Remembrance question/comments
Fett
much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years. Anyway, I have
a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a book
about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down. Is
there any significance to this?
Also, every time I watch this story I find more wrong with it. This viewing was
no excepton. How stupid is the dialogue when the Doctor tells the Captain that
there are two dalek factions and the Captain says "Are they both from outer
space?" No, ya friggin idiot, one group is from space and the other group is
from Germany. What bad dialogue. Other stuff that bothers me: The Doctor
charges up the bat, says how it has unimaginable power and no one is
responsible enough to use that power and how it can't go in the wrong hands (or
something like that). So, what does one do with an object like this? Why, they
put it in the hands of an irresponsible 16 year old of course. Smart move
there, Doc. Another thing was when the army had a guard on the teleporter in
the school basement. Er....why didn't they just blow the thing up? Oh, and
finally, there's the daleks that yell "exterminate" but don't actually shoot.
In the cliffhanger to ep 1, the dalek chases the Doctor up the stairs, is about
five feet from him and just keeps yelling "exterminate" yet doesn't shoot. They
do the same thing at the end of ep 2. Three daleks surround Ace, are all about
two feet from her, and just shout "exterminate" for a good 20 seconds but don't
shoot. What kind of crappy production is this? And all this stuff just came out
a casual viewing. Man, I hope the new series is better than this garbage.
-Fett
dburns
"Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
news:20041018023630...@mb-m13.aol.com...
> Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because
nothing
> much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years. Anyway, I
have
> a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a book
> about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down.
Is
> there any significance to this?
Yes, Ace needs Hooked On Phonics so she can learn to read. :-)
> Also, every time I watch this story I find more wrong with it. This
viewing was
> no excepton. How stupid is the dialogue when the Doctor tells the Captain
that
> there are two dalek factions and the Captain says "Are they both from
outer
> space?" No, ya friggin idiot, one group is from space and the other group
is
> from Germany. What bad dialogue. Other stuff that bothers me: The Doctor
> charges up the bat, says how it has unimaginable power and no one is
> responsible enough to use that power and how it can't go in the wrong
hands (or
> something like that). So, what does one do with an object like this?
If you have a filthy mind, I'm sure you can come up with a few uses for the
electrified bat. :-)
Triple Ade
"Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
news:20041018023630...@mb-m13.aol.com...
nothing
> much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years. Anyway, I
have
> a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a book
> about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down.
Is
> there any significance to this?
>
The book that's lent to Susan by Barbara in "An Unearthly Child" is about
the French revolution.
Re the rest of your points - fair do's, I enjoy it though!
Ade
Ian Moore
> Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because nothing
> much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years. Anyway, I have
> a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a book
> about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down. Is
> there any significance to this?
I think it's a reference to Susan, at the same school, knowing more
than she should about the French Revolution in An unearthly Child.
Lance Parkin
> What kind of crappy production is this?
You're acting all surprised that there are a few plot
holes in a Doctor Who story, and that's a bit like
being surprised that it starts with the Doctor Who
music.
I'm not defending poor plotting - I don't think "the
Daleks shout 'exterminate', and they don't" is a plot
hole, but let's leave that be - but what's your
favourite story, and do you see any plot holes
in it? What - not at all?
Lance
Ian Moore
How about the fact that the woman scientist (Rachel?) refers to the
creature as a 'Dalek' even though the Doctor hasn't even mentioned the
word in her presence.
Okay, so he shouts 'Oi Dalek, don't you recognise your mortal enemy?'
while it's chasing him around the junkyard, but for Rachel to a) hear
him, and b) infer that 'Dalek' is the name of the species, is a bit of
a stretch and is plain fanboy revisionism. It's a script error.
Still, it happens to even the best stories. It's like that bit in
Caves of Androzani. 'Morgus said that Spectrox is the most valuable
substance in the universe' says the Doctor. Except Morgus doesn't say
anything of the sort...
Alan S. Wales
>Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because nothing
>much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years. Anyway, I
>have
>a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a book
>about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down. Is
>there any significance to this?
Apparently that is the same book that Susan was reading and pointing out
historical errors in "An Unearthly Child". So I guess that is supposed to be
Susan's desk at Coal Hill School.
>Also, every time I watch this story I find more wrong with it. This viewing
>was
>no excepton.
I watched this story about a month ago. Checked the DVD out of the local
library. There are so many things to find fault with. I guess the most jarring
thing for me was the lightning bolts coming from the fingertips of the little
girl. Why would using her innocent human brain to program the Dalek battle
computer imbue her with electrical charges (and the ability to vanish at the
blink of an eye)?
Also, didn't anyone miss this child? She's hooked up to the Dalek computer or
wandering around by herself most of the story. Where are her parents? Doesn't
her teacher wonder where she's at?
Of course there is the instant change of driver scene in the van early in
episode 1. That's really believable.
We see the Dalek shuttle land in one of the later episodes. It creates a lot of
noise and even blows in the windows on the school. Yet apparently no one
noticed the first time they landed; there is only a burnt pattern on the
street.
I thought it odd that the military hands out anti-tank weapons to a strange man
with a brolly accompanied by a teenaged girl.
The Doctor says that Ace's boombox would be anachronistic in 1963, yet here is
Ace walking around with space shuttle patches on her jacket, carrying and
exploding bottles of nitro nine in front of the military, and toting an
aluminum baseball bat (not invented until the 70's) and no one takes notice.
BTW, where did Ace find an aluminum baseball bat?
Ace and Mike seemed to form a deep relationship in about 2 hours time; she
seems devastated when he turns out to be working for the Daleks.
Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried but not
when it is at the undertaker's shop?
The Doctor makes everybody slide down a wire onto the top of the Dalek shuttle.
They then enter a hatch on the top of the shuttle, go into the shuttle,
deactivate a Dalek, and the Doctor crosswires some optical circuits. Then they
walk out the front door of the shuttle. Why do Daleks have hatches on top of
their shuttles? When would they ever use such a device? Why do four other
people have to accompany the Doctor and be put in danger while he rewires some
circuits?
At the end of the story the only remaining Dalek can't contact any other
Daleks. Naturally, he begins spinning about and sparking, eventually self
destructing into a scant pile of ashes, not simply deactivating into a mush
pile of green slime. I wonder why it blew up? I wonder why it is so distressing
to a Dalek to be lonely?
Why do Doctor Who fans like this story?
One thing I did like about the story and something I never really noticed about
it before was the scene in the cafe when the Doctor is mulling over whether or
not he should destroy Skaro. He framed the question in the terms of "what if
there were no sugar in the world? What would be the repercussions?" as he
talked to the cook/server. I thought it was an effective scene.
--
"When you argue with a fool be sure he is not similarly occupied."
See how the pros get their power!
http://www.powrwrap.com/press.htm
Fett
>Date: 10/18/2004 4:18 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <109808748...@eunomia.uk.clara.net>
>
>
>"Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
>news:20041018023630...@mb-m13.aol.com...
>> Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because
>nothing
>> much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years. Anyway, I
>have
>> a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a book
>> about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down.
>Is
>> there any significance to this?
>>
>
>The book that's lent to Susan by Barbara in "An Unearthly Child" is about
>the French revolution.
Ooooooooooo, OK. I haven't seen that story in forever. Little stuff like that
is cool though.
>
>Re the rest of your points - fair do's, I >enjoy it though!
Gotcha.
-Fett
Fett
>Date: 10/18/2004 9:54 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <b45cb159.04101...@posting.google.com>
>
>fett...@aol.comedyshack (Fett) wrote in message
>news:<20041018023630...@mb-m13.aol.com>...
>>
>> Also, every time I watch this story I find more wrong with it.
>
>How about the fact that the woman scientist (Rachel?) refers to the
>creature as a 'Dalek' even though the Doctor hasn't even mentioned the
>word in her presence.
>
>Okay, so he shouts 'Oi Dalek, don't you recognise your mortal enemy?'
>while it's chasing him around the junkyard, but for Rachel to a) hear
>him, and b) infer that 'Dalek' is the name of the species, is a bit of
>a stretch and is plain fanboy revisionism. >It's a script error.
At what point did that happen? Was it at the actualy jumkyard or in a later
scene? If it's at a later scene I think it's safe to assume someone told her
they were called daleks.
>
>Still, it happens to even the best stories. It's like that bit in
>Caves of Androzani. 'Morgus said that Spectrox is the most valuable
>substance in the universe' says the Doctor. Except Morgus doesn't say
>anything of the sort...
Yeah, that's one little bit I never liked about Caves. The thing I like about
Spectrox is that it's a very realistic kind of thing to invent for a sci-fi
show. What I mean by that, is it's not some super substance that will allow
someone to be immortal or give them all the power in the universe of anything
way over the top like that. But for the Doctor to call it the most valuable
substance in the universe is a bit extreme I think.
-Fett
Fett
>Date: 10/18/2004 7:26 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <4173a784...@news.freeserve.net>
>
>On 18 Oct 2004 06:36:30 GMT, fett...@aol.comedyshack (Fett) wrote:
>
>> What kind of crappy production is this?
>
>You're acting all surprised that there are a few plot
>holes in a Doctor Who story, and that's a bit like
>being surprised that it starts with the Doctor Who
>music.
>
>I'm not defending poor plotting - I don't think "the
>Daleks shout 'exterminate', and they don't" is a plot
>hole, but let's leave that be
I never called it a plot hole. I merely stated
how every time I watch this story I find more wrong with it. That's just bad
production right there.
- but what's your
>favourite story, and do you see any plot holes
>in it? What - not at all?
Not nearly as many as Remembrance. My fav story is Genesis. Any suggestion that
Genesis of the Daleks has as many plotholes, screwup, crap parts in general, as
Remembrance is sheer insanity. So, please don't give me the whole "every era of
Dr. Who is equal" speech. It holds very little weight.
-Fett
Fett
>Date: 10/18/2004 10:41 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20041018104107...@mb-m21.aol.com>
>
>>fett...@aol.comedyshack (Fett)
>
>>Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because
>nothing
>>much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years. Anyway, I
>>have
>>a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a book
>>about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down. Is
>>there any significance to this?
>
>Apparently that is the same book that Susan was reading and pointing out
>historical errors in "An Unearthly Child". So I guess that is supposed to be
>Susan's desk at Coal Hill School.
>
>>Also, every time I watch this story I find more wrong with it. This viewing
>>was
>>no excepton.
>
>I watched this story about a month ago. Checked the DVD out of the local
>library. There are so many things to find fault with. I guess the most
>jarring
>thing for me was the lightning bolts coming from the fingertips of the little
>girl. Why would using her innocent human brain to program the Dalek battle
>computer imbue her with electrical charges (and the ability to vanish at the
>blink of an eye)?
Yeah, that's just too over the top. The most messed up thing about the girl is
that Ben Aaronovitch said that when he wrote the story, he put the little girl
in that machine to mislead people into thinking it was Davros. Then he realized
that he didn't have any actual reason, in terms of plot, to have that girl in
that chair to begin with so he just came up with the battle computer idea on
the spot! That's just bad writing there. You shouldn't have to contrive stuff
like that just to make a plot point work.
>
>Also, didn't anyone miss this child? She's hooked up to the Dalek computer or
>wandering around by herself most of the story. Where are her parents? Doesn't
>her teacher wonder where she's at?
True enough, but this kind of thing pretty much happens in every other TV show
period. There's never cops around at all, etc.
>Of course there is the instant change of driver scene in the van early in
>episode 1. That's really believable.
Yeah, but it's just supposed to be fun. I didn't worry about that too much.
(God, I sound like a Pro-McCoy here all of a sudden!)
>We see the Dalek shuttle land in one of the later episodes. It creates a lot
>of
>noise and even blows in the windows on the school. Yet apparently no one
>noticed the first time they landed; there is only a burnt pattern on the
>street.
Yep, I'll give ya that one. Unless it landed at night or something? Who knows.
>I thought it odd that the military hands out anti-tank weapons to a strange
>man
>with a brolly accompanied by a teenaged >girl.
LMAO! I overlooked this completely! People in these stories commonly wind up
trusting the Doctor for little apparent reason right off the bat, but this is
ridiculous.
>The Doctor says that Ace's boombox would be anachronistic in 1963, yet here
>is
>Ace walking around with space shuttle patches on her jacket, carrying and
>exploding bottles of nitro nine in front of the military, and toting an
>aluminum baseball bat (not invented until >the 70's) and no one takes notice.
LMAO. Also true!
>BTW, where did Ace find an aluminum >baseball bat?
Well, she could have that lying around in the TARDIS right? Or did they just
sort of pop that up out of nowhere?
>Ace and Mike seemed to form a deep relationship in about 2 hours time; she
>seems devastated when he turns out to >be working for the Daleks.
Well, I think that was more of a crush on her part than his.
>Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried but not
>when it is at the undertaker's shop?
Why the hell did the Doctor leave it there to begin with? If it's so damn
important, just keep it in your damn TARDIS. And wouldn't you think the Time
Lords would want the thing on Gallifrey with them??
>The Doctor makes everybody slide down a wire onto the top of the Dalek
>shuttle.
>They then enter a hatch on the top of the shuttle, go into the shuttle,
>deactivate a Dalek, and the Doctor crosswires some optical circuits. Then
>they
>walk out the front door of the shuttle. Why do Daleks have hatches on top of
>their shuttles? When would they ever use such a device? Why do four other
>people have to accompany the Doctor and be put in danger while he rewires
>some
>circuits?
Well, how about when the dalek is materializing the Doctor merely plays with
some wires and is able to make one half of the dalek dematerialize where the
other half is? Just from messing with a couple of wires!
>At the end of the story the only remaining Dalek can't contact any other
>Daleks. Naturally, he begins spinning about and sparking, eventually self
>destructing into a scant pile of ashes, not simply deactivating into a mush
>pile of green slime. I wonder why it blew up? I wonder why it is so
>distressing
>to a Dalek to be lonely?
Completely out of character for them. Though that's exactly what I want to do
when I'm done watching this story.
>Why do Doctor Who fans like this story?
I loved it the first time I saw it. But a lot of that had to do with the fact
that season 24 was so dreadful that this is still good stuff in comparison.
Plus, the white daleks looked good in it.
>One thing I did like about the story and something I never really noticed
>about
>it before was the scene in the cafe when the Doctor is mulling over whether
>or
>not he should destroy Skaro. He framed the question in the terms of "what if
>there were no sugar in the world? What would be the repercussions?" as he
>talked to the cook/server. I thought it was >an effective scene.
Eh, I thought it was over the top drivel. I like when Jeffrey from the Fresh
Prince pretty much says "oh, just stop whining and get of here."
-Fett
Lance Parkin
>Not nearly as many as Remembrance. My fav story is Genesis. Any suggestion that
>Genesis of the Daleks has as many plotholes, screwup, crap parts in general, as
>Remembrance is sheer insanity. So, please don't give me the whole "every era of
>Dr. Who is equal" speech. It holds very little weight.
One of my favourite stories is Genesis of the Daleks - see the DWM
Fourth Doctor Special for my write-up. I think it's probably the best
Doctor Who story, if I'm feeling objective.
But you don't have to believe that 'all Doctor Who is equal' to accept
that it's got all sorts of nonsense plotting. For starters, why is the
Doctor worried about the tape, and not Davros simply *remembering
what he heard*? Why is there a handy tunnel between the two
cities? Do the incubation tanks get destroyed or not?
