HELP With New Web Site Art From Family Estate
Fran
I am an individual, not a dealer, gallery or artist. I have just
completed this portion of my web site, showing various pieces of art
from my Grandparent's estate. I would appreciate any feedback in
regards to individual paintings, the artists, value of the painting,
suggested places to sell (other than eBay), people to contact who
might be interested, my presentation, etc. I have given all the
information that I know. There is a lot of information missing. Maybe
you can fill in some blanks?
My website can be found at <a
href="http://users3.ev1.net/~adagioblue/ArtWork.html">http://users3.ev1.net/~adagioblue/ArtWork.html</a>
This is my first attempt at producing a website and it has been quite
a task, considering that I have had no formal training. I would
appreciate any comments, good or bad (as long as they are
constructive).
Thank you in advance,
Fran
Werner H. Kramarsky
36487658.0210...@posting.google.com, "Fran" <adagi...@ev1.net>
wrote:
Can't seem to open your link
Noumenon
should be:
http://users3.ev1.net/~adagioblue/ArtWorks.html
-=| NOUMENON |=-
Ted E. Behr
says...
>I have given all the
>information that I know.
When I opened the web page I was advised
I'd have to download yet another program
in order to view the site. I am not going
to do that so your site will go unvisited
by me, and no telling how many others
who won't bother.
I would be very interested in seeing what
you have to offer otherwise. I was instrumental
in placing much of the Pompeo Coppini document
collection into the Barker Texas History Center
some years ago. As a graduate of both UT Austin
and UT San Antonio with degrees in art, I have
an ongoing interest in all matters related to
Texas arts/artists, and architects too.
Fran
> Hello All,
>
> I am an individual, not a dealer, gallery or artist. I have just
> completed this portion of my web site, showing various pieces of art
> from my Grandparent's estate. I would appreciate any feedback in
> regards to individual paintings, the artists, value of the painting,
> suggested places to sell (other than eBay), people to contact who
> might be interested, my presentation, etc. I have given all the
> information that I know. There is a lot of information missing. Maybe
> you can fill in some blanks?
>
> My website can be found at
http://users3.ev1.net/~adagioblue/ArtWorks.html
> This is my first attempt at producing a website and it has been quite
> a task, considering that I have had no formal training. I would
> appreciate any comments, good or bad (as long as they are
> constructive).
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Fran
Sorry. Not only did I enter it wrong, It should have been plural, "ArtWorks".
chris
Not to put too fine a point on it, but there are almost no genre paintings
in the that collection. Lots of still lives & landscapes, etc, though.
Genre paintings are generally scenes from everyday life - it reached a high
point in the Dutch Golden Age with artists like Steen, Vermeer, Hals. The
form is typical in the chaotic conditions one finds in burgeoning
individualistic societies - like Holland at the time - check out Schama's
"An Embarrassment of Riches" - or the pre-Civil war US.
But I do agree with you about the value of the work (though one is always
surprised at what sells, and for how much)..
Cheers;
Chris
"Dan Fox" <danf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20021016131935.091$l...@newsreader.com...
> At a quick look these seem to be mostly genre paintings and would have
> little or no value. However, I suggest you hire a professional appraiser
to
> come and evaluate them, as this is the only real way to determine their
> value.
> --
> Dan
> http://www.danfoxart.com
Jiri Borsky
>
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Dan Fox wrote:
>
> > Marilyn -
> >
> > I'm not sure. When I thought about it it seemed to me that scenes of family
> > life in certain periods were called genre paintings, as Chris said.
> > Interesting little topic, though!!
> >
>
> Chris is taking it from a history book, I think.
> Anyway it could be a vernacular
> difference, US-Canada.
I go along with Chris (that's how Genre is generally perceived here
in the UK).
Dan Fox is more of a man for admitting his initial mistake.
Jiri Borsky
chris
FWIW, The artlex definition is pretty standard (http://www.artlex.com) , and
just checking through TJ Clark's "The Absolute Bourgeois", he uses it in the
same sense (the painting of common life).
