Newbie artist
Captain Pedantic
Would this be an appropriate place to ask for critiques of my first
sketches?
--
Captain Pedantic
Noumenon
> sketches?
Ehhh....
I don't think so.
Of course, you can ask whatever you wish but ...
If your art is ugly and it really sucks - you will get 255 responses in this
group
( half of them will be pinky dithyrambs to your art,
the other half will be angry curses and postings calling you all kind of
names);
however if you art is just good or OK - do not expect to hear anything (!)
Because the only fuel/stimulus this newsgroup seems to be running on is
NEGATIVE emotions derived from never-ending, stupid & pointless "flame" wars
and abusive gloating tirades ...
- where subject of art is secondary, altogether irrelevant and quite
insignificant thing ...
Weaving the Conundrum
-=| NOUMENON |=-
Captain Pedantic
"Noumenon" <ArtE...@concentric.net> wrote :
>
> however if you art is just good or OK - do not expect to hear anything (!)
>
> Because the only fuel/stimulus this newsgroup seems to be running on is
> NEGATIVE emotions derived from never-ending, stupid & pointless "flame"
wars
> and abusive gloating tirades ...
What a shame. I have been reading through some of the past posts and I
am afraid your comments are not completely unfounded.
However, I always say that if you want interesting, on topic,
constructive posts on a NG, post some.
Here is my link, hope you enjoy my sketches.
http://home.cfl.rr.com/rockledge/Drawings1.htm
Captain Pedantic
"Marilyn" <mwe...@islandnet.com> wrote :
>
> This group has its resident negative grouchy old geezers so it is not
> really a good place for critique or for discussion.
Well, killfiles might help...
> I checked your website and I really like your drawings. They are fresh,
> and loose with original subject matter and composition.
Thank you.
> My recommendation
> would be to use more colours, for example put some purple and blue on the
> black beetle. The holes in the log are too identical, vary the colours a
little.
I know exactly what you mean and have been working on it for the full
sized images... Lots of tedium, layering, erasing...
> For a newbie, I would say you have great potential.
I appreciate that. While I have been doing 3d computer graphics for a
little while, I am only about 2 months into physical drawing and painting
and hope to get to the point that I might actually show some of my work in a
real gallery. Long way to go and I ain't gettin any younger.
Noumenon
>
> What a shame.
Exactly! It's really bad.
Sad but true.
> However, I always say that if you want interesting, on topic,
> constructive posts on a NG, post some.
Ohhh!!! Attempts had been made already. -- Nothing!
Such conversations either end up quickly without anything productive,
or people turn to personal attacks at once.
No objectivity or endeavour to be impersonal and sober.
> Here is my link, hope you enjoy my sketches.
You like green as I see.
Hmmm, tricky colour.
Try to add more contrast to your drawings - they seem ehhh... too pale
and lacking depth ...
Captain Pedantic
"Noumenon" <ArtE...@concentric.net> wrote :
>
> Such conversations either end up quickly without anything productive,
> or people turn to personal attacks at once.
> No objectivity or endeavour to be impersonal and sober.
It's difficult, especially when people have a history together...
> > Here is my link, hope you enjoy my sketches.
>
> You like green as I see.
> Hmmm, tricky colour.
I always end up putting in grass because I get tired of drawing detail,
especially for these little sketches. I do them while at work and can't
really put my mind on them for more than a minute or two at a time and I try
to crank out one per shift. These each have about a total of 30 minute in
them apiece.
> Try to add more contrast to your drawings - they seem ehhh... too pale
> and lacking depth ...
Some of that is my poor old scanner, but others have said the same thing
looking at the originals. Maybe (like Marilyn said), more colors. And
perhaps a firmer stroke as I gain confidence?
Thanks for your comments, I really value any input I can get.
Andrew D
Pedantic" <None....@Thank.you.anyway.com> wrote:
+"Noumenon" <ArtE...@concentric.net> wrote :
+>
+> however if you art is just good or OK - do not expect to hear anything (!)