Lance
Selaboc
> I watched this story about a month ago. Checked the DVD out of the local
> library. There are so many things to find fault with. I guess the most jarring
> thing for me was the lightning bolts coming from the fingertips of the little
> girl. Why would using her innocent human brain to program the Dalek battle
> computer imbue her with electrical charges (and the ability to vanish at the
> blink of an eye)?
It's been a long while since I've watched this one, I'd completely
forgotten the girl's Emperor Palpatine impersonation. I'm guessing
you'd need to read the book to find the answers you seek :-)
Seriously though, I don't think the girl has the "ability to vanish at
the blink of an eye" She's just moving around the corner out of view
when nobody's watching. It's supposed to build "mystery" and
"suspense".
> Also, didn't anyone miss this child? She's hooked up to the Dalek computer or
> wandering around by herself most of the story. Where are her parents? Doesn't
> her teacher wonder where she's at?
Well, the principal was under Dalek control, so I don't think the
teachers are much of a problem. As for her parent? Perhaps the Daleks
exterminated them when they took the child. Do we even know if she's
from Earth 1963? Could the Daleks have brought her with them from
where/whenever they came from?
> Of course there is the instant change of driver scene in the van early in
> episode 1. That's really believable.
Between Ace and the Doctor? It a sight gag.
> We see the Dalek shuttle land in one of the later episodes. It creates a lot of
> noise and even blows in the windows on the school. Yet apparently no one
> noticed the first time they landed; there is only a burnt pattern on the
> street.
And unless they replaced the windows very quickly, you'd think the
windows would have been blown out from the first landing.
> I thought it odd that the military hands out anti-tank weapons to a strange man
> with a brolly accompanied by a teenaged girl.
Apparently the military was much more trusting back them :-)
> The Doctor says that Ace's boombox would be anachronistic in 1963, yet here is
> Ace walking around with space shuttle patches on her jacket, carrying and
> exploding bottles of nitro nine in front of the military, and toting an
> aluminum baseball bat (not invented until the 70's) and no one takes notice.
Well, the boombox would be anachronistic technology. A jack patch
could be anything. For all anybody would know the "space shuttle"
patch could be from some sci-fi book or TV shows (perhaps from the
exciting new BBC program D....)
> BTW, where did Ace find an aluminum baseball bat?
She brought it with her from the TARDIS storage closet?
> Ace and Mike seemed to form a deep relationship in about 2 hours time; she
> seems devastated when he turns out to be working for the Daleks.
Jo manages to fall so deeply in love with Cliff in 3 hours that she
agrees to marry him in the Green Death (or a McCoy would call it the
Grrrrrrreen Death). That's a problem with TV drama that isn't limited
to the McCoy era. (though I probably should point out that
Rememberance does take place over the course of atleast two days as
denoted by several scene in-story.
> Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried but not
> when it is at the undertaker's shop?
Wasn't there a Dalek agent (working for Ratcliff) watching when the
Hand was taken to the graveyard? Or am I misremebering?
> The Doctor makes everybody slide down a wire onto the top of the Dalek shuttle.
> They then enter a hatch on the top of the shuttle, go into the shuttle,
> deactivate a Dalek, and the Doctor crosswires some optical circuits. Then they
> walk out the front door of the shuttle. Why do Daleks have hatches on top of
> their shuttles? When would they ever use such a device?
Well, as the shuttle is a spaceship, (at a guess) presumably the
"roof" hatch could connect to another spaceship in space and the
Daleks could hover (like they did chasing the Doctor up the stairs)
though the hatch between the shuttle and the other ship.
> Why do four other
> people have to accompany the Doctor and be put in danger while he rewires some
> circuits?
So the Doctor can have someone to impress with his rolling r-filled
technobabble?
> At the end of the story the only remaining Dalek can't contact any other
> Daleks. Naturally, he begins spinning about and sparking, eventually self
> destructing into a scant pile of ashes, not simply deactivating into a mush
> pile of green slime. I wonder why it blew up? I wonder why it is so distressing
> to a Dalek to be lonely?
My answer: Very poor writing. The Pro-McCoy answer: it's all explained
in the novelization.
> Why do Doctor Who fans like this story?
Probably because it's the best McCoy story (which isn't saying much)
and it features the Daleks. That and there were a few cool touches
(Daleks climbing stairs, special weapons Dalek, uhm......ok so I could
only think of two cool things)
Alan S. Wales
>> Why do four other
>> people have to accompany the Doctor and be put in danger while he rewires
>some
>> circuits?
>So the Doctor can have someone to impress with his rolling r-filled
>technobabble?
LOL. And he says g-r-r-r-r-r-r-rubby protruberances yet again. Once is not
enough.
dburns
"Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
> Not nearly as many as Remembrance. My fav story is Genesis. Any suggestion
that
> Genesis of the Daleks has as many plotholes, screwup, crap parts in
general, as
> Remembrance is sheer insanity. So, please don't give me the whole "every
era of
> Dr. Who is equal" speech. It holds very little weight.
Ah, Parkin is using the Blum defense. :-)
dburns
"Alan S. Wales" <powr...@aol.compost> wrote in message
news:20041018104107...@mb-m21.aol.com...
> >fett...@aol.comedyshack (Fett)
>
> >Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because
nothing
> >much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years. Anyway, I
> >have
> >a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a
book
> >about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down.
Is
> >there any significance to this?
>
> Apparently that is the same book that Susan was reading and pointing out
> historical errors in "An Unearthly Child". So I guess that is supposed to
be
> Susan's desk at Coal Hill School.
>
> >Also, every time I watch this story I find more wrong with it. This
viewing
> >was
> >no excepton.
>
> I watched this story about a month ago. Checked the DVD out of the local
> library. There are so many things to find fault with. I guess the most
jarring
> thing for me was the lightning bolts coming from the fingertips of the
little
> girl.
She was auditioning for the part of Electro in future Spider-Man movies. :-)
> Also, didn't anyone miss this child? She's hooked up to the Dalek computer
or
> wandering around by herself most of the story. Where are her parents?
Maybe she gave them a bit of a shock. :-)
> Doesn't
> her teacher wonder where she's at?
Of course not. As long as the teacher is getting paid, it doesn't matter if
she comes to class or is absent. :-)
> I thought it odd that the military hands out anti-tank weapons to a
strange man
> with a brolly accompanied by a teenaged girl.
They were thinking if the Doctor and Ace is armed with a weapon, that would
make them a more suitable target for the Daleks. It is better than they get
killed instead of more soildiers. :-)
> The Doctor says that Ace's boombox would be anachronistic in 1963, yet
here is
> Ace walking around with space shuttle patches on her jacket, carrying and
> exploding bottles of nitro nine in front of the military, and toting an
> aluminum baseball bat (not invented until the 70's) and no one takes
notice.
Maybe he thinks her music is extremely bad? :-)
> BTW, where did Ace find an aluminum baseball bat?
I thought you sold it to her. With your sporting goods company, I thought
you would be written into the story. :-)
> Ace and Mike seemed to form a deep relationship in about 2 hours time; she
> seems devastated when he turns out to be working for the Daleks.
There is no feeling like being betrayed by someone you might have trusted at
one point.
> The Doctor makes everybody slide down a wire onto the top of the Dalek
shuttle.
> They then enter a hatch on the top of the shuttle, go into the shuttle,
> deactivate a Dalek, and the Doctor crosswires some optical circuits. Then
they
> walk out the front door of the shuttle. Why do Daleks have hatches on top
of
> their shuttles? When would they ever use such a device?
Daleks have used humans in past stories like Resurrection and Day of the
Daleks.
.
> Why do four other
> people have to accompany the Doctor and be put in danger while he rewires
some
> circuits?
To give the Daleks something else to shoot at. :-)
Giga Wraith
"Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
> Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because
nothing
> much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years.
Oooh... this ought to be a good ripping post! :D
>Anyway, I have
> a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a book
> about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down.
Is
> there any significance to this?
Woe unto those who should attempt to defend a McCoy Story in the presence of
one Fett; woe indeed....
I think it has something to do with the first story. "Unearthly
Teenie-bopper". Susan was reading this book and remarking on how well hung
Napoleon actually was.
>
<snip>
re: bat
> Why, they
> put it in the hands of an irresponsible 16 year old of course. Smart move
> there, Doc.
Waaal... Ace is responsible enough. :D
>Another thing was when the army had a guard on the teleporter in
> the school basement. Er....why didn't they just blow the thing up? Oh, and
> finally, there's the daleks that yell "exterminate" but don't actually
shoot.
> In the cliffhanger to ep 1, the dalek chases the Doctor up the stairs, is
about
> five feet from him and just keeps yelling "exterminate" yet doesn't shoot.
They
> do the same thing at the end of ep 2. Three daleks surround Ace, are all
about
> two feet from her, and just shout "exterminate" for a good 20 seconds but
don't
> shoot. What kind of crappy production is this?
You and I are in complete agreement. If Daleks shout "EXTERMINATE" at
people and then don't blow the fuck out of them in the new series, it will,
well, frankly, suck.
> And all this stuff just came out
> a casual viewing. Man, I hope the new series is better than this garbage.
>
Don't worry Fett Ol' Pal - for it shall be indeed far superior in quality
and scope. It will also include titties!
-El Wraitho Del Taco-Muncho
> -Fett
Giga Wraith
"dburns" <dbu...@gallifrey.com> wrote in message
news:ckvoks$j92$0...@pita.alt.net...
how it can't go in the wrong
> hands (or
> > something like that). So, what does one do with an object like this?
>
>
> If you have a filthy mind, I'm sure you can come up with a few uses for
the
> electrified bat. :-)
>
>
:D Too bad that scene wasn't on the DVD. I hear that the Japanese Box Set
comes in a Giant Bat which asian girls have been seen using for just this
precise function.
Wait - nobdy here has the Japanese ALIEN box set. They'll have no idea what
I'm on about.
Fuck me.
-Wraith-
Duncan Corps
> I guess the most jarring thing for me was the lightning bolts coming
> from the fingertips of the little girl. Why would using her innocent
> human brain to program the Dalek battle computer imbue her with
> electrical charges (and the ability to vanish at the blink of an
> eye)?
She doesn't 'vanish'. And why shouldn't she have been augmented with a
Dalek weapon, much like the one that Davros wielded in Revelation Of The
Daleks?
> Also, didn't anyone miss this child? She's hooked up to the Dalek
> computer or wandering around by herself most of the story. Where are
> her parents?
Dead, probably. Killed by The Daleks when they kidnapped her.
> Doesn't her teacher wonder where she's at?
Teacher? Doesn't the plot imply that she's been brought with The Daleks
from the future? Why assume that she's a local girl from Coal Hill
School, or that the school hasn't been closed (by the military) for some
reason? Why would any teacher- if there is one- think to look for her?
Did your teachers search for you when you had a day off?
> Of course there is the instant change of driver scene in the van
> early in episode 1. That's really believable.
Feh, that's just the sort of unlikely thing that The Doctor specialises
in. Perfectly par for the course.
> We see the Dalek shuttle land in one of the later episodes. It
> creates a lot of noise and even blows in the windows on the school.
> Yet apparently no one noticed the first time they landed; there is
> only a burnt pattern on the street.
When did they first land? Perhaps it was days or weeks ago, and the
windows had been replaced since then. Perhaps it was a more covert
landing (engines on lower power), quieter and/ or at night, and the
windows weren't damaged then. Mind you, what makes you think no one
noticed? The military are there aren't they, presumably they got called
in by someone.
> I thought it odd that the military hands out anti-tank weapons to a
> strange man with a brolly accompanied by a teenaged girl.
Why does anyone trust The Doctor to any degree within seconds of meeting
him? He has powers... mind powers, much like Morbius or Salyavin.
> BTW, where did Ace find an aluminum baseball bat?
In the TARDIS. It's quite reasonable for her to arm herself before
venturing into an unknown, possibly dangerous, situation.
> Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried
> but not when it is at the undertaker's shop?
They didn't know it had been secreted in the undertaker's shop. A Dalek
spy saw it taken to the cemetery.
> At the end of the story the only remaining Dalek can't contact any
> other Daleks. Naturally, he begins spinning about and sparking,
> eventually self destructing into a scant pile of ashes, not simply
> deactivating into a mush pile of green slime. I wonder why it blew
> up? I wonder why it is so distressing to a Dalek to be lonely?
The Daleks are 'known' to be xenophobes, passionately hating anything
different. Imagine the shock to the last Dalek when it realises that it
is the ultimate in 'different', absolutely unique and alone in the
Universe. As for the self-destruct system... perhaps a measure designed
so that Dalek technology cannot be captured? Though it's still possible
to disable a Dalek before it can activate its self-destruct system.
--
. Sent with Mozilla 1.6 . How can I.D. cards possibly prevent .
. _| _ _ _ ___ _ ___ . terrorism, or reduce crime, or make .
. (_| \_/ / \ \_ /-\ \ / . identity theft harder? Why not make .
. What would The Doctor do? . the existing systems work properly? .
Duncan Corps
> How stupid is the dialogue when the Doctor tells the Captain that
> there are two dalek factions and the Captain says "Are they both from
> outer space?" No, ya friggin idiot, one group is from space and the
> other group is from Germany. What bad dialogue.
Wouldn't he find it extremely hard to believe that anyone or anything
was from space? Regardless of contemporary science fiction TV and
movies, had he had any experience of beings not from Earth? Seems like
just the sort of thing an incredulous straight-laced military man might say.
> The Doctor charges up the bat, says how it has unimaginable power and
> no one is responsible enough to use that power and how it can't go in
> the wrong hands (or something like that). So, what does one do with
> an object like this? Why, they put it in the hands of an
> irresponsible 16 year old of course.
Wasn't he talking about The Hand Of Omega, not The Baseball Bat Of Ace?
> Another thing was when the army had a guard on the teleporter in the
> school basement. Er....why didn't they just blow the thing up?
Because they recognise advanced technology when they see it and, like
anyone, get greedy. Perhaps this advanced technology could be used to
prevail in some conflict? Mmm, smited enemies...
> Oh, and finally, there's the daleks that yell "exterminate" but don't
> actually shoot.
Yes, well, that's Daleks for you. Hell, it's fictional bad guys
generally. Whether it's Doctor Who, Harry Potter or James Bond, the
villain(s) always give the hero a chance to escape. It's a ludicrous
cliché, but don't blame Doctor Who for it.
Duncan Corps
> From: powr...@aol.compost (Alan S. Wales)
>> but not when it is at the undertaker's shop?
>
> Why the hell did the Doctor leave it there to begin with? If it's so
> damn important, just keep it in your damn TARDIS. And wouldn't you
> think the Time Lords would want the thing on Gallifrey with them??
Too dangerous to carry around in a broken-down stolen TARDIS, and
definitely too dangerous to leave on Gallifrey. Don't forget it was the
First Doctor who brought The Hand Of Omega to Earth, and before the
events of the first televised story too. Imagine the state of the TARDIS
defences, for a start..!
> Well, how about when the dalek is materializing the Doctor merely
> plays with some wires and is able to make one half of the dalek
> dematerialize where the other half is? Just from messing with a
> couple of wires!
Messing with the innards of anything technological tends to make it go
wrong in some way (try sticking paperclips into a PC's motherboard :-).
