The Name of the Doctor and The Timeless Child

[tsbr...@gmail.com]

When the Great Intelligence and then Clara dived into the Doctor's timeline in his tomb (an expanded TARDIS), should the GI and Clara have learned about the Doctor's pre-Hartnell incarnations and been able to interfere with them?

[The Doctor]

In article <6fcf8685-3218-463c...@googlegroups.com>,

Eactly a contradiction.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b
Alberta on 18 Oct vote no to the referenda and stop the UCP/CPC and NDP municipally! Beware https://mindspring.com

[The Last Doctor]

On 05/10/2021 20:36, tsbr...@gmail.com wrote:
> When the Great Intelligence and then Clara dived into the Doctor's timeline in his tomb (an expanded TARDIS), should the GI and Clara have learned about the Doctor's pre-Hartnell incarnations and been able to interfere with them?
>

If they were using the Doctor's conscious memory as a guide, no. They
could only traverse past regenerations of which he was aware. Capaldi
and Whittaker weren't visited either.

Alternatively - they did, and we just weren't shown any such scenes?
Perhaps Clara is more fractured than we knew at the time. We only hear
from 1,2,3,4,6,9,10 and 11 - not 5,7,8 or War. And the Doctor says he is
observing "Even the ones that I, er, even the ones that I haven't lived
yet." See that hesitation? He's seeing future incarnations, and he knows
that's impossible because he is the last (as acknowledged 2 episodes
later). And/or he's seeing past incarnations, and half-remembers them
just in that moment? Either or both ways, what he's seeing MUST indicate
life beyond 12 regenerations.

--
There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
things. Things which act against everything we believe in.

They must be /fought/.

[The Last Doctor]

On 06/10/2021 00:38, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <6fcf8685-3218-463c...@googlegroups.com>,
> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> When the Great Intelligence and then Clara dived into the Doctor's
>> timeline in his tomb (an expanded TARDIS), should the GI and Clara have
>> learned about the Doctor's pre-Hartnell incarnations and been able to
>> interfere with them?
>
> Eactly a contradiction.
>

Eactly, eh? Haven't you figured out how to install a spel chacker [sic]
in trn YET?

See my other response which shows, once again, that you're wrong.

[The Doctor]

In article <sjjio7$jv6$1...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>On 05/10/2021 20:36, tsbr...@gmail.com wrote:
>> When the Great Intelligence and then Clara dived into the Doctor's
>timeline in his tomb (an expanded TARDIS), should the GI and Clara have
>learned about the Doctor's pre-Hartnell incarnations and been able to
>interfere with them?
>>
>
>If they were using the Doctor's conscious memory as a guide, no. They
>could only traverse past regenerations of which he was aware. Capaldi
>and Whittaker weren't visited either.
>
>Alternatively - they did, and we just weren't shown any such scenes?
>Perhaps Clara is more fractured than we knew at the time. We only hear
>from 1,2,3,4,6,9,10 and 11 - not 5,7,8 or War. And the Doctor says he is
>observing "Even the ones that I, er, even the ones that I haven't lived
>yet." See that hesitation? He's seeing future incarnations, and he knows
>that's impossible because he is the last (as acknowledged 2 episodes
>later). And/or he's seeing past incarnations, and half-remembers them
>just in that moment? Either or both ways, what he's seeing MUST indicate
>life beyond 12 regenerations.
>

That logic holds no water.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sjjivh$l39$1...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

>On 06/10/2021 00:38, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <6fcf8685-3218-463c...@googlegroups.com>,
>> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> When the Great Intelligence and then Clara dived into the Doctor's
>>> timeline in his tomb (an expanded TARDIS), should the GI and Clara have
>>> learned about the Doctor's pre-Hartnell incarnations and been able to
>>> interfere with them?
>>
>> Eactly a contradiction.
>>
>Eactly, eh? Haven't you figured out how to install a spel chacker [sic]
>in trn YET?
>
>See my other response which shows, once again, that you're wrong.
>

Bogus logic.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Last Doctor]

The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <sjjio7$jv6$1...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> On 05/10/2021 20:36, tsbr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> When the Great Intelligence and then Clara dived into the Doctor's
>> timeline in his tomb (an expanded TARDIS), should the GI and Clara have
>> learned about the Doctor's pre-Hartnell incarnations and been able to
>> interfere with them?
>>>
>>
>> If they were using the Doctor's conscious memory as a guide, no. They
>> could only traverse past regenerations of which he was aware. Capaldi
>> and Whittaker weren't visited either.
>>
>> Alternatively - they did, and we just weren't shown any such scenes?
>> Perhaps Clara is more fractured than we knew at the time. We only hear
>> from 1,2,3,4,6,9,10 and 11 - not 5,7,8 or War. And the Doctor says he is
>> observing "Even the ones that I, er, even the ones that I haven't lived
>> yet." See that hesitation? He's seeing future incarnations, and he knows
>> that's impossible because he is the last (as acknowledged 2 episodes
>> later). And/or he's seeing past incarnations, and half-remembers them
>> just in that moment? Either or both ways, what he's seeing MUST indicate
>> life beyond 12 regenerations.
>>
>
> That logic holds no water.

The (Eleventh) Doctor remarks that he’s looking at all his incarnations:
“"Even the ones that I, er, even the ones that I haven't lived yet."

He must be surprised to see any incarnations he doesn’t know of, as he
thinks he is the thirteenth and final incarnation of the Doctor.

After overcoming his surprise he assumes that everything he sees is a
future incarnation. But it might not be - some of them might be from his
hidden secret pasts.

Either way, he’s actually been given a clear view that he as more than 13
lives. Which - as is so often the case when a Doctor learns something
before he should - he promptly forgets again.

Exactly where is the flaw in the logic, you buffoon?

Over and over again you deny logic and reason when they don’t lead you to
the revelation you desired. This is typical of a closed minded religious,
anti-scientific mind. But then you lie by claiming that the sound logic is
illogical, when what you really mean is that you don’t like the places
logic takes you to.

[The Last Doctor]

The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <sjjivh$l39$1...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> On 06/10/2021 00:38, The Doctor wrote:
>>> In article <6fcf8685-3218-463c...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> When the Great Intelligence and then Clara dived into the Doctor's
>>>> timeline in his tomb (an expanded TARDIS), should the GI and Clara have
>>>> learned about the Doctor's pre-Hartnell incarnations and been able to
>>>> interfere with them?
>>>
>>> Eactly a contradiction.
>>>
>> Eactly, eh? Haven't you figured out how to install a spel chacker [sic]
>> in trn YET?
>>
>> See my other response which shows, once again, that you're wrong.
>>
>
> Bogus logic.

There’s no such thing - there is logic, there is deception, and there is
idiocy. I use logic, Aggie uses duplicity and insanity, and you use idiocy.

