. This also applies to the good ol 'yellow and
blue makes green' rule of thumb. Only certain blues and certain yellows
make green. Also, mix alizarin crimson with certain blues and you get a
brown.

The best advice is: Dont obsess on the wheel, and certainly don't limiot
yourself once you learn the techniques. White, black and tubed neutrals
are all great to use.

HOWEVER, I would again recommend that you not rely upon mixing in the
typical oil/acrylic mixing sense. The power of transparent media is
layering. Try to achieve hues through layering over mixing.

> > If you wish to play it safe, you can do most landscape paintings with
> > these colors:
> >
> > Ultramarine blue
> > Burnt sienna
> > Alizarin Crimson
> > Hookers green

Holy COWWWWWWW

This Professor is the anti-painter!
Where the heck's the yellow??

All you really truly need to make anything would be Cadmium Yellow,
Magenta and a decent Cerulean Blue.

Beginner's watercolor palette:

Cadmium Yellow/'Indian' Yellow
Cadmium Orange
Carmine/Cadmium Red Medium
Alizarine Crimson
Rose (Of some sort)/Magenta
Purple Lake
Mauve (Not all brands)/Diox Violet
Prussian Blue
Ultramarine Blue/French Ultramarine Blue/Cobalt Blue
Turquiose
Hooker's Green Deep
Emerald Green/Sap Green
Indigo/Paynes Gray

These should be all you need for both opacity and color combinations...

If you can find/afford it I would also suggest the addition of Lapiz
Lazuli to any watercolor palette...


I can hardly see how you paint realistic landscapes without yellows...
Yellow can be used as the base layer for just about anything...
If you are seriously working on landscapes you should know that making a
base wash with primaries makes the rest of your composition more cohesive
and tons richer.


Hutto

William Markiewicz

unread,
Dec 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/9/96
to

Brother Alphabet <ja...@isis.msstate.edu> wrote:


>> > If you wish to play it safe, you can do most landscape paintings with
>> > these colors:
>> >
>> > Ultramarine blue
>> > Burnt sienna
>> > Alizarin Crimson
>> > Hookers green

hysterical

>Holy COWWWWWWW

>This Professor is the anti-painter!
>Where the heck's the yellow??

>All you really truly need to make anything would be Cadmium Yellow,
>Magenta and a decent Cerulean Blue.

I kinda like this suggestion. I think
I'd add a black and a white but yes, those three would do.

Nikole (at William's email)

William
Vagabond Pages
http://web.idirect.com/~vagabond


0 new messages