But as for how he could achieve that specific result so easily... he's
The Doctor, he can do anything he wants. Just because you can't figure
out how to do something doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to do it.
John Pertwee
>Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because nothing
>much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years. Anyway, I have
>a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a book
>about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down. Is
>there any significance to this?
Very lame attempt to make us believe that it was the book that Susan
borrowed in An Unearthly Child. She took that book with her, so it
could not be the same book. Plus, the book Ass found was in the lab,
the book Susan had was in the history classroom.
>Also, every time I watch this story I find more wrong with it. This viewing was
>no excepton. How stupid is the dialogue when the Doctor tells the Captain that
>there are two dalek factions and the Captain says "Are they both from outer
>space?" No, ya friggin idiot, one group is from space and the other group is
>from Germany. What bad dialogue. Other stuff that bothers me: The Doctor
>charges up the bat, says how it has unimaginable power and no one is
>responsible enough to use that power and how it can't go in the wrong hands (or
>something like that). So, what does one do with an object like this? Why, they
>put it in the hands of an irresponsible 16 year old of course. Smart move
>there, Doc.
Not indestructible it seems, Ass broke it. This can be seen when she
is surrounded by Daleks at the end of part 2. Once it broke, it seems
the unimaginable power dissipated.
>Another thing was when the army had a guard on the teleporter in
>the school basement. Er....why didn't they just blow the thing up? Oh, and
>finally, there's the daleks that yell "exterminate" but don't actually shoot.
>In the cliffhanger to ep 1, the dalek chases the Doctor up the stairs, is about
>five feet from him and just keeps yelling "exterminate" yet doesn't shoot. They
>do the same thing at the end of ep 2. Three daleks surround Ace, are all about
>two feet from her, and just shout "exterminate" for a good 20 seconds but don't
>shoot. What kind of crappy production is this? And all this stuff just came out
>a casual viewing. Man, I hope the new series is better than this garbage.
Agree.
And just think, if the Pertwee era had been this bad, we might be
praising The Mutants as one of the best stories...
--
"Rainbows are pretty. I don't know why I shoot at them."
John Pertwee
John Pertwee
wrote:
>
>"Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
>news:20041018023630...@mb-m13.aol.com...
>> Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because
>nothing
>> much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years. Anyway, I
>have
>> a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a book
>> about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down.
>Is
>> there any significance to this?
>>
>
>The book that's lent to Susan by Barbara in "An Unearthly Child" is about
>the French revolution.
Susan was going to take that book home with her that night, and she
had it in the history classroom, not in the lab as it was in
Remembrance.
John Pertwee
wrote:
>Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried but not
>when it is at the undertaker's shop?
I am going from memory, so forgive me if I am wrong.
Didn't someone stick a rod into the ground? Then we see sparks, and
then the Daleks say they located it?
Nod
news:N56dnVDvz6q...@giganews.com...
> Wait - nobdy here has the Japanese ALIEN box set. They'll have no idea
what
> I'm on about.
I know of the box set. Very impressive.
> Fuck me.
No ta.
Nod
--
http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=Nod
Fett
>Date: 10/18/2004 3:25 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <i46dneDdjsY...@giganews.com>
Let's hope so.
-Fett
Fett
>
>Fett wrote:
>> How stupid is the dialogue when the Doctor tells the Captain that
>> there are two dalek factions and the Captain says "Are they both from
>> outer space?" No, ya friggin idiot, one group is from space and the
>> other group is from Germany. What bad dialogue.
>
>Wouldn't he find it extremely hard to believe that anyone or anything
>was from space? Regardless of contemporary science fiction TV and
>movies, had he had any experience of beings not from Earth? Seems like
>just the sort of thing an incredulous >straight-laced military man might say.
You gotta be kidding me. Why the heck would one group of daleks be from space
but another not be? Bad writing.
>> The Doctor charges up the bat, says how it has unimaginable power and
>> no one is responsible enough to use that power and how it can't go in
>> the wrong hands (or something like that). So, what does one do with
>> an object like this? Why, they put it in the hands of an
>> irresponsible 16 year old of course.
>
>Wasn't he talking about The Hand Of >Omega, not The Baseball Bat Of Ace?
The baseball bat...which was powered by the hand of Omega.
>> Another thing was when the army had a guard on the teleporter in the
>> school basement. Er....why didn't they just blow the thing up?
>
>Because they recognise advanced technology when they see it and, like
>anyone, get greedy. Perhaps this advanced technology could be used to
>prevail in some conflict? Mmm, smited >enemies...
Was there any indication that the miliarty wanted any technology in this story?
They just wanted to do their job and blow stuff up. Except for when there's a
transporter apparently.
>> Oh, and finally, there's the daleks that yell "exterminate" but don't
>> actually shoot.
>
>Yes, well, that's Daleks for you. Hell, it's fictional bad guys
>generally. Whether it's Doctor Who, Harry Potter or James Bond, the
>villain(s) always give the hero a chance to escape. It's a ludicrous
>cliché, but don't blame Doctor Who for it.
C'mon, man, it's 100 times worse in this story than any other. The daleks hover
there and yell "exterminate" and don't fire their guns.
-Fett
Fett
>Date: 10/18/2004 4:51 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <mumd42-...@fwei.org.uk>
>
>Alan S. Wales wrote:
>> I guess the most jarring thing for me was the lightning bolts coming
>> from the fingertips of the little girl. Why would using her innocent
>> human brain to program the Dalek battle computer imbue her with
>> electrical charges (and the ability to vanish at the blink of an
>> eye)?
>
>She doesn't 'vanish'. And why shouldn't she have been augmented with a
>Dalek weapon, much like the one that Davros wielded in Revelation Of The
>Daleks?
>
>> Also, didn't anyone miss this child? She's hooked up to the Dalek
>> computer or wandering around by herself most of the story. Where are
>> her parents?
>
>Dead, probably. Killed by The Daleks when they kidnapped her.
>
>> Doesn't her teacher wonder where she's at?
>
>Teacher? Doesn't the plot imply that she's been brought with The Daleks
>from the future?
Dude, what story were YOU watching???
> Why assume that she's a local girl from >Coal Hill
>School, or that the school hasn't been >closed (by the military) for some
>reason? Why would any teacher- if there >is one- think to look for her?
>Did your teachers search for you when >you had a day off?
It's presumed that the girl has been a dalek agent for longer than a day.
-Fett
Fett
>Date: 10/18/2004 12:16 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <4173eb3...@news.freeserve.net>
>
>On 18 Oct 2004 15:47:34 GMT, fett...@aol.comedyshack (Fett) wrote:
>
>>Not nearly as many as Remembrance. My fav story is Genesis. Any suggestion
>that
>>Genesis of the Daleks has as many plotholes, screwup, crap parts in general,
>as
>>Remembrance is sheer insanity. So, please don't give me the whole "every era
>of
>>Dr. Who is equal" speech. It holds very little weight.
>
>One of my favourite stories is Genesis of the Daleks - see the DWM
>Fourth Doctor Special for my write-up. I think it's probably the best
>Doctor Who story, if I'm feeling objective.
I did read that write up. Very well done, Lance.
>But you don't have to believe that 'all Doctor Who is equal' to accept
>that it's got all sorts of nonsense plotting. For starters, why is the
>
>Doctor worried about the tape, and not Davros simply *remembering
>what he heard*?
Well, the indication is that the Doctor was talking to Davros for quite some
time and gave him intricately detailed info on all the daleks' failures, rather
than just a two minute speech. No way he could remember all of it.
> Why is there a handy tunnel between >the two
>cities?
I think for the most part those tunnels weren't man made but were some sort of
cave system. I could be wrong though.
>Do the incubation tanks get destroyed or >not?
Doesn't really matter. They daleks get trapped in the bunker.
-Fett
Fett
>Date: 10/18/2004 4:24 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <ocld42-...@fwei.org.uk>
>
>Fett wrote:
>> From: powr...@aol.compost (Alan S. Wales)
>>> Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried
>>> but not when it is at the undertaker's shop?
>>
>> Why the hell did the Doctor leave it there to begin with? If it's so
>> damn important, just keep it in your damn TARDIS. And wouldn't you
>> think the Time Lords would want the thing on Gallifrey with them??
>
>Too dangerous to carry around in a broken-down stolen TARDIS, and
>definitely too dangerous to leave on Gallifrey. Don't forget it was the
>First Doctor who brought The Hand Of Omega to Earth, and before the
>events of the first televised story too. Imagine the state of the TARDIS
>defences, for a start..!
Wait a minute. It's too dangerous to leave in a stolen TARDIS but perfectly
safe to leave on a primitive planet with no space travel capability or
defenses???
>
>> Well, how about when the dalek is materializing the Doctor merely
>> plays with some wires and is able to make one half of the dalek
>> dematerialize where the other half is? Just from messing with a
>> couple of wires!
>
>Messing with the innards of anything technological tends to make it go
>wrong in some way (try sticking >paperclips into a PC's motherboard :-).
OK, and do you know the exact effect that will have? No, you don't.
>But as for how he could achieve that specific result so easily... he's
>The Doctor, he can do anything he >wants.
That's what the bad writers of the McCoy era say at least.
> Just because you can't figure
>out how to do something doesn't mean >that he doesn't know how to do it.
Just one question. Are you Ben Aaronovitch or Kevin Clarke?
-Fett
Lance Parkin
wrote:
No he isn't. I can't stand the McCoy era. I'm just saying that plot
holes in Doctor Who didn't start with 'if the Tetraps have eyes in
the back of their head, why can't they see behind them?'.
Lance
Ian Moore
> >From: moor...@gmail.com (Ian Moore)
> >Date: 10/18/2004 9:54 AM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <b45cb159.04101...@posting.google.com>
> >
> >while it's chasing him around the junkyard, but for Rachel to a) hear
> >him, and b) infer that 'Dalek' is the name of the species, is a bit of
> >a stretch and is plain fanboy revisionism. >It's a script error.
>
> At what point did that happen? Was it at the actualy jumkyard or in a later
> scene? If it's at a later scene I think it's safe to assume someone told her
> they were called daleks.
It's at the junkyard, just after the Doctor and Ace have driven off. I
only noticed it a few weeks ago.
dburns
"Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
Actually, he has a split personality. Half of the time he is Aaronovitch and
the rest of the time he is Clarke. :-)
Alan G McWhan
"Lance Parkin" <la...@lanceparkin.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4174aa4a...@news.freeserve.net...
Now, now, Lance. Don't you be introducing those pesky "facts" into the
discussion again! You're a pro-McCoy and that's that.
;o)
Alan S. Wales
>Fett wrote:
>> How stupid is the dialogue when the Doctor tells the Captain that
>> there are two dalek factions and the Captain says "Are they both from
>> outer space?" No, ya friggin idiot, one group is from space and the
>> other group is from Germany. What bad dialogue.
>Wouldn't he find it extremely hard to believe that anyone or anything
>was from space? Regardless of contemporary science fiction TV and
>movies, had he had any experience of beings not from Earth? Seems like
>just the sort of thing an incredulous straight-laced military man might say.
You're kidding right? What, "I can accept that *those* white mechanical robots
are from space, but those gray ones are definitely from Liverpool."
>> Another thing was when the army had a guard on the teleporter in the
>> school basement. Er....why didn't they just blow the thing up?
>Because they recognise advanced technology when they see it and, like
>anyone, get greedy. Perhaps this advanced technology could be used to
>prevail in some conflict? Mmm, smited enemies...
Yes, despite the Doctor going on and on and on about how the Daleks would leave
the Earth a smoldering peach pit they decide they might need to preserve the
very transportation device that the invading forces would use.
>> Oh, and finally, there's the daleks that yell "exterminate" but don't
>> actually shoot.
>Yes, well, that's Daleks for you. Hell, it's fictional bad guys
>generally. Whether it's Doctor Who, Harry Potter or James Bond, the
>villain(s) always give the hero a chance to escape. It's a ludicrous
>cliché, but don't blame Doctor Who for it.
Then I will blame Dr. Who for stretching this convention beyond belief. At
least in the Bond movies the villian turns on the device that's supposed to
kill 007.
As Bond squirms on the steel table, pulling at his restraints Goldfinger
switches on the laser cutting device.
"Do you expect me to talk?"
"No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die."
Compare to:
"Exterminate!"
"Exterminate!"
"Exterminate!"
"Exterminate!"
"Exterminate!"
"Exterminate!"
"Exterminate!"
Door at top of stairs opens and the Doctor tumbles forward onto the floor. Door
gets slammed shut, characters scramble away, THEN door explodes from Dalek ray
gun.
Alan S. Wales
>>Fett wrote:
>> Why the hell did the Doctor leave it there to begin with? If it's so
>> damn important, just keep it in your damn TARDIS. And wouldn't you
>> think the Time Lords would want the thing on Gallifrey with them??
>Too dangerous to carry around in a broken-down stolen TARDIS, and
>definitely too dangerous to leave on Gallifrey.
Too dangerous to carry around in a TARDIS? A device which transcends
dimensions? A device which cannot be penetrated by the Daleks?
>Don't forget it was the
>First Doctor who brought The Hand Of Omega to Earth, and before the
>events of the first televised story too. Imagine the state of the TARDIS
>defences, for a start..!
There is no reference that I know of that describes the broken down nature of
the TARDIS defences in the first few seasons, nor is there any reference to
them being repaired.
Regarding the Doctor taking the Hand of Omega to Earth--why did he do that
again? If he was trying to keep it out of the grubby protruberances of the
Daleks, how would he know that, considering he'd not encountered the Daleks
yet?
Alan S. Wales
>>powrwrap:
>> I guess the most jarring thing for me was the lightning bolts coming
>> from the fingertips of the little girl. Why would using her innocent
>> human brain to program the Dalek battle computer imbue her with
>> electrical charges (and the ability to vanish at the blink of an
>> eye)?
>She doesn't 'vanish'.
Several times in the story she is seen pretty much out in the open and in the
wink of an eye, she's gone. One time she's hiding behind the bumper of a
military truck in the middle of the road and the next second she's nowhere to
be seen.
>And why shouldn't she have been augmented with a
>Dalek weapon, much like the one that Davros wielded in Revelation Of The
>Daleks?
Because it's not essential to running the battle computer. Because the little
girl is not outfitted with any prosthesis. Because she not sitting in an
energized wheelchair when she uses her "weapon."
>> Also, didn't anyone miss this child? She's hooked up to the Dalek
>> computer or wandering around by herself most of the story. Where are
>> her parents?
>Dead, probably. Killed by The Daleks when they kidnapped her.
Possibly. Boy, I'm sure glad no one noticed a Dalek enter this family's house,
fire off a charged weapon and leave with a little girl in tow.
>> Doesn't her teacher wonder where she's at?
>
>Teacher? Doesn't the plot imply that she's been brought with The Daleks
>from the future?
No.
>Why assume that she's a local girl from Coal Hill
>School,
So, she's not been kidnapped?
>or that the school hasn't been closed (by the military) for some
>reason? Why would any teacher- if there is one- think to look for her?
At the beginning of the story she is seen on the school playground with the
other children. This strongly implies to me that:
a) the school isn't closed
b) she's local
c) she was just in class, but after recess, she's not; ergo the teacher should
be wondering what happened to her.
>Did your teachers search for you when you had a day off?