[The Doctor]

In article <sjkj7j$drj$1...@dont-email.me>,

As stated in Time of the Doctor.

>
>After overcoming his surprise he assumes that everything he sees is a
>future incarnation. But it might not be - some of them might be from his
>hidden secret pasts.
>
>Either way, he’s actually been given a clear view that he as more than 13
>lives. Which - as is so often the case when a Doctor learns something
>before he should - he promptly forgets again.
>
>Exactly where is the flaw in the logic, you buffoon?
>
>Over and over again you deny logic and reason when they don’t lead you to
>the revelation you desired. This is typical of a closed minded religious,
>anti-scientific mind. But then you lie by claiming that the sound logic is
>illogical, when what you really mean is that you don’t like the places
>logic takes you to.
>

Said the illogical MM.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sjkjaq$el6$1...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <sjjivh$l39$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> On 06/10/2021 00:38, The Doctor wrote:
>>>> In article <6fcf8685-3218-463c...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> When the Great Intelligence and then Clara dived into the Doctor's
>>>>> timeline in his tomb (an expanded TARDIS), should the GI and Clara have
>>>>> learned about the Doctor's pre-Hartnell incarnations and been able to
>>>>> interfere with them?
>>>>
>>>> Eactly a contradiction.
>>>>
>>> Eactly, eh? Haven't you figured out how to install a spel chacker [sic]
>>> in trn YET?
>>>
>>> See my other response which shows, once again, that you're wrong.
>>>
>>
>> Bogus logic.
>
>There’s no such thing - there is logic, there is deception, and there is
>idiocy. I use logic, Aggie uses duplicity and insanity, and you use idiocy.
>

And MM uses deceit.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Last Doctor]

So illogical that you can't identify or point to a flaw in the actual
logic. Riiiiigght. Someone recently said of you "But then you lie by

claiming that the sound logic is illogical, when what you really mean is

that you don’t like the places logic takes you to." Seems that you are
determined to prove them right!

[The Last Doctor]

On 06/10/2021 23:35, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <sjkjaq$el6$1...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <sjjivh$l39$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2021 00:38, The Doctor wrote:
>>>>> In article <6fcf8685-3218-463c...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> When the Great Intelligence and then Clara dived into the Doctor's
>>>>>> timeline in his tomb (an expanded TARDIS), should the GI and Clara have
>>>>>> learned about the Doctor's pre-Hartnell incarnations and been able to
>>>>>> interfere with them?
>>>>>
>>>>> Eactly a contradiction.
>>>>>
>>>> Eactly, eh? Haven't you figured out how to install a spel chacker [sic]
>>>> in trn YET?
>>>>
>>>> See my other response which shows, once again, that you're wrong.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bogus logic.
>>
>> There’s no such thing - there is logic, there is deception, and there is
>> idiocy. I use logic, Aggie uses duplicity and insanity, and you use idiocy.
>>
>
> And MM uses deceit.

"But then you lie". I do not deceive. In twenty years you have NEVER
caught me in a lie, though you repeatedly lie about this.

I have occasionally been in error, and when this is the case you
invariably find that I acknowledge this, and when necessary apologise.

Go on - lie again. Or deflect. Anything other than following logic and
debating a reasoned point of view is fine by you.

[The Doctor]

In article <sjm44b$uoh$1...@dont-email.me>,

Wrong! You are caught in your own faulty logic.

>
>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sjm4ca$bt$1...@dont-email.me>,

Well you defend Chibnall the greatest DW revisionist.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Last Doctor]

On 07/10/2021 13:55, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <sjm44b$uoh$1...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> On 06/10/2021 23:34, The Doctor wrote:
>>> In article <sjkj7j$drj$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

[SNIP to leave only the reiteration of the logical thinking.]

>>>> The (Eleventh) Doctor remarks that he’s looking at all his incarnations:
>>>> “"Even the ones that I, er, even the ones that I haven't lived yet."
>>>>
>>>> He must be surprised to see any incarnations he doesn’t know of, as he
>>>> thinks he is the thirteenth and final incarnation of the Doctor.
>>>>

>>>> After overcoming his surprise he assumes that everything he sees is a
>>>> future incarnation. But it might not be - some of them might be from his
>>>> hidden secret pasts.
>>>>
>>>> Either way, he’s actually been given a clear view that he as more than 13
>>>> lives. Which - as is so often the case when a Doctor learns something
>>>> before he should - he promptly forgets again.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly where is the flaw in the logic, you buffoon?
>>>>
>>>> Over and over again you deny logic and reason when they don’t lead you to
>>>> the revelation you desired. This is typical of a closed minded religious,
>>>> anti-scientific mind. But then you lie by claiming that the sound logic is
>>>> illogical, when what you really mean is that you don’t like the places
>>>> logic takes you to.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Said the illogical MM.
>>
>> So illogical that you can't identify or point to a flaw in the actual
>> logic. Riiiiigght. Someone recently said of you "But then you lie by
>> claiming that the sound logic is illogical, when what you really mean is
>> that you don’t like the places logic takes you to." Seems that you are
>> determined to prove them right!
>>
>
> Wrong! You are caught in your own faulty logic.

Another baseless assertion, so you lose again. Where am I caught? What
by? You don't know. You're just lying, and hoping no-one notices.


If you had the intelligence to read what I wrote, you'll note that my
point was that you haven't (because you can't) identify or point to a

flaw in the actual logic.

Do that and we'll talk. Fail, and lie again, and you just lose. As usual.

[The Last Doctor]

That, Dave, is what we call a deflection. You were caught out lying
about me, and your response, instead of a much-needed apology, is a
pointless non-sequitur.

I don't lie, and when I defend [some parts of] Chibnall's work it is in
a logical manner, not through any irrational love of it - as opposed to
your emotional, ilogical, and irrational hatred.

Oh yes - and what he is doing is adding material. He's not changing
anything, only our understanding of it. YOU are the wannabe revisionist,
with your cries of "bogus" and "the Doctor is not himself", and desire
to deny, cancel and erase the most recent parts of the canon.

[tsbr...@gmail.com]

895 On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 12:20:41 AM UTC-7, The Last Doctor wrote:
> On 05/10/2021 20:36, tsbr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > When the Great Intelligence and then Clara dived into the Doctor's timeline in his tomb (an expanded TARDIS), should the GI and Clara have learned about the Doctor's pre-Hartnell incarnations and been able to interfere with them?
> >
> If they were using the Doctor's conscious memory as a guide, no. They
> could only traverse past regenerations of which he was aware. Capaldi
> and Whittaker weren't visited either.
>
> Alternatively - they did, and we just weren't shown any such scenes?
> Perhaps Clara is more fractured than we knew at the time. We only hear
> from 1,2,3,4,6,9,10 and 11 - not 5,7,8 or War. And the Doctor says he is
> observing "Even the ones that I, er, even the ones that I haven't lived
> yet." See that hesitation? He's seeing future incarnations, and he knows
> that's impossible because he is the last (as acknowledged 2 episodes
> later). And/or he's seeing past incarnations, and half-remembers them
> just in that moment? Either or both ways, what he's seeing MUST indicate
> life beyond 12 regenerations.