+>
+> Because the only fuel/stimulus this newsgroup seems to be running on is
+> NEGATIVE emotions derived from never-ending, stupid & pointless "flame"
+wars
+> and abusive gloating tirades ...
+
+
+ What a shame. I have been reading through some of the past posts and I
+am afraid your comments are not completely unfounded.
+
+ However, I always say that if you want interesting, on topic,
+constructive posts on a NG, post some.
+
+ Here is my link, hope you enjoy my sketches.
+
+ http://home.cfl.rr.com/rockledge/Drawings1.htm
The problem might be that a lot of people ask for a critique by saying
"here's my website, tell me what you think". So people look and tell you
what they think - and they often don't like it which is only natural when
you're dealing with matters of taste and fashion.
In order to give a more appropriate "critique" of your work, people really
need to know how long you've been at it, what you hope to achieve in terms
of style, genre, technique etc, your influences and how you've gone about
learning to date.
Unless your website spells out your story (and many people won't read that
first anyway), people will probably assume you're a white male somewhere
between the age of 15 and 50 and they'll make assumptions about your
chosen path based on what they see on your site.
If you're very good at what you do, then your intentions may be obvious
(though this doesn't guarantee favourable reports from all corners) but if
you're just starting out, then people may not be in a position to
determine your intent. To avoid this, feed them enough info on which to
base their analysis.
Occasionally you'll get conflicting reports from the same person "ignore
all the rules - but do work on your composition" - that sort of thing. You
need to figure out how you deal with this sort of advice based on your own
artistic beliefs.
Andy D.
"I'm a great speller - but a hopless tpyist!"
Captain Pedantic
"Andrew D" <right@the_end.of.my_tether> wrote :
> +
> + Here is my link, hope you enjoy my sketches.
> +
> + http://home.cfl.rr.com/rockledge/Drawings1.htm
>
> The problem might be that a lot of people ask for a critique by saying
> "here's my website, tell me what you think". So people look and tell you
> what they think - and they often don't like it which is only natural when
> you're dealing with matters of taste and fashion.
>
> In order to give a more appropriate "critique" of your work, people really
> need to know how long you've been at it, what you hope to achieve in terms
> of style, genre, technique etc, your influences and how you've gone about
> learning to date.
Well... I didn't want to bore anyone. But since you sorta asked...
I -am- a white male between 15 and 50. Actually between 45 and 50. I am
a home schooling dad of a young child in early grade school levels. I gave
up my carreer, partly because of an injury, but mostly to do home schooling.
I work part time at night doing directory assistance for ATT. About 2 months
ago I switched to later hours and saw these ladies doing knitting and crafts
between the fairly sparse calls.
I wanted a hobby too! So I got a sketch pad and some colored pencils.
Between calls I toss out these sketches. When I think I have a pretty good
handle on something I start a larger drawing or Acrylic painting at home. I
mostly want to capture what I love about nature, which is what I saw while
laying in the grass and poking under the bushes when I grew up in Central
Florida. My drawings remind me of times when I could spend a hour just
watching an ant bed or following a beetle across a log or waiting with a
heron for a fish or a snake to come by.
I have never "studied" art or art techniques. I've done a little 3d
computer graphics and animations, but nothing significant. I've been reading
library books on drawing and acrylic painting over the last month or so but
not with any regularity. If you have seen my web page you have seen almost
every thing I have drawn (excluding about an equal number of really
tentative practice pages). I have two larger, more finished drawings, a few
paintings, and several fairly large projects that are barely started.
I would love to get more light into my art. Bright sunshine and cool
shade. Reflections off the water. I've got a long way to go.
So far, most of the feed back I have gotten is of the "Wow! That looks
really good!" variety from family and friends. I don't trust it and I can't
improve my work with it. I want someone who can say, "You know, you really
cluttered that one up." or "I don't see a story here. What's supposed to be
happening?" The things I sometimes tell myself, but since I don't know what
I am talking about...