No, but I would hope they would if I was in school just prior to recess and
then just after recess I was gone.
>> Of course there is the instant change of driver scene in the van
>> early in episode 1. That's really believable.
>Feh, that's just the sort of unlikely thing that The Doctor specialises
>in. Perfectly par for the course.
Oh puh-leeeze. Give me *one* other example of such a stupid trick from any
other story.
>> We see the Dalek shuttle land in one of the later episodes. It
>> creates a lot of noise and even blows in the windows on the school.
>> Yet apparently no one noticed the first time they landed; there is
>> only a burnt pattern on the street.
>When did they first land? Perhaps it was days or weeks ago, and the
>windows had been replaced since then.
Doubtful.
Perhaps it was a more covert
>landing (engines on lower power), quieter and/ or at night, and the
>windows weren't damaged then.
Yes, that worked too well. Best to crank up the engines and land in broad
daylight the next time!
>Mind you, what makes you think no one
>noticed? The military are there aren't they, presumably they got called
>in by someone.
If someone saw a strange shuttlecraft descent from the sky and make a vertical
landing and the military was in on it, why would the commander wonder, scoff,
and ridicule the Doctor when he claimed the Daleks were from another world?
>> I thought it odd that the military hands out anti-tank weapons to a
>> strange man with a brolly accompanied by a teenaged girl.
>Why does anyone trust The Doctor to any degree within seconds of meeting
>him? He has powers... mind powers, much like Morbius or Salyavin.
That's quite convenient. I'm sure you can reference the scores of other times
the Doctor used his mind powers without any visible indication or mention of
them being employed.
>> BTW, where did Ace find an aluminum baseball bat?
>In the TARDIS. It's quite reasonable for her to arm herself before
>venturing into an unknown, possibly dangerous, situation.
And of course 1963 London is the epitome of anarchy and rioting in the streets.
>> Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried
>> but not when it is at the undertaker's shop?
>They didn't know it had been secreted in the undertaker's shop. A Dalek
>spy saw it taken to the cemetery.
The Dalek spy saw a floating casket accompany the Doctor to the gravesite.
>> At the end of the story the only remaining Dalek can't contact any
>> other Daleks. Naturally, he begins spinning about and sparking,
>> eventually self destructing into a scant pile of ashes, not simply
>> deactivating into a mush pile of green slime. I wonder why it blew
>> up? I wonder why it is so distressing to a Dalek to be lonely?
>The Daleks are 'known' to be xenophobes, passionately hating anything
>different. Imagine the shock to the last Dalek when it realises that it
>is the ultimate in 'different', absolutely unique and alone in the
>Universe.
Daleks may hate anything different than they, but it doesn't follow that one
should panic and destroy itself.
By this reasoning, Davros should have committed suicide, what, four times now?
>As for the self-destruct system... perhaps a measure designed
>so that Dalek technology cannot be captured? Though it's still possible
>to disable a Dalek before it can activate its self-destruct system.
Yet Dalek technology has been captured time and time again in previous stories.
Characters used to hide in their casings! And if your theory is correct, why
didn't the Dalek simply initiate the self destruct mechanism and get on with
it, without the histrionics.
Alan S. Wales
>>Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried but not
>>when it is at the undertaker's shop?
>I am going from memory, so forgive me if I am wrong.
>Didn't someone stick a rod into the ground? Then we see sparks, and
>then the Daleks say they located it?
I think one of the humans the Daleks had recruited saw the Doctor going to the
cemetery with a casket hovering behind him. After the casket is buried the guy
puts the rod in the ground and THEN the Daleks announce they have found it. If
a steel rod can be placed in the ground situated four feet above the top of the
casket and somehow give off signals as to the presence of the Hand, why can't
they simply find the energy signature of the Hand when it's inside a building
encased in a wooden box?
Alan G McWhan
"Alan S. Wales" <powr...@aol.compost> wrote in message
<SNIP> Oh puh-leeeze. Give me *one* other example of such a stupid trick
from any
> other story.
>
Ambassadors of Death - end of part two, I think, Dr Taltallion is holding
the Doctor at gunpoint demanding a tape recording. The Doctor simply makes
the tape vanish. Without even asking what the Doc did with it, Dr Taltallion
basically shrugs and buggers off.
<SNIP>
>>> Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried
>>> but not when it is at the undertaker's shop?
>
>>They didn't know it had been secreted in the undertaker's shop. A Dalek
>>spy saw it taken to the cemetery.
>
> The Dalek spy saw a floating casket accompany the Doctor to the gravesite.
>
The key is nothing to do with the spy - if you actually WATCH the episode
concerned, Radcliffe sticks an iron rod into the ground, right down into the
grave where the hand is buried. When the rod comes into contact with the
hand, there is a clear electrical discharge followed by a scene on the Dalek
shuttle where the Dalek says something like "emission from Hand of Omega
detected."
>>> At the end of the story the only remaining Dalek can't contact any
>>> other Daleks. Naturally, he begins spinning about and sparking,
>>> eventually self destructing into a scant pile of ashes, not simply
>>> deactivating into a mush pile of green slime. I wonder why it blew
>>> up? I wonder why it is so distressing to a Dalek to be lonely?
>
I wonder why the Dalek in Death to the Daleks kills itself simply for
letting some prisoners escape?
>>The Daleks are 'known' to be xenophobes, passionately hating anything
>>different. Imagine the shock to the last Dalek when it realises that it
>>is the ultimate in 'different', absolutely unique and alone in the
>>Universe.
>
> Daleks may hate anything different than they, but it doesn't follow that
> one
> should panic and destroy itself.
>
> By this reasoning, Davros should have committed suicide, what, four times
> now?
>
Davros isn't a Dalek.
>>As for the self-destruct system... perhaps a measure designed
>>so that Dalek technology cannot be captured? Though it's still possible
>>to disable a Dalek before it can activate its self-destruct system.
>
> Yet Dalek technology has been captured time and time again in previous
> stories.
> Characters used to hide in their casings! And if your theory is correct,
> why
> didn't the Dalek simply initiate the self destruct mechanism and get on
> with
> it, without the histrionics.
Presumably the Daleks in question were killed before they had a chance to
operate the self destruct?
Alan G McWhan
"Alan S. Wales" <powr...@aol.compost> wrote in message
>>>powrwrap
>
>>>Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried but
>>>not
>>>when it is at the undertaker's shop?
>
>>I am going from memory, so forgive me if I am wrong.
>
>>Didn't someone stick a rod into the ground? Then we see sparks, and
>>then the Daleks say they located it?
>
> I think one of the humans the Daleks had recruited saw the Doctor going to
> the
> cemetery with a casket hovering behind him. After the casket is buried the
> guy
> puts the rod in the ground and THEN the Daleks announce they have found
> it. If
> a steel rod can be placed in the ground situated four feet above the top
> of the
> casket and somehow give off signals as to the presence of the Hand, why
> can't
> they simply find the energy signature of the Hand when it's inside a
> building
> encased in a wooden box?
Because a wooden box is unlikely to act as an antenna?
Alan S. Wales
>>>>powrwrap
Yet a steel rod that doesn't even touch the casket buried in the ground,
(GROUND!) works as an antenna?
You are asking the signal from the Hand to overcome the entire mass of the
Earth and send a signal into outer space.
Alan S. Wales
>>powrwrap
>Oh puh-leeeze. Give me *one* other example of such a stupid trick
>from any
>> other story.
>Ambassadors of Death - end of part two, I think, Dr Taltallion is holding
>the Doctor at gunpoint demanding a tape recording. The Doctor simply makes
>the tape vanish. Without even asking what the Doc did with it, Dr Taltallion
>basically shrugs and buggers off.
><SNIP>
OK, don't remember this one. At least it was germane to the plot. Tell me, what
was the reason for the Doctor and Ace to switch driving positions in
Remembrance? What conflict was driving that maneuver?
>>>> Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried
>>>> but not when it is at the undertaker's shop?
>>>They didn't know it had been secreted in the undertaker's shop. A Dalek
>>>spy saw it taken to the cemetery.
>> The Dalek spy saw a floating casket accompany the Doctor to the gravesite.
>>
>
>The key is nothing to do with the spy - if you actually WATCH the episode
>concerned, Radcliffe sticks an iron rod into the ground, right down into the
>grave where the hand is buried. When the rod comes into contact with the
>hand, there is a clear electrical discharge followed by a scene on the Dalek
>shuttle where the Dalek says something like "emission from Hand of Omega
>detected."
Yes, that's what happens. Notice that the rod is nowhere near long enough to
reach six feet under to touch the casket and besides a grounded antenna can't
send a signal into outer space.
>
>>>> At the end of the story the only remaining Dalek can't contact any
>>>> other Daleks. Naturally, he begins spinning about and sparking,
>>>> eventually self destructing into a scant pile of ashes, not simply
>>>> deactivating into a mush pile of green slime. I wonder why it blew
>>>> up? I wonder why it is so distressing to a Dalek to be lonely?
>I wonder why the Dalek in Death to the Daleks kills itself simply for
>letting some prisoners escape?
I'd guess because he already knew he would be broken down for parts because he
failed in his assignment.
>>>The Daleks are 'known' to be xenophobes, passionately hating anything
>>>different. Imagine the shock to the last Dalek when it realises that it
>>>is the ultimate in 'different', absolutely unique and alone in the
>>>Universe.
>>
>> Daleks may hate anything different than they, but it doesn't follow that
>> one
>> should panic and destroy itself.
>>
>> By this reasoning, Davros should have committed suicide, what, four times
>> now?
>Davros isn't a Dalek.
>>>As for the self-destruct system... perhaps a measure designed
>>>so that Dalek technology cannot be captured? Though it's still possible
>>>to disable a Dalek before it can activate its self-destruct system.
>>
>> Yet Dalek technology has been captured time and time again in previous
>> stories.
>> Characters used to hide in their casings! And if your theory is correct,
>> why
>> didn't the Dalek simply initiate the self destruct mechanism and get on
>> with
>> it, without the histrionics.
>Presumably the Daleks in question were killed before they had a chance to
>operate the self destruct?
So? Instead of having the lone Dalek spinning and screaming, why didn't it
simply state, "initiating self destruct mechanism. Self destruct in 5 seconds"
then sit still until the explosion?
Alan S. Wales
>>powrwrap:
>why
>> can't
>> they simply find the energy signature of the Hand when it's inside a
>> building
>> encased in a wooden box?
>Because a wooden box is unlikely to act as an antenna?
Neither is an iron rod stuck in the ground four feet away from touching the
casket.
dburns
"Alan S. Wales" <powr...@aol.compost> wrote in message
> Oh puh-leeeze. Give me *one* other example of such a stupid trick from any
> other story.
A stupid trick? Well, McCoy was trying to do magic tricks in The Greatest
Show in the Galaxy...
> By this reasoning, Davros should have committed suicide, what, four times
now?
If only he would. Dalek stories since 1975 have concentrated more on Davros
than the Daleks themselves.
Daleks conquer and Destroy (we shall get our Power)
<Thi...@ngeEngine.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Alan S. Wales" <powr...@aol.compost> wrote in message
>news:20041019105804...@mb-m05.aol.com...
><SNIP> Oh puh-leeeze. Give me *one* other example of such a stupid trick
>from any
>> other story.
>>
>
>Ambassadors of Death - end of part two, I think, Dr Taltallion is holding
>the Doctor at gunpoint demanding a tape recording. The Doctor simply makes
>the tape vanish. Without even asking what the Doc did with it, Dr Taltallion
>basically shrugs and buggers off.
end of part one, the tape vanishing is the reprise at the start of
part 2. it is a pretty silly cop out.
http://www.geocities.com/hazelldean2000/
Winner of the RADW award for the person you would most like to meet over a cold beer.
Hazell Dean - Hi-NRG disco diva. Worship at her altar.
·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
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((¸¸.·´ ..·´
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·.·
dburns
"Alan G McWhan" <Thi...@ngeEngine.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cl3baq$l47$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Davros isn't a Dalek.
Kaleds, Daleks, same thing in the long run when you consider the flesh and
blood part of the creature inside the machine. Davros chair is the exact
same base that is used by the Daleks, and the Movellan virus attacked him
just like it did to the Daleks. If Davros isn't a Dalek, then the Movellan
virus wouldn't have attacked him.
dburns
"Alan S. Wales" <powr...@aol.compost> wrote in message
> You are asking the signal from the Hand to overcome the entire mass of the
> Earth and send a signal into outer space.
It never hurts to ask. :-) Besides, he seems to expect a lot from the
Hand. :-)
dburns
"Alan S. Wales" <powr...@aol.compost> wrote in message
> You're kidding right? What, "I can accept that *those* white mechanical
robots
> are from space, but those gray ones are definitely from Liverpool."
But the gray ones from Liverpool apparently have very distinct differences.
:-)
> At
> least in the Bond movies the villian turns on the device that's supposed
to
> kill 007.
>
> As Bond squirms on the steel table, pulling at his restraints Goldfinger
> switches on the laser cutting device.
>
> "Do you expect me to talk?"
>
> "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die."
>
> Compare to:
>
> "Exterminate!"
> "Exterminate!"
> "Exterminate!"
> "Exterminate!"
> "Exterminate!"
> "Exterminate!"
> "Exterminate!"
>
> Door at top of stairs opens and the Doctor tumbles forward onto the floor.
Door
> gets slammed shut, characters scramble away, THEN door explodes from Dalek
ray
> gun.
After comparing those two sequences, I would rather have Sean Connery as
Doctor Who than McCoy. :-)
dburns
"Alan S. Wales" <powr...@aol.compost> wrote in message
> There is no reference that I know of that describes the broken down nature
of
> the TARDIS defences in the first few seasons, nor is there any reference
to
> them being repaired.
What is wrong with the TARDIS other than its directional control?
> Regarding the Doctor taking the Hand of Omega to Earth--why did he do that
> again? If he was trying to keep it out of the grubby protruberances of the
> Daleks, how would he know that, considering he'd not encountered the
Daleks
> yet?
Well, as the writers from the McCoy era say when they are asked any
questions about their writing, "You will have to read the book to find out."
Not only does this kind of response piss off fans, it is as if the writer is
talking down to the fans and brushing them off for asking questions.
Duncan Corps
> Duncan Corps
>> Fett wrote:
[The Hand Of Omega]
>>> Why the hell did the Doctor leave it there to begin with? If it's
>>> so damn important, just keep it in your damn TARDIS. And wouldn't
>>> you think the Time Lords would want the thing on Gallifrey with
>>> them??
>>
>> Too dangerous to carry around in a broken-down stolen TARDIS, and
>> definitely too dangerous to leave on Gallifrey.
>
> Too dangerous to carry around in a TARDIS? A device which transcends
> dimensions? A device which cannot be penetrated by the Daleks?
A device which wasn't working properly in the early seasons. And he
wouldn't have been trying to keep it from The Daleks since he hadn't
encountered them. He may have been trying to keep it from the Time Lords
(Lungbarrow promotes the same idea).
>> Don't forget it was the First Doctor who brought The Hand Of Omega
>> to Earth, and before the events of the first televised story too.
>> Imagine the state of the TARDIS defences, for a start..!
>
> There is no reference that I know of that describes the broken down
> nature of the TARDIS defences in the first few seasons, nor is there
> any reference to them being repaired.