Certainly "genre" means just "type", - for example, one can easily say
there are many genres of painting. However, with respect to the notion of
"genre art" the definition is pretty specific. For an visual presentation of
the idea, go to the National Gallery site (http://www.nga.gov ) and do a
site search on "genre", and cruise through the images...(it's a neat site,
btw.) Or a google search on "genre painting" turns up very similar results -
such as an article I think you'd enjoy on genre painting and George Eliot::
http://www.victorianweb.org/eliot/hw/7.html
Anyway, sorry to be a prick about this! It just happens to be an art form
I'm fascinated by, and have been since I was quite young, partly for the art
itself, and partly for the art as a social barometer.
Relatedly, it's also interesting to draw the line between genre and kitsch -
sometimes it's hard to do! - I think it was the National Post critic Robert
Fulford who pointed out that one of the hallmarks of kitsch is mendacity
(the article was with respect to Krieghoff, but applies equally well to
Kincaid's populated Christmas scenes and a good deal of Nazi pseudo-genre
art).
Cheers;
Chris
"Dan Fox" <danf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20021016173139.484$Y...@newsreader.com...
> Marilyn -
>
> I'm not sure. When I thought about it it seemed to me that scenes of
family
> life in certain periods were called genre paintings, as Chris said.
> Interesting little topic, though!!
>
>
> Marilyn Welch <mwe...@islandnet.com> wrote:
> > x-no-archive: yes
> >
> > Genre:
> >
> > We used the term in Quebec to mean a type of painting of any date.
> > French 'genre': genus, kind, family; way...
> >
> > With reference to paintings it sorts them into landscape, still-life,
> > abstraction,
> > narrative, etc.
> >
> > Online dictionary:
> > Main Entry: genre
> > Pronunciation: 'zh=E4n-r&,
> > 'zh=E4[^n=
> > ]-;
> > 'zh=E4[^n]r; 'j=E4n-r&
> > Function: noun
> > Etymology: French, from Middle
> > Frenc=
> > h,
> > kind, gender --
> > more at GENDER
> > Date: 1770
> > 1 : a category of artistic,
musical,
> > = or
> > literary composition
> > characterized by a particular
style,
> > = form,
> > or content
> > 2 : KIND, SORT
> > 3 : painting that depicts scenes or
> > = events
> > from everyday life
> > usually realistically
> > _______________
> >
> > I've heard 16th-17th century Dutch still life paintings described
> > as "vanitas" which defines a 'genre' (still life) of painting within an
> > historical period. The word 'genre' is not confined to an historical
> > peri= od.
> >
> > Dan's right.
> > ____________________________
> >
> > chris wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Dan;
> > > Not to put too fine a point on it, but there are almost no genre
> > > painti=
> > ngs
> > > in the that collection. Lots of still lives & landscapes, etc, though.
> > >
> > > Genre paintings are generally scenes from everyday life - it reached
> > > a=
> > high
> > > point in the Dutch Golden Age with artists like Steen, Vermeer, Hals.
> > > T=
> > he
> > > form is typical in the chaotic conditions one finds in burgeoning
> > > individualistic societies - like Holland at the time - check out
> > > Schama=
> > 's
> > > "An Embarrassment of Riches" - or the pre-Civil war US.
> > >
> > > But I do agree with you about the value of the work (though one is
> > > alwa=
> > ys
> > > surprised at what sells, and for how much)..
> > >
> > > Cheers;
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > "Dan Fox" <danf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:20021016131935.091$l...@newsreader.com...
> > > > At a quick look these seem to be mostly genre paintings and would
> > > > hav=
> > e
> > > > little or no value. However, I suggest you hire a professional
> > > > apprai=
> > ser
> > > to
> > > > come and evaluate them, as this is the only real way to determine
> > > > the=
> > ir
> > > > value.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > adagi...@ev1.net (Fran) wrote:
> > > > > adagi...@ev1.net (Fran) wrote in message
> > > > > news:<36487658.0210...@posting.google.com>...
