The Time Lords Are Gone (Spoilers)
Ignis Fatuus
The Time Lords Are Gone and it's Spring
Tra La
With Promise of Merry Sunshine.
Old Rassilon Thought He'd Be King
Tra La
But The Master Fell Out Of His Ring
Tra La
and gave him a Hell of a Time.
The Doctor
I doubt that was the Original Rassilon; just an usurper using the name.
--
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Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
Ross
> In article <83m1k5pkvg1vf1o5k3pbhbqk3ie1ccv...@4ax.com>,
> Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >The Time Lords Are Gone and it's Spring
> >Tra La
> >With Promise of Merry Sunshine.
> >Old Rassilon Thought He'd Be King
> >Tra La
> >But The Master Fell Out Of His Ring
> >Tra La
> >and gave him a Hell of a Time.
>
> I doubt that was the Original Rassilon; just an usurper using the name.
> --
> Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
> Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
More likely than that, the Doctor was just *calling* him Rassilon to
point out that he was *acting* like he wanted to be the next Rassilon.
But in the absence of other evidence, "No, he's really Rassilon,
released from his eternal sleep by the Time War" seems like the most
likely explanation.
The Doctor
Ross <rras...@trenchcoatsoft.com> wrote:
>On Jan 3, 2:01=A0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> In article <83m1k5pkvg1vf1o5k3pbhbqk3ie1ccv...@4ax.com>,
>>
>>
>>
>> >The Time Lords Are Gone and it's Spring
>> >Tra La
>> >With Promise of Merry Sunshine.
>> >Old Rassilon Thought He'd Be King
>> >Tra La
>> >But The Master Fell Out Of His Ring
>> >Tra La
>> >and gave him a Hell of a Time.
>>
>> I doubt that was the Original Rassilon; just an usurper using the name.
>> --
>2k.ab.ca
>> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist=
> rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
>
>More likely than that, the Doctor was just *calling* him Rassilon to
>point out that he was *acting* like he wanted to be the next Rassilon.
>
>But in the absence of other evidence, "No, he's really Rassilon,
>released from his eternal sleep by the Time War" seems like the most
>likely explanation.
I doubt Rassilon was malevolent.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
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Fred
group of Time Lords that survive the Time War. They have no home
planet, no technology, no powers, and no place to go. The Doctor
decides to settle them on Earth where they can serve as a team of
scientific advisors to UNIT, with the Doctor occasionally checking up
on them and keeping them out of trouble.
In effect, its the reverse of the 3rd Doctor's own exile to Earth.
I imagine a bunch of stiff, elitist fogeys struggle to integrate into
the society and culture of early 21st century England. I'd model it
after Star Trek 4, where Kirk, Spock and the rest travel to modern day
San Francisco and try to fit in.
The Doctor
Reverse is correct.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
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Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK
The Face of Po
Fred got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
Helping them to get settled is the kind of thing that Torchwood were
doing in "Out of Time" and "Adrift".
The "bunch of elitist fogeys" aspect sounds like the setup for a sitcom
(Third Rock meets Summer Wine). They'd be getting into a different
scrape each week due to their unfamiliarity with Earth culture, and need
the Doctor to clean up the mess and explain what they'd got wrong.
--
Happiness will prevail
Ignis Fatuus
wrote:
We already have that with the Doctor, the Master, the Monk, the
Garden Gnome and Chronotis. There's room for development without
swamping the show in Ideas.
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury
> In article <83m1k5pkvg1vf1o5k3pbhbqk3ie1ccv...@4ax.com>,
> Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >The Time Lords Are Gone and it's Spring
> >Tra La
> >With Promise of Merry Sunshine.
> >Old Rassilon Thought He'd Be King
> >Tra La
> >But The Master Fell Out Of His Ring
> >Tra La
> >and gave him a Hell of a Time.
>
> I doubt that was the Original Rassilon; just an usurper using the name.
> --
You can doubt all you like you twat but if the producer of the show
says it's Rassilon, it WAS Rassilon. Did you MISS the point that the
Time Lords had turned evil? FFS! Don't you lot understand ANYTHING
when you sit down to watch a tv show? LOL!
AlanSailsbury
Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon because it was
Rassilon. Simple.
solar penguin
AlanSailsbury wrote:
>
> You can doubt all you like you twat but if the producer of the show
> says it's Rassilon, it WAS Rassilon.
What the producer _says_ isn't canon or continuity or anything like
that. It's merely a statement of intent, nothing more.
If it wasn't actually established within the story itself that it was
Rassilon then the end result is that it might not necessarily have
been Rasslion, no matter what any number of producers say they
intended.
solar penguin
AlanSailsbury wrote:
>
> Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon because it was
> Rassilon. Simple.
"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, but
it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
Ignis Fatuus
Well The Doctor Called him Rassilon if That's any help. Of course it
Had been a long time and The Doctor had just fallen from a great
height but his lines Were written by Russell T Davies who must have
had a Reason for including the name Rassilon in the Doctor's
dialogue...
Of course he Might have confused him with Borusa who Wanted to become
Rassilon and even had a Regeneration tailor made in the Image and
Likeness of Rassilon before being thwarted in his madcap schemes by
One or more incarnations of The Doctor coexisting simultaneously in
flagrant violation of the Laws of Time but not necessarily in the same
persona...
Stephen Wilson
"solar penguin" <solar....@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:5cf2d4b7-92a1-43dc...@f5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Classic case of this is Brain of Morbius. The faces that appeared after
Morbius took the Doctor's appearance back to William Hartnell were
*intended* to represent previous incarnations of the Doctor. This was stated
by the producer. Since then however, everyone else has decided that there
were no other Doctors prior to Hartnell, so have reached the conclusion that
the other faces must have been Morbius, despite the original intent.
Stephen Wilson
"Ignis Fatuus" <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote in message
news:40e4k5lf5794tggv9...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:31:09 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
> <solar....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You can doubt all you like you twat but if the producer of the show
>>> says it's Rassilon, it WAS Rassilon.
>>
>>What the producer _says_ isn't canon or continuity or anything like
>>that. It's merely a statement of intent, nothing more.
>>
>>If it wasn't actually established within the story itself that it was
>>Rassilon then the end result is that it might not necessarily have
>>been Rasslion, no matter what any number of producers say they
>>intended.
>
> Well The Doctor Called him Rassilon if That's any help. Of course it
> Had been a long time and The Doctor had just fallen from a great
> height but his lines Were written by Russell T Davies who must have
> had a Reason for including the name Rassilon in the Doctor's
> dialogue...
I don't think RTD had any reason other than giving the more obsessed fans
something to argue about. In which case, I think it worked! Or maybe it was
just a nod to the past.
Otherwise, you're left with at least 5 other options:
1. The Time Lords revived Rassilon, just as they revived the Master.
2. Rassilon never really died, and has been brought out of suspended
animation.
3. This was not the original Rassilon. Rassilon II maybe. Just as our
current Queen Elizabeth is not the same as the first Queen Elizabeth.
4. This wasn't Rassilon; the Doctor just used the name to make some kind of
point or insult.
5. Some kind of time anomaly has occurred and Gallifrey has gone back in
time relative to the Doctor's "now", or even exists in lots of different
"nows" simultaneously.
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jan 3, 7:01=A0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> In article <83m1k5pkvg1vf1o5k3pbhbqk3ie1ccv...@4ax.com>,
>>
>>
>>
>> >The Time Lords Are Gone and it's Spring
>> >Tra La
>> >With Promise of Merry Sunshine.
>> >Old Rassilon Thought He'd Be King
>> >Tra La
>> >But The Master Fell Out Of His Ring
>> >Tra La
>> >and gave him a Hell of a Time.
>>
>> I doubt that was the Original Rassilon; just an usurper using the name.
>> --
>
>You can doubt all you like you twat but if the producer of the show
>says it's Rassilon, it WAS Rassilon. Did you MISS the point that the
>when you sit down to watch a tv show? LOL!
>
Did you miss the point about the Doctor not suppose to cross
his time line?
That would be a violation.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jan 3, 9:17=A0pm, Ross <rrasz...@trenchcoatsoft.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 3, 2:01=A0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > In article <83m1k5pkvg1vf1o5k3pbhbqk3ie1ccv...@4ax.com>,
>>
>> > >The Time Lords Are Gone and it's Spring
>> > >Tra La
>> > >With Promise of Merry Sunshine.
>> > >Old Rassilon Thought He'd Be King
>> > >Tra La
>> > >But The Master Fell Out Of His Ring
>> > >Tra La
>> > >and gave him a Hell of a Time.
>>
>> > I doubt that was the Original Rassilon; just an usurper using the name.
>> > --
>nl2k.ab.ca
>> > God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChri=
>st rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> > Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
>>
>> More likely than that, the Doctor was just *calling* him Rassilon to
>> point out that he was *acting* like he wanted to be the next Rassilon.
>>
>> But in the absence of other evidence, "No, he's really Rassilon,
>> released from his eternal sleep by the Time War" seems like the most
>> likely explanation.
>
>Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon because it was
>Rassilon. Simple.
>
Someone using the name Rassilon.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
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The Doctor
10/10 SP!
Trollsbury forget about the Doctor's mention of not crossing own
time lines.
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God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
The Doctor
SP 2 AS 0 .
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
The Doctor
The Doctor
TB was the 4th Doctor, the rest were faces of Morbius.
Old established facts.
Ignis Fatuus
<stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>"Ignis Fatuus" <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote in message
>news:40e4k5lf5794tggv9...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:31:09 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
>> <solar....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You can doubt all you like you twat but if the producer of the show
>>>> says it's Rassilon, it WAS Rassilon.
>>>
>>>What the producer _says_ isn't canon or continuity or anything like
>>>that. It's merely a statement of intent, nothing more.
>>>
>>>If it wasn't actually established within the story itself that it was
>>>Rassilon then the end result is that it might not necessarily have
>>>been Rasslion, no matter what any number of producers say they
>>>intended.