It's been a long while since I've seen any early Doctor Who (come /on/,
UK TV Gold!) but IIRC the TARDIS was always breaking down in one way or
another. Glancing through the Television Companion tends to confirm this.
As far as defences specifically are concerned, well, if it was so
fragile in so many ways then it's likely that the defences would either
be malfunctioning or, at best, insufficient to withstand a Time Lord attack.
Mind you, it couldn't even keep it's doors shut while travelling...
> Regarding the Doctor taking the Hand of Omega to Earth--why did he do
> that again? If he was trying to keep it out of the grubby
> protruberances of the Daleks, how would he know that, considering
> he'd not encountered the Daleks yet?
Perhaps he was trying to keep it out of the grrruby prrrotuberrrences
(oops- wrong Doctor) of his fellow Time Lords.
Better to hide it on some out-of-the-way backwater planet in some
out-of-the-way backwater year than carry it around with you if you
personally are probably being hunted.
--
. Sent with Mozilla 1.6 . How can I.D. cards possibly prevent .
. _| _ _ _ ___ _ ___ . terrorism, or reduce crime, or make .
. (_| \_/ / \ \_ /-\ \ / . identity theft harder? Why not make .
. What would The Doctor do? . the existing systems work properly? .
Luke Curtis
>Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because nothing
>much else was on
Lucky you! <G>
<snip>
>
>Also, every time I watch this story I find more wrong with it. This viewing was
>no excepton. How stupid is the dialogue when the Doctor tells the Captain that
>there are two dalek factions and the Captain says "Are they both from outer
>space?" No, ya friggin idiot, one group is from space and the other group is
>from Germany. What bad dialogue.
It is pointing out precisely that the Cap is a close minded idiot that
the only thing he can worry about is where they come from not what
their intentions are.
>Other stuff that bothers me: The Doctor
>charges up the bat, says how it has unimaginable power and no one is
>responsible enough to use that power and how it can't go in the wrong hands (or
>something like that). So, what does one do with an object like this? Why, they
>put it in the hands of an irresponsible 16 year old of course. Smart move
>there, Doc.
The Doctor is talking about the Hand, not the hand-charged bat.
>Another thing was when the army had a guard on the teleporter in
>the school basement. Er....why didn't they just blow the thing up?
They haven't got any explosives to hand? I haven't watched it for ages
but Ace had already used at least some of her nitro-9 in the Trotters
lane yard.
Don't forget the Doctor doesn't want to stop the Transmat being used
but just to delay things a bit so he can set up his plan to hand over
the Hand of Omega with as little collateral damage as possible.
(before his plans fall apart at the scenes as he realizes that there
are 2 factions of Daleks)
>Oh, and
>finally, there's the daleks that yell "exterminate" but don't actually shoot.
>In the cliffhanger to ep 1, the dalek chases the Doctor up the stairs, is about
>five feet from him and just keeps yelling "exterminate" yet doesn't shoot.
I always assumed that the anti-grav units used so much power that they
can't fire at the same time or they would be using them all the time.
>They
>do the same thing at the end of ep 2. Three daleks surround Ace, are all about
>two feet from her, and just shout "exterminate" for a good 20 seconds but don't
>shoot. What kind of crappy production is this?
A pretty corny cliffhanger, an overused staple of many Who previous
stories, certainly one of the (few) problems with Remembrance.
If you want to complain about stupid things in the story them complain
about the swapping seats scene or the poor acting of the little girl
or the fact that they shoehorned Davros into the story yet again when
it patently wasn't needed.
>
>-Fett
--
ButIstillneedtoknowwhat'sinthere!Thekeytoanysecurity
systemishowit'sdesigned!Thatdependsonwhyitwasdesigned!
Ihavetoknowwhatwhoeverdesigneditwastryingtoprotect!
(Blakes 7, City on the Edge of the World - Vila in typical panic mode)
Alan G McWhan
"Alan S. Wales" <powr...@aol.compost> wrote in message
> >"Alan G McWhan"
>
>>>powrwrap
>
>>Oh puh-leeeze. Give me *one* other example of such a stupid trick
>>from any
>>> other story.
>
>>Ambassadors of Death - end of part two, I think, Dr Taltallion is holding
>>the Doctor at gunpoint demanding a tape recording. The Doctor simply makes
>>the tape vanish. Without even asking what the Doc did with it, Dr
>>Taltallion
>>basically shrugs and buggers off.
>><SNIP>
>
> OK, don't remember this one. At least it was germane to the plot. Tell me,
> what
> was the reason for the Doctor and Ace to switch driving positions in
> Remembrance? What conflict was driving that maneuver?
>
The fact that Ace is a shit driver? You asked for an example of something
equally crap, I gave you one. I didn't at any point argue that the
Remembrance incident was any good.
>
>>>>> Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried
>>>>> but not when it is at the undertaker's shop?
>>>>They didn't know it had been secreted in the undertaker's shop. A Dalek
>>>>spy saw it taken to the cemetery.
>
>>> The Dalek spy saw a floating casket accompany the Doctor to the
>>> gravesite.
>>>
>>
>>The key is nothing to do with the spy - if you actually WATCH the episode
>>concerned, Radcliffe sticks an iron rod into the ground, right down into
>>the
>>grave where the hand is buried. When the rod comes into contact with the
>>hand, there is a clear electrical discharge followed by a scene on the
>>Dalek
>>shuttle where the Dalek says something like "emission from Hand of Omega
>>detected."
>
> Yes, that's what happens. Notice that the rod is nowhere near long enough
> to
> reach six feet under to touch the casket and besides a grounded antenna
> can't
> send a signal into outer space.
>
However a metal object doesn't need to actually be in contact with an
electrical source in order for the spark to jump to the object - I don't see
a particularly large leap of logic required to justify the energy from the
hand. And how do you know an antenna conducting the power of the Hand of
Omega can't send a signal into outer space? For all we know, it could turn
all the monkeys in the world into cheese.
>>
>>>>> At the end of the story the only remaining Dalek can't contact any
>>>>> other Daleks. Naturally, he begins spinning about and sparking,
>>>>> eventually self destructing into a scant pile of ashes, not simply
>>>>> deactivating into a mush pile of green slime. I wonder why it blew
>>>>> up? I wonder why it is so distressing to a Dalek to be lonely?
>
>>I wonder why the Dalek in Death to the Daleks kills itself simply for
>>letting some prisoners escape?
>
> I'd guess because he already knew he would be broken down for parts
> because he
> failed in his assignment.
>
And this is more logical than the Dalek in Remembrance how? They're both
shit - deal with it.
>>>>As for the self-destruct system... perhaps a measure designed
>>>>so that Dalek technology cannot be captured? Though it's still possible
>>>>to disable a Dalek before it can activate its self-destruct system.
>>>
>>> Yet Dalek technology has been captured time and time again in previous
>>> stories.
>>> Characters used to hide in their casings! And if your theory is correct,
>>> why
>>> didn't the Dalek simply initiate the self destruct mechanism and get on
>>> with
>>> it, without the histrionics.
>
>>Presumably the Daleks in question were killed before they had a chance to
>>operate the self destruct?
>
> So? Instead of having the lone Dalek spinning and screaming, why didn't it
> simply state, "initiating self destruct mechanism. Self destruct in 5
> seconds"
> then sit still until the explosion?
>
Does the self destruct Dalek in Death to the Daleks do that? No. So it's
already established that self-destructing Daleks first engage the "act like
a twattock" circuit.
Luke Curtis
wrote:
>>fett...@aol.comedyshack (Fett)
>
>>Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because nothing
>>much else was on and my PBS station is up the crap McCoy years. Anyway, I
>>have
>>a question. When Ace and the Doctor are in the school, Ace picks up a book
>>about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it down. Is
>>there any significance to this?
>
>Apparently that is the same book that Susan was reading and pointing out
>historical errors in "An Unearthly Child". So I guess that is supposed to be
>Susan's desk at Coal Hill School.
>
>>Also, every time I watch this story I find more wrong with it. This viewing
>>was
>>no excepton.
I haven't seen the story for ages so most of this is from memory
>
>I watched this story about a month ago. Checked the DVD out of the local
>library. There are so many things to find fault with. I guess the most jarring
>thing for me was the lightning bolts coming from the fingertips of the little
>girl. Why would using her innocent human brain to program the Dalek battle
>computer imbue her with electrical charges (and the ability to vanish at the
>blink of an eye)?
No idea - rubbish idea IMHO, fanwank explanation would be something
like some kind of implant in the girls brain to interface with the
Dalek Tech I would guess, along with her being so important to the
Daleks she also has had defenses cyberneticly built in to protect her.
>
>Also, didn't anyone miss this child? She's hooked up to the Dalek computer or
>wandering around by herself most of the story. Where are her parents? Doesn't
>her teacher wonder where she's at
there is no evidence that she is even from earth, let alone from the
surrounding area.
>
>Of course there is the instant change of driver scene in the van early in
>episode 1. That's really believable.
that's crap, yes. (A JNT idea which sums it up beautifully really)
>
>We see the Dalek shuttle land in one of the later episodes. It creates a lot of
>noise and even blows in the windows on the school. Yet apparently no one
>noticed the first time they landed; there is only a burnt pattern on the
>street.
Landed at night?
>
>I thought it odd that the military hands out anti-tank weapons to a strange man
>with a brolly accompanied by a teenaged girl.
Taking the piss at the form filling nature of British society and the
vast number of forms that you have to fill in (in triplicate) to get
anything done in the UK
>
>The Doctor says that Ace's boombox would be anachronistic in 1963, yet here is
>Ace walking around with space shuttle patches on her jacket, carrying and
>exploding bottles of nitro nine in front of the military, and toting an
>aluminum baseball bat (not invented until the 70's) and no one takes notice.
This is the middle of the swinging sixties, weird clothing was a
requirement was it not? <G>
>BTW, where did Ace find an aluminum baseball bat?
good question! [from the TARDIS I assume]
>
>Ace and Mike seemed to form a deep relationship in about 2 hours time; she
>seems devastated when he turns out to be working for the Daleks.
more like a couple of days - love at first site I assume, plus she is
meant to be a 16 year old girl full of raging hormones!
>
>Why can the Daleks locate the Hand of Omega only after it is buried but not
>when it is at the undertaker's shop?
Because it was activated by the iron bar pushed into the ground.
>
>The Doctor makes everybody slide down a wire onto the top of the Dalek shuttle.
>They then enter a hatch on the top of the shuttle, go into the shuttle,
>deactivate a Dalek, and the Doctor crosswires some optical circuits. Then they
>walk out the front door of the shuttle. Why do Daleks have hatches on top of
>their shuttles? When would they ever use such a device? Why do four other
>people have to accompany the Doctor and be put in danger while he rewires some
>circuits?
I think they choose to rather than having to.
>
>At the end of the story the only remaining Dalek can't contact any other
>Daleks. Naturally, he begins spinning about and sparking, eventually self
>destructing into a scant pile of ashes, not simply deactivating into a mush
>pile of green slime. I wonder why it blew up? I wonder why it is so distressing
>to a Dalek to be lonely?
the common theory is that it is linked to the girl, as the Girl loses
it feeds through to the Dalek and boosted by the Doctors taunts.
>Why do Doctor Who fans like this story?
It runs at a fairly good pace, the Doctor and Ace have a good
relationship and spark of each other well, there are quite a few
iconic moments, the initial Dalek in the junkyard scene, the Dalek on
the stairs, the Cafe scene, the Special Weapons Dalek, the Doctors
scene with Davros (probably the best since Genesis) the fact the story
was just *so* much better that the absolute dross that was most of
seasons 23 & 24.
For me it was the first story I had seen since Season 22 (Timelash I
believe - I don't remember seeing Revelation first time round) and I
much preferred Sly to Colin (not having seen the toned down Colin of
S23 or the OTT Sly of 24 - now I prefer Colin to Sly by a long way)
>
>One thing I did like about the story and something I never really noticed about
>it before was the scene in the cafe when the Doctor is mulling over whether or
>not he should destroy Skaro. He framed the question in the terms of "what if
>there were no sugar in the world? What would be the repercussions?" as he
>talked to the cook/server. I thought it was an effective scene.
great scene, did you see the longer version on the DVD?
Luke Curtis
wrote:
but Davros had done lots of genetic alterations to make the Daleks
unbeatable, removing compassion etc - that's why they apparently
killed him at the end of Genesis - because he wasn't a Dalek, the same
reason why the Daleks got him back for Destiny.
Duncan Corps
> Alan G McWhan wrote:
>> Alan S. Wales wrote:
> Tell me, what was the reason for the Doctor and Ace to switch driving
> positions in Remembrance? What conflict was driving that maneuver?
The Doctor is a better driver and knew how to get where he wanted to go.
Ace *had* just missed the turning.
>> The key is nothing to do with the spy - if you actually WATCH the
>> episode concerned, Radcliffe sticks an iron rod into the ground,
>> right down into the grave where the hand is buried. When the rod
>> comes into contact with the hand, there is a clear electrical
>> discharge followed by a scene on the Dalek shuttle where the Dalek
>> says something like "emission from Hand of Omega detected."
>
> Yes, that's what happens. Notice that the rod is nowhere near long
> enough to reach six feet under to touch the casket and besides a
> grounded antenna can't send a signal into outer space.
A defence mechanism, an energy surge from The Hand Of Omega- rattled by
someone thrusting a metal rod towards it- might take the form of an
emission strong enough to be detected from space. Until that point it
was quietly resting in an undertaker's shop, under no threat and thus
having no need to make any emissions.
>>>> As for the self-destruct system... perhaps a measure designed
>>>> so that Dalek technology cannot be captured?
>>>
>>> Yet Dalek technology has been captured time and time again in
>>> previous stories. Characters used to hide in their casings!
>>
>> Presumably the Daleks in question were killed before they had a
>> chance to operate the self destruct?
>
> So? Instead of having the lone Dalek spinning and screaming, why
> didn't it simply state, "initiating self destruct mechanism. Self
> destruct in 5 seconds" then sit still until the explosion?
They're a bit mad (for "a bit" read "extremely"). So would you be, if
you were a horribly scarred xenophobic fascist mutated living, bubbling,
lump of hate encased for eternity in hi-tech coffin.
Oh, OK, it's a bit daft and is only there as a flashy spectacle. That
and the extermination-less cries of "Exterminate" are fairly
nonsensical, but everything else does much the same thing and for far
longer. I could argue that the audience expects, *demands* it.
You know, you can carry on criticising and questioning everything about
that story but I can come up with a plausible rebuttal to almost
everything you say. And I'll still find it an enjoyable and more
coherent story than, say, most modern TV or movies.
dburns
"Luke Curtis" <mfl...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:ku8bn0d7jhanjmc2k...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:40:35 -1000, "dburns" <dbu...@gallifrey.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Alan G McWhan" <Thi...@ngeEngine.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:cl3baq$l47$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >> Davros isn't a Dalek.
> >
> >
> >Kaleds, Daleks, same thing in the long run when you consider the flesh
and
> >blood part of the creature inside the machine. Davros chair is the exact
> >same base that is used by the Daleks, and the Movellan virus attacked him
> >just like it did to the Daleks. If Davros isn't a Dalek, then the
Movellan
> >virus wouldn't have attacked him.