WHY didn't the creators show us the scenes of Clara interacting with pre-Hartnell Doctors?

[The Doctor]

In article <sjn75f$s6f$1...@dont-email.me>,

You base you logic on the Timeless Child is a continuation of DW.

Bogus!

The Timeless Child contradicts Doctor Who!

>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sjn7k3$va2$1...@dont-email.me>,

The Timeless Child contradictis Doctor Who!

>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <56d6d4e1-b7dc-4a7e...@googlegroups.com>,

Exactly!!!

[The Last Doctor]

Um, because it is. Using established facts as a starting point for
logical inference is a sensible position to take.

>
> Bogus!

Pointless, and false, assertion.

>
> The Timeless Child contradicts Doctor Who!

No, it doesn't. This has been proven to you dozens of times over. Your
dinosaur hindbrain just refuses to catch up.

[The Last Doctor]

On 07/10/2021 23:57, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <sjn7k3$va2$1...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> On 07/10/2021 13:56, The Doctor wrote:
>>> In article <sjm4ca$bt$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

>>>>
>>>> I do not deceive. In twenty years you have NEVER
>>>> caught me in a lie, though you repeatedly lie about this.
>>>>
>>>> I have occasionally been in error, and when this is the case you
>>>> invariably find that I acknowledge this, and when necessary apologise.
>>>>
>>>> Go on - lie again. Or deflect. Anything other than following logic and
>>>> debating a reasoned point of view is fine by you.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well you defend Chibnall the greatest DW revisionist.
>>
>> That, Dave, is what we call a deflection. You were caught out lying
>> about me, and your response, instead of a much-needed apology, is a
>> pointless non-sequitur.
>>
>> I don't lie, and when I defend [some parts of] Chibnall's work it is in
>> a logical manner, not through any irrational love of it - as opposed to
>> your emotional, ilogical, and irrational hatred.
>>
>> Oh yes - and what he is doing is adding material. He's not changing
>> anything, only our understanding of it. YOU are the wannabe revisionist,
>> with your cries of "bogus" and "the Doctor is not himself", and desire
>> to deny, cancel and erase the most recent parts of the canon.
>>
>
> The Timeless Child contradictis Doctor Who!

No it doesn't: must suck to be you and eternally doomed to repeat lies
and errors.

[The Last Doctor]

On 08/10/2021 00:21, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <56d6d4e1-b7dc-4a7e...@googlegroups.com>,
> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 895 On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 12:20:41 AM UTC-7, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>> On 05/10/2021 20:36, tsbr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> When the Great Intelligence and then Clara dived into the Doctor's
>> timeline in his tomb (an expanded TARDIS), should the GI and Clara have
>> learned about the Doctor's pre-Hartnell incarnations and been able to
>> interfere with them?
>>>>
>>> If they were using the Doctor's conscious memory as a guide, no. They
>>> could only traverse past regenerations of which he was aware. Capaldi
>>> and Whittaker weren't visited either.
>>>
>>> Alternatively - they did, and we just weren't shown any such scenes?
>>> Perhaps Clara is more fractured than we knew at the time. We only hear
>>> from 1,2,3,4,6,9,10 and 11 - not 5,7,8 or War. And the Doctor says he is
>>> observing "Even the ones that I, er, even the ones that I haven't lived
>>> yet." See that hesitation? He's seeing future incarnations, and he knows
>>> that's impossible because he is the last (as acknowledged 2 episodes
>>> later). And/or he's seeing past incarnations, and half-remembers them
>>> just in that moment? Either or both ways, what he's seeing MUST indicate
>>> life beyond 12 regenerations.
>>
>> WHY didn't the creators show us the scenes of Clara interacting with
>> pre-Hartnell Doctors?
>
> Exactly!!!
>

Pay attention, Dave, I've explained that in-Universe.

Out of Universe, the reason is self evident and you shouldn't fall
victim to Tim's obsession with wanting things that don't exist yet to be
included in the past. Asking that question is equivalent to asking why
the fall of the Two Towers wasn't included in history lessons in the 1980s.

[The Doctor]

In article <sjoqea$tab$1...@dont-email.me>,

No. Not logical.

>>
>> Bogus!
>
>Pointless, and false, assertion.
>
>>
>> The Timeless Child contradicts Doctor Who!
>
>No, it doesn't. This has been proven to you dozens of times over. Your
>dinosaur hindbrain just refuses to catch up.
>

And you can never make the standard of a Bench Judge.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sjoqhv$tab$2...@dont-email.me>,

Throw out the Church of Chibnall choir book MM!

>
>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sjosco$8s3$1...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

Your evidence holds no water.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[Daniel65]

The Doctor wrote on 8/10/21 9:57 am:

> In article <sjn7k3$va2$1...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> On 07/10/2021 13:56, The Doctor wrote:
>>> In article <sjm4ca$bt$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2021 23:35, The Doctor wrote:
>>>>> In article <sjkjaq$el6$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

<Snip>

>>>>>> There’s no such thing - there is logic, there is deception, and there is

>>>>>> idiocy. I use logic, Aggie uses duplicity and insanity, and you use idiocy.
>>>>>
>>>>> And MM uses deceit.
>>>>
>>>> "But then you lie". I do not deceive. In twenty years you have NEVER
>>>> caught me in a lie, though you repeatedly lie about this.
>>>>
>>>> I have occasionally been in error, and when this is the case you
>>>> invariably find that I acknowledge this, and when necessary apologise.
>>>>
>>>> Go on - lie again. Or deflect. Anything other than following logic and
>>>> debating a reasoned point of view is fine by you.
>>>
>>> Well you defend Chibnall the greatest DW revisionist.
>>
>> That, Dave, is what we call a deflection. You were caught out lying
>> about me, and your response, instead of a much-needed apology, is a
>> pointless non-sequitur.
>>
>> I don't lie, and when I defend [some parts of] Chibnall's work it is in
>> a logical manner, not through any irrational love of it - as opposed to
>> your emotional, ilogical, and irrational hatred.
>>
>> Oh yes - and what he is doing is adding material. He's not changing
>> anything, only our understanding of it. YOU are the wannabe revisionist,
>> with your cries of "bogus" and "the Doctor is not himself", and desire
>> to deny, cancel and erase the most recent parts of the canon.
>
> The Timeless Child contradictis Doctor Who!