I probably should ante up for an art class or something. But at this
point I am not sure that my talent warrants laying out the time and cash for
all that. If it looks like I have the eye and hand to do real art, I might
want to go forward with lessons and maybe shows. I also wouldn't mind making
a few buck at illustration or something. If I could make a couple of hundred
dollars I would quit my job and spend more time with my family. But that's
just a fantasy at this point. I wouldn't even know how to go about finding a
job drawing but those friends and family all tell me they exist.
If you've read this far, you are bored. I hope that it fills the gaps
mentioned above though.
Andrew D
ArtE...@NOSPAM.concentric.BLOCK.net wrote:
+Captain Pedantic wrote:
+>
+> What a shame.
+
+Exactly! It's really bad.
+Sad but true.
+
+
+> However, I always say that if you want interesting, on topic,
+> constructive posts on a NG, post some.
+
+Ohhh!!! Attempts had been made already. -- Nothing!
+Such conversations either end up quickly without anything productive,
+or people turn to personal attacks at once.
+No objectivity or endeavour to be impersonal and sober.
Art has become political. It's the conservatives versus the
individualists. But, just like politics, it is possible to discuss issues
and ignore the mud slinging, it's just that the political arguments never
end whereas a request for constructive advice doesn't usually lead to a
never-ending discussion.
Andrew D
Pedantic" <None....@Thank.you.anyway.com> wrote:
+"Andrew D" <right@the_end.of.my_tether> wrote :
[snip]
+> In order to give a more appropriate "critique" of your work, people really
+> need to know how long you've been at it, what you hope to achieve in terms
+> of style, genre, technique etc, your influences and how you've gone about
+> learning to date.
[snip]
+ I would love to get more light into my art. Bright sunshine and cool
+shade. Reflections off the water. I've got a long way to go.
Personally (oops, here goes) I'd say coloured pencils would have to be on
eof the toughest mediums to use if you want to get more realism (tonal
lights and shades) because it takes so long to cover an area. Of course,
sitting at your office desk you probably have little option - unless your
boss is really understanding.
But the pencils can give you a feel for composition and shape - and colour
notes.
+So far, most of the feed back I have gotten is of the "Wow! That looks
+really good!" variety from family and friends. I don't trust it and I can't
+improve my work with it.
Friends and relatives are often too nice for their own good. And besides,
if it's better than what they can do then they probably *do* think it's
excellent.
+ I want someone who can say, "You know, you really
+cluttered that one up." or "I don't see a story here. What's supposed to be
+happening?" The things I sometimes tell myself, but since I don't know what
+I am talking about...
Join a local art society if you can and find people who share your ideas
on art. If they are doing work you consider to be bette rthan yours, then
listen to their advice. But even they can often be too careful and too
nice and not always helpful.
I personally don't like criticising other people's work because it's
difficult to know how they'll take it. But I have a few people who
willingly criticise my work and I know they are doing so constructively
and with the best of intentions. Some look monly at the obvious - subject,
colour etc while another looks for the underlying structure - tone, shape,
balance etc... I take on board what they say and either work with it or
ignore it depending on whether I feel they missed the point. Either way,
I'm not offended by it (a thick skin is a useful accessory).
The worst thing someone can say to me is "nice frame!"
+ I probably should ante up for an art class or something. But at this
+point I am not sure that my talent warrants laying out the time and cash for
+all that. If it looks like I have the eye and hand to do real art, I might
+want to go forward with lessons and maybe shows. I also wouldn't mind making
+a few buck at illustration or something. If I could make a couple of hundred
+dollars I would quit my job and spend more time with my family. But that's
+just a fantasy at this point. I wouldn't even know how to go about finding a
+job drawing but those friends and family all tell me they exist.
In my experience, illustration jobs are becoming scarcer as computers
become more powerful. What takes an hour to do with 3D software used to
take an airbrush artist the best part of a day, or week or more...
+ If you've read this far, you are bored. I hope that it fills the gaps
+mentioned above though.