>
> but Davros had done lots of genetic alterations to make the Daleks
> unbeatable, removing compassion etc - that's why they apparently
> killed him at the end of Genesis - because he wasn't a Dalek, the same
> reason why the Daleks got him back for Destiny.
Davros may not have the computer mind of a Dalek, but physically he is still
dependent on the Dalek technology to keep him alive. The Dalek technology
has become a dominant part of him physically and possibly even mentally.
Whatever attacks the Daleks will attack him as well. It would be
interesting to know what kind of person Davros was like before he became
part Dalek himself and was confined to that chair.
If Kaleds and Daleks are not very similar genetically, that would be
surprising. It is kind of like the evolution in Full Circle when the
spiders, marshmen and the people on that planet shared the same cells. If
they can be that much alike through evolution, Kaleds and Dalek mutants
could also share the same cells as the Kaleds changed into the flesh and
blood part of the Daleks.
Fett
>Date: 10/19/2004 6:37 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <sj3bn0pgpv9t20t1g...@4ax.com>
>
>On 18 Oct 2004 06:36:30 GMT, fett...@aol.comedyshack (Fett) wrote:
>
>>Saw parts one and two of Remembrance of the Daleks last night because
>nothing
>>much else was on
>Lucky you! <G>
>
><snip>
>>
>>Also, every time I watch this story I find more wrong with it. This viewing
>was
>>no excepton. How stupid is the dialogue when the Doctor tells the Captain
>that
>>there are two dalek factions and the Captain says "Are they both from outer
>>space?" No, ya friggin idiot, one group is from space and the other group is
>>from Germany. What bad dialogue.
>It is pointing out precisely that the Cap is a close minded idiot that
>the only thing he can worry about is where they come from not what
>their intentions are.
No, it's just dumb dialogue. No one would be that stupid to ask a question like
that.
>>Other stuff that bothers me: The Doctor
>>charges up the bat, says how it has unimaginable power and no one is
>>responsible enough to use that power and how it can't go in the wrong hands
>(or
>>something like that). So, what does one do with an object like this? Why,
>they
>>put it in the hands of an irresponsible 16 year old of course. Smart move
>>there, Doc.
>The Doctor is talking about the Hand, not >the hand-charged bat.
Right, but the bat was powered using the Hand.
>>Another thing was when the army had a guard on the teleporter in
>>the school basement. Er....why didn't they just blow the thing up?
>They haven't got any explosives to hand? I haven't watched it for ages
>but Ace had already used at least some of her nitro-9 in the Trotters
>lane yard.
Don't you think the military just might have an explosive or two lying around?
>Don't forget the Doctor doesn't want to stop the Transmat being used
>but just to delay things a bit so he can set up his plan to hand over
>the Hand of Omega with as little collateral damage as possible.
>(before his plans fall apart at the scenes as he realizes that there
>are 2 factions of Daleks)
Oh yes, that great plan again. :)
>>Oh, and
>>finally, there's the daleks that yell "exterminate" but don't actually
>shoot.
>>In the cliffhanger to ep 1, the dalek chases the Doctor up the stairs, is
>about
>>five feet from him and just keeps yelling "exterminate" yet doesn't shoot.
>
>I always assumed that the anti-grav units used so much power that they
>can't fire at the same time or they would >be using them all the time.
Man, that is way too far a reach. I just don't understand why the production
crew didn't make those scenes better. It would be a simple matter of just
timing things different so that the daleks say "extreminate" and then the
credits roll.
>>They
>>do the same thing at the end of ep 2. Three daleks surround Ace, are all
>about
>>two feet from her, and just shout "exterminate" for a good 20 seconds but
>don't
>>shoot. What kind of crappy production is this?
>
>A pretty corny cliffhanger, an overused staple of many Who previous
>stories, certainly one of the (few) >problems with Remembrance.
True. At least as far as the corny cliffhangers, but there's far more than few
problems with this story.
>If you want to complain about stupid things in the story them complain
>about the swapping seats scene or the poor acting of the little girl
>or the fact that they shoehorned Davros into the story yet again when
>it patently wasn't needed.
This is just stuff that came to me as I was casually watching it. Nothing more
really.
-Fett
Duncan Corps
dburns wrote:
> Alan G McWhan wrote:
>> Alan S. Wales wrote:
>>> Duncan Corps wrote:
>>>> The Daleks are 'known' to be xenophobes, passionately hating
>>>> anything different. Imagine the shock to the last Dalek when it
>>>> realises that it is the ultimate in 'different', absolutely
>>>> unique and alone in the Universe.
>>>
>>> Daleks may hate anything different than they, but it doesn't
>>> follow that one should panic and destroy itself.
>>>
>>> By this reasoning, Davros should have committed suicide, what,
>>> four times now?
>>
>> Davros isn't a Dalek.
>
> Kaleds, Daleks, same thing in the long run when you consider the
> flesh and blood part of the creature inside the machine. Davros chair
> is the exact same base that is used by the Daleks, and the Movellan
> virus attacked him just like it did to the Daleks. If Davros isn't a
> Dalek, then the Movellan virus wouldn't have attacked him.
Irrelevant. It's the _mindset_, the _personality_, of Daleks which is
relevant here. Davros may share DNA and technology but he's still a
(sociopathic) Kaled. The Daleks have different personalities, attitudes
and responses because they have been drastically altered, are no longer
Kaleds in their psychology.
The Movellan virus works because it attacks the physical things which
they still have in common, but that's all.
Alan S. Wales
>>powrwrap
>>Notice that the rod is nowhere near long enough
>> to
>> reach six feet under to touch the casket and besides a grounded antenna
>> can't
>> send a signal into outer space.
>However a metal object doesn't need to actually be in contact with an
>electrical source in order for the spark to jump to the object - I don't see
>a particularly large leap of logic required to justify the energy from the
>hand.
Think of what you are saying. You are asking a spark of electricity to ignore
the easiet route to electrical ground, the Earth, which just happens to be
surrounding the electrical source.
>And how do you know an antenna conducting the power of the Hand of
>Omega can't send a signal into outer space? For all we know, it could turn
>all the monkeys in the world into cheese.
It has to overcome the entire mass of the Earth which is acting as an
electrical ground and would short-circuit the spark.
>> Instead of having the lone Dalek spinning and screaming, why didn't it
>> simply state, "initiating self destruct mechanism. Self destruct in 5
>> seconds"
>> then sit still until the explosion?
>Does the self destruct Dalek in Death to the Daleks do that? No. So it's
>already established that self-destructing Daleks first engage the "act like
>a twattock" circuit.
Oh, I see. This falls into the category of "even though we've been producing
Dr. Who for 25 years now, we've learned nothing and must repeat the mistakes of
the past, no matter how cheesy they are."
L. Ross Raszewski
>>>Other stuff that bothers me: The Doctor
>>>charges up the bat, says how it has unimaginable power and no one is
>>>responsible enough to use that power and how it can't go in the wrong hands
>>(or
>>>something like that). So, what does one do with an object like this? Why,
>>they
>>>put it in the hands of an irresponsible 16 year old of course. Smart move
>>>there, Doc.
>>The Doctor is talking about the Hand, not >the hand-charged bat.
>
>Right, but the bat was powered using the Hand.
Some percentage of the electricity entering my house originates in a
nuclear reactor. By your reasoning, this means that the Powers that Be
feel it would be safe to let me have a nuclear reactor in my house.
Selaboc
> It is pointing out precisely that the Cap is a close minded idiot that
> the only thing he can worry about is where they come from not what
> their intentions are.
I have to agree with Fett, it's poorly written dialogue
> >Another thing was when the army had a guard on the teleporter in
> >the school basement. Er....why didn't they just blow the thing up?
> They haven't got any explosives to hand? I haven't watched it for ages
> but Ace had already used at least some of her nitro-9 in the Trotters
> lane yard.
I rather doubt the military is lacking for explosives. More likely, I
would think, that they wish to study it. What military, when given the
opportunity, wouldn't like to gain access to advanced tech?
> >Oh, and
> >finally, there's the daleks that yell "exterminate" but don't actually shoot.
> >In the cliffhanger to ep 1, the dalek chases the Doctor up the stairs, is about
> >five feet from him and just keeps yelling "exterminate" yet doesn't shoot.
>
> I always assumed that the anti-grav units used so much power that they
> can't fire at the same time or they would be using them all the time.
That's actually not a bad explaination to cover the poor writing.
Shame the anti-grav units weren't being used in the ep 2 cliffhanger
:-)
> If you want to complain about stupid things in the story them complain
> about the swapping seats scene or the poor acting of the little girl
> or the fact that they shoehorned Davros into the story yet again when
> it patently wasn't needed.
Actually, I don't think "shoehorning in Davros" is much of a problem
here. It actually makes some sense, IMO, that if there are two
factions, that one would be headed by Davros.
Alan G McWhan
"Alan S. Wales" <powr...@aol.compost> wrote in message
> >"Alan G McWhan"
>
>>>powrwrap
>
>>>Notice that the rod is nowhere near long enough
>>> to
>>> reach six feet under to touch the casket and besides a grounded antenna
>>> can't
>>> send a signal into outer space.
>
>>However a metal object doesn't need to actually be in contact with an
>>electrical source in order for the spark to jump to the object - I don't
>>see
>>a particularly large leap of logic required to justify the energy from the
>>hand.
>
> Think of what you are saying. You are asking a spark of electricity to
> ignore
> the easiet route to electrical ground, the Earth, which just happens to be
> surrounding the electrical source.
>
No, I'm asking whatever energy type the *Hand of Omega* emits, which clearly
isn't just electricity but shares many of the same properties, to do so.
>>And how do you know an antenna conducting the power of the Hand of
>>Omega can't send a signal into outer space? For all we know, it could turn
>>all the monkeys in the world into cheese.
>
> It has to overcome the entire mass of the Earth which is acting as an
> electrical ground and would short-circuit the spark.
>
*If* and only if the energy was simply electricity. However if the Hand of
Omega emits Magic Monkey Beams then we have no idea how they would act.
>>> Instead of having the lone Dalek spinning and screaming, why didn't it
>>> simply state, "initiating self destruct mechanism. Self destruct in 5
>>> seconds"
>>> then sit still until the explosion?
>
>>Does the self destruct Dalek in Death to the Daleks do that? No. So it's
>>already established that self-destructing Daleks first engage the "act
>>like
>>a twattock" circuit.
>
> Oh, I see. This falls into the category of "even though we've been
> producing
> Dr. Who for 25 years now, we've learned nothing and must repeat the
> mistakes of
> the past, no matter how cheesy they are."
Oh I see. So this falls into the category of "even though this type of
action is well established in the show's history we can slag it this time,
and this time only, because it's a McCoy story."
Selaboc
> After comparing those two sequences, I would rather have Sean Connery as
> Doctor Who than McCoy. :-)
Random character: "who are you?"
Sean Connery: "Doctor, The Doctor"
Alan S. Wales
>>powrwrap:
>>>However a metal object doesn't need to actually be in contact with an
>>>electrical source in order for the spark to jump to the object - I don't
>>>see
>>>a particularly large leap of logic required to justify the energy from the
>>>hand.
>>
>> Think of what you are saying. You are asking a spark of electricity to
>> ignore
>> the easiet route to electrical ground, the Earth, which just happens to be
>> surrounding the electrical source.
>No, I'm asking whatever energy type the *Hand of Omega* emits, which clearly
>isn't just electricity but shares many of the same properties, to do so.
It's a radio wave. Radio waves don't go far if they are wired directly to
Earth.
>>>And how do you know an antenna conducting the power of the Hand of
>>>Omega can't send a signal into outer space? For all we know, it could turn
>>>all the monkeys in the world into cheese.
>> It has to overcome the entire mass of the Earth which is acting as an
>> electrical ground and would short-circuit the spark.
>*If* and only if the energy was simply electricity. However if the Hand of
>Omega emits Magic Monkey Beams then we have no idea how they would act.
I think it is safe to say that the energy is a radio wave. The Daleks are
monitoring communication devices when they proclaim that it has been found.
Alan S. Wales
>>Fett:
>>Right, but the bat was powered using the Hand.
>
>Some percentage of the electricity entering my house originates in a
>nuclear reactor. By your reasoning, this means that the Powers that Be
>feel it would be safe to let me have a nuclear reactor in my house.
What sort of an energy charge can:
a) be stored in an alumimum bat
b) not affect the holder of the device
c) only emits energy when a mechanical blunt force is applied to it
d) doesn't shock or otherwise affect the person wielding it.
Answer: a magic one.
Duncan Corps
> Alan G McWhan wrote:
>> Alan S. Wales wrote:
>>>> And how do you know an antenna conducting the power of the Hand
>>>> of Omega can't send a signal into outer space? For all we know,
>>>> it could turn all the monkeys in the world into cheese.
>>>
>>> It has to overcome the entire mass of the Earth which is acting
>>> as an electrical ground and would short-circuit the spark.
>>
>> *If* and only if the energy was simply electricity. However if the
>> Hand of Omega emits Magic Monkey Beams then we have no idea how
>> they would act.
>
> I think it is safe to say that the energy is a radio wave. The Daleks
> are monitoring communication devices when they proclaim that it has
> been found.
What th-..! How the jehosophat did you deduce that because The Daleks
were monitoring communications that;
1. That's the only monitoring or scanning they were doing
2. The only communications being monitored were primitive radio waves
... given that any Dalek worth it's salt would be watching out for all
sorts of hi-tech things that might be enemies, as well as
magic-monkey-beam emissions (is that term really used in the dialogue?)
for obvious reasons.
You're just inventing reasons to be critical. OK, it's unrealistic in
places because it's /fantasy/, but it still all makes sense within the
world it inhabits. A world with a wider set of physics and technology
than you know of.
Duncan, the 5th Doctor apparently (but unsurprisingly)
(
http://quizilla.com/users/winternight/quizzes/Which%20Incarnation%20of%20the%20Doctor%20Are%20You%3F/
)
Luke Curtis
LOL love the quiz - i'm the First Doctor!
dburns
"Duncan Corps" <duncan...@nospam.fwei.org.uk> wrote in message
news:aqqh42-...@fwei.org.uk...
> [context restored]
>
> dburns wrote:
> > Alan G McWhan wrote:
> >> Alan S. Wales wrote:
> >>> Duncan Corps wrote:
> >>>> The Daleks are 'known' to be xenophobes, passionately hating
> >>>> anything different. Imagine the shock to the last Dalek when it
> >>>> realises that it is the ultimate in 'different', absolutely
> >>>> unique and alone in the Universe.
> >>>
> >>> Daleks may hate anything different than they, but it doesn't
> >>> follow that one should panic and destroy itself.
> >>>
> >>> By this reasoning, Davros should have committed suicide, what,
> >>> four times now?
> >>
> >> Davros isn't a Dalek.
> >
> > Kaleds, Daleks, same thing in the long run when you consider the
> > flesh and blood part of the creature inside the machine. Davros chair
> > is the exact same base that is used by the Daleks, and the Movellan
> > virus attacked him just like it did to the Daleks. If Davros isn't a
> > Dalek, then the Movellan virus wouldn't have attacked him.
>
> Irrelevant. It's the _mindset_, the _personality_, of Daleks which is
> relevant here. Davros may share DNA and technology but he's still a
> (sociopathic) Kaled. The Daleks have different personalities, attitudes
> and responses because they have been drastically altered, are no longer
> Kaleds in their psychology.