>>
>> Well The Doctor Called him Rassilon if That's any help. Of course it
>> Had been a long time and The Doctor had just fallen from a great
>> height but his lines Were written by Russell T Davies who must have
>> had a Reason for including the name Rassilon in the Doctor's
>> dialogue...
>
>I don't think RTD had any reason other than giving the more obsessed fans
>something to argue about. In which case, I think it worked! Or maybe it was
>just a nod to the past.
Either will do for me. The minutiae of Time Lord chronology leave me
cold. Perhaps Davies just liked the name. It's a bit more resonant
than Fred.
The Doctor
john smith
"Fred" <koko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f8b8b5ee-69d4-420d...@k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
I'll pass on that one, thanks!
john smith
"solar penguin" <solar....@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:5cf2d4b7-92a1-43dc...@f5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
He was identified as Rassilon by THE DOCTOR! You know - the programme's
lead character? What more evidence do you need, FFS?
(Some of you fans are just loony when it comes to continuity and shit!)
solar penguin
john smith wrote:
> "solar penguin" <solar....@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:5cf2d4b7-92a1-43dc...@f5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > AlanSailsbury wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> You can doubt all you like you twat but if the producer of the show
> >> says it's Rassilon, it WAS Rassilon.
> >
> > What the producer _says_ isn't canon or continuity or anything like
> > that. It's merely a statement of intent, nothing more.
> >
> > If it wasn't actually established within the story itself that it was
> > Rassilon then the end result is that it might not necessarily have
> > been Rasslion, no matter what any number of producers say they
> > intended.
> >
>
>
>
> He was identified as Rassilon by THE DOCTOR! You know - the programme's
> lead character?
No, he was _called_ Rassilon by the Doctor. That's not quite the same
thing.
> What more evidence do you need, FFS?
For a start, evidence that the Doctor was right and that the
character's name really was Rassilon. Followed by evidence that it
was the same Rassilon and not another character with the same name.
And even then, I'll probably able to find a way round it if I really,
really try.
>
> (Some of you fans are just loony when it comes to continuity and shit!)
Don't be silly. It's no more loony than Sherlockians speculating
whether Watson (and/or Holmes and/or Moriarty) was actually a woman in
disguise, or each other in disguise, or anything like that.
solar penguin
solar penguin wrote:
> john smith wrote:
>
> >
> > He was identified as Rassilon by THE DOCTOR! You know - the programme's
> > lead character?
>
> No, he was _called_ Rassilon by the Doctor. That's not quite the same
> thing.
>
> > What more evidence do you need, FFS?
>
> For a start, evidence that the Doctor was right and that the
> character's name really was Rassilon. Followed by evidence that it
> was the same Rassilon and not another character with the same name.
Thinking about it some more, I'd also need evidence that the Doctor's
"Rassilon" remark really was addressed to Dalton. Rassilon could be,
for example, the mysterious woman-in-white Time Lady who may or may
not have been the Doctor's mother/wife/granddaughter/etc.
;-)
Ignis Fatuus
Have you considered watching it? It's amazing what you can pick up
that way.
<Doctor fires gun - machine explodes>
DOCTOR - The link is broken. Back into the Time War Rassilon - back
into Hell.
<close up of Dalton looking cross>
Tra La
solar penguin
Ignis Fatuus wrote:
So _if_ the Doctor is speaking literally and accurately, someone
called Rassilon is one of the Time Lords going back to the Time War.
That includes Dalton, as well as the mysterious Time Lady,and everyone
on Gallifrey, even the original Rassilon in his tomb in the Death
Zone.
The close-up confirms that it was RTD's intent for Dalton to be
Rassilon, I'm not denying that, but it's still just an intent, nothing
more, until it's been definitively established by evidence from a
story with no possible wriggle room for imaginative re-
interpretations.
Ignis Fatuus
<solar....@googlemail.com> wrote:
Frankly my dear... he could be called Fred for all I care. It was a
great scene in a terrific story; It's given me a 'moment' to gloat
over after 40 odd years; but if another writer wants them back they'll
be regenerated with a wave of a sonic screwdriver.
Just enjoy the show (but don't watch the trailer). Leaving aside all
the TL nonsense it's a brilliant piece with some terrific dialogue and
performances.
solar penguin
Ignis Fatuus wrote:
>
> Frankly my dear... he could be called Fred for all I care.
Personally, I still think Dalton was playing a regenerated Romana. ;-)
> It was a great scene in a terrific story;
You mean a great scene in an otherwise fairly weak story.
> It's given me a 'moment' to gloat
> over after 40 odd years; but if another writer wants them back they'll
> be regenerated with a wave of a sonic screwdriver.
>
> Just enjoy the show (but don't watch the trailer). Leaving aside all
> the TL nonsense it's a brilliant piece with some terrific dialogue and
> performances.
The writing is an ugly, bloated mess, that sums up everything that's
gone wrong with TV scriptwriting over recent years.
Like you I was pleased by the fact that RTD resisted the temptation to
permanently bring back the Time Lords and the actors do give some good
performances considering the poor material they've been given, but
it's not enough to save a typical, badly-written piece of modern
television.
I stick with DW out of loyalty for the old days, but the _only_ new
programmes I actively enjoy watching nowadays are the reality
gameshows like X-Factor.
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury
> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
> solar penguin <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>
> >> Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon because it was
> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>
> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, but
> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>
> SP 2 AS 0 .
> --
Don't be an arse Yads. If the ACTUAL TV SHOW says it's Rassilon, it
IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
By the way, Celebrity Big Brother has one of your lot in it
(Evangelicals). He has weird eyes too. Is it an effect of seeing the
light? :-)
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jan 4, 7:40=A0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.=
>com>,
>> solar penguin =A0<solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
>> >> Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon because it was
>> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, but
>> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>>
>> SP 2 AS 0 .
>> --
>
>Don't be an arse Yads. If the ACTUAL TV SHOW says it's Rassilon, it
>IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
Just as much as Queen Elizaeth of today is the Queen Elizabeth of 500
years ago.
>
>By the way, Celebrity Big Brother has one of your lot in it
>(Evangelicals). He has weird eyes too. Is it an effect of seeing the
>light? :-)
>
>
AS is a screwball.
Ross
> "solar penguin" <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
Well now here's an interesting question. In the 40 years of series,
has the Doctor ever used metaphor before? Because if not, then it
would indeed be out of character for the Doctor to call someone
'Rassilon' unless that was his name.
I suppose he calls the Racnoss queen's robots 'Pilotfish' in 'The
Christmas Invasion', but I don't know if that counts.
He called the brigade leader in 'Rememberance of the Daleks'
"Brigadier", with clear intent to liken the two characters.
(For the record, I don't think the Doctor's tone conveys that he's
using analogy or sarcasm, and assume he is indeed being entirely
literal, but for you to say that it's crazy to think anything else is
just bullshit. )
Stephen O'Connell
news:hi3c3c$lpp$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <9cab8458-6447-4f50...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>On Jan 4, 7:40=A0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>>> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.=
>>com>,
>>> solar penguin =A0<solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>>
>>> >> Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon because it was
>>> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>>
>>> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, but
>>> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>>>
>>> SP 2 AS 0 .
>>
>>IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>
> Just as much as Queen Elizaeth of today is the Queen Elizabeth of 500
> years ago.
Well the Lord President in the End of Time could have been Rassilon II, or if he
has had six wives it could also be President Rassilon VIII... or it could just
be the original guy brought back because the Time Lords are very powerful and
can do things like that. But whatever, his name was Rassilon.
The Doctor
WILL GILLIES
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 15:32:35 -0800 (PST), Fred <kokol...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >One storyarc I think would be interesting is to have there be a small
> >group of Time Lords that survive the Time War. They have no home
> >planet, no technology, no powers, and no place to go. The Doctor
> >decides to settle them on Earth where they can serve as a team of
> >scientific advisors to UNIT, with the Doctor occasionally checking up
> >on them and keeping them out of trouble.
>
> >In effect, its the reverse of the 3rd Doctor's own exile to Earth.
>
WILL GILLIES
you are immortal, as well as being an Imorrtal timelord, then your
going to have in theory limitless regenerations.
" And so it came to pass, in the first/last days of the great time
war, that Rassilon himself did emerge from the Dark tower, to lead
Gallifrey to war. And he took control of the High Council, retaking
the mantle of President"
It has a very Arthurian like legend.
it is possible that The Doctor something to do with that too....
Hulahoop
> "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:hi3c3c$lpp$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>
>
>
>
>
> > AlanSailsbury <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>On Jan 4, 7:40=A0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
> >>> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.=
> >>com>,
> >>> solar penguin =A0<solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>
> >>> >> Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon because it was
> >>> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>
> >>> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, but
> >>> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>
> >>> SP 2 AS 0 .
>
> >>Don't be an arse Yads. If the ACTUAL TV SHOW says it's Rassilon, it
> >>IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>
> > Just as much as Queen Elizaeth of today is the Queen Elizabeth of 500
> > years ago.
>
> Well the Lord President in the End of Time could have been Rassilon II, or if he
> has had six wives it could also be President Rassilon VIII... or it could just
> be the original guy brought back because the Time Lords are very powerful and
>
> - Show quoted text -
If they can bring back the Master for the time war, why wouldn't they
bring back Rassilon? Seems consistent enough behaviour to me
Regards
Ged
Monsieur Tabernac
But wasn't Rassilon the "first" Time Lord? Their technology might not
have been sufficiently advanced during those early, ancient days for
them to be able to scoop him up in later days.
Or whatever. Who knows? Or does he...
pbo...@aol.com
> Ignis Fatuus wrote:
>
> > Frankly my dear... he could be called Fred for all I care.
>
> Personally, I still think Dalton was playing a regenerated Romana. ;-)
>
> > It was a great scene in a terrific story;
>
> You mean a great scene in an otherwise fairly weak story.
I think he means a dreadful scene in an awful piece of tripe that was
completely redeemed in his eyes purely by virtue of getting rid of the
Time Lords.