And all of us here are, I'm sure, still waiting for YOU, idiot, to post
your evidence of any contradictions, idiot!!
--
Daniel

[The Doctor]

In article <sk3usq$i4d$1...@dont-email.me>,

How about the Rassilon Scene at T5D

or

Omega in T3D and Arc of Infinity?

[The Last Doctor]

The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <sk3usq$i4d$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Daniel65 <dani...@eternal-september.org> wrote:
>> The Doctor wrote on 8/10/21 9:57 am:

>>> The Timeless Child contradictis Doctor Who!
>>
>> And all of us here are, I'm sure, still waiting for YOU, idiot, to post
>> your evidence of any contradictions, idiot!!
>

> How about the Rassilon Scene at T5D
>
> or
>
> Omega in T3D and Arc of Infinity?

Those are scenes and characters, Dave. Not contradictions.

What are the imagined contradictions? Specifically, what did Rassilon and
Omega say on screen about the origin of the power of regeneration in
Gallifreyans?

Because that’s all the Timeless Child narrative explains. Not the Power of
Time Lords, or why they are so cool, or even why too many regenerations are
bad for you. The origin.

It doesn’t even say at which point the Child took up
the name “the Doctor”: only that the Jo Martin incarnation used the name,
and she was most likely the last regeneration prior to Hartnell (because
she had rebelled against the Division so is probably the one recaptured and
memory wiped). Which could be hundreds of thousands of years after the time
of Omega and Rassilon.

So again: Specifically, what did Rassilon and Omega say on screen about the
origin of the power of regeneration in Gallifreyans?

Come on Dave. No supporting quote = no contradiction. Put up or shut up.

[tsbr...@gmail.com]

What about them?

[tsbr...@gmail.com]

So the pre-Hartnell Doctors didn't EXIST until last year, then the timeline magically changed to create said Doctors? No wonder Yads is hacked!

[The Last Doctor]

Seriously, Tim. Of course they didn’t exist OUT OF UNIVERSE or PREVIOUSLY
IN THE SHOW. This is what we call something “new”, as opposed to “oh look,
same thing again”.

IN UNIVERSE, they were always there but we, like the Doctor, were unaware
of them. Apart, of course, from all the little touches down the years of
the show that looked like inconsistencies at the time (like the ones I
previously detailed) but now fit with the expanded continuity.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk4bcn$b3b$2...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

But you managed to contradict yourself in your rage MM!

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <32644f11-65a2-4c97...@googlegroups.com>,

They would have known about the Timeless Child
if it existed.

[The Doctor]

In article <e5085441-9a6c-4f1b...@googlegroups.com>,

hacked?

[The Doctor]

In article <sk4qt9$qou$1...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

And the TC contradicts everything Doctor Who!

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Last Doctor]

Three points to note here:

1) There is no rage in my words, just scientific detachment. That you are
tone-deaf to rational disinterest is unsurprising, though.

2) I didn’t contradict myself: any such impression you have gained is
through lack of comprehension on your part - par for the course. Or you
could just be lying again - par for the course as well.

3) Don’t think I haven’t noticed you deflecting and avoiding the question -
another favourite tactic of yours when you’re lying or can’t support your
position. So, just to try to return the conversation to what its topic is
supposed to be:

For the third time of asking, what did Rassilon or Omega say on screen
about the origin of the power of regeneration in Gallifreyans? No

supporting quote = no contradiction.

If there really is a contradiction, surely you can find a quote that shows
the contradiction and share it with us. If you can’t, then just stop lying.
It’s quite simple.

[The Last Doctor]

The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <sk4qt9$qou$1...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> So the pre-Hartnell Doctors didn't EXIST until last year, then the
>>> timeline magically changed to create said Doctors? No wonder Yads is hacked!
>>
>> Seriously, Tim. Of course they didn’t exist OUT OF UNIVERSE or PREVIOUSLY
>> IN THE SHOW. This is what we call something “new”, as opposed to “oh look,
>> same thing again”.
>>
>> IN UNIVERSE, they were always there but we, like the Doctor, were unaware
>> of them. Apart, of course, from all the little touches down the years of
>> the show that looked like inconsistencies at the time (like the ones I
>> previously detailed) but now fit with the expanded continuity.
>>
>
> And the TC contradicts everything Doctor Who!

Liar. Since the Timeless Child is the central narrative of a Doctor Who
story, BY DEFINITION it can’t contradict EVERYTHING Doctor Who. And you
have been unable to specify ANY genuine contradictions so far.

[tsbru...@gmail.com]

Upset Hacked off.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk53p5$ui1$1...@dont-email.me>,

Your logic holds no water.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk53p6$ui1$2...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <sk4qt9$qou$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So the pre-Hartnell Doctors didn't EXIST until last year, then the
>>>> timeline magically changed to create said Doctors? No wonder Yads
>is hacked!
>>>
>>> Seriously, Tim. Of course they didn’t exist OUT OF UNIVERSE or PREVIOUSLY
>>> IN THE SHOW. This is what we call something “new”, as opposed to
>“oh look,
>>> same thing again”.
>>>
>>> IN UNIVERSE, they were always there but we, like the Doctor, were unaware
>>> of them. Apart, of course, from all the little touches down the years of
>>> the show that looked like inconsistencies at the time (like the ones I
>>> previously detailed) but now fit with the expanded continuity.
>>>
>>
>> And the TC contradicts everything Doctor Who!
>
>Liar. Since the Timeless Child is the central narrative of a Doctor Who
>story, BY DEFINITION it can’t contradict EVERYTHING Doctor Who. And you
>have been unable to specify ANY genuine contradictions so far.
>

You are deluded MM!

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <91578b7b-85c8-423e...@googlegroups.com>,

Then you are 100% correct!

[tsbru...@gmail.com]

Possible, but why should they tell the Doctor?

[The Doctor]

In article <9c358471-3b2b-4ede...@googlegroups.com>,

Hey! They are the ones to tell.

[The Last Doctor]

Who said this quote - Omega or Rassilon? In which episode? How is the
Timeless Child in conflict with it?

Oh wait - you didn’t answer the question. You just told a different lie in
a futile attempt to distract attention from the fact that you have no facts
to support your lies.

[The Last Doctor]

The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <sk53p6$ui1$2...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <sk4qt9$qou$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So the pre-Hartnell Doctors didn't EXIST until last year, then the
>>>>> timeline magically changed to create said Doctors? No wonder Yads
>> is hacked!
>>>>
>>>> Seriously, Tim. Of course they didn’t exist OUT OF UNIVERSE or PREVIOUSLY
>>>> IN THE SHOW. This is what we call something “new”, as opposed to
>> “oh look,
>>>> same thing again”.
>>>>
>>>> IN UNIVERSE, they were always there but we, like the Doctor, were unaware
>>>> of them. Apart, of course, from all the little touches down the years of
>>>> the show that looked like inconsistencies at the time (like the ones I
>>>> previously detailed) but now fit with the expanded continuity.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And the TC contradicts everything Doctor Who!
>>
>> Liar. Since the Timeless Child is the central narrative of a Doctor Who
>> story, BY DEFINITION it can’t contradict EVERYTHING Doctor Who. And you
>> have been unable to specify ANY genuine contradictions so far.
>>
>
> You are deluded MM!

