On 30/10/2016 09:21, The Last Doctor wrote:
> On 24/10/2016 00:19, Agamemnon wrote:
>> Slight improvement over the trash which was episode 1 but not much.
>
> Agreed.
>
>>
>> The writers don't have have a clue how to construct a plot or portray
>> character relationships.
>
> Modern _Who_ and now _Class_ really isn't plot driven. The story is
And the reason for that is? The writers don't have a clue how to do it.
How does someone get a job at the BBC as a writer? It's obviously not
based on their ability to writer. Maybe they slept with one of the gay
high ups?
> there to highlight the interrelationships of the characters as much as
They don't have a clue how to do interrelationships of characters.
> anything else. Would I prefer more strongly plotted stories? Yes. Am I
> going to get them? Well, I know the answer to this by now, so I may as
> well stop being disappointed by it and live with what we are going to get.
>
> As to characters - what you SHOULD be saying is that they're not showing
> the kind of ultra traditional relationships YOU like. The character work
> isn't bad at all, and they need time for that anyway. The characters are
> slowly getting filled out (albeit largely in line with well-worn
> traits). Your later words (and those you wrote about episode 1) show
> that you are seriously misinterpreting a lot of the character
> interactions anyway due to your weird obsessions and hangups with
> underage sexuality and homosexuality.
All of the characters they have created are complete and utter tossers
that can't get on with each other, they all think they're the victim and
aren't very nice to anyone. Do you seriously think that that is either
entertaining, enjoyable or uplifting? That the way to do
characterization. Any idiot can write people arguing with each other.
It's the easiest thing to do. It's not so easy creating characters
people will like.
These idiots don't know how to do characterization. It's not writing
people speaking the way they speak in real live. It's meaningfully
getting across their innermost feelings, ideas, aspirations, and
personality in the fewest words possible without being vulgar or
offensive. Being vulgar is for comedy and that's what differentiates
Aristophanes from Euripides, Sophocles and Aeschylus. It's about making
the characters likable, making them cohesive and most importantly
writing every single word they say so that it both tells you everything
mentioned above and at the same time it advances the plot. Patrick Ness
doesn't have a clue how to do that and neither do most of the writers
writing modern Doctor Who.
As for sexuality. Class is being written by a gay and he doesn't have
any idea how to portray meaningful heterosexual relationship. RTD
couldn't do it either. Instead these people portray sexual perversions
and extremes and treat women (in the case of lesbian writers men) in a
shameful and demeaning manner, as nothing more than sex objects. They
don't understand relationships. If I'm reading ERB, or E E Smith, I can
find things in what they have written that remind me of relationships I
have had. There is nothing of that in what RTD or Patrick Ness have ever
written. They don't understand how women act in a relationships with
man. They just turn them into sluts and whores and trollops. After you
gave me your list of gay writers it finally clicked. Homer, Apollonius,
Quintus, Euripides were all heterosexual. They have to be because the
relationships they've written define love. Gay writers don't have a clue
what love means. They've never experienced it in their entries lives.
All that interests them is pleasure. Now it all makes sense.
>
>>
>> If they want to do Buffy, Angel or Smallville then at least watch them
>> first and learn the basics. Better still read some Harry Potter.
>
> They've very clearly watched at least _Buffy_ from end to end, worn out
> their old VHS tapes and had to buy it again on Blu-Ray.
If they have then they've not learned anything from it. They've clearly
not read Harry Potter because they can't do friendship.
>
>>
>> The characters are all extremely dislikable with no redeeming qualities
>> whatsoever.
>
> Those aren't the characters in _Class_. They're the ones in your head.
>
No, they are the characters in Class. Let's compare them with those in
Harry Potter and the Curse Child which is the way to do the genre
properly. The moment you start reading you instantly like both Albus and
Scorpius. Neither of them are immature, self centered, arrogant tossers
that hate everyone and everything around them like the characters in class.
What Albus and Scorpius say, everything they say advances the plot, but
not only that, it also tells you about them and their relationships with
their parents. Class fails dismally to do that.
None of the characters in Class are likable. Selfish evil bitch is a
melodramatic pantomime villain. Naive girl, as of episode 3 is being
turned into a slut whose so desperate she'll kiss or sleep with anyone
after only an hour together. 14 year old trollop is a trollop who spends
all her time talking to older boys. Arrogant lothario is an arrogant
Lothario that uses asking for help with his homework to chat up girls.
Alien prince is an totally stupid idiot devoid of any qualities of
leadership. And eastern european gay is just there to perform gay sex.