> Like you I was pleased by the fact that RTD resisted the temptation to
> permanently bring back the Time Lords and the actors do give some good
> performances considering the poor material they've been given, but
> it's not enough to save a typical, badly-written piece of modern
> television.
Oh no, it was much worse than a typical piece of modern television -
and I'm still not seeing how anyone can claim Dalton's performance was
anything other than a hammed-up panto act.
> I stick with DW out of loyalty for the old days, but the _only_ new
> programmes I actively enjoy watching nowadays are the reality
> gameshows like X-Factor.
Okay, then we can discount any comments you might make on the subject
of TV quality in future...
Phil
Stephen Wilson
"Ross" <rras...@trenchcoatsoft.com> wrote in message
news:af28ae3d-47f4-43eb...@e20g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 5, 12:26 am, "john smith" <the_johnsm...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> "solar penguin" <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:5cf2d4b7-92a1-43dc...@f5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
>> >> You can doubt all you like you twat but if the producer of the show
>> >> says it's Rassilon, it WAS Rassilon.
>>
>> > What the producer _says_ isn't canon or continuity or anything like
>> > that. It's merely a statement of intent, nothing more.
>>
>> > If it wasn't actually established within the story itself that it was
>> > Rassilon then the end result is that it might not necessarily have
>> > been Rasslion, no matter what any number of producers say they
>> > intended.
>>
>> He was identified as Rassilon by THE DOCTOR! You know - the programme's
>> lead character? What more evidence do you need, FFS?
>>
>> (Some of you fans are just loony when it comes to continuity and shit!)
>
>Well now here's an interesting question. In the 40 years of series,
>has the Doctor ever used metaphor before? Because if not, then it
>would indeed be out of character for the Doctor to call someone
>'Rassilon' unless that was his name.
Did you ever see Trial of a Time Lord? The 6th Doctor called the Valeyard
lots of things, but rarely called him "the Valeyard".
The first Doctor rarely managed to get Ian's name correct.
The 9th Doctor was quite often rude to Mickey.
Etc...
john smith
<pbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fecf1da1-409c-4a59...@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
LOL! Damn right!
john smith
"AlanSailsbury" <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9cab8458-6447-4f50...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
See what a loony he turned out to be last night? Fucking Evangelical
Christians are all batshit crazy!
The Doctor
Please review the end of The 5 Doctors.
The Doctor
Hulahoop <sween...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 8, 12:51=A0am, "Stephen O'Connell" <no.s...@fk.u.com> wrote:
>> "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>
>> news:hi3c3c$lpp$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>s.com>,
>> > AlanSailsbury =A0<alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>On Jan 4, 7:40=3DA0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> >>> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.googlegro=
>ups.=3D
>> >>com>,>> >>> >> Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon because it =
>was
>> >>> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> >>> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, bu=
>t
>> >>> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>>
>> >>> SP 2 AS 0 .
>>
>> >>Don't be an arse Yads. If the ACTUAL TV SHOW says it's Rassilon, it
>> >>IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>>
>> > Just as much as Queen Elizaeth of today is the Queen Elizabeth of 500
>> > years ago.
>>
>r if he
>> has had six wives it could also be President Rassilon VIII... or it could=
> just
>> be the original guy brought back because the Time Lords are very powerful=
> and
>> can do things like that. But whatever, his name was Rassilon.- Hide quote=
>d text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>If they can bring back the Master for the time war, why wouldn't they
>bring back Rassilon? Seems consistent enough behaviour to me
>
>Regards
>
>Ged
REcall T5D. Rassilon would be mad if resurrected.
AlanSailsbury
I'm sure my opinion doesn't matter to you Iggy but having just read
your comment I'm pleased that you enjoyed the episode. I had wrongly
assumed you'd be watching it to spite yourself but it sounds like it
was worthwhile for you, so good on you.
AlanSailsbury
> In article <9cab8458-6447-4f50-9b5b-3e7dcbd01...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> AlanSailsbury <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >On Jan 4, 7:40=A0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
> >> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.=
> >com>,
> >> solar penguin =A0<solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>
> >> >> Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon because it was
> >> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>
> >> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, but
> >> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>
> >> SP 2 AS 0 .
> >> --
>
> >Don't be an arse Yads. If the ACTUAL TV SHOW says it's Rassilon, it
> >IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>
> Just as much as Queen Elizaeth of today is the Queen Elizabeth of 500
> years ago.
>
Fact is, he IS Rassilon in the script. Any fanboy attempt to PRETEND
it's a different Rassilon is plain daft! These characters do not exist
outside of fiction, so inventing some cobbled fanwank to fit up
Rassilon as a fake or "new" Rassilon is totally, utterly pointless!
No wonder the cast and crew think some fans are fucking loonies!
AlanSailsbury
> "AlanSailsbury" <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
I don't watch it John. What did he do? (Always interesting to hear
what the "enemy" have been up to. ;-))
Ignis Fatuus
For what it's worth, I'd have given it unstinting praise if the Time
Lords Had been reinstated. Simm and Dalton were terrific OTT villains;
but for me it was Cribbins' show as much as Tennant's, and they
couldn't have been better. You could hear a pin drop when Wilf knocked
on the door - the first time DW's sent a shiver down my spine since I
was a kid. Perhaps I should have seen it coming but I didn't; but I
felt the bitter irony raging right the way through Tennant's speech.
I feel entitled to a (probably fleeting) gloat after forty years; but
I'd prefer to have seen a more positive response to some of the best
writing that the series has produced.
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jan 5, 12:22=A0pm, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:49:51 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
>>
>>
>>
>> <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Ignis Fatuus wrote:
>>
>> >> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:18:51 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
>> >> <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >solar penguin wrote:
>>
>> >> >> john smith wrote:
>>
>ogramme's
>> >> >> > lead character?
>>
>> >> >> No, he was _called_ Rassilon by the Doctor. =A0That's not quite the=
> same
>> >> >> thing.
>>
>> >> >> > What more evidence do you need, FFS?
>>
>> >> >> For a start, evidence that the Doctor was right and that the
>it
>> >> >> was the same Rassilon and not another character with the same name.
>>
>> >> >Thinking about it some more, I'd also need evidence that the Doctor's
Now there is a goog Sailsbury.
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jan 7, 1:06=A0am, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> In article <9cab8458-6447-4f50-9b5b-3e7dcbd01...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.=
>com>,
>>
>>
>>
>> AlanSailsbury =A0<alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >On Jan 4, 7:40=3DA0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> >> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.googlegrou=
>ps.=3D
>> >com>,>> >> >> Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon because it w=
>as
>> >> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> >> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, but
>> >> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>>
>> >> SP 2 AS 0 .
>> >> --
>>
>> >Don't be an arse Yads. If the ACTUAL TV SHOW says it's Rassilon, it
>> >IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>>
>> Just as much as Queen Elizaeth of today is the Queen Elizabeth of 500
>> years ago.
>>
>
>
>Fact is, he IS Rassilon in the script. Any fanboy attempt to PRETEND
>it's a different Rassilon is plain daft! These characters do not exist
>outside of fiction, so inventing some cobbled fanwank to fit up
>Rassilon as a fake or "new" Rassilon is totally, utterly pointless!
>
>No wonder the cast and crew think some fans are fucking loonies!
>
A Rassilon NOT THE RAssilon unless proven otherwise.
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jan 7, 7:39=A0pm, "john smith" <the_johnsm...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> "AlanSailsbury" <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> news:9cab8458-6447-4f50...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jan 4, 7:40 pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > In article
>> > <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
>> > solar penguin <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
>s
>> > >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> > >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, but
>> > >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>>
>> > SP 2 AS 0 .
>> > --
>>
>> Don't be an arse Yads. If the ACTUAL TV SHOW says it's Rassilon, it
>> IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>>
>> By the way, Celebrity Big Brother has one of your lot in it
>> (Evangelicals). He has weird eyes too. Is it an effect of seeing the
>> light? :-)
>>
>> Christians are all batcrazy!
>
>I don't watch it John. What did he do? (Always interesting to hear
>what the "enemy" have been up to. ;-))
>
Loonie troll such as smith and Sailsbury for you.
pbo...@aol.com
I can't deny it - I found it a truly dreadful episode, and Dalton's
scenery-chewing far *too* over-the-top pantomime (Simm, on the other
hand, got his performance spot on despite his lousy material), but
Wilf's knocking was inspired - one of the only times in the RTD era
where the season catchphrase has actually paid off. But as Aggy
pointed out, making it 16+ knocks slightly spoiled the effect after
the first four...
Perhaps I should have seen it coming but I didn't; but I
> felt the bitter irony raging right the way through Tennant's speech.
While I thought that bit brought the whole thing crashing down once
again.
Phil
john smith
Just the usual shite... Reading out extracts from the Bible in a totally
in-your-face attempt at preaching to the unconverted. Tonight he admitted
to being a Creatonist and stated that the existence of monkeys proves it!
"How can we have evolved from monkeys when the monkeys are still here?"
Moron!
AlanSailsbury
> In article <343f774d-53b9-43d4-8c4e-21c0a495d...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
Why are you being so bloody stupid over this? Next you'll be saying
it's only been "A" Doctor since 2005 not THE Doctor because we didn't
see McGann regenerate. See how stupid that would be? That's how silly
you're being in not accepting this was Rassilon! What is your problem
accepting what the SCRIPT and ACTORS said it was?
AlanSailsbury
> In article <f9f6dbff-8f31-4a18-b2d0-69a086572...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
LOL! Says the simpleton who still believes in outdated superstition.
AlanSailsbury
I saw the four knocks coming so that scene didn't send a chill down my
spine but it was still very well done. I know The Doctor's tantrum has
upset some people but I thought it was keeping in character with the
way things had been developing. And regardless of what some think, The
Doctor was being sarcastic when he said Wilf wasn't important etc. We
knew, and The Doctor knew, that he would never abandon Wilf to such a
fate. If anything The Doctor was having a go at himself not Wilf in
that scene.