To a degree. The problem, as I sort of said above, is that there are so
many different avenues in art from the ultra-realists who slavishly
recreate photographic images, through the impressionists, the modernists
and the abstract expressionists who are not interested in realistically
portraying any tangible objects, that it's unlikely you'll get consistent
advice from a group of people you don't know unless you can explain your
objectives and expectations. You don't necessarily need to work out where
you fit in yet but be aware that when people criticise, they will usually
do so with reference to their own artistic bias.
The rest of the stuff in this group is just politics.
Mon Sune
None....@Thank.you.anyway.com says...
>Maybe (like Marilyn said), more colors. And
>perhaps a firmer stroke as I gain confidence?
Taking a contrary position to Marilyn's, I
would advise you to do a LOT of drawing in
black and white ONLY. Learn how to depict
REAL things you see before you in B&W. Even in
your work environment you can choose objects to
make a simple still life arrangement - stapler,
scissors, coffee cup, etc. Or bring
objects to work that you can draw in your
'spare' time.
Try pen and ink as well as ordinary pencil.
Don't worry about
erasures - work spontaneously, letting those
lines that are "wrong" remain. Look at sketches
by many old master artists and you'll often
see multiple lines as the artist searches for
just the right one while refining the image.
Learning to depict in B&W will teach you about
contrast - which is the thing most of the others
are calling a weakness in your color renderings.
Captain Pedantic
"Andrew D" <right@the_end.of.my_tether> wrote :
>
> Personally (oops, here goes) I'd say coloured pencils would have to be on
> eof the toughest mediums to use if you want to get more realism (tonal
> lights and shades) because it takes so long to cover an area. Of course,
> sitting at your office desk you probably have little option - unless your
> boss is really understanding.
Yes, hard to get permission to set up the oils in my cubicle.
> Join a local art society if you can and find people who share your ideas
> on art. If they are doing work you consider to be bette rthan yours, then
> listen to their advice. But even they can often be too careful and too
> nice and not always helpful.
Maybe I will. The problem is I work nights. Maybe I can find a retired
folks art club of some sort, you know, in the early afternoon before
shuffle-board...
> The worst thing someone can say to me is "nice frame!"
Heh!
> In my experience, illustration jobs are becoming scarcer as computers
> become more powerful. What takes an hour to do with 3D software used to
> take an airbrush artist the best part of a day, or week or more...
Well, I can do both, but I see what you mean. However, I find that now
that everyone and their cousin has a copy of photoshop, some people are
turning back to physical art as a sort of elite thing.
> You don't necessarily need to work out where
> you fit in yet but be aware that when people criticise, they will usually
> do so with reference to their own artistic bias.
That's OK, I promise to read with my artistic bias firmly in place...
Captain Pedantic
"Mon Sune" <mo...@noemailever.com> wrote :
>
> Learning to depict in B&W will teach you about
> contrast - which is the thing most of the others
> are calling a weakness in your color renderings.
Thanks, I will take that advise.
defeated
>
> Here is my link, hope you enjoy my sketches.
>
> http://home.cfl.rr.com/rockledge/Drawings1.htm
I did, very nice. I especially liked the ants.
~angela
Captain Pedantic
"defeated" <sh00ti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6062f19.02071...@posting.google.com...
Thank you. I tried to find out what kind of ants those are, they used to
be all over but now I think the fire ants have supplanted them. We used to
call them grandfather ants because they move so slow and just seem really
old.
Captain Pedantic
"Dan Fox" <danf...@yahoo.com> wrote :
>
> - get instruction if you can. It varies greatly in quality, but try to get
> the best you can find.
That might really be my next step.
As for natural talent, thanks, but... do you happen to know a way to get
rich and famous on raw untrained natural talent? That would make
everything -so- much easier...
> - drawing books are not too useful, except for learning the basics of
> perspective.
I was sort of thinking the same thing but didn't want to say anything
... They are all just "Draw a box and put a circle inside it and Oh, BTW,
look what I drew!"
