Artnews: What are they teaching art students these days?
todd
http://www.artnews.com/currentarticle.cfm?type=feature&art_id=1293
Anyone care to comment on their art education?
I had 2 good years of instruction in painting and drawing at a local
community college and upon transfering to a nearby university I was
shocked and appalled at the quality of intruction. Only 2 instructors
showed any enthusiasm for their subject matter and one was an adjunct
that taught only occasionaly. The rest had their tenure and cared little.
One professor (and head of the art dept at the time) spent the first five
minutes of classing setting up unchallenging and unimaginative
assignments (fruit or skeleton studies in advanced painting) and then
spent the rest of class in his office working on personal projects.
I learned more on my own than I did in any classes I took. That's fine
but what did I pay for? I've heard similar stories from friends at known
"art schools". Higher education needs some standards for it's educators.
Getting your MFA doesn't make you qualified to teach.
article excerpt:
<snip> One student at New York’s School of Visual Arts (SVA) took this
creative license to an extreme last term and ended up hobbling the city’s
subway system and landing in jail on a charge of reckless endangerment.
"What an idiotic project," seethed New York Times chief art critic
Michael Kimmelman when freshman Clinton Boisvert’s "fear" project was
revealed to have been a sculpture assignment rather than a terrorist
attack. "As the saying goes, art this bad ought to be a crime," he added.
Apparently inspired by Keith Haring, the 25-year-old had placed three
dozen black boxes in a highly trafficked subway station, each with the
word "Fear" scrawled across it.
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Herbert Ward
When I look at the UT Austin art department's web site, I see only one
instructor whose work demonstrates either skill or taste.
Despite this forum's several discussions on aggressively inane art, I
still have no good understanding of the political dynamic which
supports it.
Mani Deli
>Very interesting read:
>
>http://www.artnews.com/currentarticle.cfm?type=feature&art_id=1293
>
>Anyone care to comment on their art education?
I had lots to say in former messages. I'll repeat some for the newer
lot here.
>I learned more on my own than I did in any classes I took. That's fine
>but what did I pay for?
You paid because you never took the time to think it over rationally.
>I've heard similar stories from friends at known
>"art schools". Higher education needs some standards for it's educators.
>Getting your MFA doesn't make you qualified to teach.
Check my painting "art diploma take one."
>article excerpt:
>
><snip> One student at New York’s School of Visual Arts (SVA) took this
>creative license to an extreme last term and ended up hobbling the city’s
>subway system and landing in jail on a charge of reckless endangerment.
This is because art schools teach a creed instead of a craft.
>"What an idiotic project," seethed New York Times chief art critic
>Michael Kimmelman when freshman Clinton Boisvert’s "fear" project was
>revealed to have been a sculpture assignment rather than a terrorist
>attack. "As the saying goes, art this bad ought to be a crime," he added.
>Apparently inspired by Keith Haring, the 25-year-old had placed three
>dozen black boxes in a highly trafficked subway station, each with the
>word "Fear" scrawled across it.
>
Michael Kimmelman is as big a pompous Artspeaking idiot as any art
school teacher. He rejects one painting of schmiers and stripes in
favor of another.
>
...no skill no art!
Want to get away from the indecipherable imbecilities and absurd pretensions of the modern art establishment?
Check out my web page http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
Mani Deli
However if you look carefully there is a chance you could find
something worth while.
- Don't attend a school without first seeing the work of its students.
Forget about any bullshit about the fame of the school or its
teachers. Ask yourself whether the students can do something that you
can't. Then ask yourself whether they can do something you want to do.
Make sure you feel that the student work is superior to yours. If you
feel you can do better work than the teacher or his students, forget
it.
-When it comes to drawing which is the foundation of all that follows
make sure the teacher can draw. Look at his work. If it is no better
or worse than that of the students he's definitely a loser. Now look
at the work of advanced students, if its no better than that of
earlier students the place is dreamland.
--If your teacher is extremely nice, utterly charming and glamorous,
always remember that this is no criterion for judgment. Many students
blindly imitate a teacher to gain approval and then are convinced that
they are getting somewhere. They usually find the truth after they
leave school. If good grades are dependent on this, as is often the
case, get out of there fast. Fooling the teacher amounts to fooling
yourself. Good grades or certificates from prestigious art schools
will not help you in the long run, unless you have spectacular
connections. Unless you have spectacular connections, all that counts
is the quality of your work.
-Always keep an eye on what others are doing; other students can often
teach you more than the instructors.
-Try to get work in your field if you can, even while attending
school. Even if it is lowly work you will most likely learn much about
your profession which you can't get in school. Cash in on your
abilities as early as you can.
-Leave school as soon as you feel that you have acquired the knowledge
you needed to become professional or you find that you aren't
improving any more (which may occur after about a month). Except for
the inmates, who are committed to these institutions for life, art
school is a temporary state of affairs. Also note that except to
failure academics, certificates in art are worthless.
The more incompetent artists there are, the more work and better
living for Those who know their craft..
todd
>>I learned more on my own than I did in any classes I took. That's fine
>>but what did I pay for?
>You paid because you never took the time to think it over rationally.
But I did get that nifty diploma that's been sitting on my bookshelf the
last 10 years...
Dr. Slick
> Most art schools produce failures because they are run by failures.
> However if you look carefully there is a chance you could find
> something worth while.
>
i guess this explains your failure as an artist.
> - Don't attend a school without first seeing the work of its students.