Then what the hell is a Kaled and what the hell is a Dalek? Is the Dalek
only the machine part? Is the flesh and blood part of the machine a Kaled
mutant or is it a Dalek?
Duncan Corps
> Then what the hell is a Kaled and what the hell is a Dalek? Is the Dalek only
> the machine part? Is the flesh and blood part of the machine a Kaled mutant
> or is it a Dalek?
The Dalek is what was created when Davros put a Kaled mutant into a travel
machine. It's the combination of both and does not refer to either, ah,
component individually.
I suppose you can argue that it's fair to describe Davros's wheelchair as either
'Dalek technology' or 'Kaled technology', since they are of the same technology,
but he is not a Dalek. He's merely a heavily injured Kaled with an especially
bad attitude.
--
_| _ _ _ ___ _ ___ Harry Callahan: "A man's got to know his limitations."
(_| \_/ / \ \_ /-\ \ / George W Bush: "The limit in Texas, I believe, is 15."
Mozilla: Better, safer web and e-mail with Mozilla Suite http://www.mozilla.org/
ID cards: Expensive, unnecessary, useless and dangerous http://www.stand.org.uk/
Selaboc
> I suppose you can argue that it's fair to describe Davros's wheelchair as either
> 'Dalek technology' or 'Kaled technology', since they are of the same technology,
> but he is not a Dalek. He's merely a heavily injured Kaled with an especially
> bad attitude.
Actually, according to Rememberance of the Daleks, Davros *IS* a
Dalek, the Emporer Dalek of one of the two factions to be precise.
Paul Andinach
news:3c20e9e9.04102...@posting.google.com:
Yeah, but that's clearly just a legal fiction so the Imperials don't
feel bad about being led by a non-Dalek.
Paul
--
The Pink Pedanther
Paul Andinach
news:20041019105804...@mb-m05.aol.com:
> Duncan Corps
>
> > powrwrap:
> > > Also, didn't anyone miss this child? She's hooked up to the
> > > Dalek computer or wandering around by herself most of the
> > > story. Where are her parents?
> >
> > Dead, probably. Killed by The Daleks when they kidnapped her.
>
> Possibly. Boy, I'm sure glad no one noticed a Dalek enter this
> family's house, fire off a charged weapon and leave with a
> little girl in tow.
Yes, because this group of Daleks *doesn't* have a bunch of human
allies/slaves they can get to do the job for them where a Dalek
would be too conspicuous.
> > Mind you, what makes you think no one
> > noticed? The military are there aren't they, presumably they
> > got called in by someone.
>
> If someone saw a strange shuttlecraft descent from the sky and
> make a vertical landing and the military was in on it, why would
> the commander wonder, scoff, and ridicule the Doctor when he
> claimed the Daleks were from another world?
Doesn't mean it was aliens. It could have been Russians. :)
> > > I thought it odd that the military hands out anti-tank
> > > weapons to a strange man with a brolly accompanied by a
> > > teenaged girl.
> >
> > Why does anyone trust The Doctor to any degree within seconds
> > of meeting him? He has powers... mind powers, much like Morbius
> > or Salyavin.
>
> That's quite convenient. I'm sure you can reference the scores
> of other times the Doctor used his mind powers without any
> visible indication or mention of them being employed.
I think "mind powers" is overstating the case, but there are other
examples of people instantly trusting the Doctor.
> > > BTW, where did Ace find an aluminum baseball bat?
> >
> > In the TARDIS. It's quite reasonable for her to arm herself
> > before venturing into an unknown, possibly dangerous,
> > situation.
>
> And of course 1963 London is the epitome of anarchy and rioting
> in the streets.
This is Ace. She thinks any situation is dangerous enough to
justify having powerful explosives on hand. What's your point?
>>As for the self-destruct system... perhaps a measure designed
>>so that Dalek technology cannot be captured? Though it's still
>>possible to disable a Dalek before it can activate its
>>self-destruct system.
>
> Yet Dalek technology has been captured time and time again in
> previous stories. Characters used to hide in their casings! And
> if your theory is correct, why didn't the Dalek simply initiate
> the self destruct mechanism and get on with it, without the
> histrionics.
Do you know, I've never seen a Dalek engage its self-destruct
mechanism *without* histrionics? (see also 'Death to the Daleks')
Perhaps it's a bug in the triggering mechanism, or something.
> --
> "When you argue with a fool be sure he is not similarly
> occupied."
No comment.
Paul Andinach
news:20041019014641...@mb-m16.aol.com:
> From: Duncan Corps duncan...@nospam.fwei.org.uk
> Date: 10/18/2004 4:24 PM Eastern Standard Time
> Message-id: <ocld42-...@fwei.org.uk>
>
> > Fett wrote:
> > > Well, how about when the dalek is materializing the Doctor
> > > merely plays with some wires and is able to make one half of
> > > the dalek dematerialize where the other half is? Just from
> > > messing with a couple of wires!
> >
> > Messing with the innards of anything technological tends to
> > make it go wrong in some way (try sticking paperclips into a
> > PC's motherboard :-).
>
> OK, and do you know the exact effect that will have? No, you
> don't.
>
> > But as for how he could achieve that specific result so
> > easily... he's The Doctor, he can do anything he wants.
>
> That's what the bad writers of the McCoy era say at least.
Come on, be fair. McCoy wasn't the first Doctor to mess around with
a couple of wires and get the exact effect he wanted.
Paul Andinach
news:3c20e9e9.04101...@posting.google.com:
> powr...@aol.compost (Alan S. Wales) wrote in message
> news:<20041018104107...@mb-m21.aol.com>...
> > At the end of the story the only remaining Dalek can't contact
> > any other Daleks. Naturally, he begins spinning about and
> > sparking, eventually self destructing into a scant pile of
> > ashes, not simply deactivating into a mush pile of green slime.
> > I wonder why it blew up? I wonder why it is so distressing to a
> > Dalek to be lonely?
>
> My answer: Very poor writing. The Pro-McCoy answer: it's all
> explained in the novelization.
It is, as a matter of fact. :)
Yes, we realise that it would have been better if he'd managed to
convey it properly in the television version, but don't forget that
Aaronovitch had to write that scene in a hurry after somebody
pointed out a flaw in his original solution to the problem of the
remaining Dalek.
(In the original script, the Doctor just blew it up. No comment.)
Fett
>Date: 10/21/2004 8:25 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <Xns958A55CF2...@130.133.1.4>
In other words, it was bad writing. :)
>
>(In the original script, the Doctor just blew it up. No comment.)
-Fett
Fett
>Date: 10/19/2004 1:52 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <4174aa4a...@news.freeserve.net>
>
>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:30:17 -1000, "dburns" <dbu...@gallifrey.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
>>news:20041018114734...@mb-m17.aol.com...
>>> Not nearly as many as Remembrance. My fav story is Genesis. Any suggestion
>>that
>>> Genesis of the Daleks has as many plotholes, screwup, crap parts in
>>general, as
>>> Remembrance is sheer insanity. So, please don't give me the whole "every
>>era of
>>> Dr. Who is equal" speech. It holds very little weight.
>
>>Ah, Parkin is using the Blum defense. :-)
>
>No he isn't. I can't stand the McCoy era. I'm just saying that plot
>holes in Doctor Who didn't start with 'if the Tetraps have eyes in
>the back of their head, why can't they see behind them?'.
>
Oh, you're right. Plenty of plot holes to go around. Eathshock has some big
ones that come to mind.
-Fett
Fett
>Date: 10/19/2004 10:29 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20041019102903...@mb-m05.aol.com>
>
>>Duncan Corps
>
>>Fett wrote:
>>> How stupid is the dialogue when the Doctor tells the Captain that
>>> there are two dalek factions and the Captain says "Are they both from
>>> outer space?" No, ya friggin idiot, one group is from space and the
>>> other group is from Germany. What bad dialogue.
>
>>was from space? Regardless of contemporary science fiction TV and
>>movies, had he had any experience of beings not from Earth? Seems like
>>just the sort of thing an incredulous straight-laced military man might say.
>
>You're kidding right? What, "I can accept that *those* white mechanical
>robots
>are from space, but those gray ones are definitely from Liverpool."
>
>>> Another thing was when the army had a guard on the teleporter in the
>>> school basement. Er....why didn't they just blow the thing up?
>
>>anyone, get greedy. Perhaps this advanced technology could be used to
>>prevail in some conflict? Mmm, smited enemies...
>
>Yes, despite the Doctor going on and on and on about how the Daleks would
>leave
>the Earth a smoldering peach pit they decide they might need to preserve the
>very transportation device that the invading forces would use.
>
>>> Oh, and finally, there's the daleks that yell "exterminate" but don't
>>> actually shoot.
>
>>generally. Whether it's Doctor Who, Harry Potter or James Bond, the
>>villain(s) always give the hero a chance to escape. It's a ludicrous
>>cliché, but don't blame Doctor Who for it.
>
>Then I will blame Dr. Who for stretching this convention beyond belief. At
>least in the Bond movies the villian turns on the device that's supposed to
>kill 007.
>
>As Bond squirms on the steel table, pulling at his restraints Goldfinger
>switches on the laser cutting device.
>
>"Do you expect me to talk?"
>
>"No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die."
>
>Compare to:
>
>"Exterminate!"
>"Exterminate!"
>"Exterminate!"
>"Exterminate!"
>"Exterminate!"
>"Exterminate!"
>"Exterminate!"
>
>Door at top of stairs opens and the Doctor tumbles forward onto the floor.
>Door
>gets slammed shut, characters scramble away, THEN door explodes from Dalek
>ray
>gun.
>
Dalek: "Damn, if he'd had only stood in the same place for another 17 minutes!
-Fett
Fett
>Date: 10/21/2004 8:19 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <Xns958A54CF2...@130.133.1.4>
True enough. But this was a pretty good example of one. There are worse
problems than this with this story though.
-Fett
Fett
>Date: 10/19/2004 4:25 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <3r9g42-...@fwei.org.uk>
>
>Alan S. Wales wrote:
>> Duncan Corps
>[The Hand Of Omega]
>>>> Why the hell did the Doctor leave it there to begin with? If it's
>>>> so damn important, just keep it in your damn TARDIS. And wouldn't
>>>> you think the Time Lords would want the thing on Gallifrey with
>>>> them??
>>>
>>> Too dangerous to carry around in a broken-down stolen TARDIS, and
>>> definitely too dangerous to leave on Gallifrey.
>>
>> Too dangerous to carry around in a TARDIS? A device which transcends
>> dimensions? A device which cannot be penetrated by the Daleks?
>
>A device which wasn't working properly in the early seasons. And he
>wouldn't have been trying to keep it from The Daleks since he hadn't
>encountered them. He may have been trying to keep it from the Time Lords
>(Lungbarrow promotes the same idea).
>
>>> Don't forget it was the First Doctor who brought The Hand Of Omega
>>> to Earth, and before the events of the first televised story too.
>>> Imagine the state of the TARDIS defences, for a start..!
>>
>> There is no reference that I know of that describes the broken down
>> nature of the TARDIS defences in the first few seasons, nor is there
>> any reference to them being repaired.
>
>It's been a long while since I've seen any early Doctor Who (come /on/,
>UK TV Gold!) but IIRC the TARDIS was always breaking down in one way or
>another. Glancing through the Television Companion tends to confirm this.
>
>As far as defences specifically are concerned, well, if it was so
>fragile in so many ways then it's likely that the defences would either
>be malfunctioning or, at best, insufficient to withstand a Time Lord attack.
>
>Mind you, it couldn't even keep it's doors shut while travelling...
>
>> Regarding the Doctor taking the Hand of Omega to Earth--why did he do
>> that again? If he was trying to keep it out of the grubby
>> protruberances of the Daleks, how would he know that, considering
>> he'd not encountered the Daleks yet?
>
>Perhaps he was trying to keep it out of the grrruby prrrotuberrrences
>(oops- wrong Doctor) of his fellow Time Lords.
>
>Better to hide it on some out-of-the-way backwater planet in some
>out-of-the-way backwater year than carry it around with you if you
>personally are probably being hunted.
WARNING!
WARNING!
LUNGBARROW REFERENCES!
LUNGBARROW REFERENCES!
-Fett
Fett
>Date: 10/20/2004 11:13 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <bgvdd.3593$7d7.195@trnddc04>
Bad analogy. Is the baseball bat something which requires energy to properly
function? No. Would the Powere that Be feel it would be safe to let you have
urnanium rods in your closet?
-Fett
dburns
"Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
Sounds like he is at least consistent.
dburns
"Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
It might help Philadelphia if their bats had some kind of energy in them.
:-)
Emmemm
> "Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
>>
>
>
> Sounds like he is at least consistent.
Consistently bad? Yup.
--
Frank
"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much
fraternizing with the enemy." - Henry Kissinger i
dburns
"Emmemm" <fr...@fshailes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:clh17b$2af$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> dburns wrote:
> > "Fett" <fett...@aol.comedyshack> wrote in message
> >>
> >> In other words, it was bad writing. :)
> >
> >
> > Sounds like he is at least consistent.
>
> Consistently bad? Yup.
Well, it is what he does best. :-)
Andrew
"Selaboc" <c64...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c20e9e9.04101...@posting.google.com...
> powr...@aol.compost (Alan S. Wales) wrote in message
> news:<20041018104107...@mb-m21.aol.com>...
>
>> At the end of the story the only remaining Dalek can't contact any other
>> Daleks. Naturally, he begins spinning about and sparking, eventually self
>> destructing into a scant pile of ashes, not simply deactivating into a
>> mush
>> pile of green slime. I wonder why it blew up? I wonder why it is so
>> distressing
>> to a Dalek to be lonely?
>
> My answer: Very poor writing.
Fair enough. I think Aaronovitch was taking Tom Baker's maxim about laughing
villains into oblivion to it's illogical end. If we wasn't trying so hard to
write a Hollywood action pic, he'd have realised that the Dalek ought to
have killed the Doctor where he stood, regardless of his mission failing.
Made me think of that moment in "Earthshock" - "You will not live to savour
the victory - I shall now kill you". Why didn't the cyberman just lift his
gun and open the doctors skull? The Talking Villain Fallacy once more...;-)
>
>> Why do Doctor Who fans like this story?
>
> Probably because it's the best McCoy story (which isn't saying much)
> and it features the Daleks. That and there were a few cool touches
I watched this story on a black and white set, which enhanced the nostalgic
feel. It did have some touches that had been lacking from the show for a
while, but the whole shtick about the Doctor being the arch manipulator just
struck me as poor writing and basically undramatic.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 22/10/2004
Tracy
> >lrasz...@loyola.edu (L. Ross Raszewski)
>
> >>Fett:
> >>Right, but the bat was powered using the Hand.
> >
> >Some percentage of the electricity entering my house originates in a
> >nuclear reactor. By your reasoning, this means that the Powers that Be
> >feel it would be safe to let me have a nuclear reactor in my house.
>
> What sort of an energy charge can:
>
> a) be stored in an alumimum bat
> b) not affect the holder of the device
> c) only emits energy when a mechanical blunt force is applied to it
> d) doesn't shock or otherwise affect the person wielding it.
>
> Answer: a magic one.