I doubt we'll see young Matt Smith show such a wide range of emotions
(or at least play them so well) but I hope to be surprised.
AlanSailsbury
LOL! I've heard fundies say that before. They're totally nuts, but
worryingly their influence is growing. These imbeciles will try to
bring about an "end of the world" scenario just to prove their fucking
bible prophesies right! I really hate the cunts with a passion.
They're the blight on what could be a beautiful world. How DARE they
preach their shit to us?
The Doctor
The smith and Sailsbury show continues!
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jan 7, 6:28=A0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> In article <343f774d-53b9-43d4-8c4e-21c0a495d...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.=>> >On Jan 7, 1:06=3DA0am, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> >> In article <9cab8458-6447-4f50-9b5b-3e7dcbd01...@a6g2000yqm.googlegrou=
>ps.=3D
>> >com>,
>>
>> >> AlanSailsbury =3DA0<alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> >On Jan 4, 7:40=3D3DA0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> >> >> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.googleg=
>rou=3D
>> >ps.=3D3D
>> >> >com>,
>> >> >> solar penguin =3D3DA0<solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
>t w=3D
>> >as
>> >> >> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> >> >> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, =
>but
>> >> >> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>>
>> >> >> SP 2 AS 0 .
>> >> >> --
>>
>> >> >Don't be an arse Yads. If the ACTUAL TV SHOW says it's Rassilon, it
>> >> >IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>>
>> >> Just as much as Queen Elizaeth of today is the Queen Elizabeth of 500
>> >> years ago.
>>
>> >Fact is, he IS Rassilon in the script. Any fanboy attempt to PRETEND
>> >it's a different Rassilon is plain daft! These characters do not exist
>> >outside of fiction, so inventing some cobbled fanwank to fit up
>> >Rassilon as a fake or "new" Rassilon is totally, utterly pointless!
>>
>> >No wonder the cast and crew think some fans are fucking loonies!
>>
>> A Rassilon NOT THE RAssilon unless proven otherwise.
>> --
>
>Why are you being so bloody stupid over this? Next you'll be saying
>it's only been "A" Doctor since 2005 not THE Doctor because we didn't
>see McGann regenerate. See how stupid that would be? That's how silly
>you're being in not accepting this was Rassilon! What is your problem
>accepting what the SCRIPT and ACTORS said it was?
>
>
It is called proven THE definite article.
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jan 7, 6:29=A0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> In article <f9f6dbff-8f31-4a18-b2d0-69a086572...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.=
>com>,
>>
>>
>>
>> AlanSailsbury =A0<alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >On Jan 7, 7:39=3DA0pm, "john smith" <the_johnsm...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> >> "AlanSailsbury" <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>.
>> >> On Jan 4, 7:40 pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>>
>> >> > In article
>> >> > <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> > solar penguin <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
> wa=3D
>> >s
>> >> > >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> >> > >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, b=
>ut
>> >> > >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>>
>> >> > SP 2 AS 0 .
>> >> > --
>>
>> >> Don't be an arse Yads. If the ACTUAL TV SHOW says it's Rassilon, it
>> >> IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>>
>> >> By the way, Celebrity Big Brother has one of your lot in it
>> >> (Evangelicals). He has weird eyes too. Is it an effect of seeing the
>> >> light? :-)
>>
>> >> Christians are all batcrazy!
>>
>> >I don't watch it John. What did he do? (Always interesting to hear
>> >what the "enemy" have been up to. ;-))
>>
>> Loonie troll such as smith and Sailsbury for you.
>> --
>
>LOL! Says the simpleton who still believes in outdated superstition.
>
>
>
Trolls irrational SAilsbury.
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jan 7, 6:19=A0pm, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:32:23 -0800 (PST), AlanSailsbury
>>
>>
>>
>> <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:49:51 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
>>
>> >> <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >Ignis Fatuus wrote:
>>
>> >> >> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:18:51 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
>> >> >> <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >solar penguin wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> john smith wrote:
>>
> programme's
>> >> >> >> > lead character?
>>
>> >> >> >> No, he was _called_ Rassilon by the Doctor. =A0That's not quite =
>the same
>> >> >> >> thing.
>>
>> >> >> >> > What more evidence do you need, FFS?
>>
>> >> >> >> For a start, evidence that the Doctor was right and that the
>at it
>> >> >> >> was the same Rassilon and not another character with the same na=
>me.
>>
>> >> >> >Thinking about it some more, I'd also need evidence that the Docto=
>r's
>> >> >> >"Rassilon" remark really was addressed to Dalton. =A0Rassilon coul=
>d be,
>> >> >> >for example, the mysterious woman-in-white Time Lady who may or ma=
>y
>> >> >> >not have been the Doctor's mother/wife/granddaughter/etc.
>> >> >> >;-)
>>
>> >> >> Have you considered watching it? It's amazing what you can pick up
>> >> >> that way.
>>
>> >> >> <Doctor fires gun - machine explodes>
>> >> >> DOCTOR - The link is broken. Back into the Time War Rassilon - back
>> >> >> into Hell.
>> >> >> <close up of Dalton looking cross>
>>
>> >> >> Tra La
>>
>> >> >So _if_ the Doctor is speaking literally and accurately, someone
>> >> >called Rassilon is one of the Time Lords going back to the Time War.
>e
>> >> >on Gallifrey, even the original Rassilon in his tomb in the Death
>> >> >Zone.
>>
>> >> >The close-up confirms that it was RTD's intent for Dalton to be
Await with patience!!
The Doctor
AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Jan 7, 11:56=A0pm, "john smith" <the_johnsm...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> "AlanSailsbury" <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> news:f9f6dbff-8f31-4a18...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jan 7, 7:39 pm, "john smith" <the_johnsm...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "AlanSailsbury" <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> >news:9cab8458-6447-4f50...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Jan 4, 7:40 pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>>
>> > > In article
>> > > <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
>> > > solar penguin <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
>was
>> > > >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> > > >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, bu=
>t
>> > > >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>>
>> > > SP 2 AS 0 .
>> > > --
>>
>> > Don't be an arse Yads. If the ACTUAL TV SHOW says it's Rassilon, it
>> > IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>>
>> > By the way, Celebrity Big Brother has one of your lot in it
>> > (Evangelicals). He has weird eyes too. Is it an effect of seeing the
>> > light? :-)
>>
>> > See what a loony he turned out to be last night? Fucking Evangelical
>> > Christians are all batshit crazy!
>>
>> I don't watch it John. What did he do? (Always interesting to hear
>> what the "enemy" have been up to. ;-))
>>
>ly
>> in-your-face attempt at preaching to the unconverted. =A0Tonight he admit=
>ted
>> to being a Creatonist and stated that the existence of monkeys proves it!
>> "How can we have evolved from monkeys when the monkeys are still here?"
>>
>> Moron!
>
>LOL! I've heard fundies say that before. They're totally nuts, but
>worryingly their influence is growing. These imbeciles will try to
>bring about an "end of the world" scenario just to prove their fucking
>bible prophesies right! I really hate the cunts with a passion.
>They're the blight on what could be a beautiful world. How DARE they
>preach their shit to us?
>
>
>
>
>
2 troll clowns smith & Sailsbury for you.
The Face of Po
pbo...@aol.com got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:>> [...] You could hear a pin drop when Wilf knocked
>> on the door - the first time DW's sent a shiver down my spine since I
>> was a kid.
>
> I can't deny it - I found it a truly dreadful episode, and Dalton's
> scenery-chewing far *too* over-the-top pantomime (Simm, on the other
> hand, got his performance spot on despite his lousy material), but
> Wilf's knocking was inspired - one of the only times in the RTD era
> where the season catchphrase has actually paid off. But as Aggy
> pointed out, making it 16+ knocks slightly spoiled the effect after
> the first four...
He knocked four times, four times :-)
Had *he* heard the "knock four times" prophecy at any point? Because
even though the audience saw its significance immediately, it would be
interesting to know whether Wilf realised it (before the Doctor
explained about the radiation).
--
Happiness will prevail
F�achad�ir
<gkenn...@potatojunkie.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.arts.drwho when
>pbo...@aol.com got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
>> On 7 Jan, 23:19, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>>> [...] You could hear a pin drop when Wilf knocked
>>> on the door - the first time DW's sent a shiver down my spine since I
>>> was a kid.
>>
>> I can't deny it - I found it a truly dreadful episode, and Dalton's
>> scenery-chewing far *too* over-the-top pantomime (Simm, on the other
>> hand, got his performance spot on despite his lousy material), but
>> Wilf's knocking was inspired - one of the only times in the RTD era
>> where the season catchphrase has actually paid off. But as Aggy
>> pointed out, making it 16+ knocks slightly spoiled the effect after
>> the first four...
>
>He knocked four times, four times :-)
>
>Had *he* heard the "knock four times" prophecy at any point? Because
In the Cafe scene, the Doctor told him.
>even though the audience saw its significance immediately, it would be
>interesting to know whether Wilf realised it (before the Doctor
>explained about the radiation).
--
'Donegal: Up Here It's Different'
� F�achad�ir
Stephen Wilson
"The Face of Po" <gkenn...@potatojunkie.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:hi7cco$2tn$2...@spuduser.motzarella.org...
Didn't you see the cafe scene? The Doctor told Wilf all about the prophecy!
The Doctor
Wake up!
john smith
"Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:o8L1n.19103$It5....@newsfe03.ams2...
Bit cruel of Wilf then, rubbing salt in the wounds like that! He could've
had the decency to knock twice or summat...
The Face of Po
I thought he might have done, but couldn't remember - I hadn't rewatched
part 1 before seeing part 2. And I think I'd have preferred the
situation in which Wilf doesn't know, and so it "clicks" for the Doctor
(and the audience) before Wilf realises, to the one in which Wilf
reluctantly (or unthinkingly) fulfills the prophecy.