> > > > > > Hello All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am an individual, not a dealer, gallery or artist. I have just
> > > > > > completed this portion of my web site, showing various pieces of
> > > > > > =
> > art
> > > > > > from my Grandparent's estate. I would appreciate any feedback in
> > > > > > regards to individual paintings, the artists, value of the
> > > > > > painti=
> > ng,
> > > > > > suggested places to sell (other than eBay), people to contact
> > > > > > who=
> >
> > > > > > might be interested, my presentation, etc. I have given all the
> > > > > > information that I know. There is a lot of information missing.
> > > > > > M=
> > aybe
> > > > > > you can fill in some blanks?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My website can be found at
> > > > >
> > > > > http://users3.ev1.net/~adagioblue/ArtWorks.html
> > > > >
> > > > > > This is my first attempt at producing a website and it has been
> > > > > > q=
> > uite
> > > > > > a task, considering that I have had no formal training. I would
> > > > > > appreciate any comments, good or bad (as long as they are
> > > > > > constructive).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you in advance,
> > > > > > Fran
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry. Not only did I enter it wrong, It should have been plural,
> > > > > "ArtWorks".
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dan
> > > > http://www.danfoxart.com
>
> --
> Dan
> http://www.danfoxart.com
Fran
I'm sorry, I can't imagine what program you would have been told to
download in order to see my web site. I feel the exact same way about
having to download a program in order to see a web page, and don't
EVEN get me started on pop up windows. There is nothing unusual or
special about the site, no Java, Macromedia, Shockwave, etc, not even
a .pdf file. I don't even know how to write in those things. I did
enter the link incorrectly the first time, but even if you click that,
all you get is a 404 error. With your background, I would really like
to hear your input. I hope you will please try again. The correct link
is
http://users3.ev1.net/~adagioblue/ArtWorks.html
If this link still does not work for you, I would appreciate some
feedback as to where you hit this roadblock and what program you are
being asked to download. I wrote the main page with MS Word 2001. The
artist pages were collected with PhotoPage then fine tuned with Word.
I use MS Internet Explorer 5.1.6 and a Macintosh, but the site has
been proofed with Windows 2000 Pro and Netscape 6. The only problem I
have found is that my hit counters don't work in Netscape.
If you do try again, and are successful, you might especially enjoy
the page on Samuel Gideon, who was an art professor at UT and a close
friend of my Grandfather's.
PS. Since you don't allow emails, I am posting this on the board.
Thank You for your interest,
Fran
Te...@noemailever.com (Ted E. Behr) wrote in message news:<3dad6...@oracle.zianet.com>.
Ted E. Behr
>I go along with Chris (that's how Genre is generally perceived here
>in the UK).
I've always used 'genre' synonymously with 'category.'
But resorting to my oft-quoted authority on
semantics, etc, I find that is Webster's Collegiate
first instance of use (1) 'category...
characterized by style, form or content."
(2) 'PAINTING that depicts scenes or events
from everday life usu. realistically.'
The emphasis in the (2) on PAINTING is mine.
Ted E. Behr
adagi...@ev1.net says...
>
>Ted,
>
>I'm sorry, I can't imagine what program you would have been told to
>download in order to see my web site.
I am using IE version 6.x and I get the message in
a pop-up box that says "In order to view this page
correctly you need to download and install:
Vector Graphic Rendering (VML)
After returning to the site, and ignoring this
message, I find that I'm able to view the
art work just fine anyway. So it's apparently
some glitch that matters little. I'm not sure
what the opening page would look like otherwise.
I see no images embedded on the first page,
and seem to be able to read all the text, and
the links work.
>With your background, I would really like
>to hear your input. I hope you will please try again.