> Forget about any bullshit about the fame of the school or its
> teachers. Ask yourself whether the students can do something that you
> can't. Then ask yourself whether they can do something you want to do.
> Make sure you feel that the student work is superior to yours. If you
> feel you can do better work than the teacher or his students, forget
> it.
>
You certainly don't do anything i want to! Just re-hashing Dali!
>
> --If your teacher is extremely nice, utterly charming and glamorous,
> always remember that this is no criterion for judgment. Many students
> blindly imitate a teacher to gain approval and then are convinced that
> they are getting somewhere. They usually find the truth after they
> leave school. If good grades are dependent on this, as is often the
> case, get out of there fast. Fooling the teacher amounts to fooling
> yourself. Good grades or certificates from prestigious art schools
> will not help you in the long run, unless you have spectacular
> connections. Unless you have spectacular connections, all that counts
> is the quality of your work.
>
Maybe you should work on getting more connections.
Slick
Drslick.org
Dr. Slick
>
> >I learned more on my own than I did in any classes I took. That's fine
> >but what did I pay for?
>
> You paid because you never took the time to think it over rationally.
>
And who clearly wasted their money on YOUR education, Mani?
Slick
Drslick.org
Lauren Foster-MacLeod
>>
>> >I learned more on my own than I did in any classes I took. That's fine
>> >but what did I pay for?
>> You paid because you never took the time to think it over rationally.
I thought about the original question a bit before posting.
I can speak for myself, and I did go to artschool. I actually starting
taking artclasses at about age 9, and was encouraged by my family from the
time I started drawing -- probably about age 3 or 4. It has always been
something I am good at, am passionate about doing, and decided I was going
to pursue seriously before I started gradeschool.
So, what did I get out of my art education (besides the nifty diploma)?
A lot.
You have to be ready to learn and to think -- very important. I learned
how to look, how to look for creative solutions, self-discipline, skill,
history, examples of how other artists work and think....
A good art education helps one develop technical skills, but more
importantly, helps one develop how to think creatively. I didn't realize
how much that is a part of my thinking until I spent time brainstorming
with people who don't have this skill. Also, how can you know what you
DON'T know, until you have the oportunity to be exposed to it? At a good
artschool, you are being presented all kinds of things for 4 years (for a
Bachelor's degree).
As someone who likes a variety of mediums, when I get an idea, I need
to figure out how best to execute it. Should I paint it, draw it, sculpt
it.... Often this means figuring out how to do it. Artschool gave me the
opportunity to learn all this stuff over time, with excellent teachers.
The critiques and discussions at artschool open one up to new
approaches. If you are self-taught and working on your own, it can be a
bit of a vacuum, and your technique can suffer.
From my art education, I know what to expect from the "art world", the
lingo, and it has given my confidence, and I have developed opinions out
of experience.
Sure, I do still have a lot to learn, but I can't imagine what kind of
art I'd be producing without that artschool education. I cherish it.
As for those who don't think they have good teachers at an artschool --
DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! Go to the head of the school and calmly look into
it. They need feedback. If it becomes apparent that nothing can be done,
you can either drop the class, transfer to another, or, in a worst-case
scenario, change schools. Of course, it helps if you did your homework
before you registered. ie: Looked into different artschools. I did this,
and depending on what you want to learn, you should be able to find a
school that suits you.
Lauren
--
THE BLESSED BEE
www.blessedbee.com
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Hans Summ
says...
>I thought about the original question a bit before posting.
>I can speak for myself, and I did go to artschool.
Going to art college AIN'T just about ART!
I suppose "art school" has different meaning for
different people. As for attending a 4-year university
art program and obtaining a degree in art - either
a BA in Art or a BFA in art, I will repeat what I've
already said in response to the naysayers umpteen times in
this forum:
1. You'll get out of your degree program what you're
willing to put into "learning" while in school. If
you're there only to satisfy mommy and daddy with
a 'college degree' or because you heard college kids
all live the party life, then NO degree is going to
help you when you graduate, should you be so lucky.
2. A degree program in the arts is little different
than a degree program in other disciplines in that
you MUST complete non-art core curricula courses that
may be tougher than any art class you take. You know -
the old 'reading, writing and 'rithmetic' stuff.
3. The university experience, at least in the USA,
puts you in a "learning environment" like none you
will ever experience "learning on your own." It gives
you resources not available otherwise.
I could keep enumerating, but the above hopefully
gets the idea across:
Going to college AIN'T just about ART!
Lauren Foster-MacLeod
> In article <b7qamc$pb0$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca>, dz...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> says...
>
>>I thought about the original question a bit before posting.
>>I can speak for myself, and I did go to artschool.
> Going to art college AIN'T just about ART!
> I suppose "art school" has different meaning for
> different people. As for attending a 4-year university
> art program and obtaining a degree in art - either
> a BA in Art or a BFA in art, I will repeat what I've
> already said in response to the naysayers umpteen times in
> this forum:
> Going to college AIN'T just about ART!
Of course, I agree with you, and thought that I also put this idea across
in my post. If one is open, enthusiastic and works their butt off, taking
advantage of all the opportunities a good art college can offer, one can
benefit greatly, and come out at the other end with skills, wisdom,
opinions, and what is necessary to succeed in the art-field or in an art
or creativity-related field.
However, if one expects to have artisitc ability offered to them on a
plate, so to speak, and to be given an artist-formula, I don't think
they'll succeed. You need to have your eyes and soul open to new ideas.
Expect to be challenged.