--
Happiness will prevail
Soze
There is simply no reason for RTD to have called the character Rassilon if
it wasn`t intended to be *the* Rassilon. Nor is there any reason to suggest
the Doctor would have known him if he was just Joe Rassilon from the corner
shop. Nothing we`ve ever seen in the series suggests that Rassilon is a
title used in the same way as King or Queen. This was Rassilon, deal with
it.
Stephen Wilson
"Soze" <I...@salsbury42.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7qrvoi...@mid.individual.net...
Yeah, but no, but yeah, but...
RTD knows the way Dr Who fandom works. And he loves toying with it. He knew
that fans would start debating about who the mysterious woman was (Romana.
The Rani. Susan. Susan's mother. Etc). And he knew that calling the
president "Rassilon" would get fans arguing with each other too.
But you know the way RTD works. He comes up with some iconic scene that he
knows he wants to arrive at (e.g. he knew he wanted the 10th Doctor
surrounded with broken glass and someone tapping) and then works backwards
from there. There was never a plan for the guy doing the tapping to be Wilf.
Could have been anyone - at least anyone who was "ordinary". And there was
probably never a plan for the president of the Time Lords to be called
Rassilon. I think he just threw that into the mix for fun.
Monsieur Tabernac
<stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> A Rassilon NOT THE RAssilon unless proven otherwise.
>>
>> There is simply no reason for RTD to have called the character Rassilon if
>> it wasn`t intended to be *the* Rassilon. Nor is there any reason to
>> suggest the Doctor would have known him if he was just Joe Rassilon from
>> the corner shop. Nothing we`ve ever seen in the series suggests that
>> Rassilon is a title used in the same way as King or Queen. This was
>> Rassilon, deal with it.
>
>Yeah, but no, but yeah, but...
>
>RTD knows the way Dr Who fandom works. And he loves toying with it. He knew
>that fans would start debating about who the mysterious woman was (Romana.
>The Rani. Susan. Susan's mother. Etc). And he knew that calling the
>president "Rassilon" would get fans arguing with each other too.
>
>But you know the way RTD works. He comes up with some iconic scene that he
>knows he wants to arrive at (e.g. he knew he wanted the 10th Doctor
>surrounded with broken glass and someone tapping) and then works backwards
>from there. There was never a plan for the guy doing the tapping to be Wilf.
>Could have been anyone - at least anyone who was "ordinary". And there was
>probably never a plan for the president of the Time Lords to be called
>Rassilon. I think he just threw that into the mix for fun.
>
Interestingly, according to the commentary, RTD was going to have the
Doctor sacrifice his life for the non-descript extra who was
originally in the magic box (and who was released by Wilf). His
thought was that it was completely in character for the Doctor to
sacrifice himself for a complete stranger. (As an added note, this
non-descript character was called "Trevor Anderson").
I'm not sure about the Rassilon business, though. Throughout the
commentary, RTD refers to him as "Rassilon" (but with no explanation
of who Rassilon was, or why he's suddenly the President of the Time
Lords again).
The Face of Po
Did the commentary go on to say why they changed this? It would have
fitted in with my slight preference for the knocker not to know
significance of his knocking, for one thing.
--
Happiness will prevail
The Doctor
WILL GILLIES
> In article <bc3bcb6b-7bb7-469a-a2c3-d24a25d8a...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Hulahoop <sweeney...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 8, 12:51=A0am, "Stephen O'Connell" <no.s...@fk.u.com> wrote:
> >> "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>
> >>news:hi3c3c$lpp$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>
> >> > In article <9cab8458-6447-4f50-9b5b-3e7dcbd01...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroup=
> >s.com>,
> >> > AlanSailsbury =A0<alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >>On Jan 4, 7:40=3DA0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
> >ups.=3D
> >> >>com>,
> >> >>> solar penguin =3DA0<solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>
> >was
> >> >>> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>
> >> >>> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, bu=
> >t
> >> >>> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>
> >> >>> SP 2 AS 0 .
>
> >> >>IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>
> >> > Just as much as Queen Elizaeth of today is the Queen Elizabeth of 500
> >> > years ago.
>
> >r if he
> >> has had six wives it could also be President Rassilon VIII... or it could=
> > just
> >> be the original guy brought back because the Time Lords are very powerful=
> > and
> >> can do things like that. But whatever, his name was Rassilon.- Hide quote=
> >d text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >If they can bring back the Master for the time war, why wouldn't they
> >bring back Rassilon? Seems consistent enough behaviour to me
>
> >Regards
>
> >Ged
>
> REcall T5D. Rassilon would be mad if resurrected.> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
My dear boy, how can you Ressurect an Immortal?
The Doctor
WILL GILLIES <WILLG...@YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:
>On 7 Jan, 19:56, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>.com>,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hulahoop =A0<sweeney...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Jan 8, 12:51=3DA0am, "Stephen O'Connell" <no.s...@fk.u.com> wrote:
>> >> "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:hi3c3c$lpp$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>>
>oup=3D
>> >s.com>,
>> >> > AlanSailsbury =3DA0<alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> >>On Jan 4, 7:40=3D3DA0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote=
>:
>> >> >>> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.google=
>gro=3D
>> >ups.=3D3D
>> >> >>com>,
>> >> >>> solar penguin =3D3DA0<solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
>it =3D
>> >was
>> >> >>> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> >> >>> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points,=
> bu=3D
>> >t
>> >> >>> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warrior
>>
>> >> >>> SP 2 AS 0 .
>>
>> >> >>Don't be an arse Yads. If the ACTUAL TV SHOW says it's Rassilon, it
>> >> >>IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>>
>0
>> >> > years ago.
>>
>> >> Well the Lord President in the End of Time could have been Rassilon II=
>, o=3D
>> >r if he
>> >> has had six wives it could also be President Rassilon VIII... or it co=
>uld=3D
>> > just
>> >> be the original guy brought back because the Time Lords are very power=
>ful=3D
>> > and
>> >> can do things like that. But whatever, his name was Rassilon.- Hide qu=
>ote=3D
>> >d text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >If they can bring back the Master for the time war, why wouldn't they
>>
>> >Regards
>>
>> >Ged
>>
>> REcall T5D. =A0Rassilon would be mad if resurrected.
>> --
>> Member - Liberal International =A0This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl=
>2k.ab.ca
>> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist=
> rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>My dear boy, how can you Ressurect an Immortal?
IS he Immortal?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
WILL GILLIES
> In article <4240fa7d-275f-41f1-83ad-bb75c97f6...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rassilon
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Rassilon
from the second site
"Many rumours also surround Rassilon's death. One stated that the Time
Lords had revolted against him and imprisoned him in the Dark Tower in
the Death Zone. Borusa, Lord President and the Doctor's former mentor,
believed that Rassilon had discovered a form of true immortality
beyond the regenerations known to Time Lords. Borusa uncovered and
used several artefacts from the Dark Times, including the Coronet of
Rassilon (a mind control device) and the Game of Rassilon. The Doctor
discovered the truth when his mentor Borusa used him to try and
discover Rassilon's secret: Rassilon did indeed discover immortality,
but realised it was too dangerous a secret to share. Borusa was
condemned to immortality as a living statue, imprisoned immobile in
Rassilon's tomb. (DW: The Five Doctors) "
WILL GILLIES
> In article <4240fa7d-275f-41f1-83ad-bb75c97f6...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
If Rassilon wasn't immortal, why did Borusa do all that stuff with the
time scoop in the Five Doctors?
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Ring_of_Rassilon
I know it was a trap, but maybe rassilon himself was immortal. He
didn't need the ring.
WG
The Doctor
WILL GILLIES <WILLG...@YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:
>On 12 Jan, 22:49, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>com>,
>> WILLGILLIES=A0<WILLGILL...@YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 7 Jan, 19:56, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>ups=3D
>> >.com>,
>>
>> >> Hulahoop =3DA0<sweeney...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Jan 8, 12:51=3D3DA0am, "Stephen O'Connell" <no.s...@fk.u.com> wrot=
>e:
>> >> >> "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>
>> >> >>news:hi3c3c$lpp$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>>
>egr=3D
>> >oup=3D3D
>> >> >s.com>,
>> >> >> > AlanSailsbury =3D3DA0<alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> >> >>On Jan 4, 7:40=3D3D3DA0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) =
>wrote=3D
>> >:
>> >> >> >>> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.goo=
>gle=3D
>> >gro=3D3D
>> >> >ups.=3D3D3D
>> >> >> >>com>,
>> >> >> >>> solar penguin =3D3D3DA0<solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
>se =3D
>> >it =3D3D
>> >> >was
>> >> >> >>> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> >> >> >>> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two poin=
>ts,=3D
>> > bu=3D3D
>> >> >t
>> >> >> >>> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warr=
>ior
>>
>> >> >> >>> SP 2 AS 0 .
>>
>it
>> >> >> >>IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>>
> 50=3D
>> >0
>> >> >> > years ago.
>>
>> >> >> Well the Lord President in the End of Time could have been Rassilon=
> II=3D
>> >, o=3D3D
>> >> >r if he
>> >> >> has had six wives it could also be President Rassilon VIII... or it=
> co=3D
>> >uld=3D3D
>> >> > just
>> >> >> be the original guy brought back because the Time Lords are very po=
>wer=3D
>> >ful=3D3D
>> >> > and
>> >> >> can do things like that. But whatever, his name was Rassilon.- Hide=
> qu=3D
>> >ote=3D3D
>> >> >d text -
>>
>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> >If they can bring back the Master for the time war, why wouldn't they
>>
>> >> >Regards
>>
>> >> >Ged
>>
>> >> REcall T5D. =3DA0Rassilon would be mad if resurrected.
>> >> --
>> >> Member - Liberal International =3DA0This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc.=
>..@nl=3D
>> >2k.ab.ca
>> >> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChr=
>ist=3D
>> > rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> >> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >My dear boy, how can you Ressurect an Immortal?
>>
>> IS he Immortal?