You keep ignoring the conversation to post more lies. I wonder why.

[Daniel65]

The Doctor wrote on 13/10/21 8:09 am:

> In article <32644f11-65a2-4c97...@googlegroups.com>,
> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 1594 On Tuesday, October 12, 2021 at 7:31:18 AM UTC-7, netk...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> In article <sk3usq$i4d$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Daniel65 <dani...@eternal-september.org> wrote:
>>>> The Doctor wrote on 8/10/21 9:57 am:
>>>>> In article <sjn7k3$va2$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 07/10/2021 13:56, The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <sjm4ca$bt$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 06/10/2021 23:35, The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <sjkjaq$el6$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <Snip>
>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> There’s no such thing - there is logic, there is

>>>> deception, and there is
>>>>>>>>>> idiocy. I use logic, Aggie uses duplicity and insanity, and you
>>>> use idiocy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And MM uses deceit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "But then you lie". I do not deceive. In twenty years you have NEVER
>>>>>>>> caught me in a lie, though you repeatedly lie about this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have occasionally been in error, and when this is the case you
>>>>>>>> invariably find that I acknowledge this, and when necessary apologise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Go on - lie again. Or deflect. Anything other than following logic and
>>>>>>>> debating a reasoned point of view is fine by you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well you defend Chibnall the greatest DW revisionist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That, Dave, is what we call a deflection. You were caught out lying
>>>>>> about me, and your response, instead of a much-needed apology, is a
>>>>>> pointless non-sequitur.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't lie, and when I defend [some parts of] Chibnall's work it is in
>>>>>> a logical manner, not through any irrational love of it - as opposed to
>>>>>> your emotional, ilogical, and irrational hatred.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yes - and what he is doing is adding material. He's not changing
>>>>>> anything, only our understanding of it. YOU are the wannabe revisionist,
>>>>>> with your cries of "bogus" and "the Doctor is not himself", and desire
>>>>>> to deny, cancel and erase the most recent parts of the canon.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Timeless Child contradictis Doctor Who!
>>>>
>>>> And all of us here are, I'm sure, still waiting for YOU, idiot, to post
>>>> your evidence of any contradictions, idiot!!
>>>>

>>> How about the Rassilon Scene at T5D
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> Omega in T3D and Arc of Infinity?
>>
>> What about them?
>
> They would have known about the Timeless Child if it existed.
>

No, because (was it here or On Screen??) the Time Lords had had their
memories wiped to remove The Timeless Child from their memories. So
Rassilon and Omega would have had no memories of The Timeless Child either!!
--
Daniel

[The Doctor]

In article <sk5q2i$8b4$1...@dont-email.me>,

Or check with Tim.

Omega just found out about the Doctor in T5D.

Omga in T3D .

Neither noted an ancientness in the Doctor!

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk5q2j$8b4$2...@dont-email.me>,

What continuity. The Timeless child
makes for a huge Discontinuity Guide.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[tsbr...@gmail.com]

Wouldn't a few Time Lords have to know about the Timeless Child in order to be able to protect that secret?

[tsbr...@gmail.com]

I thought that he knew in T3D.
>
> Omga in T3D .

Who is Omga?

>
> Neither noted an ancientness in the Doctor!

They might not have recognized him in his new form.

And/or they were playing dumb to preserve the TC secret.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk6f64$9lj$1...@dont-email.me>,

And that a redundant paradox/contradiction .

[The Doctor]

In article <83d6d7e6-58bd-4e38...@googlegroups.com>,

Hence the contradiction.

[The Doctor]

In article <d4d675e5-b405-47f4...@googlegroups.com>,

Omega.

>>
>> Neither noted an ancientness in the Doctor!
>
>They might not have recognized him in his new form.
>
>And/or they were playing dumb to preserve the TC secret.

No and No!

[The Last Doctor]

That was me, sort of, but it's a logical extension of what was shown on
screen:

DOCTOR: I know my life. I know... I know who I am.
MASTER: No, you don't. You never have. Your life has been hidden from
you. Our founding parents wanted a noble creation myth for the Time
Lords. Born To Rule.
DOCTOR: I remember my home. I remember growing up. I remember you and me
at the Academy together.
MASTER: That happened. It just wasn't your first life.
...

SOLPADO (DIVISION LEADER) : The policy of the Time Lords is clear.
strict non-intervention in other worlds and times. However, policy and
reality sometimes diverge. There are times when it is necessary to
intervene. That is the purpose of The Division. The tests we set you.
These results are the best I've ever seen.
SOLPADO: The Division does not exist. The Division does not have
operatives. We are not even here. Do you understand? I propose...
(The scene vanishes.)

DOCTOR: What have you done?
MASTER: Not me. That was done long before I got here. Everything from
here is redacted, blocked out, all but erased. There was something here.
A lot of stuff, seemingly, but now it all just looks like this.


So the whole history of the Division is hidden in the Matrix, and we
know the Doctor was mind wiped. It seemed likely to me that the Division
would have hidden themselves deep within the hierarchies of the Time
Lords and that anyone not part of it - would not know about it. And if
they found out, their memories would be changed.

[The Last Doctor]

I can't check your lies with Tim, Dave. Tim questions everything (mostly
irrelevant side issues) but doesn't form strong theories of his own
about anything.

However, firstly, thank you for finally attempting to articulate your
perceived "contradictions" here. That allows us to examine them and
check whether they are real.

> Omega just found out about the Doctor in T5D.

If that wasn't what the Doctor was called during Omega's time on
Gallifrey, how would Omega know it was the same person? That Omega
doesn't know the name "Doctor" means nothing.

And the Doctor's conscious memories of his distant past have been erased
(according to the Timeless Child narrative), so he doesn't remember his
distant past and working with Omega (except momentarily, in Remembrance
of the Daleks).

> Omga in T3D .

You mean Rassilon. Same logic applies.

> Neither noted an ancientness in the Doctor!

"They didn't note an ancientness in the Doctor?" This is your
"contradiction"? Where, in any of Doctor Who, is there note of an innate
sense of "ancientness" in Time Lords? And even if they had one, why
would they scrutinise the Doctor in that way if they did not suspect him
of being ancient?