> - go to museums and look at master paintings from all eras. Go often and
> look a lot. Study what they did. Draw from them. Make sketches of just the
> major forms in paintings to see how the masters handled composition. Do it
> over and over.
The best I can do around here is peruse the library's coffee table books
on art... or the framing shop's posters. Around here, culture is what
happens in the back of the refrigerator while you aren't looking.
> - get a general art history book and read it, or take a course if you can.
>
> - Thinking about galleries and selling is premature at this point. Just
> work on your stuff.
I'm OK with that.
> Good luck!
Thanks!
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
Marilyn is right he needs the confident stroke. (I have declared her the
technician)
Multiple lines in the old masters is not a search you dim wit it provides a
softer passage between enclosures .
If he works spontaneously then he will develop a dancing line which becomes
a firm line you twit - which is exactly what I said in a previous post.
dealing with black and white reduces images to strong structures you nit
wit. Contrast deals with simultaneous contrast not the actual creation of
form but an aspect of it.
this guy will learn nothing from you - you don't know anything
Keith
Mon Sune <mo...@noemailever.com> wrote in message
news:3d2d7...@oracle.zianet.com...
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
cut your balls off.
keith
Captain Pedantic <None....@Thank.you.anyway.com> wrote in message
news:pZ7X8.9082$XH.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
defeated
>
> Thank you. I tried to find out what kind of ants those are, they used to
> be all over but now I think the fire ants have supplanted them. We used to
> call them grandfather ants because they move so slow and just seem really
> old.
Heh, I wish we had some grandfather ants...around here, all we have
are nasty, warlike fireants, and I'm torn between being impressed with
their highly advanced little culture and wanting to destroy them.
~angela
Leigh
"keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com" <scot...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:LomX8.2773$pxc...@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> How can you take a contrary position to Marilyn's ?
Possibly because there is more than one approach to this critique?
> Marilyn is right he needs the confident stroke. (I have declared her the
> technician)
Well and good, she complimented the drawings and the drawer in fine fashion.
And offered a possible area to work on.
>
> Multiple lines in the old masters is not a search you dim wit it provides
a
> softer passage between enclosures .
>
> If he works spontaneously then he will develop a dancing line which
becomes
> a firm line you twit - which is exactly what I said in a previous post.
>
>
> dealing with black and white reduces images to strong structures you nit
> wit. Contrast deals with simultaneous contrast not the actual creation of
> form but an aspect of it.
>
> this guy will learn nothing from you - you don't know anything
>
> Keith
What a gentle soul you are, Keith! And smart, too! Such brilliant use of
your many abilities exhibited in your post.
I would also suggest that the Captain work in black and white for a period
of time, an Ebony pencil will go the distance in value and line quality.
Then move on to color in some form other than pencil. Watercolor crayons or
oil pastel would make strong color statements and will be suitable for use
under the job condition described.
There really is no use posting if you don't have something constructive to
say, you guys... and it really isn't that hard to come up with *something!
Jack's response is copied below because it contains some good information
that seems to have been overlooked.
L.
Captain Pedantic
"Leigh" <le...@nomail.com> wrote :
>
> I would also suggest that the Captain work in black and white for a period
> of time, an Ebony pencil will go the distance in value and line quality.
I intend to do both. I will do some serious practice in black while also
doing some more color work, adding layers and blending. I think I can
compartmentalize my efforts.
> There really is no use posting if you don't have something constructive to
> say, you guys... and it really isn't that hard to come up with *something!
I have found that liberal use of filters and/or simply ignoring
unpleasant people (or unpleaasant sections of posts) can revive and even
rehabilitate whole groups.
Andrew D
Pedantic" <None....@Thank.you.anyway.com> wrote:
+"Andrew D" <right@the_end.of.my_tether> wrote :
+>
+> Personally (oops, here goes) I'd say coloured pencils would have to be on
+> eof the toughest mediums to use if you want to get more realism (tonal
+> lights and shades) because it takes so long to cover an area. Of course,
+> sitting at your office desk you probably have little option - unless your
+> boss is really understanding.