>> --
>> Member - Liberal International =A0This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl=
>2k.ab.ca
>> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist=
> rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Rassilon
>from the second site
>"Many rumours also surround Rassilon's death. One stated that the Time
>Lords had revolted against him and imprisoned him in the Dark Tower in
>the Death Zone. Borusa, Lord President and the Doctor's former mentor,
>believed that Rassilon had discovered a form of true immortality
>beyond the regenerations known to Time Lords. Borusa uncovered and
>used several artefacts from the Dark Times, including the Coronet of
>Rassilon (a mind control device) and the Game of Rassilon. The Doctor
>discovered the truth when his mentor Borusa used him to try and
>discover Rassilon's secret: Rassilon did indeed discover immortality,
>but realised it was too dangerous a secret to share. Borusa was
>condemned to immortality as a living statue, imprisoned immobile in
>Rassilon's tomb. (DW: The Five Doctors) "
>
Those rumours were disspelled at the end of T5D.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
The Doctor
WILL GILLIES <WILLG...@YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:
>On 12 Jan, 22:49, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>com>,
>> WILLGILLIES=A0<WILLGILL...@YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 7 Jan, 19:56, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>ups=3D
>> >.com>,
>>
>> >> Hulahoop =3DA0<sweeney...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Jan 8, 12:51=3D3DA0am, "Stephen O'Connell" <no.s...@fk.u.com> wrot=
>e:
>>
>> >> >>news:hi3c3c$lpp$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>>
>egr=3D
>> >oup=3D3D
>> >> >s.com>,
>> >> >> > AlanSailsbury =3D3DA0<alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> >> >>On Jan 4, 7:40=3D3D3DA0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) =
>wrote=3D
>> >:
>> >> >> >>> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.goo=
>gle=3D
>> >gro=3D3D
>> >> >ups.=3D3D3D
>> >> >> >>com>,
>> >> >> >>> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
>se =3D
>> >it =3D3D
>> >> >> >>> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> >> >> >>> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two poin=
>ts,=3D
>> > bu=3D3D
>> >> >t
>> >> >> >>> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time Warr=
>ior
>>
>> >> >> >>> SP 2 AS 0 .
>>
>it
>> >> >> >>IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>>
> 50=3D
>> >0
>> >> >> > years ago.
>>
>> >> >> Well the Lord President in the End of Time could have been Rassilon=
> II=3D
>> >, o=3D3D
>> >> >r if he
>> >> >> has had six wives it could also be President Rassilon VIII... or it=
> co=3D
>> >uld=3D3D
>> >> > just
>> >> >> be the original guy brought back because the Time Lords are very po=
>wer=3D
>> >ful=3D3D
>> >> > and
>> >> >> can do things like that. But whatever, his name was Rassilon.- Hide=
> qu=3D
>> >ote=3D3D
>> >> >d text -
>>
>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> >If they can bring back the Master for the time war, why wouldn't they
>>
>> >> >Regards
>>
>> >> >Ged
>>
>> >> REcall T5D. =3DA0Rassilon would be mad if resurrected.
>> >> -->> >2k.ab.ca
>> >> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChr=
>ist=3D
>> > rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> >> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >My dear boy, how can you Ressurect an Immortal?
>>
>> IS he Immortal?
>> --
>> Member - Liberal International =A0This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl=
>2k.ab.ca
>> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist=
> rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>time scoop in the Five Doctors?
>http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Ring_of_Rassilon
>I know it was a trap, but maybe rassilon himself was immortal. He
>didn't need the ring.
>
>WG
Just remember to lose is to win and he who wins loses.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
WILL GILLIES
> In article <7a4e1a09-fc87-4402-916a-6120f5f5a...@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
No that was a deliberate trap.
Rassilon was immortal. And it makes sense he would return to lead his
people to glory in war, but ultimatley condemn them.
Hmmm, maybe the Master was brought back by Rassilon. they had met.
Also, that was one cool guantlet.
Ross
Given how dismissive Rassilon was of the Master, it seems more likely
that happened either before his return to power (THe Doctor mentions
that the Master wasn't around for the later parts of the war) or while
his attention was elsewhere.
Even if Rassilon had originally been every bit as good and noble as
the official histories claimed, we know that he did have a ruthless
streak in him, and it's not hard to see how he might have crossed the
line in situation as dire as the time war (Heck, the Doctor himself
came close)
The Doctor
WILL GILLIES <WILLG...@YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:
>On 14 Jan, 21:23, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>.com>,
>> WILL GILLIES =A0<WILLGILL...@YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 12 Jan, 22:49, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>ps.=3D
>> >com>,
>> >> WILLGILLIES=3DA0<WILLGILL...@YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On 7 Jan, 19:56, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>gro=3D
>> >ups=3D3D
>> >> >.com>,
>>
>> >> >> Hulahoop =3D3DA0<sweeney...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >On Jan 8, 12:51=3D3D3DA0am, "Stephen O'Connell" <no.s...@fk.u.com>=
> wrot=3D
>> >e:
>> >> >> >> "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>
>> >> >> >>news:hi3c3c$lpp$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>>
>ogl=3D
>> >egr=3D3D
>> >> >oup=3D3D3D
>> >> >> >s.com>,
>> >> >> >> > AlanSailsbury =3D3D3DA0<alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>On Jan 4, 7:40=3D3D3D3DA0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doc=
>tor) =3D
>> >wrote=3D3D
>> >> >:
>> >> >> >> >>> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yqi.=
>goo=3D
>> >gle=3D3D
>> >> >gro=3D3D3D
>> >> >> >ups.=3D3D3D3D
>> >> >> >> >>com>,
>> >> >> >> >>> solar penguin =3D3D3D3DA0<solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrot=
>e:
>> >> >> >> >>> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> >>> >> Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon be=
>cau=3D
>> >se =3D3D
>> >> >it =3D3D3D
>> >> >> >was
>> >> >> >> >>> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> >> >> >> >>> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two p=
>oin=3D
>> >ts,=3D3D
>> >> > bu=3D3D3D
>> >> >> >t
>> >> >> >> >>> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time W=
>arr=3D
>> >ior
>>
>> >> >> >> >>> SP 2 AS 0 .
>>
>n, =3D
>> >it
>> >> >> >> >>IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>>
> of=3D
>> > 50=3D3D
>> >> >0
>> >> >> >> > years ago.
>>
>> >> >> >> Well the Lord President in the End of Time could have been Rassi=
>lon=3D
>> > II=3D3D
>> >> >, o=3D3D3D
>> >> >> >r if he
>> >> >> >> has had six wives it could also be President Rassilon VIII... or=
> it=3D
>> > co=3D3D
>> >> >uld=3D3D3D
>> >> >> > just
>> >> >> >> be the original guy brought back because the Time Lords are very=
> po=3D
>> >wer=3D3D
>> >> >ful=3D3D3D
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> can do things like that. But whatever, his name was Rassilon.- H=
>ide=3D
>> > qu=3D3D
>> >> >ote=3D3D3D
>> >> >> >d text -
>>
>> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>hey
>> >> >> >bring back Rassilon? =3D3DA0Seems consistent enough behaviour to m=
>e
>>
>> >> >> >Regards
>>
>> >> >> >Ged
>>
>> >> >> REcall T5D. =3D3DA0Rassilon would be mad if resurrected.
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Member - Liberal International =3D3DA0This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici=
> doc.=3D
>> >..@nl=3D3D
>> >> >2k.ab.ca
>> >> >> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware Anti=
>Chr=3D
>> >ist=3D3D
>> >> > rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> >> >> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> >My dear boy, how can you Ressurect an Immortal?
>>
>> >> IS he Immortal?
>> >> --
>> >> Member - Liberal International =3DA0This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc.=
>..@nl=3D
>> >2k.ab.ca
>> >> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChr=
>ist=3D
>> > rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> >> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >time scoop in the Five Doctors?
>> >http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Ring_of_Rassilon
>> >I know it was a trap, but maybe rassilon himself was immortal. He
>> >didn't need the ring.
>>
>> >WG
>>
>> Just remember to lose is to win and he who wins loses.
>> --
>> Member - Liberal International =A0This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl=
>2k.ab.ca
>> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist=
> rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
>Rassilon was immortal. And it makes sense he would return to lead his
>people to glory in war, but ultimatley condemn them.
>
>Hmmm, maybe the Master was brought back by Rassilon. they had met.
>
>Also, that was one cool guantlet.
I still would not resurrect Rassilon due to wrath!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
The Doctor
Ross <rras...@trenchcoatsoft.com> wrote:
>On Jan 15, 10:27=A0am, WILL GILLIES <WILLGILL...@YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:
>> On 14 Jan, 21:23, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>ps.com>,
>> > WILL GILLIES =A0<WILLGILL...@YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:
>>
>> > >On 12 Jan, 22:49, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>oups.=3D
>> > >com>,
>> > >> WILLGILLIES=3DA0<WILLGILL...@YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:
>>
>> > >> >On 7 Jan, 19:56, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>legro=3D
>> > >ups=3D3D
>> > >> >.com>,
>>
>> > >> >> Hulahoop =3D3DA0<sweeney...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >> >On Jan 8, 12:51=3D3D3DA0am, "Stephen O'Connell" <no.s...@fk.u.co=
>m> wrot=3D
>> > >e:
>> > >> >> >> "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>
>> > >> >> >>news:hi3c3c$lpp$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>>
>googl=3D
>> > >egr=3D3D
>> > >> >oup=3D3D3D
>> > >> >> >s.com>,
>> > >> >> >> > AlanSailsbury =3D3D3DA0<alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> > >> >> >> >>On Jan 4, 7:40=3D3D3D3DA0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The D=
>octor) =3D
>> > >wrote=3D3D
>> > >> >:
>> > >> >> >> >>> In article <68d3101b-32a6-4f32-bf30-95c4d9fc9...@b2g2000yq=
>i.goo=3D
>> > >gle=3D3D
>> > >> >gro=3D3D3D
>> > >> >> >ups.=3D3D3D3D
>> > >> >> >> >>com>,
>ote:
>> > >> >> >> >>> >AlanSailsbury wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> >> >>> >> Why over-complicate it? The Doctor called him Rassilon =
>becau=3D
>> > >se =3D3D
>> > >> >it =3D3D3D
>> > >> >> >was
>> > >> >> >> >>> >> Rassilon. Simple.