I went through most of the photos that you have
posted and the index of artist names. I recognized
none of the names and the art work is unimpressive
- to me anyway. I would be very surprised if it has
any great value, even as antique. But there are
some very reputable "estate auctioneers" in Austin/S.A.
who could advise you on an auction that might bring
in the money and get things resolved with a minimum
of fuss on your part. Alternatively, there are a
few galleries around that specialize in antigue
art which might take on the works on commission.
Some of the metal plaques look like things I've
seen that were commercially produced similar to
what Franklin Mint produces today.
>If you do try again, and are successful, you might especially enjoy
>the page on Samuel Gideon, who was an art professor at UT and a close
>friend of my Grandfather's.
Gideon was gone by the time I studied at UT, from
1986 to 1988. With an earlier degree in Eng'g from
UT El Paso (Tex Western), I only needed art courses
in order to complete the BFA requirements. I then
went to UT San Antonio to do my graduate work (90-91).
While in S.A. I was invited to live in the Coppini
Academy of Fine Art building as caretaker, and
there became even more familiar with some of the
landmark public commissions around the state.
About UT Austin and it's architects...
I am very fond of the early architectural
styles embodied in the "original forty acres" and
a few of the additional buildings that kept to the
Cret style. I think you'll agree that the U went
seriously astray in the fifties, and later, when
it allowed the dull uninteresting buildings of that
generation to be built. Thankfully the current trend
is a return to architecturally interesting structures
that more closely harmonize with the "40 acres."
I look forward to a return visit to Austin in 2005
when the Blanton Fine Arts Museum is scheduled to
be opened to the public.
Jiri Borsky
Obviously a lot depends on context.
To use another example, the word *icon* will mean different things
to a computer specialist, and to an art historian.
Jiri Borsky
Fran
I am so glad to hear how you enjoy the "Original Forty Acres". Your
reference to it being the "Cret style" has been the Family Project
ever since my Grandfather died. What you are referring to, the
Colonial Spanish style, red tile roof, shape of the buildings, color
of brick, etc., is not the "Cret" style, it is the "RL White" style.
That, and the final Tower design was his, not Crets. As Supervising
Architect for UT, my Grandfather was the one who recommended that UT
hire Cret to head up the Campus renovation project. Cret submitted 3
designs for the Tower to the BOR. They were very definately FRENCH (he
was born and educated in France). They were all refused. Then another
design was submitted, was accepted, and built. That specific design
was done by Robert Leon White. Even though he was Supervising
Architect, he was only a lowly UT graduate. Cret, on the other hand,
had cost UT a fortune to bring in, was schooled in the best European
colleges, had all the awards.... you get my drift??? POLITICS This
was in an era that if you worked for the State of Texas and didn't
vote Democrat, you were flat out of a job - and they KNEW exactly how
you voted.
There is a lot more to this story, but I don't know that you really
care, and this is not the forum for it. To the others in this group, I
apologize, but I could not pass up an opportunity to "set the record
straight". If you are interested in the truth, you may contact me
directly.
By the way, I misstated. I was going by the info my Grandmother wrote
on the painting, saying that Gideon was an art prof. He was actually
an architecture prof. UT is evidently starting to archive a lot of old
papers on the internet. I do regular searches for specific topics, and
in the last couple of months, a lot of new pages are showing up. ...
Well, I just deleted the last 15 minutes. Again, this is not the
forum.
Oh, the other... I have no idea what "VML" is. I just inserted the
images (jpg) to the Word doc, and they stuck. There are 3 photos: RL
White, Mrs RL White (both circa early 1930's), and the Tower w/
Littlefield Fountain.
I am certain that none of these items are "Franklin Mint" type. The
religious pair were originally from my Great Grandmother (1871-1963).
Thanks for your interest
Fran
Ted E. Behr
>I am so glad to hear how you enjoy the "Original Forty Acres". Your
>reference to it being the "Cret style" has been the Family Project
>ever since my Grandfather died. What you are referring to, the
>Colonial Spanish style, red tile roof, shape of the buildings, color
>of brick, etc., is not the "Cret" style, it is the "RL White" style.