+
+ Yes, hard to get permission to set up the oils in my cubicle.
Thinking about it though.... you could try using pastel pencils on
coloured paper. This way you can choose a neutral tone meaning you only
need deal with highlights and shadows. Working on whilte paper you are
always going to struggle to get highlights working in a short time.
The Walter T. Foster series of "How to Draw" books used this method very
effectively - especially his books on animals.
[snip]
+> In my experience, illustration jobs are becoming scarcer as computers
+> become more powerful. What takes an hour to do with 3D software used to
+> take an airbrush artist the best part of a day, or week or more...
+
+ Well, I can do both, but I see what you mean. However, I find that now
+that everyone and their cousin has a copy of photoshop, some people are
+turning back to physical art as a sort of elite thing.
Perhaps, but commercial realities mean that computer art will dominate in
a big way. Few companies are going to pay you a weeks wages to do with an
airbrush what a college graduate can do in an hour with a computer. Sad
perhaps, but true.
+> You don't necessarily need to work out where
+> you fit in yet but be aware that when people criticise, they will usually
+> do so with reference to their own artistic bias.
+
+ That's OK, I promise to read with my artistic bias firmly in place...
Then you're in the right place :)
Andrew D
"keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com" <scot...@rogers.com> wrote:
+Mon Sune <mo...@noemailever.com> wrote in message
+news:3d2d7...@oracle.zianet.com...
+> In article <am8X8.5624$DS.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>,
+> None....@Thank.you.anyway.com says...
+>
+> >Maybe (like Marilyn said), more colors. And
+> >perhaps a firmer stroke as I gain confidence?
+>
+> Taking a contrary position to Marilyn's, I
+> would advise you to do a LOT of drawing in
+> black and white ONLY. Learn how to depict
+> REAL things you see before you in B&W. Even in
+> your work environment you can choose objects to
+> make a simple still life arrangement - stapler,
+> scissors, coffee cup, etc. Or bring
+> objects to work that you can draw in your
+> 'spare' time.
+>
+> Try pen and ink as well as ordinary pencil.
+> Don't worry about
+> erasures - work spontaneously, letting those
+> lines that are "wrong" remain. Look at sketches
+> by many old master artists and you'll often
+> see multiple lines as the artist searches for
+> just the right one while refining the image.
+>
+> Learning to depict in B&W will teach you about
+> contrast - which is the thing most of the others
+> are calling a weakness in your color renderings.
+How can you take a contrary position to Marilyn's ?
+Marilyn is right he needs the confident stroke. (I have declared her the
+technician)
+Multiple lines in the old masters is not a search you dim wit it provides a
+softer passage between enclosures .
Why are the two mutually exclusive? Why can't the search for the right
line also lead to a softer edge? Perhaps you have a first-hand reference
where it is explained that there was no search, only softness?
+If he works spontaneously then he will develop a dancing line which becomes
+a firm line you twit - which is exactly what I said in a previous post.
+dealing with black and white reduces images to strong structures you nit
+wit. Contrast deals with simultaneous contrast not the actual creation of
+form but an aspect of it.
+this guy will learn nothing from you - you don't know anything
Working in one colour will force the Captain to consider tones rather than
colours and as he progresses he will find ways of reducing the complexity
of subtle tonal shifts by grouping similar tones together. Since he's
admitted to wanting more light and shade in his drawings, and seems to
lean toward realism, working tonally will give him a good start. From one
colour, he can progess to two colours, one light and one dark, on a
neutral paper.
I assume many of the drawings are done more from memory than with
reference to books or photos (could be wrong) and this won't help with the
battle to capture light. If he want's light he needs tonal contrasts (and
warm/cool contrasts for colour realism) and if he hasn't looked at
subjects paying attention to contrasts rather than shapes then he's
unlikely to remember those contrasts.
To get a more "confident line" he may be better off getting some huge
sheets of paper and some charcoal, setting up a well lit still life (or
whatever) and knocking out five minute drawings.