>>
>> > >> >> >> >>> >"A straight line may be the shortest distance between two=
> poin=3D
>> > >ts,=3D3D
>> > >> > bu=3D3D3D
>> > >> >> >t
>> > >> >> >> >>> >it is by no means the most interesting." -- from The Time=
> Warr=3D
>> > >ior
>>
>> > >> >> >> >>> SP 2 AS 0 .
>>
>lon, =3D
>> > >it
>> > >> >> >> >>IS. You can't argue otherwise you dick.
>>
>th of=3D
>> > > 50=3D3D
>> > >> >0
>> > >> >> >> > years ago.
>>
>> > >> >> >> Well the Lord President in the End of Time could have been Ras=
>silon=3D
>> > > II=3D3D
>> > >> >, o=3D3D3D
>> > >> >> >r if he
>> > >> >> >> has had six wives it could also be President Rassilon VIII... =
>or it=3D
>> > > co=3D3D
>> > >> >uld=3D3D3D
>> > >> >> > just
>> > >> >> >> be the original guy brought back because the Time Lords are ve=
>ry po=3D
>> > >wer=3D3D
>> > >> >ful=3D3D3D
>> > >> >> > and
>> > >> >> >> can do things like that. But whatever, his name was Rassilon.-=
> Hide=3D
>> > > qu=3D3D
>> > >> >ote=3D3D3D
>> > >> >> >d text -
>>
>> > >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
> they
>> > >> >> >bring back Rassilon? =3D3DA0Seems consistent enough behaviour to=
> me
>>
>> > >> >> >Regards
>>
>> > >> >> >Ged
>>
>> > >> >> REcall T5D. =3D3DA0Rassilon would be mad if resurrected.
>> > >> >> --
>> > >> >> Member - Liberal International =3D3DA0This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca I=
>ci doc.=3D
>> > >..@nl=3D3D
>> > >> >2k.ab.ca
>> > >> >> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware An=
>tiChr=3D
>> > >ist=3D3D
>> > >> > rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> > >> >> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > >> >My dear boy, how can you Ressurect an Immortal?
>>
>> > >> IS he Immortal?
>> > >> --
>c...@nl=3D
>> > >2k.ab.ca
>> > >> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiC=
>hrist=3D
>> > > rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> > >> Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > >If Rassilon wasn't immortal, why did Borusa do all that stuff with the
>> > >time scoop in the Five Doctors?
>> > >http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Ring_of_Rassilon
>> > >I know it was a trap, but maybe rassilon himself was immortal. He
>> > >didn't need the ring.
>>
>> > >WG
>>
>> > Just remember to lose is to win and he who wins loses.
>> > --
>nl2k.ab.ca
>> > God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChri=
>st rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> > Born 29 Jan 1969 Redhill,Surrey,England UK- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> No that was a deliberate trap.
>>
>> Rassilon was immortal. And it makes sense he would return to lead his
>> people to glory in war, but ultimatley condemn them.
>>
>> Hmmm, maybe the Master was brought back by Rassilon. they had met.
>>
>> Also, that was one cool guantlet.
>
>Given how dismissive Rassilon was of the Master, it seems more likely
>that happened either before his return to power (THe Doctor mentions
>that the Master wasn't around for the later parts of the war) or while
>his attention was elsewhere.
>
>Even if Rassilon had originally been every bit as good and noble as
>the official histories claimed, we know that he did have a ruthless
>streak in him, and it's not hard to see how he might have crossed the
>line in situation as dire as the time war (Heck, the Doctor himself
>came close)
Hence why we need a good backgrounf to understand the Time Wars.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
pbo...@aol.com
> On Jan 7, 6:19 pm, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:32:23 -0800 (PST), AlanSailsbury
>
> > <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > >On Jan 5, 12:22 pm, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:49:51 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
>
> > >> <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >Ignis Fatuus wrote:
>
> > >> >> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:18:51 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
> > >> >> <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >> >solar penguin wrote:
>
> > >> >> >> john smith wrote:
>
> > >> >> >> > lead character?
>
> > >> >> >> No, he was _called_ Rassilon by the Doctor. That's not quite the same
> > >> >> >> thing.
>
> > >> >> >> > What more evidence do you need, FFS?
>
> > >> >> >> For a start, evidence that the Doctor was right and that the
> > >> >> >> was the same Rassilon and not another character with the same name.
>
> > >> >> >Thinking about it some more, I'd also need evidence that the Doctor's
> > >> >> >"Rassilon" remark really was addressed to Dalton. Rassilon could be,
> > >> >> >for example, the mysterious woman-in-white Time Lady who may or may
> > >> >> >not have been the Doctor's mother/wife/granddaughter/etc.
> > >> >> >;-)
>
> > >> >> Have you considered watching it? It's amazing what you can pick up
> > >> >> that way.
>
> > >> >> <Doctor fires gun - machine explodes>
> > >> >> DOCTOR - The link is broken. Back into the Time War Rassilon - back
> > >> >> into Hell.
> > >> >> <close up of Dalton looking cross>
>
> > >> >> Tra La
>
> > >> >So _if_ the Doctor is speaking literally and accurately, someone
> > >> >called Rassilon is one of the Time Lords going back to the Time War.
> > >> >on Gallifrey, even the original Rassilon in his tomb in the Death
> > >> >Zone.
>
> > >> >The close-up confirms that it was RTD's intent for Dalton to be
> > >> >more, until it's been definitively established by evidence from a
> > >> >story with no possible wriggle room for imaginative re-
> > >> >interpretations.
>
> > >> Frankly my dear... he could be called Fred for all I care. It was a
> > >> great scene in a terrific story; It's given me a 'moment' to gloat
> > >> over after 40 odd years; but if another writer wants them back they'll
> > >> be regenerated with a wave of a sonic screwdriver.
>
> > >> Just enjoy the show (but don't watch the trailer). Leaving aside all
> > >> the TL nonsense it's a brilliant piece with some terrific dialogue and
> > >> performances.
>
> > >I'm sure my opinion doesn't matter to you Iggy but having just read
> > >your comment I'm pleased that you enjoyed the episode. I had wrongly
> > >assumed you'd be watching it to spite yourself but it sounds like it
> > >was worthwhile for you, so good on you.
>
> > For what it's worth, I'd have given it unstinting praise if the Time
> > Lords Had been reinstated. Simm and Dalton were terrific OTT villains;
> > but for me it was Cribbins' show as much as Tennant's, and they
> > on the door - the first time DW's sent a shiver down my spine since I
> > felt the bitter irony raging right the way through Tennant's speech.
>
> > I feel entitled to a (probably fleeting) gloat after forty years; but
> > I'd prefer to have seen a more positive response to some of the best
> > writing that the series has produced.
>
> I saw the four knocks coming so that scene didn't send a chill down my
> spine but it was still very well done. I know The Doctor's tantrum has
> upset some people but I thought it was keeping in character with the
> way things had been developing. And regardless of what some think, The
> Doctor was being sarcastic when he said Wilf wasn't important etc.
How does that square with his next line, "But I could do so much
more!" - it wasn't just that he was calling Wilf unimportant, he was
doing so specifically to contrast that with how great he was.
Okay, Alan, you liked the scene - no surprise there. But you've been
caught out several times so far inventing spurious justifications for
aspects of this episode others have found fault with (the TARDIS
explosion was the Doctor resisting regeneration - no it wasn't,
Moffatt and/or RTD just wanted to do a big effects sequence; the
Doctor is matchmaking Jack with a man who's "destined to die" - no he
wasn't, since (a) this is set after Voyage of the Damned, (b) Frame
survived that episode, and (c) there's no reason to suspect this scene
implied anything beyond a pick-up at a bar; the Doctor ended up
regenerating in space because he wanted to avoid risking contact with
Rose - no again, firstly since he visited her in 2005 in order to do
exactly that anyway, and more to the point because he could just
rematerialise somewhere else on the same planet). You can stop now -
you're the one who likes to insist people just sit back and enjoy the
show, so why not simply accept the point that this was a scene others
found badly-done and that you enjoyed rather than trying to invent
reasons they should have enjoyed it?
Phil
The Doctor
pbo...@aol.com <pbo...@aol.com> wrote:
>On 8 Jan, 00:06, AlanSailsbury <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:32:23 -0800 (PST), AlanSailsbury
>>
>> > <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> > >> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:49:51 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
>>
>> > >> <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >> >Ignis Fatuus wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:18:51 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
>> > >> >> <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> >solar penguin wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> >> john smith wrote:
>>
>he programme's
>> > >> >> >> > lead character?
>>
>e the same
>> > >> >> >> thing.
>>
>> > >> >> >> > What more evidence do you need, FFS?
>>
>> > >> >> >> For a start, evidence that the Doctor was right and that the
>that it
>> > >> >> >> was the same Rassilon and not another character with the same =
>name.
>>
>> > >> >> >Thinking about it some more, I'd also need evidence that the Doc=
>tor's
>> > >> >> >"Rassilon" remark really was addressed to Dalton. =A0Rassilon co=
>uld be,
>> > >> >> >for example, the mysterious woman-in-white Time Lady who may or =
>may
>> > >> >> >not have been the Doctor's mother/wife/granddaughter/etc.
>> > >> >> >;-)
>>
>p
>> > >> >> that way.
>>
>> > >> >> <Doctor fires gun - machine explodes>
>ck
>> > >> >> into Hell.
>> > >> >> <close up of Dalton looking cross>
>>
>> > >> >> Tra La
>>
>> > >> >So _if_ the Doctor is speaking literally and accurately, someone
>.