Omega was barely present any more - a literal shadow of his former self.
And the presence of Rassilon in the Death Zone was an intelligent echo,
an AI interface like the TARDIS has, not Rassilon herself, who was long
dead.

Sorry Dave, that just won't wash. You wanting to find a contradiction is
not the same as there actually being one. Try again.

[The Last Doctor]

I didn't mention continuity here. Stop deflecting. Your lie is simply
that an episode of Doctor Who contradicts all of Doctor Who. (Oh, and
the lie that I'm deluded, but that's less immediately provable - I'm
transparently not deluded about THIS). It's a self-evident falsehood:
it's like claiming the letter "A" is not part of the alphabet. You're
allowed to dislike The Timeless Children, and even all of the Chibnall
era, if you want to. But your likes and dislikes don't determine what is
part of Doctor Who - its presence on screen, under the series title
"Doctor Who", decides that.

[The Last Doctor]

Yes, Tim, unless and until the secrecy became so complete that the last
person who knew the truth died. But nothing says that any of those
people ever had to be Rassilon or Omega.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk6qbe$4vp$1...@dont-email.me>,

And if you believe that, the MAster is older than the Doctor.

>
>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk6ren$rgl$1...@dont-email.me>,

Your logical is illogical.

BTW it's Rassilon in T5D and Omega in T3D.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk6rpd$2kk$1...@dont-email.me>,

The Disconintuity Guide got bigger.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk6rsm$2kk$2...@dont-email.me>,

Of Course you cannot rule out the MAster
fixing the Data like they did in Trial of a TimeLord.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
>things. Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Last Doctor]

No he isn’t, what makes you leap to that bizarre conclusion?

[The Last Doctor]

Don’t post false assertions - if you can see a flaw in the logic, explain
it.

>
> BTW it's Rassilon in T5D and Omega in T3D.
>

Yes, I didn’t notice that your two instances where you mistakenly called
out Omega twice, were in reverse order.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk7mio$ep$1...@dont-email.me>,

Exactly! How can you trust the MAster?

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk7mio$ep$2...@dont-email.me>,

But did not note a Timeless Child.

>
>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[tsbr...@gmail.com]

Why would they have blown the whistle on the Timeless Child, even if they knew about it?

[The Doctor]

In article <87685667-6d6e-491e...@googlegroups.com>,

They would have know and given it away!

[tsbru...@gmail.com]

What would make them blurt out info about the Timeless Child?

[The Last Doctor]

The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <sk7mio$ep$1...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <sk6qbe$4vp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

>>>>
>>>> So the whole history of the Division is hidden in the Matrix, and we
>>>> know the Doctor was mind wiped. It seemed likely to me that the Division
>>>> would have hidden themselves deep within the hierarchies of the Time
>>>> Lords and that anyone not part of it - would not know about it. And if
>>>> they found out, their memories would be changed.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And if you believe that, the MAster is older than the Doctor.
>>
>> No he isn’t, what makes you leap to that bizarre conclusion?
>>
>
> Exactly! How can you trust the MAster?

I think you’re having a completely different conversation in your head from
the one in this thread Dave.

You said: If you believe [that almost all the Time Lords have knowledge of
the Timeless Child suppressed] the Master is older than the Doctor.

I said: No he isn’t, what makes you leap to that bizarre conclusion?

To which your reply is “Exactly”? Huh? That makes no logical sense.

[The Last Doctor]

The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <sk7mio$ep$2...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <sk6ren$rgl$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

[SNIP detailed in-universe rationalisation for why Omega in T3D and the
memory of Rassilon in T5D would not recognise one of their fellow
architects of Time Lord power in the Doctor, and may well not have been
aware of the Timeless Child].

>>>> Sorry Dave, that just won't wash. You wanting to find a contradiction is
>>>> not the same as there actually being one. Try again.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your logical is illogical.
>>
>> Don’t post false assertions - if you can see a flaw in the logic, explain
>> it.
>>

I see you can’t really find a flaw in the logic, you’re just falsely
conflating your dislike with a disproof.

>>>
>>> BTW it's Rassilon in T5D and Omega in T3D.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I didn’t notice that your two instances where you mistakenly called
>> out Omega twice, were in reverse order.
>>
>
> But did not note a Timeless Child.

Are you suggesting that Omega and Rassilon were officers of the Division?
Because as the theory goes, only the Division is allowed to retain
knowledge of the Division. They are the Illuminati, the Men in Black
(complete with the flashy thing). A rumour, a myth.

They didn’t need to know that. This isn’t the Timeless Child they weren’t
looking for.

[The Last Doctor]

Why would they know?

If they did know, why would they be aware the Doctor was the Child - if the
Doctor still had a “handler” from the Division, it couldn’t be a
millennia-dead President or a hundreds-of-millennia-believed-dead stellar
engineer, would it?

[tsbru...@gmail.com]

How does the Division obtain government funding without the government knowing what it is?

>
> They didn’t need to know that. This isn’t the Timeless Child they weren’t
> looking for.

Is Obi-Won Kenobi around?

[The Last Doctor]

It’s a post scarcity economy, Tim. We have no idea how one of those might
work. Perhaps they can take any resources they need and no one will mind
because there’s always more. They probably have unlimited rice pudding,
too.

>> They didn’t need to know that. This isn’t the Timeless Child they weren’t
>> looking for.
>
> Is Obi-Won Kenobi around?

No, but the Division’s Jedi mind tricks wouldn’t work on HIM. Probably.

[solar penguin]

The Last Doctor let loose with:

> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <sk7mio$ep$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> In article <sk6qbe$4vp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>
>>>>> So the whole history of the Division is hidden in the Matrix, and we
>>>>> know the Doctor was mind wiped. It seemed likely to me that the Division
>>>>> would have hidden themselves deep within the hierarchies of the Time
>>>>> Lords and that anyone not part of it - would not know about it. And if
>>>>> they found out, their memories would be changed.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And if you believe that, the MAster is older than the Doctor.
>>>
>>> No he isn’t, what makes you leap to that bizarre conclusion?
>>>
>>
>> Exactly! How can you trust the MAster?
>
> I think you’re having a completely different conversation in your head from
> the one in this thread Dave.
>
> You said: If you believe [that almost all the Time Lords have knowledge of
> the Timeless Child suppressed] the Master is older than the Doctor.

So the Master’s age depends on your beliefs? If you change
your mind, the Master will find himself getting younger
again? How does that work? If you change your mind about
other things, does it affect other Time Lords’ ages?

>
> I said: No he isn’t, what makes you leap to that bizarre conclusion?
>
> To which your reply is “Exactly”? Huh? That makes no logical sense.
>

Oh, I guess not then. Pity.