Captain Pedantic
"Andrew D" <right@the_end.of.my_tether> wrote :
>
> I assume many of the drawings are done more from memory than with
> reference to books or photos (could be wrong) and this won't help with the
> battle to capture light. If he want's light he needs tonal contrasts (and
> warm/cool contrasts for colour realism) and if he hasn't looked at
> subjects paying attention to contrasts rather than shapes then he's
> unlikely to remember those contrasts.
Yep. That's the problem with most of what I put on the web page. But at
home, I have reference photos and often go out in the sun to see what really
happens.
> To get a more "confident line" he may be better off getting some huge
> sheets of paper and some charcoal, setting up a well lit still life (or
> whatever) and knocking out five minute drawings.
That sounds like fun.
Andrew D
Fox) wrote:
+Captain -
+
+If these are your first sketches, it is clear that you have real natural
+talent. I would advise:
[snip]
+- drawing books are not too useful, except for learning the basics of
+perspective.
"Drawing on the right side of the brain" deals a lot with looking at
negative shapes and relationships. I haven't used it but I've seen it
used. It seems to have its uses.
Andrew D
Fox) wrote:
+"Captain Pedantic" <None....@Thank.you.anyway.com> wrote:
+> "Andrew D" <right@the_end.of.my_tether> wrote :
+> >
+> > I assume many of the drawings are done more from memory than with
+> > reference to books or photos (could be wrong) and this won't help with
+> > the battle to capture light. If he want's light he needs tonal
+> > contrasts (and warm/cool contrasts for colour realism) and if he hasn't
+> > looked at subjects paying attention to contrasts rather than shapes
+> > then he's unlikely to remember those contrasts.
+
+Captain - I forgot to mention: There is one excellent book you should buy
+and use: The Natural Way to Draw, by Nicolaides. It is a bit dated in some
+ways, but the principles are sound. Following his method closely is
+time-consuming, but you will certainly learn to draw. If you can't invest
+the time for the full method, you can work on it piecemeal and gain a lot.
+
+Don't know if the book is in print, but try to get the hardcover (at used
+book sites) if you possibly can - you'll be referring to it for a long
+time.
There's a short summary at:
http://www.sierratel.com/robprod/nicolaidespg.htm
(Keith - don't look, you'll only get angry)
and the book is listed at Amazon - new & used.
mdeli
>
>Captain - I forgot to mention: There is one excellent book you should buy
Yes, but before you buy it check out Fox's web site and see how much
it has helped his work.
> It is a bit dated in some
>ways, but the principles are sound. Following his method closely is
>time-consuming, but you will certainly learn to draw.
-at least as well Fox.
>Dan
>www.danfoxart.com
Tired of Modern Art? Check out my web page
fcorliss
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/drawing-together
Marilyn L
"Captain Pedantic" <None....@Thank.you.anyway.com> wrote in message
news:y37X8.8264$XH.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "Noumenon" <ArtE...@concentric.net> wrote :
> >
> > however if you art is just good or OK - do not expect to hear anything
(!)
> >
> > Because the only fuel/stimulus this newsgroup seems to be running on is
> > NEGATIVE emotions derived from never-ending, stupid & pointless "flame"
> wars
> > and abusive gloating tirades ...
>
>
> What a shame. I have been reading through some of the past posts and I
> am afraid your comments are not completely unfounded.
>
> However, I always say that if you want interesting, on topic,
> constructive posts on a NG, post some.
>
Gladys Canby
sh00ti...@hotmail.com says...
>Heh, I wish we had some grandfather ants...around here, all we have
>are nasty, warlike fireants, and I'm torn between being impressed with
>their highly advanced little culture and wanting to destroy them.
I lived for 12 years in Austin, TX. During
the first few years I couldn't step out in
the yard (grassy yard) without suffering
fire ant bites. In the latter years the fire
ants had disappeared following an 'invasion'
by geckos (sp?) - little lizards that find
their way into the walls of the house.
Putting up with them was a minor annoyance
for having rid the property of the fire ants.