>> > >> >That includes Dalton, as well as the mysterious Time Lady,and every=
>one
>> > >> >on Gallifrey, even the original Rassilon in his tomb in the Death
>> > >> >Zone.
>>
>> > >> >The close-up confirms that it was RTD's intent for Dalton to be
>ing
>> > >> >more, until it's been definitively established by evidence from a
>> > >> >story with no possible wriggle room for imaginative re-
>> > >> >interpretations.
>>
>> > >> Frankly my dear... he could be called Fred for all I care. It was a
>> > >> great scene in a terrific story; It's given me a 'moment' to gloat
>ll
>> > >> be regenerated with a wave of a sonic screwdriver.
>>
>> > >> Just enjoy the show (but don't watch the trailer). Leaving aside all
10/10 PB!
Ignis Fatuus
I think you've bypassed the irony of that completely. Apart from being
the standard justification for immortality that anybody might use, it
also encompasses the fat that if the Doctor Is 'great' (and the very
notion of the Doctor being 'great' grates on my nerves) it's Precisely
because he's in a position to recognise the importance of people like
Wilf, and help them in times of need.
That doesn't mean that a part of him doesn't resent the cost. A
sacrifice wouldn't be a sacrifice if there was no personal cost.
That's the difference between The Doctor's sacrifice, and Harkness'
decision to execute a child for the 'greater good'.
peachyashiepassion
I recognize that all of this is true.
I still hated the scene. It grated on my nerves.
Ignis Fatuus
That's because Americans have no sense of irony whatsoever; the
Puritan heritage, no doubt, seasoned with the Semitic penchant for
self-mockery which too frequently tends towards sentimentality.
It's very Shakespearian, and quite possibly inspired by Tennant's
sojourn in Hamlet - although I'd tend towards Lear with his King Canut
act; you might also consider the soliloquy in Gethsemane, or even
Sydney Carton. The words run counter to the spirit of the occasion and
cajole the 'audience' into a deeper perception of the event.
The Doctor may be 'immortal'; but he fears the loss of identity in a
way that's similar to our fear of death.
The Doctor
The Doctor
Ignis Fatuus
That's old hat. Today's Doctor won't be bound by the mythology of the
past.
The Doctor
Gzllifrey is still around and I doubt they gave the Doctor
infinite regeneration powers.
pbo...@aol.com
> On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:48:00 +0000 (UTC), doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>
>
>
>
>
> (The Doctor) wrote:
> >Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> >>On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 22:37:17 -0500, peachyashiepassion
> >><exquisitepe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Ignis Fatuus wrote:
Indeed, it's conspicuously never been mentioned in the current series
that there's a limit to regenerations, and rather implied that there
isn't. Was it ever more than a throwaway addition to make the Valeyard
seem special, or something? It was never suggested in early
regeneration stories, and Romana got through half a dozen
regenerations just for a cheap joke.
Phil
The Doctor
pbo...@aol.com <pbo...@aol.com> wrote:
>On 16 Jan, 13:18, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:48:00 +0000 (UTC), doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (The Doctor) wrote:
>> >In article <eud2l51ke1ltcj18n6r08jvhqhkv5ul...@4ax.com>,
>> >>On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 22:37:17 -0500, peachyashiepassion
>> >><exquisitepe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>Ignis Fatuus wrote:
>> >>>> On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:49:57 -0800 (PST), "pbow...@aol.com"
>> >>>> <pbow...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> On 8 Jan, 00:06, AlanSailsbury <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Jan 7, 6:19 pm, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:32:23 -0800 (PST), AlanSailsbury
>> >>>>>>> <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 5, 12:22 pm, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:49:51 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
>> >>>>>>>>> <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> Ignis Fatuus wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:18:51 -0800 (PST), solar penguin
>> >>>>>>>>>>> <solar.peng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> solar penguin wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> john smith wrote:
> the programme's
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lead character?
>uite the same
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What more evidence do you need, FFS?
>e
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> character's name really was Rassilon. =A0Followed by eviden=
>ce that it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> was the same Rassilon and not another character with the sa=
>me name.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it some more, I'd also need evidence that the=
> Doctor's
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Rassilon" remark really was addressed to Dalton. =A0Rassilo=
>n could be,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> for example, the mysterious woman-in-white Time Lady who may=
> or may
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> not have been the Doctor's mother/wife/granddaughter/etc.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ;-)
>ck up
>> >>>>>>>>>>> that way.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> <Doctor fires gun - machine explodes>
>- back
>> >>>>>>>>>>> into Hell.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> <close up of Dalton looking cross>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Tra La
>ne
>> >>>>>>>>>> called Rassilon is one of the Time Lords going back to the Tim=
>e War.
>> >>>>>>>>>> That includes Dalton, as well as the mysterious Time Lady,and =
>everyone
>> >>>>>>>>>> on Gallifrey, even the original Rassilon in his tomb in the De=
>ath
>> >>>>>>>>>> Zone.
>> >>>>>>>>>> The close-up confirms that it was RTD's intent for Dalton to b=
>e
>> >>>>>>>>>> Rassilon, I'm not denying that, but it's still just an intent,=
> nothing
>> >>>>>>>>>> more, until it's been definitively established by evidence fro=
>m a
>> >>>>>>>>>> story with no possible wriggle room for imaginative re-
>> >>>>>>>>>> interpretations.
>as a
>> >>>>>>>>> great scene in a terrific story; It's given me a 'moment' to gl=
>oat
>> >>>>>>>>> over after 40 odd years; but if another writer wants them back =
>they'll
>> >>>>>>>>> be regenerated with a wave of a sonic screwdriver.
>e all
>> >>>>>>>>> the TL nonsense it's a brilliant piece with some terrific dialo=
>gue and
>> >>>>>>>>> performances.
>> >>>>>>>> I'm sure my opinion doesn't matter to you Iggy but having just r=
>ead
>> >>>>>>>> your comment I'm pleased that you enjoyed the episode. I had wro=
>ngly
>> >>>>>>>> assumed you'd be watching it to spite yourself but it sounds lik=
>e it
>> >>>>>>>> was worthwhile for you, so good on you.
>ime
>> >>>>>>> Lords Had been reinstated. Simm and Dalton were terrific OTT vill=
>ains;
>> >>>>>>> but for me it was Cribbins' show as much as Tennant's, and they
>ocked
>> >>>>>>> on the door - the first time DW's sent a shiver down my spine sin=
>ce I
>> >>>>>>> was a kid. Perhaps I should have seen it coming but I didn't; but=
> I
>> >>>>>>> felt the bitter irony raging right the way through Tennant's spee=
>ch.
>> >>>>>>> I feel entitled to a (probably fleeting) gloat after forty years;=
> but
>> >>>>>>> I'd prefer to have seen a more positive response to some of the b=
>est
>> >>>>>>> writing that the series has produced.
>n my
>> >>>>>> spine but it was still very well done. I know The Doctor's tantrum=
> has
>> >>>>>> upset some people but I thought it was keeping in character with t=
>he
>> >>>>>> way things had been developing. And regardless of what some think,=
> The
>> >>>>>> Doctor was being sarcastic when he said Wilf wasn't important etc.
>> >>>>> How does that square with his next line, "But I could do so much
>s
>> >>>>> doing so specifically to contrast that with how great he was.
>>
>ng
>> >>>> the standard justification for immortality that anybody might use, i=
>t
>> >>>> also encompasses the fat that if the Doctor Is 'great' (and the very
>ly
>> >>>> because he's in a position to recognise the importance of people lik=
>e
>> >>>> Wilf, and help them in times of need.
>>
>> >>>> That doesn't mean that a part of him doesn't resent the cost. A
>> >>>> sacrifice wouldn't be a sacrifice if there was no personal cost.
>>
>>
>> >>> =A0 I still hated the scene. =A0It grated on my nerves.
>>
>> >>That's because Americans have no sense of irony whatsoever; the
>> >>Puritan heritage, no doubt, seasoned with the Semitic penchant for
>> >>self-mockery which too frequently tends towards sentimentality.
>>
>> >>It's very Shakespearian, and quite possibly inspired by Tennant's
>> >>sojourn in Hamlet - although I'd tend towards Lear with his King Canut
>> >>act; you might also consider the soliloquy in Gethsemane, or even
>> >>Sydney Carton. The words run counter to the spirit of the occasion and
>> >>cajole the 'audience' into a deeper perception of the event.
>>
>> >>The Doctor may be 'immortal'; but he fears the loss of identity in a
>> >>way that's similar to our fear of death.
>>
>> >2 more regens to go for the Doctor.
>>
>> That's old hat. Today's Doctor won't be bound by the mythology of the
>> past.
>
>Indeed, it's conspicuously never been mentioned in the current series
>that there's a limit to regenerations, and rather implied that there
>isn't. Was it ever more than a throwaway addition to make the Valeyard
>seem special, or something? It was never suggested in early
>regeneration stories, and Romana got through half a dozen
>regenerations just for a cheap joke.
>
>Phil
Romana was going from 1 to 2.
The Face of Po
> On 16 Jan, 13:18, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:48:00 +0000 (UTC), doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>>
>> (The Doctor) wrote:
>> >2 more regens to go for the Doctor.
>>
>> That's old hat. Today's Doctor won't be bound by the mythology of the
>> past.
>
> Indeed, it's conspicuously never been mentioned in the current series
> that there's a limit to regenerations, and rather implied that there
> isn't. Was it ever more than a throwaway addition to make the Valeyard
> seem special, or something? It was never suggested in early
> regeneration stories, and Romana got through half a dozen
> regenerations just for a cheap joke.
It's mostly used in the context of the Master having used up all of his
regenerations - in "Deadly Assassin", "Five Doctors" (the number itself
isn't given there, but we're reminded that there's a limit) and the TVM.
--
Happiness will prevail
Monsieur Tabernac
In Mawdryn Undead the Doctor specifically states that he can only
regenerate 12 times. I'm not sure if that's the very first mention of
the number of regenerations, though.