>That, and the final Tower design was his, not Crets.
Well, that's not the propaganda line that's
been published by countless publications,
including this article from The Daily Texan,
UT's daily student newspaper. Cret's name
is the ONLY name mentioned, as you'll see:
http://www.utexas.edu/tours/mainbuilding/news/old-new/reflections.html
I have to wonder at your objectivity since it
is in defense of blood kin that you are
trying to 'set the record straight.'
As you so succinctly point out, I really don't
care who designed what. I love the design of
the old "Forty Acres" regardless of who was
actually responsible. I'll leave it to you and
others to undo historical inaccuracies.
I do hasten to thank you for putting me onto
some details of Austin history that I'd previously
been unaware of - Prof. Gideon's "Pembrose Castle"
as one example, led me to other articles on
Woolrich Castle (later Pease Estate). Interesting
stuff! I thought I was looking at the current UT
Chancellor's residence when I saw the Pease
Estate was up for sale by the State of Texas!
I later realized it's a not the same residence.
Thanks again.
Fran
Ted - I received your email and had time to quickly read it before I
went out of town for a few days. Now that I'm back, I went to answer
your email and find that it is missing. If you still have a copy,
could you resend? otherwise, please send your email address so I can
respond. Thanks, Adagioblue
Fran
> Well, that's not the propaganda line that's
> been published by countless publications,
> including this article from The Daily Texan,
> UT's daily student newspaper. Cret's name
> is the ONLY name mentioned, as you'll see:
>
> http://www.utexas.edu/tours/mainbuilding/news/old-new/reflections.html
I am quite familiar with this woman's thesis - I even have a copy of
it. Unfortunately, some of her information is correct, but jumbled,
and some of it is just flat wrong. She and mother have discussed the
discrepancies, but the thesis and other articles (many in The Texan)
had already been out for some time, not to mention all of the articles
by other authors (like the one in your link) who thought she was the
ultimate authority.
In one of her articles, she said his name was "James M. White" instead
of Robert Leon White. Most UT publications give my grandfather credit
for "bringing the Spanish Colonial style to the UT campus". She says
that "Cret's Spanish Colonial Revival style...was influenced...by Cass
Gilbert". She talks about the symbolic words and emblems carved into
the buildings, saying that Battle originated the schemes and Cret drew
them. The use of symbolic words and emblems was my grandfather's
signature, and used in every one of his buildings, on and off of
campus.
Then, there is the Handbook of Texas Online which has my grandmother's
maiden name as "Barker" instead of Baker, and says that my grandfather
took a leave of absence, but not that it was in order to work on 7
large building projects for UT (one of which was the Tower).
> I have to wonder at your objectivity since it
> is in defense of blood kin that you are
> trying to 'set the record straight.'
I would be willing to bet that there is something that you know is
true, but you would be hard pressed to prove it. Something that, well,
it just is. You grew up with it, it's there, it always has been,
everyone you know, knows it. How do you prove something like that?
Mother lived it, and being very close to my grandparents, I lived it
also. It was an understood fact: my grandfather designed the Tower. I
never knew there was any question until after he died. He would have
lost his job had he protested UT's politics. When he died, my
grandmother tried to prove his claim by donating his drawings to UT,
which they have destroyed or ignored. It is not a matter of
objectivity.
> As you so succinctly point out, I really don't
> care who designed what. I love the design of
> the old "Forty Acres" regardless of who was
> actually responsible. I'll leave it to you and
> others to undo historical inaccuracies.
Thank You
Ted E. Behr
adagi...@ev1.net says...
For those following this thread, Fran and
I have taken this to private email so hopefully
the thread will now die here since it has little
if any relevance for most in this forum.
In respect of Fran's need to 'set the record
straight' on behalf of her grandfather and his
descendants, we can all think of examples where
'generals' get all the credit for the dirty
work actually done by the troops. That would seem
to be the case here.