Captain Pedantic
"Dan Fox" <danf...@yahoo.com> wrote :
>
> Captain - I forgot to mention: There is one excellent book you should buy
> ways, but the principles are sound. Following his method closely is
Thanks, I'll add it to the list. So far the list is growing 328 times
faster than I can read.
Captain Pedantic
"fcorliss" <fcor...@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:IYAX8.161873$vq.82...@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> Two sites that I think you will find very helpful and supportive are:
> http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/drawing-together
>
> www.wetcanvas.com
Thanks, they -do- look interesting.
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
Check out the illustration on page 18 upper left - I think it's great.
keith
Andrew D <right@the_end.of.my_tether> wrote in message
news:right-12070...@i160-061.nv.iinet.net.au...
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
People are giving the guy advice and all you can do is provide a smart ass
remark.
keith
I know that I provide smart ass remarks , but I am smart. (k)
mdeli <n...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:3d2e63a7...@news1.on.sympatico.ca...
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
reason. I develops strength of design. Interpret things in terms of a light
side and a dark side - don't concern yourself with the half tones at this
point.
M.S. recommended using objects on your desk - that is a good recommendation.
If you are going to use objects on your desk to create a still life - don't
forget to consider Marilyn's advice about variety of shapes.
keith (I feel in a reasonable mood at this moment)
Leigh <le...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:uis9bcf...@corp.supernews.com...
keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com
> unpleasant people (or unpleaasant sections of posts) can revive and even
> rehabilitate whole groups."
Now if more people would take that advice and practice it - people like
Andy, M.S., Marilyn, Keith, Mani - just to name a few - we would have the
most boring over polite group on earth. We may as well be living in a
nunnery.
keith
Captain Pedantic <None....@Thank.you.anyway.com> wrote in message
news:gSpX8.15049$XH.3...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
mdeli
fantacies about me I suspect it would still be his usual failure.
Check what his pedigree and success is based on at his web site. (free
advetising for you Dan)
(Dan Pedigreed Fox) wrote:
>> Mani your obsessing over Fox: can you not come up with something new.
>> People are giving the guy advice and all you can do is provide a smart
>> ass remark.
>
>He's jealous. I have art degrees and some measure of success - no big deal,
>of course, but to someone who has neither and is stewing over it in old age
>it is apparently significant. Before usenet and the web I'm guessing he had
>no life at all - now he's got this tiny corner of the world. Let him have
>his tantrums and digs: it's all he's got. (Jeez, how'd you like to be his
>wife and have to listen to rants about The Artzy Fartzies over dinner every
>night!
Tantrums?
>My God, Andy, you have got to be the biggest fucking imbecile ever to write nonsense in this group. Mani seems astute by comparison. Learn some art history, you cretinous douchebag, so you can at least be vaguely aware of different artistic styles - like realism and abstraction, for example.
Andrew D
+Andrew D <right@the_end.of.my_tether> wrote in message
+news:right-12070...@i160-061.nv.iinet.net.au...
[snip]
+> There's a short summary at:
+> http://www.sierratel.com/robprod/nicolaidespg.htm
+> (Keith - don't look, you'll only get angry)
+I have owned a copy for years. (1969 version)
+Check out the illustration on page 18 upper left - I think it's great.
And you're not angered or concerned by statements like:...
"When children receive adequate instruction in drawing, their work shows
it! The reason most elementary school children do not learn to draw is
that many of their teachers never learned to draw during their formative
years. Teacher - learn to draw!"
Andrew D
"keith o'connor (tinmangallery.com" <scot...@rogers.com> wrote:
+I like your comment: "simply ignoring
+> unpleasant people (or unpleaasant sections of posts) can revive and even
+> rehabilitate whole groups."
+
+Now if more people would take that advice and practice it - people like
+Andy, M.S., Marilyn, Keith, Mani - just to name a few - we would have the
+most boring over polite group on earth. We may as well be living in a
+nunnery.
Is that a Freudian thing you've got happening there Keith?
Living in a nunnery indeed! ;)