Here's another thought to put forth to the table: What race does the
Hand of Omega belong to? I'm not talking about Rassilon, Omega, the
Other, Borusa, Flavia, Romana, the Doctor; I'm talking about the
species itself.
The Hand was wrought from a race that can:
- Cheat Death, indefinitely if they wanted to. (The Five Doctors)
- Move entire Stellar Systems across the Galaxy (Trial of a Time Lord)
- Move their world outside the contemporary Space-time Continuum into
an area of Inner Time. Implications are found in the Stones of Blood
and the Five Doctors.
- Time Loops Worlds (Image of the Fendahl)
- Quarantine Worlds within Forcefields (The War Games)
- Create quasi-sentient constructs; Transdimensional demesnes that
allow them travel across time and space. (See the entirety of the
series)
- Transmat a member of their race or an object 29,000 light years,
within a meter of accuracy or less. (Terror of the Autons/The
Mutants.)
- Attempt to hold a cosmic energy drain in check- very nobly in deed-
and the only race I've seen in sci-fi to do so. (The Three Doctors.)
- Create a weapon that can erase beings from the timelines.
- Possess incredibly brilliant minds; a scientist who captured a black
hole for the energy source of his race and stabilized it in an
eternally dynamic equation against his Homeworld's mass. (The Deadly
Assassin.) Moreover, that's just one, we have the creation of the
Transduction Barriers and the lesser known Quantum Shield (a sadly
overlooked defense that if tampered stupidly could vaporize their
Homeworld- The Invasion of Time.) And of course, there is the ultimate
Gallifreyan Defense, an Omnimorphic bio-metallic substance called
Validium. An amazing it force, it's exotic nature caused turmoil and
destroyed Fleet. (The Silver Nemesis.)
- Create a vast, extradimensional computer housing the sum-total
knowledge and experiences of the elite members of its Homeworld.
Additionally, said computer, the Matrix is akin to a vast Virtual
Reality landscape all its own when entered with varied control via the
respective person's Will. (The Deadly Assassin, The Invasion of Time,
Trial of a Time Lord.)
I would be happy to go on- into the books with galaxy destroying
arrays, uber spaceships, and cool guns that can eat through planets-
but I'll stick with the series. Now, consider the Hand of Omega and
what was mentioned and demonstrated on Remembrance of the Daleks:
Essentially it's described as a remote stellar manipulator;
manipulates stars, possibly accelerates aging, but more importantly
converts them to something else- such as a lack hole. Special not in
mind, this is an object measuring approximately two meter in length
altering a star roughly more or less 1.989e+30 kg in mass (Sol's
mass.) You want the Hand of Omega to overcome the Earth's mass of
5.976e+24kg- for something that could destroy solar systems, things
are always possible.
Now a few more things to point out:
1. The Dalek monitoring sensors, merely states that a power source has
been detected- said Dalek gives go specific type, whether
electromagnetic, chronon, or otherwise. The Daleks might have already
found an inert, resonance pattern before hand, but was a bit too weak
to detect.
2. The Omega device like many Gallifreyan Constructs was
quasi-sentient, as evidenced by Ace's questioning and the Doctor's
response. It is plausible that the whole thing, the locating of the
device in question was obviously part of it. After all, the Doctor's
response to Ace's question about stopping the Daleks form getting it
was essentially- he wanted the right Daleks to have it.
3. If the postulate is correct that the Hand of Omega can alter stars
on a whim, then what of the possibility of a metal bat? Certainly, it
primary purpose is one of stellar scale manipulation but what of a
bat; altering the molecular structure, adding to or taking away of
something leading to a fair but not extreme change. A reverse of the
neutron polarity flow here and there gives the bat a potential charge;
Ace was not given a weapon if incredible, destructive power, just
something that was altered enough for a needed purpose. The duration
of this alteration wouldn't necessarily be great as the Hand had such
a primitive construct to work with and it needn't be; it would last
long enough for them to accomplish their task.
4. Call this dumb if you will but as a side and final question, how
deep was that grave? Was it the standard six feet, or maybe five or
even four? I will say a pick ax, if that's what I saw, is a bit much
for use in digging up a coffin, I mean, what if you dent it!
Alan S. Wales
>>powrwrap:
>> What sort of an energy charge can:
>>
>> a) be stored in an alumimum bat
>> b) not affect the holder of the device
>> c) only emits energy when a mechanical blunt force is applied to it
>> d) doesn't shock or otherwise affect the person wielding it.
>>
>> Answer: a magic one.
>Here's another thought to put forth to the table: What race does the
>Hand of Omega belong to? I'm not talking about Rassilon, Omega, the
>Other, Borusa, Flavia, Romana, the Doctor; I'm talking about the
>species itself.
>The Hand was wrought from a race that can:
<snip list>
I never considered the "Hand" to be organic, I always assumed it was a piece of
technology.
>Now, consider the Hand of Omega and
>what was mentioned and demonstrated on Remembrance of the Daleks:
>
>Essentially it's described as a remote stellar manipulator;
>manipulates stars, possibly accelerates aging, but more importantly
>converts them to something else- such as a lack hole. Special not in
>mind, this is an object measuring approximately two meter in length
>altering a star roughly more or less 1.989e+30 kg in mass (Sol's
>mass.) You want the Hand of Omega to overcome the Earth's mass of
>5.976e+24kg- for something that could destroy solar systems, things
>are always possible.
>Now a few more things to point out:
>
>1. The Dalek monitoring sensors, merely states that a power source has
>been detected- said Dalek gives go specific type, whether
>electromagnetic, chronon, or otherwise. The Daleks might have already
>found an inert, resonance pattern before hand, but was a bit too weak
>to detect.
Possibly. I still think it was lame to give the Daleks the ability to find it
when a four foot long rod was put in the ground!
>2. The Omega device like many Gallifreyan Constructs was
>quasi-sentient, as evidenced by Ace's questioning and the Doctor's
>response. It is plausible that the whole thing, the locating of the
>device in question was obviously part of it. After all, the Doctor's
>response to Ace's question about stopping the Daleks form getting it
>was essentially- he wanted the right Daleks to have it.
>3. If the postulate is correct that the Hand of Omega can alter stars
>on a whim, then what of the possibility of a metal bat? Certainly, it
>primary purpose is one of stellar scale manipulation but what of a
>bat; altering the molecular structure, adding to or taking away of
>something leading to a fair but not extreme change. A reverse of the
>neutron polarity flow here and there gives the bat a potential charge;
>Ace was not given a weapon if incredible, destructive power, just
>something that was altered enough for a needed purpose. The duration
>of this alteration wouldn't necessarily be great as the Hand had such
>a primitive construct to work with and it needn't be; it would last
>long enough for them to accomplish their task.
Might as well add ESP to the list of things the Hand can do. When the Doctor
"charged" the baseball bat he opened the coffin containing the Hand, dropped
the bat in there, waited a second or two for it to levitate back out of the
coffin, grabbed it and was on his way. How did the Hand know what the Doctor
wanted it to do to the bat? How did the Hand know to destroy Skaro's star
system?
>4. Call this dumb if you will but as a side and final question, how
>deep was that grave? Was it the standard six feet, or maybe five or
>even four? I will say a pick ax, if that's what I saw, is a bit much
>for use in digging up a coffin, I mean, what if you dent it!
I presume the Hand will do whatever it feels like doing. As you pointed out, it
does almost everything. It's almost like a Gallifreyan talisman.
--
"When you argue with a fool be sure he is not similarly occupied."
See how the pros get their power!
http://www.powrwrap.com/press.htm
gclap...@cix.compulink.co.uk
fett...@aol.comedyshack (Fett) wrote:
> Ace picks up a book
> about the French Revolution, briefly examines it, and then puts it
> down. Is
> there any significance to this?
Cack-handed in-joke reference to the book Susan borrows in part 1 of the
first story (whatever we're calling that this week...)
gclap...@cix.compulink.co.uk
fett...@aol.comedyshack (Fett) wrote:
>
>
> Oh, you're right. Plenty of plot holes to go around. Eathshock has some
> big
> ones that come to mind.
Not forgetting 'why ould the Yeti want to invade Earth just to get at the
Doctor's intelligence, when he wasn't actually on Earth in the first
place...'
dburns
<gclap...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
news:clidbf$dqq$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
The Yeti came from outer space? This is news to me. I though they were built
on Earth.
Selaboc
When you say "Yeti", you really mean "The Great Intelligence" (which
was controlling the Yeti). That's not really a plot hole so much as an
untold backstory. Since we're never told how and why the Great
Intellugence is on Earth in the first place and since it appears to be
stuck on Earth, while the Doctor clearly isn't, it's not much of a
stretch to see that the Intelligence would be interested in the
Doctor's knowledge of time/space travel in order to free itself from
the earth and it's region of space/time.
OptimusPrimeX
can't fit through the tardis door
powr...@aol.compost (Alan S. Wales) wrote in message news:<20041019103743...@mb-m05.aol.com>...
> > Duncan Corps
>
> >>Fett wrote:
>
> >> Why the hell did the Doctor leave it there to begin with? If it's so
> >> damn important, just keep it in your damn TARDIS. And wouldn't you
> >> think the Time Lords would want the thing on Gallifrey with them??
>
> >Too dangerous to carry around in a broken-down stolen TARDIS, and
> >definitely too dangerous to leave on Gallifrey.
>
> Too dangerous to carry around in a TARDIS? A device which transcends
> dimensions? A device which cannot be penetrated by the Daleks?
>
> >Don't forget it was the
> >First Doctor who brought The Hand Of Omega to Earth, and before the
> >events of the first televised story too. Imagine the state of the TARDIS
> >defences, for a start..!
>
> There is no reference that I know of that describes the broken down nature of
> the TARDIS defences in the first few seasons, nor is there any reference to
> them being repaired.
>
Alan S. Wales
>the reason the hand of omega was left on earth was because the casket
>can't fit through the tardis door
If so, please explain how the Hand got to Earth.
Fett
>Message-id: <20041029101328...@mb-m16.aol.com>
>
>> j...@arches.uga.edu (OptimusPrimeX)
>
>>the reason the hand of omega was left on earth was because the casket
>>can't fit through the tardis door
>
>If so, please explain how the Hand got to Earth.
I think he may have been kidding. I hope so at least. I'm pretty damn sure
there are things bigger than that casket inside the TARDIS. The fourth Doctor's
nose for instance. :)
-Fett
gclap...@cix.compulink.co.uk
wrote:
>
> The Yeti came from outer space? This is news to me. I though they were
> built
> on Earth.
OK, OK, The Intelligence...
The Doctor
The GRAT Intelligence you mean.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Alberta on 22 Nov 2004 Boot out Ralph Klein - Vote Liberal!!
Fett
>Date: 11/4/2004 1:16 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <cmdrlt$369$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>
>In article <clt018$504$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk>,
> <gclap...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>>In article <clpib7$2lc$0...@pita.alt.net>, dbu...@gallifrey.com (dburns)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The Yeti came from outer space? This is news to me. I though they were
>>> built
>>> on Earth.
>>
>>OK, OK, The Intelligence...
>
>The GRAT Intelligence you mean
Yep. "Grat" Intelligence is, of course, what he meant. You don't exactly have
"grat" intelligence yourself, Yads.
-Fett
The Doctor
Paul Andinach
news:20041019105804...@mb-m05.aol.com:
>> Duncan Corps
>
>>>powrwrap:
>>> I thought it odd that the military hands out anti-tank weapons
>>> to a strange man with a brolly accompanied by a teenaged girl.
>>
>>Why does anyone trust The Doctor to any degree within seconds of
>>meeting him? He has powers... mind powers, much like Morbius or
>>Salyavin.
>
> That's quite convenient. I'm sure you can reference the scores
> of other times the Doctor used his mind powers without any
> visible indication or mention of them being employed.
Today's rerun was "Revenge of the Daleks", part one.
The Doctor, Sarah, and Harry show up on a restricted space station,
without triggering any of the devices that the station is shown to
have for detecting approaching spacecraft, in a section of the
station that's been sealed off for months; when the security team,
sent out after the Doctor sets off an alarm breaking out of the
sealed area, find them, they're standing over the body of an
unconscious crewman.
Inside five minutes, the Doctor is in charge of the investigation,
and the security team are so comfortable with the newcomers'
presence that one of them actually hands his gun to Sarah while he
and Harry carry his stricken crewmate to the infirmary. When it's
later discovered that the crewman was poisoned, and that somebody
has been sabotaging the stations' radio logs, there's not so much
as an accusing look in the direction of the newcomers. By the end
of the episode, the commander of the station is talking as if the
Doctor's been around for ages.
It may not be mind powers, but it's clearly not something unique to
the seventh Doctor...
Paul
Alan S. Wales
>>powrwrap
>>> Duncan Corps
>>>>powrwrap:
>>>> I thought it odd that the military hands out anti-tank weapons
>>>> to a strange man with a brolly accompanied by a teenaged girl.
>>>Why does anyone trust The Doctor to any degree within seconds of
>>>meeting him? He has powers... mind powers, much like Morbius or
>>>Salyavin.
>> That's quite convenient. I'm sure you can reference the scores
>> of other times the Doctor used his mind powers without any
>> visible indication or mention of them being employed.
>Today's rerun was "Revenge of the Daleks", part one.
What is Revenge of the Daleks? A BF audio?
>The Doctor, Sarah, and Harry show up on a restricted space station,
>without triggering any of the devices that the station is shown to
>have for detecting approaching spacecraft, in a section of the
>station that's been sealed off for months; when the security team,
>sent out after the Doctor sets off an alarm breaking out of the
>sealed area, find them, they're standing over the body of an
>unconscious crewman.
>Inside five minutes, the Doctor is in charge of the investigation,
>and the security team are so comfortable with the newcomers'
>presence that one of them actually hands his gun to Sarah while he
>and Harry carry his stricken crewmate to the infirmary. When it's
>later discovered that the crewman was poisoned, and that somebody
>has been sabotaging the stations' radio logs, there's not so much
>as an accusing look in the direction of the newcomers. By the end
>of the episode, the commander of the station is talking as if the
>Doctor's been around for ages.
In this scenario the crewman is unconscious and later it is determined that he
had been poisoned. Apparently the security personnel that discovered the Doctor
standing over the unconscious crewman assumed that if the Doctor were guilty of
anything he would have tried to escape. I presume the commander deduced that
the poisoning and radio sabotaging must have occurred before the alarms rang.
At no time do I consider, "Hmmm.. the Doctor must have a subliminal ability to
hypotize people through mind control. He can plant images in people's mind's
eye so they see and hear something completely different than reality."
Even the Master has to be overt about his attempts to control people. ("You
will obey me. You will do as I say." etc.) and he's supposed to be at the top
of the charts as far as Gallifreyan mind control goes. I also recall a couple
of times when the Doctor *does* attempt to secretly hypnotize someone and it
fails.
>It may not be mind powers, but it's clearly not something unique to
>the seventh Doctor...
Well, what is it? Stupidity? Gullibility?
I've always admired the Doctor's ability to "take over the room". The ability
to turn a situation completely into his favor. I always assumed it was because
of his charming demeanor and display of quick thinking.
Still, handing a rocket launcher over to a strangely dressed little man and a
teenage girl is a bit much for me.
--
"When you argue with a fool be sure he is not similarly occupied."
See how the pros get their power!
http://www.powrwrap.com/press.htm