--
solar penguin

[solar penguin]

The Last Doctor let loose with:

> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <sk7mio$ep$2...@dont-email.me>,
>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> BTW it's Rassilon in T5D and Omega in T3D.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I didn’t notice that your two instances where
>>> you mistakenly called out Omega twice, were in reverse
>>> order.
>>>
>>
>> But did not note a Timeless Child.
>
> Are you suggesting that Omega and Rassilon were officers
> of the Division? Because as the theory goes, only the
> Division is allowed to retain knowledge of the Division.

> They are the Illuminati, the Men in Black(complete with

> the flashy thing). A rumour, a myth.
>

By a strange coincidence, the very first draft of the script
for An Unearthly Child had the TARDIS’s police box lantern
acting as a memory-wiping flashy thing. Could that have
been installed by the Division?

--
solar penguin

[The Doctor]

In article <569b32bd-5c21-44b5...@googlegroups.com>,

They would have know the Other quit quickly.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk8iqr$h8c$1...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <sk7mio$ep$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> In article <sk6qbe$4vp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>
>>>>> So the whole history of the Division is hidden in the Matrix, and we
>>>>> know the Doctor was mind wiped. It seemed likely to me that the Division
>>>>> would have hidden themselves deep within the hierarchies of the Time
>>>>> Lords and that anyone not part of it - would not know about it. And if
>>>>> they found out, their memories would be changed.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And if you believe that, the MAster is older than the Doctor.
>>>
>>> No he isn’t, what makes you leap to that bizarre conclusion?
>>>
>>
>> Exactly! How can you trust the MAster?
>
>I think you’re having a completely different conversation in your head from
>the one in this thread Dave.
>
>You said: If you believe [that almost all the Time Lords have knowledge of
>the Timeless Child suppressed] the Master is older than the Doctor.
>
>I said: No he isn’t, what makes you leap to that bizarre conclusion?
>
>To which your reply is “Exactly”? Huh? That makes no logical sense.
>

And now?

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk8iqt$h8c$2...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <sk7mio$ep$2...@dont-email.me>,
>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> In article <sk6ren$rgl$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>
>[SNIP detailed in-universe rationalisation for why Omega in T3D and the
>memory of Rassilon in T5D would not recognise one of their fellow
>architects of Time Lord power in the Doctor, and may well not have been
>aware of the Timeless Child].
>
>>>>> Sorry Dave, that just won't wash. You wanting to find a contradiction is
>>>>> not the same as there actually being one. Try again.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your logical is illogical.
>>>
>>> Don’t post false assertions - if you can see a flaw in the logic, explain
>>> it.
>>>
>
>I see you can’t really find a flaw in the logic, you’re just falsely
>conflating your dislike with a disproof.
>

Base on false premise.

>>>>
>>>> BTW it's Rassilon in T5D and Omega in T3D.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I didn’t notice that your two instances where you mistakenly called
>>> out Omega twice, were in reverse order.
>>>
>>
>> But did not note a Timeless Child.
>
>Are you suggesting that Omega and Rassilon were officers of the Division?
>Because as the theory goes, only the Division is allowed to retain
>knowledge of the Division. They are the Illuminati, the Men in Black
>(complete with the flashy thing). A rumour, a myth.
>

The Divion is made up by the Master!

>They didn’t need to know that. This isn’t the Timeless Child they weren’t
>looking for.
>

Your arguments hold no water.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk8iqu$h8c$3...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

>The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <87685667-6d6e-491e...@googlegroups.com>,
>> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 1766 On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 5:33:39 PM UTC-7,
>>> netk...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Why would they have blown the whistle on the Timeless Child, even if
>>> they knew about it?
>>
>> They would have know and given it away!
>
>Why would they know?
>
>If they did know, why would they be aware the Doctor was the Child - if the
>Doctor still had a “handler” from the Division, it couldn’t be a
>millennia-dead President or a hundreds-of-millennia-believed-dead stellar
>engineer, would it?
>

Then explain the reactions of Omega in T3D and Rassilon in T5D!!

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <4acc6b24-af8e-49e2...@googlegroups.com>,

Good question.

>>
>> They didn’t need to know that. This isn’t the Timeless Child they
>weren’t
>> looking for.
>
>Is Obi-Won Kenobi around?

Go spin Tim!

[The Doctor]

In article <sk8lqn$7sr$1...@dont-email.me>,

Hence why I doubt it never really existed.

>
>>> They didn’t need to know that. This isn’t the Timeless Child they
>weren’t
>>> looking for.
>>
>> Is Obi-Won Kenobi around?
>
>No, but the Division’s Jedi mind tricks wouldn’t work on HIM. Probably.
>

No.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk8o2t$hm2$1...@dont-email.me>,

solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
>The Last Doctor let loose with:
>
>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <sk7mio$ep$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>> In article <sk6qbe$4vp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the whole history of the Division is hidden in the Matrix, and we
>>>>>> know the Doctor was mind wiped. It seemed likely to me that the Division
>>>>>> would have hidden themselves deep within the hierarchies of the Time
>>>>>> Lords and that anyone not part of it - would not know about it. And if
>>>>>> they found out, their memories would be changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And if you believe that, the MAster is older than the Doctor.
>>>>
>>>> No he isn’t, what makes you leap to that bizarre conclusion?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Exactly! How can you trust the MAster?
>>
>> I think you’re having a completely different conversation in your head from
>> the one in this thread Dave.
>>
>> You said: If you believe [that almost all the Time Lords have knowledge of
>> the Timeless Child suppressed] the Master is older than the Doctor.
>
>So the Master’s age depends on your beliefs? If you change
>your mind, the Master will find himself getting younger
>again? How does that work? If you change your mind about
>other things, does it affect other Time Lords’ ages?
>

Exactly SP! The Timeless Child makes no sense!

>>
>> I said: No he isn’t, what makes you leap to that bizarre conclusion?
>>
>> To which your reply is “Exactly”? Huh? That makes no logical sense.
>>
>
>Oh, I guess not then. Pity.
>
>--
>solar penguin

[The Doctor]

In article <sk8okq$scj$1...@dont-email.me>,

No.

>--
>solar penguin

[Daniel65]

solar penguin wrote on 14/10/21 7:10 pm:

Was it one of the things that was broken in/on The TARDIS??
--
Daniel

[The Last Doctor]

The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <sk8iqt$h8c$2...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <sk7mio$ep$2...@dont-email.me>,
>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>> In article <sk6ren$rgl$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>
>> [SNIP detailed in-universe rationalisation for why Omega in T3D and the
>> memory of Rassilon in T5D would not recognise one of their fellow
>> architects of Time Lord power in the Doctor, and may well not have been
>> aware of the Timeless Child].
>>
>>>>>> Sorry Dave, that just won't wash. You wanting to find a contradiction is
>>>>>> not the same as there actually being one. Try again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your logical is illogical.
>>>>
>>>> Don’t post false assertions - if you can see a flaw in the logic, explain
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>
>> I see you can’t really find a flaw in the logic, you’re just falsely
>> conflating your dislike with a disproof.
>>
>
> Base on false premise.