None of these people display any satellites of courage or caring for
others. They're all in it for themselves and themselves alone.
Collectively they are an incoherent and weak ramble.
In contrast but Albus and Scorpius show leadership qualities, they do
things not for themselves but for the sake of others. Theirs is a true
friendship and no one can tear them apart. They make mistakes at times.
They are not infallible. Albus has a hangup about having to live up to
the reputation of his father. Scorpius has to live live his father's
down. Both are capable of forming meaningful and caring relationships.
Harry and Ron are true caring men who respect women and love and care
for their wives. Ginny and Hermione are respectable caring women who
love only their husbands and shy away from other men. They can all act
and do the right thing both as individuals and collectively.
Collectively they form a strong cohesive bond that makes them stronger
as a whole.
Why not write something like that? It's because Patrick Ness can't.
>> There's one selfish bitch who first attacks, then at their next meeting
>> pounces on an Ofsted Inspector and tries to force herself into a lip
>> lock with him. FFS... If you want to do that then at least try to
>> justify it in the same manner as today's episode of Poldark but in
>> reverse.
>
> She's an alien, he's a robot and the kiss follows a strage written
> relvelation that he wants "YOU" (i.e. her). It's not like Ross forcing
> both himself and Elizabeth to face the truth about their passion, in any
> way.
She's an alien, he's a robot? And the kiss follows a strange written
revelation that he wants "YOU"? Can anyone seriously believe that she
really that stupid and that naive? THIS IS NOT MORK AND BLOODY MINDY!
>
>> There's also a selfish immature 14 yearold who's trying to make
>> passes at guys at least 2 years older than her and she's taller than
>> everyone else in the Class including the teacher.
>
> She doesn't make passes at anyone in either episode. That's all in your
> head. And height is NOT a character trait. It's height.
Height is a character trait when one of the characters is supposed to be
14 years old and that needs to be conveyed to every new viewer every
time. She spends all of her time talking to boys on the internet despite
what her mother says to her. In literary shorthand that depicts a trollop.
>
>> On top of that there's
>> this girl who's been paired of with the alien prince,
>
> No she hasn't.
Yes she has. Naive girl is supposed to be the lead female role and alien
prince the lead male. It's a mismatch made in hell.
>
>> despite the fact
>> that he's gay and nothing can ever be expected to happen between them.
>
> He isn't necessarily gay. He sn't even necessarily male. You keep
> imposing human limitations on aliens.
Episode 3 makes it undeniably clear that his is completely and rampantly
gay. His entire planet is gay. One half is like Lyranne II dominated
exclusively by vicious women and the other is Kalonia. On top of that
the inhabitants are born from eggs in nests and try to kill each other
off as soon as the hatch. They're like the Green Martians of Barsoom.
>
>> And finally there's the guy who thinks he can play football and starts
>> bashing up or pushing around the gay prince who tries to help him but
>> take advice about the loss of his girlfriend from the 14 year old who
>> fancies him.
>
> That is just a complete misread of both Ram and Tanya. You should try
> watching without preconceptions.
No it isn't. In episode 3 it's established that he's a Lothario and he's
after 14 year old trollop and when she doesn't respond to his calls he
goes after naive girl.
>
>>
>> So with all that given forget about any of them getting into any
>> meaningful relationships. What other reason is there left for anyone to
>> want to watch it?
>
> Since everything you said was wrong, possibly lots. But not for you,
> obvously. I suggest you give it up and go and re-read the Barsoom novels.
I don't need to re-read the Barsoom series. The relationships in that
are all realistic ones and not some gays fantasy of what heterosexuals
are really like. I can identify with Barsoom but not with Class.
I suggest you read The Moon Maid/Moon Men/Red Hawk since that is the
work which created the so-called "YA" genre in the first place and it
can be seen that Patrick Ness has got everything wrong.
>
>>
>> The writing is absolutely puerile. First episode; the monster of the
>> weak creates a blood bath. Everyone forgets. Second episode; the monster
>> of the weak creates another blood bath, kills the headmaster, gets away
>> with all of it, clears off after grabbing the coach--whatever happened
>> to PE teachers? Everyone forgets.
>
> Sadly "everyone forgets" is a common trope of both _Doctor Who_ and
> _Buffy_. There must be a lot more happening at Coal Hill and they do
> sort of know it ... just look at that huge board of the dead and the
> lost. It's bigger than most towns' war memorials.
The school should have been closed down. No parent would send their
child to such a place if they looked at its record.