What false premise? You haven’t said. Note that the point of this
conversation is to show how what we have seen on screen would not be
invalidated (contradicted) IF THE TIMELESS CHILD NARRATIVE IS TRUE, so by
definition that can’t be a false premise for this logic. You can’t debate
whether the Timeless Child contradicts earlier material otherwise, because
if it’s false, it automatically CAN’T contradict anything.

>>>>> BTW it's Rassilon in T5D and Omega in T3D.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I didn’t notice that your two instances where you mistakenly called
>>>> out Omega twice, were in reverse order.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But did not note a Timeless Child.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that Omega and Rassilon were officers of the Division?
>> Because as the theory goes, only the Division is allowed to retain
>> knowledge of the Division. They are the Illuminati, the Men in Black
>> (complete with the flashy thing). A rumour, a myth.
>>
>
> The Divion is made up by the Master!

No, the point of this conversation is to show how what we have seen on
screen would not be invalidated IF THE TIMELESS CHILD NARRATIVE IS TRUE.
You can’t use your mental hypothesis as a logical ground point to argue
against the logical possibility of the alternative. That’s not how rational
thinking works.

>
>> They didn’t need to know that. This isn’t the Timeless Child they weren’t
>> looking for.
>>
>
> Your arguments hold no water.

My arguments appear to be watertight, as evidenced by your total inability
to make even the slightest hole in them. Denial is not refutation.

[The Last Doctor]

It’s in perfect working order, Tim. But the Doctor has forgotten it exists
- and forgets again every time he examines that circuitry. It also flares
sporadically to life, to soothe away any nagging memories the Doctor
fleetingly recalls that he shouldn’t.

[The Last Doctor]

The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <sk8iqu$h8c$3...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <87685667-6d6e-491e...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 1766 On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 5:33:39 PM UTC-7,
>>>> netk...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Why would they have blown the whistle on the Timeless Child, even if
>>>> they knew about it?
>>>
>>> They would have know and given it away!
>>
>> Why would they know?
>>
>> If they did know, why would they be aware the Doctor was the Child - if the
>> Doctor still had a “handler” from the Division, it couldn’t be a
>> millennia-dead President or a hundreds-of-millennia-believed-dead stellar
>> engineer, would it?
>>
>
> Then explain the reactions of Omega in T3D and Rassilon in T5D!!

I already have.

If the Doctor was the Other when Omega knew him, Omega would have expected
the Other to have lived her 13 long and fruitful lives and be long gone by
the time of T3D. In any case, Omega has no reason to associate the Doctor
with the Other - the Doctor is just “a fellow Time Lord” to Omega. And
since the Doctor’s memories are suppressed, the Doctor does not know Omega
except as a legendary figure in Gallifrey’s past.

If the Doctor was the Other when Rassilon knew him, Rassilon would have
expected the Other to have lived the remainder of her 13 long and fruitful
lives and be long gone by the time of T5D. In any case, the memory of
Rassilon in the Death Zone has no reason to associate the Doctor with the
Other - the Doctor is just “four incarnations of a Time Lord” to it. And
since the Doctor’s memories are suppressed, the Doctor does not know
Rassilon except as a legendary figure in Gallifrey’s past.

Note here that EVEN IF Rassilon or Omega were in the distant past part of
the clandestine inner circle that knew of the Division and The Timeless
Child (and there’s no reason either would have to be, especially Omega),
they have no reason to just blurt out their secrets to someone they do not
know is anything other than a young whippersnapper of a modern Time Lord.

[The Last Doctor]

If you doubt that something never existed, then you believe it probably did
exist. Just sayin’.

>>
>>>> They didn’t need to know that. This isn’t the Timeless Child they
>> weren’t
>>>> looking for.
>>>
>>> Is Obi-Won Kenobi around?
>>
>> No, but the Division’s Jedi mind tricks wouldn’t work on HIM. Probably.
>>
>
> No.

How do you know? Have Jedi Knights been involved with the Time Lords
already?

[The Last Doctor]

The Division routinely breaks the Time Lords guidance on time and space
travel and interference. If they really need money, and money exists here,
they can simply accumulate private wealth in the past by exploiting their
knowledge of the present day: whether that is in the form of sending
lottery numbers back in time, or the results of any events on which
gambling (or private wavers) took place, or manipulating historic stock
markets - buying stocks at low prices just before they boom, and selling
them at peak prices just before they bust - or by going back and laying
claim to the best mineral deposits - doesn’t matter.

[The Last Doctor]

Argh! Mea culpa, Daniel! (But you have to admit, that was a very Tim-like
question! He’s obsessed with the workings of the TARDIS!)

[tsbru...@gmail.com]

I never knew about that feature either! Were there such lights all over Gallifrey to erase knowledge of Timeless Children?

[The Last Doctor]

We’re way past speculating and deep into fan fiction now Tim. See where SP
says this device was in the preliminary script for “An Unearthly Child?” It
never really made it into the show.

Or did it, and we’ve all forgotten when it was last used? /g

[solar penguin]

Daniel declared:

Yes, or at least Doctor Who thinks it’s not working properly.
That’s why he abducts Cliff and Lola instead of leaving
them with wiped memories.

Fun fact: that draft script also reveals Susan’s real alien
name. No, not Larn. She’s Princess Findooclare of the
house of Dooclare.

--
solar penguin

[tsbru...@gmail.com]

Wouldn't the light be programmed to not affect the operator?

[tsbru...@gmail.com]

If Omega & Rassilon knew the Doctor as the Other/Timeless Child, wouldn't they expect the Other/Timeless Child to be immortal?

[The Last Doctor]

Where did I say that they knew the Other to be the Timeless Child? Even if
they did, why would they assume some random Time Lord not called the Other
was the Timeless Child?

[The Last Doctor]

The Doctor isn’t the light’s operator. The light (or at least the
partitioned and firewalled fraction of the TARDIS’s mind that operates the
light) is the Doctor’s Minder.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk99fa$6is$3...@dont-email.me>,

Of Course The Timeless Child is just a MAster plant.

[The Doctor]

In article <sk9bpm$sm1$1...@dont-email.me>,

MM is verirrational.

>>
>>> They didn’t need to know that. This isn’t the Timeless Child they
>weren’t
>>> looking for.
>>>
>>
>> Your arguments hold no water.
>
>My arguments appear to be watertight, as evidenced by your total inability
>to make even the slightest hole in them. Denial is not refutation.
>

As your evidence sink to the bottom.

>--
>There are some corners of the universe
> which have bred the most terrible things.
>Things which act against everything we believe in.
>
>They must be /fought/.